https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYoSjkSUEAITh-R?format=jpg&name=900x900

Believing what the dufus says is unwise without verification in the first place, and as far as self medicating, without a doctors script and care would be crazy on his part, but I have no doubt he could get a script easily, and he is surrounded by people dedicated toward doing what he says right, or wrong. Really disappointed with some of the data Dr. Birx presented Friday in regard to the charts and graphs, some BOGUS, but she was quite clear and emphatic about the uselessness of the dope the dufus is hocking, and the dangers it represents if abused.

The study in Lancet is flawed and it is a study and not a clinical trial .
First ;no zinc was used . The treatment regimen is Hydroxychloroquine , azithromycin, AND zinc.
Second; it's an anti-viral. It must be given early before the damage is done. Once the damage is done and you already have severe damage from the virus ,the Hydroxychloroquine treatment is less effective . Give it early, not as a last resort. I'm betting that the patients ;just like the VA study were already in serious condition in the ICU . I'm willing to bet that most of those with adverse reactions had other underlying conditions (comorbidities )

Trump's use as a preventive makes sense ;and I'm sure he was under his doctor's supervised care for what that is worth . BTW ,the VA administers about 42,000 doses of HCQ a day . It is regularly administered for lupus and Rheumatoid arthritis patients for years at a time ;as well as an anti-malarial . All those patients being poisoned .Imagine that ! .

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Trump's use as a preventive makes sense ;and I'm sure he was under his doctor's supervised care for what that is worth . BTW ,the VA administers about 42,000 doses of HCQ a day . It is regularly administered for lupus and Rheumatoid arthritis patients for years at a time ;as well as an anti-malarial . All those patients being poisoned .Imagine that ! .
HCQ is a recognized treatment for lupus and rheumatoid arthritis. Those patients aren't being poisoned. HCQ isn't a preventive med for Covid-19. In fact, there was a report earlier this week that a lupus patient who had been taking HCQ for ten years or so became ill with Covid-19. Oh, and Trump's personal physician refused to prescribe HCQ. Trump had to lean on a WH doctor to get it (and is HCQ what was REALLY prescribed???).

It's the lefts politics that is poisoning clinical research on the use for C-19 . It has been used for decades . If it was such a threat it would've been off the market a long time ago. https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=847483&page=8&p=3853200#post3853200

Nobody disputes the many uses of hydroxy, just not against covids. How hard is that to understand?

It's the lefts politics that is poisoning clinical research on the use for C-19 . It has been used for decades . If it was such a threat it would've been off the market a long time ago. https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=847483&page=8&p=3853200#post3853200

Please ask your doctor to prescribe it for you for a month, take it as prescribed, and let us know at the end of the month how you're doing.

as I mentioned before ,unless absolutely necessary I take no drugs . What I did do was once I was tested positive I went on a self managed regimen of high dose vitamin C ,D ,50 mg zinc sulfate ,And an extract of cinchona officinalis which is the bark that quinine is derived from .Yes I understand that there is a difference in the chemical composition between the bark extract and the synthetic derivative that we are talking about . But I will try the natural remedy every day before a human derived compound as a 1st resort . No science behind it . I think it did help reduce the amt of time I was downed by the virus .

The left cracks me up. It's all my body my choice when it comes to whacking a baby . I guess than doesn't apply when politics gets in the way of scientific research .

It's all my body my choice when it comes to whacking a baby . I guess than doesn't apply when politics gets in the way of scientific research .So true. It all comes down to, "what we want".

The left cracks me up. It's all my body my choice when it comes to whacking a baby . I guess than doesn't apply when politics gets in the way of scientific research .
Trump says it's his body, his choice when taking the hydroxy stuff. Too bad men can't get pregnant. Oh, would we hear the wails and see the lines form at PP!

The left cracks me up. It's all my body my choice when it comes to whacking a baby . I guess than doesn't apply when politics gets in the way of scientific research .

It's not politics getting in the way at all Tomder, the research is being done, but so far nothing has emerged as the real deal, but feel free to dope yourself anyway you want. People have always found a doctor for a script to whatever and they still can. Legality or ethics aside.

What cracks me up about the right is whatever the dufus says has you googoolala.

Trump says it's his body, his choice when taking the hydroxy stuff. Too bad men can't get pregnant. Oh, would we hear the wails and see the lines form at PP!Too bad that so many women no longer value the life that develops within them, a life that is altogether apart from their own body. Now it's just a bothersome little thing to be gotten rid of and thrown into the trash.

Too bad that so many women no longer value the life that develops within them, a life that is altogether apart from their own body. Now it's just a bothersome little thing to be gotten rid of and thrown into the trash.
Get pregnant, preferably by a rapist or your uncle or an abusive spouse. Tell me all about it, how you hate that misbegotten mass of cells growing inside you. Oh, that's right. You can't get pregnant. Your part is finished in less than five minutes, you smile, then walk away.

As someone once said, "If the Pope were a woman, abortion would have been routinely accepted beginning two thousand years ago".

Truer words were never spoken.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYvGfWDX0AYFTpF?format=jpg&name=large Sweep 'em under the rug and let me play through

Too bad that so many women no longer value the life that develops within them, a life that is altogether apart from their own body. Now it's just a bothersome little thing to be gotten rid of and thrown into the trash.

As opposed to being bothersome big things of little value to be cast aside when inconvenient?

Get pregnant, preferably by a rapist or your uncle or an abusive spouse. Tell me all about it, how you hate that misbegotten mass of cells growing inside you. Oh, that's right. You can't get pregnant. Your part is finished in less than five minutes, you smile, then walk away.Have you always lived in this fantasy world?

Have you always lived in this fantasy world?
You certainly live in one!

why does the argument between you two always come down to abortion, are you obsessed with the subject? Obviously one of you is opposed to it and the other for it and the lines are blurred

the lines are blurredThe lines are clear, but yes, WG is for abortion and I oppose it. That part is certainly correct.

"how you hate that misbegotten mass of cells growing inside you." For a professing Christian to refer to human life in those terms is just beyond incredible.

The lines are clear, but yes, WG is for abortion and I oppose it. That part is certainly correct.

"how you hate that misbegotten mass of cells growing inside you." For a professing Christian to refer to human life in those terms is just beyond incredible.
I disagree with abortion, but counseling at Catholic Charities opened my mind and taught me there are many variations to each pregnant woman's story.

Get pregnant, JL. Then we'll talk. You have NO clue.

there are many variations to each pregnant woman's story.Certainly there are, just like there are many variations to each woman's story who has a born child, but I would never suggest that killing the child is an acceptable solution, and I would hope I would never refer to any child as a hated, "misbegotten mass of cells".

There are many things in life you don't have to personally experience to know the rightness or wrongness of it. I've never had a relative murdered, but how foolish it would be for me to suggest that I have "NO clue" about that, or about cancer, or a painful injury, or divorce. I have not experienced those things. but I'm not going to say, "Well, I really have no opinion on cancer since, after all, I've never had that disease."

Why do you disagree with abortion? And as soon as I ask that question, I know you will not answer it.

Certainly there are, just like there are many variations to each woman's story who has a born child, but I would never suggest that killing the child is an acceptable solution, and I would hope I would never refer to any child as a hated, "misbegotten mass of cells".
What about all those kids separated from their families, thrown into cages, starved, and otherwise abused? Killing those born children was an acceptable solution?

There are many things in life you don't have to personally experience to know the rightness or wrongness of it. I've never had a relative murdered, but how foolish it would be for me to suggest that I have "NO clue" about that, or about cancer, or a painful injury, or divorce. I have not experienced those things. but I'm not going to say, "Well, I really have no opinion on cancer since, after all, I've never had that disease."
I have an idea! How about borrowing my aplastic anemia for nine months!

Why do you disagree with abortion? And as soon as I ask that question, I know you will not answer it.
If you're going to smart-off to me, nope, I won't answer. Be nice and ask me again.

What about all those kids separated from their families, thrown into cages, starved, and otherwise abused? Killing those children wasn't an acceptable solution?Of course it was not, if indeed it ever happened.

Why do you disagree with abortion?

Of course it was not, if indeed it ever happened.
Bwahahahahaha!!! There's your out -- "if indeed it ever happened"! Do you know anyone who's ever had an abortion? Ah! I didn't think so. Maybe it never happened.

Why do you disagree with abortion?
I'll answer your very respectfully stated question tomorrow. Bedtime now.

Do you know anyone who's ever had an abortion? Ah! I didn't think so. Maybe it never happened.I know two. They both regret it deeply.


Bwahahahahaha!!! There's your out.I have no idea what your point is. I do not support the killing of children, born or unborn. You do with the unborn, or as you describe it, "you hate that misbegotten mass of cells growing inside you."

I disagree with abortion, but counseling at Catholic Charities opened my mind and taught me there are many variations to each pregnant woman's story.

Get pregnant, JL. Then we'll talk. You have NO clue.
so you are both opposed to abortion why then the argy bargy. Abortion is morally indefensible, the long term effect on the woman is well known, it is just the hardness of heart that destroys the unborn

The real question is what do you intend to do about the choices that others make? Like this virus is forcing a choice, disrupt the economy, or ignore the sick and dying going on. What's the moral choice here? Is it morally right for a president to foist a medical opinion on a drug that has not been proven effective against this pandemic? Just couldn't go by the scientific protocols for such a proclamation.

You want to make a moral choice, then deal with the responsibility that comes with it.

so you are both opposed to abortionWe are?

The real question is what do you intend to do about the choices that others make? Like this virus is forcing a choice, disrupt the economy, or ignore the sick and dying going on.
That is a false choice . It is not either /or . You are creating greater health risks by leaving the economy closed . And clearly we can care for the sick ,protect the most vulnerable and still keep the country open . When we did not know enough about the virus it was a legitimate concern that the health care system could be overwhelmed by the sick . That is no longer the case . The goal was 'flatten the curve ' and that has been achieved . So there is no more legitimate reasons for a shutdown except to stroke the egos of governors and local yokel tin pot dictators Guidelines have been and are being established for an open economy with reasonable health protections . The virus has and will continue to go through the population until herd immunity is established with or without a vaccine .

That is a false choice . It is not either /or . You are creating greater health risks by leaving the economy closed . And clearly we can care for the sick ,protect the most vulnerable and still keep the country open . When we did not know enough about the virus it was a legitimate concern that the health care system could be overwhelmed by the sick . That is no longer the case . The goal was 'flatten the curve ' and that has been achieved . So there is no more legitimate reasons for a shutdown except to stroke the egos of governors and local yokel tin pot dictators Guidelines have been and are being established for an open economy with reasonable health protections . The virus has and will continue to go through the population until herd immunity is established with or without a vaccine .

Tom there is no such thing as herd immunity, it is a myth. The only way you might become immune, it is thus far unproven, is if you contract the virus. Shut down is not a good philosophy, but it has protected some individuals, for the first time in a long time money hasn't ruled

The day will come when people have to pay for all of this. There are no money trees growing behind the Congress, so the bill is going to come due at some point. One of these days we will have to pay for what we want, and also pay for what we wanted over the past few decades. This is heaven right now for pols who get to pass out money without worrying about taxes, but it will be hell when we find that we can no longer borrow money hand over fist.

That is a false choice . It is not either /or . You are creating greater health risks by leaving the economy closed . And clearly we can care for the sick ,protect the most vulnerable and still keep the country open . When we did not know enough about the virus it was a legitimate concern that the health care system could be overwhelmed by the sick . That is no longer the case . The goal was 'flatten the curve ' and that has been achieved . So there is no more legitimate reasons for a shutdown except to stroke the egos of governors and local yokel tin pot dictators Guidelines have been and are being established for an open economy with reasonable health protections . The virus has and will continue to go through the population until herd immunity is established with or without a vaccine .

Of course you're only speaking of NY, and where the virus first struck, but as it spreads and the locals as in Alabama start catching more cases, their systems are being overloaded as we speak. We still must adjust to these waves as we are trying to reopen, which no doubt will cause the rise in sicknesses and illnesses as people are desperate for rent money, stalled in trickle down malaise.

