Kamala Harris owns a gun but doesn’t want YOU to do so .

Bernie Sanders makes millions but doesn’t want YOU to do so

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez flies on planes but doesn’t want YOU to do so .


See the pattern?

Is there anythink new in this. See a politician you see a liar

I note there is no denials

Nothing to deny. I amuse myself by letting conservatives think that the loudest voices are the only voices in the dem camp. I still wouldn't dismiss our youngsters as loonies though. Our freshmen class is smart as whips and very talented. Plus you guys love to exaggerate especially your party leader. Now that is a REAL loony!

Shouldn't you worry about old guard Nancy looking for a going away trophy, like the Dufus's head?

She won't because she knows that if they go for impeachment they lose the House.

Maybe NOT, if enough visual gets before the no reading public. Kids in cages don't help especially if it continues and more kids die, and they show all kinds of supplies in stock somewhere except where it's needed. They just uncovered a second dark sight about CBP agents. What's up with those guys?

ummm most people in the country want border control . Thousands cross the border .People are crossing the border in record numbers to get their turn in our concentration camps .What is the country supposed to do ? If as you claim that you don't want open borders then people illegally crossing the border have to be detained. But the truth is that the nut jobs above not only do they want open borders;But they all want to entice more of them here with the promise of free medical care . Common Tal raise your hand with the rest of the Dem field .

btw this is what the Dems call drinking out of the toilet .Standard equipment in detention centers .Meanwhile
Rep. Rashida Tlaib defends voting against $4.6 billion emergency border bill today on ABC .Money targeted to address your concerns .




https://qb-res.cloudinary.com/e_trim:0/c_pad,f_auto,q_75,w_350,h_350/images/originals/220/220056

ummm most people in the country want border control . Thousands cross the border .People are crossing the border in record numbers to get their turn in our concentration camps .What is the country supposed to do ? If as you claim that you don't want open borders then people illegally crossing the border have to be detained. But the truth is that the nut jobs above not only do they want open borders;But they all want to entice more of them here with the promise of free medical care . Common Tal raise your hand with the rest of the Dem field .

Dems want a secure border, and a humane process for asylum seekers which is LEGAL. Why does the right ignore that? What's illegal is the dufus breaking the law and creating this humanitarian crisis.

https://supportkind.org/resources/flores-settlement-myth-v-fact/

So just send the proper resources to get this process going and get on with it without the cruel illegal drama the dufus and you righties are hollering about. The rest of your spin is irrelevant and as my friend JL says nothing but silly season politics.


btw this is what the Dems call drinking out of the toilet .Standard equipment in detention centers .Meanwhile
Rep. Rashida Tlaib defends voting against $4.6 billion emergency border bill today on ABC .Money targeted to address your concerns .




https://qb-res.cloudinary.com/e_trim:0/c_pad,f_auto,q_75,w_350,h_350/images/originals/220/220056

So who turned the water off to the faucet part, and why? The money was sent so why nitpick at your favorite targets? More politics? Of course it is and everybody should get free healthcare not just those that can afford it, or barely can afford it.

I think they are lying about drinking out of a toilet . AOC did not know how a garbage disposal worked . I imagine she saw the set up and said that the illegals were being forced to drink from a toilet.



Dems want a secure border,
not true . All their policies points to open borders including benefits for illegals and sanctuary cities and states . Beto and others have crossed the border to advise illegals how to sneak in.




asylum seekers
They are not asylum seekers for reasons I've already stated . Asylum seekers migrate due to persecution. These people have tough economic situations .That does not qualify as a reason to seek asylum. But the Dems and their enabling NGOs spread the lie to these people that once they get here they will qualify for all United States freebees . It is the message of the left that is horribly inhumane because they are spreading falsehoods to these people and they are uprooting and making a very dangerous journey because of the left's lies .

I still wouldn't dismiss our youngsters as loonies though. Our freshmen class is smart as whips and very talented.


You mean the supporters of the 90 trillion dollar loony bin idea known as the Green New Deal???


Kids in cages

You mean this picture from the Obama admin???

49197

I think they are lying about drinking out of a toilet . AOC did not know how a garbage disposal worked . I imagine she saw the set up and said that the illegals were being forced to drink from a toilet.

She wasn't the only one there nor the only account but the only one you pick on. What of the other accounts that verify the valves were shut off? Pretty selective.


not true . All their policies points to open borders including benefits for illegals and sanctuary cities and states . Beto and others have crossed the border to advise illegals how to sneak in.

Wrong again. You just say Open Borders because you don't want to deal with humane Process or that asylum seeking is LEGAL. The law gets in your way.


They are not asylum seekers for reasons I've already stated . Asylum seekers migrate due to persecution. These people have tough economic situations .That does not qualify as a reason to seek asylum. But the Dems and their enabling NGOs spread the lie to these people that once they get here they will qualify for all United States freebees . It is the message of the left that is horribly inhumane because they are spreading falsehoods to these people and they are uprooting and making a very dangerous journey because of the left's lies .

If you had judges to adjudicate the claims then that would be different than just judging without due process. Guess it's easier your way. Still no excuse for breaking the law or jury rigging the system and claiming it's lawful. Keep hollering crazy stuff that only you righties believe.


You mean the supporters of the 90 trillion dollar loony bin idea known as the Green New Deal???

You will have to deal with air water and soil quality sooner or later bud. Guess you haven't heard more coal companies and mining operations that are closing up. That's okay, maybe you should Google that.


49197[/ATTACH]

Didn't work.

You will have to deal with air water and soil quality sooner or later bud. Guess you haven't heard more coal companies and mining operations that are closing up. That's okay, maybe you should Google that.

90 tril over 20 years is a doubling of the national budget. I know it's popular to pretend that money grows on trees in D.C. but really, how do you plan on paying for a crazy plan like that??? It's an impossible, foolish, crazy proposal. Coal is progressively being replaced by natural gas which is cleaner and cheaper. Nothing to do with fed policy. Maybe you should google that.

I don't know why my attachments so frequently don't work, but here's another attempt at it.

49198

The kid thinks big I'll give her that but it's but one option and still in the big idea stage. The devil is in the details, and those I haven't seen so no reason to get excited. I'm sure there are other more viable plans and the likely hood hers bears fruit is NIL for now the way I see it. I'm sure other plans will come along. More fleshed out ones.

Naw the second attempt is a dud too. Copy and paste maybe? You know right click copy right click paste?

The kid thinks big I'll give her that but it's but one option and still in the big idea stage. The devil is in the details, and those I haven't seen so no reason to get excited.

It's about on the level on me saying to my wife, "Honey, I think we need to buy the mansion in the middle of the town. It's only priced at two million dollars. We are about a million in debt now, and I have no earthly idea of how we could pay that. In fact, it's actually completely impossible that we could pay it, but after all, the devil is in the details, so there is no real reason to get excited about it."

Copy and paste won't work. It did work at one time for me, but now it won't. I imagine the Russkies are behind it.

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/66649743_10156049511817471_2989583630730264576_o.j pg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_eui2=AeEfglUiCTqnjK9vp1mM2QapKmeU_Rfw7cB0X1IDz zKrJ3QvyiTQ-uY28htK1I1yWxDLCykit0NsezZEeZ93g6SYDNmwbhiFNppudcw Yvw4feQ&_nc_oc=AQl4jNKACAnVBGvry5Xn3pkvYYd37NHzftm9YVcj5Dn coq5_mYLaT1wEwSSdL1irDIA&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=21e026648610861e00879d3989620ace&oe=5DA660FF

It's about on the level on me saying to my wife, "Honey, I think we need to buy the mansion in the middle of the town. It's only priced at two million dollars. We are about a million in debt now, and I have no earthly idea of how we could pay that. In fact, it's actually completely impossible that we could pay it, but after all, the devil is in the details, so there is no real reason to get excited about it."

I think a better analogy would be your kid asking you for help with a down payment on a house and she will pay you back when she gets a job. In your analogy your wife would dismiss your big dream talk with a pat on the head, and tell you don't forget to take out the garbage in the mansion you're in.


Copy and paste won't work. It did work at one time for me, but now it won't. I imagine the Russkies are behind it.

Or you have computer maintenance issues. More and more online stuff has protected programs that prevent copy and paste. BUMMER!

@Tom. Good one so early in the morning. No line ups to adjust?

No line ups to adjust? I have 3 days to work that out . It appears that our contest will not be decided until late Sunday afternoon.

https://www.commondreams.org/sites/default/files/styles/cd_large/public/headlines/el_paso_camp.jpg?itok=L-e-svp4

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2rqjdNWoAAN6Ly.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2rq51hWoAgsvTh.jpg

You've seen the governments own pictures that everyone is so proud of haven't you?

So why are they all smiling in your pictures? Sure don't look miserable.

