In March 2002, President George W. Bush imposed a 30% tariff on Chinese steel. The results were chaotic.
The tariffs boosted the overall prices of steel and cost the U.S. 200,000 jobs in businesses that buy steel, representing $4 billion in lost wages.

http://www.tradepartnership.com/pdf_files/2002jobstudy.pdf



This study employed straight-forward and widely-accepted regression analysis using a variety of price and employment data to maximize the reliability of the results. We found that (bold added):
• 200,000 Americans lost their jobs to higher steel prices during 2002. These lost jobs represent approximately $4 billion ($5.5 billion in today’s dollars) in lost wages from February to November 2002.
• One out of four (50,000) of these job losses occurred in the metal manufacturing, machinery and equipment and transportation equipment and parts sectors.
• Job losses escalated steadily over 2002, peaking in November (at 202,000 jobs), and slightly declining to 197,000 jobs in December.
• More American workers lost their jobs in 2002 to higher steel prices than the total number employed by the U.S. steel industry itself (187,500 Americans were employed by U.S. steel producers in December 2002).
• Every U.S. state experienced employment losses from higher steel costs, with the highest losses occurring in California (19,392 jobs lost), Texas (15,826 jobs lost), Ohio (10,553 jobs lost), Michigan (9,829 jobs lost), Illinois (9,621 jobs lost), Pennsylvania (8,400 jobs lost), New York (8,901 jobs lost) and Florida (8,370 jobs lost). Sixteen states lost at least 4,500 steel consuming jobs each over the course of 2002 from higher steel prices.
• The analysis shows that American steel consumers have borne heavy costs from higher steel prices caused by shortages, tariffs and trade remedy duties, among other factors. Some customers of steel consumers have moved sourcing offshore as U.S. producers of steel-containing products became less reliable and more expensive. Other customers refused to accept higher prices from their suppliers and forced them to absorb the higher steel costs, which put many in a precarious (or worse) financial condition. The impact on steel-consuming industries has been significant.



The costs of protectionism always outweigh the benefits, and the jobs lost always outweigh the jobs saved, and that net loss of economic value is also reflected in stock market values ...the losses in market value suffered broadly by steel using industries outweighed the concentrated gains to the firms in the protected industry.

This model also held true when Reagan imposed tariffs to protect Harley Davidson. It is too early to gage the impact of Trump's silly tariffs on Canadian lumber and paper .One
small company in Washington state, Northern Pacific Paper, pushed for the paper tariffs . It employs 260 workers.
A Canadian company that employs 2,500 Americans will be hit by both the lumber and paper tariffs. There is the logic of protectionism in a nut shell. Trump argues that the steel tariffs are a national security concern . But that argument falls on it's face when you consider that American industry uses 70% US steel ,and a good part of the balance is supplied by allies .

All his steel tariffs will do is drive the cost of the raw materials used in industries like ......oh let's say the CONSTRUCTION industry ...of which Trump is allegedly a captain of . . go figure .

Trump has to do something to keep his constituency happy, and shooting at offshore targets is his way. So now the heat is off on gun control while everyone focuses on the fallout from a trade war and Russia's new nukes. You have to accept the truth, american industry isn't as competitive as it used to be. There is a reason why manufacturing is done in low wage countries. However a new opportunity is opening up for innovative american industry, China no longer wants to import rubbish (recycled waste) for processing.

America dominated post war when most of our competition was in rubble . It was inevitable that the US would give up market share . And it is a good thing. We have given up making trinkets and our manufacturing sector is thriving thank you very much with 21st century manufacturing . The emperor's shackles are being dismantled and American innovation unchained will dominate the future . We do not need protectionism for our products except for outright theft like the Chinese are wont to do.

Contrary to popular belief Dufus has done nothing to change the basics of a solid economy he walked into, and I just got my $25 dollar tax cut. How much was yours Tom?

Darn I just wrote a ton on this in the other thread, so we agree on his trade war stupidity, but as I have maintained he needed to change the subject from his WH woes, and the Mueller investigation, and the gun control stuff. He is the best at that, but he better figure out the process quickly or his party will suffer.

It ain't even spring yet!

America dominated post war when most of our competition was in rubble . It was inevitable that the US would give up market share . And it is a good thing. We have given up making trinkets and our manufacturing sector is thriving thank you very much with 21st century manufacturing . The emperor's shackles are being dismantled and American innovation unchained will dominate the future . We do not need protectionism for our products except for outright theft like the Chinese are wont to do.

