Apparently sleepy Joe has woken up to the barrier to fighting the virus, it is all those prized intellectual property rights and he wants to abolish them. Big Pharma must be quaking, what next?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-06/joe-biden-supports-waiver-of-covid-19-vaccine-ip/100119704

This is socialism on the march, make no mistake, your precious freedom to make outrageous profits is at risk

And the question to ask is why would a pharmaceutical company spend all the resources and years on R&D to develop a medication that they would not have exclusive patent protection ?
A Tough Road: Cost To Develop One New Drug Is $2.6 Billion; Approval Rate for Drugs Entering Clinical Development is Less Than 12% – Policy & Medicine (policymed.com) (https://www.policymed.com/2014/12/a-tough-road-cost-to-develop-one-new-drug-is-26-billion-approval-rate-for-drugs-entering-clinical-de.html#:~:text=Developing%20a%20new%20prescriptio n%20medicine,the%20Journal%20of%20Health%20Economi cs.)

You call it 'outrageous profits' . I call it a fair return on investment . First you call it socialism on the march and then you use a phony socialist cliche .

Tom, dear boy, haven't you heard of sarcasm?

You call it 'outrageous profits' . I call it a fair return on investment

I call it putting millions of lives ahead of profits.

then go right ahead and make the investment in time and capital ....or let mwe guess .you think the taxpayer should foot the bill .

then go right ahead and make the investment in time and capital

It's a CRISIS. Or haven't you noticed?


or let mwe guess .you think the taxpayer should foot the bill .

Paying is secondary to the crisis. Hard to believe you would put money ahead of millions dying.

then go right ahead and make the investment in time and capital ....or let mwe guess .you think the taxpayer should foot the bill .

Taxpayers have already footed the bill. Always have....always will. I doubt Big Pharma looses much money in the long run. They never do.

It's a CRISIS. Or haven't you noticed?


Yes we have noticed and there is a difference between abolishing IP rights and directing companies to make technology available on favourable terms



Paying is secondary to the crisis. Hard to believe you would put money ahead of millions dying.

It isn't a matter of money, it is resources and goodwill. This is where the US can earn back much of its prestige since China is doing little to assuage the crisis it caused, but opportunism won't get the job done

Yes we have noticed and there is a difference between abolishing IP rights and directing companies to make technology available on favourable terms

What's the difference between protecting IP rights and millions of people dying for that?

What's the difference between protecting IP rights and millions of people dying for that? If you had been following the thread you would know that I'm not against making the drugs available, I just don't like to see creeping socialism effectively nationalising an industry

If you had been following the thread you would know that I'm not against making the drugs available, I just don't like to see creeping socialism effectively nationalising an industry

Yeah, I got that. Nobody is nationalizing any industry - that's a stretch. The IP rights are being subjected to the needs of millions. This is an emergency.

love the way crisis is used as a reason to surrender liberties and rights. Bill Gates the leading proponent of global vaccine initiatives opposes IP waivers . The better way to do it is through technology transfer partnerships and licensing agreements, AstraZeneca and the Serum Institute of India, which produced doses for COVAX have such a deal .

Serum Institute of India obtains emergency use authorisation in India for AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 vaccine (https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/serum-institute-of-india-obtains-emergency-use-authorisation-in-india-for-astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine.html)

All Quid will accomplish is handing over US technology to the Chinese on a silver platter . Hunter is happy.

love the way crisis is used as a reason to surrender liberties and rights.

What better reason?

Who defines crisis ? Took Quid a long time to admit he screwed up and created a crisis on the border ,maybe he still does not admit it . And then when does a crisis end ? We still live under crisis laws established after 9-11 that abuse liberties for the 'greater good ' . Claims of urgency continue long after the "crisis " passes.

Who defines crisis

Nearly 600,000 dead! I call that a crisis.

Big Pharma has been through this before, a few times and lost nothing. The details and procedures will be worked out like they always have been despite the public posturing, hollering, and handwringing.

the crisis is purely political, leaders must be seen to be doing something, so they create a war, a crisis, then they can be seen to act, but when they do act, they have their critics, their detractors, their opponents

the crisis is purely political, leaders must be seen to be doing something, so they create a war, a crisis, then they can be seen to act, but when they do act, they have their critics, their detractors, their opponents

600,000 dead is purely political?

"crisis" is over . There were 2 spikes in deaths ;in April of last year and January this year . The US responded to the "crisis" by using genius of those evil greedy Big Parma companies to create vaccines in record times . Mission accomplished .

"crisis" is over . There were 2 spikes in deaths ;in April of last year and January this year . The US responded to the "crisis" by using genius of those evil greedy Big Parma companies to create vaccines in record times . Mission accomplished .

Crisis is ongoing. To end all safeguards now would be a disaster. Herd immunity is the goal.

"crisis" is over . There were 2 spikes in deaths ;in April of last year and January this year . The US responded to the "crisis" by using genius of those evil greedy Big Parma companies to create vaccines in record times . Mission accomplished .It's amazing how some people resist good news. Could it be because the bad news is so wonderfully useful in a political sense?

Could it be because the bad news is so wonderfully useful in a political sense?

No, because the crisis is ongoing. To end all safeguards now would be a disaster. Herd immunity is the goal.

I thought you were talking about the crisis at the southern border at first. Too much to hope for, I guess.

I thought you were talking about the crisis at the southern border at first.

No, your comment referred to the vaccine.

I was being sarcastic. I knew it would be too much to hope for to see a liberal dem have any interest in securing our southern border.

securing our southern border.
There are a variety of ways to do that, you know. If only I were younger and livelier...

I was being sarcastic.

It was very straightforward without sarcasm.

Sure it was, to the sarcasm deaf here.

Sure it was, to the sarcasm deaf here.

Yes jl line up and defend the southern border, against that old traditional enemy, Mexico, Should have annexed it when you had the chance, then there would be less border to defend and "a big beautiful wall" would be sufficient. Remember the Alamo!

Sure it was, to the sarcasm deaf here.

Nothing sarcastic in the quote below:


I thought you were talking about the crisis at the southern border at first. Too much to hope for, I guess.

Need only to say it again. "to the sarcasm deaf here."

There was no crisis at the southern border...never was. Just talking points to legally discriminate against OTHER folks. Watch it when THEY holler MANIFEST DESTINY, IMMINENT DOMAIN, STATES RIGHTS, SOVEREIGNTY, AND HOMELAND SECURITY!

Somebody is about to be screwed big time

Somebody is about to be screwed big time

yes and I think it is you, someone has to pay for big plans, and that can only be achieved by taxation, not just taxation of the rich and corporations, but on every worker, otherwise debt at astronomical levels. Governments have drunk the koolaid and are buying votes with OPM, on the pay later plan, but this generation doesn't pay for it, future generations do, and with fewer workers, taxation must rise or no new aircraft carriers

someone has to pay for big plans, and that can only be achieved by taxation, not just taxation of the rich and corporations, but on every worker, otherwise debt at astronomical levels.You have hit the nail on the head.

You have hit the nail on the head.

