got to be some vested interests at play here, Trump is going to place a tariff on French wine because the French dare to tax US tech giants who don't play the tax game well, we all have had enough of multi-nationals, most of them US who hide their income in tax havens. I have news for Trump it won't be long for other jurisdictions will follow suit and there will be nowhere to hide. Trump must know that eventually raising tariffs on your allies is an unfriendly act and there won't just be a trade war with China the rest of the world will react. This may be the last hurrah, Really I don't care, Australian wine will gain greater market share

So come on all you Trump supporters tell me what a great job your President is doing

He is doing a great job making his rich friends richer along with him and his family, and the poor people poorer, allies into enemies and loves all our enemies.

I oppose tarriffs ;ESPECIALLY on French wine. Sorry Clete Aussie wine is swill by comparison. The only way Trump loses a 2nd term is impeachment (aint happening ) and /or a severe downturn in the economy . He is playing with fire with these silly tariffs

I oppose tarriffs ;ESPECIALLY on French wine. Sorry Clete Aussie wine is swill by comparison. The only way Trump loses a 2nd term is impeachment (aint happening ) and /or a severe downturn in the economy . He is playing with fire with these silly tariffs

In all honesty Tom we sell you the swill and keep the good stuff for ourselves, some of it doesn't even get out of the district it is grown in. If our wine is swill what is that crap you produce in California. Remember the electorate is fickle and elections turn on getting your voters to the polls

Tariffs drive up prices and ruins markets, but of course the dufus lies and says he is making money off them and giving it to farmers as a subsidy. What a whopper that is, and I don't mean Burger King!

https://www.politicususa.com/2019/05/26/corrupt-foreign-donor-who-gives-to-gop-gets-62-million-in-trump-trade-war-aid.html

AND

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-07-25/u-s-to-start-rolling-out-16-billion-in-farm-aid-next-month

If our wine is swill what is that crap you produce in California.

Don't know ,never touch it . I drink French wine or local NY State wine.

[LEFT]

Don't know ,never touch it . I drink French wine or local NY State wine.

Yes they sell cheap french wine here too, vin ordinaire

mock it if you want to . the most common table wine from France is superior to the best Napa valley can produce ;and it beats the hell out of wines from Barossa and Clare Valley . They all taste like a glass full of wood chips in comparison .

mock it if you want to . the most common table wine from France is superior to the best Napa valley can produce ;and it beats the hell out of wines from Barossa and Clare Valley . They all taste like a glass full of wood chips in comparison .

Well Tom I can say to you that I am not in favour of Clare Valley Reisling, and I understand how french vin ordinaire would be superior to California but there are other districts you may not have heard of where they produce cold country wines. Mudgee for example, or even the Hunter valley. If all you know of Australian wines is South Australia it is not representative but I do like a nice gewertztraminer

Maybe that's whats wrong with the non drinking dufus! He can't find a suitable chablis that goes with a happy meal, or a bucket of KFC.

I've had hunter valley wines . Will look up Mudgee . I'm always willing to try a new one ..
gewertztraminer ? I drink Alsace brands not sure if they are technically French or German .... depending on the year I guess. Where is that ugh yellow tail from ?



chablis not really big on white wines . I usually buy a modestly priced table Bordeaux blanc from Rothchild vinyards . If you like Rose I recommend a Tavel . I drink a wide variety of French reds . I don't make commentary on people who don't drink . I've seen what alchoholism can do to some people ....and it is not a matter of quantity or frequency .To some with alchoholism being exposed to bourbon based barbeque sauce is enough to set them off.

Like I'm going to pass a chance to blast the dufus!

As long as people, prefer to buy imported items, all types, the economy of the US hurts. We saw the entire clothing industry close and leave America for Mexico, China, and now Vietnam.

The issue is that Americas do not want to pay the price for the America items, and prefer the Walmart imported good price. Many US wines are in imported bottles not US made bottles. I only buy local wines and have done so for years to help local businesses. The buy local campaign.

It would take time to adjust but America needs to get rid of most of the imports of all items, and bring industry back to America. A trip around any small southern town will find several factories closed, and many falling in, since no one wanted the business.

to each his own . a trade deficit means Americans have more freedom and consumer choice . For MY $$$$ ;French wines are a better value and quality . The only countries you should have trade wars with are your enemies . Having pissy tit-for tat tariffs with friendly nations harms economies . The President is stuck in 19th century mercantile thinking . Let me make it easy for him. The US is WINNING when it has a trade deficit with another country .

I've had hunter valley wines . Will look up Mudgee . I'm always willing to try a new one ..
gewertztraminer ? I drink Alsace
brands not sure if they are technically French or German .... depending on the year I guess. Where is that ugh yellow tail from ?



chablis not really big on white wines . I usually buy a modestly priced table Bordeaux blanc from Rothchild vinyards . If you like Rose I recommend a Tavel . I drink a wide variety of French reds . I don't make commentary on people who don't drink . I've seen what alchoholism can do to some people ....and it is not a matter of quantity or frequency .To some with alchoholism being exposed to bourbon based barbeque sauce is enough to set them off.

Yenda near Griffith, Italian wine not my drop

I no longer drink much wine, reds cause my gout to flare and our market is flooded with sauvignon blanc from NZ

to each his own . a trade deficit means Americans have more freedom and consumer choice . For MY $$$$ ;French wines are a better value and quality . The only countries you should have trade wars with are your enemies . Having pissy tit-for tat tariffs with friendly nations harms economies . The President is stuck in 19th century mercantile thinking . Let me make it easy for him. The US is WINNING when it has a trade deficit with another country .

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2019/08/01/Trump-US-to-levy-new-10-tariff-on-300B-of-Chinese-goods/7581564687444/

Louder he didn't hear you.

As long as people, prefer to buy imported items, all types, the economy of the US hurts. We saw the entire clothing industry close and leave America for Mexico, China, and now Vietnam.

The issue is that Americas do not want to pay the price for the America items, and prefer the Walmart imported good price. Many US wines are in imported bottles not US made bottles. I only buy local wines and have done so for years to help local businesses. The buy local campaign.

It would take time to adjust but America needs to get rid of most of the imports of all items, and bring industry back to America. A trip around any small southern town will find several factories closed, and many falling in, since no one wanted the business.
Chuck this is not good thinking, your nation doesn't need to be self sufficient in everything expecting others to buy from you goods which they cannot afford. Seriously do you think your people want to do the menial tasks for low wages. Your nation is not the only one who saw industries close. This is the economic cycle

Cars, etc are made in Mexico because it is a lower cost country exploited by your companies and there is a market. The same applies to industries in Asia. I know you have been in China. I expect it taught you the capacity of asians to get things done. Personally I am happy that my clothes no longer cost extortionate amounts
So buy local produce but don't distain good quality from other places

Ever notice that the trade deficit always shrinks when America is in recession ? A growing trade surplus can be a symptom of economic weakness.


https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2019...7581564687444/ (https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2019/08/01/Trump-US-to-levy-new-10-tariff-on-300B-of-Chinese-goods/7581564687444/)

Louder he didn't hear you.

I have a little less issue with certain tariffs on China . They are a predatory nation that practices unfair trade ;intellectual property theft etc . . That being said .........the Chinese sell more to the US than we buy from them . That creates a trade imbalance meaning more money goes to China . But what good is US dollars to China ? They don't hoard them . They reinvest them . And where do they do that ? Yup right here in the USA . They invest in companies . They also invest in US treasuries which they are getting at insanely low interest rates btw

We agree with those trade deficits. Not really a bad thing, but the Chinese are thirsty for some things we do well like energy, and technology, and engage in some pretty dirty illegal practices. Something has to be done but are tariffs the answer? Not by themselves but make 'em pay in the pocket...heavily through the law. I know, expensive and could take years, but I have to tell you that's the cost of doing business with the Chinese, and what you don't agree to share they will take for sure. Doesn't matter it seems if you go there, and as you pointed, out they come here with our dollars. The Chinese are also the MAIN reason we pulled out of the missile treaty with Russia, who was cheating any way, but we were handcuffed by it, and the Chinese were NOT. That playing field is leveled which means an arms race coming for sure.

The US is WINNING when it has a trade deficit with another country .


Trump is incapable of understanding this basic economic fact. That's not surprising since he is intellectually challenged in many areas.

But what about his advisors? Is there no one among all that "talent" who can explain the facts of economic life to the dufus?

Yes his advisors Larry Kudlow and Steve Moore are both free market advocates . Kudlow revised his strict position before he was selected to serve to say that China is such a blatant abuser that measures had to be taken .But I'm sure he disproves tariffs against allies . Trump has his own ways and frequently decides against what his advisors council . Maybe that explains some of the more frequent turnover . However it is not unusual to have ,as Lincoln had ,a team of rivals .

However it is not unusual to have ,as Lincoln had ,a team of rivals .

Is that what he has, a team of rivals? Thanks for clarifying that, it wasn't apparent. Please don't compare Trump to great men of the past, certainly not Lincoln, although he was also surrounded by incompetents

Why not if it applies ? I did not say that Lincoln was doing something wise by having rivals in his cabinet . In many ways it weakened his war efforts .

Politics is real, and there are many rivals, always one waiting in the shadows to take over, however, in the case of Trump it will be interesting to see if anyone is allowed to strut the stage long enough to do that

Obviously the dufus prefers sycophants that share his views and carries out his wishes and don't oppose him. Say something nice and he may give you a job, qualified or NOT. Stop or don't kiss the ring, you're out, often unceremoniously.

Obviously the dufus prefers sycophants that share his views and carries out his wishes and don't oppose him. Say something nice and he may give you a job, qualified or NOT. Stop or don't kiss the ring, you're out, often unceremoniously.
Nikki Haley has stopped kissing the ring. I hear she may be shopping for a ring of her own.

She correctly called out Trump for his making light tweet about Cummings'house being broken into. She tweeted
“This is so unnecessary.”
.There have been many Republican who think the President's use of Twitter is unnecessary . It is amazing that her response went viral. I think it was just her immediate reaction and not something politically calculated . But if she is planning a run I sat Go Nikki 2024 !

Somebody needs to muzzle that mad dog, and put him in a cage. I mean this self professed NATIONALIST is hollering hate fear and rats, while all the places that people go is the the next target for a loony mostly white nationalists. Worse than that, it's a CONSTANT barrage of nasty. He promised to fix stuff and hasn't done a darn thing but take credit for what half way works and tears down the rest.

You call this winning? I want to win but the only thing I'm getting tired of is his mouth.

She correctly called out Trump for his making light tweet about Cummings'house being broken into. She tweeted
“This is so unnecessary.”
.There have been many Republican who think the President's use of Twitter is unnecessary . It is amazing that her response went viral. I think it was just her immediate reaction and not something politically calculated . But if she is planning a run I sat Go Nikki 2024 !
I say, "Go, Nikki 2020!!!!"

Haley vs Dufus? I'm all for it.

not going to happen . But if she is the nominee she has my vote. Can't say the same for Trump.

not going to happen . But if she is the nominee she has my vote. Can't say the same for Trump.
Oooooo, I'm a registered Republican. I have to vote republican in the primary. Wonder if there's a campaign started for her.

Oooooo, I'm a registered Republican. I have to vote republican in the primary. Wonder if there's a campaign started for her.
Just write the name on the ticket

She also tweeted “Instead of all of this back and forth about who everyone thinks is racist and whose not, the President just offered to help the people of Baltimore,” “They should take him up on it. Let’s put the same energy into where it will make a difference.”

She supports Trump but though his tweet about Cummings' house being robbed
went too far. She is writing a book about serving Trump as UN Ambassador. Whatever plans she has as far as making a run is for 2024. There was speculation that Trump may offer her VP in a 2nd term. Trump said no ;that Pence was going to be his choice . That remains to be seen .

Enlighten me as to what kind of help the dufus intends to give the cities and at what costs? I heard his campaign declarations to fix stuff, as well as his criticism, but what's the plan man?

Enlighten me as to what kind of help the dufus intends to give the cities and at what costs?

I hope he is going to encourage them to elect mayors and council-members who actually know what they are doing. That will greatly help the people of those cities and won't force the fed government further into debt.

If you can deficit fund tax cuts for the rich in an already good economy, seems you can fund the inner cities to help solve their problems as well, if nothing else to save lives. I seriously doubt dems anywhere will listen to a lying cheating dufus who has blasted them from day one about anything.

If you can deficit fund tax cuts for the rich in an already good economy, seems you can fund the inner cities to help solve their problems as well, if nothing else to save lives.

They don't need more money. Go back and look at what Giuliani accomplished. It doesn't require more money. It does require people who are serious and know what they are doing.

Dems see money as solutions . If that were so LBJs war on poverty would've been won decades ago.

Baltimore spends more than 15K per pupil in their schools. That is several thousand more than we spend in my area, and yet our students would blow their's away. It all comes down to having people who mean business and are competent. The constant excuse-making by liberal dems just allows the disaster to continue. It's easier to blame it all on Trump and capitalism, neither of which makes sense. Students in Connecticut score amazingly well on standardized tests. Last time I checked, they are part of the U.S. and thus involved in both a capitalist economy and a Trump presidency.

I'll say it again there are good parts doing great in every big city, and their are the not so good parts where the poor folks are. Baltimore is no different despite you and the dufus trying to broad brush the whole city as a dump. I mean millionaires live their too and send them to great schools so cut the crap. Been there seen it, and why follow the dufus example of blasting the bad, and ignore the rest?

That's LOONY and deceptive by you conservatives. That's why you have few minorities among you. None in the house, one in the senate.

this is what happens when you bluff in poker, someone calls your bluff. but what if you are not playing poker, you are playing economic bluff?

if China were a capitalist economy the bluff might have worked, but China is a controlled economy. so Trump played his high stakes game and he is about to lose, the US may be a trading partner but China has many other trading partners so loss of US business hurts but it doesn't kill the economy. China has yet to play the next card, which is sell off the US junk bonds it has invested in and kill the US bond market. This is what happens when you allow a man with no economic credentials to call the shots. The Trump crash of 2019

That's LOONY and deceptive by you conservatives.