I have no idea what your point is. I do not support the killing of children, born or unborn. You do with the unborn, or as you describe it, "you hate that misbegotten mass of cells growing inside you."
The "you" refers to YOU, JL. I had said:

"[understood subject is YOU] Get pregnant, preferably by a rapist or your uncle or an abusive spouse. Tell me all about it, how you hate that misbegotten mass of cells growing inside you. Oh, that's right. You can't get pregnant. Your part is finished in less than five minutes, you smile, then walk away.

Tom there is no such thing as herd immunity, Then why is there no more small pox pandemics ?Then why did the SARS COV 1 of 2003 pandemic disappear ? It was much more lethal than C-19

Once enough of the population gets exposed through vaccines or previous infection then the rest of the population gets indirect protection . That is an undisputable scientific fact . The measles is highly contagious and herd immunity is not achieved until 95% is immune . But it still was achieved by vaccination . If C-19 mutates like the flu then we can not achieve herd immunity ... what then ? Shut down the word economy forever ? If it doesn't mutate then since it is not as contagious as the measles ,we are looking at probably 60% exposure before herd immunity .


for the first time in a long time money hasn't ruled I can't believe your disconnect . Money will be of paramount importance when the bills come due .


The day will come when people have to pay for all of this. There are no money trees growing behind the Congress, so the bill is going to come due at some point. One of these days we will have to pay for what we want, and also pay for what we wanted over the past few decades. This is heaven right now for pols who get to pass out money without worrying about taxes, but it will be hell when we find that we can no longer borrow money hand over fist.

What he said .

The "you" refers to YOU, JL. I had said:You were speaking for yourself, as well you should. I've never made such a sickening assertion.


for the first time in a long time money hasn't ruledI thought that was a strange statement as well.

You were speaking for yourself, as well you should. I've never made such a sickening assertion.
No, I wasn't, JL! And I never said you said that. If I had been speaking for myself, I would have used "I" and "me," not "you." Plus, this part is definitely directed toward you: "Oh, that's right. You can't get pregnant. Your part is finished in less than five minutes, you smile, then walk away."

And I never said you said that. If I had been speaking for myself, I would have used "I" and "me," not "you."Then who on earth were you referring to?

Even at that, to use this as a description of an unborn child is really chilling. "you hate that misbegotten mass of cells growing inside you." I don't think you actually see it that way, or at least I certainly hope not.

Still waiting for the promised explanation of why you "disagree" with abortion.

As to my "part" being finished in less than five minutes, my "part" is still going on, and our children are all over thirty years old. You are greatly mistaken, and seem to be greatly prejudiced against men. My amazing wife and I raised our children as a team.

Then who on earth were you referring to?
YOU!!!

Even at that, to use this as a description of an unborn child is really chilling. "you hate that misbegotten mass of cells growing inside you." I don't think you actually see it that way, or at least I certainly hope not.
Did you read what I had written??? It was referring to what pregnant you would have thought of the object now in your body because of the selfish activities of a rapist or your uncle or an abusive spouse.

Still waiting for the promised explanation of why you "disagree" with abortion.
The day ends at midnight.

As to my "part" being finished in less than five minutes, my "part" is still going on, and our children are all over thirty years old. You are greatly mistaken, and seem to be greatly prejudiced against men. My amazing wife and I raised our children as a team.
Nope, not prejudiced. Men have no clue about what goes on during those nine months. And if the pregnancy begins in hate and as a power struggle....

"Oh, that's right. You can't get pregnant. Your part is finished in less than five minutes, you smile, then walk away."Sure sounds prejudiced to me, and wildly incorrect.


It was referring to what pregnant you would have thought of the object now in your body because of the selfish activities of a rapist or your uncle or an abusive spouse.Maybe. Thankfully the vast majority of pregnancies do not start that way, and thankfully very few women who get abortions became pregnant due to abuse.

Maybe. Thankfully the vast majority of pregnancies do not start that way, and thankfully very few women who get abortions became pregnant due to abuse.
Yeah, and, according to your way of thinking, they wait until the ninth month, wake up one morning, and say, "Gee whiz, I really don't want a kid after all. I'll get rid of this and adopt a puppy instead."

according to your way of thinking, they wait until the ninth month, wake up one morning, and say, "Gee whiz, I really don't want a kid after all. I'll get rid of this and adopt a puppy instead."And once again, you're making things up. It's a dumb thought that I have never expresses or believed.

And once again, you're making things up. It's a dumb thought that I have never expresses or believed.
Probably not a puppy specifically, but you've indicated they say to themselves, "I wanna abortion for no good reason, just because I feel like it."

"I wanna abortion for no good reason, just because I feel like it."That is far removed from your original idea that they wait until the ninth month and then decide to have an abortion. At any rate, I'm sure many women have that exact sentiment of having an abortion simply because they want to, but certainly not all do. And yet one way or another, it is the destruction of human life that I object to. If not for that, then it would make no difference, but that truth makes an enormous difference. When we consider that they are dealing with human beings, then we must be greatly concerned. Human life has great worth.

That is far removed from your original idea that they wait until the ninth month and then decide to have an abortion.
Umm, it's the same idea.


Human life has great worth.
...especially when it's white and not poc trying to find refuge in our country.

Umm, it's the same idea.Uhm...only to you.


...especially when it's white and not poc trying to find refuge in another country.
Another foolish statement that did not come from me.

Another foolish statement that did not come from me.

Not so foolish. Maybe not from you, but clearly what Trump has been implying. Here are his words with help in understanding in parens.

"Immigrants from (white) Norway are acceptable and desired. Immigrants from (brown) south of the border countries not desired. Immigrants from (black) s***hole countries not desired".

Not so foolish. Maybe not from you, but clearly what Trump has been implyingYou say Trump has been implying that, and then you give a quote that is not accurate. Pitiful. You pulled several statements together, inserted your own thoughts, and attributed it to Trump. Hmmm. Did both of you attend the same class on making things up?

You say Trump has been implying that, and then you give a quote that is not accurate. Pitiful. You pulled several statements together, inserted your own thoughts, and attributed it to Trump. Hmmm. Did both of you attend the same class on making things up?

Did you graduate first in your class on How To Be An A**hole?

You got caught in a "fabrication", and so you need to call names? Pitiful. Don't blame your problems on me.

You got caught in a "fabrication", and so you need to call names? Pitiful. Don't blame your problems on me.

There was no fabrication, you moron.

That was exactly what Trump implied which was known by the whole world except, apparently, by you. I've tried to accommodate you, but it doesn't work. You're just too full of yourself.

The dufus wants it both ways, The minority vote, and the racists vote. He's made money off them both in the past, and probably hopes to in the future. He needs every vote he can get. This pandemic is screwing up his plans for sure. His reopening push a lot of people want so desperately may not save him if it doesn't work as advertised. Getting sick and dying is more a disincentive to workers as any money he can shell out to tide people through this virus.

The right wing trickle down ideology can't meet our needs in the short term, nor put out the growing hotspots and fires to come. Watch the debt and deficit folks heads explode in the weeks ahead. Don't laugh to hard though liberals, our turn comes rather quickly.

There was no fabrication, you moron.

That was exactly what Trump implied which was known by the whole world except, apparently, by you. I've tried to accommodate you, but it doesn't work. You're just too full of yourself.It always brings a smile to my face to see this. You get questioned, and so you get mad. Typical. You simply concocted a quote. That's why I never trust anything that comes from you because, after all, past history has been a good teacher. And then when you get caught, you get nasty.

I'm sure WG will be along any minute to point out your put-downs and shaming.

Love to dish the shade to those that hate to give it back don'tcha? Classic bully! You claim the dufus doesn't diss the minorities so you can ignore his racism, Mr. I don't now any racists who hides behind so called morality by questioning everybody else's.

Glad you blocked me, but can't stop me from pointing out the utter hypocrisy of your posts, devoid of facts, empathy, and honesty. In fact, you are as capable of some lowdown dirty cheap shots that the dufus you worship would be proud of as he sits atop your shoulders.

Of course you're proud of yourself and think you're entitled to blessings you can never earn or deserve. You ain't making no friend with that dufus style LIE about wanting an "HONEST" discussion. Try being honest with yourself, and the discussion can flow from there.

It always brings a smile to my face to see this. You get questioned, and so you get mad. Typical. You simply concocted a quote. That's why I never trust anything that comes from you because, after all, past history has been a good teacher. And then when you get caught, you get nasty.

I'm sure WG will be along any minute to point out your put-downs and shaming.
Athos is correct. Trump said all that. And worse.

January 11, 2018: Trump said on Twitter, "Haiti? Why do we want people from Haiti here?" Then they got Africa. 'Why do we want these people from all these sh!+hole countries here? We should have more people from places like Norway."

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re sending people that have lots of problems.They’re bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They’re rapists,” the future president said during his first-ever campaign speech (http://time.com/3923128/donald-trump-announcement-speech/) in 2015.

"Athos is correct." Your usual, utterly predictable reply. Athos could say the moon was made of cheese and you would agree with him. You three amigos stick together no matter what, since to disagree with a liberal dem would cause your world to fall apart.

Those are all quotes from what people reported Trump said in private meetings. As the article said, "President Trump reportedly referred to Haiti and countries in Africa as 'hole countries.'" But at least you gave an honest rendition of the supposed quote. Athos put his own meaning into it which made it even less accurate than it would have been.

The article linked below went on to say, "The White House went on to say Trump wants immigrants who can 'contribute to our society, grow our economy and assimilate into our great nation.'” There is no reference to race there. Now a person can state their own prejudiced view that Trump was referring to race if they want to, but no one has to accept it.

Still waiting on your condemnation of his put-downs and shaming which you profess to care so much about. Just want to see if you apply your ethical standards evenly.

Midnight came and went with no reply. Ask me if I'm surprised.

https://www.vox.com/2018/1/11/16880750/trump-immigrants-hole-countries-norway

Those are all quotes from what people reported Trump said in private meetings. As the article said, "President Trump reportedly referred to Haiti and countries in Africa as 'hole countries.'" But at least you gave an honest rendition of the supposed quote. Athos put his own meaning into it which made it even less accurate than it would have been.
And Athos explained that with his preface, "clearly what Trump has been implying. Here are his words with help in understanding in parens."

The article linked below went on to say, "The White House went on to say Trump wants immigrants who can “contribute to our society, grow our economy and assimilate into our great nation.” There is no reference to race there. Now a person can state their own prejudiced view that Trump was referring to race if they want to, but no one has to accept it.
What color is the preponderance of people who live in Haiti, who live in Africa, who live south of our border? What is the predominant color of people who live in Norway?

It will be poc who clean your hospital or nursing home room, wipe your butt, roll you over in bed when you have no strength to do it yourself, draw your blood for a CBC, check your bp and oxygen saturation, bring you meal trays when you're bedbound and even feed you if necessary, respond to your call light or to your frantic shouts, tell you amusing stories about their children or pets, hoping that will relieve your ennui.

Still waiting on your condemnation of his put-downs and shaming which you profess to care so much about. Just want to see if you apply your ethical standards evenly.
See above. Athos gives as he has been given.

Midnight came and went with no reply. Ask me if I'm surprised.
It was either you or Memorial Day food preparation. Guess which won?

What color is the preponderance of people who live in Haiti, who live in Africa, who live south of our border? What is the predominant color of people who live in Norway?People like you, who are hung up on race, would think that way. I don't. I view it as who would be more likely to be a responsible contributor to our culture, a person from highly successful Norway, or someone from exceedingly underachieving Haiti or Uganda. I don't really agree with that philosophy, but Trump's comments, if indeed he made them, could just as easily be taken that way unless, of course, you are hung up on race in the way you are.


It will be poc who clean your hospital or nursing home room, wipe your butt, roll you over in bed when you have no strength to do it yourself, draw your blood for a CBC, check your bp and oxygen saturation, bring you meal trays when you're bedbound and even feed you if necessary, respond to your call light or to your frantic shouts, tell you amusing stories about their children or pets, hoping that will relieve your ennui.Read again my first comment.


See above. Athos gives as he has been given.See comment above about the three amigos. Must be terrible to be so committed to a political philosophy that it overrides your true sense of morality. At least I don't have to pay any attention to your future protests. Since you don't apply them equally, then they ring exceedingly hollow.