Don't worry JL, they can always repudiate the national debt

someone has to pay for big plans, and that can only be achieved by taxation, not just taxation of the rich and corporations, but on every worker, otherwise debt at astronomical levels..... new aircraft carriers

Who do you expect to pay for big plans - like aircraft carriers? I hope this isn't news to you.

Who do you expect to pay for big plans - like aircraft carriers? I hope this isn't news to you.

I don't expect anyone to pay for aircraft carriers, they are so last century, as to big plans, only spend your income and stop borrowing for political purposes

I don't expect anyone to pay for aircraft carriers, they are so last century,

They still have a role to play in a world that continues to rely on the big stick of the American military.


as to big plans, only spend your income and stop borrowing for political purposes

Deficit spending is a tried and true method of financing. Individuals do it and so do nations. The question is when does it become counter-productive?

Look at it this way. John's interest payments on his debt exceed his income. He cannot adequately service his debt. He is forced into bankruptcy and loses everything.

On the other hand, US interest payments are a trifling fraction of US income.

There's more to it (lots more!) but that's the basic equation to begin with in relation to spending and borrowing.

U.S. debt is currently 15X greater than its national "income", speaking of annual tax revenues. By any standard that is an equation fit for disaster. On a personal level, it would be equivalent to a man with an annual income of 60K having debt of 900K. We are presently surviving due to interest rates held low by the same government that is 30 tril in debt, but that will not be the case forever, and when it changes, disaster will be at the front door.

Even worse, we have allowed our current crop of corrupt, dishonest pols to discover the political wonderland of being able to impress us with their charitable qualities by spending money that they didn't even have to tax us to raise. So we get the benefits without the pain, or at least we do for the present time. In the future? Not so much. It is beyond amazing to me how gullible the American electorate can be in voting for dems and repubs alike who have no integrity.

. It is beyond amazing to me how gullible the American electorate can be in voting for dems and repubs alike who have no integrity.

and yet you vote for them because you have no viable alternative, what a sham, what a shame

We had plenty of alternatives. It's hard to tell people to not vote for pols who promise the moon. You have to be prepared to exercise some sense to vote for responsible candidates. "Vote for me. I'll cut spending, balance the budget, and ensure a secure future for your children and grandchildren," is not a popular slogan these days. It would be like an Aussie pol saying, "Vote for me. I'll raise your taxes in order to increase defense spending so we won't have to be so dependent on the Americans." Anyone running on that slogan??? Hmmm?

As I've said before, I'd like to have the chance to vote for a pres candidate who promises to cut defense spending, retire a couple of carriers, and tell the rest of the world (including Australia) to get off their lazy arses and prepare to pay for their own national defense rather than always counting on us. We have a mere handful of true allies. The rest of our "allies" are perfectly happy to lean on us rather than leaning on themselves.

As I've said before, I'd like to have the chance to vote for a pres candidate who promises to cut defense spending, retire a couple of carriers, and tell the rest of the world (including Australia) to get off their lazy arses and prepare to pay for their own national defense rather than always counting on us. We have a mere handful of true allies. The rest of our "allies" are perfectly happy to lean on us rather than leaning on themselves.

For the record, us aussies are your true allies and have fought in every war at your side even though sometimes we had no direct national interest, so telling us to pay for our own defence is offensive, we have bought weapons from you and expended our capital on your behalf, but we have become a little sick of the one way flow and now seek to reestablish our own military industries to counter the threats we see. Personally I see no point in antagonising the Chinese by sailing warships in close proximity to their coast, this doesn't mean I condone the Chinese attitudes. Gunboat diplomacy should be left in the nineteenth century, so yes a few less carriers particularly since your newer ones arn't up to scratch.

You think us lazy because we spend 2% of GDP on defense, but we have no need of a standing army of one million, what would these troops do? They would not be posted to places where we have no national interest. The British are foolish to send a fleet 12,000 miles from home, showing the flag in places where they have no national interest. Do they think the Chinese will back down in Hong Kong because they have appeared on the horizon? They would be better served in the Atlantic and Mediterranean keeping tabs on the Russians

telling us to pay for our own defence is offensiveThat is a really weird idea.


You think us lazy because we spend 2% of GDP on defense, but we have no need of a standing army of one million, what would these troops do?That's fine with me. I don't really care what you do, but don't plan on calling on us when you need help.

That is a really weird idea.

That's fine with me. I don't really care what you do, but don't plan on calling on us when you need help.

That is a really weird idea. The ANZUS treaty is much more likely to be invoked after an attack on the US

U.S. debt is currently 15X greater than its national "income", speaking of annual tax revenues. By any standard that is an equation fit for disaster.

If the debt to revenue ratio was a disaster, the disaster would have happened long ago. Did you criticize Trump for reducing revenue in the face of such debt?


On a personal level, it would be equivalent to a man with an annual income of 60K having debt of 900K.

Your man is servicing the debt. Do the math.


We are presently surviving due to interest rates held low by the same government that is 30 tril in debt, but that will not be the case forever, and when it changes, disaster will be at the front door.

Not necessarily. Interest rates are one factor among many. Revenue is another as is budgeting. Reallocating spending into programs with a better return is still another. Increasing taxation is an obvious method, but nobody likes doing that. Selective tax increases - putting more of a tax burden on the wealthy to ensure they contribute a fair share - can help.


Even worse, we have allowed our current crop of corrupt, dishonest pols to discover the political wonderland of being able to impress us with their charitable qualities by spending money that they didn't even have to tax us to raise.

Taxation is the chief way revenue is raised.


It is beyond amazing to me how gullible the American electorate can be in voting for dems and repubs alike who have no integrity.

Economics is not the strong suit of the typical American. What is far more amazing to me is how 74 million Americans can vote for such an obviously incompetent con-man as Trump. And how so many continue to support him as he rants and raves about the election being stolen. Nothing ever like it in the history of this country.

The economy grew during his administration but, as any thinking person knows, he had little or nothing to do with that. Cutting taxes for the rich and not understanding such basics as tariffs slowed the growth, not accelerated it.

For the record, us aussies are your true allies and have fought in every war at your side even though sometimes we had no direct national interest, so telling us to pay for our own defence is offensive, we have bought weapons from you and expended our capital on your behalf,

On this issue, I agree 100% with you as do the great majority of Americans.

Did you criticize Trump for reducing revenue in the face of such debt?I did so many times and continue to do so.


Your man is servicing the debt. Do the math.I just did the math. We are surviving because the feds are keeping interest rates low. Just wait a little while longer.


What is far more amazing to me is how 74 million Americans can vote for such an obviously incompetent con-man as Trump.Even more amazing is how 80 mil could vote for a senile dimwit like Biden.

As for the Aussies, I've already said I don't much care what they do as long as their defense ideas don't include depending on us to come bail them out in case of trouble while they spend a paltry 2% of GDP on defense.

Even more amazing is how 80 mil could vote for a senile dimwit like Biden.

That senile dimwit has done more in 4 months than Trump did in 4 years.

