Brokered by President Trump ,the 2 nations agreed to establish economic relations.

https://apnews.com/3b7aca39c6829655d43de30f68497ed1

The U.S. position on the Serbia-Kosovo conflict has been that steps toward economic normalization will dilute the power and importance of the dispute’s political issues , The parties agree to construct a roadway and rail link between their capitals, Belgrade and Pristina. They have committed to a joint feasibility study on options for linking the rail infrastructure to a deep-sea port in the Adriatic. All these agreements will enable a more free and efficient flow of people and goods across the border .The agreement expedites efforts to locate and identify the remains of missing persons from their 1990s war . Both parties have pledged to come up with solutions for refugees and displaced persons from the war.Serbia and Kosovo have agreed to open and operationalize the Merdare Common Crossing Point facility, to recognize each other’s diplomas and professional certificates, and to join the economic zone announced by Serbia, Albania and North Macedonia in October 2019.

Serbia also agreed to follow the US lead in moving it's Israel Embassy to Jerusalem .

Historic

Just another step in an ongoing process that started in the 90's that the world has been working on. Give the devil his due for it happening on his watch, but let's not get carried away with giving the dufus all the credit.

No doubt that will be his spin, and no doubt he will tout everybody else's past failures in this regard.

yeah just like the Israeli -UAE agreement was inevitable ? Just like the Camp David accords were ?

I already gave the dufus his due, let's not get carried away by this baby step, after years of baby steps and like I say the journey started long ago.

Just maybe the Muslims are learning

Imagine if the emperor had signed a peace agreement of this magnitude (I can’t either). Think it would be ignored by the major news outlets ? More likely there would have been a prime time special on every network .
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eh_XLJdXgAAdMjE?format=jpg&name=small

Geez Tom, do you have to elevate the dufus by bashing Obama? I mean we all know these talks have been going on for decades and the devil is in the details. The dufus has broken as many agreements as he has brokered, but I understand conservatives want the devil to have his due for the good stuff that happens on his watch but let's face it the election covid and economy is the front page stuff along with the weather.

The agreement is a good talking point considering his Ukraine debacle, and I thought he already had a press secretary.

you know I am right . The emperor got a Nobel Peace Prize for showing up at the White House on day one . This signing would've merited an all night Prime time event had it been the emperor

Like I said there seems to be other news garnering a lot more attention during silly season like the weather and raging fires with the smoke being felt in other parts of the country. Then there's covid and all the controversy around that and a 100 days of protests. I mean with all that going on Tom, a railroad in eastern Europe and rich Arabs and rich Isralis doing the tourist stuff is just not as attention getting.

Cheer up, Camp David didn't help Carter either.

It is not about the election. In 8 years in the White House the only deal the emperor got was the appeasing deal to the nation in the region that has no interest in peace. All they have done with the money we gave them is continue to wage war in Iraq ,Syria ,and Yemen. He started his term by apologizing to the Arab world and it went down hill from there .

I already gave the dufus his dueBy equating him to the devil??? Well, I guess that's what passes for high praise now days. Tom is exactly correct. If practically anyone else had pulled off these agreements, they would be showered with praise. If Obama had done it, they would have nominated him to be king of the planet.

Could it be the dufus has done more bad stuff than good stuff?

Could it be the dufus has done more bad stuff than good stuff?

Could it be? The world gives a resounding YES!!

Could it be the dufus has done more bad stuff than good stuff?

Well, let's find out. I'll list ten good things, and then you can list 10 bad things. Just remember to be specific.

1. Serbia-Kosovo peace agreement.
2. Israeli peace accord.
3. Recognition of Jerusalem as capitol of Israel.
4. Appointment of fed judges who actually believe in the rule of law.
5. Jettisoned NAFTA for USMCA.
6. Achieved historic lows for unemployment.
7. Achieved economic growth with low inflation.
8. Economy created 10X more manufacturing jobs during his first 20 months than the last 20 months of Obama.
9. Granted a full pardon to Alice Johnson.
10. Completed a significant portion of the southern wall.