Since I can't seem to get copy/paste to work on this site, I'll just have to post the link. Obama's cages.

http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/5b0dbccf1ae66230008b4fec-2000/ap809246232474.jpg

We don't deny the cages, which sure look cleaner and more sanitary than the dufus cages wouldn't you say?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dhs-kevin-mcaleenan-denies-border-conditions_n_5d226253e4b01b834738b4b9

I hate having to go back and edit every freaking link I paste!!

We don't deny the cages, which sure look cleaner and more sanitary than the dufus cages wouldn't you say?

So that's the answer? "Yes, Obama also had cages, but his seemed to be cleaner and more sanitary." That's very reassuring. Well, at least you are admitting he had them. Honestly, the cages are simply detention areas that have been thrown up by people who were suddenly hit with unanticipated numbers of illegals. I imagine they are doing the best they can. I would think there have been some unfortunate lapses of judgement, but on the whole the people are being treated in an acceptable manner. They are fed and housed in what seems to be a safe environment and on a temporary basis. Just look at the smiling faces in your pictures. They sure didn't look unhappy to me.

At least you have figured out the copy/paste deal. You're ahead of me.

And the slaves were happy being slaves because they sang in the feilds. Come on man. Obama did away with the cages and found a better way than packing people in cages like nasty sardines but the dufus brought back that failed policy. If that's all the humane we can expect it's hard to give him any credit for an overwhelming situation. His F stands in my book handling this and other situations until he does better. MUCH better I may add.

Obama did away with the cages and found a better way

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-numbers/story?id=41715661

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-numbers/story?id=41715661

You'd think you guys would have appreciated that.

Just because they aren't being put up in the Hilton doesn't mean they are not being handled in an acceptable manner. The smiles on their faces tends to work against your narrative that their situation is miserable.

You'd think you guys would have appreciated that.
I do . Wish Trump would do more deportations . He said he would ;but in the interest of 'bipartisanship' ,he backed off . That was a mistake .As you know ;the Dems have no intention to cooperate at the border .

Just because they aren't being put up in the Hilton doesn't mean they are not being handled in an acceptable manner. The smiles on their faces tends to work against your narrative that their situation is miserable.

You've said that twice now, but the slaves were happy being slaves because they sang in the fields? Come on man. Maybe the dufus should put them up in a luxury hotel of his and make Mexico pay for it.


As you know ;the Dems have no intention to cooperate at the border .

I wouldn't cooperate with the dufus or duficans on anything either. Just past history redux.

You've said that twice now, but the slaves were happy being slaves because they sang in the fields? Come on man. Maybe the dufus should put them up in a luxury hotel of his and make Mexico pay for it.

These people are not slaves and they are not singing in the fields. They are smiling in pictures that you posted supposedly showing their terrible living conditions. Most people in misery don't smile for pictures.

I think making Mexico pay for it is a great idea.

Geez JL, so we should just ignore the dufus IG report that flagged the detention facilities as lousy places months ago?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/07/05/immigration-trump-defends-beautifully-run-detention-facilities/1660455001/

Here's the report

https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/assets/2019-07/OIG-19-51-Jul19_.pdf

I read through the report. Sounds like overcrowding as a result of a large influx of illegals. Other than complaints such as not having access regularly to showers, having to eat sandwiches rather than hot meals, or not having sufficient access to clean clothes, they all seemed to be safe and fed. It is a short term discomfort, unfortunate but far from lethal. There are no allegations of sexual or physical assaults as was alleged on this board a week ago. No allegations of people eating frozen food. I'm certain the democrats in Congress will rapidly move to expand funding to alleviate these problems.

I hope you read the response from CBP and ICE at the end of the report. I wish I could copy and paste sections but it won't allow it for some reason. Probably a Russian plot.

There have been allegations of sexual abuse even though it's not in the report, as well as the mistreatment of migrants and other incidents of cruelty. Matter of fact, new allegations have surfaced in another detention camp in Arizona, so we just have to see how that pans out. I can agree that the current situation has been caused by the increase in migrants but the dufus has been hollering they were coming long enough to be not only better prepared, but expecting it, seeing as this is a typical yearly seasonal occurrence going back decades. The trend has also been to see decreased migration patterns as the summer gets going.

If the trends hold that will ease the current situation if the dufus gets on with a timely humane process. I find it telling, cruel, and sad, the situation was allowed to get where it is, resources not appropriated in a timely or orderly fashion, and is being politicized the way it is. Another F for the Dufus's handling of the whole thing.

If the trends hold that will ease the current situation if the dufus gets on with a timely humane process. I find it telling, cruel, and sad, the situation was allowed to get where it is, resources not appropriated in a timely or orderly fashion, and is being politicized the way it is. Another F for the Dufus's handling of the whole thing.

In the meantime, dozens of homicides occur every week in liberal, democrat strongholds. No one cares. No one protests Now if an illegal immigrant has to eat a sandwich in place of a hot meal, or if they have to wear the same clothes for a week, then we need to raise heck about that.

I think you live in a strange world. I suspect that if this was occurring under Obama, you'd be OK with it. And, of course, it did, in fact, occur with Obama as the pics prove.

You don't care about homicides in dem strong holes either. No more than you care about the allegations and charges of abuse neglect and crimes in government detention centers. Nor about the VA backlog, or the suicide crisis and neither do you care about the abuse of minorities in your own back yard choosing incarceration over evaluation and blaming the DOJ for calling you on it.

I live in a strange world? I guess I do since yours seems quite bizarre to me.

You don't care about homicides in dem strong holes either.

Strange that I'm the only one who brings it up, isn't it?


No more than you care about the allegations and charges of abuse neglect and crimes in government detention centers. Nor about the VA backlog, or the suicide crisis and neither do you care about the abuse of minorities in your own back yard choosing incarceration over evaluation and blaming the DOJ for calling you on it.

And again, it would not be talked about on this board at all if I didn't bring it up. The VA backlog is an Obama scandal that, since it doesn't involve Trump, you just seem to choose to ignore.

My point, of course, is that most of us practice some selective outrage. I don't put anyone on this board on the high moral pedestal because they claim to be concerned about the southern border. Maybe we should have some non-partisan discussions about what should actually be done to solve these problems.

Tal, have you noticed that it seems to have come down to the two of us trying to uphold the conversations about important national matters? I think we should get a medal of some sort.

Maybe we should have some non-partisan discussions about what should actually be done to solve these problems.
What a concept! Maybe I'd return.

Maybe I'd return.

One can only hope.

Bipartisanship, you will be proposing concensus next

Nonpartisan, not bipartisan. Not the same thing, but I would hope we would be able to come up with some common sense proposals supported by both parties.

now this presupposed common sense exists in a political environment. Politics suffers from the not invented here syndrome, the idea that good ideas cannot exist outside of the party caucus

Repub politics is built around party control and MO'MONEY. So are the dems, they just trickle down more crumbs at a greater pace. That's why dems look different than repubs, a more diverse coalition of the voting constituency. Logic and common sense and ideas have little to do with CONTROL of the purse strings or self enrichment.

What makes it the system that it is Clete, is it goes back and forth, progress is slow, but the power of policy can change every two years.

What makes it the system that it is Clete, is it goes back and forth, progress is slow, but the power of policy can change every two years.

what you fail to recognise Tal is that two years is too short a time for policy to come into effect and so the winds blow this way and that and progress stalls. Congress they say is the opposite of progress

Oh I think we recognize that, but we screw up so many elections we need as many as we can get.

Oh I think we recognize that, but we screw up so many elections we need as many as we can get.

I find our election cycle at three years too short, but we do seem to have progress on some fronts as the government doesn't have to focus on an electoral cycle so frequently. Mind you, a six year senate term does wonders too and the lack of a postering braggart
chasing glory seems to allow leadership to actually maintain momentum

Senators serve 6 years and Representatives serve for 2 before they must be re elected, and of course the prez faces re election every 4 years. It's staggered but every two years things could change in the house and senate. The prez is the only one term limited, thanks to Roosevelt and the 22nd amendment. More elections swing the pendulum faster in theory. It works well until they decided to buy the elected officials lawfully instead of under the table like was done before. Or just fund the campaign for a lackey to help their "DONORS".

Corruption is a team sport here.

Corruption is a team sport here.

Yes I got that

Corruption is a team sport here.

It's true everywhere, but I wouldn't trade our system of government for any other I know of.

It's all the same, you silly humans. You just change the name but it's the same game. CONTROL THE MONEY, AND THE PEOPLE.

It's true everywhere, but I wouldn't trade our system of government for any other I know of.

I think it can be improved on and has been

I think it can be improved on

We agree on that. We need some limitations on the Supreme Court, for instance.

We agree on that. We need some limitations on the Supreme Court, for instance.

