https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/trumps-sadistic-phone-calls-to-scott-morrison-world-leaders-revealed/news-story/a10bf56d7e2d03fcf5405775030eb3c1

It has been revealed that Donald Trump has been abusive to world leaders and that this threatens america's alliances.

How is it that america can tolerate a person so divisive as President? better question, how is it that americans can elect a person so divisive as President? Don't they know how this paints them to the world, or don't they care?

Most of us can't tolerate him, but there's little that can be done. Without the support of the Republican party, he'd be long gone, impeached. Another impeachment as he gets wilder and more lawless is probably out of the question. The November election is the final solution for this evil corrupt man.

How did Americans elect him? An excellent question. He got in by the skin of his teeth as he won a few swing states by the barest of margins. In my opinion, which I can't prove, he was elected with the help of the Russians who managed to tip those states in his favor. This is in addition to the abortion issue which is a single issue for most evangelicals. Oddly, abortion means nothing to Trump. It is simply a means to an end for him.

We are acutely aware how Trump makes this once great country appear to the world. It will be a long time before the world forgets that this nation once elected a proto-Fascist to the highest office.

Most of us can't tolerate him, but there's little that can be done. Without the support of the Republican party, he'd be long gone, impeached. Another impeachment as he gets wilder and more lawless is probably out of the question. The November election is the final solution for this evil corrupt man.

How did Americans elect him? An excellent question. He got in by the skin of his teeth as he won a few swing states by the barest of margins. In my opinion, which I can't prove, he was elected with the help of the Russians who managed to tip those states in his favor. This is in addition to the abortion issue which is a single issue for most evangelicals. Oddly, abortion means nothing to Trump. It is simply a means to an end for him.

We are acutely aware how Trump makes this once great country appear to the world. It will be a long time before the world forgets that this nation once elected a proto-Fascist to the highest office.

Yes that electoral system produces bizarre results, but noone in the republican party opposes him, it is like he has them mesmerised, and his reactions in a crisis, just incrediable

This isn't the first time the religious nuts, and racists got together to get a president to further their white pride and god agenda Clete, and probably won't be the last. Nor is America the first country to give rise to a rather despicable morally corrupt head of state. We have many examples now through the world, and throughout history. You better hope we can flush the toilets here soon, and clean up the mess we made.

You need to drain the swamp too

JAW DROPPING BOMBSHELL!!! Trump trash talks every other world leader except Putin who he has a love affair with in a steam bath . Those bombshells are flying the last 2 weeks . For the left it is desperation time . They normally don't pull out all stops this early in the campaign.


Yes that electoral system produces bizarre results, What it does is make sure the views of all the country is accounted for ;not just the views of the urban people

Forget the views, the vote is what's counted, and long lines and waits in urban areas is not an equalizer.

What it does is make sure the views of all the country is accounted for ;not just the views of the urban people

When it was designed the country was much smaller

We've grown but the electoral college still decides who the leader is, and who get's to be a swamp critter.

The original point of the electoral college was to ensure that a despot would not be elected by the "mob" - as democracy was thought of in those days. It would be composed of the finest non-Federal upstanding citizens who would always do right by the nation.

Over time, things changed - attitudes, politics, rules for electors, etc. Ironically, in 2016 the college did exactly what it was designed NOT to do - it facilitated the election of a wannabee despot.

The rural/urban argument no longer applies, if it ever actually did. One man, one vote should be the future. Disproportionate representation already exists in the senate to satisfy the rural argument.

Most of the world views an alliance with the U.S. as an agreement for us to spend our money (that we don't have) on whatever they want done so they can spend their money on something other than their own defense. That's why we spend more on defense than the next seven countries combined and why that needs to stop starting today.

That's how it works with NATO. Europe is supposedly at risk from someone, so we spend money to help defend Europe. The European nations, unsurprisingly, spend significantly less of their GDP on defense than we do, and yet the idea is to defend, not the U.S., but the European countries. That also needs to stop beginning today. You want to stay free? Then get off your backside and take care of yourself.

Most of the world views an alliance with the U.S. as an agreement for us to spend our money (that we don't have) on whatever they want done so they can spend their money on something other than their own defense. That's why we spend more on defense than the next seven countries combined and why that needs to stop starting today.

