So the physical construction like the Keystone xl pipeline that was providing jobs can be cancelled .Real ‘infrastructure’ projects involve improving and repairing the nation’s dilapidated roads, bridges and other transportation infrastructure, projects in which real people who work at real jobs to make a real living participate. Such people are no longer a significant constituency of the Democrat Party, Hell ,they don't even try to pretend that their agenda creates "shovel ready jobs."

Every other Dem wish list is now labeled "Human Infrastructure".

The proxies who run the country for Quid submitted an infrastructure plan that has far less than 25% of what would traditionally be called infrastructure spending . Most of the remainder of the bill is simply massive payoffs to Democrat Party funders

Hello Tom. America has grown and diversified since the good old 50's. I told you to keep up.

And the “plan” to pay for it won’t even provide half of what is needed.

Tom says it's too much, and Jl says it's not enough.

Seems we heard about this before, over and over again. Shovel ready projects, filling pot holes, maintaining bridges when shovel ready jobs like building a wall go begging

A capitalists who doesn't believe in investment, and fringer who just can't count. What a pair!

Tom says it's too much, and Jl says it's not enough.I would vote against the entire bill if I could. It was the tax revenue that I said was "not enough".

Seems we heard about this before, over and over again. Shovel ready projects, filling pot holes, maintaining bridges when shovel ready jobs like building a wall go begging

A wall helps nothing.

It's employment, it keeps out undesirables, think before you speak

yeah I know . In 2021 American Jobs Plan means anything but jobs ;and it certainly isn't infrastructure . It is a All Out Crazy Green New Deal wish list .($10 billion to create a civilian climate corps )

It is more about tax increases than jobs or infrastructure .......(defined as the basic systems and services that are necessary for a country or an organization to run smoothly, for example buildings, transport and water and power supplies.”) infrastructure noun - Definition, pictures, pronunciation and usage notes |

Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com (https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/infrastructure?q=infrastructure)

Yeah I know . The dictionary is so 1950s .

It's employment, it keeps out undesirables, think before you speak

Not enough jobs to keep the boats floating and will never stop enough undesirables and their drugs to be meaningful. Think before you speak.

yeah I know . In 2021 American Jobs Plan means anything but jobs ;and it certainly isn't infrastructure . It is a All Out Crazy Green New Deal wish list .($10 billion to create a civilian climate corps )

It is more about tax increases than jobs or infrastructure .......(defined as the basic systems and services that are necessary for a country or an organization to run smoothly, for example buildings, transport and water and power supplies.”) infrastructure noun - Definition, pictures, pronunciation and usage notes |

Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com (https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/infrastructure?q=infrastructure)

Yeah I know . The dictionary is so 1950s .

Er shouldn't we be talking economics not semantics?

https://www.bing.com/images/blob?bcid=SHHDBwRYep8CHQ

yeah I know .

It is more about tax increases than jobs or infrastructure .......(defined as the basic systems and services that are necessary for a country or an organization to run smoothly, for example buildings, transport and water and power supplies.”)
.

Tom forgive me If I'm wrong but in a capitalist society arn't those things provided by the private sector




https://www.bing.com/images/blob?bcid=SHHDBwRYep8CHQ

You mean you finally got a perspective

in a capitalist society arn't those things provided by the private sectorHighways, bridges, school, and other such legitimate government undertakings are funded with taxes. You must listen more carefully, Grasshopper.

we weren't speaking about such things


or example buildings, transport and water and power supplies.”)

you really must pay attention, but then I can't expect that from a senior citizen can I? I'll just put it down to a senior moment

Tom forgive me If I'm wrong but in a capitalist society arn't those things provided by the private sector

We are a constitutional republic . REAL infrastructure is a legitimate government investment . To understand why you have to know the meaning and intent of Art 1 Sec 8 the Postal Road clause . Congress has the power "to establish . . . post Roads.”

A post road in the 1800s was an intercity highway punctuated with “posts” or “stages” with stables, inns for eating and sleeping, even newspaper offices. Today we call a post road an “interstate highway.” To establish a road meant to do everything necessary for the construction and maintenance of that road—laying out, construction building bridges, building canals etc.