You've already got your 5-4 majority. Isn't that good enough? How about some limits on the dufus in chief, or co signer Mitch and his band of sycophants. They finally visited a detention center, not the one cited in the IG report, a newer one and Pence said everything looks good to him, even though that one was overflowing with stinky migrants held without due process in the Texas heat.

You could start the improvements there before you bring in even more with raids in major cities.

You've already got your 5-4 majority.

I don't think we have that.

The pres can veto congressional acts. The congress can overturn a veto with a super-majority. What checks and balances apply to SCOTUS??

What sort of limits do you suggest? It would seem consensus and bi partisanship could solve that situation. Tom thinks term limits are the answer. I'm not completely sold on that either since it would just be another fight about who gets to appoint the judges they want.

I'm talking about when the Supreme Court makes a highly questionable decision that is not supported by the Constitution such as the abortion decision in Roe V. Wade. Once they make a decision, there is no check or balance for it. The gay marriage decision is another questionable one. The only solution would be to pass a Constitutional amendment which is really, really difficult.

Even if you don't like those examples, I hope you get the point. There should be some way to override a SC decision.

There should be some way to override a SC decision. Very difficult since the country accepted the 'Marbury v Madison' decision that turned SCOTUS from a co-equal branch to the "supreme" "final arbiter " …..and that is NOT what the framers intended the court to be . SCOTUS has many historically terrible decisions that I have noted .It doesn't matter where you stand politically .We can all agree that the Dred Scott decision ,which was the single greatest contributor to the Civil War (because it negated the Congressional attempts to come to a political compromise to keep the union together ) was wrongly decided . (it voided the Missouri Compromise ) .There are very few people who would argue that 'Plessy v Ferguson ' (which codified into law Jim Crow laws in the South ) was correctly decided .We know that because a different SCOTUS reversed it. But that was the court reversing the court .

I have waited all my life the see a President (who is the only enforcement means SCOTUS has ) to say to them NO I do not recognize your decision and will not enforce it . Andrew Jackson said it in a case he was clearly wrong about . He backed down . I would've loved to see Trump say "stop me from printing and distributing a census with a citizen question " when every one knows that there has been a citizen question in the census in the recent past and there was no basis for saying it is unconstitutional . But he backed off .They say it would've created a constitutional crisis ...HOW ? Any more than the previous administration using the court system to spy on political opponents ?

J you say passing an amendment is difficult . I say in 21st century America it is virtually impossible to get one passed through the current process of amendments being initiated in Congress. Yet we all know that the system is begging for amendments ;ESPECIALLY one to reign in the appointed for like ,black robed oligarchs .
That is why I believe that amendments have to be initiated by the states by the other means the framers gave us to create and pass amendments .



The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress
A convention could debate and propose one or as many amendments as it deems necessary . The amendments would still need the final ratification of 3/4 of the states. That doesn't change The big difference it that Congress is out of the process.

27 States have valid applications for an Art 5 convention .34 are needed . I believe it will happen .

After the states pass amendments, who reviews that process?

the states ratify them according to Art 5 . But instead of the 2/3 of the states needed for a convention ;3/4 or 38 states are needed to ratify . That doesn't change as it is the same ratification process when Congress proposes them.

;3/4 or 38 states are needed to ratify . That doesn't change as it is the same ratification process when Congress proposes them.

Daunting.

Not an easy lift nor a quick one, but I would have loved the dufus to challenge the census question too, but for a different reason, since I think such a blatant rebuke of SCOTUS would have made a lie of the reason for bypassing the cases in the federal court because of the urgency of the July 30th printing deadline. So he wouldn't be just overriding SCOTUS, but the whole appeals process with an executive order. It would have invited another lengthy court case which would effectively been to late to stop the census and very embarrassing to maybe end up in front of the same SCOTUS again.

I would have enjoyed the circus.

The framers did not intend to make it easy .What they gave us is options ;options we have not used .There are some who fear a convention could become a run away convention . They use the 1st Constitutional Convention as an example where delegates were sent to amend the Articles of Confederation ;and instead created a whole new governing model. I don't believe that is possible today . The states can control the convention up front by setting the terms about what amendments can be debated .

What I'm saying is some needed amendments like term limits on Congress will NEVER be passed by Congress . As far as SCOTUS goes ;I'd set term limits on them ,and an over rule /veto mechanism on their decisions . The most direct representation we have is Congress and then the Presidency . So yeah they should be able to change a SCOTUS call .

an over rule /veto mechanism on their decisions . The most direct representation we have is Congress and then the Presidency . So yeah they should be able to change a SCOTUS call .

At least worth considering. The trick is to have a system that provides for change but in a well-reasoned, rational manner.

27 amendments in 243 years 10 of them right off the bat ; only 3 after a Republican Congress had total control after the civil war . I'd say the system is well reasoned and rational.

I'd say the system is well reasoned and rational.

I'm talking about the year to year operations of the Congress. Rather than be driven by temporary emotional outbursts such as BLM, we need a deliberative system that takes the time to get it right.

What's BLM, and the relevance to the subject?

Then we need to repeal the 17th amendment . It is one of 4 amendments passed when progressivism first was gaining national prominence. It turned the Senate from a state appointed body to one of a popular vote . (the others were the income tax ;prohibition (since repealed ) and women suffrage ;the one they got right …. all passed in a 10 year period at the height of the progressive movement ….although THOSE progressives would be sickend as to where the progressive movement has gone....or maybe not )


As envisioned by the Framers of the Constitution, the Senate was to represent state interests in Congress. The House of Representatives was meant to be the part of the legislative branch closest to the people.Our bicameral legislature ; a lower chamber with proportional representation based on population and an upper chamber with representation equal for every state regardless of population , was not created thoughtlessly . It was borne out of intense and lengthy debate on the structure of America’s future government and,how to balance the interests of small states versus large states.The agreement reached between small-state interests seeking equal representation for all states regardless of population and large states seeking proportional representation across the board was known as the Connecticut Compromise, or, the “Great Compromise.” It satisfies the immediate interests of both large and small states, while effectively guarding against mob rule.



Without question, the 17th Amendment has led to more growth in the federal government since it eliminates the state voices that would traditionally advocate for a balance of power between state and federal government. The direct election of senators has almost completely undermined federalism. Repeal of the 17th amendment would be on my wish list for a convention .

Yeah that's what we need a governing body appointed by party bosses. Good luck trying to take from the population and give back to the straight politicians. It's bad enough elected officials are corrupted by big money interests isn't it? I think the balance of SCOTUS can be found in good consensus legislation that require more than divided partisan support. I've never know SCOTUS to buck the legislative body with that kind of clout and the WH behind them. Correct me if I'm wrong I think that's what the people want too.

Regardless I see no quick fixes to overturn SCOTUS without that demonstrative strong support. I prefer pragmatic and deliberative anyway than just a group wanting SCOTUS decisions over ignored because one party has control of the other branches by slim margins. Not at all thrilled about federalism just dilutes power of the people the whole concept behind self governance. Far as I'm concerned two elected senators for every state is fine by me. There are enough appointed powerbrokers in government already. You know those ACTING heads that have to need for advise and consent?

Now what's BLM? All I got is Bureau of Land Management.

It's bad enough elected officials are corrupted by big money interests isn't it? Before the 17th the Senate was a deliberative body with statesmen .
The argument that the popular vote for Senate selection gives the people a direct say in the legislative process is nonsense. That's why there's a House of Representatives.
The 17th Amendment was devastating to federalism It left the states powerless against a growing federal government. But you and I know it doesn't end there . The "progressives " want to abolish the Senate 1st and then abolish states .

The reason we are here now is because our government is doing things it was never designed to do. Senators and Congressional Reps were never supposed to serve for 30 years, Supreme Court isn't supposed to have unchecked and unlimited power.

As far as SCOTUS goes I'd set an over rule /veto mechanism on their decisions . The most direct representation we have is Congress and then the Presidency . So yeah they should be able to change a SCOTUS call .


Have Donald Trump able to change a SCOTUS call? Are you out of your mind?

Foreign observers must be shaking their heads in disbelief that adding a citizenship question to the U.S. census has proved so controversial.SCOTUS made an unconstitutional call saying that he could not reinstate a question about citizenship to the census. That's right REINSTATE .

The reason I know that is because they would not have ruled that way with any other President . The fact is that Congress exercised it's discretion and it's powers to delegate it's authority to the executive branch to conduct the census in the “form and content” that the secretary of commerce determines. That included the historical norm of including a citizenship question.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/13/141

This is how ridiculous this whole debate is …..
April 1 , 2020 ,the official counting day for the 2020 census, a caravan of 10,000 citizens of Hondurans storms across the U.S. border into California . Their leaders proclaim intent to remain as permanent residents.According to the Census Bureau’s Resident Rule , they can immediately fill out census forms and be included in the population of California for purposes of determining the state’s number of House seats and Electoral College votes.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2018/02/08/2018-02370/final-2020-census-residence-criteria-and-residence-situations

Or ; the 1 million people subject to deportation who remain in this country must be counted. The bureau’s current test is whether someone resides here, regardless of legal status, and nothing in its rule excludes them. So the apportionment of Representation to Congress ;and how many electoral votes the State gets is determined not by how many Legal residents there are ;but how many illegal residents resides in the state . That is totally F'ed up !



