Hard to believe but the Trump Administration's man in charge of the Federal response to the Covid-19 virus has violated the very principles he preaches about on the daily Trump update.

While visiting the Mayo Clinic re Covid-19, Pence was video'd among a group of medical doctors and a patient who were all wearing masks.

Pence refused to wear a mask, thereby putting in danger all those around him. He also did not maintain social distancing.

The clinic specifically asked him to wear a mask but Pence said he had tested negative.

This expert on the virus had no clue that infection can happen any time after a test. And he is the person in charge appointed by his nutty president whom he adores.

Well being the only person not wearing the mask is a sin but he wouldn't infect anyone and he wouldn't get infected, The PR is bad but then his leader is worse, he doesn't wear a mask, even if we would all benefit if he did so, and he spruks false messages and misinformation. Pence hasn't suggested anyone inject disinfectant yet

According to a very recent article, tRump has threatened to dump him as his running mate in November if he doesn't "obey," meaning be like tRump, maskless.

...not wearing the mask... he wouldn't infect anyone and he wouldn't get infected

The mask is to prevent OTHERS from being infected by the WEARER. A mask wearer can be infected in numerous ways.


Pence hasn't suggested anyone inject disinfectant yet

LOL. "Yet" is the key word.

Yet is a key word in all these debates

So much for leadership, and leading by example, unless you consider slobbering all over the dufus at every opportunity a good thing. LOL, wonder who would replace Pence at this late date if he grew a pair?

So much for leadership, and leading by example,Do you include Obama in your disapproval for his recent golf outing a day after his wife had broadcast a plea for everyone to abide by the shelter in place regs? Was that leadership "by example"?

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2020/04/29/barack-obama-goes-golfing-during-coronavirus-quarantine-n386764?fbclid=IwAR37z0YQGVSEFgoDN07fk7OuiwNTIO-hnC0n7HwHXvqinXcy9Ax-FN7SwGI

Should we be aware that the current first lady has a similar PSA for wearing masks and the dufus has never worn one?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/melania-trump-donald-trump-masks-coronavirus_n_5e885023c5b6e7d76c646562

Senate Leader McConnell is demanding Congress return against the orders of the Capitol doctor in order to ram through an unqualified 37-year-old to the US Court of Appeals. The candidate has already been rated "not qualified" by the American Bar Association. That does not bother Trump or his flunkie McConnell.

McConnell's opposition in Kentucky is ex-combat Marine pilot Amy McGrath running as a Democrat.

Should we be aware that the current first lady has a similar PSA for wearing masks and the dufus has never worn one?Then I guess it just comes down to pols being equal opportunity hypocrites. Neither party has a monopoly on it. How many dems have come out on the side of the female accuser's accusations against Biden?

Senate Leader McConnell is demanding Congress return against the orders of the Capitol doctor in order to ram through an unqualified 37-year-old to the US Court of Appeals. The candidate has already been rated "not qualified" by the American Bar Association. That does not bother Trump or his flunkie McConnell.

McConnell's opposition in Kentucky is ex-combat Marine pilot Amy McGrath running as a Democrat.

It's been reported that they don't have enough tests for the senators and staff.

It's been reported that they don't have enough tests for the senators and staff.That's hard to believe, don't you think?

Then I guess it just comes down to pols being equal opportunity hypocrites. Neither party has a monopoly on it. How many dems have come out on the side of the female accuser's accusations against Biden?

From what I have gleaned we wait for more facts to be revealed. Unlike Kavanaugh's botched investigation quashed by the WH and repub senators at the hearing, or the dufus antics against his accusers, or inviting BC accusers to debates, we see where it goes. You have long held the need for evidence so we look for it right?


That's hard to believe, don't you think?

NOPE, but it can be verified and rectified can't it?

we see where it goes. You have long held the need for evidence so we look for it right?We see where what goes? There is no investigation, and there is no long line of dems calling for an investigation. Yes, I held for the need of evidence unlike you who howled long and hard that we should simply believe the totally unsupported story of Blasey Ford, but who now holds a completely different position on Reade's accusations. Political prejudice??

We see where what goes? There is no investigation, and there is no long line of dems calling for an investigation. Yes, I held for the need of evidence unlike you who howled long and hard that we should simply believe the totally unsupported story of Blasey Ford, but who now holds a completely different position on Reade's accusations. Political prejudice??

Where is the long line of repubs calling for an investigation? You can read what I wrote about it, and I doubt your recollection of that event is accurate, nor is my position regard this event accurate. Of course while I may be biased and critical of the repubs execution of process Ms. Reade has not testified in public under oath either, so I really cannot evaluate her situation one way or another.

That's not political prejudice, but a lack of data. If you remember accurately my criticism was the antics of a drunk rich guy frat boy, and the repub sham investigation. I found Dr. Ford a credible witness after she testified. So as the press investigates and reports I may have a more definitive opinion.

Now if you see that as prejudice and inconsistent, that's YOU, and that's cool by me. I wait for more data to evaluate.

Where is the long line of repubs calling for an investigation?It is not for the Congress to investigate.


Of course while I may be biasedYa think???


That's not political prejudice, but a lack of data.Good luck with that one.


If you remember accurately my criticism was the antics of a drunk rich guy frat boy, and the repub sham investigation. I found Dr. Ford a credible witness after she testified.So you are prejudiced against the wealthy and against fraternity members. I get that. Dr. Ford credible? Are you speaking of the woman who couldn't remember half the story? That was credible? Yeah. No political prejudice at work there.

1. It's left to the people to decide right?

2. Well I am a progressive independent bleeding heart liberal who leans heavily democratic so there you go.

3. You seem to have facts about Ms. Reade I don't have so spill it. While you're at it explain why Ms. Reade is more credible than Dr. Ford while you biasedly ramble on.

4. I thought I was very specific about one person and his antics. He was in a rich family, a frat boy, and a beer swilling drunkard, so accurate by my account, without indicting anyone else broadly as you alleged. You have your opinion of people and events, I have mine, and on this we are polar opposites as no surprise.

You stubborn old coot I still vote for Joe over the dufus in the fall. You should let go of your nose breathe and do the same. 8)

Ms. Reade is more credible than Dr. Ford while you biasedly ramble on.I haven't said she is, but she is well able to remember details of her story which Dr. Ford could not. How many network news programs have interviewed Reade?


He was in a rich family, a frat boy, Why would you have needed to mention that? Did that make him guilty?


and a beer swilling drunkard,
That is a gross exaggeration.