Now in the 21st century can it be argued that broad band internet is part of the infrastructure ? Maybe . But the Dems expand the meaning beyond all rationale . They basically say all their socialist welfare wish list is "human infrastructure " .

It is nonsense that even they can't adequately define . It is in the eye of the beholder what is "human infrastructure" Like Humpty Dumpty they make words mean whatever they want them to mean.

we weren't speaking about such thingsUhm...actually, you were. "It is more about tax increases than jobs or infrastructure." Always been this forgetful???

Now in the 21st century can it be argued that broad band internet is part of the infrastructure ? Maybe . But the Dems expand the meaning beyond all rationale . They basically say all their socialist welfare wish list is "human infrastructure " .

It is nonsense that even they can't adequately define . It is in the eye of the beholder what is "human infrastructure" Like Humpty Dumpty they make words mean whatever they want them to mean.

Nice spin but doesn't address the countries needs at all, which you choose to badmouth as socialism. Like Obama Care you can always have a counter offer and maybe the American people will like it better...maybe not.

You're a capitalist, so crunch the numbers unless like your conservative buddy, you only count what you can hoard yourself, and hate government and taxes which you both have written about.

Like Obama Care you can always have a counter offer and maybe the American people will like it better...maybe not. counter offer . Just say no . Don't do it Your counteroffer is how the Fabians operate ..creeping socialism at a slower pace .
The lust for spending doesn't end with the Dems
Insatiable !
$1.9 trillion for so called Covid relief
$2.25 trillion for infrastructure
$1.5 trillion for the annual budget
And that is not even 3 months in office
This adding to an already $28 trillion national debt (more than the total GDP of $21.4 trillion ) ...... and they haven't even scratched the surface of the Dem real wish list .... free medical care ....free college ....panem et circensus for the plebians of the empire ...... while we open the borders to all the Goths ,Visigoths and Vandals .

counter offer . Just say no . Don't do itExactly. Don't spend money you don't have for stuff you don't need. Not really complicated.

You have the just say NO part down pat! We disagree about the need part, especially when you consider the return on investment within a decade and job-creation aspect that you no counting old Coots ignore!

if there was such a return on investment then private investment would cover it .

Exactly. Using the term "investment" for government spending is on the same level as referring to tax revenues as "gifts". It's simply ridiculous. It's what politicians have been doing since Obama to justify their stupid spending plans.

if there was such a return on investment then private investment would cover it .

I don't hear the rich guys squawking about raising their taxes to defray costs even the ones that pay no taxes...just politicians...publicly at least.

I don't hear the rich guys squawking about raising their taxes to defray costs even the ones that pay no taxes...just politicians...publicly at least.

Tal why squawk when you pay little tax, better to just lobby for more offsets, meanwhile the ones who will pay the tax are the wage plugs, the middle class and the stupid. If private investment were the bee all and end all, government largesse would be unnecessary but government, aka the administration, needs to be seen to be doing something

They don' t squawk . They vote with their actions . Well almost never squawk . Lately they found it judicious to do the woke squawk . My comment stands . If the government has to prop up a sector of the economy with public money then that sector probably should not exist in the market .... the exception being defense related . The worse public expenditure is to prop up rent seekers who's existence is due to the government trying to command create a market .

The liberal dems want to insist that an "infrastructure" bill is absolutely necessary, and then put forward an "infrastructure" bill that is largely NOT about infrastructure. Taxes will be raised sufficient to cover about half the cost, so deficit spending will increase even more. The public, sadly, has become dumb enough to accept all of this. Perhaps in two years the liberal dems will get massacred in the elections. One can only hope.

oh please jl you know that everything under the sun is stapled to a spending bill, stop the righteous indignation

oh please jl you know that everything under the sun is stapled to a spending bill,Yeah. We certainly wouldn't want to oppose corruption and deception in our government. Just let the rot continue. That's the Clete philosophy of citizenship?

When our stupid government runs up massive debts that my children and grandchildren will be saddled with for decades, then you better believe I'll shout about it. Perhaps you don't care about your children, but I care about mine.

Yeah. We certainly wouldn't want to oppose corruption and deception in our government. Just let the rot continue. That's the Clete philosophy of citizenship?

