Which is it?


Ultima Thule. Six and a half billion miles to look at a dirty snow ball in the shape of a snow man. You know I think someone is laughing at us, sort of let's see what they make of this. What have they proven? Snow men exist in space? No, I think they have proven humans are stupid.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/03/science/ultima-thule-pictures-new-horizons.html

We can't be too stupid if we can take such great pictures of such far away objects.

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/nDA63S1ZBCbVFGI0z70aVA--~A/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAw/https://media.zenfs.com/en/us.news.bgr.com/c96f5cb48a99b908bb56e5682974f624

Money well spent ! NASA gets a lot of well deserved criticism, but their space probes and the knowledge they get from them is still generations ahead of any other country. Aerobraking, gravity assisted speed and direction adjustments, navigation in deep space, were science fiction only a couple of decades ago. Now NASA is so experienced at it, these are almost routine.
Not only the tech but the math to compute these missions is amazing .

Each one of those planetary missions builds on what has been done before, but are essentially one-offs, and the work to figure out the mission, design it, and build it, takes a very long time, and a major bite of years out of the careers of those responsible.

A Galaxy Orbiting Our Own Just Appeared Out of Nowhere (http://www.thespaceacademy.org/2018/05/a-galaxy-orbiting-our-own-just-appeared.html?fbclid=IwAR0ITOEQ0H-h7V_PHDpUin_8HW368pn5Z9ORnc4U4ZyHEu5V6ycfRvbFWH8)

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49854803_1083267958541556_7047978922566221824_n.pn g?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=50281d88e652deede0a2d5f1406db817&oe=5CD61922

We can't be too stupid if we can take such great pictures of such far away objects.


It is my contention, Tal, that we are stupid, not because we can do this, but that we make it a priority above solving the problems that exist on this planet. There is a difference between wisdom and ability, and it seems we always take ability over wisdom


A Galaxy Orbiting Our Own Just Appeared Out of Nowhere (http://www.thespaceacademy.org/2018/05/a-galaxy-orbiting-our-own-just-appeared.html?fbclid=IwAR0ITOEQ0H-h7V_PHDpUin_8HW368pn5Z9ORnc4U4ZyHEu5V6ycfRvbFWH8)

Well hurrah another faint object we can attempt to reach and take pretty pictures of. Like your representation of the solar system, pity only one of these bodies is capable of supporting life, we might actually find intelligent life somewhere in the universe

It is my contention, Tal, that we are stupid, not because we can do this, but that we make it a priority above solving the problems that exist on this planet. There is a difference between wisdom and ability, and it seems we always take ability over wisdom
or we can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. NASA's budget is a little over$20 billion . Less than Boston spent to dig a tunnel . Of that New Horizon has cost about $700 million about $72 million a year . By contrast the Presidential election in 2016 cost $2.4 billion and combined with the congressional races cost $6.5 billion. So New Horizon's costs can hardly be called a "priority " Ask me where I'd rather see my tax money spent and you already know my answer . Through it's many course corrections and orbits around planets it has made many discoveries of our solar system ;especially about Pluto's features . Now a billion miles past Pluto it is giving us bird's eye views of objects in the Kuiper belt ,the very edge of the solar system . It's engine will last for years as it travels into deep space.
You should be thankful that humans were curious enough to get on the ships of their time and had the courage to travel to new discoveries like Australia . The list of human inventions that are a direct result of space exploration are too many to mention. For one thing ,we would not be communicating on the internet if it wasn't for space exploration.

or we can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. NASA's budget is a little over$20 billion . Less than Boston spent to dig a tunnel . Of that New Horizon has cost about $700 million about $72 million a year . By contrast the Presidential election in 2016 cost $2.4 billion and combined with the congressional races cost $6.5 billion. So New Horizon's costs can hardly be called a "priority " Ask me where I'd rather see my tax money spent and you already know my answer . Through it's many course corrections and orbits around planets it has made many discoveries of our solar system ;especially about Pluto's features . Now a billion miles past Pluto it is giving us bird's eye views of objects in the Kuiper belt ,the very edge of the solar system . It's engine will last for years as it travels into deep space.
You should be thankful that humans were curious enough to get on the ships of their time and had the courage to travel to new discoveries like Australia . The list of human inventions that are a direct result of space exploration are too many to mention. For one thing ,we would not be communicating on the internet if it wasn't for space exploration.