You stubborn old coot I still vote for Joe over the dufus in the fall. You should let go of your nose breathe and do the same. 8)If you are honest and your eyes are open, then you'll be holding your nose as firmly as I will.

So why are we relitigated an old story, and not talking about the current one. You must be bored.

No other reason than to point out the hypocrisy of some of the liberal dems on this board.

What hypocrisy could that be?

Giving Kavanaugh down the river on very little evidence (rich..frat boy..drunken bum, all from decades ago) but wanting to be Mr. Reasonble with Biden.

you know it sounds like you have a lot of drunken bums in high places

Giving Kavanaugh down the river on very little evidence (rich..frat boy..drunken bum, all from decades ago) but wanting to be Mr. Reasonble with Biden.

No, hypocrisy is defending Kavanaugh, but not Biden for something that happened decades ago. Joe wasn't a drunk frat boy, if he was I would call him one. Hypocrisy is saying no evidence against the drunk frat boy, and thinking there is against Biden, so throw him under the bus before any investigations.

You're checking all the boxes so far.


you know it sounds like you have a lot of drunken bums in high places

Guns and booze is American as apple pie, but whom else could you be referring to Clete? maybe you should check your own high places. Or is ignorance bliss?

No, hypocrisy is defending Kavanaugh, but not Biden for something that happened decades ago. Joe wasn't a drunk frat boy, if he was I would call him one. Hypocrisy is saying no evidence against the drunk frat boy, and thinking there is against Biden, so throw him under the bus before any investigations.Ha! Thank you for backing yourself into a corner. I feel the same way about both of them. If the evidence is there, then prosecute them. If not, then get off their backs. The evidence was clearly not there for Kav. As for Biden, I give him the benefit of the doubt until it gets proven. So how does that look for the non-hypocritical approach???

As for the rich, frat-boy prejudice you have, which is wrong in the same way as racial prejudice is wrong, how do you know Biden doesn't qualify?

Guns and booze is American as apple pie, but whom else could you be referring to Clete? maybe you should check your own high places. Or is ignorance bliss?

We are more likely to have scandal regarding influence but there was one drunken bum of note, a GG who sacked a government and a Downer who was a downer for the US in the hunt for Russian influence

Rich frat boy drunkard is a fact. No prejudice involved. Show me the evidence that Biden was a rich frat boy drunk and you made a case. I won't relitigate Kavanaugh though, as it's easy enough to review the archives here for yourself. I get though repubs want this as an issue whether it has merit or not, and given this crisis and questions of it's management a bit of dirt on Ol' Joe might level the playing field, but if the dufus can overcome his own words, antics, and allegations of women issues then I'm sure the dems can get past this allegation.

Plus I think you're just bored and ain't got no friends. 8O

Rich frat boy drunkard is a fact. No prejudice involved.Of course it's prejudice. There's nothing wrong with being rich or being in a fraternity, and I would bet you did some drinking yourself back in the day as did I. So to hold those things against someone is absolutely prejudice.

More bad news for your boy. Two witnesses corroborate the accusations against him.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ap-uncovers-two-sources-corroborate-tara-reade-allegations-biden

Friends? Who has friends during this lock down? It is starting to get old.

Of course it's prejudice. There's nothing wrong with being rich or being in a fraternity, and I would bet you did some drinking yourself back in the day as did I. So to hold those things against someone is absolutely prejudice.

More bad news for your boy. Two witnesses corroborate the accusations against him.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ap-uncovers-two-sources-corroborate-tara-reade-allegations-biden

Friends? Who has friends during this lock down? It is starting to get old.

No I wasn't a frat boy or rich, and I don't exactly hold it against him, it was just a statement of fact, but your two witness just say that she told them about the incident, one was a decade later. I'll just wait for the interview.

I get fresh air since the weather turned nice, and keep the phones hot talking to other shut ins. I got peeps everywhere. Helps but not much.

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BB13k1Cc.img?h=416&w=799&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=f&l=f

your two witness just say that she told them about the incident, First of all, they are not my witnesses. But you see what I mean? Two witnesses (in addition to her mom) say she told them about the incident and you just blow that off. Blasey-Ford had ZERO confirmation for her story. She said she has some witnesses, but they all said they knew nothing about the supposed incident, and yet you were all over that and found her to be "credible". Politics. Just that simple.

What's your problem? I stand by what I have written here and before, and just like they aren't YOUR witnesses, then give me the same considerations you give yourself and stop conflating my response with the media, or what you falsely claim and assume are my words. Definitely stop projecting your own hypocrisy on to me.

Don't you have enough to do keeping the dufus' lies straight and trying to defend them? I said investigate the frat boy, and I said investigate Ol' Joe so what part of that is it that confuses you?

I said investigate the frat boy, and I said investigate Ol' Joe so what part of that is it that confuses you?That's your whole problem. I'm not confused. Kavanaugh was investigated, and the evidence was the testimony of one very confused and not believable woman, but you raked him over the coals and counted him as guilty. You even belittled anyone who appealed to the lack of evidence. Now with Biden, suddenly you are all about giving him due consideration. You had no regard for her three witnesses, but Ford didn't have any.

Repubs also found Ford credible. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/some-gop-senators-concede-fords-credibility-but-point-to-lack-of-corroboration/2018/09/27/6d97c484-c287-11e8-b338-a3289f6cb742_story.html) Reade has canceled an interview on fake news citing security issues, but can't we wait for her to appear and tell her story? Her witnesses say they told her of an incident, and if that's enough evidence for you okay. For some that's not enough and her problem may be the same lack of corroborating evidence as with Dr.Ford. We'll see. I'm not going to jump to conclusions until I see/hear more.

There was plenty of evidence for the rich drunk frat boy label though. As there is for touchy feely Joe, and his acknowledgements since being confronted. I find him credible at this point, so bring Ms. Reade on whenever she feels comfortable. Or you could supply links that bolster YOUR credibility on this subject.

Fascinating though your pattern of comparing everything when circumstances dictate a case by case review. I mean you ignored the females that came out against the dufus, and understood his lying about affairs with playboy bunnies and porn stars covering it up with no remorse. Would I be a hypocrite for doing the same for Biden?

evidence for the rich drunk frat boy label though.Still with the prejudice? Disappointing. Prejudice from a liberal dem is even uglier than usual because all of you claim to dislike it so much. You dislike it until you think it serves your purpose.

So you condone young people drinking to oblivion, while I do not. It was stupid when I did it, and stupid when Kavanaugh did it. I think you mistake my pragmatism about the Reade situation with your own zeal to pin a label on me. Cool since you lack the credibility to make it stick except in your own mind. That's not my problem though.