That's how it works with NATO. Europe is supposedly at risk from someone, so we spend money to help defend Europe. The European nations, unsurprisingly, spend significantly less of their GDP on defense than we do, and yet the idea is to defend, not the U.S., but the European countries. That also needs to stop beginning today. You want to stay free? Then get off your backside and take care of yourself.

You are the ones who decided to "defend" Europe when actually you were making sure no power could arise there to rival you. The Soviets were a threat but only so far as taking over Europe. You have other allies

Even if I agreed with you, it would make no difference. We have practically become the defenders of the world. I am suggesting we stop, or at least insist that the world take on something at least approaching an equal share of the burden. Use Israel as a good example.

Even if I agreed with you, it would make no difference. We have practically become the defenders of the world. I am suggesting we stop, or at least insist that the world take on something at least approaching an equal share of the burden. Use Israel as a good example.


Israel is not an example of anything but colonialism, reestablishing Israel by taking over territory occupied by other peoples is colonialism. By this I am not suggesting the jewish people are not entitled to a homeland, but this was just trying to smooth over the lack of care in previous decades, and so the world, the UN, has an obligation to ensure the existence of Israel, but nations decide what they will contribute and the US has assumed the obligation.

Yes the US hegemony needs to be ended, the US is the reason there is an arms race, they have perpetuated this to their advantage

Whether your assessment is true or not, it would be absolute fairness for countries like yours to have to begin to genuinely pony up and do their part.

@ Clete, you may have a better point if you didn't blame the US for an arms race that happens because a bunch of people have arms. NOBODY wants to be outgunned.

As to US being the cops on the beat, well duh! Without a cop, we'd be at war! Every neighborhood needs a GOOD cop on the beat, but he can't do it alone. I won't get into the weeds on the money and such, I have no data or the compromises cut or accommodations made that offset the strict economy of arrangements and treaties, but public bluster and buffoonery to look tough isn't a very good way to endear cooperation of partners is it?

Whether your assessment is true or not, it would be absolute fairness for countries like yours to have to begin to genuinely pony up and do their part.


All you are doing is displaying your ignorance

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-30/australia-unveils-10-year-defence-strategy/12408232


@ Clete, you may have a better point if you didn't blame the US for an arms race that happens because a bunch of people have arms. NOBODY wants to be outgunned.

As to US being the cops on the beat, well duh! Without a cop, we'd be at war! Every neighborhood needs a GOOD cop on the beat, but he can't do it alone. I won't get into the weeds on the money and such, I have no data or the compromises cut or accommodations made that offset the strict economy of arrangements and treaties, but public bluster and buffoonery to look tough isn't a very good way to endear cooperation of partners is it?

Poor excuse the US outguns everybody then says you have to match our expenditure. And who would they buy arms from? the US of course. It is just a way of furthering your economic hegemony

Poor excuse the US outguns everybody then says you have to match our expenditure. And who would they buy arms from? the US of course. It is just a way of furthering your economic hegemony

More specifically the dufus makes that assertion on many fronts not just the military. Presidents before him have also recognized the inequity in military spending and even trade deficits, without the public shaming and bluster like a rich landlord squeezing his tenants. There is a better way than he has shown to keep our allies upgraded and ready for whatever this world can go through, but good orderly direction is not something the dufus on behalf of our national interests conduct effectively. He would rather just cancel everything that's been worked for and start all over except for the pushback against his tactics which nations are well within their own interests to do.

Indeed the US is trying to get rid of this fool for it's own sake.

Indeed the US is trying to get rid of this fool for it's own sake.

You are not trying hard enough. Do or not do, but try not

It's a lawful established process Clete. Like you have in your land. The Russian election is a different matter since Vlad is running for two terms instead of one at a time.

It's a lawful established process Clete. Like you have in your land. The Russian election is a different matter since Vlad is running for two terms instead of one at a time.