When our stupid government runs up massive debts that my children and grandchildren will be saddled with for decades, then you better believe I'll shout about it. Perhaps you don't care about your children, but I care about mine. Not my philosophy, we don't allow such shenanigans and rightly so. Yes I care about my children and my grandchildren but only recently have we had a government willing to spend lavishly in the face of adversity so I see the problem in a different light. The economy must move and if certain sectors need help, then help should be given to get things moving. If you didn't have the preponderance of government weighing things down at every level, things might seem clearer to you too

Let the fringers tell it then anything anybody does for ordinary people who have little or no wealth then it's corrupt. If it costs a few bucks then it's debt. When they give rich guys mo'money then it's not debt or corruption.

Yeah they may worry about their kids and grand kids, but nobody else's for sure, unless you believe their LIES!

what ever happened to the idea of trickle down economics, give the rich more money and they will create jobs? A somewhat discredited theory that appears to be still in vogue

what ever happened to the idea of trickle down economics, give the rich more money and they will create jobs? A somewhat discredited theory that appears to be still in vogue

Trickle down is still the repub mantra (though rebranded and marketed by the JOB CREATORS) and tax cuts always are the fuel along with generous legislation to legalize stealing and protect those lucrative extractions through the tax code. Which makes any po people program socialism even though it helps the middle classers mostly.

Just ask the conservative repubs here who always complain about the dems being socialist, and taking their money and running up deficits for their kids to repay. Understandable if your standing under the table when the crumbs fall, but forget it if you aren't invited under the table. In all honesty though that's what repubs are paid to do.

They just abandoned any semblance of caring about the deficit, or paying for anything, until dems get into control.

You think someone controls this, well maybe in the very high echelons of the gnomes of Zurich, but it is just lurching from one mistake to another

if they find they can get a better deal by being rent seekers that is the course they will take . The Dems lie out of their a$$ when they complain about corporate influence in the political process .

Yes, loaning money and owning property is always more lucrative than taking risk and being productive. However if we all adopted that attitude returns would quickly fall

You think someone controls this, well maybe in the very high echelons of the gnomes of Zurich, but it is just lurching from one mistake to another

Money is power and influence. Always has been since the days of early man so what's your point?


if they find they can get a better deal by being rent seekers that is the course they will take . The Dems lie out of their a$$ when they complain about corporate influence in the political process .

See above and tell me it's just the dems lying about money in politics. Is that why the dufus and repubs lie and get donations up the ying yang?

Money is power and influence. . Is that why the dufus and repubs lie and get donations up the ying yang?

You answered your own question, not everyone is pleased quid occupies the WH, doesn't seem to do much else

s that why the dufus and repubs lie and get donations up the ying yang?Biden has lied and lied repeatedly. I'm confident all the fair minded liberals here will be shocked and dismayed by this. (Sarcasm meter pegged)

https://710wor.iheart.com/featured/mark-simone/content/2020-08-27-the-very-long-list-of-the-many-times-joe-bidens-been-caught-in-major-lies/

Another huge whopper. ""Why is Glenys the first woman in her family in a thousand generations to be able to get to university? Was it because all our predecessors were thick?"

A few months later, as a young Mr Biden was attempting to become the youngest US president since John F Kennedy, he made a speech containing an almost identical passage."

https://news.sky.com/story/the-neil-kinnock-plagiarism-row-that-dogged-joe-bidens-first-presidential-bid-11703552

And another. "Near the debate's end, he said, "All you have to do is go down Union Street with me in Wilmington and go to Katie's Restaurant or walk into Home Depot with me where I spend a lot of time and you ask anybody in there whether or not the economic and foreign policy of this administration has made them better off in the last eight years."News Journal feature writer Ryan Cormier blogged the next day that the Katie's mention caught him and food writer Patricia Talorico off guard. He said she checked "and realized Biden was referring to the long-closed Katie's Italian restaurant," two blocks from Union at Sixth and Scott streets."

The restaurant where he claimed to spend "a lot of time" had been closed for many years. Whoops.

https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2014/10/12/katies-subject-biden-gaffe-razed/17172745/

Ole Joe submitted his plan to the people, so guess whose turn it is to submit a plan instead of cry beetch and moan about his?

you mean there is a plan, what has he achieved in 100 days?