No I did not say he could change a SCOTUS call . I said he should've outright defy them . What are they going to do ? Recommend Congress impeach him ?

I see your point and I saw the coup of a party coming long before the dufus showed up to consolidate a stranglehold on repubs, but is that a function of the system, or a reaction of people who FEEL under represented by their duly elected government? Give repubs credit for quietly but relentlessly taking over state houses and governorships, Lets face it, you don't serve multiple terms without some powerful friends and big money. It's that undo influence that has thrown the balance of power out of whack. You know the new rules Tom, in some states if you don't fall in line you get replaced so the senate has to go along to get along. It's all about keeping power, but quiet as its kept SCOTUS doesn't have unlimited power. The divided congress is the powerless one here, caught between the fearless white house and the feckless senate who gives the WH all the power it needs to do literally whatever it wants.

To the point of the census question despite the evidence this is done as a conservative feel good to retain repub power, if it was as important and critical as you conservatives say there was a rationale simple path that should have been undertaken long time ago, that allowed a natural course through the courts. Like the Muslim ban legally and legislatively it was thrown together at the last minute and rejected. That was SLOPPY on repub part and incompetent. That's what comes from gut feelings driving decisions in a system that REQUIRES thoughtful pragmatic legal thinking.

Every body knows immigration has always been a wedge issue driven by fear, and the failure of congress to act as a collective instead of partisan body. RED meat for the repub base, will never translate to consensus in this instance and Robert should have just told the dufus to fix this legal crap. Repubs especially the wild eyed whipped up base is mad at SCOTUS and ready to burn the house down because they didn't get what they wanted when they wanted, and insult to injury the court rejected even hearing it again with new lawyers assigned.

Bottom line is the deal maker dufus is no statesman, and neither are the people around him who enable his incompetent sloppy legal machinations to be put forth. Add to that the simple fact he had no hope of meeting the deadline for such a deal to be done which wasn't that hard a lift because even you make the case from precedent. Why was it done away with in the first place? That's even easier to understand as historically people didn't want the government in on there business so didn't want to respond.

Who cuts their own throat and opens the door for government penalty? But repubs know that, and THAT was the purpose of this whole exercise to SCARE people! Just like announcing this round up, to scare people! Like zero tolerance designed to scare people! YUP, that's what we got since the dufus came down those steps announced he was running for prez, using fear and bluster and he never stopped campaigning even after he got what he went after and now seeks to keep it with more of the same.

Go ahead re elect the schemer, it's not like we don't deserve him.

, you don't serve multiple terms without some powerful friends and big money.
That may be a part of it ;but incumbency in Congress is over 90% rates so are you saying that over 90% of the incumbents from both parties are corrupted by big money ? The swamp is deeper than I thought.



but quiet as its kept SCOTUS doesn't have unlimited power.
on that point I totally disagree. There is no accountability except for the almost unheard of impeachment ;they serve forever even after their mental functions are gone . Do you think the carbonite sealed Ruth Ginsburg does any of her own opinions ?
https://babylonbee.com/img/articles/article-1978.jpg (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjf_tzFvLTjAhVKSN8KHYhwAlkQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbabylonbee.com%2Fnews%2Fruth-bader-ginsburg-encased-in-carbonite-until-next-court-session&psig=AOvVaw2fzgHSTPYnBm06_yt3jGKA&ust=1563195868286076)


The divided congress is the powerless one here, caught between the fearless white house and the feckless senate who gives the WH all the power it needs to do literally whatever it wants.


The House has the power of the purse .That is a very powerful tool. That they abdicate their power is on them . As I pointed out ,they gave total control of the census to the Executive branch . They could take it back any time they want to do so.



To the point of the census question despite the evidence this is done as a conservative feel good to retain repub power, if it was as important and critical as you conservatives say there was a rationale simple path that should have been undertaken long time ago, that allowed a natural course through the courts.


Bottom line is that whatever the motive for including the question ,it was not in the power of SCOTUS to referee and political dispute between the branches .



Why was it done away with in the first place? That's even easier to understand as historically people didn't want the government in on there business so didn't want to respond.
Having taken the census as well as other government mandatory surveys I can assure you that a citizen question is one of the least intrusive . A person can be a resident and a noncitizen .What you are really telling me is that illegals are reluctant to answer the question. Well BOOOOOOHOOOOO ! I don't particularly care about their sensitivities .

Think of it like the belief that registering your guns means they are planning to come knock on your door and confiscate them. That's what migrants and illegals feel would happen and that knock on the door by the feds is exact the fear. Now you may not care about them, but if you look back far enough YOU were them looking for a safe BETTER place. Is it there fault the resident migrants have decided to change the rules? The reason is the same and boggles my mind a nation of immigrants wouldn't understand that.

LOL, my moonshine making peeps in Tennessee didn't deal with the census either back in the day. Good luck knocking on there door. So you see you should care about migrant sensibilities. You know, I knew a few who even to this day check in with authorities when directed. I do have sympathy for their fears and sensibilities since there is no criminal or evil intent just FEAR of where they came from and FEAR of going back. Can't blame them. Seems like a humane process should come easy in this regard but honestly I have no sympathy for INTENTIONAL cruelty, or even INCOMPETENCE!

Both are pervasive in todays climate!



, you don't serve multiple terms without some powerful friends and big money.



That may be a part of it ;but incumbency in Congress is over 90% rates so are you saying that over 90% of the incumbents from both parties are corrupted by big money ? The swamp is deeper than I thought.

Uh oh are you waking up? Good Morning!


but quiet as its kept SCOTUS doesn't have unlimited power.



on that point I totally disagree. There is no accountability except for the almost unheard of impeachment ;they serve forever even after their mental functions are gone . Do you think the carbonite sealed Ruth Ginsburg does any of her own opinions ?

That's an option. Unused as you say but viable. Takes a united congress to make a case based of facts law, and not just sour grapes which is the case now.

You must also recognize that TWO sides appear before a judge, NOT ONE. Tell that to the dufus who tanked this census issue by lack of timely preparation. That's not the fault of SCOTUS. He tried to shove a decision through by skipping to many steps and lying about it.

Has he corrupted and disrupted DOJ? Heck yes! That's the REAL problem and you are distracted by his noise and rhetoric.

please make a distinction between legal and illegal immigrants .Your case is weakened when you group them as 1 legitimate group .



You must also recognize that TWO sides appear before a judge, NOT ONE. Tell that to the dufus who tanked this census issue by lack of timely preparation. That's not the fault of SCOTUS. He tried to shove a decision through by skipping to many steps and lying about it.
As I said ;motive should not be a consideration for SCOTUS . Either having a citizenship question is constitutional or not . It has been on and off the census many times so that question is already historically decided . And as I stated before ;article 2 of the 14th amendment almost mandates it .


Basically is states that if a state denies the franchise to anyone eligible to vote, its allotment of House seats shall be reduced in the proportion of citizens denied . .
Compliance is impossible without counting how many citizens live in each state.


That is why I favored the President issuing an EO stating that he was adding the question back into the census because it was impossible to comply with sec 2 of the 14th without having it in the census. His voting rights act argument was a weak secondary one he should've let alone. He is justified under the pretext I just mentioned .

Bad or nefarious intent is not allowed under our laws by anyone, not even the prez. Everybody on American soil is afforded some due process, so there is no difference between illegal or legal until a judge says so. A humane process is all I'm asking for everybody including the 50 million undocumented. No person in America can be rousted from their homes without a warrant signed by a judge or magistrate.

The corner store is a different matter, but I point out Obama NEVER announced any raids. He never disparaged or demonized aliens either, because those are the tools of the racist and reveals bad intent. Our laws require a lawful process and provides one, and anything less is despicable in my book.

I guess you would have to have peeps brought here in chains and vilified as less than to understand fear and terrorism and cruelty aimed at you. Just explaining my total disdain for the dufus and the way he does things. I just expect a lot better than what he is delivering.

Excuse the rant please.

He never disparaged or demonized aliens either, because those are the tools of the racist and reveals bad intent

"I don't agree with you, so you must be a racist."

I guess you haven't read the latest racist tweets this morning by your dufus! If you did you would understand the post.

There is not even a hint of racism in that tweet. This is one of those deals where a liberal is so wise that he can detect racism in an otherwise completely race-neutral post.

The reference for elected citizens to go back to their country and fix it before telling US how to run OUR country isn't racist to YOU?