He has??? Incredibly poor job growth in April. Spending money like there's no tomorrow. Many promises and few accomplishments. Crisis on the southern border. Trump had RECORD low unemployment his third year. So no, I'm not buying that absurd statement.

He has??? ....... Trump had RECORD low unemployment his third year. So no, I'm not buying that absurd statement.

Trump had nothing except a self-propelled economy that was recovering from the Republican Great Recession - a recovery that Obama set in motion even though the McConnell Republicans tried to stop him at every juncture.

McConnell, McCarthy ( a disgrace to honorable Irish names), Lindsey, Taylor-Greene with the neanderthal DNA, and the rest of the spineless Republicans.

Trump had nothing except a self-propelled economy that was recovering from the Republican Great Recession - a recovery that Obama set in motion even though the McConnell Republicans tried to stop him at every juncture.Yes. I'm sure that's what it was. (Note: Sarcasm meter pegged.)

Yes. I'm sure that's what it was. (Note: Sarcasm meter pegged.)

The truth is not affected by sarcasm. Noted is your lack of denial.

I deny it categorically. Obama had eight years and never had vibrant growth such as Trump had.

I deny it categorically. Obama had eight years and never had vibrant growth such as Trump had.

Trump's growth was the result of Obama's efforts. Trump did nothing to foster growth, although he did claim it at every opportunity.

Your memory is short. The Republicans did everything possible to stop Obama from initiating recovery in Congress. This was led by the traitor McConnell. That is why Obama was forced to issue executive orders.

You can't rewrite history like your Republicans are presently doing re the insurrection - led by McCarthy this time.

Trump's growth was the result of Obama's efforts. Trump did nothing to foster growth, although he did claim it at every opportunity.You keep saying that, but you have no evidence at all. Strictly liberal dem conjecture. It is absolutely true that Trump had RECORD LOW numbers for unemployment and saw significant improvements in personal income levels. Obama cannot come close to what Trump did, and there is your evidence.

You keep saying that, but you have no evidence at all. Strictly liberal dem conjecture. It is absolutely true that Trump had RECORD LOW numbers for unemployment and saw significant improvements in personal income levels. Obama cannot come close to what Trump did, and there is your evidence.

You are missing the point. Why am I not surprised?

Trump came AFTER Obama started the recovery. Get it? AFTER! You keep mentioning employment but nothing else in the recovery. Why is that? Because you do not, or will not, understand the process of the recovery. Only the fringe right maintains what you do about the recovery. Broaden your horizons.

For evidence, read whatever you can find on the recovery. Then come back and tell us what you found. Don't ask me to tell you what to read. That's your typical evasion. You're a big boy now, do your own research.

Trump came AFTER Obama started the recovery. Get it? AFTER! You keep mentioning employment but nothing else in the recovery. Why is that? Because you do not, or will not, understand the process of the recovery. Only the fringe right maintains what you do about the recovery. Broaden your horizons.

For evidence, read whatever you can find on the recovery. Then come back and tell us what you found. Don't ask me to tell you what to read. That's your typical evasion. You're a big boy now, do your own research.Many words and no substance.

1. Record low unemployment.
2. Significant growth in personal income.
3. Significant growth in GDP, much better than under Obama.
4. Significant growth in stock values, critical to anyone either retired or nearing retirement.

You're still experiencing TDS. I'm told it does improve with time.


You will never see the day when I will ask you what to read. I've never done so and never will. You are the LAST person I would ask.

1. Record low unemployment.
2. Significant growth in personal income.
3. Significant growth in GDP, much better than under Obama.
4. Significant growth in stock values, critical to anyone either retired or nearing retirement.

You still don't get it. These 4 points would have happened no matter who was president. Trump did nothing to help that. Where have you been the last 4 years?


You're still experiencing TDS. I'm told it does improve with time.

When in doubt, get nasty. You are developing a major case of ADS. I'm sure you know what that is.


You will never see the day when I will ask you what to read. I've never done so and never will. You are the LAST person I would ask.

Then you will never learn. Watch that blood pressure - your anger is showing again.

You still don't get it. These 4 points would have happened no matter who was president. Trump did nothing to help that. Where have you been the last 4 years?And again, it's pure conjecture on your part. Your TDS has not improved at all. Sad.

And again, it's pure conjecture on your part. Your TDS has not improved at all. Sad.

It's the considered opinion of every normal individual on the planet. What in God's name is wrong with you? Why the blind attraction to Trump?

Your ADS is getting worse by the minute.

You would vote for Satan if he lied about being anti-abortion. Deny THAT!

It's the considered opinion of every normal individual on the planet.A completely stupid, idiotic statement that cannot be supported in any way. And you ask what's wrong with me?


You would vote for Satan if he lied about being anti-abortion. Deny THAT!OK. It gets wearisome, but I'll deny another dumb statement of yours. I deny THAT!

As for the Aussies, I've already said I don't much care what they do as long as their defense ideas don't include depending on us to come bail them out in case of trouble while they spend a paltry 2% of GDP on defense.

Just because we are not dimwitted enough to cause an arms race doesn't mean we have to match your spending

I don't care what you do so long as you take care of yourself and don't look to us to do it.

A completely stupid, idiotic statement that cannot be supported in any way. And you ask what's wrong with me?

You have the prize for stupid and idiotic. Second place is nowhere in sight. You're a Trump supporter. 'Nuff said.

Try to control that ADS. It's getting the better of you.


I deny THAT!

Then explain why you support Trump. I used Satan in place of Trump because I know you Bible thumpers believe in that myth. A useful fiction to cast your personal blame elsewhere. Trump personifies the myth. Deny THAT!

Can you explain why Trump's core base is filled with white evangelicals? No, I didn't think so.

Then explain why you support Trump. I used Satan in place of Trump because I know you Bible thumpers believe in that myth. A useful fiction to cast your personal blame elsewhere. Trump personifies the myth. Deny THAT!Wow. You took your drama pills today, didn't you? Well, of course I deny it.

I make statements I can support. You don't. I'm OK with that.

Well, of course I deny it.
Regarding #1:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/unemployment-low-trump/

As is usual, your own site supported my contention in #1. "According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the country's unemployment rate dropped to 3.5% in fall 2019 — the lowest rate in about 50 years, since December 1969." They went on to say that it was not due to Trump. They, of course, have no way of knowing that. All that can be said is that it happened under his admin. You can be sure that if it had happened under the Obama admin, they would have fallen all over themselves giving him credit.

You should know by now that I don't make statements I don't feel pretty sure I can support.

You should know by now that I don't make statements I don't feel pretty sure I can support.
No, you cherrypick and then lie.

Oh stop whining. Show me where I've done it and we can discuss it, but your lie about Gen. 3 is disgusting. You should be completely ashamed of yourself.

I make statements I can support.

Then support this:

Can you explain why Trump's core base is filled with white evangelicals? No, I didn't think so.


According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, ........ They (Snopes fact check site) went on to say that it (low unemployment) was not due to Trump.

Let me repeat that -- They went on to say that it (low unemployment) was not due to Trump.

NOT-DUE-TO-TRUMP!!

I don't care what you do so long as you take care of yourself and don't look to us to do it.