A lawfully established process, yes, but somewhat unlike that which we have in our land. We don't spend years in the election process and we get more bang for our buck. Russia has always had a czar, that is unlikely to change any time soon

looking for the biggest threat ? Well Clete they reside on your side of the world

https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/105974871_3776563902359447_8562683104169990273_o.j pg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_oc=AQka-AXwEUoyOf0rlVP19xNsST_p_pa4D1IFAzLdsqhpSchg88wUy07 4N3tuNoP6Z5g&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=cfddf21942bf4d4f2fbef75224f7d4ac&oe=5F21D48C


The rural/urban argument no longer applies, more so than ever


for Clete . You need us and you know it .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gg8QN6cFMc&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR1_VhWcSSV2hWuqlpMtah08dQGQpl1t6MzlNVxNx YP7wm7z1yYjtbU_p38

looking for the biggest threat ? Well Clete they reside on your side of the world

https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/105974871_3776563902359447_8562683104169990273_o.j pg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_oc=AQka-AXwEUoyOf0rlVP19xNsST_p_pa4D1IFAzLdsqhpSchg88wUy07 4N3tuNoP6Z5g&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=cfddf21942bf4d4f2fbef75224f7d4ac&oe=5F21D48C
more so than ever


for Clete . You need us and you know it .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gg8QN6cFMc&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR1_VhWcSSV2hWuqlpMtah08dQGQpl1t6MzlNVxNx YP7wm7z1yYjtbU_p38

Tal the question isn't who needs who, yes, they are on my side of the world but in your hemisphere, the northern hemisphere. Everything south of the equator is peaceful and we like it that way. China has been very belligerent towards us lately, probably because they don't want a Trump tantrum and more damage to their economy and so we offer a target, since we dared to suggest they hadn't been totally open about CV19, however they are very shortsighted because trade restrictions cut both ways. As to HK, neither you nor we will go to war regarding that unfortunate place

I'm willing to take right now 100,000 and more of their brainiac refugees right now . I so admire their people of Taiwan and their struggle for true liberty as opposed to the spoiled panty waist thugs who have taken to the American streets .

Hey Clete, you quoted Tom, not me. The relationship between two leaders is best conducted between them without the public posturing and politics to feed the base. Nobody likes the dufus ways of chaos and certainly not the outcome of uncertainty he has so far.


I'm willing to take right now 100,000 and more of their brainiac refugees right now . I so admire their people of Taiwan and their struggle for true liberty as opposed to the spoiled panty waist thugs who have taken to the American streets .

Bet you would. Those Brainiac's smart and admirable though they be probably should fight for their freedom like all us freedom loving people have, and taking to the streets to keep fighting for that freedom.

Yes, we will take them too, add to our considerable chinese population and make ourselves even more unpopular. However, we won't go to war over it, HK is a lost cause. As to me mistaking you for Tom, just seemed a continuation of our conversation and your ability to find graphics

If we can kick Russia out of the G8 over Crimea, why give China a free pass over Taiwan? If you can have a trade was over trade imbalance, why not over Taiwan? If you can tear up treaties on a whim against everybody, why not for Taiwan? Too many options available Clete, besides capitulation or a war, however you define it.

If we can kick Russia out of the G8 over Crimea, why give China a free pass over Taiwan? If you can have a trade was over trade imbalance, why not over Taiwan? If you can tear up treaties on a whim against everybody, why not for Taiwan? Too many options available Clete, besides capitulation or a war, however you define it.

Kicking Russia out cost you nothing, tokenism. But will you kick China out over HK or Taiwan, much more to lose there

That doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, whatever the global disruptions. Screw the capitalists who divide the world for personal profits.

my goal is for the US to decouple from China . They are not economic competitors ,they are economic enemies . They are not geopolitical competitors . They are geopolitical enemies . They have shown over and over again that theirs is a zero sum game . https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/26/asia/india-china-border-clash-satellite-images-intl-hnk-scli/index.html

I think they're both Tom, and as ruthless as we have been and continue to be.

as ruthless as we have been and continue to be.
silly and false moral equivalency the liberal disease . Right now as the exterminate the Uyghur they are harvesting their body parts for sale. https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2020/07/9893586/us-border-hair-products-uyghur-women-prison-china

Two of their population ,Uyghur and Falan Gong are subject to having organs removed from their body so the Chinese can put them on the market .

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-religious-ethnic-minorities-uighur-muslim-harvest-organs-un-human-rights-a9117911.html

Yeah that's pretty gruesome, inhuman, and downright nasty. Not widely known either.

yes godless communists are capable of anything

Godless, cruel, and inhuman as they may be, they are one of the biggest dogs in the world. We have no choice but to deal with them in some form or fashion. Ever try to ignore a big mean dog in the neighbor hood who has no leash and will bite you?