The school system is doing badly, violent crime is very high, and the city has lost about 300,000 in population over the past few decades, yet you seem to think the place is great. So you think I'm the one who is being "loony and deceptive"?

This is what happens when you allow a man with no economic credentials to call the shots.

No offense intended, but you are basically asking us to trust YOUR economic credentials. What are they?

No offense intended, but you are basically asking us to trust YOUR economic credentials. What are they?

Several economics studies are part of my degree as well as a micro economic study of rural electric distribution and numerous feasibility studies. So let's throw in a couple of fellowships and you can lay your economic cards on the table

Several economics studies are part of my degree as well as a micro economic study of rural electric distribution and numerous feasibility studies. So let's throw in a couple of fellowships and you can lay your economic cards on the table

Don't have any and don't claim to have any. You, from the sound of it, have taken a few courses in economics and made a study or two. Trump, on the other hand, has put together a business worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Again, no offense intended, but to compare the two of you, you have studied some economics, and he has actually put it into practice with great success. And yet you want to refer to him as a man with "no economic credentials". That's kind of funny since he does have a degree in economics.

Now you might be right concerning his handling of China. I don't know, but to suggest he has no economic credentials is just not correct.

I find it fascinating you call for credentials to verify believability, while having none of your own, and often disagree and blast others for differing perspectives. I'll remember that when we debate tax cuts, less revenue, and stealing from the poor, since I know you hate the gubmint taking YOUR money and giving to someone you say doesn't deserve it, but are okay with having YO' money go into the pockets of the dufus and his friends while you pay for stuff we all need.

Clete points about this trade war is spot on and I agree for the reasons given.



I don't know, but to suggest he has no economic credentials is just not correct.


You don't know how he makes his money, just what he tells you about. You know he LIES, CHEATS, and STEALS for sure, and YOU have never asked him to verify HIS credentials. Dope dealers and criminals are rich too.

I find it fascinating you call for credentials to verify believability, while having none of your own, and often disagree and blast others for differing perspectives. I'll remember that when we debate tax cuts, less revenue, and stealing from the poor, since I know you hate the gubmint taking YOUR money and giving to someone you say doesn't deserve it, but are okay with having YO' money go into the pockets of the dufus and his friends while you pay for stuff we all need.

If you would bother to read Clete's comment, which is what I was responding to, he alleged Trump had no credentials in economy, so I was pointing out that, in truth, Trump's credentials were a good bit better than Clete's. I have never claimed to have any thing other than an opinion in economics, so I'm not going to disagree with Trump and then claim he has no economic credentials. That is simply not true.



You don't know how he makes his money, just what he tells you about. You know he LIES, CHEATS, and STEALS for sure, and YOU have never asked him to verify HIS credentials. Dope dealers and criminals are rich too.

Well, I know he built a multi-billionaire company. I know you haven't, I haven't, and Clete hasn't, so I am willing to give him so credit for that. You hate him too much to give him credit for anything, and instead you accuse him of criminal activity which I think is unfortunate.

Bilking contractors, and consumers, as well as padding his billing accounts, as well as his famous not renting to blacks are such admirable qualities and business practices. I don't have to hate the person so much as hating what he does and how he does it.

Bilking contractors, and consumers, as well as padding his billing accounts, as well as his famous not renting to blacks are such admirable qualities and business practices. I don't have to hate the person so much as hating what he does and how he does it.

If it makes you feel better. I'm sure that her sterling character is why you voted for HC.

How many times have I heard that? How do you hold your nose and fold your arms at the same time? I have to go cut my toenails, let me know when you are back to 2019, from your good old days ruminations.

How many times have I heard that? How do you hold your nose and fold your arms at the same time? I have to go cut my toenails, let me know when you are back to 2019, from your good old days ruminations.

I just like to point out to the Holy Joes that they have no room to talk when it comes to character. I'll take a vibrant, healthy economy with Trump over stagnation with HC any day of the week. It makes holding my nose a lot more tolerable.

If that makes you feel better, but by that metric you can't talk either, since you have no evidence whatsoever that an HC economy would be stagnated. You like to speculate to make stuff up.

How come Ms hasn't caught that vibrant economy yet?

If that makes you feel better, but by that metric you can't talk either, since you have no evidence whatsoever that an HC economy would be stagnated. You like to speculate to make stuff up.

Fair enough.


How come Ms hasn't caught that vibrant economy yet?

Unemployment is 5%. Sounds pretty good to me. Could be better, but certainly better than the Obama years.

if China were a capitalist economy the bluff might have worked, but China is a controlled economy. so Trump played his high stakes game and he is about to lose, the US may be a trading partner but China has many other trading partners so loss of US business hurts but it doesn't kill the economy. China has yet to play the next card, which is sell off the US junk bonds it has invested in and kill the US bond market. This is what happens when you allow a man with no economic credentials to call the shots. The Trump crash of 2019

The falacy here is the assumption that China and US are trading partners and not competitors . I don't mind what he is doing with China. But he should be up front to the US people what is at stake . He's asking us to do the equivalent of going into economic war footing . China will not sell off it's US debt holding because they have no better place to put their capital . That was one of the reasons I cited for the benefits of having a trade deficit with a nation. We bought their goods and paid for it with fiat currency . They are holding on to that and have no place to reinvest it except right back in the US.

Trump is trying to get them back to the table . But it is their economy in peril ,not ours . Yes this can cause pain and if his base doesn't understand it he is taking political risks .
But
China is financing continued cheap exports on the backs of it’s citizens now, who are about to get smashed with hyperinflation due to the devaluation .So let's see who blinks first .

If you would bother to read Clete's comment, which is what I was responding to, he alleged Trump had no credentials in economy, so I was pointing out that, in truth, Trump's credentials were a good bit better than Clete's. I have never claimed to have any thing other than an opinion in economics, so I'm not going to disagree with Trump and then claim he has no economic credentials. That is simply not true.



Well, I know he built a multi-billionaire company. I know you haven't, I haven't, and Clete hasn't, so I am willing to give him so credit for that. You hate him too much to give him credit for anything, and instead you accuse him of criminal activity which I think is unfortunate.

You know, you are full of it and you know nothing about me and what I have achieved in life and I don't have to justify mysself to you. My qualifications in economic as are at least as good as Trump's and from a practical standpoint far exceed his. He has demonstrated little understanding and has relied entirely on bravado and B/S. You want to brown nose for him, go ahead, but I won't give him a pass for being destructive

Unemployment is 5%. Sounds pretty good to me. Could be better, but certainly better than the Obama years.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/10/30/two-charts-show-trumps-job-gains-are-just-a-continuation-from-obamas-presidency/#7a62e1e81af3


The falacy here is the assumption that China and US are trading partners and not competitors . I don't mind what he is doing with China. But he should be up front to the US people what is at stake . He's asking us to do the equivalent of going into economic war footing . China will not sell off it's US debt holding because they have no better place to put their capital . That was one of the reasons I cited for the benefits of having a trade deficit with a nation. We bought their goods and paid for it with fiat currency . They are holding on to that and have no place to reinvest it except right back in the US.

Trump is trying to get them back to the table . But it is their economy in peril ,not ours . Yes this can cause pain and if his base doesn't understand it he is taking political risks .
But
China is financing continued cheap exports on the backs of it’s citizens now, who are about to get smashed with hyperinflation due to the devaluation .So let's see who blinks first .


Beats bombs and blood and guts but may be a long hard slog.

Beats bombs and blood and guts but may be a long hard slog.

What Trump has done is destabilise major trade relationships, and for what purpose? China and America are hardly economic rivals but they are political rivals. If Trump hopes to block other trading partners of China to American advantage he lacks understanding. China has more than a billion people to look after and millions to lift out of poverty. Their focus is largely inward and their actions for local consumption.

Noone but Trump speaks of bombs and blood and guts. America should remember that the last time they met China on the battleground it was a stalemate despite America's firepower and economic advantage. If Trump wants to have cheap labour industries in America he only has to open the borders. You see I see basic flaws in his thinking and this is because it is based on B/S

You know, you are full of it and you know nothing about me and what I have achieved in life and I don't have to justify mysself to you. My qualifications in economic as are at least as good as Trump's and from a practical standpoint far exceed his. He has demonstrated little understanding and has relied entirely on bravado and B/S. You want to brown nose for him, go ahead, but I won't give him a pass for being destructive

Good grief. You are so sensitive! I was not being critical of you. Yeah, I don't know much about you, so that's why I asked.

But when you say that from a practical standpoint your credentials far exceed his, you make me laugh out loud. So you've built a multinational business worth hundreds of millions of dollars? Wow. What a preposterous statement. And I doubt that you have any more than a slight idea of what he has relied on.

I'm not a Trump supporter, but I do appreciate the truth.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjo.../#7a62e1e81af3

Did they mention that Obama had the weakest recovery from a recession in postwar history, with not a single quarter of GDP growth above 3%?

"This result is not just bad, it is catastrophic. The average American should not be wondering if his or her income is a bit above or below 2007 levels. Just by historical averages, the average American should be 20% better off than in 2007. And this slow growth is settling in as a permanent new-abnormal."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rexsinquefield/2016/11/29/obama-and-the-dems-dismal-recovery/#335023f4cb0e

But when you say that from a practical standpoint your credentials far exceed his, you make me laugh out loud. So you've built a multinational business worth hundreds of millions of dollars? Wow. What a preposterous statement. And I doubt that you have any more than a slight idea of what he has relied on.

.

I never said I built an international business but I have managed a large business and established successful businesses from scratch without benefit of family money. No business I was associated with became bankrupt. Now you stack that up against a cheat who relied on financial thuggery to profit and like you I appreciate truth.

The whole point of the argument I have put forward is Trump's unconventional dealings will and are creating chaos. However, as you obviously agree with his beggar my neighbour policies I don't expect you to understand

I never said I built an international business but I have managed a large business and established successful businesses from scratch without benefit of family money. No business I was associated with became bankrupt. Now you stack that up against a cheat who relied on financial thuggery to profit and like you I appreciate truth.

Fair enough, and I have no doubt you have a solid knowledge of economics, but it's still a stretch of serious dimensions to suggest that your economic credentials "far exceed" Trump's. I feel quite certain that you have no idea of how Trump built his businesses.


However, as you obviously agree with his beggar my neighbor policies I don't expect you to understand


So we just have to depend upon your wise insights? I think I'll pass on that one. I do agree with Trump's intention to no longer allow China to take advantage of open U.S. markets. Now is his strategy the right one? I don't know, but the idea of endless international trade negotiations plainly did not work.

I have more up to date data

https://www.statista.com/statistics/188185/percent-chance-from-preceding-period-in-real-gdp-in-the-us/

And

https://www.statista.com/statistics/188165/annual-gdp-growth-of-the-united-states-since-1990/

I don't know, but the idea of endless international trade negotiations plainly did not work.

I think you are right on both counts and it was painless too

I have more up to date data

I was in error in my statement. I should have said he did not have a single YEAR of GDP growth above 3%, not quarter. I wouldn't suggest that Obama was an economic disaster, but it took a doubling of the national debt to do it, and still the results were lukewarm, being the slowest recovery from recession since WW2. I'm not sure that Trump is not guilty of the same thing in that he is also running enormous deficits, but the economy is plainly in much better shape than it was under Obama. Reagan came into office with challenges at least the equal of Obama's and probably even more severe, but he had several years of great economic growth in his two terms, producing SIX years of GDP growth in excess of 3%, so I don't accept the idea that Obama did a great job.

I think that endless talking on multiple fronts is a healthy thing for international relationships. China does many things that can stand adjustments, but trade deficits isn't one of them. No one on Earth can match the US economy, so a deficit is expected. Nor can we expect any country to let our businesses come in and run roughshod over their economy or country. I think you have to keep talking in ANY relationship, be it individuals or countries to arrive at the consensus to move forward that works for both sides.

Wild soaring rhetoric and badmouthing just escalates tensions and leads down a path of intransigence. Even on this forum! *D.

GUILTY!!

I think you have to keep talking in ANY relationship, be it individuals or countries to arrive at the consensus to move forward that works for both sides.

So how did that work out for the Brits when they were negotiating with Hitler in 39? Negotiations are fine as long as both sides mean business, but frequently it comes down to, "How much of your stuff do I intend to take? Let's talk about that." That is what negotiating with the Chinese is like.


No one on Earth can match the US economy, so a deficit is expected.

Why is that true?


Nor can we expect any country to let our businesses come in and run roughshod over their economy or country.


Why should we expect them to run roughshod over our American businesses with their unfair trading practices? Can't we develop enough backbone to stand up for ourselves and for our own citizens?

Most of the world is just fine with accepting the safety of the security net provided by us as long as they don't have to pay for it or even be the least bit appreciative of it. They are perfectly happy to accept our markets and money and will gladly negotiate from now til doomsday as long as nothing real is expected of them. I'm glad Trump is finally saying, "Play fair or be prepared to suffer." I realize it is risky, but it is time to try something else.

So how did that work out for the Brits when they were negotiating with Hitler in 39? Negotiations are fine as long as both sides mean business, but frequently it comes down to, "How much of your stuff do I intend to take? Let's talk about that." That is what negotiating with the Chinese is like.

Yes the reality is sometimes talking doesn't work, especially when one side or the other is stuck in their position or unwilling to compromise, or and it happens, is deceptive or unwilling to trust...or verify.




No one on Earth can match the US economy, so a deficit is expected.

Why is that true?

I doubt many countries are even capable for whatever reason to take our stuff in the same volume we take theirs.


Why should we expect them to run roughshod over our American businesses with their unfair trading practices? Can't we develop enough backbone to stand up for ourselves and for our own citizens?

That's great in our country, but when we go there it's their rules, and Big Biz can abide or NOT. Of course American biz cares about the profits before people HERE, so they likely take that attitude where ever they go.