We don't rely on you, your recent performances have been dismal, and have emboldened our mutual would be enemies

JL said: They, of course, have no way of knowing that. All that can be said is that it happened under his admin. You can be sure that if it had happened under the Obama admin, they would have fallen all over themselves giving him credit.
Wasn't that (the bolded sentence) the point? Then you added your own interpretation to it to confirm your own "truth".

We don't rely on you, your recent performances have been dismal, and have emboldened our mutual would be enemies

You are right about our recent performances. That was entirely due to the moron some of us morons elected to the White House. We will get over it and are doing so with the old man in the WH now running things.

However, the rest of the world will long remember that America once elected a proto-fascist as the most powerful man in the world. God knows what he would have done had he been elected for a second term.

We now know his administration colluded with the Russians. Thank God he is no longer immune from prosecution (if he ever was - no thanks to the criminal AG Barr).

Yeh, Yeh, you had a bad trip getting on the Trump bus, but any failures are your own and have nothing to do with any supposed outside influence. I doubt you will do any better with a geriatric running things, he can't put two words together

he can't put two words together
Actually, he does quite well! Hope I'm that coherent when I hit that age.

Actually, he does quite well! Hope I'm that coherent when I hit that age.

I'm more than that age and I am quite coherent, if my speech stumbled like his I would be very concerned

I'm more than that age and I am quite coherent,

That's one of the funniest things you've ever said here. For lack of coherence, you win the prize. You can barely put two words together and make sense.

You have a marked inability to coherently reply to a question or comment. Not blaming you for that, old age affects some people more than others.

Biden btw has had a speech impediment since childhood and has fought mightily to overcome it. It still arises from time to time and does not reflect his mental abilities. If you were really concerned about him, you would know that and not criticize him for something he should be congratulated for.

(Later edit: Correction: you do not win the prize for lack of coherence, someone else here is in first place.)

You should know by now that I don't make statements I don't feel pretty sure I can support.

Here's your chance: Can you explain why Trump's core base is filled with white evangelicals who, btw, were prominent at the Trump Insurrection?

Here's your chance: Can you explain why Trump's core base is filled with white evangelicals who, btw, were prominent at the Trump Insurrection?That's not my statement; it's your statement. It's up to you to support your own statements. I said I can support mine, not yours.

You have a marked inability to coherently reply to a question or comment. Not blaming you for that, old age affects some people more than others.
I'm going to disagree with you, Athos. I've known 'Clete since the late '90s (??) when we answered questions on one of the first Q&A sites -- and when that one died, moved to others. He always has a unique perspective, being on the other side of the world and living in the Southern Hemisphere. I may even still have the reports I did (in 4th grade) on emus and platypuses! We learned what an interesting and varied continent Australia and its inhabitants are.

Yeh, Yeh, you had a bad trip getting on the Trump bus, but any failures are your own and have nothing to do with any supposed outside influence. I doubt you will do any better with a geriatric running things, he can't put two words together

I think we will and the former and present leader are both geriatrics' and despite the advanced age the current guy will clean up the mess of the past old coot as we improve and be better for the mistakes we make. No shame in screwing up, and we can will have done better.

so tell me tal, how long is it since you did better? What an attitude, no shame in screwing up, with an attitude like that you can never succeed. It is just a race to the bottom

I would happily take Trump again, based on his results which were impressive, if he would learn to keep his big mouth shut and pledge to get to a balanced budget.

JL they all pledge to get a balanced budget, then they get a dose of reality, that horse has bolted and has joined the wild bush horses (borrowed from an Aussie poem). You see talk is cheap, that is why Trump did so much of it

JL they all pledge to get a balanced budget, then they get a dose of reality,Sadly true, both here and in your country. But I don't agree that reality is what we have now. Reality is what we'll have when borrowing/printing money are no longer options.

"On 23 July 2020, the Australian federal government announced a forecasted budget deficit of $85.8 billion for the 2019-20 year. A budget deficit of $184.5 billion is forecasted for 2020-2021. This would be the largest budget deficit since World War II."

Seems like talk is cheap on both sides of the globe. A little cheaper over here to be sure, but cheap nonetheless.

https://financeforyoungaustralians.com/what-is-a-budget-deficit-australias-economic-update-july-2020/#:~:text=%28Australia%E2%80%99s%20Economic%20Updat e%20July%202020%29%20On%2023%20July,the%20largest% 20budget%20deficit%20since%20World%20War%20II.

Be a long time before the USA can't borrow or print money and even longer before we get close to a balanced budget. Just reality. However growing and expanding the economy is doable and right around the corner.

Sadly true, both here and in your country. But I don't agree that reality is what we have now. Reality is what we'll have when borrowing/printing money are no longer options.

"On 23 July 2020, the Australian federal government announced a forecasted budget deficit of $85.8 billion for the 2019-20 year. A budget deficit of $184.5 billion is forecasted for 2020-2021. This would be the largest budget deficit since World War II."

Seems like talk is cheap on both sides of the globe. A little cheaper over here to be sure, but cheap nonetheless.

https://financeforyoungaustralians.com/what-is-a-budget-deficit-australias-economic-update-july-2020/#:~:text=%28Australia%E2%80%99s%20Economic%20Updat e%20July%202020%29%20On%2023%20July,the%20largest% 20budget%20deficit%20since%20World%20War%20II.

Yes the conservatives here have suffered a reversal of opinion, must be the aftereffect of covid recessional thinking, but the rhetoric of balancing the budget gets a little old after eight years and reaching the goal, which but for covid they did. You would make a great labor supporter, always critical

polispeak is everywhere, it is a human condition

Critical or truthful?

who on earth is more critical than you concerning the United States?

Critical or truthful?

who on earth is more critical than you concerning the United States?

I don't know the answer to that question, but somewhere in your soaring rhetoric is the answer. I am critical of your government, of your hypocrisy, of your superior to everyone else attitudes and above all, of the idea we owe you something. You are a wealthy country and therefore it is you who owe those who have little. Isn't this the Christian ideal you espouse? No, like everything else you say it is just talk

I don’t know who “you” is in that diatribe, but it’s not me.

as to charity, name the country that has engaged in more foreign aid and charitable giving than the United States. Who is even close?

I don’t know who “you” is in that diatribe, but it’s not me.

as to charity, name the country that has engaged in more foreign aid and charitable giving than the United States. Who is even close?

Well my own country is in its own small way, it doesn't give tied aid, it doesn't promise and fail to deliver, as to my 'diatribe" yes it is directed at you also because you defend those things I enumerated as the failings of your nation

Well my own country is in its own small way,Not even close. "Small way" pretty much sums it up.


as to my 'diatribe" yes it is directed at you also because you defend those things I enumerated as the failings of your nationThis is the heart of your diatribe.

1. "I am critical of your government, of your hypocrisy, of your superior to everyone else attitudes." I've never defended any of that.

2. "and above all, of the idea we owe you something." I think that is absolutely true.