You have to know dogs to deal with them, show fear and they will bite

Two big mean dogs in the same yard usually ends in a fight.

I think Slim Pickins said something like that in 'Dr Strangelove '

Great movie, but is the yard big enough for 3 big mean dogs? Wonder whose lunch?

calling your country a dog, really tal, you get it right sometines

Let the Independence Day fireworks begin !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCIsI7EUYL8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCIsI7EUYL8)

Let the Independence Day fireworks begin !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCIsI7EUYL8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCIsI7EUYL8)

https://www.penncapital-star.com/commentary/what-to-the-slave-is-the-fourth-of-july-frederick-douglass/

Watching our dufus 's divisive campaign speech to celebrate the 4th of July on Native land brought these words home.

https://www.penncapital-star.com/commentary/what-to-the-slave-is-the-fourth-of-july-frederick-douglass/
(https://www.penncapital-star.com/commentary/what-to-the-slave-is-the-fourth-of-july-frederick-douglass/)
That is an incredibly powerful speech by Douglas. I had never seen it before and it is steeped in the formality of oratory of 150 years go, but it loses nothing and remains a masterpiece of clear thinking and powerful persuasion. Douglas has said what many of us have thought, but only in a shadowy way and lacking the skill to make of it anything but shadowy thinking. Here we have it laid out so perfectly, it is breathtaking.

I suggest everyone here, right or left, take the time to read the words of this extraordinary man.

https://www.penncapital-star.com/commentary/what-to-the-slave-is-the-fourth-of-july-frederick-douglass/

Watching our dufus 's divisive campaign speech to celebrate the 4th of July on Native land brought these words home.
Unfortunately, words as true now as they were then. I pray the November election will be the beginning of changes for the better.

Let the Independence Day fireworks begin ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCIsI7EUYL8You can celebrate when you have something to celebrate

oops wrong video . I posted that video on another site referring to the idiots destroying statues without having the slightest idea of the person ;or in this specific case they torched a statue of an elk in Portland ..

The link that was supposed to be posted was this

Let the Independence Day fireworks begin !



https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/03/politics/us-navy-south-china-sea/index.html

I like the Batman video better. Like China will change plans and policies with a simple show of force.

Like China will change plans and policies with a simple show of force.


China has a sense of history, a long and colourful history, marked by many conquests and defeats, they have learned how to play the long game, they are not tied to a short electorial cycle and they long ago learned the value of a wall and trade routes

Russia likes the lifetime leader stuff too, but we have been seeing the Hong Kong conflict coming for years now. Everybody seems eager to take those refugees in, if and when China allows it, and no talk of them fighting for their own freedom, like other refugees.

Wonder why?

Russia likes the lifetime leader stuff too, but we have been seeing the Hong Kong conflict coming for years now. Everybody seems eager to take those refugees in, if and when China allows it, and no talk of them fighting for their own freedom, like other refugees.

Wonder why?

You know why, a few million people against more than a billion

That makes no sense so maybe explain your rationale.

umm they are fighting for their freedom but like other freedom loving people (like us) who are taking on a world power ;sometimes they need the help of another world power to achieve their liberty

Well we haven't done that well in the middle eastern countries or South and Central American countries or African countries, so you're predicting better results in the Asian countries...or have you forgotten Viet Nam?

What was our goal in Vietnam ? It certainly wasn't supporting democracy .We supported strong men who were anti-communist It was to stop the spread of global communism that we went to war there . The NVs were supported by over 100,000 soldiers from China ,Russia and the NORKs . Communist Vietnam intervened into neighboring Laosand Cambodia until the late 1980s. Postwar Vietnam trained guerrillas and sent surplus weapons to, Algeria, Chile,and El Salvador in support of exporting their communist revolution. Ho Chi Minh organized and promoted revolutionsin southern China, northeastern Thailand, and British Malaya .The communist Vietnamese never thought of their revolution as an isolatedevent of national liberation ; rather, it was to be an integral component of world revolution.