Obvlion, I think I heard of it once while drunk in my youth. We fail to teach the young by making alcohol readily available under the guise of making it illegal

So you condone young people drinking to oblivionYou find where I have said that and we can talk about it. Otherwise, it would certainly appear to be lying on your part.


It was stupid when I did it, and stupid when Kavanaugh did it. Fair enough, but it reduces your criticisms of Kav to zero. You've already said there is nothing wrong with being rich or in a frat, and now you have to admit that his youthful drinking was no worse or stupid than your youthful drinking or, for that matter, mine.

https://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/mrz050420dAPC20200502074508.jpg

Alcohol was banned from the public airwaves many years ago, but that ban has lifted and we are bombarded with the drink responsibly by many brands now. Doesn't change the fact it's a problem for some more than others, and always have been. I think though the argument on this board is not about the alcohol, though it plays a big part in the behaviors of the youths involved, at least with the Kavanaugh part, but about sexual harrassment and assault by public figures. You have to be crazy not to see that this has been from the direct actions by our dufus president, who bragged and denies his own words and actions even with proof and gets a free pass from supporters. They held their nose and expect the opposition to hang our own candidate for allegations against him. They holler no evidence, but while we look for evidence in the current times they think they have enough already to justify the further support of the dufus.

Politics JL! Pure and simply! Biden's scandal or allegation of one, pales in comparison to the ones of the dufus and his ilk, in size scope and details over just the last 3 years, so no surprise you would rather quote scripture and proteolyze than talk about the flaws of the dufus. Easier to diminish, minimize, project, and deny, and ignore any facts that opposes your narrow views and agenda, and embrace a dufus that gets you what you want, no matter what he does.

I get you!

You have to be crazy not to see that this has been from the direct actions by our dufus president,The big four recently have been Kav (not guilty), Biden (only accused so far), Bill Cosby, and the wealthy guy whose name escapes me. Those all occurred before we even heard of Trump, so it's just another symptom of your TDS.


embrace a dufus that gets you what you want, no matter what he does.Another lie. Wow. That's two and it's not even eight o-clock yet. You're on a roll!

Take five minutes and listen to this. It's strictly non-partisan about the virus. I'd love to know what you think. https://dailycaller.com/2020/04/24/stanford-scott-atlas-end-isolation/

The Hoover Institute is non partisan? They have always embraced the conservative view. Who you think your fooling JL.

Pardon me for asking you to simply listen to something and think for yourself.

Pardon me for asking you to simply listen to something and think for yourself.

I did listen to your link, fact checked it for background and evaluated it's accuracy for myself. Standard for my posts and responses. Sorry I disagree with you yet again based on facts and not just feelings. Deal with it!

Could you elaborate on those facts?

This member of the Hoover Institute, a conservative think tank, has his own biases, which makes your non partisan statement suspect, if not biased, on your part. .

Fact 1: The overwhelming majority of people do not have any significant risk of dying from COVID-19.

While true that doesn't have anything to do with the illness itself, the severity or the hospitalization that will be needed. Nor the infectability of the asymptomatic, or being able to predict exactly who will die if infected.

Fact 2: Protecting older, at-risk people eliminates hospital overcrowding.

Agree that should be the focus, but doesn't guarantee elimination of hospital overcrowding but slowly the rates of infections by people staying at home and closing potential infection points like stores, schools and large events is credited with less infections and the overwhelming of hospitals so far.

Fact 3: Vital population immunity is prevented by total isolation policies, prolonging the problem.

We don't know that as a fact and it's a hope at best, but the isolation policies was meant to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed which is more important I think than hoping we get herd immunity. Even now we don't know if people have that immunity.

Fact 4: People are dying because other medical care is not getting done due to hypothetical projections.

No evidence of that so until it is not a credible scientific statement


Fact 5: We have a clearly defined population at risk who can be protected with targeted measures.

We may have good credible evidence of high risk of dying but everyone is subject to serious illness and that's not so defined, nor are there any tests to define it clearly.

That's just a start JL, there may be more coming soon as time permits.

Hmm. Well, I looked for the place where you had evidence that contradicted his statement. Didn't find it.



Fact 1: The overwhelming majority of people do not have any significant risk of dying from COVID-19.

While true that doesn't have anything to do with the illness itself, the severity or the hospitalization that will be needed. Nor the infectability of the asymptomatic, or being able to predict exactly who will die if infected.

Fact 2: Protecting older, at-risk people eliminates hospital overcrowding.

Agree that should be the focus, but doesn't guarantee elimination of hospital overcrowding but slowly the rates of infections by people staying at home and closing potential infection points like stores, schools and large events is credited with less infections and the overwhelming of hospitals so far.

Fact 3: Vital population immunity is prevented by total isolation policies, prolonging the problem.

We don't know that as a fact and it's a hope at best, but the isolation policies was meant to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed which is more important I think than hoping we get herd immunity. Even now we don't know if people have that immunity.

Fact 4: People are dying because other medical care is not getting done due to hypothetical projections.

No evidence of that so until it is not a credible scientific statement. What? You're not aware of the multitude of med procedures that have postponed, and the fact that some of those postponements have resulted in the death of the patient?
Fact 5: We have a clearly defined population at risk who can be protected with targeted measures.

We may have good credible evidence of high risk of dying but everyone is subject to serious illness and that's not so defined, nor are there any tests to define it clearly.

That's just a start JL, there may be more coming soon as time permits.

I'll be waiting for the more agreement to come.

I'll save you the trouble. Whatever Fauci and Birx says I will agree. Just today the FDA released stricter guidelines for the testing in all the categories because of the lousy results some are producing. Worth noting also, while most of the states are in the process or have limited openings, NONE have met the 14 day thresh hold of downward trend infections, hospitalizations, or deaths, as set out as guidelines by the CDC. In some states like Georgia, quite the opposite is happening.

I hope this works out I really do, but you know how that goes, hope for the best but plan for the worst.

I understand that. It's a dilemma for sure.

Working on sheetrock the next two days. Have I ever mentioned how much I hate working on sheetrock? The business of cutting the holes for the boxes to go into is especially aggravating. This is, I hope, the final wall of our house I'll have to deal with.

I go out everyday, morning only, wave at neighbors from a distance so I understand the need for outdoors by many. Nothing like a shave, haircut bueaty shop to feel much better I understand that too. I LOVE THE BEACH! Lived on one and raised kids there back in the day and feeding gulls in winter was a date for me and the wife. I know how hard this stay at home is. Got peeps in nursing homes and senior living facillities. No VISITS! Can't see the GKids! Calls only.