3. "You are a wealthy country and therefore it is you who owe those who have little. Isn't this the Christian ideal you espouse?" No, it is not the "Christian ideal". The Christian ideal is that I, as an individual, should love my neighbor as I love myself. A Christian church should certainly exhibit love towards others. There is nothing in the NT about what a nation should do. You are simply wrong about that. It's your "criticize America at all costs" approach, which seems to border on hatred, exhibiting itself.

You see you are like the priest in the story of the Samaritan. Your ideals extend only to your own people. You know as well as I do that Christianity is about relationship, individual relationship with God, it has nothing to do with nations and empires, however those individuals make up nations and collectively should act as an individual should act, with compassion

You know as well as I do that Christianity is about relationship, individual relationship with God, it has nothing to do with nations and empires,Exactly correct.


however those individuals make up nations and collectively should act as an individual should act, with compassionWhich, I suppose, explains why the U.S. is FAR more generous in foreign aid AND in individual and group charitable giving than any other nation, and certainly including yours. Maybe you should follow your own advice in Australia before you start worrying about America.

Exactly correct.

Which, I suppose, explains why the U.S. is FAR more generous in foreign aid AND in individual and group charitable giving than any other nation, and certainly including yours. Maybe you should follow your own advice in Australia before you start worrying about America.


Tell me JL what is the treatment for an over stretched arm? you must have great discomfort you do so much stretching these days.

The evidence is in. talk is cheap, you announce much, deliver little and what you do deliver is tied aid, the money must buy goods from the US. Ask Haiti how much of your aid they got

My only worry about america is; will they live up to the rhetoric when the time comes

Haiti? We have given more than 5 billion. How much has Australia given?


My only worry about america is; will they live up to the rhetoric when the time comesNo problem. The mighty Aussies will show up.

Haiti is offshore to the US, how much of that aid actually arrived. Indonesia was offshore to Australia, we gave a billion dollars, untied, which comparatively is a lot of aid. So who is the more generous now


Much of the US aid funding was hindered by US statutory restrictions limiting spending to US products, materials and employees, which had to be transported to Haiti. This not only raised the costs involved, compared to local, but also prevented the aid from stimulating the Haitian economy.[53] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanitarian_response_to_the_2010_Haiti_earthquake #cite_note-53)

Most of that was economic investments from which you expect to receive a profit. Yes?

NO, It was not investment, unlike the US we do not speak with forked tongue

https://www.dfat.gov.au/news/news/Pages/indian-ocean-tsunami#:~:text=Australia%20provided%20%2425.8%20m illion%20in%20assistance%20including%3A%20%245,sup ply%3B%20%243.2%20million%20to%20WFP%20for%20food% 20aid



$1 billion reconstruction packageThe $1 billion package of assistance to Indonesia announced by the Australian Government on 5 January 2005 provided for large-scale social and economic development programs across Aceh and elsewhere in Indonesia.
Around $323 million was spent on the recovery and reconstruction in Aceh and Nias from 2004-2011. Approximately $328 million was allocated for road improvements in eastern Indonesia, and around $300 million was provided for basic education.
The Australian Government's support in Indonesia helped reconstruct schools, village halls and health facilities. It helped Indonesians rebuild livelihoods and helped many Acehnese to develop skills to improve government service delivery.

Haiti is offshore to the US, how much of that aid actually arrived.

After the Clintoon Foundation skimmed off their share ;who knows ?



My only worry about america is; will they live up to the rhetoric when the time comes

Now that Quid is president, I'm relieved that other countries respect America again. And it happened so quickly. Your question is not without merit . We have a vague security commitment with the Philippines that I do not believe is being honored . That is why China feels safe to seize the Philippine territorial waters with impunity .

Now that Quid is president, I'm relieved that other countries respect America again. And it happened so quickly.

We all are.

Sarcasm deafness strikes again.

<sarcasm> forgot to add the "<sarcasm> font "</sarcasm>

<sarcasm> forgot to add the "<sarcasm> font "</sarcasm>

So did I (irony) - on purpose.

Now that Quid is president, I'm relieved that other countries respect America again. And it happened so quickly.

Run that by me again, how can the invisible man help us to respect america?

Quid announced at G7 that the US will donate 500 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine to low income nations . This is a far better solution than the OP suggestion of the US breaking patent protection. Thanks to our capitalist system ;and it's patent protections ,we are in a position to make this distribution possible .

The problem is that the doses will go to WHO Covax. \COVAX was created to facilitate "equitable access to vaccines" , What it means is that the US will have little say on where the vaccines go and who gets them ;and the vaccines may not get to nations that need them the most ,or has the best ability to distribute the doses. As an example , South Sudan is planning to return 72,000 doses of vaccine to Covax because they can't distribute the doses fast enough to get them administered before expiration. Those doses given to India ,where they are ravaged by a new strain ,would be distributed swiftly . So yeah "equity " is part of the equation. But also distribution efficiency has to be a factor .

Quid announced at G7 that the US will donate 500 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine to low income nations I never cease to be amazed at decisions like this. One would think we had a budget surplus of billions of dollars rather than a deficit of trillions of dollars. It's obvious that the idea of figuring out how to pay for expenses vanished from D.C. years ago.

A day is coming.

Assuming that this is a worthy give away then yes the costs should be taken from other gimmees. There are many to choose from.

Well said.

Quid will just print some money as he makes his application for the peace Prize. What I don't understand is can america afford to let its own go unvaccinated while doses are given away?

It really doesn't matter who the doses go to as long as they are used before expiratory, I expect this is what is behind the "gift"

What I don't understand is can america afford to let its own go unvaccinated while doses are given away?

The problem with America's "own" is that too many refuse to get vaccinated. They think it's a plot to insert tracking devices into arms.

The problem with America's "own" is

'They think'

For themselves.

No they listen to nutcases, antivaxxers, anarchists

You live 10,000 miles away. You have no idea who they listen to.

Hey, I might live on an Island but we have a common ancestry, the story is the same everywhere because the story is the same everywhere. Where ever liberty exists you get these single issue nutcases who think that one bad experience translates into a plot. You have managed to export all of these stupid ideas to the world, it is your largest export. Every silly idea that manifests there turns up here, every silly idea that manifests here turns up there

Welcome To America, Leader of the Free World. Monkey see Monkey do.
You are correct in saying 'the story is the same everywhere.

We are Screwed! The world has run amuck. As long as people continue to believe the Big lie and deny the truth, doom and gloom will prevail. Same old discussion, same old responses, different day. You won't find any answers frequenting this site.
The writings on the Wall (hmmm, wonder where that saying came from), nothing new under the Sun...just hit replay.

Keep trusting your politician, they're straight shooters!

Welcome To America, Leader of the Free World. Monkey see Monkey do.
You are correct in saying 'the story is the same everywhere.

We are Screwed! The world has run amuck. As long as people continue to believe the Big lie and deny the truth, doom and gloom will prevail. Same old discussion, same old responses, different day. You won't find any answers frequenting this site.
The writings on the Wall (hmmm, wonder where that saying came from), nothing new under the Sun...just hit replay.