He held one press conference!

you mean there is a plan, what has he achieved in 100 days?

He has made more than 80M people feel better and sigh with relief.

Really?

Of course he has and that's a fine start.

and what does he do for an encore, hold another press conference, how exhausting for a man of his years

Pass the infrastructure and jobs bill along with police reforms and civil rights upgrades.

and what does he do for an encore, hold another press conference, how exhausting for a man of his yearsNews conferences are feared in the Biden admin. KH was put in charge of the southern border about a month ago. She has held no press conferences and hasn't even visited the border.

Come on guys! You expect Joe to fix in a few days what the dufus screwed up for 4 years? REALLY?

She has held no press conferences and hasn't even visited the border.
Oh, no! I sure wish someone would invent devices that would connect people who are far apart, like a telly-talk thing and a huge electronic net thing that would allow people to send typed and even vocal messages.

Oh, no! I sure wish someone would invent devices that would connect people who are far apart, like a telly-talk thing and a huge electronic net thing that would allow people to send typed and even vocal messages.Oh? She's had an electronic news conference, or a virtual visit to the border?

Not.

Oh? She's had an electronic news conference, or a virtual visit to the border?

Not.
You know this how?

She has held no news conference of any kind in the past 30 days. Her office has announced no "virtual visits" to the border.

Why can't she get off her sorry arse, go to the border, spend of couple of days there, and make some effort to find out what's going on? She could talk to local law enforcement, local ranchers, local businessmen, and get a first hand view of the problem. I realize she is one of your beloved liberal dems, but if she is in charge of the border, doesn't she need a first hand view?

What would you rather do, go to the Grand Canyon, or look at pics of the Grand Canyon gathered by, "a telly-talk thing and a huge electronic net thing"?

Harris has been slowly ramping up her efforts to work with Mexico and the three Central American countries known as the Northern Triangle — El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras — since Biden gave her the job. She has had phone calls with the presidents of Mexico and Guatemala in which she discussed ways to address factors that drive migrants north, including poverty and violence, as well as security efforts in those countries.

On Wednesday [04/14/21], she convened a virtual round table of experts on migration, Latin America policy and climate change, saying results won’t materialize overnight.

“Most people don’t want to leave home,” Harris said. “When they do ... they are fleeing some harm, or (because) to remain home is to remain in a position where there is no opportunity to meet essential needs that include feeding their children, keeping a roof over their head and engaging in productive work.”

Asked whether she would go to the border, Harris said that was a job for Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas. Her job, she added, was focusing on diplomacy and humanitarian aid to Central America.

“We must address the symptoms, and that is what is happening with the team of folks who are working on the border, led by Ali Mayorkas,” Harris said. “But we also have to deal with the root causes. Otherwise, we are just in a perpetual system of only dealing with the symptoms.”

Harris has been slowly ramping up her effortsThat's sure true. VERY slowly.


Asked whether she would go to the border, Harris said that was a job for Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas. Her job, she added, was focusing on diplomacy and humanitarian aid to Central America.So the person in charge of the southern border sees no need to go and see...the southern border??? Well...OK.

That's sure true. VERY slowly.

So the person in charge of the southern border sees no need to go and see...the southern border??? Well...OK.

Why don't you read what WG wrote before making stupid statements?

So the person in charge of the southern border sees no need to go and see...the southern border??? Well...OK.

Tell me what do you think she will learn from viewing a fence or the lack of one, depending upon where she goes? Do you expect she view all 1900 miles of the border? to what end? Perhaps focusing on the diplomatic solution needs to be tried. Perhaps you just want her to view the child cages

Why can't she get off her sorry arse, go to the border, spend of couple of days there, and make some effort to find out what's going on?
No one who hasn't been there has any clue what's going on, what the problems are, what the needs are, right?

This is a bigger job than we though. Dragging fringers from the dufus arse and dragging them into the new century and all they do is kick and scream.

This is a bigger job than we though. Dragging fringers from the dufus arse and dragging them into the new century and all they do is kick and scream.
Maybe we could get some opioids from Canada and dose those fringers to make them more relaxed and flexible.