It was either you or Memorial Day food preparation. Guess which won?
If the past is any indication, and it usually is, then an explanation will not be forthcoming. Don't worry about it. I never expected it anyway.

Take off your blinders dude! To judge others by the lens of your morality, and ignore the dufus is not balanced or productive. Is that just an ideological bias? I expect no answer, but know you're reading this.

Take off your blinders dude! to judge others by the lens of your morality... and ignore the dufus is not balanced or productive.
That's why JL believes women shouldn't get abortions. His reasoning: "You can't do that! It's against my religion!"

His reasoning: "You can't do that! It's against my religion!"Yet another completely foolish comment made by you but attributed to me. You are embarrassing yourself.

Even at that, I can explain my objection to abortion unlike you. And to top it off, you dismiss religious beliefs as a valid moral base.

Yet another completely foolish comment made by you but attributed to me. You are embarrassing yourself.
I said your reasoning, not your comment. Prove to me that your religious beliefs have everything to do with preventing a woman who doesn't share your beliefs from getting an abortion.

Even at that, I can explain my objection to abortion unlike you. And to top it off, you dismiss religious beliefs as a valid moral base.
Your religious beliefs do not control anyone else. They control only you.

I said your reasoning, not your comment. Prove to me that your religious beliefs have everything to do with preventing a woman who doesn't share your beliefs from getting an abortion.No, no little Miss Evasion. You're on the hook right now. Do what you said you would do (and then didn't) yesterday. For once be a woman of courage. Why do you "disagree" with abortion?

And btw, it was YOUR comment, so you have to own it. It was not my reasoning, so you were off base on all counts.

WG has stated her abortion position so many times we all know it by heart. Why do you keep insisting on asking the same abortion question over and over again?

What could be your purpose? What is it about WG's position you just don't understand?

WG has stated her abortion position so many times we all know it by heart. Why do you keep insisting on asking the same abortion question over and over again?

What could be your purpose? What is it about WG's position you just don't understand?
Thanks, tal. I'm putting together as simple and straightforward answer as possible so JL will comprehend.

Thanks, tal. I'm putting together as simple and straightforward answer as possible so JL will comprehend.You said you would answer on Sunday, but I am patiently waiting. Just bear in mind that the question is, "Why do you 'disagree' with abortion?"

I do appreciate "simple and straightforward." To this point you have offered nothing, so it does sound like progress. You can, of course simply decline to answer. I understand your hesitancy, or at least I think I do.

You said you would answer on Sunday, but I am patiently waiting. Just bear in mind that the question is, "Why do you 'disagree' with abortion?"

I do appreciate "simple and straightforward." To this point you have offered nothing, so it does sound like progress. You can, of course simply decline to answer. I understand your hesitancy, or at least I think I do.
You have no clue about my "hesitancy." It turned out I was very busy over the weekend with cooking and cleaning, especially preparing for our family's Memorial Day observation yesterday.

My family comes first, even before you. But yes, I jotted down my thoughts as I cooked and cleaned.

Wisely done.

Wisely done.
Stop traffic! Sound the trumpets! Organize a parade! JL complimented me! I weep for joy!

It does happen from time to time. 8D

A little humor to start the day. (I know...sentence fragment.)

https://scontent.fmem1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t45.1600-4/cp0/q75/spS444/p180x540/97184290_23844686776690473_1020355621028888576_n.j pg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=67cdda&_nc_ohc=JxYkrv7FxtMAX9xEfRo&_nc_ht=scontent.fmem1-1.fna&oh=d1f3a607f428e94d49b146c0f9495a63&oe=5EF4E996

No, that happens when you work for capitalist who pays minimum wage

But the happy thing is, when you work for a capitalist, then you are free to enhance your job worth and then change to working for another capitalist who pays better. Economic freedom is a great thing.

Yes many are enjoying the benefits now in a CV19 economy, how's it working out over there?

So if we were socialists there would be no virus? That's a strange perspective that has no bearing on capitalism.

Not everyone has the same opportunity to make Mo'Money with another capitalists and it takes a long time to even move up with the capitalists you work for, but some do for sure, but many work more than one job as a necessity, if they can, if they have the tools and support systems in place to do so. In this present virus environment though nearly everyone who cannot work from home is challenged just for the basics. Tough choices indeed for most of us, and that cannot be dismissed or blamed in an effort to adapt and adjust to these new challenges.

While we are still launching rockets, those meat packing plants are still dealing with the effects of this virus as sickness and death rises, and the essentials are being strain to their capacities.

I don't care what anyone says there's a hungry shark in the waters and expecting people to ignore that is a bit assinine. Now in some countries the society is built on doing as they are told without question, but here there is no such thing as obey without question and we as a society question everything and bristle at commands so we can only suggest a general course of action in which many will disregard.

Just one difference that our freedoms work against us in a climate where leaders are MISLEADING, and the flock gets separated for slaughter. Not mentioning any names but I'm sure we all know of the dufus that I speak of and his sheeple. Yes we have the freedom to be sheeple, because we all are dependent on capitalists to trickle us some capital to survive.

many work more than one job as a necessitySo? I've done that myself. It's still the glory of free enterprise. Look around at what even poor people in America have. Cars, cell phones, plenty to eat, air conditioning, televisions and so forth are all found in their possession. Amazing!!


because we all are dependent on capitalists to trickle us some capital to survive.You were free all of your life to get out and start a business, putting in the sixty or seventy hours a week which that requires. You chose not to. I know people who have done that, and they were not all successful. It's risky. You chose not to take the risk, and I did as well. That's fine, but you won't catch me whining about the people who get out there and work their tails off in order to reach that point. We should both be appreciative. They pay nearly all of the income tax, and they provide most of the jobs. And you complain???

Not a complaint just an observation. Not everybody can walk into a bank or funding institution for that seed money they may not have, and while they may have a phone or TV, they are hard pressed to get around with an old car or public transportation, have little or no insurance and affordable rent can be scarce, and forget affordable day car on those low wages and long hours. Now a lot of folks have family support, but many do not, and it doesn't take much at all for a disruption to change everything in such a fragile circumstance, so you can imagine the very real dire straits of ordinary people who were working very hard to keep their heads above water as it was. Hard to imagine such a large number of people left out of the great economy, since as a general thing they don't complain or raise hell when the price of eggs, milk, and rent and heat go up. They make due and keep on going. Whose listening any way?

Whose listening now? Surely not the ones who are benefitting the most, and not even the well to do caught up in paying the bills for that decent house and neighborhood and a cable bill. Or the ones driving the newest biggest truck and looking to trade it in for one with even more bells and whistles. Much easier to blame the working poor than work to eliminate the poverty which dogs us all. YUP no telling when a trickle down capitalists will save money by cutting YOUR check, and investing in a robot, or a foreign worker who thinks a bowl of rice a day is a great living.

We may claim to have the best system in the world, but this virus has taught us things can change really fast even for the big dog on the block. Will we learn and work to do better? Not so far we have not. Chances are it gets worse before we get a chance to get back what we had.

This is a life changing event, and complaints won't change it at all.

Not a complaint just an observation.Fair enough.


We may claim to have the best system in the world, but this virus has taught us things can change really fast even for the big dog on the block. Will we learn and work to do better? Not so far we have not. Chances are it gets worse before we get a chance to get back what we had.You might very well be right about that. And when the bill comes due, it's going to look even darker than it does now.

If we cannot figure out a way to manage our economy, debts included, then we need better managers. I see this as an opportunity to get better, a challenge so to speak, to make good on all that glory talk we've been doing since the last world war!

I agree it's put up or shut up time, unless you're afraid of the dark.

I see this as an opportunity to get better, a challenge so to speak, to make good on all that glory talk we've been doing since the last world war!

Never let a crisis go to waste .

Going deeper into already titanic debt with no end in sight is never an opportunity to get better.

Never let a crisis go to waste .

Well trump hasn't let this one go to waste, he has accused china of a clandestine attack on the US, he has spent trillions, although it is not clear on what, he has closed borders, alienated other nations and been fact checked on twitter

https://www.commonsenseevaluation.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/all-in-this-together.png?fbclid=IwAR3J2BYUrYTUEx7oraAizOeQ6uUv BDQvkCmLnVS0qP48KugmNCPKjUqtNcA

you just woke up?

You just start reading?

No I'm selective

Never let a crisis go to waste .

Especially if it damages the opposition. Politics 101


Well trump hasn't let this one go to waste, he has accused china of a clandestine attack on the US, he has spent trillions, although it is not clear on what, he has closed borders, alienated other nations and been fact checked on twitter

Politics 101, when the opposition self destructs, let them and make an ad.


https://www.commonsenseevaluation.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/all-in-this-together.png?fbclid=IwAR3J2BYUrYTUEx7oraAizOeQ6uUv BDQvkCmLnVS0qP48KugmNCPKjUqtNcA

Corona is what's disrupting American life, and even politicians capitalists liberals and conservatives are pretty much helpless to stop it. Even replacing all the politicians corona19 would be kicking everybody's butt.

In some ways that's true, but I'll tell you this. Once we return to the place of having to actually pay for what we want, then you won't see these kinds of thoughtless shut-downs of the economy.

well we agree on one thing, the shutdowns were a knee jerk reaction

Made easier by the belief that borrowed money is as good as tax revenues.

Wonder what a better plan would have been? I don't think reopening amid rising sickness and death is a long term solution either. There seems to be slow responses in some areas just becoming hotspots, and maybe some can ignore the mass graves without funerals and the freezer trucks behind hospitals and undertakers running out of caskets in NY, but that can happen any place in America.

So I ask what would be a more effective plan to curb the sickness and deaths that this virus has brought us? I can understand the Aussie response being different than ours Clete, but our numbers are just that much greater than yours.

Wonder what a better plan would have been? I don't think reopening amid rising sickness and death is a long term solution either. There seems to be slow responses in some areas just becoming hotspots, and maybe some can ignore the mass graves without funerals and the freezer trucks behind hospitals and undertakers running out of caskets in NY, but that can happen any place in America.

So I ask what would be a more effective plan to curb the sickness and deaths that this virus has brought us? I can understand the Aussie response being different than ours Clete, but our numbers are just that much greater than yours.
Ask yourself; could things have been worse if the economy had stayed open and some normal precautions taken? 100,000 deaths, things couldn't be much worse. What numbers are you speaking of? infections? deaths? yes certainly worse, but our experience is different. many infections here came from returning travellers, there has been no community infections to speak of. We did the shutdown thing, panicked by the "science" and it all came to very little, but the damage to the economy is enormous. What is different here is we don't live so tightly packed together and we don't have the poor problem you have. So universal health care gave better outcomes but political B/S did the damage anyway. The H1N1 strains will kill more people even with an effective vaccine, even the bush fire smoke killed more people so shutdown was just a political exercise

Ask yourself; could things have been worse if the economy had stayed open and some normal precautions taken?

I don't know what normal precautions, is but there are no normal treatments for this virus that are effective so far, and spreads rapidly, and is spreading even as we do the reopening thing, so yes I think things would be much worse had the economy stayed open, and we will know the effects of reopening soon enough.

It's not just our response here Clete, but the whole world, and while some may say that keeping people home was an over reaction, that may have been the one thing we could do to slow the spread of the virus at the expense of economic disruption. I see even more disruptions with the economy as people go about business as usual and sickness and death are spread further and faster.

It's not like it's gone away here and it's over, and we conquered the thing.

We need to look at Japan. They, for the most part, did not shelter in place and yet had relatively good success with the virus.

I don't know what normal precautions, is but there are no normal treatments for this virus that are effective so far, and spreads rapidly, and is spreading even as we do the reopening thing, so yes I think things would be much worse had the economy stayed open, and we will know the effects of reopening soon enough.

It's not just our response here Clete, but the whole world, and while some may say that keeping people home was an over reaction, that may have been the one thing we could do to slow the spread of the virus at the expense of economic disruption. I see even more disruptions with the economy as people go about business as usual and sickness and death are spread further and faster.

It's not like it's gone away here and it's over, and we conquered the thing.