What was our goal in Vietnam ? It certainly wasn't supporting democracy .We supported strong men who were anti-communist It was to stop the spread of global communism that we went to war there . The NVs were supported by over 100,000 soldiers from China ,Russia and the NORKs . Communist Vietnam intervened into neighboring Laosand Cambodia until the late 1980s. Postwar Vietnam trained guerrillas and sent surplus weapons to, Algeria, Chile,and El Salvador in support of exporting their communist revolution. Ho Chi Minh organized and promoted revolutionsin southern China, northeastern Thailand, and British Malaya .The communist Vietnamese never thought of their revolution as an isolatedevent of national liberation ; rather, it was to be an integral component of world revolution.

That's what I said Tom we lost.

That's what I said Tom we lost.yes you did and it wouldnt be the last time, wars you have engaged in since couldnt be scored as total success

What did you say Clete? I got busy counting my toes. Do you count the big toe twice?

What did you say Clete? I got busy counting my toes. Do you count the big toe twice?i dont know dont have six fingers on each hand and extry toes

Shhh! I keep losing count here!

Shhh! I keep losing count here!

You can count, did you learn that at school or college?

The College of Hard Knocks!

well it didn't take

well it didn't take

This talk about Civil War is just a lot of noise from the pro-Trump crowd. It's meant to deflect from the basic issue of Trump the greatest crook in American elective history.

The basic issue is will America keep following the lying cheating dufus down the road of division, hate and chaos.

The basic issue is will America keep following the lying cheating dufus down the road of division, hate and chaos.

What makes you think he is leading?

What makes you think he is leading?

His core group is crumbling at the edges as his incompetent murderous lack of leadership in the health crisis is becoming more and more obvious.

His core group is crumbling at the edges as his incompetent murderous lack of leadership in the health crisis is becoming more and more obvious.

Even the dufus doesn't think he's leading, but he'll never admit it. Easier to lie, cheat, and steal his way out of blame like he always has done. Or try!

Even the dufus doesn't think he's leading, but he'll never admit it. Easier to lie, cheat, and steal his way out of blame like he always has done. Or try!but you said people are following him how then do you say he is not leading, i think you are confused by your own rhetoric

He has a minority following of a shrinking hardcore base, and growing opposition, thanks to his horrendous response to this economy destroying virus and other antics.

I hear one of your warships is on fire, will Trump blame China for that?

Or Mexico, he probably hasn't been briefed yet.

You mean he hasn't seen it on twitter

He only reads his own tweets Clete.

well once again Trump has lashed China and has not deescalated, postponing further trade talks and sanctioning Hong Kong, So the message here is don't rebel

My take on this new foreign policy from the dufus is a bit different Clete since China is clearly changing Hong Kong from what it was under the UK, and on it's own.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53412598


He also told reporters he had signed the Hong Kong Autonomy Act, which passed unanimously in Congress earlier this month."This law gives my administration powerful new tools to hold responsible the individuals and the entities involved in extinguishing Hong Kong's freedom," Mr Trump told the news conference.

This is seen as a counter move to the Chinese imposed security measure.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-52765838

My take on this new foreign policy from the dufus is a bit different Clete since China is clearly changing Hong Kong from what it was under the UK, and on it's own.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53412598



This is seen as a counter move to the Chinese imposed security measure.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-52765838

The reality is that those rebelling arn't old enough to remember british rule and the situation in HK would have been intolerable for any government. Times change and the HK handover was done in different times

The reality is that those rebelling arn't old enough to remember british rule and the situation in HK would have been intolerable for any government. Times change and the HK handover was done in different times

By that reasoning, the Brits can return and re-claim the USA.

By that reasoning, the Brits can return and re-claim the USA.

No, that boat has sailed, they tried it once and decided it just wasn't worth the cost

An alliance works better than a conflict. DUHHH!

Yes and the people of HK have yet to learn that

They have been invaded.

Don't believe everything you hear in the media, they had months of demonstrations and lawlessness and the army wasn't sent in, they are now subject to a law which says you can't behave like that and you know what, if it had gone on in the US martial law would have been declared and people would have been killed, so get down off that pedestal before you fall down. HK is an excuse for Trump to screw the Chinese

You seem to having a problem separating the purpose of demonstrations from the lawless actions of some, so I respectfully submit it's the Chinese who are using the lawlessness as an excuse to suppress legitimate demonstrations for freedoms. The dufus and his ilk are trying that tactic also, making it about the criminals and not the purpose of the demonstrators.