You really do have to stop drinking that Koolaid Dump is dispensing. If you look at history civilisations rise and decline, the decline is painful and they are never as strong as they were before, but Britain has shown the way, they survived the dismantling of their empire, lots of pain but now they are strong




It ain't even spring yet!

Beware the ides of March tal

The Chinese have plenty up their sleeves, and more to come, since they made Xi the president for life. That alone would make The orange Dufus green with envy.

If you look at history civilisations rise and decline, the decline is painful and they are never as strong as they were before, but Britain has shown the way, they survived the dismantling of their empire, lots of pain but now they are strong Britain is a basket case . Their empire is dismantling on their own island .But their empire lasted a good 500 years . The Republic of Rome lasted 500 years and the empire 1500 years . Our greatness is in it's infancy .

. Our greatness is in it's infancy .

I really don't want to shatter your illusions and your sense of history is a little off. You have already had to give up parts of your empire and your recent acquisitions have not gone well.

territory of empires ebb and flow throughout history . Britain's greatest time came after they lost the American colonies . They would've lost Aussie too if your nation did not breast feed for so long.

America willingly gave up territory conquered ....something unique in the history of empires . Yes we won the continent at the point of the sword ,and through purchases . The only territory we retain from the Spanish American war is Puerto Rico and Guam ;and Puerto Rico could opt for independence any time they want to. We took no territory after the 2 world wars.Instead we stood as guardian at the gates making sure the communist nations did not enslave all of the nations liberated from Japan and Germany . Our forays into the ummah are to battle an extreme ideology ;not territorial acquisition Had we used the tactics of the Brits to suppress their colonies instead of liberating nations then we would have the most expansive empire in world history .

I really don't want to shatter your illusions and your sense of history is a little off. You have already had to give up parts of your empire and your recent acquisitions have not gone well.

You wish! Despite the challenges and obstacles we are still growing as dynamically as anybody. Just can't give the top dog credit for still being the top dog can you? Doesn't matter not one bit what the rest of the dogs are yapping about, or what they do about it!

Now what?

double uugh !!! Now he is threatening a trade war with the EU ! https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/969994273121820672

Domestic auto makers in the US are NOT suffering from EU competition. In fact many of the Euro brands have opened plants in the US and hire American workers ;including Fiat /Chrysler ;VW , Volvo And BMW . BMW hires almost 9,000 US employees in SC .VW 2000 in Chattanooga; Mercedes-Benz 4000 in Alabama. I guess it is a safe move because tariffs would not work on US cars sold in Europe . Most Europeans do not like American cars so the market isn't all that big to begin with .

Tom, Dump has little understanding of anything outside his narrow sphere of influence. He doesn't know how international trade works, he doesn't know how diplomacy works, he doesn't know how politics works, and he certainly doesn't know that economies transition.

Dump does not understand that the EU and China are very big trade partners, the flow of raw materials is important, and the flow of manufactures equally important. He doesn't understand that NAFTA has meant a broader sphere than just the US, there is an interdependancy.

You can get in to the micro economics of autos or steel manufacture and fabrication, whiskey or aeroplanes, which is the level Dump operates but he has to learn macro economics

He's a hit with the shock-jock crowd and the anti-liberals, and anti- government and a bunch of other dissatisfied constituents, and his base is the same base repubs will need to hold power during the coming elections, and they don't dare openly oppose him, no matter what he says or does. He knows that, and plays it like a fiddle.

It's Trumps party and establishment repubs can cry if they want to, as long as they fall in line.

Wish me luck as you wave me goodbye, Dump is engineering a crash so his buddies can take over

That's exactly what The Dufus wants. Get everyone excited and hair on fire over his words. Will the repubs in the congress act to curb his impulses? To address the REAL national security issues we face, both foreign and domestic? That's the real question.

He's a Dufus and everybody knows that!

So the bully in chief is at it again!

Trump Gives New NAFTA or Tariffs Ultimatum to Canada, Mexico | Fortune (http://fortune.com/2018/03/05/trump-tariffs-nafta-canada-mexico/)



Trump’s decision on tariffs came on Thursday in the middle of talks, catching negotiators off guard. On Sunday, Trump’s senior trade advisers said the president doesn’t want any nation excluded from the tariffs, set to be imposed as early as this week. Canada, the biggest supplier of steel and aluminum to the U.S., and Mexico, the No. 4 source of steel, have asked to be excluded, and both indicated they will strike back if Trump includes them in the stiff duties.