Why do I need to be thankful. Things happen, maybe discovery might have been slower if not for space exploration but then we wouldn't have had space exploration if it had not been for war and advances in rocketry, so should I be thankful for war. You see Tom, cause and effect isn't always what it seems. No doubt I could find something better to occupy my time if not for the internet

It is what it is Clete. Stuff happens that effects other stuff, or causes more stuff to happen. Humans tend to stumble and bumble through evolution you know, and spin the path from their own perspective.

Why do I need to be thankful. Things happen, maybe discovery might have been slower if not for space exploration but then we wouldn't have had space exploration if it had not been for war and advances in rocketry, so should I be thankful for war. You see Tom, cause and effect isn't always what it seems. No doubt I could find something better to occupy my time if not for the internet









Not just computers . All modern long distant communications came from putting satellites in orbit . How about solar cells ;artificial limbs ,VAD heart pumps ,scratch resistant lenses ,memory foam and foam insoles ,smoke detectors ,cordless tools ,modern water filtration systems ,microencapsulation technology to clean up oil spills radial tires that are longer lasting than steel radials , LED lighting ,all types of light weight gear for firefighting ,CAT scans ???????????????? The list goes on and on. If you look at it from an economic benefit analysis ;space exploration has more than paid for itself .

Not just computers . All modern long distant communications came from putting satellites in orbit . How about solar cells ;artificial limbs ,VAD heart pumps ,scratch resistant lenses ,memory foam and foam insoles ,smoke detectors ,cordless tools ,modern water filtration systems ,microencapsulation technology to clean up oil spills radial tires that are longer lasting than steel radials , LED lighting ,all types of light weight gear for firefighting ,CAT scans ???????????????? The list goes on and on. If you look at it from an economic benefit analysis ;space exploration has more than paid for itself .


There was long-distance communication long before satellites, but otherwise your point is a good one.

Not just computers . All modern long distant communications came from putting satellites in orbit . How about solar cells ;artificial limbs ,VAD heart pumps ,scratch resistant lenses ,memory foam and foam insoles ,smoke detectors ,cordless tools ,modern water filtration systems ,microencapsulation technology to clean up oil spills radial tires that are longer lasting than steel radials , LED lighting ,all types of light weight gear for firefighting ,CAT scans ???????????????? The list goes on and on. If you look at it from an economic benefit analysis ;space exploration has more than paid for itself .

Tom your illiteracy in regard to technology is mind boggling. Just because a technology was adapted to space doesn't mean space is the reason for its invention. Take radial tyres as an example, they were sold before the space race got going, artificial limbs were in existence at least a hundred years before the space race. Now if we could use the energy of the Moon we would be getting somewhere, but no, we want to establish a base on a lifeless planet

There was long-distance communication long before satellites,
but otherwise your point is a good one.
Thanks . I wasn't talking Ma Bell stringing wires on poles from house to house . Wireless communication only started when there were satellites to transmit messages .New Horizon just communicated from 4 billion miles away . That is ultima thule in my book !

Tom your illiteracy in regard to technology is mind boggling. Just because a technology was adapted to space doesn't mean space is the reason for its invention. Take radial tyres as an example, they were sold before the space race got going, artificial limbs were in existence at least a hundred years before the space race

.Your illiteracy is mind blowing . You have it completely backwards .The technology was not adapted for space . The technology was invented specifically for the needs of space travel; and then were adapted for consumer use. I was very specific about non-steel radials that are far superior to steel radials . The material used in radials today are 5 x stronger than steel radials and they were developed specifically for the parachutes for the Viking landers .
Artificial limbs ? You must be talking about wooden limbs . I'm talking about robotic and shock absorbing comfort materials designed for NASA robotic missions .
Environmental Robots Inc.’s developed artificial muscle systems with robotic sensing capabilities for use in NASA space robotic and extravehicular activities .They are being adapted to create more functional and comfortable artificial limbs Additionally, other adaptations of NASA’s temper foam technology have brought about custom moldable materials that look and feel of flesh.