Most of the world is just fine with accepting the safety of the security net provided by us as long as they don't have to pay for it or even be the least bit appreciative of it. They are perfectly happy to accept our markets and money and will gladly negotiate from now til doomsday as long as nothing real is expected of them. I'm glad Trump is finally saying, "Play fair or be prepared to suffer." I realize it is risky, but it is time to try something else.

Good point but what nation on Earth besides us can pay nearly a trillion bucks a year for the tools of safety and security? 2% of their GDP is the NATO rate, and they don't PAY us, they join us as best they can. Sometimes they can't afford it. Understandable as conditions are different, but as far as being grateful, I don't get that since when the shooting start they seem to be there. It's coordinated not just follow me because I said so.

You do realize economically we dominate the world as it is bar none. Militarily we dominate the world also. You want grateful subjects then you don't just dominate but socially and culturally we all do our thing. You think you can demand gratitude and loyalty? You do realize that it's big Biz that sets the pace economically as in China and anyone that doesn't think our government isn't as involved in big biz as they are is crazy.

Like we don't manipulate the markets, more than they do.

China and America are hardly economic rivals no really ,we are . The US did not know it through 3 administrations but that doesn't change the fact .


If Trump wants to have cheap labour industries in America he only has to open the borders. No we don't want cheap labor industries . But our trading partners south of the border wouldn't mind US purchasing from them instead of China . We have options besides being hot pokered up the keaster by the Chinese

That's great in our country, but when we go there it's their rules, and Big Biz can abide or NOT. Of course American biz cares about the profits before people HERE, so they likely take that attitude where ever they go.

When I read comments like that, it makes me want to put on a MAGA cap and support someone who actually cares about American businesses and the workers who depend on those businesses.


2% of their GDP is the NATO rate, and they don't PAY us, they join us as best they can. Sometimes they can't afford it.

So Germany, France, the UK, Norway, Japan, and Sweden can't afford to do their fair share? Really? Germany is actually 1.2%. Japan is less than 1%. We are 23 tril in debt, partly because of having to defend countries who are not interested in defending themselves. Israel is spending 5% of GDP on defense, so I won't get teary eyed about expecting wealthy European nations to do their part.


You do realize economically we dominate the world as it is bar none. Militarily we dominate the world also. You want grateful subjects then you don't just dominate but socially and culturally we all do our thing. You think you can demand gratitude and loyalty? You do realize that it's big Biz that sets the pace economically as in China and anyone that doesn't think our government isn't as involved in big biz as they are is crazy.

Yeah. If we are going to protect their rear ends, then I would like to see some gratitude and loyalty. I'd like to see us pull out of a lot of these places and let them fend for themselves. We cannot afford to continue to be the world's policeman and security guard.

When I read comments like that, it makes me want to put on a MAGA cap and support someone who actually cares about American businesses and the workers who depend on those businesses.

You don't have a MAGA hat? I'm shocked!

You don't have a MAGA hat? I'm shocked!

Not the shirt, hat, bumper sticker, or anything else. However, I could be talked into a "Give American business a level playing field" bumper sticker.

American business RUNS the whole country already. Has for a very long time.

American business elected a democrat House? I don't think so.

Business does what business does, however I don't recall businesses despite being regarded as entities been given the vote

Individuals have the vote, but the big money has the control of the laws, how they are written and enforced, no matter who you voted for. That's why half the eligible voters don't bother to vote in the first place.

Businesses "vote" by paying off the elected officials. They do this by contributing to their PACS and campaigns and in other nefarious ways. The elected officials then vote as their business masters desire while telling the ordinary citizen voter that their needs are being addressed. This has been the Republican playbook for many decades. It is also partially the Democratic playbook but to a lesser degree.

It is important to understand the Republicans are basically a monolithic block worshiping profits and greed. The Democrats are anything but monolithic, being a "big tent" with many different constituencies contained therein.

In a country so dedicated to "getting ahead" and finding happiness in "things", it is natural for the political system to reflect those false values. An American meme is that each generation must be better off (materially) than the previous generation. That bit of nonsense is the result of a "consumer culture" that constantly feeds on itself. Better a culture that concentrates on the unfairly treated segment of society where the meme is appropriate.

There is no better proof of these ideas than the current occupant of the White House. Donald Trump personifies the worst in America, a gross consumer with an ever-widening maw to take in everything he can. He has fooled a sizable portion of the populace with his "money, money, money" theme song, but it is to be hoped his day of reckoning is not far off.

This country is in desperate need of leaders with integrity and decency.

It is important to understand the Republicans are basically a monolithic block worshiping profits and greed. The Democrats are anything but monolithic, being a "big tent" with many different constituencies contained therein.

Conservatives generally vote republican. Liberals generally vote democrat. That's about as monolithic as it gets in both cases.

imagine all those poor, rural ,barely making ends meet, Republican voters ;and the Dems thinking they worship profits and greed .

Yeah. All those who belong in the basket of deplorables.

I think most dems are clear we are referring to some rich elites as worshipping profits and are greedy. They sure aren't thinking about those rural poor folks are they?

I think most dems are clear we are referring some rich elites as worshipping profits and are greedy.

"It is important to understand the Republicans are basically a monolithic block worshiping profits and greed."

Hmm.

Politics make strange bedfellows. Both parties are made up of groups with agendas. The dufus has subverted the republican party. Or polluted and corrupted it for his own agenda.

Politics make strange bedfellows. Both parties are made up of groups with agendas. The dufus has subverted the republican party. Or polluted and corrupted it for his own agenda.

You give Trump too much power, they wanted a candidate who could win, they got it, anything else is the price of doing a deal with the devil

The dufus has subverted the republican party. Or polluted and corrupted it for his own agenda.

As opposed to the absolute moral purity of the democrats??? Please. No one is going to buy that. The whole "Green New Deal" lunacy is proof of that. The democrats have accepted an idea concocted by a very dumb and idealistic young person which would completely bankrupt the country and even then accomplish but very little. If I was Trump, I'd make AOC and her buddies the face of the democratic party. I'd run ads with her face and words on them constantly, and then remind everyone that the democrat candidates for pres have bought into her nonsense.

You give Trump too much power, they wanted a candidate who could win, they got it, anything else is the price of doing a deal with the devil

He had help lots of it and all repubs wanted at least the behind the scenes power elite was to shrink government and run their own agenda which is to do as they please, and that's what they got.


As opposed to the absolute moral purity of the democrats??? Please. No one is going to buy that. The whole "Green New Deal" lunacy is proof of that. The democrats have accepted an idea concocted by a very dumb and idealistic young person which would completely bankrupt the country and even then accomplish but very little. If I was Trump, I'd make AOC and her buddies the face of the democratic party. I'd run ads with her face and words on them constantly, and then remind everyone that the democrat candidates for pres have bought into her nonsense.

The country will be bankrupt all right but not from AOC or any of those young idealists. I see you adopt the spin of the dufus noise machine.

The Republican philosophy of endless greed and acquisition is always couched in platitudes designed to hide their true motivations. They were dog whistling and gaslighting long before those terms were in common usage. There have always been exceptions - Eisenhower, McCain, etc.

The country will be bankrupt all right but not from AOC or any of those young idealists. I see you adopt the spin of the dufus noise machine.

If you really think that's true then you plainly don't know the first thing about the Green New Deal.

If you really think that's true then you plainly don't know the first thing about the Green New Deal.

Neither do you, since it was just an idea, and not a plan. Of course you vilify it, and her since you see her as a threat to your agenda and disrupts your status quo. The dufus plans to make her the face of the dems to further add to the fear of minorities taking over your country. That seems to be enough to justify the cruel words and actions directed at them.

You deny his dog whistles and racism, so you are not tarnished by that brush. Too Late! You laid down with the dog and now you have his fleas!

Neither do you, since it was just an idea, and not a plan.

It has been put before the House as a resolution, so it IS a plan.

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/07/691997301/rep-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-releases-green-new-deal-outline

A non binding resolution to be discussed and debated and could take YEARS to formulate. I thought you liked a great economy and plenty of jobs for your grandkids and their kids?

A non binding resolution to be discussed and debated and could take YEARS to formulate.

To call such a resolution a mere "idea" is ridiculous. You might as well admit it. It is a plan in every sense of the word. Does it contain every detail? No, but no plan starts off by covering every detail.

To call such a resolution a mere "idea" is ridiculous. You might as well admit it. It is a plan in every sense of the word. Does it contain every detail? No, but no plan starts off by covering every detail.


You brought up the Green New Deal and called it a plan.

Then you brought up the non-binding resolution and called it a plan.

Tal called the non-binding resolution a non-binding resolution.

You need to stop confusing yourself. Have some Kool-Aid.

You brought up the Green New Deal and called it a plan.

To call the 14 page resolution presented before the house, which was filled with specific goals and many steps to take, simply an "idea" is completely wrong. Tal's initial comment concerned an "idea". You need to learn to read more carefully. He only wanted to run to the non-binding resolution story when it became obvious that it was ridiculous to call that an "idea".

To call the many paged resolution presented before the house, which was filled with specific goals and many steps to take, simply an "idea" is completely wrong. Tal's initial comment concerned an "idea". You need to learn to read more carefully. He only wanted to run to the non-binding resolution story when it became obvious that it was ridiculous to call that an "idea".


He called the Green New Deal an idea. YOU called it a plan. Tal referred to the non-binding resolution as just that.

Jeez, talk about reading carefully - you take the cake!!

He called the Green New Deal an idea. YOU called it a plan. Tal referred to the non-binding resolution as just that.

Where did I say otherwise? Tal's statement was, "Neither do you, since it was just an idea, and not a plan." And my reply was, and remains, that to call a 14 page house resolution an "idea" is ridiculous political speech. A plan is "a specific project or definite purpose". Yep, it's a plan.

Tal's statement was, "Neither do you, since it was just an idea, and not a plan." And my reply was, and remains, that to call a 14 page house resolution an "idea" is ridiculous political speech.



His "idea" referred to the Green New Deal, -NOT the resolution. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then YOU referred to the resolution as a PLAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Geezawmighty!!! You really really really need to slow down and read. And stop with the silly who said what!

STAY WITH THE ISSUE WHATEVER IT MAY BE!!!! You have a habit of doing this and it gets us nowhere. A touch here and there is ok, but don't go overboard.

His "idea" referred to the Green New Deal, -NOT the resolution. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then YOU referred to the resolution as a PLAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Geezawmighty!!! You really really really need to slow down and read. And stop with the silly who said what!

STAY WITH THE ISSUE WHATEVER IT MAY BE!!!! You have a habit of doing this and it gets us nowhere. A touch here and there is ok, but don't go overboard.

Adding exclamation marks does not prove your point.

The resolution identifies itself as the Green New Deal. The resolution is a plan. I was the one who brought it up and Tal tried to excuse it as simply an "idea" to make it, I guess, more politically acceptable. But have it anyway you want. It's a stupid idea/plan that will bankrupt the country.

I give up. You win.

I LIKE exclamation points!!!!!

I LIKE exclamation points!!!!!

Evidently so.

Call it a plan or call it an idea. I don't care, but you really should read it to see what that non-thinking person is suggesting we do. It would be a nightmare. Just about every democrat running for pres has endorsed it with the possible exception of Biden.

Adding exclamation marks does not prove your point.

The resolution identifies itself as the Green New Deal. The resolution is a plan. I was the one who brought it up and Tal tried to excuse it as simply an "idea" to make it, I guess, more politically acceptable. But have it anyway you want. It's a stupid idea/plan that will bankrupt the country.

It just dawned on me that you don't have a clue of what you're talking about! You're just mimicking the right wing talking points given to you by the repub noise machine. I know for fact you haven't read the green new deal so have no clue what's in it. It is going to happen in one form or another though and it started decades ago, despite the billions spent to stop it.

It just dawned on me that you don't have a clue of what you're talking about! You're just mimicking the right wing talking points given to you by the repub noise machine. I know for fact you haven't read the green new deal so have no clue what's in it. It is going to happen in one form or another though and it started decades ago, despite the billions spent to stop it.

The GND started with AOC less than a year ago. You have no idea what you are saying. Some of the basic ideas have, of course, been around longer than that, but the GND pulled them together into one insane package. I linked it. Try reading it.

This will no doubt astonish you, but the repubs don't bother to send me talking points. I'm not a republican so why would they?

There is no Green New Deal. Just some bullet points .
Saikat Chakrabarti AOCs former chief of staff admitted that the GND had nothing to do with the environment .
“The interesting thing about the Green New Deal, is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all,” “Do you guys think of it as a climate thing?” Because we really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing,” he added.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/magazine/wp/2019/07/10/feature/how-saikat-chakrabarti-became-aocs-chief-of-change/

There is no Green New Deal.

14 pages of bullet points? I don't think so. Read it. It speaks of a series of goals being accomplished within 10 years.

https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=5731829-Ocasio-Cortez-Green-New-Deal-Resolution

I have some nice fairy tale goals too . Just sprinky some pixi dust and fly type of stuff .Any serious bill that comes out of it is DOA even in a Pelosi Congress.

Any serious bill that comes out of it is DOA even in a Pelosi Congress.

You are probably right about that, but the danger is that left-wingers will start to pound that message of "We must do something in the next twelve years." It may be that there are enough dumb people around to buy into that.

don't bother doing anything, it is too late and would be too little anyway, that is, if you are a true believer but some of us have weighed the evidence and understand that there was never a moment when we could have done more than standby and watch

don't bother doing anything, it is too late and would be too little anyway, that is, if you are a true believer but some of us have weighed the evidence and understand that there was never a moment when we could have done more than standby and watch

Good observation. There is a train of thought that, even if the extreme global warming scenario is true, it would be a lot cheaper to simply adapt rather than try and reverse it. At any rate, the day of carbon fuels are probably limited anyway.