OK. Your turn, but be specific! "He is a orange-haired dufus!" will not count.

I'll list ten good things, and then you can list 10 bad things.
Only ten bad things?

you throw out a challenge Jl

but granted a pardon to Alice Johnson is hardly a momentous achievement so find another one and 300 miles is not a significant portion only count 8 so far

Failed to mange the Covid 19 crisis
Imposed tariffs on China ruining part of the US economy who had to pay the price
Ignoring the suffering of refugees on the southern border
Sacked numerous appointed officials, counts as poor judgement in appointing them
Failed to deal with the dreamers crisis which he created
Failed to get appropriation for the Great Wall of Trump and therefore failed in border control
Bombed Syria without conclusive evidence
Had the streets violently cleared of peaceful protesters so he could take a walk
Has been continually aggressive in the South China Sea a place where the US has no territorial rights
is a loud mouthed self obscessed liar and doesn't wear a mask
failed to provide funding to Peurto Rico when it was devastated by a hurricane

The pardon to Alice Johnson was significant news around here.

So let me get this straight. The congress would not fund the wall. You blame that on Trump, and then give him no credit for somehow finding money to build 300 miles?? Your clearing the streets comment is ridiculous. The U.S. sent 90 bil to Puerto Rico so I guess that is failing "to provide funding" in your mind. Your ninth one is absurd. Your third one is flatly wrong as is your first one. But at any rate, here are ten more with one bonus.



Trump recently signed three bills to benefit Native people. One gives compensation to the Spokane tribe for loss of their lands in the mid-1900s, one funds Native language programs, and the third gives federal recognition to the Little Shell Tribe of Chippewa Indians in Montana.
Trump finalized the creation of Space Force as our 6th Military branch.
Trump signed a law to make cruelty to animals a federal felony so that animal abusers face tougher consequences.
Violent crime has fallen every year he’s been in office after rising during the two years before he was elected.
Trump signed a bill making CBD and Hemp legal.
Trump’s EPA gave $100 million to fix the water infrastructure problem in Flint, Michigan.
Under Trump’s leadership, in 2018 the U.S. surpassed Russia and Saudi Arabia to become the world’s largest producer of crude oil.
Trump signed the “Allow States and Victims to Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act” (FOSTA), which includes the “Stop Enabling Sex Traffickers Act” (SESTA) which both give law enforcement and victims new tools to fight sex trafficking.
Trump signed a bill to require airports to provide spaces for breastfeeding moms.
The 25% lowest-paid Americans enjoyed a 4.5% income boost in November 2019, which outpaces a 2.9% gain in earnings for the country’s highest-paid workers.
Low-wage workers are benefiting from higher minimum wages and from corporations that are increasing entry-level pay.

Trump signed a bill, must have taken him away from golf

Maybe you can come up with five this time that are accurate. And for those who live in Australia and so don't know how our government works, no bill arrives on a president's desk without significant cooperation between the executive and the legislative branches. It's not a situation where the bill arrives by stork.

Maybe you can come up with five this time that are accurate. And for those who live in Australia and so don't know how our government works, no bill arrives on a president's desk without significant cooperation between the executive and the legislative branches. It's not a situation where the bill arrives by stork.

it doesn't arrive there at the whim of the president so unless it is one of his announced policies he cannot be given credit for it

Once you learn how our government works, you can comment on that. Plainly you don't know how it goes. There is constant give and take with bills. Presidents typically don't sign bills they have had no involvement with.

Yes, I have observed the too and frow, much frow and very little too. It seems that the only way legislation gets passed is when the same party controls both houses and the presidency. Yes it may be what the President wants and it may be a case of what he has to give up to get it. the Wall is a case in point, the President wants but he didn't get

Good observation Clete. Things tend to stall once a balance is reached and that's what we have now and after the election even if the dufus wins he may face a dem controlled congress, or another divided one, in which case little will get done and during a pandemic and that's not a good thing. Joe has a chance at full control, and maybe people will get a priority over profits, but if not things will likely get much worse.