I think in hindsight you have a population with more potential medical problems, some of it is genetic, some lifestyle and it hit you in winter. Business as usual has little to do with it, people got to eat, got to shelter and to do that they need money. All the science can't account for lack of money

Several East Asian nations that performed well against the virus had several things in common, the most important being how quickly they reacted against Covid-19.

In contrast, Trump's administration did nothing after many early warnings with Trump going so far as calling it a hoax when the virus was demonstrably reaching pandemic proportions. His delay of up to two months has resulted in 37,000 deaths according to epidemiologists.

Trump continues to mismanage the crisis by ineffective and absent leadership.

how quickly they reacted against Covid-19.What did they do? Japan is not sheltering in place nor have they closed down their economy, so what did they do that was so effective that we somehow missed?

What did they do? Japan is not sheltering in place nor have they closed down their economy, so what did they do that was so effective that we somehow missed?
From Wikipedia:
The Japanese government has adopted various measures to prevent and mitigate the outbreak. On 30 January (Trump held a campaign rally), Prime Minister Shinzo Abe (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinzo_Abe) established a national task force (https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%96%B0%E5%9E%8B%E3%82%B3%E3%83%AD%E3%83%8A%E3%8 2%A6%E3%82%A4%E3%83%AB%E3%82%B9%E6%84%9F%E6%9F%93% E7%97%87%E5%AF%BE%E7%AD%96%E6%9C%AC%E9%83%A8) to oversee the government's response to the pandemic.[7] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Japan#cite_note-:10-8) On 27 February (Trump hailed his administration’s handling of the coronavirus saying “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.”) Shinzo Abe requested the temporary closure of all Japanese elementary, junior high, and high schools until early April.[8] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Japan#cite_note-kyodo_0227-9) As the pandemic became a concern for the 2020 Summer Olympics (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Summer_Olympics), the Japanese government and the International Olympic Committee (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Olympic_Committee) negotiated its postponement until 2021.[9] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Japan#cite_note-10) On 7 April, Abe proclaimed a one-month state of emergency (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_emergency) for Tokyo and the prefectures of Kanagawa (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanagawa_Prefecture), Saitama (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saitama_Prefecture), Chiba (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiba_Prefecture), Osaka (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_Prefecture), Hyogo (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hy%C5%8Dgo_Prefecture), and Fukuoka (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukuoka_Prefecture).[10] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Japan#cite_note-11) On 16 April, the declaration was extended to the rest of the country for an indefinite period.[11] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Japan#cite_note-416emergency-12)

Japan is one of those countries that wear face masks for colds and allergies and have for years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Japan

They closed schools like we did. They declared a state of emergency and put together a council. Fine and dandy. They did not, for most of the country, shelter in place. They did not shut down much of their economy. So my question remains, what did they do that seemed to be effective? They have had 882 deaths which is really a dramatic difference. They are stacked on top of each other, moreso by far than we are. What made the difference?


On 30 January (Trump held a campaign rally), Prime Minister Shinzo Abe (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinzo_Abe) established a national task force (https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%96%B0%E5%9E%8B%E3%82%B3%E3%83%AD%E3%83%8A%E3%8 2%A6%E3%82%A4%E3%83%AB%E3%82%B9%E6%84%9F%E6%9F%93% E7%97%87%E5%AF%BE%E7%AD%96%E6%9C%AC%E9%83%A8) to oversee the government's response to the pandemic.You are aware that Trump established our task force on the 29th of January, so one day earlier than Abe did? So you'll give him an "atta-boy" for that, I'm sure?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Coronavirus_Task_Force

They closed schools like we did. They declared a state of emergency and put together a council. Fine and dandy. They did not, for most of the country, shelter in place. They did not shut down much of their economy. So my question remains, what did they do that seemed to be effective? They have had 882 deaths which is really a dramatic difference. They are stacked on top of each other, moreso by far than we are. What made the difference?
Face masks are not unknown in that country. Touching (handshakes, hugging, kissing, etc.) is not done; instead bowing to each other is the rule. The Japanese I've known are superclean and scrupulous about hygiene.

From Wikipedia:
By February 25, they established contact tracing and determined the high-risk environments include 1) closed spaces with poor ventilation; (2) crowded places with many people nearby; and (3) close-contact settings such as close-range conversations.[196] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Japan#cite_note-197)

To reduce person-to-person contact, the government has instructed the public to refrain from going to high-risk environments (the Three Cs: closed spaces, crowded places, and close-contact settings) and events involving movement between different areas of the country.[197] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Japan#cite_note-mhlw_0517-198) It emphasized extreme caution when coming in contact with the elderly. The government also promoted such work-style reforms as teleworking and staggering commuting hours, while improving the country's distance learning infrastructure for children.

You might have missed this from me. "You are aware that Trump established our task force on the 29th of January, so one day earlier than Abe did? So you'll give him an "atta-boy" for that, I'm sure?"

I wonder if the democratic mayor of New York City and the democratic governor of New York state did those things by 2/25?

You might have missed this from me. "You are aware that Trump established our task force on the 29th of January, so one day earlier than Abe did? So you'll give him an "atta-boy" for that, I'm sure?"

I wonder if the democratic mayor of New York City and the democratic governor of New York state did those things by 2/25?
Trump never followed through; Abe did.

We don't have to wonder we can look it up and compare.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_New_York_(state)


Trump never followed through; Abe did.

A very crucial point.

I wonder if the democratic mayor of New York City and the democratic governor of New York state did those things by 2/25?

They were telling us to attend Chinese New Year events ;St Patrick Day parades ,ride the subways ,go to restaurants and plays . Mid March Bolshevik Bernie was planning on keeping the schools open until the teachers actually began a mutiny.

As for the Democrats ? The whole month of January their only concern was trying to convict Trump on the phony impeachments charges the Dems concocted before the new year . The House of Reps only took up the matter of the virus the 1st week of February .
I'll put the timeline on this posting too:

January 3 CDC Director Robert Redfield sent an email to the director of the Chinese CDC, George Gao, formally offering to send U.S. experts to China to investigate the coronavirus.
CDC Director Redfield sent another email to the Chinese CDC Director, George Gao, formally offering to send U.S. experts to China to investigate the coronavirus outbreak,Jan 6 CDC issued a travel notice on Wuhan, China, before any U.S. infection arose.

Jan 6 CDC issued a travel notice on Wuhan, China, before any U.S. infection arose.

The CDC established a coronavirus incident management system to better share and respond to information about the virus.


Jan 17 CDC began enhanced screening for COVID-19 symptoms at three U.S. airports, in San Francisco, Los Angeles and New York's JFK. U.S. infections: Zero.



Jan 20CDC opened an emergency operations center after one U.S. COVID-19 patient was diagnosed.Dr. Fauci announces the National Institutes of Health is already working on the development of a vaccine for the coronavirus.

Jan 21 CDC expanded COVID-19 checks to airports in Chicago and Atlanta.CDC activated its emergency operations center to provide ongoing support to the coronavirus response.

January 21The CDC sought a “special emergency authorization” from the FDA to allow states to use its newly developed coronavirus test.

Jan 20 Trump tweeted that he made an offer to President Xi Jinping to send experts to China to investigate the coronavirus outbreak.CDC issued a level III travel health notice urging Americans to avoid all nonessential travel to China due to the coronavirus.


Jan 29 Trump creates the coronavirus task force

Jan 31One day after the WHO declared COVID-19 a “Public Health Emergency of International Concern,” Trump restricted travel from China. Quid pro Joe this policy “hysterical xenophobia.” CDC began the first mandatory quarantines since the 1960s. Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar declared “a public health emergency in the United States.”

Feb 2CDC added Honolulu, Seattle and Dulles airports to those already screening travelers from China.

Feb 4 FDAallowed emergency use of CDC’s COVID-19 test in non-CDC labs. “My administration will take all necessary steps to safeguard our citizens from” COVID-19, Trump said in his State of the Union address.

Feb 5White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney and Secretary Azar briefed lawmakers on COVID-19. “Several House lawmakers of both parties said the administration has the situation under control,” the Seattle Times reported.







The House Foreign Affairs Committee held a hearing on “The Wuhan Coronavirus.” This was the first time that either House of Congress addressed this . They were all too preoccupied trying to convict Trump.

Feb 6CDC began shipping CDC-Developed test kits for the 2019 Coronavirus to U.S. and international labs.


Feb 9Trump’s Coronavirus Task Force briefed the states' chief executives at the National Governors Association Meeting.

Feb 11HHS expanded collaboration with Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen Research & Development division to produce a COVID-19 vaccine.

Feb 12 The U.S. shipped test kits for the 2019 novel coronavirus to approximately 30 countries who lacked the necessary reagents and other materials.

Feb 14CDC began working with five labs to conduct “community-based influenza surveillance” to study and detect the spread of coronavirus.



Feb 18
HHS offered expertise and funds to help Sanofi Pasteur develop a COVID-19 vaccine and treatments.




Feb 26 Trump assigned VP Mike Pence to lead the administration’s COVID-19 response.

Feb 24The Trump Administration sent a letter to Congress requesting at least $2.5 billion to help combat the spread of the coronavirus.

Feb 29FDA let LabCorp, Quest, and other diagnosticians develop COVID-19 tests and liberated states to engage some 2,000 such laboratories. The administration discouraged travel to parts of South Korea and Italy and restricted arrivals from Iran.

March 3CDC lifted federal restrictions on coronavirus testing to allow any American to be tested for coronavirus, “subject to doctor’s orders.”

March 4The Trump Administration announced the purchase of approximately 500 million N95 respirators over the next 18 months to respond to the outbreak of the novel coronavirus.Secretary Azar announced that HHS was transferring $35 million to the CDC to help state and local communities that have been impacted most by the coronavirus.



March 6Trump signed $8.3 billion in COVID-19 response funds approved by both Houses of Congress on March 4 .

March 10Trump and Pence met with top health insurance companies and secured a commitment to waive co-pays for coronavirus testing.

March 11 Trump restricts travel from Europe .

March 13, Trump proclaimed a national emergency, unleashed $42 billion, forgave student-loan interest; deregulated telemedicine, interstate medical practice and the hiring of physicians at hospitals; and persuaded Costco, Walmart and other retailers to launch drive-thru COVID-19 tests. FDA let Roche and Thermo Fisher produce COVID-19 tests.HHS announced funding for the development of two new rapid diagnostic tests, which would be able to detect coronavirus in approximately 1 hour.

March 15HHS announced it is projected to have 1.9 million COVID-19 tests available in 2,000 labs this week.Google announced a partnership with the Trump Administration to develop a website dedicated to coronavirus education, prevention, & local resources.
All 50 states were contacted through FEMA to coordinate “federally-supported, state-led efforts” to end coronavirus

March 16 Trump Announced that the first potential vaccine for coronavirus has entered a phase one trial in a record amount of time. Announced “15 days to slow the spread” coronavirus guidance.The FDA announced it was empowering states to authorize tests developed and used by labs in their states.Asst. Secretary for Health confirmed the availability of 1 million coronavirus tests, and projected 2 million tests available the next week and 5 million the following.

March 17The Department of Defense announced it will make available to HHS up to five million respirator masks and 2,000 ventilators.

March 18Trump signed the Families First Coronavirus Response Act, which provides free testing and paid sick leave for workers impacted by the coronavirus.He also temporarily closed the US Canada border to non-essential travel. He also announced that he plansto invoke the Defense Production Act .Also FEMA activated in every region at its highest level of response .The U.S. Navy will deploy USNS Comfort and USNS Mercy hospital ships. All foreclosures and evictions will be suspended for a period of time.HHS temporarily suspended a regulation that prevents doctors from practicing across state lines.

March 19Pence announced tens of thousands of ventilators have been identified that can be converted to treat patients.The State Department issued a global level 4 health advisory, telling Americans to avoid all international travel due to coronavirus.Trump directed FEMA to take the lead on the Federal Government’s coronavirus response

March 20Secretary Azar sent a letter to all 50 Governors that the federal government is buying and making available 200,000 testing swabs

Trump never followed through; Abe did.Wake up. Read Tom's post.