Screw the dufus and the Chinese, or enjoy them screwing each other. 8O

the "peaceful demonstrators " have been infiltrated by radical Marxists who call themselves 'Black Lives 'Matter ' but are in fact mostly whites who were indoctrinated by the Weather Underground operative of the 1960s turned into college professors .

Here is the difference ... The patriots in Hong Kong are trying to prevent being forced into a life dictated by a communist tyranny .
The "peaceful protesters ' in the US are attempting to create a communist tyranny here is the US .

Here is yesterday when Chi Town cops were surrounded by "peaceful protesters " and pelted with bottles and fireworks .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCbrplVEkLE

Here in NY cops marching with a religious organization were attacked by "peaceful protesters " with bats as the police crossed the Brooklyn Bridge . Above and at NYC the cops did not fight back .

https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/surveillance-video-shows-bats-delivered-prior-to-brooklyn-bridge-assault/

In Hong Kong the cops club,chase and beat the protesters . That is another difference .

Hard to tell the difference between peaceful protestors and anarchists be they Americans or Chinese, but for sure the protestors message is lost and subverted in the confusion isn't it?

What's your solution to that as a confused conservative Tom?

What's your solution to that as a confused conservative Tom?
I was going to ask the same thing. Is there a better way? If so, what is it?

I'm not confused at all It is all clear cut Students of history have seen it all before. There is no difference between Maoists in China and the Marxist "peaceful protesters .
Cullors, 36, was the protégé of Eric Mann, former agitator of the Weather Underground domestic terror organization, and spent years absorbing the Marxist-Leninist ideology that shaped her worldview,
In 1968, Mann was a coordinator for Students for a Democratic Society, from which a more radical wing –- the Weather Underground — was splintered the following year.It was led by Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn, who called for “direct action” over civil disobedience, seeking the overthrow of the US government. In 1969, the FBI classified the group as a domestic terror organization.
Mann was eventually charged with assault and battery, disturbing the peace, damaging property, defacing a building and disturbing a public assembly, for which he spent 18 months behind bars.


“The first thing, I think, is that we actually do have an ideological frame. Myself and Alicia in particular are trained organizers,”“We are trained Marxists. We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories. "

https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/

Ironically the movement is advocating a return to slavery . As we have seen in Russia ,China ,and every other country that attempts to create a Marxist utopia ,the leaders become the masters and the rest of the people become enslaved .

Are you dodging the question? We agree that lawful protestors get infiltrated by groups with their own agendas, and wreck havoc. The question was telling them apart. Should you squash the freedom of the protestors to end the activities of the subversives?

It was easy to tell them apart . When the protests were against the brutality of the murder of George Floyd I had no beef with them . When it became open season on police and violent assault on police and civilian alike ; the indiscriminate destruction of property ,larceny , arson , indiscriminate toppling of statuary;the demands to defund the police and replace it with utopian visions of civil patrols that end up resembling the Chaz /Chop street justice (or now in NYC the Crypts v Bloods turf war ) rather than the kumbaya dancing through the tulips that All Out Crazy believes, then it stopped being about Floyd and it became a movement to overthrow our constitutional republic . And yes I think that is a superior 'better way' than what they are selling to us .

What's your solution to that as a confused conservative Tom?

I know how to best deal with criminals, but is that just an excuse not to address the protestors? China (And HK officials it seems) and the dufus seem to think so, do you?

I know how to best deal with criminals, Pick a city to run because clearly the Democrat mayors don't know how to deal with criminals .


but is that just an excuse not to address the protestors?
Not at all . The protestors issues are being addressed . Across the nation police tactics are being reformed to address the protesters concerns .


China (And HK officials it seems) and the dufus seem to think so, do you? I completely disagree with your comparing Trump to the Chinese and their invasion of Hong Kong . In Hong Kong it is the police attacking and beating the protesters . In the US it is the "peaceful protesters" assaulting the police and anyone else who gets in their way (how many murders were there is peaceful Chaz/Chop ? ).
On the rare cases where police have crossed the line dealing with the mobin the US they have been disciplined .Compare that to this .
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/06/hong-kong-police-violence-verified/ You guys fall into this false equivalency all the time .