No one who hasn't been there has any clue what's going on, what the problems are, what the needs are, right?If you want to lead, you need to do things the right way.

If you want to lead, you need to do things the right way.
The JL way.... Read Paraclete's comment.

The JL way.... Read Paraclete's comment.He should have read my comments before making his foolish post. No one suggested she do that at any time.

If you were put in charge of a library, would you bother to go there, check it out, talk to those in charge, find out the problems, get a sense of the real needs, and speak with the stakeholders, or would you use that internet thingie and just look on from a distance? You wouldn't need to look at every book anymore that she needs to look at every mile of border, but you would need to do more than sit miles away.

He should have read my comments before making his foolish post. No one suggested she do that at any time.

If you were put in charge of a library, would you bother to go there, check it out, talk to those in charge, find out the problems, get a sense of the real needs, and speak with the stakeholders, or would you use that internet thingie and just look on from a distance? You wouldn't need to look at every book anymore that she needs to look at every mile of border, but you would need to do more than sit miles away.


JL, I don't make foolish comments unless it is in answer to equally foolish ideas. Your problem is you are against any solution you didn't think of first. Politicians make inspections to be seen to make inspections, a photo op, nothing is served by this, and just maybe the lady is smart enough to realise that she is early enough in the electoral cycle not to need to do it to satisfy critics like you

You just made one. Very foolish.

what calling you a critic?

No. In suggesting we send her down to look at 1900 miles of border. No one suggested any such thing.

If you were put in charge of a library, would you bother to go there, check it out, talk to those in charge
If I'm in charge of a library, why would I talk to "those in charge"? I'm sooooo confused by your weird description. Have you ever been to a public library?!

Libraries don’t have department heads? They don't have trustees? Have YOU ever been in a library???

Libraries don’t have department heads? They don't have trusyees?
Why didn't you use those terms the first time? Because of covid, I'd deal with them via phone and internet. Like Paraclete said, "Politicians make inspections to be seen to make inspections, a photo op, nothing is served by this, and just maybe the lady is smart enough to realise that she is early enough in the electoral cycle not to need to do it to satisfy critics like you"

No. In suggesting we send her down to look at 1900 miles of border. No one suggested any such thing.
Well maybe someone should make a real fact finding trip

Why didn't you use those terms the first time?Because I'm dealing with someone who, I thought, knows how to think.

Because of covid, I'd deal with them via phone and internet.So you expect all of them to show up to work, but not you? You would be fired on the spot. If I am appointed to be a new school principal, I would WANT to be there and WOULD be there.


Like Paraclete said, "Politicians make inspections to be seen to make inspections, a photo op, nothing is served by this, and just maybe the lady is smart enough to realise that she is early enough in the electoral cycle not to need to do it to satisfy critics like you"I suppose they do in Australia. Pols do what we demand of them.


Well maybe someone should make a real fact finding tripI agree. That someone should be KH.

Like Paraclete said, "Politicians make inspections to be seen to make inspections, a photo op, nothing is served by this, and just maybe the lady is smart enough to realise that she is early enough in the electoral cycle not to need to do it to satisfy critics like you"

I don't always agree with Paraclete, bit a good statement is worth repeating.

Thanks for the accolade Athos

Harris is a no show .....at the border and at her job. She may be the classic VP waiting around for the boss to croak .

Harris is a no show .....at the border and at her job. She may be the classic VP waiting around for the boss to croak .She was the classic VP politically motivated choice. A black, liberal, far-left female just checked all the boxes. Competence was not necessary.

49337

Harris is a no show .....at the border and at her job. She may be the classic VP waiting around for the boss to croak .

Like Pence?


She was the classic VP politically motivated choice. A black, liberal, far-left female just checked all the boxes. Competence was not necessary.

Like Pence?

VP Harris is selling her children's books to the government to distribute to the illegal minors being housed in Long Beach as part of a welcome packet ..
Kamala Harris' book is included in welcome packs for unaccompanied migrant children | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9507373/Kamala-Harris-book-included-welcome-packs-unaccompanied-migrant-children.html)

What is her cut ?