Writings on the wall, that originated in the Bible. The story is as old as time itself from the first cave painting to the street art. We should be getting smarter but it seems we are not

There is no American who does not have access to vaccines . Some choose to not vaccinate . I know of one person who was sick for years from another vaccine . So now that person would rather not risk getting another vaccine .

We will know in time if there are negative consequences taking this vaccine . In the meantime we have been told for years that the health of one's body is a personal choice.

I ask again ;if covid becomes an endemic issue like the flu . Will we insist on everyone getting vaccinated on a routine basis ? And if so then why aren't there the same concerns about the annual flu ? There is vaccines available every year ,and we don't insist on anyone getting them ;even for going to public schools . 2019-20 season 38 million got the flu in the US . 18 million visited doctors or health providers . 400,000 were hospitalized . 22,000 died .And this does not include others that don't get diagnosed .

Still don't see why it is anyone else's business if a person chooses not to get vaccinated. They would only be putting him/herself at risk. All the vaccinated people, or those who recovered from Covid, are safe aren't they? All the elderly in nursing homes have been vaccinated. In fact, anyone who wants to has been vaccinated, so why are we so concerned about any person who elects not to?

Politicians seize upon practically any issue to divert attention away from a federal budget that has become completely out of control and is producing deficit spending on a breath-taking level.

Jl that is crap and you know it a person who doesn't get vaccinated not only puts themselves at risk, they put their family at risk, their friends and associates but this is the sort of stupid crap we have come to expect from you, give me liberty or give me death, well death is closer than you think

and as Franklin said "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Jl that is crap and you know it a person who doesn't get vaccinated not only puts themselves at risk, they put their family at risk, their friends and associates but this is the sort of stupid crap we have come to expect from you, give me liberty or give me death, well death is closer than you thinkNope. They only put themselves at risk. The family members can get vaccinated. The friends can get vaccinated. The associates can get vaccinated. Anyone who wants to, as I have said, can get vaccinated. You simply don't know what you're talking about.

and as Franklin said "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Wearing a mask is about safety not freedom. The same as cops wearing a vest and fireman with helmets and oxygen tanks.


Nope. They only put themselves at risk. The family members can get vaccinated. The friends can get vaccinated. The associates can get vaccinated. Anyone who wants to, as I have said, can get vaccinated. You simply don't know what you're talking about.

Did that apply before the vaccine?

The same as cops wearing a vest and fireman with helmets and oxygen tanks. that would be mandated by the job requirement .

There is no American who does not have access to vaccines .
Up until recently, the homebound didn't. Finally county health departments and fire-department EMTs are going to homes to give shots. Unfortunately, only the one-shot vaccine is given.

Exactly. Don't want to wear a vest? Find another job. Job requirements are very common. Requiring people to take a vaccine that is unproven and could have negative side effects not yet discovered is a totally different story.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210524/cdc-post-covid-vaccine-heart-inflammation


Up until recently, the homebound didn't.So in that case, don't allow visitors who are not vaccinated. Makes perfectly good sense in that situation, but not in the general pop.

Quid's bold move @ G7 is as follows

Already discussed giving 500 million doses away to other nations

Bullying the world of lesser economies to tax American corporations at least 15% The world's richest economies readily agree since they all have higher corporate taxes already . Which world government will enforce this tax on Americans ?
Announced today they he will not appear in a joint presser with Putin after their summit . He knows he would get shown up .

So what is the compliant press reporting ? That Quid was smiling at the G7 group photo .

one more thing .... he announced a $ 40 trillion "build back better for the world " global infrastructure " plan

FACT SHEET: President Biden and G7 Leaders Launch Build Back Better World (B3W) Partnership | The White House (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/06/12/fact-sheet-president-biden-and-g7-leaders-launch-build-back-better-world-b3w-partnership/#:~:text=President%20Biden%20and%20G7%20partners,d eveloping%20world%2C%20which%20has%20been)

does the "big guy " get his 10% ?

he announced a $ 40 trillion "build back better for the world " global infrastructure " planWhoever owns Monopoly better start printing the money faster.

He thinks the 15% world wide global tax on American corporations will cover it . (consumer beware ) I've noticed how he couches Euro-socialist ideas into his radical leftist agenda . He is not a radical progressive socialist .He is just a globalist .

The math will jot even come close to adding up. It never does.

He thinks the 15% world wide global tax on American corporations will cover it . (consumer beware ) I've noticed how he couches Euro-socialist ideas into his radical leftist agenda . He is not a radical progressive socialist .He is just a globalist .

These corporations have been tax evaders for years and only a concerted effort can rein them in, so applaud the idea


one more thing .... he announced a $ 40 trillion "build back better for the world " global infrastructure " plan

FACT SHEET: President Biden and G7 Leaders Launch Build Back Better World (B3W) Partnership | The White House (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/06/12/fact-sheet-president-biden-and-g7-leaders-launch-build-back-better-world-b3w-partnership/#:~:text=President%20Biden%20and%20G7%20partners,d eveloping%20world%2C%20which%20has%20been)

does the "big guy " get his 10% ?

so this is the american belt and road plan, a plan to follow China, definite proof america no longer leads

Corporate tax rates should be $0 . All taxes paid are passed on to the consumer . The corporation just becomes the government collection agent . Quid and Yellen are full of sh+t . The US charges a 35% rate (or will charge that if Quid reverses Trump's cuts ) and wonders why US corporations set up shop in Ireland . This is just the G7 punishing nations that can't afford to drive businesses away . I ask again ;who is going to collect this world tax ?

A world tax. We should all be terrified. Either that or fighting mad.

The problem is one that no one wants to touch. Our fed government is on a spending spree which we, the American people, have allowed. In 2000 the budget was 1.8 tril. Our wonderful pres has now suggested we spend over 6 trillion. So in only a little over 20 years, we are to believe that we now need to spend over three times more than in 2000. And in 2000 we actually had a surplus of nearly 100 billion dollars.

We have lost our minds.

Corporate tax rates should be $0 . All taxes paid are passed on to the consumer . The corporation just becomes the government collection agent . Quid and Yellen are full of sh+t . The US charges a 35% rate (or will charge that if Quid reverses Trump's cuts ) and wonders why US corporations set up shop in Ireland . This is just the G7 punishing nations that can't afford to drive businesses away . I ask again ;who is going to collect this world tax ?

I hear the sheep bleating, they are about to be sheared, and who are bleating the most, those with the thickest coats but why should an individual care what these monopolistic, multinationals are taxed, they are just tax evaders and their time has come

A corporation is not a personally owned business. Corporations are owned by shareholders (usually MANY) who receive the profits and can then be taxed on those. And as Tom said, they only receive money by selling something. Tax the corporation and prices automatically go up. The money has to come from somewhere.

yes if you want to tax corporations the better plan would be to tax cap gains as regular income . There is where the real tax evasion is happening legally .

The problem is one that no one wants to touch. Our fed government is on a spending spree which we, the American people, have allowed. In 2000 the budget was 1.8 tril. Our wonderful pres has now suggested we spend over 6 trillion. So in only a little over 20 years, we are to believe that we now need to spend over three times more than in 2000. And in 2000 we actually had a surplus of nearly 100 billion dollars.