Good observation. There is a train of thought that, even if the extreme global warming scenario is true, it would be a lot cheaper to simply adapt rather than try and reverse it. At any rate, the day of carbon fuels are probably limited anyway.

Even if we stopped using all carbon fuels today, it would not make any difference. The opposite is true. If you examine the evidence of long term climate you realise that we are on the precipice of an ice age. Carbon fuels may be needed to survive but anyway this has always been a northern hemisphere problem and I wish you luck

the retreat of the glaciers from the last ice age began long before the combustible engine .

This is true and must tell us something but noone wants to listen. You can't sell solar cells and windmills if you can't believe in AGW, it is the greatest con of the age, even better than aluminium siding, even in my country there are millions of solar cells on roofs and vast wind farms, and all it has done for us is to make us more prone to major power outages. The world tells us we are among the greatest polluters and yet our skys are clear, the air is crisp and clean, and we have met our targets

You Aussies don't know what your doing. Your black/brown outs aren't caused by solar or wind, that's over capacity. Nothing to do with AGW. Just grid management.

How would over capacity cause a brown out?

The system cannot handle the load without an engineer reroute and adding an additional power source. The grid is made of many sources depending on size. For example, everyone in a sector running AC in the middle of the day, or as in Texas, the Cowboys are playing, and the stadium DEMNDS a lot of energy. The weather is a factor also. It's about demand and meeting that demand. Grid efficiency and managing that demand is the priority.

Increase capacity in one sector usually means decrease for another during times of high demand.

here is NY we are about to depart on a most reckless experiment . WE are about to shut down the most reliable source we have powering the New York City area , Indian Point nuclear plant. We have an abundance of natural gas that the Democrat machine will not allow us to tap into . We cannot pipe in gas because il Duce Cuomo (brother of Fredo) will not allow the construction of pipelines. The next largest source is hydro power generated in the far North West of the State from the Niagara River . That has to be transmitted ;a 400 mile wire travel with all the energy loss along the way. So when we start getting brown outs and black outs it will not be because over capacity . It will be because of insufficient capacity .

You Aussies don't know what your doing. Your black/brown outs aren't caused by solar or wind, that's over capacity. Nothing to do with AGW. Just grid management.

That is called mismanagement by socialist state governments who took down the coal fired generation (base load) without any backup. They would not have done this if ratbags had not advocated removal of these assets because of AGW

The system cannot handle the load without an engineer reroute and adding an additional power source. The grid is made of many sources depending on size. For example, everyone in a sector running AC in the middle of the day, or as in Texas, the Cowboys are playing, and the stadium DEMNDS a lot of energy. The weather is a factor also. It's about demand and meeting that demand. Grid efficiency and managing that demand is the priority.

Increase capacity in one sector usually means decrease for another during times of high demand.

Yes, but I don't think that is over-capacity. Wouldn't over-capacity mean having more generating capacity than is needed?

Darn if you're not right. Been in the Texas heat too much today. *D I described under capacity.


"You Aussies don't know what your doing. Your black/brown outs aren't caused by solar or wind, that's under capacity*. Nothing to do with AGW. Just grid management."

*supply cannot meet demand.

Darn if you're not right. Been in the Texas heat too much today. *D I described under capacity.

I try to be right once every two or three years. (<:

I try to be right once every two or three years. (<:

How's that working for you?

How's that working for you?

Pretty good. You should try it!!

No need

Did anyone of you catch the dufus admit to his lies about the Chinese paying the tariffs he imposed? If they are not then where is the money coming from to pay the farmers that are affected by those tariffs?

I caught that. He also said the tax cut for the "middle class"(?) was costing him 3-5 BILLION dollars!!! Of course, he still won't show his tax returns.

How about that right wing loony from Iowa Steve King justifying removing the rape and incest exception from an abortion bill because humanity wouldn't be here without rape and incest. I gotta tell ya, while we holler about AOC, these nut jobs are going over the cliff. I've seen drunks that make more sense.

The dufus has drove them crazier than they ever were.

https://crooksandliars.com/2019/08/steve-king-if-not-rape-and-incest-would

How about that right wing loony from Iowa Steve King justifying removing the rape and incest exception from an abortion bill because humanity wouldn't be here without rape and incest. I gotta tell ya, while we holler about AOC, these nut jobs are going over the cliff. I've seen drunks that make more sense.

The dufus has drove them crazier than they ever were.

https://crooksandliars.com/2019/08/s...d-incest-would

Thank goodness you get your news for such an imminently neutral website as "Crooks and Liars". I had to laugh at that.

If you listen to the video, I don't think King was seriously trying to suggest that the entire population of the earth is here because of rape and incest. But I guess it would be much better if he agreed with virtually all democrats that abortion should be legal for any and all reasons, including gender and race selection, and should be legal all the way up until the moment of birth, and with some democrats, even for some period of time after the child is born. Yes, that would be a much more sensible position.

If you check that was but one source derived from several sources reporting the same thing. It was a stupid argument you cannot defend and another example how you alt right thumpers try to subvert the system. You want to build your coalition on the social issues that's fine but just as you have done brought our most extreme left ideas practiced by a few so I have highlighted the right extremes utterances also. Most of us pro or con is more moderately in the middle and just as you hate to be broad brushed and pigeon holed with ultra extreme ideas and antics, so do us sensible moderates.

A loony is a loony, right or left to me, so at least act like you know the difference. Should we be debating the merits of rounding up supposedly illegal migrants at work in your area and the place is still open for business?

If you check that was but one source derived from several sources.


Yes, but it was the one you chose to link. At any rate, I listened to the video rather than trust your ultra left wing site.


Should we be debating the merits of rounding up supposedly illegal migrants at work in your area and the place is still open for business?

Why do you think they are "supposedly" illegal? If they are here illegally, then they are illegal. End of story. As to the plants, they did reopen but with only a small workforce and at a much reduced rate. I wonder how many healthy people there are living around those plants who are getting welfare and doing nothing? Why not put them to work?

They had to release hundreds until they can be processed, but my point was that shouldn't the owners be held accountable for hiring illegals, and minors?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/after-680-arrested-in-mississippi-ice-raids-hundreds-of-workers-released-but-terror-persists-today-2019-08-08/

Is CBS a left wing organization? Wonder why the state welfare authority never tried to get those lazy Ms. welfare people jobs at those plants that have been there for decades.

I intentionally used the left wing source that got it from the mainstream reporting.

They had to release hundreds until they can be processed, but my point was that shouldn't the owners be held accountable for hiring illegals, and minors?

I think that's a good point.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/after-6...ay-2019-08-08/


Is CBS a left wing organization? Wonder why the state welfare authority never tried to get those lazy Ms. welfare people jobs at those plants that have been there for decades.

A good question.

Here's another one to think about. While the dufus gets everyone riled up about the brown invasion, he and Moscow Mitch have been lifting sanctions and allowing Russian business to invest in America, specifically in Kentucky, but are planning to expand into 8 other states with poor regions of the country.

What's wrong with that picture.

Here's another one to think about. While the dufus gets everyone riled up about the brown invasion, he and Moscow Mitch have been lifting sanctions and allowing Russian business to invest in America, specifically in Kentucky, but are planning to expand into 8 other states with poor regions of the country.

What's wrong with that picture.

Actually, not much, investment is investment. You have the ability to prevent subversion, so all you really need to do is make sure there is reciprocal investment

Would you let mobsters, criminals and dictators invest in your businesses? Of course you wouldn't. You know how that ends once you let them get a foot in the door. with a 40% ownership stake. They have already threatened to nix the deal if any kind of review is done of the particulars. That's not a good sign that everything is above board. I mean common sense here. A deal that the dufus and Moscow Mitch put together without purview of the congress with an adversary? I ask again what's wrong with that picture?

So NO investments are not just investments.

Kind of like HC allowing the sale of uranium assets in the U.S. to Russia???

Kind of like HC allowing the sale of uranium assets in the U.S. to Russia???

The capitalists are complaining about capitalism. America for the americans, I'm all for it

Kind of like HC allowing the sale of uranium assets in the U.S. to Russia???

Unlike this deal, the uranium deal went through the proper process. Look it up.

Unlike this deal, the uranium deal went through the proper process. Look it up.

What was improper about it? CNN seemed to describe it as being done according to law.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/15/business/rusal-russia-kentucky-aluminum-mill/index.html

More to the story

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-a-mcconnell-backed-effort-to-lift-russian-sanctions-boosted-a-kentucky-project/2019/08/13/72b26e00-b97c-11e9-b3b4-2bb69e8c4e39_story.html



With strong Republican support, the House on Jan. 14 overwhelmingly rejected the administration plan to lift sanctions, 362 to 53. But the effort failed in the Senate, thanks in part to McConnell and strong lobbying efforts.

So like I said, it was done legally. You might disagree with it, but it was not illegal. Besides that, the Russkies are now minority owners of a large aluminum mill in KY employing a lot of Americans. So far I have not seen the down side.

If you say so. We'll see.

If you say so.

It's not what I say so. It's the reality of the deal. There was nothing illegal done, at least not according to the news stories.

Sometimes you don't know if it's COMPLETELY legal until you look deeper. I know arms were twisted, and the rich guys who put the deal together will never admit to something untoward, but we'll see what happens when a mob boss gets his foot in the door of our business. Or how the wheels were greased to get the deal done by lifting sanctions. I've been following this story for a while and no I don't trust any of the players.

"Trust but VERIFY"/Ronald Reagan about the Russians.

It does pay to be cautious.

Moscow Mitch has his hands dirty with this deal. Drop sanctions in return for 200 mill investment in his home state. Bone-spur Donald and Moscow Mitch are two of a pair.

Don't forget the campaign contributions from rich business guys who are going to reap a fortune. Hmm! Both are up for re election.

Back to the OP. Trump has now moved to pressure US companies to find alternatives to doing business with China, so what are the alternatives? Vietnam, Pakistan, India, but China is moving into Africa so will they be worried? There is a far larger market for their cheap goods in Africa and they are far more advanced in developing such markets. So Trump won't hasten the demise of Chinese industry he may actually advance it and these are markets the US has little possibility of capturing

In another OP I said Trump doesn't have the authority .That was not correct . The
International Emergency Economic Powers Act of 1977( IEEPA) gives him broad powers over the economy. It is a decision that could lead to disaster .
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-trade-options-explainer/explainer-what-tools-could-trump-use-to-get-u-s-firms-to-quit-china-idUSKCN1VE00X?fbclid=IwAR3TYWXm441rEPhKqJl2vUYlCfx EPzWhc6qYV0wlMxm7-iDyEPA0Tdb2V9k

a Trump led recession, it makes me depressed

He has already blamed everybody else just in case it arrives before he can be re elected.

yes it will be self inflicted with his trade wars and his silly obsession to bring the dollar value down . Yes and yesterday he basically called Fed Chair Jerome Powell a bigger enemy than China .The thing is that if Trump persists in forcing a recession then he will get his wish because the Fed will have no choice but to weaken the dollar .

yesterday he basically called Fed Chair Jerome Powell a bigger enemy than China


Trump daily abuses his pick for Fed Chairman for not lowering interest rates.

Trump's company is about half a billion dollars in debt. Lowering interest rates would save him millions in repayments. Another use of using his presidency for his own gain. He cares not a whit for his country.

What if China puts a tariff on some of the dufus family products, like ties and lingerie?

that would be a silly thing since a good % of Trump merchandize is made in China. Let's be honest . Trump merchandize is made to fill the racks at Trump Hotels . It is gravy and not a crucial part of the Trump business.

So when is he going to find an alternative other than China like he told the other business guys to do? I thought you were so big on calling out hypocrisy?

So when is he going to find an alternative other than China like he told the other business guys to do? I thought you were so big on calling out hypocrisy?

Trump doesn't need to find an alternative, business has been doing this for a long time without his help, and his business can switch any time it likes. The Hypocrisy of Trump is he knows he is hurting his own but his ego won't allow him to quit. One can only hope the american people make a sensible decision at the ballot box, but much damage will be done before then

One can only hope the american people make a sensible decision at the ballot box, which loon running do you think would be better ?

Whomever emerges as the dem nominee would be who I voted for. Don't know who Clete favors. The main goal is get rid of the dufus, and Moscow Mitch.

The trade dispute, though, is now about much more than economics—it’s testing whether a democratically elected government can prevail in the face of the authoritarian government of the world’s most populous country. And everyone who values democracy or human rights should hope that, one way or another, the United States ultimately prevails in that struggle...……….


If the U.S. is ultimately perceived to have lost the trade conflict, the leaders of democracies around the world will take notice. They will learn that confronting Beijing risks provoking a campaign of democratic destabilization—one that was successful elsewhere. They will need to weigh that risk against the potential rewards. China could point to the U.S. trade conflict to remind democracy’s leaders of this peril. And if any such leaders defiantly forged ahead, Beijing could draw on a playbook sharpened from its U.S. experience.
China’s victory, then, would bring about a world in which democracies are enfeebled and the largest autocracy is emboldened.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/08/china-vs-democracy/596248

which loon running do you think would be better ?

Too soon to know, but one loon is not as good as another

If there is a Chinese victory we can only blame the dufus and expose another lie about his negotiating skills which so far has been short sighted and incompetent as well as costly. The silence of repubs is deafening, in a sycophantic way, and we all see that as the antics of the last 3 years is a testament America doesn't always get it right, and be it in 2020, or 2024 there will be a helluva mess to clean up. Like you blame libs for Obama, why can't we blame conservatives for the Dufus?

I'll go further and just add that the conservative coalition is the bigger threat to democracies everywhere rather than any dictator on Earth in modern times. They have destroyed the common sense CONSENSUS to deal with the real issues of our times. It's the zombie apocalypse I tell YA!

the conservative coalition is the bigger threat to democracies everywhere rather than any dictator
nice more rhetoric to fuel the coming civil war .



They have destroyed the common sense CONSENSUS to deal with the real issues of our times.
amazing how the common sense consensus always moves the needle closer to the way progressives see the world .