Yes and the Russians invented Coca-cola and other myths. Robotics is the only way we are going to explore the solar system and I agree there have been great advances in that, but what has it done for the common man, put him out of work with the excuse that it is labour saving. Robots don't need comfort. Every advance is in incremental steps, just building one idea upon another. According to you necessity is no longer the mother of invention. I have no doubt you would like to claim my artificial hip joint is the result of the space race

I never pictured you as a luddite . Every technological invention has created MORE JOBS and more opportunities. As for your hip ;it depends on how old it is . New steel substitute and polymers developed for space are being applied by the Israeli's in hip replacements https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/mmatech-revolutionary-development-in-the-hip-replacement-arena-263621261.html

Thanks . I wasn't talking Ma Bell stringing wires on poles from house to house . Wireless communication only started when there were satellites to transmit messages .New Horizon just communicated from 4 billion miles away . That is ultima thule in my book !


Not to nitpick, but microwave (wireless) technology was available around 1945 years before satellites. Not until MCI showed up was it used because AT&T didn't want to replace its nationwide copper wire system that brought in all those nickels and dimes.

Also the wire technology was far superior to wireless. Today dropped calls are commonplace, and out-of-area problems, and scratchy connnections, etc. However, a HUGE advantage with wireless is cost - far cheaper.

But, as noted, technology marches on - no stopping it. The displaced labor force goes on to the new technology - always been like that since somebody used a harness on the neck of an ox.

The displaced labour force goes on to the new technology - always been like that since somebody used a harness on the neck of an ox.

The displaced labour force is displaced, thus generational unemployment, and the reason Trump was elected, promises of return to better days, But there was technology before the space race, something that is forgotten


I never pictured you as a luddite . Every technological invention has created MORE JOBS and more opportunities. As for your hip ;it depends on how old it is . New steel substitute and polymers developed for space are being applied by the Israeli's in hip replacements https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/mmatech-revolutionary-development-in-the-hip-replacement-arena-263621261.html

Cannot say Tom, three years ago so maybe okay. I'm not a luddite, I don't opposed technology and was at the forefront in my career, I just don't see space as the panacea for everything

I just don't see space as the panacea for everything
I don't see it as the panacea .I see it as the future . Let's put it this way . Just on objects we know of that we can reach now and possible send humans or robots to …..asteroid 433 eros has more gold and platinum than has ever been mined on Earth. Saturn's moon Titan has more liquid fuel than the known oil reserves on Earth ;Jupiter's moon Ganymede has more water than on Earth . Consider the possibility that the solution to some of earths problems could be found in the
research, invention, and exploration of space. From a personal note I have such an easier time cleaning my cooking pans that are made of Teflon ;you know ,that stuff NASA invented for space .


I had my problems with the emperor . But this is one thing he got right :



I know that some Americans have asked a question that's particularly apt on Tax Day: Why spend money on NASA at all? Why spend money solving problems in space when we do not lack for problems to solve here on the ground? Our country is still reeling from the worst economic turmoil we've known in generations. And we also have a massive structural deficit to close in the coming years.

But we know that this is a false choice. Yes, we need to fix our economy. Yes, we need to close our deficits. But for pennies on the dollar, the space program has fueled jobs and entire industries. For pennies on the dollar, the space program has improved our lives, advanced our society, strengthened our economy, and inspired generations of Americans.

Remarks of President Barack Obama Space Exploration in the 21st Century (http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=33900)

Space, your tax dollars at work. Ah, Tom, you have drunk the koolaid

I'd rather spend my money on space exploration than
federal grants to study how cocaine affects the sexual behavior of Japanese quails;than spending $1,7 billion maintaining empty buildings ,or the census bureau spending $2.5 million on a 30 second Super Bowl ad. ….or the $2.6 billion for 20 additional F-35s . or for the billions of other dollars spent on Congressional pet ear mark projects .

I'd rather spend my money on space exploration than
federal grants to study how cocaine affects the sexual behavior of Japanese quails;than spending $1,7 billion maintaining empty buildings ,or the census bureau spending $2.5 million on a 30 second Super Bowl ad. ….or the $2.6 billion for 20 additional F-35s . or for the billions of other dollars spent on Congressional pet ear mark projects .