No one has yet posted what the Japanese did that enabled them to do so well. Take out the typical, predictable anti-Trump rhetoric, and there was basically nothing.

Wake up. Read Tom's post.

No one has yet posted what the Japanese did that enabled them to do so well. Take out the typical, predictable anti-Trump rhetoric, and there was basically nothing.
YOU wake up! Reread my post #104.

Heck, I'll repost it here:

Face masks are not unknown in that country. Touching (handshakes, hugging, kissing, etc.) is not done; instead bowing to each other is the rule. The Japanese I've known are superclean and scrupulous about hygiene.

From Wikipedia:
By February 25, they established contact tracing and determined the high-risk environments include 1) closed spaces with poor ventilation; (2) crowded places with many people nearby; and (3) close-contact settings such as close-range conversations.[196] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Japan#cite_note-197)

To reduce person-to-person contact, the government has instructed the public to refrain from going to high-risk environments (the Three Cs: closed spaces, crowded places, and close-contact settings) and events involving movement between different areas of the country.[197] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Japan#cite_note-mhlw_0517-198) It emphasized extreme caution when coming in contact with the elderly. The government also promoted such work-style reforms as teleworking and staggering commuting hours, while improving the country's distance learning infrastructure for children.

Wake up. Read Tom's post.

No one has yet posted what the Japanese did that enabled them to do so well. Take out the typical, predictable anti-Trump rhetoric, and there was basically nothing.

Sorry I forgot you can't read links and forgive me for typing as little as possible given circumstance, but it would seem the Japanese are more experienced and disciplined, in better health and have a far superior health infrastructure with less people. WG referenced the dufus once comparing him to Abe, and should be noted the dufus was delivering lip service while Abe and other leaders were actually doing stuff in coordination with his locals.

Our state governors were left to their own devices pretty much, so the difference seems to be the coordinated NATIONAL response as opposed to our individual state actions. Comparing any individual state to countries is apple to oranges in this situation. I haven't seen anybody emerge with a great outcome and it's rather early to give out gold stars for success at this point. So far though some have done better than others and everyone is too unique to fairly compare.

The "wake up" referred to your silly assertion that Trump never followed through, an assertion that Tom's post clearly refutes.

The "wake up" referred to your silly assertion that Trump never followed through, an assertion that Tom's post clearly refutes.
Nope, Trump hasn't followed through. He's been too busy selling himself and acting like a fool.

March 22:
Reporter: "What do you say to Americans who are scared. Nearly 200 dead, 14,000 sick, millions scared."
Trump: "I say you are a terrible reporter, that's what I say."

Darned federalist ideology...states rule. That's as un-unifying as it gets! Throw in incompetence surrounded by incompetence and here we are.

Darned federalist ideology...states rule. That's as un-unifying as it gets! throw in incompetence surrounded by incompetence and here we are.

Now there you have the nub of it, an uncoordinated response

Dude is trying to get re elected and stay out of jail, so expect him to swing for the fences any way he can. Give the fool some more happy pills.

Nope, Trump hasn't followed through. He's been too busy selling himself and acting like a fool.

Really? Well, to repeat.

January 3 CDC Director Robert Redfield sent an email to the director of the Chinese CDC, George Gao, formally offering to send U.S. experts to China to investigate the coronavirus.
CDC Director Redfield sent another email to the Chinese CDC Director, George Gao, formally offering to send U.S. experts to China to investigate the coronavirus outbreak,Jan 6 CDC issued a travel notice on Wuhan, China, before any U.S. infection arose.

Jan 6 CDC issued a travel notice on Wuhan, China, before any U.S. infection arose.

The CDC established a coronavirus incident management system to better share and respond to information about the virus.


Jan 17 CDC began enhanced screening for COVID-19 symptoms at three U.S. airports, in San Francisco, Los Angeles and New York's JFK. U.S. infections: Zero.



Jan 20CDC opened an emergency operations center after one U.S. COVID-19 patient was diagnosed.Dr. Fauci announces the National Institutes of Health is already working on the development of a vaccine for the coronavirus.

Jan 21 CDC expanded COVID-19 checks to airports in Chicago and Atlanta.CDC activated its emergency operations center to provide ongoing support to the coronavirus response.

January 21The CDC sought a “special emergency authorization” from the FDA to allow states to use its newly developed coronavirus test.

Jan 20 Trump tweeted that he made an offer to President Xi Jinping to send experts to China to investigate the coronavirus outbreak.CDC issued a level III travel health notice urging Americans to avoid all nonessential travel to China due to the coronavirus.


Jan 29 Trump creates the coronavirus task force

Jan 31One day after the WHO declared COVID-19 a “Public Health Emergency of International Concern,” Trump restricted travel from China. Quid pro Joe this policy “hysterical xenophobia.” CDC began the first mandatory quarantines since the 1960s. Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar declared “a public health emergency in the United States.”

Feb 2CDC added Honolulu, Seattle and Dulles airports to those already screening travelers from China.

Feb 4 FDAallowed emergency use of CDC’s COVID-19 test in non-CDC labs. “My administration will take all necessary steps to safeguard our citizens from” COVID-19, Trump said in his State of the Union address.

Feb 5White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney and Secretary Azar briefed lawmakers on COVID-19. “Several House lawmakers of both parties said the administration has the situation under control,” the Seattle Times reported.







The House Foreign Affairs Committee held a hearing on “The Wuhan Coronavirus.” This was the first time that either House of Congress addressed this . They were all too preoccupied trying to convict Trump.

Feb 6CDC began shipping CDC-Developed test kits for the 2019 Coronavirus to U.S. and international labs.


Feb 9Trump’s Coronavirus Task Force briefed the states' chief executives at the National Governors Association Meeting.

Feb 11HHS expanded collaboration with Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen Research & Development division to produce a COVID-19 vaccine.

Feb 12 The U.S. shipped test kits for the 2019 novel coronavirus to approximately 30 countries who lacked the necessary reagents and other materials.

Feb 14CDC began working with five labs to conduct “community-based influenza surveillance” to study and detect the spread of coronavirus.



Feb 18
HHS offered expertise and funds to help Sanofi Pasteur develop a COVID-19 vaccine and treatments.




Feb 26 Trump assigned VP Mike Pence to lead the administration’s COVID-19 response.

Feb 24The Trump Administration sent a letter to Congress requesting at least $2.5 billion to help combat the spread of the coronavirus.

Feb 29FDA let LabCorp, Quest, and other diagnosticians develop COVID-19 tests and liberated states to engage some 2,000 such laboratories. The administration discouraged travel to parts of South Korea and Italy and restricted arrivals from Iran.

March 3CDC lifted federal restrictions on coronavirus testing to allow any American to be tested for coronavirus, “subject to doctor’s orders.”

March 4The Trump Administration announced the purchase of approximately 500 million N95 respirators over the next 18 months to respond to the outbreak of the novel coronavirus.Secretary Azar announced that HHS was transferring $35 million to the CDC to help state and local communities that have been impacted most by the coronavirus.



March 6Trump signed $8.3 billion in COVID-19 response funds approved by both Houses of Congress on March 4 .

March 10Trump and Pence met with top health insurance companies and secured a commitment to waive co-pays for coronavirus testing.

March 11 Trump restricts travel from Europe .

March 13, Trump proclaimed a national emergency, unleashed $42 billion, forgave student-loan interest; deregulated telemedicine, interstate medical practice and the hiring of physicians at hospitals; and persuaded Costco, Walmart and other retailers to launch drive-thru COVID-19 tests. FDA let Roche and Thermo Fisher produce COVID-19 tests.HHS announced funding for the development of two new rapid diagnostic tests, which would be able to detect coronavirus in approximately 1 hour.

March 15HHS announced it is projected to have 1.9 million COVID-19 tests available in 2,000 labs this week.Google announced a partnership with the Trump Administration to develop a website dedicated to coronavirus education, prevention, & local resources.
All 50 states were contacted through FEMA to coordinate “federally-supported, state-led efforts” to end coronavirus

March 16 Trump Announced that the first potential vaccine for coronavirus has entered a phase one trial in a record amount of time. Announced “15 days to slow the spread” coronavirus guidance.The FDA announced it was empowering states to authorize tests developed and used by labs in their states.Asst. Secretary for Health confirmed the availability of 1 million coronavirus tests, and projected 2 million tests available the next week and 5 million the following.

March 17The Department of Defense announced it will make available to HHS up to five million respirator masks and 2,000 ventilators.

March 18Trump signed the Families First Coronavirus Response Act, which provides free testing and paid sick leave for workers impacted by the coronavirus.He also temporarily closed the US Canada border to non-essential travel. He also announced that he plansto invoke the Defense Production Act .Also FEMA activated in every region at its highest level of response .The U.S. Navy will deploy USNS Comfort and USNS Mercy hospital ships. All foreclosures and evictions will be suspended for a period of time.HHS temporarily suspended a regulation that prevents doctors from practicing across state lines.

March 19Pence announced tens of thousands of ventilators have been identified that can be converted to treat patients.The State Department issued a global level 4 health advisory, telling Americans to avoid all international travel due to coronavirus.Trump directed FEMA to take the lead on the Federal Government’s coronavirus response

March 20Secretary Azar sent a letter to all 50 Governors that the federal government is buying and making available 200,000 testing swabs

All good moves no doubt advised by real experienced experts but let's be clear here, he has deviated from the plan bigtime and at a crucial phase to push this reopening thing when most of the states were far from ready. None have met anywhere close to criteria for further mitigation, as the dufus put those experienced experts on the back burner along with reasonable guide lines for the economic thing he is desperate for. That guarantees more sickness and death and some areas are just getting started with having to deal with this virus.

Hard to have a healthy economy again when your people are sick and dying. That's just my opinion, of course based on the science and data, but maybe, just maybe we can respond more quickly and efficiently to what I suspect will be more hotspots in the short term, with a larger wave toward years end. Believe it or not I hope the dufus actually knows something I do not, and can pull this off.

I'd be a fool though, to trust a snake oil salesman in the middle of his pitch. I got masks and toilet paper and will stay hunkered down and social distance even if everybody else says it's fine to come out and play. Traded the popcorn for crackers and added another streaming service.

All good moves no doubt advised by real experienced expertsAt least we can forget the "Trump didn't follow through," assessment.

keep moving the goal posts . The deal was a shut down to flatten the curve so the hospitals would not be over-whelmed . Mission accomplished .We know how to act if a spike occurs . We are well aware of what steps should be taken to protect ourselves and others in the course of our daily affairs .We know who is vulnerable and should be given extra consideration . Time to get back to work America. This shut down is going to cost twice as much in lives lost in health care delayed .

Mission accomplished in NY maybe, but have you forgotten how big this country is? Lot of those places you fly over will be hotspots eventually, and some are vital to the food chain.

Well, we can't stay shut down forever. Gotta bite the bullet at some point.

SAFE is the key word here, if you want workers, and people spending money like it grows on trees.

safe, yes hide in your bed

Mission accomplished in NY maybe, but have you forgotten how big this country is? Lot of those places you fly over will be hotspots eventually, and some are vital to the food chain. already said we know much more about how to respond, and Clete is right you can't hide forever wrapped in mylar or sealed in a bubble.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81zDnpsMMEL._SX300_.jpg

The virus is not going away any time soon .We will be fortunate if this hangs around for 2 years .We have to do what humans have always done . Adapt ;protect the vulnerable as best we can ;and live our lives .

Don't even talk about NY . Il duce has had the worse response of any governor in the nation.

The dufus empowered him for sure, I mean what's a governor to do when the prez disappears on you? Who ya gonna call?

The adaption we have is quarantine and isolate, so I hope the boss understands that when workers call in sick. Not a good time to repeal Obamacare, and have NO replacement. Can I sue the boss for an unsafe workplace? Or call my union rep? Yeah that's what adapting looks like.

My company can't be sued. We take temp upon entering ;wear masks and other ppe all day long ,have hand sanitizing stations throughout the work place , have separation in the work stations where practical ,and scatter breaks so the locker rooms and cafeteria's have room . and we have had our share of C-19 cases .