If there is a Chinese victory we can only blame the dufus
There were decades when the Chinese were fighting this war and our leaders rolled over an played dead . That includes 20 years of Bushes and Bubba and the emperor .

If there is a Chinese victory we can only blame the dufus


There were decades when the Chinese were fighting this war and our leaders rolled over an played dead . That includes 20 years of Bushes and Bubba and the emperor .

Allowing business to conduct business, and how many businesses refused to do what the Chinese wanted? NONE, so if they were so egregious why did they do business with them? If they dumped so much cheap stuff, why did American companies even go along with it? If you think trade wars and arms races and military deployments gets you a deal, then that remains to be seen, but I doubt it, but it will be a slugfest. Not saying the Chinese and other nations haven't dealt in their own interests, surely they have and as underhanded as we have surely been.

Capitalist Creed-Destroy the competition. Now tell me it doesn't.


They have destroyed the common sense CONSENSUS to deal with the real issues of our times.


amazing how the common sense consensus always moves the needle closer to the way progressives see the world .

Funny you say that after conservatives shellacked the dems badly in 2010 and 2112 and not just in congress but the state ;egislations and governors so stop crying about progessives getting their way.


the conservative coalition is the bigger threat to democracies everywhere rather than any dictator

nice more rhetoric to fuel the coming civil war .

What makes you think the Civil war ever ended in 1865? The metal chains came off, but I'll be darned if the economic and social chains weren't tightened even more.

What civil war were YOU referring too?

If there is a Chinese victory we can only blame the dufus and expose another lie about his negotiating skills which so far has been short sighted and incompetent as well as costly.

Trump has no negotiating skills, it is his way or the highway. Macrom blindsided him overnight by inviting a representative of Iran to the G7 in what could only be described as an intervention. If Trump had skills he would have taken the opportunity to deescalate the relationship.It is time the world moved on from Trump's grandstanding agendas, there are important things to do

now Trump is doing more harm, ruining the Queen's lawn

Forget the queen, he is trying to ruin our own USA lawns with Putin coming to his Miama property for the next G7 meeting next year during our election season. No doubt he will raise the rates as taxpayers foot the bill that he will pocket, because as he said in his presser "he loses billions being president"! What a conniving liar. Now he makes real estate ads for his property from France...for free no less!

Forget the queen, he is trying to ruin our own USA lawns with Putin coming to his Miama property for the next G7 meeting next year during our election season. No doubt he will raise the rates as taxpayers foot the bill that he will pocket, because as he said in his presser "he loses billions being president"! What a conniving liar. Now he makes real estate ads for his property from France...for free no less!

You don't get it Tal, Trump is disrespectful, as the richest woman in the world, The queen could probably buy and sell him, if he doesn't respect the office he should respect the money, bet he wouldn't do it to his Billionaire mates or Putin

I get it Clete, but am not as surprised and shocked as you seem to be that the dufus disrespects women PERIOD. He has a history of it, now he is the top dog by choice and is still doing what he has always done and screw anyone who doesn't like it.

I get it Clete, but am not as surprised and shocked as you seem to be that the dufus disrespects women PERIOD. He has a history of it, now he is the top dog by choice and is still doing what he has always done and screw anyone who doesn't like it.

Tal, Trump respects noone but himself and I sometimes wonder if he doesn't exhibit total lack of self-respect. He desperately needs the acclaim of others, he would the most needy person on the planet. He doesn't understand that by respecting others he will get what he needs and someone may actually agree with him. I'm still waiting to see the big beautiful wall, he seems to have dropped all reference to it, as he has with obamacare, DACA, infrastructure, Kim and all he is focused on are tariffs, a very outmoded economic measure

He should be aware Tal that not much surprises and shocks me. I find a great deal regretable in this world

As do I Clete, but I'm a glass half full kind of guy, and guys like our dufus don't do well when he gets out of his lane and screws others. Matter of time, as his transgressions build and the people he has screwed return the favor.

As do I Clete, but I'm a glass half full kind of guy, and guys like our dufus don't do well when he gets out of his lane and screws others. Matter of time, as his transgressions build and the people he has screwed return the favor.

You are optimistic Tal but it seems Trump manages to screw others before they screw him so only the tide of public opinion can overcome him. It is sad we must wait another year to see if the tide rises high enough

I've seen a lot of things happen in a year Clete, that can make or break even presidents. Then there is always that political pendulum that after swinging right will swing left again eventually, but we have to suffer through the dufus era regardless. I still have my Netflix and popcorn, and batteries for the remote, and all in abubdance. I have survived many presidents but this is one of the worst. If it gets worse, there is still Jack Daniels who got me through the eighties and nineties. Can't tell if the BLUR was better than the popcorn sometimes, but at least popcorn has protein.

Somebody will have to clean up the mess this dufus has made, the worst I've ever seen by far. Maybe it's time to seriously consider that cottage in the outback. We'll see.

I've seen a lot of things happen in a year Clete, that can make or break even presidents. Then there is always that political pendulum that after swinging right will swing left again eventually, but we have to suffer through the dufus era regardless. I still have my Netflix and popcorn, and batteries for the remote, and all in abubdance. I have survived many presidents but this is one of the worst. If it gets worse, there is still Jack Daniels who got me through the eighties and nineties. Can't tell if the BLUR was better than the popcorn sometimes, but at least popcorn has protein.

Somebody will have to clean up the mess this dufus has made, the worst I've ever seen by far. Maybe it's time to seriously consider that cottage in the outback. We'll see.

Wouldn't do that mate, no rain, things are bad in the outback

A condo in the heart of Sidney? You have condos don't you?

A condo in the heart of Sidney? You have condos don't you?

Two things, we don't call them condo's and it is spelled Sydney. So let me see you have two million to waste on an ocean view, I can think of better places where it might even rain. Besides there are some real problems with shonky builders in Sydney

Why isn't anyone thinking or talking about all of this in terms of PROTECTING THE AMERICAN WORKER? The left is always shouting about "worker rights" and labor unions but when it comes right down to protecting American jobs/American workers, the left is awol! PROTECT U.S. JOBS AT ALL COSTS! If we don't produce anything, there will not be anything to sell....and that, really, will be the end of everything. I don't think I am oversimplifying it even one little bit!

Why isn't anyone thinking or talking about all of this in terms of PROTECTING THE AMERICAN WORKER? The left is always shouting about "worker rights" and labor unions but when it comes right down to protecting American jobs/American workers, the left is awol! PROTECT U.S. JOBS AT ALL COSTS! If we don't produce anything, there will not be anything to sell....and that, really, will be the end of everything. I don't think I am oversimplifying it even one little bit!

Do you really think the american worker needs protecting? you have had it good for a long time, but the days of keeping low wage jobs in the country, any developed country, is really flogging a dead horse. Automation has arrived, dem robos can do it faster an more accurate. There are lots of things you can do internally, service jobs, so look to being a smart nation

Why isn't anyone thinking or talking about all of this in terms of PROTECTING THE AMERICAN WORKER? The left is always shouting about "worker rights" and labor unions but when it comes right down to protecting American jobs/American workers, the left is awol! PROTECT U.S. JOBS AT ALL COSTS! If we don't produce anything, there will not be anything to sell....and that, really, will be the end of everything. I don't think I am oversimplifying it even one little bit!

Let's see, repubs have run congress since 2011, and nixed Obama's agenda, and they had the WH in 2016. yet the dems have been awol on workers rights? Go tell that to Big Biz, and repubs and those robots like Clete says. Or vote for the dems!

How come, out of every contest, it seems, the American worker gets a good beating?....Whomever is in office, doesn't matter which side, they act like the American worker is the enemy! Am I being unrealistic? I don't think so!

How come, out of every contest, it seems, the American worker gets a good beating?....Whomever is in office, doesn't matter which side, they act like the American worker is the enemy! Am I being unrealistic? I don't think so!

I don't think you get it, things are tough all over for those low paid jobs, this is why they are being done in Asia and people in Asia make good product. It is no use griping, you have to find something else to do. I know my country has had to reconstruct many industries over the last forty years and most of them have gone. This is what happens when you have free trade, it has to be free both ways

Since when did the government control the business cycle? Was it government who did away with unions, and resist getting them? Is it government who sets the wage scale, or make schedules that only allow enough hours so they don't have to pay benefits, because you are just a part time worker? Is it government that decides to close a plant or facility and move overseas? Is it government that buys the technology that replaces workers or decides to layoff during the slow season? Didn't Bush I tell you that it was a new world order coming. We have been transitioning from a industrial base to a service base for decades now, and juicing the economy with rich guy deficit funded tax cuts that exceeded their wildest dreams and making them permanent while giving poorer people who can't even afford to pay a payroll tax a temporary cut is rather insulting.

If states hadn't passed their own minimum wage increases, you wouldn't get a darn thing. Do the math, your paycheck got bigger but tax return got smaller but more money was returned to the treasury from those payroll deductions. Hmm. I won't even start my favorite rant about loopholes and rich guy deductions they have enjoyed for years, and still do or the big multinationals that paid no taxes even before their tax cuts, so yeah seems like big biz and government are in bed together and workers do get screwed.

That does make you half right though doesn't it?

Talaniman: Questions that form a pattern: I'm going way back for this one but, you know, the Federal Income Tax was only supposed to be a "temporary tax": What in the hell happened with that? Why is it institutionalized? Why do states without income taxes thrive? Why does New England shrivel and dry up and businesses leave while the South grows and flourishes?

Now, point of it all is that Trump didn't start any of this Merry Go Round Of Pain and he probably will not finish or stop any of it.....However, when we claim Trump is the root of all evil, its just not realistic. Trump doesn't follow rules, he just doesn't, and he probably won't in the future....he makes his own rules in many cases. All these things that are said about him, I know a lot of them are true but the guy is a winner, he has a horseshoe up his . I don't necessarily like him but, good God, I can think of plenty of people who have attempted to become president that would have made Trump look like a statesman, a scholar, and, perhaps, a Saint. He, possibly, isn't the "best" but he certainly isn't the worse.

Trump is a lot of things to a lot of people, and those opinions range from him being a Son Of A From Hell to The Best President Ever.....what he is, really, is something between the extremes. He isn't my favorite but, you know what, I am really proud he isn't a Macron! MACRON: THE REAL DUFUS! Now, Matteo Salvini, there is a man with balls! Men like him will save Europe from wimps like Macron and bullies like the Germans!

So you think threatening to deport children and families while they are being treated in the hospital and giving them 30 days to comply is a great way to handling migrants?

So you think threatening to deport children and families while they are being treated in the hospital and giving them 30 days to comply is a great way to handling migrants?

In all honesty people should be treated well whether they are refugees or not

However, when we claim Trump is the root of all evil, its just not realistic...he makes his own rules in many cases. All these things that are said about him, I know a lot of them are true but the guy is a winner, he has a horseshoe up his .... I can think of plenty of people who have attempted to become president that would have made Trump look like a statesman, a scholar, and, perhaps, a Saint. He, possibly, isn't the "best" but he certainly isn't the worse.

Trump is a lot of things to a lot of people, and those opinions range from him being a Son Of A From Hell to The Best President Ever.....what he is, really, is something between the extremes


Trump is by far the nearest to evil of any US president. As a malignant narcissist, he lacks all empathy and shows no concern for the least of these - the children locked up in cages. Now, as noted above, he is demanding children with life-threatening illnesses be deported within 33 days. The only available treatment is in the US. The notification was made by letter with NO APPEAL, and arrived halfway through the 33-day period. In effect, Trump is sentencing these children to death.

You say you can think of "plenty of people" running for president who would have made Trump look like a statesman, a scholar, and a saint. This is one of your most preposterous comments. Please name one single human being, dead or alive, wishing to be president who made Trump look like you say. Just one! Are you observing the same Trump the rest of the world is seeing?

NO ONE, NOWHERE, NO HOW EVER CALLED TRUMP THE BEST PRESIDENT EVER. Sorry, one did - Trump himself.

"The guy is a winner", you say - that's runner-up for most preposterous statement ever. I assume you're referring to his business acumen. Let's review that. He failed in every single business he started with the single exception of his TV show. Trump vodka, Trump Airline, Trump University ( an absolute fraud), Trump Steaks - and Gambling casinos that he declared bankruptcy for - a business that at the time was booming, but Trump managed to run into the ground. He publicly stated that bankruptcy was a way for him to make money - i.e., his investors were left losing the money.

Trump's money was inherited from his father. The father's real estate kept Trump going. Trump was such a bad businessman, he could not get a single US bank to lend him a dime. Finally, Deutsche Bank floated him half a billion or so. Do you know that bank? That's the one fined for laundering money and is in bed with the Russian oligarchs. One pundit claimed that Putin's Russians co-signed the loan (still not verified - but sounds true).

You don't seem to understand what racism is. How about declining to rent to African-Americans, being fined by the Feds, then doing it again? African-American applications were marked with a large C for Colored. Is that racist enough for you? Many nefarious forms of racism are a bit too subtle for you, based on what you wrote. It is not necessary to use the N word to be racist.

Then there's the payments to porn stars which he denied until the check signed by him was produced. His attempts to emasculate NATO. (I wonder why he's doing that? Hmm.) And, finally for now, the bizarre tariffs that are killing American farmers. Trump has proven that he has no clue how tariffs operate.