You think I don't want my life back?

I hate sheetrock too!

It's not so much the stay at home. That's not fun, but it's the destroying of our economy that must be stopped. Everything has a cost.

Yes it is for sure. How many people will you sacrifice to save the economy? Did we not learn the lesson of the 1917 pandemic, and the subsequent ones? Sure we have, just a matter of doing it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_pandemic


The main ways available to tackle a flu pandemic initially are behavioural. Doing so requires a good public health communication strategy and the ability to track public concerns, attitudes and behaviour. For example, the Flu TElephone Survey Template (FluTEST) was developed for the UK Department of Health as a set of questions for use in national surveys during a flu pandemic.[89] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_pandemic#cite_note-90)


Social distancing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_distancing): By traveling less, working from home (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_from_home) or closing schools, there is less opportunity for the virus to spread. Reduce the time spent in crowded settings if possible. And keep your distance (preferably at least 1 metre) from people who show symptoms of influenza-like illness, such as coughing and sneezing.[90] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_pandemic#cite_note-WHO-What-can-I-do-91) However, social distancing during a pandemic flu will likely carry severe mental health consequences; therefore, sequestration protocols should take mental health issues into consideration.[91] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_pandemic#cite_note-92)
Respiratory hygiene: Advise people to cover their coughs and sneezes. If using a tissue, make sure you dispose of it carefully and then clean your hands immediately afterwards. (See "Handwashing Hygiene" below.) If you do not have a tissue handy when you cough or sneeze, cover your mouth as much as possible with the crook of your elbow.[90] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_pandemic#cite_note-WHO-What-can-I-do-91)
Handwashing hygiene: Frequent handwashing with soap and water (or with an alcohol-based hand sanitizer) is very important, especially after coughing or sneezing, and after contact with other people or with potentially contaminated surfaces (such as handrails, shared utensils, etc.)[92] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_pandemic#cite_note-93)
Other hygiene: Avoid touching your eyes, nose and mouth as much as possible.[90] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_pandemic#cite_note-WHO-What-can-I-do-91)
Masks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgical_mask): No mask can provide a perfect barrier, but products that meet or exceed the NIOSH (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIOSH) N95 standard recommended by the World Health Organization (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization) are thought to provide good protection. WHO (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHO) recommends that health-care workers wear N95 masks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N95_mask) and that patients wear surgical masks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgical_mask) (which may prevent respiratory secretions from becoming airborne).[93] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_pandemic#cite_note-non-pharm-interven-94) Any mask may be useful to remind the wearer not to touch the face. This can reduce infection due to contact with contaminated surfaces, especially in crowded public places where coughing or sneezing people have no way of washing their hands. The mask itself can become contaminated and must be handled as medical waste when removed.
Risk communication: To encourage the public to comply with strategies to reduce the spread of disease, "communications regarding possible community interventions [such as requiring sick people to stay home from work, closing schools] for pandemic influenza that flow from the federal government to communities and from community leaders to the public not overstate the level of confidence or certainty in the effectiveness of these measures."[94] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_pandemic#cite_note-95)


Or we forget the past lessons and repeat the mistakes.

all wonderful lessons, but the young don't respond, they are invulnerable like Achilles

Some of the old coots don't respond well either Clete. I mean how do you ease restrictions when infections and deaths are rising?

Yes it is for sure. How many people will you sacrifice to save the economy?Do you realize we could save 40 thousand lives a year just by eliminating cars? Are you for that? If not, then why do you value your convenient transportation over the lives of 40 thousand people a year?

Some of the old coots don't respond well either Clete. I mean how do you ease restrictions when infections and deaths are rising?

Logically you don't, you exercise patience, which may only mean a week or two until the worst is over, this thing seems to run for about three months and then subside


Do you realize we could save 40 thousand lives a year just by eliminating cars? Are you for that? If not, then why do you value your convenient transportation over the lives of 40 thousand people a year?

yes and you will save an equal number by eliminating guns, but that's logical, and no amount of logic will prevail

Do you realize we are approaching almost twice that many deaths in just a few months? This virus is already outpacing other causes of death in this country. Will you say the same thing after 100,000 deaths? If it hits someone close to you? Ain't no fun feeling scared and helpless like those meat packing workers, or first responders like transit, grocery, cops, emt's, nurse, and doctors, you know essentials, who see death every day, and risking dying themselves.

You want to stop making cars, go ahead, I'm with you.


yes and you will save an equal number by eliminating guns, but that's logical, and no amount of logic will prevail

You trying to incite a riot? Gun deaths don't count.

I don't think there is any avoiding loss of life with this virus. New York City is locked down pretty tightly but they are having more deaths than anyone. I do think there is something to be said for learning to walk through this smartly. If this economy goes south, then the suffering will be amplified. I imagine that if your retirement income is cut by 50%, then you'll be at the head of the "Reopen the Economy" protest in your town. It's easy to take a stand for life when it is costing you nothing. And while you're at it, what about the 900,000 abortion deaths a year that you seem to care nothing about?


You want to stop making cars, go ahead, I'm with you.
Talk's cheap.

You trying to incite a riot? Gun deaths don't count.

apparently not

https://scontent.fmem1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/94970365_10219485530506185_5247876915276021760_n.j pg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=OmmN_nGu9I0AX_gszMp&_nc_ht=scontent.fmem1-1.fna&oh=d25b47e9cbe35f6dd3f7e087370c597b&oe=5ED581DB

Are you suggesting along with Walsh that we do nothing about this pandemic just let people get sick and die because we kill babies? I think as people rush to save the economy and ignore the virus, we lose people and the economy. The virus is the problem, not the economy.

The point of the guy's statement is that it is the pinnacle of hypocrisy to claim to be so concerned about life that we will basically enter into another Great Depression to (we think) avoid loss of life while standing idly by, year after year, while nearly a million human beings are killed and tossed aside as so much garbage every single year. I think his point is valid. People who vote for those who delight in abortion (as dems do) can't profess to be occupying any moral high ground.

The virus knows no moral high ground, nor care about your great economy. Just finding hosts on which to feed and grow. Babies can die, and have, the young can die, and have. The old can die, and have. Workers can die, and have. What does moral high ground have to do with that?