I did not comment because I find the tweet indefensible . It is also inaccurate on the fact that AOC is an American by birth .
Ilhan Omar is the only one born outside the US .But they are citizens and elected public servants regardless of their politics . It is also bad politics because he helps the Dems unite in common cause just when there appeared to be a rift between Congressional leadership and the young guns.

I did not comment because I find the tweet indefensible . It is also inaccurate on the fact that AOC is an American by birth .
Ilhan Omar is the only one born outside the US
.But they are citizens and elected public servants regardless of their politics . It is also bad politics because he helps the Dems unite in common cause just when there appeared to be a rift between Congressional leadership and the young guns.
He's tired of being president. All the fun is gone. He wants to make sure he won't be reelected.

maybe so …

he is ignoring the 1st rule . When your opponent is digging a hole for themselves don't do anything to get in their way. Instead he appears to be taking the shovel and shouting "my hole ! "

maybe so …

he is ignoring the 1st rule . When your opponent is digging a hole for themselves don't do anything to get in their way. Instead he appears to be taking the shovel and shouting "my hole ! "

Like everything else, if Trump doesn't do it, think of it, it cannot be allowed, so good decision or bad decision, it has to be made in Trumpland by Emperor Trump. I thought you knew that. Maybe he will make one more crossing of the NK border and stay there with that other moron dictator

he is ignoring the 1st rule . When your opponent is digging a hole for themselves don't do anything to get in their way. Instead he appears to be taking the shovel and shouting "my hole ! "

He just can't keep his foot out of his mouth. Incredible.

You are just put out becuase you cannot Trump it

Where are the repubs in all this? Impeach this fool and put Pence in. Problem solved, peace and quiet on Earth.

If you could impeach a pres for saying something stupid, we wouldn't have any presidents last more than a year.

Saying stupid stuff is just the icing on the cake. The last straw to an endless record of bad behavior, and obstruction.

Not to mention the collusion and obstruction that Mueller and his team of liberal democrats declined to charge him with.

You might as well face it. There is no solid case against Trump other than that of having a big mouth.

"But publicly available voter registration information shows that 13 of the 17 members of Mueller's team have previously registered as Democrats, while four had no affiliation or their affiliation could not be found."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2018/03/18/trump-said-muellers-team-has-13-hardened-democrats-here-are-the-facts/?utm_term=.eef5da2e6e82

So your contention is that party affiliation taints the work ?

So your contention is that party affiliation taints the work ?

Is that a joke?

It is my contention that when you put together a team that is supposed to be neutral, then maybe you should actually go to a little trouble to be sure it really is.

If the whole team had been made up of enthusiastic Trump supporters, can you really say that you would consider that to be unimportant?

What's your evidence that the team Mueller, a republican, appointed by Rosenstein, another republican, is biased or has done something unethical?

is biased or has done something unethical?

I haven't said they have. In fact, I think they did a pretty good job which is kind of the whole point. A bunch of liberal democrats investigated the pres and declined to bring charges against him. That says a lot.

I haven't said they have. In fact, I think they did a pretty good job which is kind of the whole point. A bunch of liberal democrats investigated the pres and declined to bring charges against him. That says a lot.
That's not what happened!!!

I haven't said they have. In fact, I think they did a pretty good job which is kind of the whole point. A bunch of liberal democrats investigated the pres and declined to bring charges against him. That says a lot.

That's just by DOJ policy, and has been spelled out in great detail in the report. So to say declining to bring charges against the dufus is inaccurate. They were pointedly prohibited from such action. A far cry from he didn't do it.

That's not what happened!!!


Jl knows that perfectly well, WG, but he has a tendency to skew the truth when it serves him. That kind of post by jl makes him less and less credible - hanging himself by his own petard.


That's just by DOJ policy, and has been spelled out in great detail in the report. So to say declining to bring charges against the dufus is inaccurate. They were pointedly prohibited from such action. A far cry from he didn't do it.


You beat me to it. Odd that jl would post something so obviously incorrect for everyone to read.

So your contention is that party affiliation taints the work ?


http://static1.squarespace.com/static/52c2df7ae4b0d215dded86fd/536fab69e4b00b0fd2515399/58173467ff7c506b8fe021ff/1502295178251/Screen+Shot+2016-10-31+at+8.16.18+AM.png?format=1500w (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiA9t-A7bfjAhVshuAKHXZEAEsQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.getreligion.org%2Fgetreligio n%2F2016%2F10%2F31%2Fcmon-washington-post-tell-us-more-about-that-new-smithonian-religion-expert&psig=AOvVaw0EKxF6PXbsJc4VRiqTxww4&ust=1563311942962903)




.Peter Strzok was hired and would've remained on the staff except his very hostile emails were exposed .

That's just by DOJ policy, and has been spelled out in great detail in the report. So to say declining to bring charges against the dufus is inaccurate. They were pointedly prohibited from such action. A far cry from he didn't do it.

The report said, "The evidence we obtained about the President's actions and intent presents difficult issues that prevent us from conclusively determining that no criminal conduct occurred." In other words, the evidence obtained was not sufficient to demonstrate he was innocent, which of course is ridiculous since their job is to determine guilt, not innocence. That was in regard to the evidence, not to DOJ policies.

Pelosi/Hoyer say Hse could vote as early as Tuesday on a resolution regarding President Trump’s comments regarding the squad. However, the text of the resolution isn’t available. And, it is against House Rules to criticize the President on the floor.
But Dems could weaponize the resolution against Republicans. If written artfully, Dems put GOP members in a tough spot, conceivably daring them to vote against the resolution. If they vote for the resolution, they are breaking w/Trump. If they vote no, Dems will say they are defending Trumps "racist " comments .

It was terrific to watch the 4 "women of color" giving Trump a lesson in civics.

I suppose the hollering over racist comments is better than pictures of kids in cages for the Dufus's warped mind. It's only Tuesday.

is better than pictures of kids in cages

Obama got past it and so will Trump. Of course Obama had the compliant, lap-dog liberal media to help him out.

Dufus has Dufus TV, and FAUX News. It's a wash.

Dufus has Dufus TV, and FAUX News. It's a wash.

I guess if you consider 10-1 to be a wash, then yeah, it's a wash.

Hi everyone. I am new to this forum. I think God says do as I do, let refugees come into your country, give them food and housing and the peace will be everywhere on the planet.

I guess if you consider 10-1 to be a wash, then yeah, it's a wash.

Whose fault is that? I guess there is not enough of a market to support conservatives views. There certainly is in Texas, and I bet Ms. also.


Hi everyone. I am new to this forum. I think God says do as I do, let refugees come into your country, give them food and housing and the peace will be everywhere on the planet.

Welcome! You actually heard God say that?

Ben Shapiro's very good tweet about the four contentious congresswomen.

"I mean, two of these people are open anti-Semites, another has labeled detention centers concentration camps, and the fourth said over the weekend that minorities who disagree with her are sell-outs."

Not exactly heroes of the democrat party.

Not sure of the accuracy of the tweet at all but clearly the right is making 4 out of 230 or so dems the face of the party to hurl insults at and disparage. Political racial profiling and a clear dog whistle to racists and haters, but the only way to stir up a base and the only way the dufus get re elected.

the right is making 4 out of 230 or so dems the face of the party

The media is doing this. Repubs love it, but it's the media who is putting them forward.


Political racial profiling and a clear dog whistle to racists and haters,

Are you referring to the two anti-semites in that group of four?

What have they said lately since being corrected by the other dems? Naw the media ain't the one calling them out, it's the dufus and his sycophants and fans who have jumped on the band wagon. Wonder how high you were told to jump? Oh you didn't have to be told? You just held your nose and jumped? Now don't lie to me, we see you holding your nose AND jumping.

Wonder how high you were told to jump? Oh you didn't have to be told? You just held your nose and jumped? Now don't lie to me, we see you holding your nose AND jumping.

No one has told me to do anything, and certainly not Trump. I really pay very little attention to his public statements and tweets since they are so often disappointing. But if you want me to consider voting dem, you will have to nominate someone a lot better than the last loser you put forward. I believed then, and still do, that she was the worst presidential candidate of my lifetime. But she has great hope since Harris and Warren are possibilities.

I'd have a heart attack if me and you voted for the same person. I'll take that chance though.

I can see it happening some day, but keep your pacemaker up to date.

It is! Geez JL, the possibility made my day! Coffee on me! 8D

See ya in about an hour. We'll make it digital coffee.

Hi, talaniman. Thanks for the warm greeting. Of course, I haven't heard it from God but I believe that he would say it because he wants we be like a big family and it doesn't matter if you are rich or poor, or what color you are. It is just my opinion so don't be strict with me.

Hello, Tom. A word of advice. Discussions can get a little intense here so don't let it get to you. Glad to have you on board.