This was today's very well-written political column in the Chicago Sun-Times --

https://chicago.suntimes.com/columnists/2019/8/29/20838688/trump-personality-disorder-malignant-narcissist-presidental-mental-illness-gene-lyons

Psychiatrists don’t call personality disorders like Trump’s mental illnesses, because there are no known treatments. Only diagnoses.
and evidently they can diagnose from afar without ever having a sit down session with the subject of their "diagnosis" .Not one of the "
psychiatrists and mental health professionals" who wrote
“A Duty to Warn,” has ever had a session with Trump. Maybe they haven't heard of the Goldwater rule of their profession.
Section 7.3 in the Principles of Medical Ethics with Annotations Especially Applicable to Psychiatry :

On occasion psychiatrists are asked for an opinion about an individual who is in the light of public attention or who has disclosed information about himself/herself through public media. In such circumstances, a psychiatrist may share with the public his or her expertise about psychiatric issues in general. However, it is unethical for a psychiatrist to offer a professional opinion unless he or she has conducted an examination and has been granted proper authorization for such a statement.


file:///C:/Users/Tom/AppData/Local/Packages/Microsoft.MicrosoftEdge_8wekyb3d8bbwe/TempState/Downloads/principles-medical-ethics%20(1).pdf

From the link I posted:

Here’s something psychotherapist Elizabeth Mika wrote in 2017 during Trump’s first week in office:

"What we know about malignant narcissists is that they psychologically decompensate once they achieve the ultimate position of power. They worsen in every possible way: become more grandiose and paranoid, more aggressive and demanding, and progressively less in touch with reality … We can expect his narcissistic rage to intensify in proportion to his increasing grandiosity and paranoia.

“His handlers will have to resort to increasingly more ‘creative’ ways to placate and subdue him — and it will work, for a while, until it doesn’t.“
There’ll be blood, symbolic, if not literal, as he’ll fire and destroy his previously ‘trusted’ associates, maybe even in rapid succession and without any rhyme or reason.

“His demands for adulation will also become more intense and bizarre, and we’ll be witnessing idiotic and quite possibly dangerous displays of his ‘superiority’ … It’s not only that he will never get better, but it is certain that he will get worse.”

(Sound like anyone we know, tomder?)

is that her profession diagnosis of Trump based on having a session with him and he agreeing to her releasing her diagnosis ? Gene Lyons called it a diagnosis . By her own profession's standards what she wrote is unethical .

is that her profession diagnosis of Trump based on having a session with him and he agreeing to her releasing her diagnosis ? Gene Lyons called it a diagnosis . By her own profession's standards what she wrote is unethical .
It isn't a diagnosis. It's a prediction. And she hit the nail on the head!

And, like Gene mentioned, many psychologists and psychiatrists and mental health professionals are mandated reporters. It isn't required that they've met with the individual.

Trump has been so publicly revealing in his tweets, statements, and driveway pressers that the Goldwater Rule isn't necessary to diagnose him. In any case, the organization that formulated the Rule does not apply to all psychiatrists and is not legally binding.

Here's more from WG's link:

What we know about malignant narcissists is that they psychologically decompensate once they achieve the ultimate position of power. They worsen in every possible way: become more grandiose and paranoid, more aggressive and demanding, and progressively less in touch with reality … We can expect his narcissistic rage to intensify in proportion to his increasing grandiosity and paranoia. “His handlers will have to resort to increasingly more ‘creative’ ways to placate and subdue him — and it will work, for a while, until it doesn’t.“

There’ll be blood, symbolic, if not literal, as he’ll fire and destroy his previously ‘trusted’ associates, maybe even in rapid succession and without any rhyme or reason.

“His demands for adulation will also become more intense and bizarre, and we’ll be witnessing idiotic and quite possibly dangerous displays of his ‘superiority’ … It’s not only that he will never get better, but it is certain that he will get worse.”

Trump’s bizarre antics at the G7 meetings in France were like a fire alarm in the night.

“Our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China …”

“Hereby ordered,” no less. Hear that, Apple and General Motors?

Psychiatrists don’t call personality disorders like Trump’s mental illnesses, because there are no known causes or treatments. Only diagnoses. People like him are one of nature’s nasty little tricks, like smallpox and ticks.
And when they get into power, chaos follows. Every single time.

Problem is.... America’s “Vichy Republicans” hold veto power and are paralyzed for fear of their own credulous voters.
This story may not end well.


A perfect description of Trump's behavior.

("Vichy Republicans" - I love it!!)

Excuse the duplication. Had a rough time with the c/p. Anyway, two heads are better than one, I heard.

Look, it is all quite simple, to me: The left has a narrative about anything and anyone who doesn't walk their walk and talk their talk. That narrative was written before Trump ever won the Republican Primary....in other word, the narrative was written and a blank was installed for the name to be inserted later. The left insists on using the same old, tired, and worn out slanders they have used since the 60's: Call your Republican opponent racist, call them, fascist, call them xenophobic, call them cruel, call them anti-poor, call them pro-big business, etc.....this is their playbook and it has had successes over the years. And, there have been some amendments to the playbook, like the weird and fake Russia garbage, but, by and large, it has been consistent. Adding the "psychiatrically questionable" part is something new and it is not going to help them gain any traction. I'm not a Trump sycophant, and there are many areas I am out of tune with him on, but he is going to win reelection again and he should. Why should he win reelection? He should win reelection because his allegiance to the U.S. is unquestionable and his priorities are clearly purposed to the pass-fail test of "IS THIS GOOD FOR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?" He recognizes that he and the people inhibiting the U.S. are not "Citizens Of The World" but are Citizens Of The United States Of America. I don't know about the rest of you but I grew tired of wondering whether or not my POTUS really loved the U.S. or not....with Trump, there is no question!

Wikipedia even has an entry for "Vichy Republicans":

Vichy Republican was a term first used in 2009 to designate Republicans who sold out on their own party by collaborating with the Democrats against true conservative values and goals[1] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vichy_Republican#cite_note-1). This term has also since emerged on social media in 2016 in regards to the United States Presidential campaign of (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_presidential_campaign,_2016) Donald Trump (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump) but with an opposing definition. It refers to members of the Republican Party (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_(United_States)) who have chosen to support Donald Trump's candidacy due to political expediency rather than genuine agreement with his beliefs or campaign.[2] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vichy_Republican#cite_note-2) The term originates from Vichy France (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vichy_France), which was the wartime location of the French government which collaborated with the Axis Powers (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_powers) during the Occupation of France (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_military_administration_in_occupied_France_ during_World_War_II) during World War II (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II) opposed by the Free France (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_France) led by Charles de Gaulle (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_de_Gaulle).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vichy_Republican

Vacuum7, you commented, "he is going to win reelection again and he should." Haven't you been watching him and listening to him? He doesn't WANT to win reelection!

WG (Wondergirl): I think Trump does want to win again.....I think it is something of an internal calling within him to serve the nation.

All jokes aside, all partisan feelings aside, Trump has been talking about his concerns for the U.S. for a very long time....I think as far back as the late 70's....that is a lot longer than anyone in our current government or those in the field that aspire to become part of our current government....no one can take that away from him. You must also know that many on the left felt there was nothing wrong with Trump for many, many years: Look how many times Oprah has had him on her show.....it has only been different since he announced his candidacy for POTUS.

Speaking to you, WG, as a woman: I know he has had proclivities when it came to women, things about that part of Trump's life that aren't something to be proud of but I can assure you that every man on the planet has some element of that about them and most are able to "keep the beast in chains" and behave...but some aren't able to do it....having faith in God helps but it is up to each individual man to behave and be a man and not reveal the animal that we all can be under the right circumstances....most of how we behave comes from "how" we were raised with respect to how a man should cherish and respect women....I was raised by a Mother and Father who would have beaten the hide off of me if I acted up with women the way I see me treat them today! Its and expectation that you are expected to live up to and most of us do.

Is there a reason why Bill Clinton gets a pass for his numerous "Bimbo Eruptions" (at least one while he WAS POTUS) but Trump gets no such passes? "What Is Good For The Goose Is Good For The Gander!" is the way we should treat anything in life: We must be evenhanded.

Social services workers are required to report when, in their official or professional role, they are presented with a reasonable cause to suspect child abuse or maltreatment where any person is before the
mandated reporter
and the
mandated reporter
is acting in his or her official or professional capacity.

https://ocfs.ny.gov/main/publications/Pub1159.pdf

Again ;they are NOT acting in their professional capacity if they are "reporting " from afar . What they are doing is malpractice quackery . The Goldwater rule was written specifically for this type of circumstance ….where they can smear a political figure based on some pseudo professional observation.

from V7 to WG (Wondergirl): I think Trump does want to win again.....I think it is something of an internal calling within him to serve the nation.
Trump is multiple times a day knocking himself out to let us all know he is so weary of this job and so much wants it to be over with. He wants to drive his own car again and sleep late and play endless golf games and not have to hold Melania's hand when they're together in public. His putting-tariffs-on-China move was the most outrageous, most obvious move to tell us he wants out. Or is he, the Art-of-the-Deal guy, really that clueless as to what the tariffs will do to us (starting tomorrow on many retail products made in China)?

Tomder ----- The American Psychoanalytic Association is hardly malpractice therapy.

Rather than dwell on a rule, why not carefully read what has been written about Trump and decide on its own merits.

https://ocfs.ny.gov/main/publications/Pub1159.pdf

Again ;they are NOT acting in their professional capacity if they are "reporting " from afar . What they are doing is malpractice quackery . The Goldwater rule was written specifically for this type of circumstance ….where they can smear a political figure based on some pseudo professional observation.
You're incorrect, tomder. Observation is sufficient. Tune in to Dr. Phil weekday afternoons for further enlightenment on mandated reporting. And the professional observation is not "pseudo."

Trump does want to win again.....I think it is something of an internal calling within him to serve the nation.

Trump wants more, his only calling is to MORE.


Trump has been talking about his concerns for the U.S. for a very long time....I think as far back as the late 70's....that is a lot longer than anyone in our current government or those in the field that aspire to become part of our current government....no one can take that away from him.

Are you serious? How about replying to the ACTUAL things Trump has done over the years?


Look how many times Oprah has had him on her show.....it has only been different since he announced his candidacy for POTUS.

Are you seriously suggesting appearances on Oprah indicate anything about Trump except his need to be in the spotlight? It is hard to know how to answer such balderdash. Every time I read your posts, I wonder how you could be so completely ignorant of what has been happening in the USA? Oprah is your example? Oprah? She would have Jack the Ripper on if it helped the ratings.


Speaking to you, WG, as a woman: I know he has had proclivities when it came to women, things about that part of Trump's life that aren't something to be proud of but I can assure you that every man on the planet has some element of that about them and most are able to "keep the beast in chains" and behave...but some aren't able to do it....having faith in God helps but it is up to each individual man to behave and be a man and not reveal the animal that we all can be under the right circumstances....most of how we behave comes from "how" we were raised with respect to how a man should cherish and respect women....I was raised by a Mother and Father who would have beaten the hide off of me if I acted up with women the way I see me treat them today! Its and expectation that you are expected to live up to and most of us do.

An absolutely incredible paragraph!! Defend Trump because he can't "keep the beast in chains". There is a word for that. You're not helping Trump with such lunacy.


Is there a reason why Bill Clinton gets a pass for his numerous "Bimbo Eruptions" (at least one while he WAS POTUS) but Trump gets no such passes? "What Is Good For The Goose Is Good For The Gander!" is the way we should treat anything in life: We must be evenhanded.

Let me pose a question for you. Do we give Trump a pass because somebody else got a pass? Does one criminal get off the hook because not all criminals have been brought to justice?

Sorry, but your posts are bordering on the absurd, which is why they bring out such pointed replies.

from V7: Look how many times Oprah has had him on her show.....it has only been different since he announced his candidacy for POTUS.
Um, Oprah's final tv show was in May 2011.

The dufus administration is reconsidering deporting men, women, and children currently being treaed for life threatening illness. I guess the public pressure got to him, and his heartless sycophants!

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/09/trump-administration-medical-deferred-action-backtracks

Thank God for a free press. Without it, Trump would have gotten away with his latest madness.

At least Trump is keeping us safe:

"We had a photo. I released it, which I have the absolute right to do," Trump said.

He said the Iranians "were going to set off a big missile and it didn't work out too well. Had nothing to do with us.”

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-says-u-not-involved-182809599.html;_ylt=AwrEzdtOq25dg80Az3lXNyoA;_ylu= X3oDMTEyNWNiaW4yBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjI5ND RfMQRzZWMDc2M-

And he is keeping his VP Pence safe too!

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/pence-defends-decision-to-stay-at-trump-property-in-ireland/

Trump isn't heartless.....Do you really think that? He is our first POTUS of German heritage and his mannerism are somewhat different and tactics are different but, heartless? I don't think so.

The U.S. has a right to protect our borders.....Does anyone have issues with that right? You must have borders just as you must have laws.

Trump isn't heartless.....Do you really think that? He is our first POTUS of German heritage and his mannerism are somewhat different and tactics are different but, heartless? I don't think so.

The U.S. has a right to protect our borders.....Does anyone have issues with that right? You must have borders just as you must have laws.
The man has no empathy. It has nothing to do with his "heritage" or "mannerisms" and "tactics". (I'm 100% German heritage, so please don't push his heritage in our faces.) And I'm sure he doesn't know a word of German; he can barely speak English.

We can protect our borders by establishing more checkpoints, plus hiring and training EMPATHETIC people to staff them so that refugees and asylum seekers and jobhunters can be processed more quickly.

Trump isn't heartless.....Do you really think that? He is our first POTUS of German heritage and his mannerism are somewhat different and tactics are different but, heartless? I don't think so.

The U.S. has a right to protect our borders.....Does anyone have issues with that right? You must have borders just as you must have laws.

I think he is intentionally heartless, and cruel, in his efforts to show strength by driving a hard bargain. So much for talk softly but carry a big stick, but who will grovel to a bully? Yes I can see protecting the border but not at the expense of the healthy and safety of men, women, and children and especially not with cruel bully tactics as a deterrent policy.

Is that the best repubs can do? Patently unchristian from the God crowd!

If we could just hire more border guards that could sing "Kumbaya" around a campfire, our border problems would be over.

If we could just hire more border guards that could sing "Kumbaya" around a campfire, our border problems would be over.
No, that's not the solution. Why are you turning a major problem into a joke?