Well no wonder she can't hold a news conference or visit the border. Those book tours can be exhausting!!

Does it mean anything that you dufus supporters lost the election and you no longer call the shots? Go ahead, cry all you want about the new guy, but get your own hankies.

Does it mean anything that you dufus supporters lost the election and you no longer call the shots? Go ahead, cry all you want about the new guy, but get your own hankies.

there is a new guy, I think they call him the invisible man

so everyone is praising the so called bipartisanship of the Quid team. Senators from both parties (called currently as the gang of ten ) did the ole sausage making thingy ;the give and take ,and concocted a bill that is not quite as expensive . Details ? Who cares !? Just make the bill big enough so that no one will read it .

Evidently some of Quid's wish list was removed from the bill .

How do we know that ? Well Quid did one of his senior moments that his staff was not prepared for . During the triumphant announcement ,Quid said that he would not sign the bill that the Senate passes unless there is a reconciliation .

“I expect that in the coming months this summer, before the fiscal year is over, that we will have voted on this bill, the infrastructure bill, as well as voted on the budget resolution. But if only one comes to me, this is the only one that comes to me, I’m not signing it. It’s in tandem,”

What it is is a classic bait and switch .Republicans who were part of the negotiations believed up to that moment that Quid would sign the infrastructure bill in July and the budget process would proceed . This was amazing in that the double cross took place at the announcement of the agreement instead of in secret meetings weeks after an agreement is reached . The White House has been trying to spin this since .

My take is repubs ain't calling all the shots and Joe intends to get what he wants. He did win didn't he? Yep and the dems are on notice too what Joe wants.

Go for it Joe!!

https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/201944111_10159535351809282_959664148905354126_n.j pg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=cXoXYYK7d9oAX9Q12bI&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-2.xx&oh=6734327311e047ab88dc737184ebd68a&oe=60DCB7E6

https://i0.wp.com/cartoonstate.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/[email protected]?resize=678%2C959&ssl=1

the role of the opposition party for many years now has been to obstruct. The last time I can recall where the parties worked together was when Bubba and Newt worked together on various issues like budget , and welfare reform .

More on Keystone XL . Was Quid's executive order stopping construction unconstitutional ? I think so ;and so do a number of interested parties who have filed suit . 23 states have joined the suit with Montana AG Austin Knudsen releasing a statement saying;

“The Constitution is clear that presidents do not have the power to regulate foreign and interstate commerce or to unilaterally undo an act of Congress. We will continue to fight to this federal overreach – along with the 22 other states – so that Montanans can benefit from the jobs, tax revenue, and enhanced energy independence the Keystone XL will bring to our communities.”
Several exhaustive studies undertaken by the Obama State Department that concluded the Keystone XL pipeline would boost the U.S economy, create American jobs, and safely transport oil throughout the country without increasing greenhouse gas emissions. Despite not having the power to do so, Biden revoked the permit via executive order on his first day in office.

Two more states join AG Knudsen’s Keystone XL lawsuit against Biden administration - Montana Department of Justice (dojmt.gov) (https://dojmt.gov/two-more-states-join-ag-knudsens-keystone-xl-lawsuit-against-biden-administration/)

The lawsuit was started by Knudsen and Texas AG Ken Paxton. The Canadian province of Saskatchewan also announced it would file an amicus brief in support of the lawsuit,

self proclaimed Reupub moderates in the Senate like Rob Portman and Susan Collins and Bill Cassidy must really be feeling betrayed by Quid's bait and switch. Portman publicly praised the compromise because the compromise had no changes to the 2017 tax bill; and was solely core infrastructure priorities (not human infrastructure).He would not have made that public if Quid had not agreed to it.


Here was Quid's rhetoric during the negotiations (he spent many years in the Senate ) :

"You know, a lot of us go back a long way, where we're used to doing one thing: Give each other our word and that's the end," "Nobody questions it. They have my word, I'll stick with what they proposed, and they've given me their word as well. So, where I come from, that's good enough for me."

uh huh !

so what you are questioning is whether Biden is as good as his word?

Perhaps the question is whether Biden can even remember his word.

Or speak a coherent word