I completely disagree with your comparing Trump to the Chinese and their invasion of Hong Kong .

singing from the Trump songbook again Tom, what invasion of HK? you can't invade your own country, a point lost on you, and there has been no "invasion". Law and order has been restored, although the fractious citizens of HK may have no intention of remaining calm. Even in the glorious democracy of the US violent demonstrations are frowned upon and put down. So open criticism of the government is not allowed in HK, there has been a little too much open criticism in the last year perhaps, thus the new law. HK was once, stress once, a British colony. A boil on the arse of progress to the Chinese who earnestly believe all of China is Chinese. I recall the same sentiments existed in the USA

Tom didn't instigate the invasion idea of HK, I did because the Chinese are "lawfully" reclaiming what was once theirs until the Brits took it. Obviously some don't like that idea for whatever reason, but China doesn't care, and that's the end of that story until they start enforcing the new rules they are imposing on HK. I compared it to the protestor getting popped by the unmarked cops in Portland and detaining another protestor while the locals wanted none of that from the feds. Comparison might be a stretch, but both examples of tyrannical governments in my book.

Tom didn't instigate the invasion idea of HK, I did because the Chinese are "lawfully" reclaiming what was once theirs until the Brits took it. Obviously some don't like that idea for whatever reason, but China doesn't care, and that's the end of that story until they start enforcing the new rules they are imposing on HK. I compared it to the protestor getting popped by the unmarked cops in Portland and detaining another protestor while the locals wanted none of that from the feds. Comparison might be a stretch, but both examples of tyrannical governments in my book.

It is interesting to note those rules weren't considered necessary until HK rebelled. If you had been to China you would know the grip of the central government is light handed where there is no dissent. I travelled through China and I saw only one soldier and the police weren't that obvious. I was only questioned once and only because my son upset an official. I wonder, in similiar circumstances, would our treatment have been so light handed in the US

the Chinese are "lawfully" reclaiming what was once theirs until the Brits took it. there was no unified China when the Brits colonized HK . So it was never the 'Chinese ' to own. Today the Han Chinese rule the nation . At the time of the Brit lease agreement it was the Quing Manchus . The Brits and the Quing signed a lease that gave British sovereignty until 1997 when it was transitioned to Chinese sovereignty .However the treaty agreement gave Hong Kong autonomy ( "one country, two systems" ). The Chinese are violating that with their new security laws and brutal crack down on dissenters .

wonder, in similiar circumstances, would our treatment have been so light handed in the US Here if you conduct yourself in a manner that doesn't require police interactions then you will have nothing to worry about. What did your son do to 'upset an official ' ?

there was no unified China when the Brits colonized HK . So it was never the 'Chinese ' to own. Today the Han Chinese rule the nation . At the time of the Brit lease agreement it was the Quing Manchus . The Brits and the Quing signed a lease that gave British sovereignty until 1997 when it was transitioned to Chinese sovereignty .However the treaty agreement gave Hong Kong autonomy ( "one country, two systems" ). The Chinese are violating that with their new security laws and brutal crack down on dissenters .

The British hagemony has ended, a fact the Chinese are aware of


Here if you conduct yourself in a manner that doesn't require police interactions then you will have nothing to worry about. What did your son do to 'upset an official ' ?

I'm not sure that is entirely correct, an australian woman was killed by a US police officer for no reason.

There was an security officer in the hotel lobby, he showed an interest in our passports and my son snatched his from him saying "give me that" the man fled into his office and we received a visit from the local police who checked our identity, etc and made sure we had entered our details correctly at registration, an explanation that my son was ill and we were only staying the night satisfied them

That incident is an outlier . The women's name is Justine Ruszczyk. The officer involved ,Mohamed Noor,is a Somali immigrant who joined the force. He refused to answer investigator's questions about the shooting . He later said during the trial that he feared for his life when she approached his patrol car so he fired the shot .
So to sum up ;it was a crime and he was convicted of the crime . After that the chief of police was ousted ,the mayor was voted out of office and the Minneapolis Police Dept , instituted mandatory body cams be turned on on all their officers .

That incident is an outlier

No, it isn't. It's far too common, as witness the all too frequent reports.