You guys are nuts to think that shutting down the country will solve this . When no one is working no one has medical insurance Obamacare or otherwise . Someone has to pay for it .

This virus is the lib wet dream ,a perfect Cloward -Piven scenario.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy

I'm not fooled . Our permanent dependency of the government for our existence is in your grasps.

Someone has to pay for it .The magic words.


The dufus empowered him for sure, I mean what's a governor to do when the prez disappears on you? Who ya gonna call?One of these days a liberal dem is going to take responsibility for his/her own actions, and I'm probably going to faint in amazement.

My company can't be sued. We take temp upon entering ;wear masks and other ppe all day long ,have hand sanitizing stations throughout the work place , have separation in the work stations where practical ,and scatter breaks so the locker rooms and cafeteria's have room . and we have had our share of C-19 cases .

You guys are nuts to think that shutting down the country will solve this . When no one is working no one has medical insurance Obamacare or otherwise . Someone has to pay for it .

This virus is the lib wet dream ,a perfect Cloward -Piven scenario.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy

I'm not fooled . Our permanent dependency of the government for our existence is in your grasps.

Nice spin, if we weren't making it harder to vote, harder to get assistance, harder to get health care, and harder to make a living by working, and harder to pay for goods and services. Those basic things we need regardless of jobs or wages. Yeah I get someone has to pay for it, but that last line is kind of crazy since government is the foundation for the organization of society. Always has been for humans and always will be for better or worse. I understand your dependence on big biz though or is it preference in who governs what?

Big Biz had some good marketing with the notion of job creators to get special unfettered treatment and control of government or more specifically the flow and circulation of cash, which right or wrong they get the lions share, and the worker split what's left. I get capitalism.

All our governing laws say those things are the domain of the people through elections in which big biz buys too. Of course you capitalists federalists believe states are better than your country, on their own. I get that too. Tell Cuomo to stop sending NY money to Mississippi.

He should keep his own money for NY'ers.

il duce should stop complaining . He likes the progressive tax system where high earners pay the most . Just so happens that NY has a lot of high earners . NY state also taxes the beejeezus out of them too,. You would think then that NY should not always be in a position where they are in the red and begging for bailouts .
As for the Federal transfers ;they are not mostly farm subsidies . They come from Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment insurance, food stamps, welfare, the maintenance of the national highway system. A lot of your retirees leave those high taxed blue states because they just can't afford to live in them on fixed incomes .
I would like to propose to il Duce some reforms that could shift the balance of payments . Flatten the taxes make them much less "progressive" . enact reforms in Social Security ;Medicare ,Medicaid , food stamps ;return social services to the states .Down size the Federal Government;reduce the Federal work force . Have states take over national parks or privatize them . Blue states allocate huge swaths of land that can be turned into military bases . Those states that host bases get a lot of transfer money from il Duce's NY .
I like it . Don't you ?

some perspective . Last year there were 80,000 flu deaths in the US WITH a Vaccine and no shutdown of the world economy.

Elections are coming so we get the chance to vote our conscious, or wallets.


some perspective . Last year there were 80,000 flu deaths in the US WITH a Vaccine and no shutdown of the world economy.

Current perspective, already over 100,000 deaths before mid year with everybody stuck at home. If we had ignored it and did the so what, business as usual thing, can we speculate what the death count would be? We are still learning about the long term effects of those that have recovered. I guess if things turn south you are for making people work through it like Mitch wants us to because he only sees one more relief package in our futures. His mind is made up for sure and yours seems to lean right with him.

Repubs are favoring back to work bonuses though, and I guess we'll see how this goes.

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BB14FA7j.img?h=749&w=1123&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=f&l=f

The great shortcoming of liberal politics. "How do we pay for all of this?"

I suppose the same way we pay for tax breaks, bailouts, and deductions, corporate windfalls, of course. Or we sell more bonds to China. We could raise taxes too. Where there is a will there is a way.

So you're OK with having your taxes raised?

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BB14qjCH.img?h=832&w=1248&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=f&l=f&fbclid=IwAR1h07Yz0nV-i1KGSfq7OmXAU9KzoKtvRtkzD31_C2oYoXWqaNXdtdO4Ilw

Does it matter if I do or not? If the elected government passes a tax hike and I get affected then what can a citizen do? One would hope they leave the seniors alone but you never know.

The government much eventually restore equity, that means higher taxes or less spending or both. You should change the name to Utopia Lost becuase it is clear the states are not united

In your earlier response you said, "We could raise taxes." I guess you meant just on everyone else?

No I said we could raise taxes period. Nothing specific. Just an option for paying debts as were the other suggestions.

What you don't realise is the bill must be paid somehow, and putting it off until tomorrow and expecting inflation to take care of it isn't the answer, this crisis is just a small taste of what happens when an economy collapses and it can happen in an instant, anytime nature takes a hand, and nature has many weapons in the arsenal, and none can be resisted. You might be able to resist the external enemy, but the enemy within you cannot. We have seen the enemy and he is us

We have seen the enemy and he is usWell said, and we won't make any progress until we buy into that.

We have seen the enemy and he is us The wisdom of Pogo

We have seen the enemy and he is us

But we are going to blame them! There is always a THEM to blame.

But we are going to blame them! There is always a THEM to blame.So very true. It makes life easier in the short term.

The wisdom of Pogo

Brings back a few memories!

It was in an earth day comic . But I believe Pogo author Walt Kelly had used it before . The original saying was from Commander Perry in the Battle of Lake Erie . (we have met the enemy and he is ours ) .
Here is the comic I remember . https://dyn1.heritagestatic.com/lf?set=path%5B4%2F0%2F4%2F404968%5D%2Csizedata%5B8 50x600%5D&call=url%5Bfile%3Aproduct.chain%5D

POGO was a regular strip in the comics section of my local paper back in the day. Your memory amazes me yet again.

Back to the OP

Trump Self-Medicating on Hydroxychloroquine (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=847488&page=15) Trump is obviously self medicating on something

His own self interests and ego driven agenda of course.

His own self interests and ego driven agenda of course.

Today the nation was treated to Trump dipping his toe into the waters of dictatorship. His use of an 1807 law was misapplied, no doubt on the advice of fatman Barr.

I seem to remember the last president to invade the states had a long war

I answered Trumps legitimate use of the Insurrection act in the other post . Suffice it to say when it was used to put down union organizing it was misused . When it is used because local leaders are afraid to confront pajama boys nihilists on the streets throwing gasoline in Bud light bottles then it is up to the Federal Government to protect life ,and the property of the people .

Those pajama boys nihilists are now uncovered to be white supremacists posing as antifa.

again by whom ? I have seen no proof . They disguise themselves real good with their girly man jeans .

You have no proof that ANTIFA was involved and neither does the dufus. That never stopped him before though so what's your excuse?

again by whom ? I have seen no proof . They disguise themselves real good with their girly man jeans .

Is this proof enough for you?

https://news.yahoo.com/twitter-takes-down-washington-protest-230300318.html

More where that came from. Google for yourself.

Your link only applied to a fake Twitter account. I don't think there is any evidence that White Supremacists (all 75 of them) are on the streets faking it as violent Antifa members.

There are a lot more than 75 white supremists. Didn't use the caps on purpose.

Yeah, I'm sure there are, but there's not many. Ever see any of their demonstrations? If two dozen show up, it's a big turnout.

This Antifa group is just the latest manifestation in a long line of leftist agitator groups going back at least to SDS or Weather Underground that led riots in the 60s ;and 2 of them Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn were mentors to the community agitator ,the emperor . Their favorite weapon back then was the bomb. They kept up their domestic terror activities until at least the Brinks job in 1981 . It is a clever deception and false flag to say that White extremists are doing the attacks. Nothing on Twitter can be taken at face value . They have already demonstrated their political biases .

A pox on the houses of the loony fringes. Left and right!

An interesting development.

read://https_www.nytimes.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2020%2F06%2F0 3%2Fhealth%2Fhydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-trump.html%3Fcampaign_id%3D60%26emc%3Dedit_na_2020 0603%26instance_id%3D0%26nl%3Dbreaking-news%26ref%3Dcta%26regi_id%3D91599845%26segment_id %3D30002%26user_id%3D4fda7a71dac2f5f1434969268de5c 8c3

This is the interesting part for me though.


“The F.D.A., in my view, bowed to the pressure and issued what’s called an ‘emergency use authorization’ for the drug,” said Sen. Ron Wyden of Oregon, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Committee on Finance, which sponsored the hearing. “Doing so threw open the door to tens of millions of pills, including some, directly related to this hearing, manufactured inside facilities in Pakistan and India that have either failed F.D.A.’s inspection or never been inspected by the F.D.A. at all.”

if they failed they should be stopped at customs. There is nothing in the law that allows for adulterated drugs to be approved . I deal with customs delays by the FDA at ports of entry all the time . Product is not released if not approved ;emergency use authorization or otherwise .I wait weeks for deliveries based on FDA holds .

This Antifa group is just the latest manifestation in a long line of leftist agitator groups going back at least to SDS or Weather Underground that led riots in the 60s ;and 2 of them Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn were mentors to the community agitator ,the emperor

When you have no defense, attack the other guy. The issue is today, not 60 years ago.


It is a clever deception and false flag to say that White extremists are doing the attacks. Nothing on Twitter can be taken at face value . They have already demonstrated their political biases .

The white extremists are INSTIGATING the attacks via social media - an established method. Your dislike of Twitter does not invalidate the truth.

Not surprising that some would dismiss the radical rights efforts, after dismissing the Russians actions of 2016. No surprise at all.

The white extremists are INSTIGATING the attacks via social mediaI doubt that. It's just an effort to excuse the actions of the ones on the streets making the decisions and doing the damage. I don't think the rioters look at each other and say, "Hey, the boss man on Twitter said to go loot and burn Walmart, so here we go."

I don't think the rioters look at each other and say, "Hey, the boss man on Twitter said to go loot and burn Walmart, so here we go."

Thanks for providing how YOU would instigate via social media. Your method is preposterous. The reality is light years more subtle than that.

Talk about zooming over one's head! WOW!

Doesn't take much to motivate a criminal to do illegal stuff. Just the opportunity.

Doesn't take much to motivate a criminal to do illegal stuff. Just the opportunity.Exactly correct.


Your method is preposterous. The reality is light years more subtle than that.Perhaps one day you can explain how it works.

don't buy it . NYC is reporting that weapons like bricks and molotov cocktails are being pre-staged . There is too high a degree of coordination for this to be a bunch of Twitter screamers

And to suggest that white supremacists are doing the coordinating just seems unreasonable to me.

I've seen White Supremacists rallies . The participation numbers in the dozens or less . Every one thinks that they have the influence that they had in the 1930s

I've seen the same thing. How many do I know, or even personally know of? Zero.

I've seen White Supremacists rallies . The participation numbers in the dozens or less . Every one thinks that they have the influence that they had in the 1930s

They came from all over to converge in Charlottesville. Organized on line. Never underestimate the enemy or what they are capable of.

Here's your big crowd. There must have been...twenty of them!! And they came from all over?

https://thewrenthamreview.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/charlottesville-white-supremacist-rally.jpg?w=840

Here's your big crowd. There must have been...twenty of them!! And they came from all over?

https://thewrenthamreview.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/charlottesville-white-supremacist-rally.jpg?w=840


Ah, your scrapbook. Where are you in the picture?


Perhaps one day you can explain how it works.

The subtlety of things zooms far above you. Sorry, not a chance you would understand.

zooms far above you.As people say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Why don't you come up with your own descriptors instead of having to copy mine?

As people say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Why don't you come up with your own descriptors instead of having to copy mine?

You've already said that. It's getting stale. Don't you have anything new?

Because you keep doing it. Have you no imagination of your own?

Because you keep doing it. Have you no imagination of your own?

No much of an answer, is it? Lame.

Lame.You copied me again!! Unreal. At least I know I am having a good influence on you.

I know I am having a good influence on you.

I doubt you've ever had a good influence on anyone!

Doubting seems to be your strong point.

Doubting seems to be your strong point.

Better than having NO strong points!

Enough. We don't care for each other's views. That's fine by me.

Enough. We don't care for each other's views. That's fine by me.