@JL

Sorry I have no need to retread and repost old arguments and statements at this time, nor make silly lists of the obvious lies that are so numerous they would no doubt wreck havoc with my arthritic hands.

@JL

Sorry I have no need to retread and repost old arguments and statements at this time, nor make silly lists of the obvious lies that are so numerous they would no doubt wreck havoc with my arthritic hands.

After almost 4 years it's a done deal that Trump is a mental case, attested to by just about every psychiatrist on the planet. The remaining mystery is what is the mental condition of those who have backed and continue to back Trump? They must be aware of Trump's condition and yet they follow along like rats following the Pied Piper.

It's only a matter of time before they will have to pay the Piper.

Sorry I have no need to retread and repost old arguments and statements at this time, nor make silly lists of the obvious lies that are so numerous they would no doubt wreck havoc with my arthritic hands.And yet again, it is plainly obvious that you have no idea. I knew that was the case when I made my post. This has all become so comically predictable. The liberal approach has become so dull. Make accusations, and then when that blows up, just make some more, and hope you can keep ahead of being held responsible. Above all else, avoid any talk of evidence or data. They are so frightened.

After almost 4 years it's a done deal that Trump is a mental case, attested to by just about every psychiatrist on the planet. The remaining mystery is what is the mental condition of those who have backed and continue to back Trump? They must be aware of Trump's condition and yet they follow along like rats following the Pied Piper.

It's only a matter of time before they will have to pay the Piper.

We are already paying for his devious lying lunacy and it doesn't take a doctor to diagnosis the orange fool.

it doesn't take a doctor to diagnosis the orange fool.Really? So now you think you are qualified to make those judgments without ever speaking to your "patient"? Amazing where hate will take someone.


attested to by just about every psychiatrist on the planet.First you said it was a hundred shrinks but couldn't name even one, and now we have this totally absurd statement. And you want to accuse Trump of lying? He's never told a whopper to compare with these two. And to top it off, there was this.


He really should not have gone down the road of challenging his opponent’s mental acuity.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. How much more blatant can it get?

And yet again, it is plainly obvious that you have no idea. I knew that was the case when I made my post. This has all become so comically predictable. The liberal approach has become so dull. Make accusations, and then when that blows up, just make some more, and hope you can keep ahead of being held responsible. Above all else, avoid any talk of evidence or data. They are so frightened.

I just chose not to engage in arguments when you revert to silly right wing loony partisan banter. I actually have a real life and a few fantasy sports teams to manage and a huge family that's sometimes as nutty as you are.

I wish that you would pay attention to all the time money and efforts that sports teams have put in to have a season and maybe schools and businesses could follow that example. Naw, states would rather just open it up and let the chips fall where they as they put profit before the safety of the people. The dufus leads the cheer for that. No point in providing a blind man with evidence he refuses to see so I ain't wasting my time.

I actually have a real life and a few fantasy sports teams to manageI hope you see the irony in that comment.

Look, you can choose to not engage if you wish, but you can't insist on me accepting your bogus excuse. Again, the pattern is established. Make some accusation, and then refuse to provide evidence.

I don't pay attention to the anti-American groups known as the NFL and NBA. One of my fondest hopes is that they all go broke. As for putting profit before the people, I find that the only people who say that are the ones whose income has not been affected.

Look, you can choose to not engage if you wish
It's sorta like playing Bible verse bingo or throwing gotcha Bible verses back and forth.

You certainly can't say we are, "throwing gotcha Bible verses back and forth." You don't have any. According to Athos, your view is correct since it came from deep within you and agrees with his view. I suppose that is now your standard of truth. Good luck.

Ignoring the suffering of refugees on the southern border ....ie illegal aliens
Sacked numerous appointed officials, counts as poor judgement in appointing them....that has been explained before . Being an outsider he had to rely on GOP swamp critters initially .So of course as he gained experience he appointed people he could trust .