Tom be aware that there are several opinions here, some not so progressive

some not so progressive

Thank goodness!!

Yes well he should think we have progressed beyond the stone age, ie; many rock thrown on roofs

Hi everyone. I am new to this forum. I think God says do as I do, let refugees come into your country, give them food and housing and the peace will be everywhere on the planet.

https://d2u3dcdbebyaiu.cloudfront.net/uploads/atch_img/24/6f6a9f133df0933b8c1002149f488a22.jpeg

That was hilarious and also very accurate.

The 4 members of the "squad" are the new face of the Democrats and their star . Pelosi lied yesterday on their behalf during the hearing before the sanction vote . House rules say that her calling Trump a racist was not permitted .But she said it anyway and claimed she had it cleared by the House Parliamentarian. That was a lie. She should've put them in her place back in January .

btw in the Democrat civil war I am rooting for Biden and Pelosi .

AYANNA PRESSLEY: This is a distraction.

RASHIDA TLAIB: This is a distraction.

GAYLE KING: You say the word “distraction,” what do you say to those who say the four of you are also a distraction?

ILHAN OMAR: The insinuation of that question in itself is also a distraction.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-squad-rashida-tlaib-ayanna-pressley-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-ilhan-omar-gayle-king-interview-2019-07-17-today/

This country has endured 3 years of lies and subterfuge and nasty mouth utterings from this WH. Now all of a sudden dems get blasted by the right for crying FOUL. It took how long to rein in King from Iowa, and now you call foul on 4 women of color, Okay I get silly season is in full swing and the rhetoric flies all over the place. Looks like base vs base, the racists against the women of color.

Don't need to hold my nose for this easy peasy choice.

https://www.arcamax.com/newspics/173/17381/1738199.gif

That's how he started this crap, and that's what he keeps doing!

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.n7FPtw7eg7jCfS0AjFaTCQHaJl&w=159&h=206&c=8&rs=1&qlt=90&dpr=1.2&pid=3.1&rm=2 (https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=5+thumbs+down+image&id=FDE7B265C33B8EC624771D07B80E2029417EEB58&FORM=IQFRBA)

This country has endured 3 years of lies and subterfuge and nasty mouth utterings from this WH.

If you include the lies and subterfuge, make that 11 years. Obama was too slick, most of the time, to say what he was thinking.

You forgot the nasty mouth utterings absent during Obama, and dismiss the lies and subterfuge of the dufus on STEROIDS. Big difference between a spring rain and a hurricane with high winds and huge floods.

You forgot the nasty mouth utterings absent during Obama

No, I didn't. Read the post again. Obama was a polished, slick pol. Trump is a loud-mouthed businessman who just says what he thinks. Now that's not good, but at least we know where he stands. We never really knew that with Obama.

Maybe you did NOT, but is that his fault? I knew where he was coming from and the challenges he faced. So did the majority of America. Now that's a fact. I avoid talking about the dufus and his minority view and obvious flaws that bring out the worst in YOU, and ME! Obviously I disagree that Obama and the dufus are equally proficient.

https://www.arcamax.com/newspics/cache/lw600/173/17382/1738277.jpghttps://www.arcamax.com/newspics/cache/lw600/173/17365/1736599.jpg

I knew where he was coming from and the challenges he faced. So did the majority of America. Now that's a fact.

How would you know that?


I avoid talking about the dufus and his minority view and obvious flaws that bring out the worst in YOU, and ME!

When on earth did you start avoiding talking about Trump??? That's about all you do talk about!

I'm still gonna buy you coffee someday.

Obama was too slick, most of the time, to say what he was thinking.


How did you know what he was thinking?


How would you know that?

Same way you knew what he was thinking.

How did you know what he was thinking?

That's a fair enough statement. I suppose it's safe to say that none of us knew what he was thinking.

GOP leaders voted to strip King of all committee assignments.Three Republicans ,Liz Cheney,Mitt Romeny Chris Stewart called for King's resignation. Kings comments were made in a NY TImes interview . Not on the house floor as Pelosi's were when she violated House rules yesterday. How many Dems voted to censure Rashid Tllaib when she said “impeach the motherf---er” ?

It took years for the GOP to react to King, 3 years of tthe dufus...NADA! Don't expect anything soon from dems!

Hi jlisenbe! Thanks for the great advice and have a good time here too. Buy the way, I have my own project here (https://goo.gl/JyHR37) and if you need such help do not be afraid to use it. Peace.

GOP leaders voted to strip King of all committee assignments.Three Republicans ,Liz Cheney,Mitt Romeny Chris Stewart called for King's resignation. Kings comments were made in a NY TImes interview . Not on the house floor as Pelosi's were when she violated House rules yesterday. How many Dems voted to censure Rashid Tllaib when she said “impeach the motherf---er” ?


You don't think the dufus has said and done worse? Repubs refuse to hold him accountable or reign him in.

another do as I say moment. .....Bernie Sanders has made it a position of his campaign that workers should ger minimum pay of $15 /hr .

Now his campaign staff is demanding he put his money where his mouth is .

https://www.newsweek.com/sanders-campaign-battles-staff-demanding-15-hourly-pay-which-candidate-says-should-federal-1450103

another do as I say moment. .....Bernie Sanders has made it a position of his campaign that workers should ger minimum pay of $15 /hr .

Now his campaign staff is demanding he put his money where his mouth is .


Bernie is a good little socialist, appealing to the staving masses

Good heavens, paid campaign staff, now there is a new concept for a socialist. You mean to say the Demonrats don't do it for love

you know ;you are right . The idea of paying staff must be a foreign concept for the like of Bolshevik Bernie. When you look at it that way ,he is being very generous . I'm sure Bernie's staff utilizes the old Soviet mantra
"As longas my boss pretends to pay me well, I will pretendto work hard."

you know ;you are right . The idea of paying staff must be a foreign concept for the like of Bolshevik Bernie. When you look at it that way ,he is being very generous . I'm sure Bernie's staff utilizes the old Soviet mantra
"As longas my boss pretends to pay me well, I will pretendto work hard."

and now you know why HC lost the election

and now you know why HC lost the election

Poor minority turnout in key states and counties. Russians influence on social media? The war against establishment politicians?

all excuses, the reality is your country wasn't ready for more of the same

Russians influence on social media?

And don't forget all those UFO's.

And don't forget all those UFO's.

You think aliens are watching us and placing bets on who wins amongst the human conflicts? Hmmm! In mythology the gods always helped their hero, in the movies too, so maybe you know more than you're telling. Spill it, before I place my bet!

There is about as much evidence for Martian interference as there is for the Russkies colluding with Trump.

Russians influence on social media?
Bwaaahaaa haa ! Evita spent more money on lunches than any Russian organization paidFacebook for ads and news feeds .
$46,000 was spent on Russian linked Facebook ads .That amounts to about 0.05 percent of the $81 million spent on Facebook ads by the Clinton and Trump campaigns combined.

The amounts don't change the fact that the Russians invaded social media for the dufus, or he knew and has to date denied it publically multiple times.

the facts are the the Ruskie pajama boys were doing it against both sides . They wanted to create chaos and the Dems in an effort to change the legitimate outcome gave them the chaos they seeked .

The dufus was a pretty good chaos campaigner himself as I remember it, but the numbers say turnout in key states were down enough for the dufus to squeak through so the rest is history. Hey there is enough blame on both sides here that delivered us this outcome, but mostly we dropped the ball.

seeked-sought?

the facts are the the Ruskie pajama boys were doing it against both sides . They wanted to create chaos and the Dems in an effort to change the legitimate outcome gave them the chaos they seeked .

There are no facts the Russians were supporting HC. In fact, the opposite is true - as everybody on the planet knows by now, except for you.

They hacked the DNC, had the emails released, etc., etc., etc. It's only the far right that continues this baloney, and that's simply a tactic to accuse the other side of what your side has been accused of. Goebbels was a master at this, blaming the Jews for the very things he was doing.

ummm even James Comey testified that the Ruskies attempted hacks at RNC sites ,but were less successful. Maybe that is because they weren't using home made servers hidden in their basements like Evita did.

and besides . The observation was about "
Russians invaded social media" for Trump .I already pointed out that the pajama boy troll farms did not spend enough on social media to make a dent in the outcome .Besides Facebook and Twiiter ,their limited resources were used on Instagram,Youtube ,Pintarest etc. Their intent was
to exploit societal fractures, erode our trust in media entities and the information environment, and in government. They played both sides and their efforts did not amount to a hill of beans.