Yes Tom there are many failings in the political system but this is because you tolerate and enshrine corruption. Remove private funding of electoral campaigns, remove lobbyists from the halls of power and you will see how quickly funding disappears from pet projects like NASA. The purpose of the space race was political, this is forgotten. There was little interest in it until the Russians one upped the US and got there first, but tell me what good did it do them, did they benefit from their investment? Only in having a system that now transports americans into space

I've documented many benefits already that have come from space exploration. You have to move on beyond the 1960s . Getting to the moon was a great achievement . I am proud of the role my father played as an engineer at Grumman. Space exploration has move way beyond those days . Most of the benefits I've mentioned happened because of the lunar and Shuttle days . Just imagine how humans will benefit from future exploration. Can you ? I guess not .

The latest picture from that snowball 6 and a half gazillion miles out there has this weird picture of a bald guy with a long nose hanging over a shelf or something and underneath it says "Kilroy was here".

Here it is if you missed it
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRm0Oiaah4OHXveljciK_ap3pEmQCP5Z 0bvIXS3RnSNuGEqW2FR
(https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fdn.truthorfiction.com% 2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F03%2F25035554%2Fimg315. jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.truthorfiction.com%2Fk ilroy%2F&docid=NLXg1QET8-InkM&tbnid=jps40WIoNTfgVM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwi63a_UrdnfAhVwmeAKHfwcCxAQMwibASglMCU. .i&w=1983&h=2040&bih=603&biw=1280&q=kilroy&ved=0ahUKEwi63a_UrdnfAhVwmeAKHfwcCxAQMwibASglMCU&iact=mrc&uact=8)

We have competition folk, and they ain't Russians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Lunar_Exploration_Program

They are quite ambitious.

Yes I have been following their progress. They did the soft landing Jan 2 . Manned missions are muck trickier and until we figure out how to keep humans physically strong in a space environment ,we won't be travelling too far. Preliminary results from ISS are not encouraging . However it all adds to the total human knowledge .

https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/main/index.html

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/styles/image_card_4x3_ratio/public/thumbnails/image/44911459904_375bc02163_k.jpg

Still makes my liver quiver

8D

Man has no business in space, it is a dangerous place for the human race, perhaps the space program going where it has is a recognition of that truth. Any challenge we undetake brings advances in technology, to suggest that we pursue space flight in order to gain mythological benefits ignores the challenges we already face requiring innovative solutions. Solve these and you may well solve some of the difficulties in space.

We need to be very suspicious of China's landing on the far side of the Moon. What purpose is served by operating outside of normal communications, testing new communications devices perhaps?

Man has no business in space,


Mankind has huge, basically unlimited, business in space. It has nothing to do with advances in technology, although that always is a result.

We go to space because it's there. It is mankind's destiny to travel to the furthest reaches of space and then to see what's on the other side. It is our nature to explore the unknown. Nothing will ever change that.

Mankind has huge, basically unlimited, business in space. It has nothing to do with advances in technology, although that always is a result.

We go to space because it's there. It is mankind's destiny to travel to the furthest reaches of space and then to see what's on the other side. It is our nature to explore the unknown. Nothing will ever change that.

Another one who has drunk the koolaid, this is not the same as a voyage to the New World or Australia in a leaky boat. No matter how much science fiction you swallow certain things are lacking vital to our wellbeing, gravity, atmosphere, shielding, propulsion

Another one who has drunk the koolaid,


That Koolaid is delicious (hic) - you ought to try some.

I have read much science fiction, they never solve the disconnect between reality and fiction. Someone wants us to believe that budgetary reasons are why the space program was curtailed and near Earth orbit missions are all that humans do. I'm not fooled by such explanations and am waiting for a more plausible explanation

They said Christopher Columbus would fall off the edge of the earth.

Indeed, and but for Panama he would have. There is a vast difference between exploring the contiguous space on the surface of this little rock, and sailing a void. Columbus had a gaol and little idea of the distance involved, we on the other hand, are not ignorant.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81eEq02EAML._SL1500_.jpg

Very true