Failed to deal with the dreamers crisis which he created.....he did not create the crisis. The emperor for years correctly stated he had no authority to impose a solution . Then he went ahead and made an unconstitutional EO . It is not up to the President to make immigration laws . It is up to Congress.

Failed to get appropriation for the Great Wall of Trump and therefore failed in border control .......you are funny .1st you sound like a Dem crying about "refugees " as you call them . Then you sound all tough border security . The purse string is in Congress' hand . The Dems lie about how much border wall has been built and /or fencing replaced .He has done well shifting funds for the purpose with money the executive controls .

Bombed Syria without conclusive evidence....I don't even know what you mean by that .
Had the streets violently cleared of peaceful protesters so he could take a walk....Bill Barr was on the ground and he tells a different tale . Nonetheless , the 'peaceful protesters' were there illegally and would not disperse when ordered to do so .
Has been continually aggressive in the South China Sea a place where the US has no territorial rights....we absolutely have the internationally recognized right of freedom of navigation. The US navy conducts 'Freedom of Navigation 'exercises to demonstrate and re-enforce that right from the Chinese aggressors who make territorial claims in international waters and in the territorial waters of other nations in the South China Sea. .

failed to provide funding to Peurto Rico when it was devastated by a hurricane....you really have difficulty with this concept that Congress controls the purse string of the US .

Well...now we're back to needing ten negatives since the first list of ten has been pretty much eviscerated.

I hope you see the irony in that comment.

Look, you can choose to not engage if you wish, but you can't insist on me accepting your bogus excuse. Again, the pattern is established. Make some accusation, and then refuse to provide evidence.

I don't pay attention to the anti-American groups known know you know that already so no big deal. as the NFL and NBA. One of my fondest hopes is that they all go broke. As for putting profit before the people, I find that the only people who say that are the ones whose income has not been affected.

I won't engage with all your BS on your terms irony or not, but I know you know that already. I accept you will dismiss any evidence that contradicts your narrative about anything so again...NO BIG THANG! To each his own.


Well...now we're back to needing ten negatives since the first list of ten has been pretty much eviscerated.

Not like your right wing loony list is that solid especially the space force joke. I can get with ideas but it doesn't exist in reality, so NO accomplishment.

If you ever give me any evidence which contradicts my narrative, I assure you I will consider it. To date, you have zero.

There was a time when NASA did not exist in reality. I think they did OK. This sixth branch actually has quite a bit of resources in orbit. They just have not yet been organized to handle it, but they will.

It's sorta like playing Bible verse bingo or throwing gotcha Bible verses back and forth.

Bible bingo! Perfect description. It's a game the fundie/literalists love to play. Unfortunately for them, it's the ONLY game they know. Listening to their conscience is a distant second to "The Bible tells me so".

Bible bingo! LOL.

Hmm. So listen to the ole inner voice rather than the Bible? Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Read my response to that on the "Nature of Salvation" thread and see if you have a reply. You have a position that basically cannot be defended. It's like telling a lawyer to just go by his conscience rather than the law.

yes . The beginnings of the space force is scattered amongst the various branches currently ;primarily in the Air Force and Navy . As an example it was revealed in January that Iranian missiles were targeting US fighters in Iraq. That came from an orbiting infrared satellite deployed by the US .That is a crucial early warning system.

If you recall ;at the time Trump credited early warning systems avoided US casualties when things got hot with Iran ;and Iran had launched more than a dozen missiles against the US Jan 7 10 of the missiles hit Al Assad Air Base.

It was the 2nd Space Warning Squadron that positioned the satellite . That squad is under the Air Force currently . But it will be moved to Space Force .

Thanks to member who referred this post to me.



Hmm. So listen to the ole inner voice rather than the Bible? Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Read my response to that on the "Nature of Salvation" thread and see if you have a reply.

Thank you for your referral to the "Nature of Salvation" thread. I will go there and reply if necessary.


You have a position that basically cannot be defended.

You asked me to reply. Are you now retracting that invitation?


It's like telling a lawyer to just go by his conscience rather than the law.