Police brutality is what sparked the 50 days and counting protests, and the underlying criminality directed at police. Half the jails are populated with nonviolent offenders while gangs rove the streets shooting at each other. Unless that is addressed with changing policies Tom then good luck wit that law and order stuff that is directed at the most vulnerable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States

Which starts out with school policies designed to keep those jails full.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School-to-prison_pipeline

So let's not pretend we don't know what conservatives and the dufus really mean about law and order. Chicago is a perfect example of the urban policies on gun control really accomplish as while Chicago has strict laws for sales, nobody in the surrounding area does so a few bucks for gas gets dope dealers and gangsters the guns they need to wage war with each other and cops. Now you cannot protect your own suburban white kids from young loons, nor have you tried, citing the right to bear arms so nothing can be done about them. You'd rather stop and frisk and profile black and brown men rather than stunt the flow of guns and drugs that flow through the poor neighborhoods with lousy revenue starved schools and you wonder what the protests are about and having no clue we return to the law and order tactics.

Yeah I bet those poor under sieged cops are quaking in their boots over the terrorism of a few while they have been terrorizing for generations. They haven't served and protected the communities so no wonder they get rocked for serving and protecting property that has become the symbol of oppression, suppression, exploitation, repression, terrorism, and atrocity.

You conservatives just ain't listening in your zeal to preserve your law and order. Naw, it's not deflection, or a distraction to bring up why this country is screwed up, you just refuse to take responsibility for it, and your dufus savior can't save you. So excuse me for broadening your horizons amidst attempts to focus narrowly on one thing and bad mouth the dems for it. You can no longer ignore that more than half the country ain't happy with the half that keeps the goodies all to themselves. In truth it ain't half, it's the few telling the many what their value is and rewarding accordingly. Wall Street and Big biz got bailed out during the disaster they caused, so it's simple bail out main street during this pandemic.

That's a good start and give that equal protection under the law to those abused by the system. That would stop the protests and we can round up those criminal loons you are so afraid of. You could get a lot of help if you stop criminalizing and impoverishing half the population and bad mouthing them.

That's no way to make America great.

That's no way to make America great.

It will be great when you do away with the police state it has become

Dump the dufus?

That won't solve the problem

It would sure be a step in the right direction though.

It might do something to lessen world tension, but it won't solve the lack of leadership

Yeah it will, don't be such a sourpuss America hater.

The only thing I hate about your country is it has lost its vision, and allows liars into leadership positions

We're kind of distracted over political, and social issues it seems. I wouldn't say we are lost, but have to make adjustments and course corrections of the huge changing (evolving) American experiment, limits progress forming a more perfect union.

Challenging to say the least.

We're kind of distracted over political, and social issues it seems. I wouldn't say we are lost, but have to make adjustments and course corrections of the huge changing (evolving) American experiment, limits progress forming a more perfect union.

Challenging to say the least.

You should forget the B/S of a perfect union and do something for the people

once again trump has escalated the friction with China, so are we in a new cold war?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-23/us-orders-china-shut-houston-consulate-deteriorating-relations/12482778

Not for a moment do I think esponage should go unchallenged, however, The US has a highly sophisticated esponage network through out the world so is this a case of the pot calling the kettle black?

You should forget the B/S of a perfect union and do something for the people

Aw, Clete, forming a more perfect union is for the people. It's a works in progress and ongoing. You know that but you don't quite get the melding of cultures and societies and the changing thereof.


once again trump has escalated the friction with China, so are we in a new cold war?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-23/us-orders-china-shut-houston-consulate-deteriorating-relations/12482778

Not for a moment do I think esponage should go unchallenged, however, The US has a highly sophisticated esponage network through out the world so is this a case of the pot calling the kettle black?

Ain't he a tough guy?

No just a neighbourhood bully

National bully would be a more apt description.

National bully would be a more apt description.

No he doesn't confine himself to any boundries, so he is all of these; neighbourhood, regional, national, international, sectarian, fanatical

And in trouble running for re election so far. People hate chronic liars and bullies.

And in trouble running for re election so far. People hate chronic liars and bullies.
Someone in the WH must have read him the riot act (ha, ha). He's trying real hard to be Mr. Nice Guy now. "Oh, the local school officials can decide about their schools reopening" and "Of course, we want to work with the mayors and city officials to bring an end to gang warfare and crime."

Someone in the WH must have read him the riot act (ha, ha). He's trying real hard to be Mr. Nice Guy now. "Oh, the local school officials can decide about their schools reopening" and "Of course, we want to work with the mayors and city officials to bring an end to gang warfare and crime."

embrace change, otherwise he may be replaced by Arnold again, and we know what a disaster he was for California