Brett Gordon and Florian Zettelmeyer of Northwestern University and two Facebook employees, Neha Bhargava and Dan Chapsky, published a paper
on the efficiency of 15 Facebook advertising campaigns. Their most interesting finding was that methods which look at how many people were exposed to an ad and how many bought a product ;tend to overestimate the true effect of ads.
The main reason? Many of the people exposed to an ad or a post about a product would have bought it anyway. It's no different with candidates or causes.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3730430/Fbwhite-Long.pdf

There may be something to that Tom, as no matter what the dufus says or does those for him, stay with him. Repubs have NO choice but to back him no matter, what if they intend to survive any local election. Scary thought that 46% can beat 48%, but repubs have been working hard for years to find a way to hold on and overcome most of the country being against you.

Will 2020 be the same? Sure looks like that's the repub bet. If you imagine less than that 46% winning again, and the senate holding we may be in big trouble. TURNOUT is the key for us no doubt. We need that 50 or better to make the case for repub obstruction and antics. For sure 46% is not a mandate for anything but the dufus plunges ahead like it is.

if the Dems pick someone from the freak show then Trump will get a majority as well as an electoral land slide . The only question will be if he has coat tails .You don't believe me ? Nixon went into 1972 guilty as hell and the Dems proceeded to challenge him with the most radical lefty in the field Nixon ,carried 49 states . And McGovern using today Dem standards was Joe Biden-like moderate .

You do understand the task in front of the Dems don't you ? Since WWII only 2 incumbent Presidents lost reelection .Carter and GHW Bush . The thing they have in common is that the economy was in deep recession .

So for the Dems to win they have to hope for a bad economy next year (that is most likely not going to happen ) OR successfully impeach Trump in the next 15 months .

That is why you are going to see their Hail Mary attempt tomorrow . They are all collectively doing novenas tonight praying that Mueller goes along with their game plan.

If repubs can get the biggest freak ever to a win, then we must do the same whoever it is. I'm more interested in the senate. but if the dems define the Mueller Report with their questions then the facts come out. No I don't want the economy to tank to get rid of the dufus, but would love to have the economy improve, and get rid of the dufus. That would restore faith in my fellow countrymen and JUSTICE!

That would restore faith in my fellow countrymen and JUSTICE!

To suggest that a vote for Hillary could in any way be perceived as a vote for justice would be to stretch the truth far past the breaking point.

To suggest that a vote for Hillary could in any way be perceived as a vote for justice would be to stretch the truth far past the breaking point.
Huh? He didn't say anything about Hillary.

If repubs can get the biggest freak ever to a win, then we must do the same whoever it is. I'm more interested in the senate. but if the dems define the Mueller Report with their questions then the facts come out. No I don't want the economy to tank to get rid of the dufus, but would love to have the economy improve, and get rid of the dufus. That would restore faith in my fellow countrymen and JUSTICE!

Sound very clear to me, but I can understand suffering from some derangement or another. LOL, JL thinks everyone is deranged as he may be, and to be fair he could be right...sort of. I have my moments, but what do you expect surrounded by loonies and NUTS!

Except you WG, always the voice of reason, and Athos grounded in objective logic. 8D Even JL is okay sometimes, he just sees Obama and HC everywhere.

Huh? He didn't say anything about Hillary.

He said he would like to see Trump voted out which would be a "vote for justice." Now if a person had not voted for Trump, they would have voted for...guess who??? Wouldn't you think it was a pretty clear implication that voting for HC would have been a vote for justice?


JL thinks everyone is deranged as he may be, and to be fair he could be right...sort of.

That made me laugh. You might be closer to the truth than we would all like to think.

one of the 4 horsewomen of the apocalypse has upped the ante ;saying the minimum wage should be $20 /hr . WOW ! What will Bernie's staffers do now !
https://www.newsweek.com/rashida-tlaib-says-federal-minimum-wage-should-20-per-hour-not-15-1450607


This week at the Dems debates ....."ok ,a show of hands . How many of you agree that the minimum wage should be $20/hr ? "

omg I can't wait ! This will be more entertaining than Mueller's dodging and weaving ,bordering on contempt of Congress.

Why not? If 15 is good, then wouldn't 20 be even better? For that matter, what is wrong is 30 or 40?

Tomder, I think the dems have really discovered something here!! We can all be millionaires if we just raise the minimum wage high enough.

@JL
That was the last election and most of us have moved on to the next one, and DUMP DUFUS is the dem mantra NOW!
@TOM
$20 bucks sounds great! Rich guys would still be rich and poor folks would pay more taxes. WIN/WIN.

$20 bucks sounds great! Rich guys would still be rich and poor folks would pay more taxes. WIN/WIN.

Why not thirty? Why not forty?

He said he would like to see Trump voted out which would be a "vote for justice." Now if a person had not voted for Trump, they would have voted for...guess who??? Wouldn't you think it was a pretty clear implication that voting for HC would have been a vote for justice?
Has your doctor given you the Clock Draw Test lately -- or perhaps the 6CIT (6-item Cognitive Impairment Test)?

1. What year is it?
2. What month is it now?
3. Please repeat this name and address after me:
John Brown, 42 Market Street, Bristol
(Say three times. Tell them they need to remember this name and address for later.)
4. Without looking at your watch, say what the time is.
5. Count aloud backwards from 20 to 1.
6. Say the months of the year in reverse order.
7. Repeat the name and address that you were asked to remember earlier on in the test.

Why not thirty? Why not forty?

Well if $20 works well WHY NOT? What has a DECADES of $7.25 gotten us? Let's be clear though the federal minimum wage is the lowest a worker can get, but STATES can set there own, and states are doing exactly that.

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/pros-and-cons-of-raising-the-minimum-wage-2062521

I say we just see what the new minimums across the country bring and let's go from there. I realize the affects on not so rich employers may be of critical concerns.

add onto that the free guaranteed income,the free college education ;the free health care for all ;even the thousands of illegals pouring into the country ,
.They are not socialists .they are the Gimmee party of America . Sounds like a winning platform to me .

you are on you way to becoming the first money free economy, everything free

You still haven't explained why we would not raise it to thirty an hour.


Has your doctor given you the Clock Draw Test lately -- or perhaps the 6CIT (6-item Cognitive Impairment Test)?

Oh aren't you ashamed of yourself for shaming me like that? Like I have said many times. Liberals are forever wanting to be sensitive about what is said about them, but not so much for what is said by them.

But I'll take those tests if you'll take the plain as the nose on your face inference test.

Oh come on guys, the electoral math doesn't favor such an agenda, nor would repubs, even with minority numbers and no WH. You guys are determined to play chicken little during silly season. Go ahead though I am amused.


You still haven't explained why we would not raise it to thirty an hour.

Yes I did but you wouldn't understand my pragmatism, or why rush too far, too fast. Did you miss this?



I say we just see what the new minimums across the country bring and let's go from there. I realize the affects on not so rich employers may be of critical concerns.

Oh aren't you ashamed of yourself for shaming me like that? Like I have said many times. Liberals are forever wanting to be sensitive about what is said about them, but not so much for what is said by them.

But I'll take those tests if you'll take the plain as the nose on your face inference test.
I was just giving you back a bit of the "fun" you dish out at me.

Sure -- I LOVE tests!

Yes I did but you wouldn't understand my pragmatism, or why rush too far, too fast. Did you miss this?

I say we just see what the new minimums across the country bring and let's go from there. I realize the affects on not so rich employers may be of critical concerns.

Well, at least you understand the concept of unintended consequences, even if you don't highly value the concept of personal liberty.

If we go to twenty an hour, what effect on prices do you think that will have? What effect on the employment of low skill workers will it have? What effect on teen jobs will it have? What effect on entry-level positions will it have? What effect will it have on small businesses that are already struggling? How many millions of jobs will it cost?


I was just giving you back a bit of the "fun" you dish out at me.
How convenient for you.


Sure -- I LOVE tests!

Well, you'll need a lot of prep for this one. You don't appear to be ready....Kidding!!

why rush too far, too fast. Did you miss this?

Well that attitude left the Dems years ago . When Bernie Sanders is mainstream or not even the most radical socialist alternative then you know your lurch left has gone well past Fabianism principles .

Well, you'll need a lot of prep for this one. You don't appear to be ready....Kidding!!
May I listen to doo wop while I take the test?

May I listen to doo wop while I take the test?

I have no idea what "doo wop" is, but if it will help, then go for it.

Well that attitude left the Dems years ago . When Bernie Sanders is mainstream or not even the most radical socialist alternative then you know your lurch left has gone well past Fabianism principles .
Fabianism, well I haven't heard that one for a while, we will file that one with the
Ashkenazi jews shall we and while we are at it international communism is rampant

I have no idea what "doo wop" is, but if it will help, then go for it.
I thought you were over 60. Here's a good example:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VJcGi4-n_Yw

I thought you were over 60. Here's a good example:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VJcGi4-n_Yw


I know what it is. Fantastic selection!

I know what it is. Fantastic selection!
Wanna dance, Athos?

Wanna dance, Athos?