And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,(Kipling 'The Gods of the CopybookHeadings')

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,(Kipling 'The Gods of the CopybookHeadings')

No George Bush available to declare mission accomplished, The Biden infrastructure initiative, let's call it the BII is another way of getting the third world indebted to pay for US workers to Build US infrastructure in their countries

Several myths are contained in the above posts.

Myth # 1. "All taxes are passed on to consumers".

There is an ongoing debate among economists over the incidence of the corporate income tax. TPC assumes that 80 percent of the burden falls on capital and shareholders, while labor bears about 20 percent. This view is roughly shared by the Congressional Budget Office and the Congressional Joint Committee on Taxation.

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/corporate-taxes-are-they-fair-who-really-pays-them-and-when

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tax-tricks---do-corporati_b_541709

https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~ref/econ101e.html
(https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~ref/econ101e.html)

Myth # 2. "Non vaccinated people only put themselves at risk".

Hard to believe such a statement could be made after a year of constant info re the Covid-19 pandemic. The risk from non-vaccinated people threatens any other non-vaccinated individuals whether family, friends, or strangers. Pandemic 101.


Myth # 3. "A corporation is not a personally owned business".

A corporation is a limited liability form of organization. It can be owned by one person, few persons, or many persons. They may or may not receive taxable profits. Corporations often do not declare dividends (profits).

Let's discuss another myth corporate tax rates should be zero, now if corporations were required to distribute all profits as income to individuals this might be feasible but corporations do not

There is no American who does not have access to vaccines What about Otis?
If they don't allow Otis (my American Bulldog) the vaccine, then I don't want any part of it!...same with Snubs, my pet pigeon.



They think it's a plot to insert tracking devices into arms. Wonder why anybody would think that (https://vinepair.com/articles/government-prohibition-poison-alcohol/)?

WAIT! You think they'd insert Snubs? Ain't nobody gonna vaccinate Snubs!!!

Let's discuss another myth corporate tax rates should be zero, now if corporations were required to distribute all profits as income to individuals this might be feasible but corporations do not

It's worth discussing.

If corporations were required to distribute all profits to individuals, the distributed profits can come in the form of dividends to shareholders or in the form of reduced prices for consumers. Reducing consumer prices would result in higher income for consumers and a corresponding increase in taxable income. Does this compensate for the loss of corporate tax revenue? Perhaps distributing the price reduction over a far wider base than captured via corporate pre-price-reduction prices would generate far less tax revenue. E.g., $100,000 taxable income of a single entity at its marginal rate produces far more tax revenue than the same $100,000 distributed over 10,000 consumers.

No taxes for corporations would also stop the creative ways corporations have of evading taxes, thereby putting a lot of lawyers out of work. The reduced income for lawyers would reduce the tax revenue from the lower income. But tax revenue from consumers, not being as clever as corporations in evading taxes, would show an increase in tax revenue.

The effect on competition might drive prices down as tax planning would no longer be necessary, eliminating another expense. But a new expense must be approved - the expense of current and/or future expansion, and research and development to stay competitive while eliminating the need for depreciation.

Your thoughts?

A significant amount of corporate taxes fall on the consumers through prices . Governments that want out of control spending will make the argument that taxing corporations is a painless way to fund the pork . Nothing could be further from the truth .


This paper provides evidence that corporate taxes impact retail product prices, and that a significantportion of corporate tax incidence falls on consumers.

The fact that corporate taxes affect product prices, as well as payouts to shareholders andwages, has important implications for tax policy. In particular, models used by policymakerslike the CBO and US Treasury may underestimate the incidence of corporate taxes on consumers

If corporate taxes are partially incident on consumers, ratherthan primarily being borne by shareholders and workers, There remain several fruitful avenues for further exploration. First, our analysis necessarilthese taxes may be much less progressive than is commonly asserted. This is especially true since we find that lower priced goods and goods purchased by low income households are the ones most sensitive to changes in corporate taxes.

w27058.pdf (nber.org) (https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w27058/w27058.pdf)


Using granular gas price data and rich variation in corporate tax rates, we find that corporate taxes increase consumer prices, especially when consumer demand is less elastic and markets are less competitive. The tax incidence on consumers is also stronger when tax avoidance opportunities and other tax shields are limited. We additionally show that shifting taxes to consumers reduces the impact of taxes on organizational form choice and growth. Our results suggest that firms reduce their tax burden by shifting taxes to stakeholders, which is rooted in firms’ market power and the unavailability of other strategies reducing the tax burden

Using census data on the gas prices of nearly all German gas stations and local variations in business tax rates in 4,507 municipalities, we show that higher local business taxes increase consumer prices. Hence, part of the corporate tax incidence appears to fall on consumers. We further show that the effect of business taxes on gas prices increases when gas stations have greater market power and when tax avoidance opportunities or other tax shields are limited. Finally, the results of our supplemental tests further suggest that shifting taxes to consumers reduces the impact of taxes on organizational form choice and growth and could result in greater pre-tax profitability

delivery.php (ssrn.com) (https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=7810060131270730850850741051270921 09058027047084089074075023087109111109010081066076 10002701812611912600509710802200610307607010601702 80010340840111240720070800221100840020300821221100 09113002073084088119072025099069102087099127003117 121075124105018074&EXT=pdf&INDEX=TRUE)

Hard to believe such a statement could be made after a year of constant info re the Covid-19 pandemic. The risk from non-vaccinated people threatens any other non-vaccinated individuals whether family, friends, or strangers. Pandemic 101.That's kind of the whole point. If you don't want risk from Covid, then get vaccinated. If another person chooses to forego vaccination, then that is his or her personal choice. It does not put the vaccinated person at risk at all. It only generates risk for those who choose not to be vaccinated, which is exactly what I said to begin with. Choosing not to be vaccinated only puts yourself and others who choose to be non-vaccinated at risk in an area with widespread access to the vaccine. Pandemic 101 for those who think.


A corporation is a limited liability form of organization. It can be owned by one person, few persons, or many persons.That's only partially true. An S corporation can be owned by one person. It's done, as I understand it, largely to limit liability and save money on social security taxes, but they operate under different tax regs than other corporations and are treated, again as I understand it, as a private business for the purposes of taxation. But the great majority of large corporations are owned by many, many people.

Saying corporations do not pass out all profits to the corporate owners is a strange comment. Then what is done with it? You might say that some of it is reinvested into the corporation in the form of purchasing new equipment or building a new plant. If so, then in what sense was that money a profit? Wouldn't those be considered legitimate business expenses?

The G7 dipped their toes into the China problem.

about China's aggression against it's neighbors , they wrote of “the situation in the East and South China Seas,” without specifying that the "situation " was take over of other nations territory and turning the atolls into military bases to further enforce their premise that the whole South and East China seas are Chinese lakes . They talked of Hong Kong and Taiwan as “human rights and fundamental freedoms,” and “the importance of peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait” instead of saying that China is in violation of treaty in it's suppression of Hong Kong liberties and that they repeatedly threaten to invade Taiwan.
About the growing evidence of covid's origins in the Wuhan research lab they write
“We also call for a timely, transparent, expert-led, and science-based WHO-convened Phase 2 COVID-19 Origins study including, as recommended by the experts’ report, in China,”

So they want WHO ;the organization that carried the water for the Chinese false narrative about covid to take the lead in another cover up investigation. Some of the same investigators have clear conflicts of interest because they were involved in funding the Wuhan lab.