Nothing except that when you point fingers at those who are rightly (my view) concerned about the destruction of our economy and accuse us of being uncaring, and then exhibit no concern at all for over 900,000 human deaths every year, then it raises legitimate questions. If you are really so concerned about lives, then where have you been all these years?

I have criticized the response and execution of this administration around this pandemic but it's you throwing all the ills of society in the mix. This economy has bounced back throughout history, so what makes you think it won't comeback from this challenge as well?

For sure this virus won't go away until there is a cure or treatment, and if you think the economy can grow and thrive while the virus is very active and growing, that makes no sense.

1. Of course you have criticized this admin. It's because, it sure seems, that you are more motivated by political considerations than by any real morality.

2. The economy "bounced back" from the Great Depresssion. If you want to read about great suffering, then read about that, and then think if we really need to be running the risk of doing that again.

3. I do believe the economy can pick back up while we still exhibit common sense about this virus, but it will take come courage.

1. Of course you have criticized this admin. It's because, it sure seems, that you are more motivated by political considerations than by any real morality.

Spoken by the board's "Holy Joe". Who are you to criticize anyone's morality?


The economy "bounced back" from the Great Depression. If you want to read about great suffering, then read about that, and then think if we really need to be running the risk of doing that again.

Life expectancy increased by 6 years during the Great Depression. Mortality decreased in every category except for suicide. No Americans starved during the GD. This time unemployment is being dealt with in many ways by the government, many businesses, and various other organizations.

As Tal says, you put the economy ahead of human suffering.


I do believe the economy can pick back up while we still exhibit common sense about this virus, but it will take come courage.

Common sense is being applied now to the present crisis. It is the wackos ( a tiny percentage) with their guns and swastikas on the state house steps that are failing to show a modicum of common sense.

The American people are overwhelmingly against those nuts.

Spoken by the board's "Holy Joe". Who are you to criticize anyone's morality?Just go back and look at your Aquinas post if you want to see immorality at work. Sorry, but your credibility is shot.


Life expectancy increased by 6 years during the Great Depression. Mortality decreased in every category except for suicide. No Americans starved during the GD. This time unemployment is being dealt with in many ways by the government, many businesses, and various other organizations.Yeah, those were really the "good ole days." Unemployment above 20%. Wages falling from one year to the next. Negative GDP growth for four consecutive years, but it was a great time!

As to unemployment being "dealt with" by the feds, it is interesting to note that the debt to GDP ratio in 1929 was 16%, so the feds were in a much better position to increase federal debt and did so. Now, thanks to the collective genius of both Obama and Trump, the ratio is 110% and climbing even more, so it can be argued that this being "dealt with" with TONS of borrowed money is going to come back and bite us. Your plan of just shutting down the economy, closing our eyes, and singing "Happy Days are Here Again" does not strike me as sensible. There are much better ideas developing out there.


As Tal says, you put the economy ahead of human suffering.And where are you on those 900,000 abortions a year that you never bring up? That's the phoniness of your position. You stand idly by while unborn babies are killed because you can't be troubled about that. It doesn't fit your political agenda.


It is the wackos ( a tiny percentage) with their guns and swastikas on the state house steps that are failing to show a modicum of common sense. I would agree with that. I think most people on both sides would. It is beyond amazing that Michigan would allow those nuts in their Statehouse.

Just go back and look at your Aquinas post if you want to see immorality at work. Sorry, but your credibility is shot.

You just can't get past that, can you? Even tho it's been explained to you three or four times as you keep insisting. When you refuse to believe the facts, and charge others with immorality, who's the Holy Joe? Who has no credibility?


Your plan of just shutting down the economy, closing our eyes, and singing "Happy Days are Here Again" does not strike me as sensible.

For a Holy Joe telling others how they think, you have no compunction about lying, do you? Your habit of putting words in my mouth continues unabated. Are you never ashamed of doing that, being such a holy Christian and all


And where are you on those 900,000 abortions a year that you never bring up?

NEVER BRING UP?!!? Now you moralize about something I NEVER BRING UP??

Your stupidity is breathtaking.

You just can't get past that, can you? Even tho it's been explained to you three or four times as you keep insisting. When you refuse to believe the facts, and charge others with immorality, who's the Holy Joe? Who has no credibility?It's not the guy who gave half the quote that he knew favored his position, and left out the other half that he know destroyed his position.


For a Holy Joe telling others how they think, you have no compunction about lying, do you? Your habit of putting words in my mouth continues unabated. Are you never ashamed of doing that, being such a holy Christian and all.I put no words in your mouth as there was no quote. Remember that conversation? At any rate, it was my characterization of your position. I think it's fairly accurate.


NEVER BRING UP?!!? Now you moralize about something I NEVER BRING UP??Well...yeah. Kind of obvious.


Your stupidity is breathtaking.I can always tell when you have run out of arguments and data. That's when the name calling begins.

Referring to the Aquinas quote, this is your reply when what appeared for all the world to be dishonesty from you was pointed out. "Augustine/Plato starts off the Middle Ages and Aquinas/Aristotle is the culmination. (BTW, a flatly incorrect statement. J.L.) Aquinas wrote tons of words and I stand by my interpretation of what he wrote. Like the Bible, there is so much there that the tendency to cherry-pick is never far away. For that reason, I suggest we drop Aquinas as getting too far from the topic at hand."

Note that there was nothing about how the Catholics forced him to amend his writings. That was a later plea. You just simply said that I had it wrong and you had it right. So no, I don't buy your answer now.

Remember that I save many of your posts since they are good for others to see and learn from as regards the defense of the faith and not trusting everything another person says.

And while that might sound mean, it is not intended to be. It is intended to be honest.

Referring to the Aquinas quote, this is your reply when what appeared for all the world to be dishonesty from you was pointed out. "Augustine/Plato starts off the Middle Ages and Aquinas/Aristotle is the culmination. (BTW, a flatly incorrect statement. J.L.) Aquinas wrote tons of words and I stand by my interpretation of what he wrote.

I still stand by it. Nothing you said changes my opinion. Btw, you clearly do not understand the Augustine/Plato- Aquinas/Aristotle comment. No explanation will be forthcoming from me - you'll have to look that one up yourself which I'm certain you will never do.


Note that there was nothing about how the Catholics forced him to amend his writings.

Yes, there was - that is exactly what I said![/QUOTE]


That was a later plea.

Also said by me.


I save many of your posts ... not trusting anything the other person says.

I save none of yours.


I had it wrong and you had it right. So no, I don't buy your answer now.

Your choice.


The name-calling is always, and I mean ALWAYS, a reaction to what you bring to this board.