You forgot the sarcasm font again, but no biggie. Maybe more border guards, but more immigration courts and social and health care workers to help the humane processing for migrants would be better than just more guards, and tent cities. You could have built a small city with the manpower and wasted resources you have already paid private contractors for those tent cities and had plenty of loot left for a hospital and a school while the dufus was feeding you BS!

No sarcasm font needed or intended.

No, that's not the solution. Why are you turning a major problem into a joke?

Oh! Oh! You're shaming me.

Oh! Oh! You're shaming me.
No. Shaming you would be,"And you call yourself a Christian, turning a major humanitarian problem into a joke???"

Wondergirl: I am of German heritage, too....and I beg to differ with you on a certain point: My Father was no lovey, dovey kind of Dad and neither was my Grandfather and, to the outsider, anyone watching them would have considered them to be "cold" but they were anything but! I can see this same kind of characteristic in Trump....it is a Germanic trait, I am afraid, but it is real....Trump is a warm person deep inside.

The U.S. should not have to accept ANY ILLEGAL ALIENS! Why should the U.S. be forced to accept anyone it choses not to deem acceptable or want inside its borders. Why did not the damned SANCTUARY CITIES NOT WANT THE ILLEGAL ALIENS? I mean, if you are going talk the talk, why in the hell don't you walk the walk and take them into your SANTUARY CITIES?

If you cannot see that the illegal aliens USE CHILDREN AS A SHIELD TO GAIN ACCESS ACROSS THE BORDER, then you are blind or you just don't want to know the truth. The North Koreans did the same tactic during the Korean War...same type of using children to avoid being repulsed.

And, why do those coming at the U.S. from the Southern border get any more special treatment than those coming from overseas? My wife if from overseas and she had to wait a long damn time to get into the U.S. and a lot longer time to become a U.S. Citizen.....so why do the illegal aliens get any special treatment because they are hoofing it across the border: WE OWE THEM NOTHING! Anything we give them is because we so chose to do so, not because we are obligated to do so.

The POTUS' first job is to PROTECT THE PEOPLE OF THE U.S.: Do you think allowing unmitigated human invasion across the Southern border is protecting U.S. Citizens?

We have enough crime born from out own population, we don't need "extra" nor should we want extra.

You want to about Minimum Wage, then stop allowing illegal aliens into the country so that fat bastards can exploit them to the hilt, take advantage of them, rape them, and ride them like a rented mule to get even fatter off of! Its disgusting! And, I don't blame the illegals because I would do the same! I blame those that would just open the borders to a flood of illegals so that they can be taken advantage of by construction outfits, golf course owners, restaurant owners, and gangs! You think that is O.K., then YOU ARE THE ONE THAT IS CRUEL!

Oh, and BTW: When you drive down wages because you saturate the job market with cheap, illegal labor, then, guess what: It won't be long before YOU WILL FEEL IT, TOO: YOU AREN'T INSULATED and I don't care how much buffer you think there is between you and the janitor...it will get to you and your wallet, you are safe!

You cannot break into my damn house and then expect me to fix you dinner and provide you with a warm bed! It ain't happening!

Trump is a warm person deep inside.

How do you reconcile your belief that Trump is a "warm person deep inside" with the fact that he is attempting to deport children who have come to the USA to be treated for life-threatening rare diseases. The ongoing treatment has been successful saving their lives but not available in the children's home countries. Trump wants to deport them anyway within 33 days.

Your "warm person" is sending these children to their death.

No. Shaming you would be,"And you call yourself a Christian, turning a major humanitarian problem into a joke???"

The motto of liberals. "It's OK when we do it, but wrong when you do it."

I was actually trying to point out the non-serious nature of your proposed solution involving "empathetic" border guards. My solution is simple. Build the wall. Everything else has been tried and proven ineffective. But I doubt it will be done. We have become a weak nation with too little resolve to defend itself and its own citizens. Ask the family of Kate Steinle if you don't believe that. An innocent woman killed and no one is held responsible. Thank you, California.


he is attempting to deport children who have come to the USA to be treated for life-threatening rare diseases.

You failed to mention that they are receiving treatment on the American taxpayer's dime from Medicaid. I don't see how any nation 23 trillion in debt, with more debt accumulating daily, can believe it can afford to pay for med care for non-citizens.

"All had been granted “medical deferred action,” a special status that allows immigrants to remain in the country legally, receive Medicaid, and work while they receive treatment for dire health conditions."

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2019/08/26/immigrant-families-with-severely-ill-children-face-deportation-advocates-say/EMXZQURTzE0U25L6xQlYBN/story.html

I think the key thing you said was WORK while they get the treatments they need. So not like it's a totally free ride since anyone working pays taxes and contributes however small or large. The amazing thing about the brown people often overlooked is their wanting to WORK. Often for a beast at a very unfair wage and terrible back breaking conditions.

Did you also know that many were brought here as a part of clinical trails with no guarantee of success, but many more will be treated and saved and they have contributed to a greater good that can't just be ignored, and I just don't think its right to add too the trauma in such a cruel way as they get that lifesaving treatment which is not just for them, but for many others too.

The drug companies pay for that expense, and Medicaid pays for the standard poor people stuff. I don't think 23 trillion in debt is due to migrants getting treatments for rare disease as part of a larger research effort, and those Medicaid expenditures probably pales in comparison to lets say subsidies to farmers because of those trade wars, or the business that the dufus funnels to his own properties, some losing money bigtime.

https://www.drugwatch.com/featured/clinical-trials-and-hidden-data/

In case you wanted some data to help figure out why YOUR health care costs are rising. Keep in mind this is but ONE aspect of a multilayered process. Given the totality though, begrudging a few sick kids life saving treatments because they use Medicaid is like not feeding the guinea pig.

I think the key thing you said was WORK while they get the treatments they need. So not like it's a totally free ride since anyone working pays taxes and contributes however small or large. The amazing thing about the brown people often overlooked is their wanting to WORK. Often for a beast at a very unfair wage and terrible back breaking conditions.

I admire the Latino immigrants. They do work hard and value family relationships, but it's a bad idea that since it is a nice thing to do, then we must do it and forget about how to pay for it. That's why we are 23 tril in debt, the idea that spending proposals need not have a means of funding.

I would like to see a federal law that any congressman who proposes new spending without an iron-clad means of paying for it would be immediately sent back home and put out of the congress.

If people want to be charitable, they should do so with their own money and not force other Americans to pay for their charitable inclinations.

You cannot just look at debt in isolation, as it but only requires a degree of growth (Or expansion) to make it manageable with a better plan and managers to make it work. Repubs ain't it. Why should I pay for your cruelty and hate filled fears? You probably agree with this guy.

https://www.conservativereview.com/news/mcconnell-surrenders-important-budget-fight-trumps-presidency-begins/

Go ahead stick with Moscow Mitch and your favorite lying cheating dufus managing OUR money! So much for your values of a Christian nation meme.

You cannot just look at debt in isolation, as it but only requires a degree of growth (Or expansion) to make it manageable with a better plan and managers to make it work. Repubs ain't it. Why should I pay for your cruelty and hate filled fears? You probably agree with this guy.

23 tril of debt is 23 tril of debt. We are paying interest on that every year. Make it manageable? That's the kind of thinking that constantly drives up the debt every year. There are no tricks to make it less damaging. What we need to do is grow up and start paying our way every year, but I have no hope of seeing that happen until the wheels fall off the cart and we have no choice. Go look at Greece to see how much fun that is.

Repubs ain't it? Your hero, Mr. Obama, added as much debt in his eight years as every other president before him combined, so please don't try to work your politics with me. It's a huge problem with both parties since we, the voters, just yawn and let them keep it up, but a day is coming when we will regret that.

You failed to mention that they are receiving treatment on the American taxpayer's dime from Medicaid. I don't see how any nation 23 trillion in debt, with more debt accumulating daily, can believe it can afford to pay for med care for non-citizens.


Who the blazes cares if it's on the American taxpayer's dime! These terminally ill children were ASKED to come here so medical research could find a cure for their rare diseases infecting children all over the world. The research has been successful and these children are being kept alive in this country by the treatment they're receiving which is not available in their home country. And which now can be used to save many more lives.

You and Trump want to send them home to die! You care too much about those dimes the government is stealing out of your pocket so children may live.

Your hero, Mr. Obama, added as much debt in his eight years as every other president before him combined,


How ill-informed can you possibly be? You sing this tune over and over again without a single mention of what Obama inherited from the Bush administration. With the criminal collusion of Wall Street, the country (world) entered into the Great Recession which Obama brought the country out of. If it had been left to the Republicans their laissez-faire solutions would have created a Depression far worse than the 1930s.

Then there's that tax cut for the middle class that Trump trumpeted as saving $4,000 a year for all of us. He promised it would reduce the deficit. In reality, it has increased the deficit, probably by at least 2.3 TRILLION, a conservative estimate.

Why is it you never bring up those facts? Instead, like Trump, you just blame Obama wherever and whenever.

Who the blazes cares if it's on the American taxpayer's dime! These terminally ill children were ASKED to come here so medical research could find a cure for their rare diseases infecting children all over the world. The research has been successful and these children are being kept alive in this country by the treatment they're receiving which is not available in their home country. And which now can be used to save many more lives.

You and Trump want to send them home to die! You care too much about those dimes the government is stealing out of your pocket so children may live.

And thus we see why we are 23 tril in debt. If they were ASKED to come here for research, why is the taxpayer having to pay for it? Yeah, it's that same ole "Who cares about paying for it?" mentality.


How ill-informed can you possibly be? You sing this tune over and over again without a single mention of what Obama inherited from the Bush administration. With the criminal collusion of Wall Street, the country (world) entered into the Great Recession which Obama brought the country out of. If it had been left to the Republicans their laissez-faire solutions would have created a Depression far worse than the 1930s.

Then there's that tax cut for the middle class that Trump trumpeted as saving $4,000 a year for all of us. He promised it would reduce the deficit. In reality, it has increased the deficit, probably by at least 2.3 TRILLION, a conservative estimate.

I'm not sure what your objection is. Obama incurred as much debt as all other presidents before him combined. That is a true statement. Was it necessary? You say so, but many others disagree. One way or the other, it's that "Yawn, so what?" attitude that is killing us. Is Trump behaving foolishly? Absolutely, but you are so in love with the liberal orthodoxy of Mr. Obama that you can't bring yourself to say that his incredible deficits were irresponsible.

As irresponsible as the dufus lie about talking to China over the phone to prop up the stick markets? That's not just irresponsible but may be illegal. Obamas debts were agreed to by a repub congress since no president can legally control the purse strings even in an emergency. The congress can over ride if they so chose, so are they not to blame as well as the executive? Of course they are.

The debt though is a simple fix, declare bankruptcy and screw the rest of the world like the dufus has done many times before, so what's the big deal?

If the U.S. declare bankruptcy, China will be in big trouble, at least the ChiCom part of China! Remember: If I owe you a million $s, I have got a problem.....however, if I owe you a trillion $s, YOU HAVE ONE HELL OF A PROBLEM! The U.S. declaring bankruptcy would be the ultimate power play and would torpedo the entire world economy.

As irresponsible as the dufus lie about talking to China over the phone to prop up the stick markets? That's not just irresponsible but may be illegal. Obamas debts were agreed to by a repub congress since no president can legally control the purse strings even in an emergency. The congress can over ride if they so chose, so are they not to blame as well as the executive? Of course they are.

Aren't Trump's deficits agreed to by a democrat House? What's the difference?

If they were ASKED to come here for research, why is the taxpayer having to pay for it?


Non sequitur.





I'm not sure what your objection is.

It isn't hard to see. Obama INHERITED the financial situation. He did what was necessary to resolve the problem continuing in what Bush had started. This is plain to see. You just refuse to acknowledge it.

If they were ASKED to come here for research, why is the taxpayer having to pay for it?

Non sequitur.

Only for you.

Are you seriously suggesting the American government asked these families to come here to be, in effect, the subjects of medical trials? Really?


As to the budget deficits, your explanation might explain the first couple of years, but not the following six. His problem was simple. It is easy to spend, spend, spend when you don't have to worry about paying for it and when you know your loyal supporters would not dare to raise their voice for even a second in criticism. It is one thing to support a president, and quite a different thing to practically worship him.

Only for you.

Are you seriously suggesting the American government asked these families to come here to be, in effect, the subjects of medical trials? Really?

That's exactly how it works, and I gave you a link to that effect. The Government brought those sick kids here at the request of the research company doing the trials. As per the link, those costs are mostly borne by the research company with the NIH sharing the costs. A private/public endeavor generally.


As to the budget deficits, your explanation might explain the first couple of years, but not the following six. His problem was simple. It is easy to spend, spend, spend when you don't have to worry about paying for it and when you know your loyal supporters would not dare to raise their voice for even a second in criticism. It is one thing to support a president, and quite a different thing to practically worship him.

Boy you have facts and history all screwed up. Repubs took over after the 2010 election, and gained even more seats in 2012. So Obama had to deal with Boehner and Moscow Mitch for 6 years of his 8 year term, so tell me again how it was ALL the Obama worshippers running up deficits that you call irresponsible during a recession, where government is the primary investor and the dufus takes credit for the work done before him.

Any dufus can walk into a clean house and start living, but the guy before him did the cleaning, and obviously did a very good job compared to what he walked into himself. Repubs have a habit of doing stuff like that as we only have to look at what Bush inherited from Clinton, a balanced budget and strong economy, and he and the dems cut taxes for 10 years, and not to mention TWO theatres of conflicts OFF THE BOOKS in Iraq, and Afghanistan and left a MESS! Obama's first budgets put those trillion dollar wars on the books for all to see and deal with.

So what are you talking about?

Boy you have facts and history all screwed up. Repubs took over after the 2010 election, and gained even more seats in 2012. So Obama had to deal with Boehner and Moscow Mitch for 6 years of his 8 year term, so tell me again how it was ALL the Obama worshippers running up deficits that you call irresponsible during a recession, where government is the primary investor and the dufus takes credit for the work done before him.