The best way to reform an institution/organization/group is to be a part of it. Go Joe Go!!

so You want to reform China by being part of it, good luck with that, you want to reform Antifa by being part of it? you want to reform BLM by being part of it? perhaps you want to reform the Taliban by being part of it, Sometimes you make ridiculous statements

so You want to reform China by being part of it, good luck with that,Well said.

so You want to reform China by being part of it, good luck with that, you want to reform Antifa by being part of it? you want to reform BLM by being part of it? perhaps you want to reform the Taliban by being part of it, Sometimes you make ridiculous statements

My reference was to the WHO an institution but it does extend to even the groups you mention as an effort to engage and form a basis of co operation like you do with China and us through trade agreements. So not so ridiculous in that aspect. Because that hasn't been done in many cases doesn't mean you rule it out all together, forever.

and how could you being part of the WHO improve it? do you have superior medical knowledge? Trump took the US out of the WHO because of its alignment with China, before then you were part of it and it didn't change anything

The dufus playing drama queen didn't help the cover up(?) either Clete. Nor his own cover up of the real scale and scope of the virus, or any of his antics. Nothing to do with the WHO repeating the party line which was the only line at the time.

He should have stayed and pressed for the truth instead of being an incompetent petulant big mouth beetch.

He should have stayed and pressed for the truth instead of being an incompetent petulant big mouth beetch.

Yahda, yahda, yahda, shouldda, wouldda, couldda, Is Trump the only person who could have taken action over there? without him everything is frozen? well I think your demonrat obstruction in Congress might have a case to answer too

The best way to reform an institution/organization/group is to be a part of it. Go Joe Go!!
True, there's a new Dufus in town. I trust he will make a lasting impression, much the same as our previous prez.

got it in one the role of dufus has been pick up by another, see tal, not everyone thinks there is only one dufus at the top there

Quid made a bold move . He used an oversized cue card at a Michigan shop to answer a simple question about the recent ransomware attack . He is dangerously feeble and unfit to be the President .

Joe Biden struggles & forced to refer to notes when asked about alleged Russian cyber hack - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixRu_GHNNqQ)

This is not the 1st time he has done this . He has been seen using cheat sheets at press conferences and at the meeting with Putin.

So he isn't on top of everything, good reason why he should remain in the background

Quid made a bold move . He used an oversized cue card at a Michigan shop to answer a simple question about the recent ransomware attack . He is dangerously feeble and unfit to be the President .

Joe Biden struggles & forced to refer to notes when asked about alleged Russian cyber hack - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixRu_GHNNqQ)

This is not the 1st time he has done this . He has been seen using cheat sheets at press conferences and at the meeting with Putin.

So what? After 4 years of the lying cheating blithering idiot old Joe is a welcome change. He doesn't have to be perfect, like the dufus claimed to be.

Quid made a bold move . He used an oversized cue card at a Michigan shop to answer a simple question about the recent ransomware attack . He is dangerously feeble and unfit to be the President .
I, along with most of the world's population, have no clue what ransomware is. But ask Joe and me about who was on Saturday morning cowboy shows or to rattle off a nursery rhyme, no problemo!

But ask Joe and me about who was on Saturday morning cowboy shows or to rattle off a nursery rhyme, no problemo!Might be true of you, but I'm not sure that Joseph Robinette Biden would remember. Maybe if he had it on notecards somewhere?

Quid has a tough time answering questions about the pie he wanted at the shop .

As President he should have a basic understanding of a national security threat . He doesn't have to know how ransomware works .He should be able to answer the question about Russian complicity without referencing notes . He should be able to say he has been briefed without checking his notes . He should be able to say he has ordered an investigation without looking at those notes .

At the slightest pretext Trump was pressured into taking the Montreal Cognitive Assessment At very least ,Quid should be urged to undergo the same .

Might be true of you, but I'm not sure that Joseph Robinette Biden would remember. Maybe if he had it on notecards somewhere?
How could we forget Hoppy and Scout and Buttermilk???

So he isn't on top of everything, good reason why he should remain in the background Nobody wants Kam the Sham running the country . So she was put on the ticket by Quid for job security .

Nobody wants Kam the Sham running the country . So she was put on the ticket by Quid for job security .
If tRump taught her (or if she learned from videos of him) the fine art of bluster, braggadocio, and disinformation, she could quickly win Republican hearts and minds!

Fat chance

Fat chance
Ooooooo, but we women can be full of guile ;-) and accomplish amazing things!

Yes you manage to get out of bed each day and look in the mirror

Yes you manage to get out of bed each day and look in the mirror
Unfortunately, I can't even do that anymore.

A question on "Jeopardy" yesterday was about platypuses. I immediately thought of all those unique animals in Australia.

Unfortunately, I can't even do that anymore.

A question on "Jeopardy" yesterday was about platypuses. I immediately thought of all those unique animals in Australia.

Sorry to hear that, yes, we do have some unique animals here, however being a child of God I am not one of them, I am unique for a different reason.

By the way they are Platypii��

Sorry to hear that, yes, we do have some unique animals here, however being a child of God I am not one of them, I am unique for a different reason.

By the way they are Platypii😊
I was going to type platypii (two i's?), but then I'd get hungry for a slice of my husband's birthday banana cream pie.

And yes, you are a unique child of God, 'Clete. I've known that for years.

Love you too WG

Unfortunately, I can't even do that anymore.Very sorry to hear that, WG. Age can be remorseless. I know it is with me.

Love you too WG
Do we go back as far as askme dot com? Certainly AnswerWay! Oh, the fun we've had. Remember IQGuru and ScottGem and arcura and Hank1?...and so many others. I even visited AW recently and revived old memories. (Yep, it's still online and my password still works!)


Very sorry to hear that, WG. Age can be remorseless. I know it is with me.
Not to sit and fret. My brain works real well, am still in Mensa, and I message and email with cyberfriends all over the world. I just wish I could clean house!

This is how we know the January 6 riot was a serious "insurrection " . One of the alleged rioters /insurrectionists had a fully assembled model of the Capitol building ...... made out of Legos

The FBI seized a LEGO set of the US Capitol building from a January 6 riot suspect (yahoo.com) (https://news.yahoo.com/fbi-seized-lego-set-us-210451850.html)

The fact that anyone can buy a Lego model of the Capitol is of no consequences . The FBI seized it and it will be used as exhibit A .

psst for wannabee insurrectionists . You can even find step by step instructions on how to assemble one .
LEGO 21030 United States Capitol Building Instructions, Architecture (brickinstructions.com) (https://lego.brickinstructions.com/en/lego_instructions/set/21030/United_States_Capitol_Building)

all this proves is the guy was a nerd