Excellent point! It's exactly the same. If the person's conscience tells him the law is wrong or unjust, of course he goes by his conscience. You have proven my point, probably inadvertently, but thank you anyway.

You asked me to reply. Are you now retracting that invitation?I didn't ask you to reply. That was directed to Tal. But you can reply if you'd like. I've rather enjoyed being blocked by you, but good times can only last so long. I don't care if you do or not. I don't value your views, but I do always try to be open to others.


Excellent point! It's exactly the same. If the person's conscience tells him the law is wrong or unjust, of course he goes by his conscience. You have proven my point, probably inadvertently, but thank you anyway.You are wrong on two counts. First, a lawyer who follows his conscience rather than the law will not be a lawyer for long. There are judges who enforce the law. If a lawyer does not respect the law, then the lawyer needs to become a legislator. And that's where your second mistake is found. God is not looking for those who want to legislate. He is looking for those who want to believe. His wisdom is far above ours. To place what amounts to your own thoughts of right and wrong above what God says is the absolute height of arrogance.

There are many different types of lawyers and most in private practice serve the interest of the client and all are guided by the law. I mean conscious or not representing criminal and bad guys you do have a duty to do as the law requires and to practice whatever area of the law you choose.

Anyone can choose to let their conscience be their guide, or whatever else motivates them. Everyone has that choice and not everyone will agree with your choice, opinion, or interpretation of whatever scripture you can quote. That doesn't make them any more or less flawed than you or anyone else. Now you can argue the right and wrong of anything as can we all but none have the authority to force anyone even if they have the means.

Scripture has no authority unless one chooses to give it that authority. Bummer I know that YOU are not the arbiter of that authority.

I would agree with your first paragraph.

You had me going with you in the second paragraph until this. "...none have the authority to force anyone even if they have the means." Governments do that routinely. You will pay your taxes or go to jail. Most people, under threat of punishment, elect to pay their taxes.

I would not agree with the third. It is like saying that the law has no authority unless I decide to grant authority to it. If the Bible is God's word, which is the big question, then it has authority, a fact you will discover some day.

There really is a very simple answer to this discussion. I believe the Bible is God's word. You do not. We both have authority over our own wills and can make those decisions. We both also have to accept the ramifications of our beliefs.

I didn't ask you to reply. That was directed to Tal.

No, it wasn't. It was directed to me. Here is what you posted to me:


Read my response to that on the "Nature of Salvation" thread and see if you have a reply.

That was not directed to Tal.

Then you wrote:


It's like telling a lawyer to just go by his conscience rather than the law.

I replied:



Excellent point! It's exactly the same. If the person's conscience tells him the law is wrong or unjust, of course he goes by his conscience. You have proven my point, probably inadvertently, but thank you anyway.

Your response:


You are wrong on two counts. First, a lawyer who follows his conscience rather than the law will not be a lawyer for long. There are judges who enforce the law. If a lawyer does not respect the law, then the lawyer needs to become a legislator. And that's where your second mistake is found. God is not looking for those who want to legislate. He is looking for those who want to believe. His wisdom is far above ours. To place what amounts to your own thoughts of right and wrong above what God says is the absolute height of arrogance.

Thank you for your opinion. Mine will be posted at the "Nature of Salvation" where you asked me to reply. Although now you are denying you ever asked me that, saying it was directed to tal. I have provided your words above. This is not a good start. If you are mistaken in such an obvious way, how can I expect you to read and respond in a rational manner?

I rechecked and you are correct. I somehow thought your post was Tal's since I had been "back and forthing" with him for a while. But feel free to respond. You always were. Remember that you had blocked me and not the other way around.

I rechecked and you are correct. I somehow thought your post was Tal's since I had been "back and forthing" with him for a while. But feel free to respond. You always were. Remember that you had blocked me and not the other way around.

Thank you.

I would agree with your first paragraph.

You had me going with you in the second paragraph until this. "...none have the authority to force anyone even if they have the means." Governments do that routinely. You will pay your taxes or go to jail. Most people, under threat of punishment, elect to pay their taxes.