It's always been fine with me. I enjoy pointing out your errors.

If you ever do, then let me know.

If you ever do, then let me know.

No problem. Just go back and read the last several months.

As usual, no specifics.

As usual, no specifics.

They're all there for the reading.

Sure they are.

Sure they are.

Yup, they sure are.

The study in Lancet is flawed and it is a study and not a clinical trial .

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=847488&p=3853190#post3853190 (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=847488&p=3853190#post3853190)

Lancet's retraction :


After publication of our Lancet Article,1 several concernswere raised with respect to the veracity of the dataand analyses conducted by Surgisphere Corporationand its founder and our co-author, Sapan Desai, inour publication. We launched an independent thirdparty peer review of Surgisphere with the consent ofSapan Desai to evaluate the origination of the databaseelements, to confirm the completeness of the database,and to replicate the analyses presented in the paper.Our independent peer reviewers informed us thatSurgisphere would not transfer the full dataset, clientcontracts, and the full ISO audit report to their serversfor analysis as such transfer would violate clientagreements and confidentiality requirements. As such,our reviewers were not able to conduct an independentand private peer review and therefore notified us of theirwithdrawal from the peer-review process.We always aspire to perform our research in accordancewith the highest ethical and professional guidelines. Wecan never forget the responsibility we have as researchersto scrupulously ensure that we rely on data sources thatadhere to our high standards. Based on this development,we can no longer vouch for the veracity of the primarydata sources. Due to this unfortunate development, theauthors request that the paper be retracted.We all entered this collaboration to contributein good faith and at a time of great need duringthe COVID-19 pandemic. We deeply apologise toyou, the editors, and the journal readership for anyembarrassment or inconvenience that this may havecaused.


https://marlin-prod.literatumonline.com/pb-assets/Lancet/pdfs/S0140673620313246.pdf

It is now official. The world has gone crazy.

Fired FBI director James Comey to teach ethics at Virginia college
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/05/the-57375-years-of-life-lost-to-police-violence/559835/

Well the dufus said he was smarter than the generals so they are now speaking out against him, and the medicos will follow after he stopped listening to them too. No the world isn't crazy but the dufus certainly is acting like a nut!

Comey to teach ethics? Come on. Even a died in the wool liberal dem can see the irony in that. It would be like Trump teaching a class on social skills.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/06/mariann-budde-saint-johns-blocked/?utm_source=mj-newsletters&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-newsletter-06-04-2020

Answer why I should obey a guy in camouflage and a gun but no identification or insignia?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/with-white-house-effectively-a-fortress-some-see-trump-s-strength-but-others-see-weakness/ar-BB153eAJ?ocid=anaheim-ntp-feeds

I guess the dufus got his wall.

Your article opens with the tear gas lie, so it was hard to follow the rest of it. But for the WH to extend its security perimeter in this particular time seems reasonable to me.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/with-white-house-effectively-a-fortress-some-see-trump-s-strength-but-others-see-weakness/ar-BB153eAJ?ocid=anaheim-ntp-feeds

I guess the dufus got his wall.

Can't think of a better place to put it, it will keep those southerners from Florida in

Might have to cut off the lights and water too.

Well, another biased report goes down the drain.

"A database by the Chicago company Surgisphere Corp. was used in an observational study of nearly 100,000 patients published (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31290-3/fulltext) on May 22 in the influential Lancet journal that tied the malaria drugs hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine to a higher risk of death in hospitalized patients with the virus.
The validity of the data, however, has been called into question. The Lancet first published an “expression of concern” with the study after “serious scientific questions” were brought to its attention. It then retracted the report altogether on Thursday."

So that makes the dufus right because data was pulled because of a technicality? Naw, it's just back to the drawing board.

So that makes the dufus rightDidn't say that.

You didn't have to say it but your characterization of it speaks volumes in that direction as did Toms assessment in his post on the subject.


Well, another biased report goes down the drain.

(https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=847488&p=3853190#post3853190)
Lancet's retraction :



https://marlin-prod.literatumonline.com/pb-assets/Lancet/pdfs/S0140673620313246.pdf

Lancet's retraction was based on lack of access to a database. Had the database been accessible, it is unknown what the results would have been. They may have been as originally stated.

Two other studies came to the same conclusion as the original Lancet study that there are no benefits from the drug and the death rate increased, and neither one used the same database.

They are studies by the NIH (National Institute of Health) and the VA.

You didn't have to say it but your characterization of it speaks volumes in that direction as did Toms assessment in his post on the subject.It is positively amazing how you liberal dems can read minds. Really impressive, but I can do that as well. In fact, in your post I can see that your characterization of my characterization clearly shows that you are now a Trump supporter!!


Lancet's retraction was based on lack of access to a database.There was more to it than just that. "The Guardian reports that Surgisphere “has so far failed to adequately explain its data or methodology” and says that the company’s “handful of employees appear to include a science fiction writer and an adult-content model.”

https://twnews.us/us-news/network-newscasts-skip-major-hydroxychloroquine-report-retractions-org-says

Athos it is 2 faulty studies that have shaped the debate about the drug The WHO has reversed course and is resuming it's test after Lancet's retraction . Before that the VA hospital test was equally flawed and misleading .Lancet's retraction is very clear . They can no longer vouch for the veracity of the study.



Well the dufus said he was smarter than the generals so they are now speaking out against him, and the medicos will follow after he stopped listening to them too. No the world isn't crazy but the dufus certainly is acting like a nut!


Mathis and Kelly should throw their hat in the ring . Presidents have used to Insurrection act before so to think Trump's suggestion of using it is an existential threat to the Constitution is absurd . 2 recent Presidents evoked it when there was only one city on assault by rioting and looting . I guess Bubba gets a pass when he used Federal Troops to assault the Branch Davidians because he never evoked it . History tells us that WWI Vets occupied the National Mall ; the' Bonus Army' .It was during the Depression and they were desperate and correctly thought they were owed a bonus payment for service in WWI . So about 20,000 marched on Washington with their families and set up camp on the Mall.
Hoover ordered McArthur to disperse them by any means necessary . Well most of the Vets decamped and left peacefully. But a group of them broke off and got violent .The police Chief was hit with a brick .One got killed when he grabbed a cop's night stick and the cop fired on him. McArthur sent his troops into action led by Ike and Patton. Patton had his cavalry mount up sabers drawn. They rode into the Vets and jabbed at everything in their path . Next came Ike's infantry lobbing tear gas . Then came the tanks for mop up . They rolled over the encampment knocking down tent and makeshift shacks alike . That cleared out the mall . But Mac wasn't satisfied . There was another encampment at Anacostia Flats, south of the 11th Street Bridge in what is now Anacostia Park. That was where a group of communist vets camped out . He had the draw bridge raised and access to the camp sealed off. Then a National Guard unit lit up the camp with flood lights . Then infantry units lobbing tear gas ,marched into the camp and torched it .

Now you should be relieved at how restrained the Barr led Federal officers were in clearing Lafayette park. Bottom line , when you are told to disperse by law enforcement you should do so. If you don't like it then take it up with a judge later .

Athos it is 2 faulty studies that have shaped the debate about the drug The WHO has reversed course and is resuming it's test after Lancet's retraction . Before that the VA hospital test was equally flawed and misleading .Lancet's retraction is very clear . They can no longer vouch for the veracity of the study.

Thank you for the correction.

Answer why I should obey a guy in camouflage and a gun but no identification or insignia? Oh I know those guys . They are used in Fed pen when prisoners get unruly .They are especially trained to give therapeutic back massages .

History tells us that WWI Vets occupied the National Mall ; the' Bonus Army' .It was during the Depression and they were desperate and correctly thought they were owed a bonus payment for service in WWI . So about 20,000 marched on Washington with their families and set up camp on the Mall.
Hoover ordered McArthur to disperse them by any means necessary . Well most of the Vets decamped and left peacefully. But a group of them broke off and got violent .The police Chief was hit with a brick .One got killed when he grabbed a cop's night stick and the cop fired on him. McArthur sent his troops into action led by Ike and Patton. Patton had his cavalry mount up sabers drawn. They rode into the Vets and jabbed at everything in their path . Next came Ike's infantry lobbing tear gas . Then came the tanks for mop up . They rolled over the encampment knocking down tent and makeshift shacks alike . That cleared out the mall . But Mac wasn't satisfied . There was another encampment at Anacostia Flats, south of the 11th Street Bridge in what is now Anacostia Park. That was where a group of communist vets camped out . He had the draw bridge raised and access to the camp sealed off. Then a National Guard unit lit up the camp with flood lights . Then infantry units lobbing tear gas ,marched into the camp and torched it

Historians have characterized this Army action as brutal and unnecessary.


Now you should be relieved at how restrained the Barr led Federal officers were in clearing Lafayette park.

One brutal unnecessary action does not justify another brutal action. One of those lessons most of us learn in kindergarten.


Bottom line , when you are told to disperse by law enforcement you should do so.

Bottom Line - Illegal actions by law enforcement do not require obedience. Resisters might lose the battle, but tyranny should always be resisted.

technically the demonstration itself was illegal
When do you need a permit? Protests of 25 people or more on the National Mall or other National Park Service operated spaces in DC require a permit (click here to see a listing of those spaces (http://www.nps.gov/nama/planyourvisit/permits.htm)) require a permit, as does any event that requires streets to be closed. The Metropolitan Police, because they lost an important court case, are required to allow permit-less marches in the street as long as they stay within a single lane. Demonstrations on public sidewalks are legally permissable without a permit so long as they don’t block the walkway and fewer than 100 people are expected.

https://washingtonpeacecenter.org/guide-to-the-dc-permit-process/

If I run the city I strictly enforce the permit process. That's what Rudy did when he ran NYC .Demonstrations did not stray from permitted areas . I'm a big believer in 'Free Speech Zones ' that have been used by many blue cities like 1988 Atlanta during the Dem convention ;or WTO meeting in Seattle ;or the 2004 Dem convention in Boston. When the law surrenders the streets civil society dies .

Is that your excuse to deny citizens their first amendment rights? You could probably stand to get out of NY for a while and see the rest of your country.

What do you mean by a "free speech zone"? You are likely aware that universities use such tactics to restrict the right of free speech on campuses, and in particular of free conservative speech.

What do you mean by a "free speech zone"? You are likely aware that universities use such tactics to restrict the right of free speech on campuses, and in particular of free conservative speech.

Of course you have evidence of that conservative assertion of discrimination. Please share.

Evidence? Would you accept the ACLU's word for it? "On certain college campuses, administrators have created “Free Speech Zones” — spaces where people are allowed to speak, protest, or gather signatures for causes they believe in. While it may sound like these zones are designed to promote speech, they actually do the opposite by confining political expression to designated areas, often in out-of-the-way locations on campus.That’s why this week, in a legal challenge to Arkansas State University’s “Free Expression Areas” policy (https://www.astate.edu/a/student-union/freedom-of-expression/), we filed a friend-of-the-court brief (https://www.aclu.org/legal-document/amicus-brief-support-plaintiffs-peace-love-et-al) along with the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education arguing that such rules violate the First Amendment."

When the ACLU and FIRE agree on something, then that's pretty significant.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech/student-speech-and-privacy/when-colleges-confine-free-speech-zone-it-isnt-free

Or how about a court ruling???? You really should know by now that I don't make assertions I can't back up. "California judge rules all outdoor areas are free speech areas."

https://www.libertyheadlines.com/court-rules-lawsuit-college-speech-zone-will-continue/

Perhaps this doesn't bother you, but for freedom loving Americans, it swerves far too close to the old USSR. "Shaw was not in a college-designated free-speech zone at the time and didn’t have a school-endorsed permit to solicit literature."

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-boundaries-of-free-speech-at-public-colleges

Good for you. Cool! So at least in California conservatives won their rights.

What do you mean by a "free speech zone"? You are likely aware that universities use such tactics to restrict the right of free speech on campuses, and in particular of free conservative speech. I was being tongue in cheek a little . My larger point is that every one of these blue cities have permit processes that they enforce for almost every other street event .I posted the DC rules to make it clear that all the demonstrators were in violation of them and it was perfectly acceptable to forcibly remove them when they would not comply with the instructions they were given. You make a good point about the zones. They were used in the conventions to control the optics . How different is that than what Trump did ?