The name-calling is always, and I mean ALWAYS, a reaction to what you bring to this board.I know. It's always someone else's fault. "He made me do it!! It's not my fault."


Yes, there was - that is exactly what I said!You did...months and months later.

Did you ever put forth what you think we should be doing about the economy and the virus?

I liked what the guy in the video said. The virus is especially lethal to a fairly small minority of the population. There are, he said, four areas of concern. 1. age 2. hypertension. 3. obesity. 4. diabetes.

I have a friend who has three of those four problems, so people like that need to shelter in place. Everyone else should be looking at getting back to work ASAP. Sporting events? I'd say no for now. Church? In a wise manner, yes.

There is still plenty of room for discussion, but we are looking at economic disaster in a matter of months if we don't do something now.

This is the information he was relying on.

https://www.lohud.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/07/coronavirus-ny-deaths-61-were-men-most-had-these-underlying-illnesses/2959183001/

Plus COPD and other lung diseases/conditions, and autoimmune situations (anemia of various kinds, lupus, MS, etc.).

That video is about a month old.

Plus COPD and other lung diseases/conditions, and autoimmune situations (anemia of various kinds, lupus, MS, etc.).No doubt that is all true.


That video is about a month old.How do you figure that?

No doubt that is all true.
Yes. I'm one of those several times over.

How do you figure that?
JOSEPH SPECTOR (https://www.democratandchronicle.com/staff/2647344001/joseph-spector/) | NEW YORK STATE TEAM Updated 3:16 p.m. CDT Apr. 7, 2020

JOSEPH SPECTOR (https://www.democratandchronicle.com/staff/2647344001/joseph-spector/) | NEW YORK STATE TEAM Updated 3:16 p.m. CDT Apr. 7, 2020I'm still not with you. The video I linked, which I did not see on your link, was dated 4/24 and the column he referenced was published 4/22.


Yes. I'm one of those several times over.I'm doing fairly well to be 67. Blood pressure requires meds and acid reflux is an issue, but all in all, I am grateful. Now I walk out to my shop and then have to stand there a minute or two to remember what I was supposed to get.

https://i1.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2020/04/Screen-Shot-2020-04-21-at-11.33.53-AM.png?w=898&ssl=1&fbclid=IwAR071yGFR22H4w5kxk63zVx3G7kiH78K3V76xMROk yejC1Q6YOXRN3AdyIU

Who opens the store in the middle of a disaster?

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BB13CVWF.img?h=416&w=799&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=f&l=f

There are, and have been, many stores open. Why should Walmart be open but local stores be closed?

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/globegazette.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/f/69/f69d2508-848a-5b37-9ab4-16f31e29e4e8/590cb06091706.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C776

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/26/Anti-capitalism_color%E2%80%94_Restored.png/1200px-Anti-capitalism_color%E2%80%94_Restored.png

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_lm2JI7sGwYI/TMxgiYf8ajI/AAAAAAAALc0/mUZu2R2xD08/s1600/Wealth_Global.jpg

good one Tal

Tal, since you are opposed to the private ownership of businesses, meaning that anyone who wants to can start, own, and operate a private business, then what economic system do you prefer?

I am not opposed to private business ownership at all. Just the institutional inequity of them as a business model. Screw that trickle down crap you seem to favor.

I am not opposed to private business ownership at all. Just the institutional inequity of them as a business model. Screw that trickle down crap you seem to favor.If you are opposed to capitalism, then you are opposed to private business ownership since that is the definition of capitalism. "Just the institutional inequity of them as a business model??" What do you mean by "them"? Them what?

If you are opposed to capitalism, then you are opposed to private business ownership since that is the definition of capitalism. "Just the institutional inequity of them as a business model??" What do you mean by "them"? Them what?

Your assumption is incorrect and read:
"Just the institutional inequity of PRIVATE BUSINESSES as a business model??"

That inequity go back to merchants paying the help.

If you can mandate what a business owner must pay labor, then can you also mandate what the laborer must accept?

As long as a laborer is free to make him/her self and skills more valuable (training, responsibility and education) and thus able to go to another higher paying job, then doesn't that really give the advantage to any laborer wiling to do so?

My assumption was no assumption. If you favor the private ownership of business then you are a capitalist. It's true by definition.

If you can mandate what a business owner must pay labor, then can you also mandate what the laborer must accept?

NO! There are laws that govern pay on the federal and state levels but I know of no laws that mandate what a worker MUST accept. Indeed effectively there is no mandate for what a boss has to pay.


As long as a laborer is free to make him/her self and skills more valuable (training, responsibility and education) and thus able to go to another higher paying job, then doesn't that really give the advantage to any laborer wiling to do so?

Even entry level jobs have hiring requirements as do the next level jobs. That's why they generally come with a defined probation period to verify that requirement.


My assumption was no assumption. If you favor the private ownership of business then you are a capitalist. It's true by definition.

And what choices does an honest man willing to work an honest job for an honest days pay have by your definition? You really think he gives a rats patoot if the boss is a capitalists? The label is an artificial one like people cannot define themselves. I work for my own reasons not your definitions. Always have, always will.

NO! There are laws that govern pay on the federal and state levels but I know of no laws that mandate what a worker MUST accept. Indeed effectively there is no mandate for what a boss has to pay.I understand that, but are you suggesting that the government should be able to do that, to mandate what a business owner must pay his/her employees?


And what choices does an honest man willing to work an honest job for an honest days pay have by your definition? You really think he gives a rats patoot if the boss is a capitalists? The label is an artificial one like people cannot define themselves. I work for my own reasons not your definitions. Always have, always will.I understand. You have your own definitions (daffynitions?) so that, even though you agree that businesses should be privately owned, which is the definition of capitalism everywhere on the earth, you can opt out of wearing that label. Trump and you have a LOTTTT in common.

1. I think guidelines and perameters is best practice, and a living wage standard as opposed to minimum wages for adults, but states have a lot of powers too, to set wages.

2. UGH! That hurt...BAD! Capitalists is a somewhat recent label, as evolved from merchants, job creators and others. Labels are pretty convenient to separate ones self from other systems of governance and economic intent mostly to claim whose is better, or worse.

Why can't I be a free thinking free agent?

think guidelines and perameters is best practice, and a living wage standard as opposed to minimum wages for adults, but states have a lot of powers too, to set wages.What do you mean by "guidelines and parameters"? Laws? What people MUST do, or what the government suggests they do?

Gotta have laws as a guardrail to acceptable behavior, or we would be lawless, and you couldn't tell the good guys from the bad, or make people accoutable for unacceptable behavior could you?