Sure. Do you know the Stomp Trump?

thought you were over 60. Here's a good example:

Nope. I'm in a holding pattern of 39.

Fabianism, well I haven't heard that one for a while I reserve that for people who think implementing socialism gradually is a new idea. (Fabianism is like boiling a frog slowly as opposed to turning the flames on high .The end result is the frog is still cooked )

I reserve that for people who think implementing socialism gradually is a new idea. (Fabianism is like boiling a frog slowly as opposed to turning the flames on high .The end result is the frog is still cooked )

Yes without the frog jumping out

Sort of like dragging conservatives into the modern day era of progressive ideas. All that 19/20th century labeling doesn't even apply.

you are the one who does the relabel thingy . "progressive ideas " date back to the mid 19th century . The Dems moved past them years ago . Their gradualism is from a socialist state to full blown Marxist tyranny.

The dufus is the tyrant, and repubs are his sycophants and that's the current state of things with all the rhetoric that goes with it. Sorry Tom, I don't like bullies who want to be strongmen and rule with deceit and lies over scared sheeple.

The dufus is the tyrant, and repubs are his sycophants and that's the current state of things with all the rhetoric that goes with it.

And once again, the supposedly tolerant, peace-loving liberal takes to name calling. It's funny on this board that the ones who voice such intolerance always come from the liberal side of things.

And once again, the supposedly tolerant, peace-loving liberal takes to name calling. It's funny on this board that the ones who voice such intolerance always come from the liberal side of things.

It is what they do, if you can't have a reasoned debate shout insults and demands

It is what they do, if you can't have a reasoned debate shout insults and demands

Sure seems right.

Wonder why us peace lovin' libs have changed from tolerant debate to chunkin' rocks at right wing heads? It's simple, there is only so much debate with intolerant dismissive conservatives and when that doesn't work...when in Rome, chunk the rocks! Did I warn you to duck? My bad!

Wonder why us peace lovin' libs have changed from tolerant debate to chunkin' rocks at right wing heads? It's simple, there is only so much debate with intolerant dismissive conservatives and when that doesn't work...when in Rome, chunk the rocks!

I knew it had to be someone else's fault. Taking responsibility is another problem with liberals.

I knew it had to be someone else's fault. Taking responsibility is another problem with liberals.

Responsibility, I think I heard of it once long ago

I knew it had to be someone else's fault. Taking responsibility is another problem with liberals.

I take full responsibility for blasting the dufus and his sycophants with relish. Did I warn you to duck? Take it as a courtesy and not a responsibility.

I take full responsibility for blasting the dufus and his sycophants with relish. Did I warn you to duck? Take it as a courtesy and not a responsibility.

Well, at least we have managed to find one honest liberal who DOES admit to believing in being intolerant and in name calling.

If by intolerant of BS, yes I am guilty of that. Most of what you're talking about is BS, and has nothing to do with what I am doing so, you do what you can, and I do what I do. Is that fair? Did I tell you to duck? PLEASE don't get between me and the dufus, because that's where I'm chunking my rocks!

Nothing personal my friend, but this IS the LAST warning! You're on your own!!

If by intolerant of BS, yes I am guilty of that.

Another of the "house rules" of liberalism. "It's wrong if you do it, but it's OK if I do it." When it comes to name calling and being disrespectful of those with whom you disagree, you should check to see if it would appear that Mr. Trump and you are brothers in the same fraternity. But you're free to do as you please. As a conservative, I'm just making a tolerant, respectful observation.

"On my own?" I never thought it was otherwise.

So why is Moscow Mitch stopping legislature to protect us in this cyberwar against countries interfering in our election?

https://www.salon.com/2019/07/26/msnbcs-joe-scarborough-buries-moscow-mitch-mcconnell-for-selling-out-american-democracy-to-russia_partner/

You think legislation protects you?

Words don't but the processes and procedures they set up is better than nothing. Why would you be against that?

Words don't but the processes and procedures they set up is better than nothing. Why would you be against that?


I answered this once but I will try again, I did not say I was against anything but noone needs more legislation, everywhere you go we are buried under it, what is needed is enforcement of the laws that exist. If they are found faulty they can be modified but the idea is we just add more and more words, making it harder to get the job done, It is called obstruction by administration. It is one of the reasons Hitler lost WWII

Big Bizz and special interests react really quickly to changes in the law and have the advantage of lawyers, accountants, and lobbyists here Clete, and lawmakers and the public don't always have the heart or skills to keep up to that. Some lawmakers NEED those special interest dollars just to get elected. I know, corruption has great potential. We call that DARK money and its very abundant! It's taken over the whole freaking country, and those interests are embodied by our current prez that makes everything a financial transaction, driven by the reality show and spin. RATINGS!

Yeah so we do need the legislation that reigns all that reality TV crap in and regulates the ever changing technical world we live in. If your life is built on laws, we do need lawmakers that can keep up with the BS and corruption and dark money and tricks and traps of the greedy takers, like dufus and Moscow Mitch and the rest of the greedy sycophants...elected, appointed, or just GREEDY! What! You cannot imagine a class of citizens that are above the law? We got it all and more in AMERICA, home of the free and brave as long as you can afford it!

Now that's reality, the real deal. Please no smart cracks about how you have built a better country beyond the BS! It just hasn't dawned on you yet. To think I was looking for a nice home in New Zealand.

I know, corruption has great potential. We call that DARK money and its very abundant! It's taken over the whole freaking country,

Tal I know your country is corrupt, it starts at the top and with trickle down economics it goes all the way to somewhere near the bottom. Probably doesn't get to the bottom 50%, they have other ways of feeding from the trough

but noone needs more legislation, everywhere you go we are buried under it,

Agree completely. We need less legislation and less big government.

Agree completely. We need less legislation and less big government.

Tell it to liberals who would see you sink under legislation

Tell it to liberals who would see you sink under legislation

And that can be extended to the federal tax code which is ridiculously large and complicated.

I thought the dufus and Mnuchin fixed the tax code when he gave the rich guys a raise? I thought he was going to fix the deficit too! What has he really done besides deregulate so his rich friends can extract more profit? The repub legislature sure hasn't written or passed any laws so who is doing the legislating in America?

It's a no brainer, the rich guys that the dufus gave the money to and increased the debt doing it. Just ask Moscow Mitch who wants a SANCTIONED Russian company to come to his state and employ American workers to benefit foreign oligarchs. That's not corruption?

I thought he was going to fix the deficit too! So did I, but instead he has copied his predecessor.


What has he really done besides deregulate so his rich friends can extract more profit?

OK. This must be a trick question. The answer is, "Give us the best economy we have had in decades." Does that work?? Sometimes you make this wayyyyy too easy.


The repub legislature sure hasn't written or passed any laws so who is doing the legislating in America?

You do realize the House is controlled by the dems, so you are really saying that the liberal dems have not passed or written any laws.

after 2010 the emperor ruled by decree . I personally like it when Congress is not writing and passing new laws. If it were up to me ;for every law and regulation passed there would be 10 eliminated . Trump's deregulations are his greatest acheivements so far . Now of course he blew it with the budget deal . But truth be told ;it's been years since the Republicans cared about the out of control debt . The swamp did a quick coupe de gras on the TeaParty movement which was in itself a last gasp effort to control the out of control Federal Government .

Trump's deregulations are his greatest acheivements so far .


Get real. His deregulation serves only to further concentrate the wealth - a sure sign of the continual destruction of any society. Every superior mind in history has warned of this very thing since Plato. (Jesus, too).

As capitalism tends to concentrate assets, it needs more and more regulation to prevent that from happening. Economics 101.

His deregulation serves only to further concentrate the wealth - a sure sign of the continual destruction of any society. Every superior mind in history has warned of this very thing since Plato. (Jesus, too).

I am not aware that Jesus even mentioned capitalism. What warning are you referring to?

Okay, I'll bite! Exactly what deregulations have been done? Where's the list? I've been asking for years about which regulations were so onerous, and no answer, but suspect it helps rich people make money, or lowers obligations and accountability when they screw up. So you tell me about those regulations so we can see if that's just another capitalists lie, like rich guy taxes are too high!

While your at it whose idea is it to hold a global economic meeting at a dufus property? Isn't there a regulation against that?



after 2010 the emperor ruled by decree . I personally like it when Congress is not writing and passing new laws. If it were up to me ;for every law and regulation passed there would be 10 eliminated . Trump's deregulations are his greatest acheivements so far . Now of course he blew it with the budget deal . But truth be told ;it's been years since the Republicans cared about the out of control debt . The swamp did a quick coupe de gras on the TeaParty movement which was in itself a last gasp effort to control the out of control Federal Government .

I see your point Tom, and it's a good one, but I also know you believe in unfettered capitalism. I also know you hate bailouts so let 'em fail when they screw up! I kind of wish we had, except for the workers with no job getting screwed the most.