I agree with you completely, Tom. There is no unlimited right to gather wherever you want, whenever you want to do whatever you want.

Next you're going to tell me that Americans can't dominate the streets their taxes pay for. Who wrote those rules that says they can't? Maybe those rules need changing too.

I thought the dufus, the congress and all those elected folks worked for ME!

Would it be OK with you for a crowd of 200 to gather in your front yard, or gather in your living room? Don't you think there should be some kinds of controls?

Who wrote those rules that says they can't? Maybe those rules need changing too. umm blue cities have been run by dictatorial control by the Democrats mostly for years . We in NY had a time when Rudy ,and later Bloomy until he went all nanny ,when we had a slight relief . So your question should be self evident .

Would it be OK with you for a crowd of 200 to gather in your front yard, or gather in your living room? Don't you think there should be some kinds of controls?

Clarify the why for me.


umm blue cities have been run by dictatorial control by the Democrats mostly for years . We in NY had a time when Rudy ,and later Bloomy until he went all nanny ,when we had a slight relief . So your question should be self evident .

You may not talk about race Tom, but you got that red/blue stuff down pat. Of course I'm having a broader conversation than just one city, your city, I mean you can holler blue tyranny but I cannot, unless your saying the protests are just in blue cities.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/06/01/nolte-you-get-what-you-vote-for-and-in-democrat-run-cities-you-get-riots/

The why? Well, you made this statement. "Next you're going to tell me that Americans can't dominate the streets their taxes pay for. Who wrote those rules that says they can't? Maybe those rules need changing too." Sounds like you don't think there should be any rules for people to follow. I think if they gathered in your front yard, you'd be hollering about the rules.

When Rudy became mayor he brought with him a policy called ' broken windows ' .It was a policy that called for the enforcement of even the smallest of the laws that dealt with quality of life .It meant that if a building had a broken window it was fixed or boarded up and made to look like a window . It was pure aesthetics. It brought with it a sense that there was order . It brought a renaissance to the city . With order came businesses that wanted to invest in the city . He was panned as a racist for that .

Fast forward to today. Now it appears there is a new broken window policy . Break enough windows ;demonstrate disorder torch and loot and destroy and some righteous anger gets sated .Eventually the rioters will get bored and go back to momma's basement ,or their on line basket weaving degree just like they did with Occupy Wall Street . But what they leave behind in some cases is irreparable . They are not just destroying property . They are destroying the order required to live in an urban environment .

The people of these cities were just granted a reprieve by their elected leaders to wade their toes into a bit of normalcy . Take a walk in the park ;go to the beach , OPEN THAT BUSINESS WE FORCED YOU TO CLOSE . Then what happens ? The hun marauds . Now they are forced back into their homes . Their parks are occupied their businesses sacked .Non criminals are afraid to go into the cities . Those who can leave do so ;just like what happened the last time there was a waive of riots in the late 60s .

Businesses that were going to have a hell of a time rebounding now have to consider the added expense of replacing merchandize and windows if they are lucky .Some may have to relocate if they choose to reopen at all because their business was burned to the ground .As police pull back from active policing the criminals become emboldened ESPECIALLY in the minority neighborhoods . So who is this rioting serving ?

I'm sure you may find an example where this is happening in a city run by conservatives . But you won't find many . It is in the blue cities where police are considered the big problem instead of the bad cop the exception. As mentioned ,in some extreme cases city councils are considering defunding the police force. All Out Crazy certainly believes that . For the rest they offer platitude condemnations of the violence but in their hearts believe the rioting is justified.


What they should be doing is recognizing that the rioting does not help their cause .The murder of George Floyd forces us to examine policing in this country and peaceful protesting is justified . But as the violence continues Americans of good will will rally behind the police (in NYC the injured cops #s are over 100 ,and I'm sure other cities have similar) and safe streets agendas will overtake reform agendas . If Dem leaders of cities do not take back control of their cities from the marauders then they will be complicit in the destruction.

The why? Well, you made this statement. "Next you're going to tell me that Americans can't dominate the streets their taxes pay for. Who wrote those rules that says they can't? Maybe those rules need changing too." Sounds like you don't think there should be any rules for people to follow. I think if they gathered in your front yard, you'd be hollering about the rules.

The why is why would they be in my front yard? Sure I believe in rules. FAIR ONES.

@Tom

Stop and frisk was racist, and looters and arsonist and vandals are criminals. Protestors are peaceful and lawful. Let's learn the differences and deal accordingly.

Rudy is a nut, a shell of his former self.

I did not mention stop and frisk .It can arguably be said that it became racist in the Bloomberg era .He said in 2015 'throw em against a wall and frisk em' . The intent of the policy in NY was protecting African Americans, who were disproportionately the victims of crime.

The policy itself goes back to a SCOTUS decision in 1968 (the liberal Warren Court ) ; 'Terry v Ohio. '. The court gave police the power to stop and frisk a person if the officer has a reasonable suspicion the person is involved in criminalized activity or is armed and dangerous . Reasonable suspicion cannot be triggered by the race of an individual without more. Stop and frisk actually serves important ends by keeping neighborhoods safe .It is in fact still used in EVERY state in the nation and the federal government .

Bloomy allowed arbitrary use of it and he and the NYC police were smacked down by Judge Shira Scheindlin('Floyd v City of NY' ). But Bloomy's application of the law was the exception the judge made it clear the law itself is constitutional. Rudy introduced it when NYC had one of the highest murder rates in the nation . Stop and Frisk's aimed to reduce violence by arresting those illegally carrying guns and deterring would be criminals from carrying them in the first place. AND IT WORKED .

Like it or not ,the riots ,arson vandalism ,assaults on police and innocent civilians are a part of the protest .If you want to differentiate then you need to do more than blame the policing . If it is not up to the leaders of the demonstrations to stop it then it is up to the police . If the police can't stop it then it is up to governors to mobilize the guard . If they refuse or the guard can't do it then it is up to the Federal Government which has a mandate in the Constitution to insure domestic tranquility .

1. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Bloomie will forever be stained by his policy.

2. Roust up every black and latino you see and check them for criminality. Racial profiling, and yes it's always been a police policy along with speed traps and the like. Revenue raisers for sure, in the short term but blacks and latinos feeling safer? Maybe white people do with an active police force seeking criminals of color, but we don't. We see the long term effects of such policies.

3. Very dubious if the S&F worked since crime went down across the board nationwide, and like I said the long term effect of racial profiling is a deep seated resentment by minorities we see today. Add videos, we have protests and riots.

4. That's the point, we don't like it, since it's really easy to lump the citizen exercising his 1st amendment rights treated as the criminals. That's what S&F and racial profiling has gotten us. Just another door in the school to jail pipeline for the actions of the few. A huge few since about the only area of agreement we have is protesters actually do present the opportunity such criminals love, but taking away legit rights is not the way to combat such crimes.

However I won't even pretend to have a clue to solving the huge issues of the big city Tom, and can only echo the obvious criticisms that sure feeds the notions of racism so easily ignored and swept under the rug no matter how many lumps and bullet holes and wrongful deaths that occur. It was a super complex problem in my home city and can imagine more so in BIGTown.

I'll ask you the same question I asked JL, why is THIS protest so diverse, and widespread?

why is THIS protest so diverse, and widespread?

woke the constant pounding on the youth that they should remorse their 'white guilt ' .

https://twitter.com/PreetRang/status/1267413715726581765?s=20

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1267931725004288009

The model here is Mao's cultural revolution . The supposed oppressors confess their crimes or risk, like Drew Brees ,did the possibility of cultural isolation .I know Mao took it to the extreme . But the template is there .

Grant Napear, a Sacramento Kings play by play announcer made the unforgivable mistake of responding to a question about Black Lives Matter by saying all lives matter . He was forced to resign .Napear’s career is over. Drew Brees has done so much for the New Orleans community as the star QB of the Saints . But he made the unpardonable sin of defending the flag. He has since twice apologized and is hoping he can salvage his long built reputation .

If you follow the NY Slimes 1619 project you see that the reeducation of America starts with the premise that America was founded to protect slavery ,that the constitution was established for that purpose and it's system is the source of societies ills ,that America is inherently evil and had to be brought down and rebuilt . Like Mao's cultural revolution ,if you don't get on board that agenda then there is no place for you in America, That lesson has been hammered into the youth on campus . So of course the protests are diverse . There is not much room left in this country for free and independent thought .
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/20/magazine/1619-intro.html

The model here is Mao's cultural revolution . The supposed oppressors confess their crimes or risk, like Drew Brees ,did the possibility of cultural isolation .Exactly correct.


There is not much room left in this country for free and independent thought .Nothing is more dangerous to those who want to dominate and control than free and independent thought. "We will tell you what to think."

I seem to recall a certain pres suggesting this very thing. "Russia Developing Coronavirus Treatment That Disinfects the Body With UV Light From Inside."
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-developing-coronavirus-treatment-that-disinfects-body-uv-light-inside-1508350?fbclid=IwAR0IJLCn-zH5GTR89BKRzhhG7r13A9vRMqeH0JEWiYquQkkLKNGXatrUyPs

Vlad and the dufus on the same page? Couldn't read the article, but these two have been dancing together a long time, and neither is legit.

Vlad and the dufus on the same page? Couldn't read the article, but these two have been dancing together a long time, and neither is legit.Isn't that kind of the usual robotic response from you? Trump is bad!

He is bad! For people and robots. All the liberals thinks so even if you hate us saying so.

The unspoken truth is that UVA treatment goes back to the 1940s for pneumonia, tuberculosis, arthritis, asthma and other disease . It went out of favor when antibiotics were introduced ....and yes alternate practitioners still use it today. The old school method was to bomb the blood with ultraviolet . What is being developed is a method to introduce UV to the lungs through intubation .I posted a link a while ago for another partnership that has it in development( Cedars-Sinai and Aytu Bioscience ) .Yes Trump was right about it . In fact there is a competition to develop the technology and get it tested and approved . https://images.wsj.net/im-180715?width=620&size=1.5

Let me know when this old idea actually works and the FDA approves it as safe and effective for anything, but cleaning the atmosphere. Until then...!

that's what I like ;a man of science . The President asked if it was possible . The answer is definitely yes .

You mean in THEORY right? It's yet to be proved. Keep working on it.

and here I thought the left believes theory is fact .

that's what I like ;a man of science . The President asked if it was possible . The answer is definitely yes .

Is this the same time when Trump suggested injecting disinfectant to kill the virus?

I guess it is a waste of time to point out that disinfectants are used in vaccines that get injected into humans . No Trump did not say bleach . Yes he did say disinfectants . Thiomersal is an example. It is commonly used in flu vaccines . Ozone injections are also common as an alternative treatment ,

Yes Tom it's a waste of time pointing that out, because everybody and his mama knows the dufus has no clue what he was talking about, and was just rifting what some expert was probably discussing. We all know how bad he wants some cure and for this pandemic to be over with so he can get back to his normal routine of playing politics.

Bet he can't even spell thiomersal or say what it's really used for.

because everybody and his mama knows the dufus has no clue what he was talking about, and was just rifting what some expert was probably discussing.There is someone who doesn't know what he's talking about, and his name starts with a "T", but it's not Trump.

There is someone who doesn't know what he's talking about, and his name starts with a "T", but it's not Trump.
Hey, that's a mean thing to say to tomder! We sometimes (often?) disagree with him, but we still like him.

Hey, that's a mean thing to say to tomder! We sometimes (often?) disagree with him, but we still like him.

It is no use correcting jl, he just runs off at the mouth, diatribe

Hey, that's a mean thing to say to tomder! We sometimes (often?) disagree with him, but we still like him.I must admit, that was a funny comeback. Well done, WG.

I think my comment to Tal came across as mean. It was intended to be light-hearted, but that is hard to convey on a message board. My apologies.

mine has a small t

mine has a small tRescued!!

mine has a small t

So does mine!!

So does mine!!Crud!! Rescue proves to be ineffective.