So you want the fed government to establish some minimal salary, a living wage, that employers must pay employees?

I am not opposed to private business ownership at all. Just the institutional inequity of them as a business model. Screw that trickle down crap you seem to favor.

Good point, tal. Unbridled capitalism (aka crony capitalism) is ultimately destructive to a society. Proper capitalism is well-regulated and in the US, it includes aspects of socialism resulting in a capitalist society modified by socialism.

Even some Republicans during Reagan's time saw trickle down as "voodoo economics".

Russia is an interesting experiment in capitalism. Putin lets business do what it will as long as the government (Putin) gets a healthy cut. This State Capitalism has begun to curtail individual freedoms although living standards are higher than in the old USSR. Their oil-based economy is weak as seen by the price collapse. Time will tell.

The biggest threat to capitalism is when powerful interests (big biz, big unions, big organizations such as ecologists, etc.) begin to influence government to give them special favors. Crony capitalism is not "unbridled". It's the government passing out favors to those with money, thus placing the bridal on a government bought off with cash. Improper government influence can be seen with the fact that Walmart is allowed to be opened while mom and pop operations are closed, the government not giving a contract to a deserving company because it did not meet racial or union requirements, or the government giving a contract to a company because it is minority owned despite being completely undeserving of the contract and at the cost of a deserving company being passed over.

WG, who is slowly but surely regaining her position as Committed Grammarian, caught me! I used the wrong "bridal" in my second line. It should have, of course, been "bridle". I most humbly accept my rebuke and pleede for mursey. 8D

WG, who is slowly but surely regaining her position as Committed Grammarian, caught me! I used the wrong "bridal" in my second line. It should have, of course, been "bridle". I most humbly accept my rebuke and pleed for mersy. 8D
Pleese ficks it. Im starting to screem!!!!

I'd rather not. I don't want to let myself off the huk.

TCrony capitalism is not "unbridled".

Unbridled capitalism is any form of capitalism that has run amok - including the crony variety.

Dear God! Will he ever stop with the nitpicking?

Unbridled capitalism is any form of capitalism that has run amok - including the crony variety.

Dear God! Will he ever stop with the nitpicking?Oh don't wet your pants for goodness sake. If you don't mean it, then don't say it. But I forgot. With you it's always the other guys fault. "He took my statement seriously! How dare he!"

Evidently the best the dems have.

https://scontent.fmem1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/95819003_1955978214545865_8989721074308481024_n.jp g?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_ohc=yu1B9-a14o0AX9fTqMH&_nc_ht=scontent.fmem1-2.fna&oh=782a6be72491dc617dd27f785dce402d&oe=5EDA1A88

We know what the repubs are missing, thus the guns.

If I only had a...rain...crane...drain...frame...blame...oh well. Poor ole Joe. Trump is not great by any means, but next to Biden, he'll look like a genius.

so be ruled by a mad genius or a forgetfull geriatric, what a choice

If I only had a...rain...crane...drain...frame...blame...oh well. Poor ole Joe. Trump is not great by any means, but next to Biden, he'll look like a genius.
Let me know when it starts for Trump. I wanna see it for myself.

I think you will be waiting quite a while.

Oh don't wet your pants for goodness sake."

You are the one wetting his pants which you have been doing ever since you arrived here.

Imitation...sincerest form of flattery.

More Dufus stuff.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ap-exclusive-admin-shelves-cdc-guide-to-reopening-country/ar-BB13IuyC?ocid=spartanntp

I know, as more people file for unemployment and states can't process the new claims the dufus with holds information to safely open the economy, while publicly saying more people will die and get sick but the economy must open.

No quotes here, but I'm sure you have heard him say it because it's all over the TV.

You do realize that most of the economy is and has been open, and most people are still working? I'd love to see your reaction if we really shut down the economy to the point of no gas sales, no electrical service, no police or fire units at work, or no groceries being sold. Are you willing to do away with all of that?

Why should we engage in your hypotheticals when we have reality before us. As you point out most of the economy is open, and as I point out the science to deal with it is there, so my question is why it's not circulated, and implemented? Also we have thrown trillion at it, yet the people are slow to get it...WHY? I can trace most of the issues and a few more to mismanagement and lack of effective execution, but what are your thoughts?

What science are you referring to?

This could get you started.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6883734-CDC-Business-Plans.html

Questions? I have a lot. Like why isn't this a part of those calls to governors we hear so much about?

You haven't heard anyone talking about facemasks, hand washing, and keeping surfaces clean? That kind of sums up what was in the 17 page, small type document you googled and found about 30 minutes ago.

I'm asking what steps you know of that should be implemented but are not being talked about other than just shutting everything down and all of us starving to death.

You forgot the testing for the virus.

There's no testing being done in Texas??? Wow. We are testing. Probably could be expanded, but as of a month ago, the number was over a million nationwide.

So again, what are you suggesting we do that is not already being done?

A million tests between 50 states in how many months? That's abysmal in my book, how about yours? As for Texas, having as high as a hospital capacity as anywhere and lower rates of death and infections as most places, the bet is we can reopen slowly. Not sure I agree with that, but boggles my mind that the same tests hospitals use cannot be replicated on a mass scale everywhere. Don't you think mass testing is as important as PPE and all those other mitigation strategies are?

It was a million a month ago. It is far past that by now, but I would agree that testing is a key.

It was a million a month ago. It is far past that by now, but I would agree that testing is a key.

Doesn't seem to be much of a priority though even recognizing all that goes into such a massive undertaking. I think knowing who has what goes a long way in determining effective and targeted responses and countermeasures. I shouldn't be so surprised though considering how hard it is getting toilet paper, or watching food being wasted.

Neither makes a bit of sense to me.

That's what happens when you shut down much of the economy.

That's what happens when you shut down much of the economy.

You may well have to shut the economy down again if the virus continues on it's present trajectory, or gets even worse.

Sooner or later we are going to have to face that fact that a nation that is already drowning in debt thanks to the free spending ways of the presidents over the last twelve years is not going to be able to just shut down the economy and start whistling "Dixie". It doesn't work that way.

I agree we will need a management plan for our debts, and reopening the economy may take some managing too, and likely more time than we think. Previous recoveries have taken years though and much investment.

I would hope that a management plan would include not getting any deeper in debt. Good luck with that one.

Maybe we need better management, or reopen under NEW management.

Yeah. We could bring Obama back, or we could elect Biden. Oh wait! They doubled the debt during their eight years. So much for that idea.