I would not agree with the third. It is like saying that the law has no authority unless I decide to grant authority to it. If the Bible is God's word, which is the big question, then it has authority, a fact you will discover some day.

There really is a very simple answer to this discussion. I believe the Bible is God's word. You do not. We both have authority over our own wills and can make those decisions. We both also have to accept the ramifications of our beliefs.

I accept responsibility for my words, actions, and behavior and the government of man has the means to
enslave/imprison/suppress the body, but not the spirit.

Yesterday the third treaty between Israel and a former enemy nation was announced at the White House. That is the third Israli treaty the Trump adm helped negotiate . Add those to the success of the Serbia-Kosovo treaty The US is also wading in to another diplomatic effort between warring nations Armenia and Azerbaijan . No wonder NBC did not want to have foreign policy as a debate topic !

Mike Pompeo met separately in Washington with the foreign ministers of both countries yesterday in a bid to promote a cease-fire in hostilities over the disputed region of Nagorno-Karabakh. Russia had tried earlier in the week to broker a cease fire.

Both the US and Russia are a part of the Minsk Group set up by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe to mediate in the conflict.(OMG collusion!!!!)
Pay attention to this conflict .It is for a very strategic part of the world that as is often the case, involves the flow of energy .

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/officials-israel-sudan-close-peace-agreement-72444754#:~:text=A%20Sudanese%20Foreign%20Ministry %20official%20announced%20that%20his,all%20that%27 s%20needed%E2%80%9D%20to%20wrap%20up%20a%20deal.

Yesterday the third treaty between Israel and a former enemy nation was announced at the White House. That is the third Israli treaty the Trump adm helped negotiate .


Are you referring to Sudan, Tomder?

Peace is to be hoped for in the Middle East, but it's not clear re Sudan.

Sky News Arabia quoted a Sudanese Foreign Ministry spokesman as saying his government looked forward to a peace agreement “based on equality and Sudanese interests.”

“There is no reason to continue hostility between Sudan and Israel,” the spokesman, Haidar Badawi,


HOWEVER:


But Sudan’s Acting Foreign Minister Omar Qama al-Din sought to distance himself from the spokesman's comments, saying in a statement the remarks were received “with astonishment.” He said his ministry did not discuss the issue of ties with Israel.

Fake news from Trump? Just asking.

In the coming weeks, the two countries will begin negotiations on cooperation agreements in agriculture, economy, trade, aviation, migration issues, and other areas of mutual benefit.

At the White House announcement were officials from both Israel and Sudan
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/10/24/world/24israel-sudan-1/merlin_178954026_2ed2565b-946a-479a-876d-7aa76cf82567-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale

These countries have come from the 1967 Khartoum Resolution which stated that nations in the Arab League would never make peace with Israel to this agreement . No it does not YET approach the level of understanding that Israel made with the UAE . But it is a major breakthrough and the only reason there is no universal praise of this in the US press is because Trump helped broker it .

The US press has been very dishonest about the Trump foreign policy achievements . This move further isolates Arab nations from Iran and the dopey Palestinians who have had their extremism fed by a solidarity with Arab states .
Is it any wonder why both debate moderators steered clear of foreign policy as a debate topic ?

Israel will complete the creation of a safety cordon in the Red Sea, which includes Egypt, Jordan, South Sudan and Saudi Arabia. Sudan used to be a hub transporting weapons to the Gaza strip . The transfer of weapons from the Sinai Peninsula to Gaza, relies on smuggling routes passing through Sudan. This also brings normalization with Saudi Arabia closer to reality .

The emperor ;who won a Nobel Peace Prize just by being elected did nothing in the region to advance peace. He did the opposite feeding Iran with cash ,supporting their attempt at regional hegemony ;fomenting rebellion in some nations ;and not supporting popular uprising in Iran . He and Quid at his side did exactly to Israeli elections what they accuse Russia of attempting in the US .