Read more carefully. I have said all along that both parties engage in deficit spending, but if you want to attach the repubs to Obama's deficits, then you must also be willing to attach the dems to Trump's deficits. And as I have also said before, if you want to give Obama a pass his first two years, then fine, but how do you explain the six years following them? It all comes down to a simple fact. You love Obama and would never say a critical word about him. It's a love that borders on worship.


Any dufus can walk into a clean house and start living, but the guy before him did the cleaning, and obviously did a very good job compared to what he walked into himself. Repubs have a habit of doing stuff like that as we only have to look at what Bush inherited from Clinton, a balanced budget and strong economy, and he and the dems cut taxes for 10 years, and not to mention TWO theatres of conflicts OFF THE BOOKS in Iraq, and Afghanistan and left a MESS! Obama's first budgets put those trillion dollar wars on the books for all to see and deal with.

Amazing how you want to blame the repub Congress for Obama's failures, but then aren't willing to credit them for his supposed successes. It's all politics. Bush was failure? I agree completely. You see? That's how it works when you don't worship political figures.

Your link was just a generic article about drug trials. It said nothing specific about the situation with these Mexican children. The link I provided from the Boston Globe specifically states that Medicaid is picking up the med costs. If our government is bringing in foreign children to use a test subjects for med treatment trials, then that is beyond despicable.

I place no blame because I have seen this political dynamic all my life and as the rent goes up, so does the debt. Now you can be outraged all you want my friend and retreat to the comforts of your tribal beginnings and nitpick all kinds of what you think is an affront to your sensibilities but a staement of fact is not an attack, just accepting reality. By the way I have pointed out in my posts not just the bad stuff but the good stuff too about our past repub presidents. Seems it's you that cannot accept the good of Obama, flawed human though he be.

Maybe some day I will find good things about the dufus to appreciate, but so far NADA! You would deny the first black president lifted up the spirits of millions with HOPE? I was inspired by it even if you weren't.

By the way I have pointed out in my posts not just the bad stuff but the good stuff too about our past repub presidents. Seems it's you that cannot accept the good of Obama, flawed human though he be.

Exactly!! Thank you for illustrating your bias in favor of dem presidents. You can never bring yourself to say anything critical about them. Politics. Stinkin politics.


I place no blame because I have seen this political dynamic all my life and as the rent goes up, so does the debt.

Yawn. Another trillion dollars of debt? No big deal to Tal. That is why the debt continues to grow, the "what the heck" attitude of so many Americans. Time will tell, but when it does, it will be too late to avoid the pain of reality.


Now you can be outraged all you want my friend and retreat to the comforts of your tribal beginnings and nitpick all kinds of what you think is an affront to your sensibilities but a staement of fact is not an attack, just accepting reality.

"Retreat to the comforts of (my) tribal beginnings." What on earth are you talking about? How sad it is that when someone advocates for some fiscal responsibility, you can just blow it off as "nitpicking". You will learn, my friend. It's going to be a hard lesson, but you will learn someday.

Well JL what can I say? I'm a dem (Very independent though), but have much respect for those old pragmatic common sense repubs from back in the day that have dissapeared from the body politic and been replaced by cowards and sycophants. If you want to go back to those days I'm all for it, but if you think I'm going to hold my nose and get behind a lying, cheating, big mouth bully and his phantom yes boys, and racist terrorists, you have absolutely lost your mind.

Go ahead raid some more slum bosses blessed by the Chamber of Commerce, and deport the workers and let the slum bosses keep making their money and call it JUSTICE! You should be ashamed, because THAT'S pure politics. That includes your dufus who has done the same thing while YOU completely look the other way.

Management of the debt is right in front of your face, if you weren't so busy being part of the problem. Stop holding your nose and get some glasses why don't you. Then you could see and smell how the dufus is stinking up the whole country, and the world with feeding you FEAR, and HATE!

Well JL what can I say? I'm a dem (Very independent though)

It's not so much what you CAN say as much as what you will NOT say. You will never be critical of any dem and certainly not of Mr. Obama. Independent??? I don't see that at all. But as you have said, you are a dem, so I get that.

Is it as hot in Texas as it is here?

It has cooled off to 100* but about 80 at night. I get the chores and errands done well befor noon, but sometimes I get the straw hat out and soldier forth. It's livable when the humidity is low but sometimes TStorms roll through and it's cooler but humid and that's what makes the sweat roll.

I gotta say though it's been that way since I can remember, but the fascinating part has been even if it rains cats and dogs all day, an hour after the sun comes out there is no evidence that it rained at all. I shouldn't complain since it's a lot better than the harsh winters and high heating bills I'm use to around the Chicagoland area.

I don't miss shoveling snow at all and wearing shorts for 9 months of the year is something I can get with. How you guys making it?

We are OK. The humidity is a problem when we get into the high nineties. I've never lived in a really cold area so it holds some appeal to me.

Can't say I didn't enjoy it as a kid, but the bones creak enough from living and working in it. My kids ran like scalded dogs from the area once the could. Can't blame them. Even the wifes peeps abandon the great north and that lake effect snow. I'll take some 90's about now.

But now you can't build a snowman and I can! HA!

I don't know. That snow looks pretty good about now.

Are you seriously suggesting the American government asked these families to come here to be, in effect, the subjects of medical trials? Really?


They were invited as part of medical research to find treatment for rare diseases affecting hundreds of millions worldwide. The program has been successful (ongoing) with children being treated in this country because the advanced treatment is not available in their home country.

Trump wants to deport them knowing they will die in their home country.

The costs have been borne by private insurance, donors, volunteers and government. Only you would deprive these children of receiving government aid because you don't approve your tax dollars being spent for it. I estimate the actual tax cost to you is one-ten-thousandth of one cent.

You presume to speak for others. You sure as hell don't speak for me. I support my tax money being spent to keep these children alive.

The costs have been borne by private insurance, donors, volunteers and government. Only you would deprive these children of receiving government aid because you don't approve your tax dollars being spent for it. I estimate the actual tax cost to you is one-ten-thousandth of one cent.

You presume to speak for others. You sure as hell don't speak for me. I support my tax money being spent to keep these children alive.

I sure hope I don't speak for you or anyone else. Never have claimed to, so your imagination is at work on that point. I don't "presume" to speak for anyone but me on this board.

One cent per American would be about 3 million dollars. One ten thousandth of that would be only 300 dollars, so sorry, but I don't think you have the slightest idea of what you're talking about. The Boston Globe article said Medicaid is picking up the cost. Now if you feel that strongly about it, are you one of those donors or volunteers, or are you just in favor of forcing the American government to go out and borrow this money, thus going even further into debt in order to support non-citizens?

If someone feels strongly about a charitable cause, I suggest they support it out of their own resources, or even encourage others (like me) to do so, but I would not suggest they try to feel noble and superior by forcing others to support it.

And besides all of that, it would appear you might have your story wrong to begin with.

https://www.breitbart.com/immigration/2019/08/30/fact-check-no-donald-trump-did-not-decide-to-deport-kids-with-cancer/

One cent per American would be about 3 million dollars. One ten thousandth of that would be only 300 dollars,

Ok, so make it one ten-billionth - it was hyperbole, I thought you guys liked hyperbole.


are you just in favor of forcing the American government to go out and borrow this money, thus going even further into debt in order to support non-citizens?

Unbelievable! You just don't get it, do you? I bet you'd pay to put the Ten Commandments on the government buildings but God forbid you'd pay a penny to save the lives of non-citizen children.


but I would not suggest they try to feel noble and superior by forcing others to support it.

Are you projecting how you feel?


https://www.breitbart.com/immigration/2019/08/30/fact-check-no-donald-trump-did-not-decide-to-deport-kids-with-cancer/

Breitbart?? You gotta be kidding.

Unbelievable! You just don't get it, do you? I bet you'd pay to put the Ten Commandments on the government buildings but God forbid you'd pay a penny to save the lives of non-citizen children.

Actually I get it quite well. It seems to be the typical liberal attitude. "Hey! Look at me! I'm a great and noble guy because I am forcing others to pay for my charitable impulses, and with borrowed money no less!"

You didn't answer my question about your own personal involvement as a donor or volunteer, so I guess we can all assume that your contribution to this, other than words, is zero.

I get that you are advocating for the use of fed funding for a particular cause. I understand that, but you can just lose the smug attitude of superiority you love to carry around. I am all in favor of helping sick kids, but a government 23 trillion dollars in debt that cannot balance a budget should figure out how all of this is going to be paid for and stop pretending that the money will just fall off a tree like ripe apples. Do I consider you noble for supporting that which costs you nothing??? Absolutely not.

Would I contribute to put the Ten Commandments on the wall of my local schools? You better believe I would. I guess that's how you and I are different.

Time for you to stop the liberal this liberal that. You're sounding like a broken record.

You may assume what you want. It means nothing to me.

As usual, you get it wrong - again! I am not advocating the use of federal funding for a cause. I am advocating saving the lives of children by letting them stay in this country where they receive life-saving treatment unavailable to them if Trump gets his way and deports them. Wow - you sure have a one-track mind!

I see where your new charge is "noble" instead of "hatred". An odd pairing.

I'm curious. Would you make Christianity the official religion?

As usual, you get it wrong - again! I am not advocating the use of federal funding for a cause. I am advocating saving the lives of children by letting them stay in this country where they receive life-saving treatment unavailable to them if Trump gets his way and deports them. Wow - you sure have a one-track mind!

You can't have it both ways. Either this involves fed funding or it doesn't. And, of course, it does, so I did not have it wrong. And I will mention again that you are apparently contributing not a single red cent to the cause, so you are all in for that which costs you nothing other than that one ten-thousandth of one cent you mentioned earlier. I don't mean that to be ugly or hateful. I'm sure you have a genuine concern for those children, just like I have a genuine concern for having a government that has some idea of how to pay for what it obligates itself to do, or a genuine concern for charging the taxpayer for med care for people who are not citizens since I don't know how we can do that for some and not for the millions of others who need it.


I see where your new charge is "noble" instead of "hatred". An odd pairing.


Refresh my memory. Where have I accused you of hatred?



I'm curious. Would you make Christianity the official religion?

No. That would be unconstitutional. Putting the Ten Commandments on the walls of schools, as it is in the chamber of the Supreme Court and where it was for many decades, would not establish a national Christian religion since the Ten Commandments pertain to three major world religions and never mentions the name of Jesus. It would, however, begin to impress upon our children that there is a moral code in this world that everyone should recognize.

You can't have it both ways. Either this involves fed funding or it doesn't

The point is - saving children's lives is primary. Sad that you can't see that.


And I will mention again that you are apparently contributing not a single red cent to the cause,

You don't have the slightest idea what I contribute to anything. Just another of your ad hominems.


Refresh my memory. Where have I accused you of hatred?

Refresh your own memory. Whenever I criticized Trump, you rarely replied directly to the criticism, you just accused me of hatred of Trump.


No. That would be unconstitutional....{skip}....... the Ten Commandments pertain to three major world religions and never mentions the name of Jesus. It would, however, begin to impress upon our children that there is a moral code in this world that everyone should recognize.

You say Christianity as official religion would be unconstitutional, yet the Ten Commandments on school walls promotes three religions and is not unconstitutional. Is it three religions that makes it ok? What about a code with 4 religions? Just asking. I grant you some Commandments are moral in nature but what about the ones that aren't? Like remembering the Sabbath. Not worshiping "other" gods?

Would you object to other moral codes being posted on school walls? The moral sections of the Code of Hammurabi, for example? The moral codes of Buddhism?

You don't have the slightest idea what I contribute to anything. Just another of your ad hominems.

I asked you earlier if you had contributed. I took your non-response to be a "no", but feel free to correct that misunderstanding.


Refresh your own memory. Whenever I criticized Trump, you rarely replied directly to the criticism, you just accused me of hatred of Trump.


I don't recall saying that, but if I did it was improper.


You say Christianity as official religion would be unconstitutional, yet the Ten Commandments on school walls promotes three religions and is not unconstitutional. Is it three religions that makes it ok? What about a code with 4 religions? Just asking. I grant you some Commandments are moral in nature but what about the ones that aren't? Like remembering the Sabbath. Not worshiping "other" gods?

The Constitution disallows the feds establishing a religion. The recognition of a moral code associated with three religions would rather plainly not do that. As to the first three commandments, if you do away with those, you lose all moral authority to make the final seven authoritative. They become simply "good ideas" or "good suggestions", but with no way to make them indisputable.


Would you object to other moral codes being posted on school walls? The moral sections of the Code of Hammurabi, for example? The moral codes of Buddhism?

Yes. This country does not have a Buddhist heritage.

Yes. This country does not have a Buddhist heritage.

Doesn't have an Islam heritage, either.

If you wanted to impress a moral code on your children then why have a guy on TV everyday who lies cheats, steals, and spews hate based on race and anything else he can find, and is cruel to men, women, and children who cannot fight back or help themselves as they ask for mercy, and is fiscally irresponsible and secretive as all get out about his personal finances, while openly enriching himself and his friends?

You think kids are that dumb? You tell them to follow God and Jesus, while you follow a dufus? Come on man.

If you wanted to impress a moral code on your children then why have a guy on TV everyday who lies cheats, steals, and spews hate based on race and anything else he can find, and is cruel to men, women, and children who cannot fight back or help themselves as they ask for mercy, and is fiscally irresponsible and secretive as all get out about his personal finances, while openly enriching himself and his friends?

You think kids are that dumb? You tell them to follow God and Jesus, while you follow a dufus? Come on man.

As I have said many times, I voted for Trump simply because the alternative was unthinkable. He is disappointing in many ways, but if you don't want to have a person like that in office, then try nominating someone not along the lines of BC, HC, or Obama. Thankfully he does not actively support the continued slaughter of hundreds of thousands of unborn children a year. You plead for those children in hospitals, and rightly so, and yet have no concern whatsoever with children who are slaughtered in the womb by the MILLIONS, in many cases only days prior to birth.