Yeah. We could bring Obama back, or we could elect Biden. Oh wait! They doubled the debt during their eight years. So much for that idea.
They dug us out of the hole W had dumped us in.

Make America great again by dumping the Dufus. He just sent his CDC guidelines back for revision. What do we have to lose with Biden. We're already broke closed sick and dying. He would hardly be the first dem to come in and clean up the repubs mess. If we get rid of Moscow Mitch too, well new management just got better.


They dug us out of the hole W had dumped us in.

Amazing how we posted about the same thing at about the same time! Great minds...…!

They dug us out of the hole W had dumped us in.Yeah. The dems had nothing at all to do with that. Still, digging us out of a hole while digging us into an even deeper one??? Doesn't sound good to me.


What do we have to lose with Biden. What a ringing endorsement! "Vote for Biden. What do we have to lose?"

1. History revision conservative style.

2. The dufus says it and you believe it so believe me when I say it and mean it.

The dufus gets tested all the time and he looks heathy enough to shoot his mouth off everyday, so the key to getting things going again is get everybody tested often.


Must mention though he just had his valet test positive.

1. History revision conservative style.
You expected anything different? *smirk*

2. The dufus says it and you believe it so believe me when I say it and mean it.
Yay, tal!

The dufus gets tested all the time and he looks heathy enough to shoot his mouth off everyday, so the key to getting things going again is get everybody tested often.


Must mention though he just had his valet test positive.


He's really packing on the pounds. Something else may get him before the coronavirus does.

1. History revision conservative style.Oh don't be stupid. Obama doubled the national debt. It's settled history for everyone except, I guess, you, and now you know.


2. The dufus says it and you believe it so believe me when I say it and mean it.Now was that "you" as in for me, or was that the famous "generic you"? And should I take that literally, or should I take it metaphorically?


The dufus gets tested all the time and he looks heathy enough to shoot his mouth off everyday, so the key to getting things going again is get everybody tested often.Well of course. Why didn't someone at the top think of that already? We'll just order a few hundred million CV test kits from Amazon. They'll be here in a week or so, and we can just start and "get everybody tested often". Once a month sound good? It would only require about 4 billion test kits a year. No problem.

1. Recoveries are pretty expensive, thats why repubs went along with his spending. Wars off the books were expensive too, that's why he put Bushes wars ON the books. Look at the auto industry, wall street, the banks and the whole freaking world Obama saved so we all could recover from rich guy foolishness. Yes he added to the debt because cleaning up the mess was expensive. One day your kids will read about it in your history books. How he rescued everybody's arse and left the next guy something to work with. Of course the right hates him for it. That's okay, they hate everybody any way.

2. Doesn't matter how you take it, really.

3. The greatest nation in history, can't do what it takes to get the job done? Oh Yeah we need new management fast. Or live with the lie of how great we say we are, but ain't.

First of all, my apologies for my "stupid" comment. It was mean spirited and needless.

I think you greatly overstate what Obama did. In eight years he never came close to Trump's economy.

Not the U.S. or any other nation is testing anyone and everyone frequently. It is completely unreasonable to think we can, but we do need to increase availability and are doing so.

The charts don't lie do they?

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/9-charts-comparing-trump-economy-to-obama-bush-administrations-2019-9-1028833119#trade-is-one-of-trump-s-signature-issues-despite-his-aggressive-trade-moves-the-total-monthly-trade-deficit-in-goods-and-services-that-is-the-value-of-goods-and-services-exported-by-the-us-minus-the-value-of-imports-has-gotten-larger-in-the-last-couple-years-9



The Obama administration confronted the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression when it initially took office. It passed a massive stimulus package in February 2009 to jumpstart the economy - and it was successful. The Congressional Budget Office said in a report that GDP growth was higher from 2009-2012 in part due to the legislation.

Trump has benefited from Obama's economic stewardship, as GDP growth under his watch has consistently been between 2% to 3%. In 2018, GDP growth stood at 2.9%, but the economy expanded only 2.3% last year,
the weakest pace (https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/gdp-report-4q-us-economy-weakest-growth-trump-era-2019-2020-1-1028859830?utm_source=msn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=msn-slideshow&utm_campaign=bodyurl)
of his presidency yet.


Anybody following Obama would have a solid foundation on which to build on. So the dufus claims of what he has done is an exaggeration. Obama handled his crisis so we will see if the dufus handles his.

Easy to navigate clear waters, but the true test is how you handle your storms. Obama passed his tests. That's not an overstatement despite the constant drone of the right. I've never heard of this country claiming what it can't do. At least we give it a good try, but failing without trying is unacceptable.

Yep. Slowest recovery from a recession in a hundred years despite doubling the national debt. That Obama was sure an economic genius.

And now we are beginning to see beyond the top of the iceberg into the corruption of the Obama DOJ. Thank goodness M. Flynn has been released. All the way from AG Lynch's secret meeting with BC to this, the corruption is beginning to be made public. I hope it continues. That's a festering sore that needs to be cleaned up and bandaged for good. Thank goodness Trump had the good sense to fire Comey.

Yep. Slowest recovery from a recession in a hundred years despite doubling the national debt. That Obama was sure an economic genius.

And now we are beginning to see beyond the top of the iceberg into the corruption of the Obama DOJ. Thank goodness M. Flynn has been released. All the way from AG Lynch's secret meeting with BC to this, the corruption is beginning to be made public. I hope it continues. That's a festering sore that needs to be cleaned up and bandaged for good. Thank goodness Trump had the good sense to fire Comey.

Slow and steady got the job done.

Flynn hasn't been released it's up to the judge in his case to render a decision. Can't wait to see the dufus recovery. Hope it's better than his health crisis response. Until then I suppose I have to listen to his excuses, and you get to listen to my criticisms of him.

First of all, my apologies for my "stupid" comment. It was mean spirited and needless.

.

I think we see a pattern of behaviour here, now that you see it for yourself do something about it, like seeing a shrink

He said he was sorry and that's good enough for me. Will accept coffee and donuts...CHHHHHHHcolate!

Cream filled!

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.66enuowSJ5H0yd5zCmN-awHaHt&w=201&h=209&c=8&rs=1&qlt=90&dpr=1.85&pid=3.1&rm=2 (https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=mouth+watering+emoji&id=D45F598268F3677E5C18C1D7F925F384D91AAD87&FORM=IQFRBA)

That was funny. It's got to happen.

https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.mhNqdtEmdtgf58bNQryvsQHaEK?pid=Api&rs=1