You may as well disband NAFTA now, this is what Dump wants; a protectionist barrier. He is all about building walls, tariff walls, border walls, before long he will build a great internet fire wall just like his buddy Xi.

I wonder does he lay awake at night and ponder how he can screw everyone

I wonder does he lay awake at night and ponder how he can screw everyone
He wants to be President for Life and Emperor of the US.

He wants to be President for Life and Emperor of the US.

Could you imagine that a dingbat on the throne for life, he will probably outdo farmer George in stupid ideas. You remember he was the one who imposed a tax on tea, and lost the americas.

George was mad . But it was Parliament that imposed the
Townshend Acts of 1767, named after Charles
Townshend ,the Chancellor of the Exchequer who proposed the taxes . Ironically it was a form of tariff because the colonies did not produce their own tea (there were also import duties on
glass, lead, paints, paper ). Well that had the predictable result . The colonist used less of these items and organized boycotts and of course there was smuggling . So Lord North rescinded the provisions except for tea . The
1773 Tea Act was passed, which allowed the East India Company to ship tea directly to the colonies. Then there was the Tea Party led by the Sons of Liberty and one of my favorite Founders ;Samuel Adams ,the cousin of John Adams .

George was mad . But it was Parliament that imposed the
Townshend Acts of 1767, named after Charles
Townshend ,the Chancellor of the Exchequer who proposed the taxes . Ironically it was a form of tariff because the colonies did not produce their own tea (there were also import duties on
glass, lead, paints, paper
). Well that had the predictable result . The colonist used less of these items and organized boycotts and of course there was smuggling . So Lord North rescinded the provisions except for tea . The
1773 Tea Act was passed, which allowed the East India Company to ship tea directly to the colonies. Then there was the Tea Party led by the Sons of Liberty and one of my favorite Founders ;Samuel Adams ,the cousin of John Adams .




Tom you can't let the facts get in the way of a good story or a little bit of rhetoric

True ,but the myth no longer matches the facts .He was not the one responsible for the policies that lost the American colonies . He in fact decided that it was no longer in the Kingdom's interest to prolong the war .

Washington did not believe that we were revolting against the monarchy . He and his offices toasted the King during meals .

He was one of the most enlightened men in England . His 65,000 books formed the backbone of the British Library . He also established
the Royal Academy of Arts. His interest in agriculture rivaled Jefferson's . His so called madness was a blood condition called porphyria which causes abdominal pain and epileptic like fits .His doctors gave him ' James powder ' which had arsenic in it ,which actually triggers porphyria attacks . Modern scientist believe he suffered bi polar symptoms . But those began to manifest themselves after the American Revolution.

Ok Tom, it was the British version of Congress that caused the problem, just goes to show politicians weren't anymore as trust worthy then as they are now

Well top economic advisor Gary Cohn resigned yesterday amid all the tariff talks, and that can't help the NAFTA negotiations. I doubt the Canadians or Mexican want to be bullied into a new deal here even with The Dufus dispatching his son in law to help out the talks.

The Dufus is also being sued by his porn star paramour, while Mueller bags another one.

Mueller investigation turns to UAE adviser: NYT (http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/mueller-investigation-turns-to-uae-adviser-nyt-1176931395795?playlist=associated)

I'm going to need a LOT more popcorn just to get through March.

Ah the ineveitable arab

They're in it up to their ears.

maybe Mueller will tie Trump in with those murdered Russians in England .

As far as Herr Donald's tariffs .......... he gives middle class tax cuts and then proposes tariffs that will raise consumer costs well above any tax break they receive . Schmuck !!!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/trump’s-steel-tariffs-are-hated-by-almost-every-us-industry/ar-BBJNdp8?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

You know the though just occurred to me, tariffs on steel make guns more expensive

One of Trump's representatives was on the news claiming the aluminum tariff will only raise the cost of beer a penny . We are apparently supposed to believe that the only product aluminum goes into is beer cans . Idiot !!! .

Good thing Chicago's South Steel Works and Pittsburgh's steel mills are still operating. Oooooops, they're not. Hmmmm....

and you seriously think that slapping Canada with tariffs would make a difference ? The last time someone slapped limited tariffs on steel from China ,more jobs were lost in the county than all the jobs in the steel industry combined . Trump has trade grossly wrong .

Milton Friedman said :



In the international trade area, the language is almost always about how we must export, and what’s really good is an industry that produces exports, and if we buy from abroad and import, that’s bad. But surely that’s upside-down. What we send abroad, we can’t eat, we can’t wear, we can’t use for our houses. The goods and services we send abroad, are goods and services not available to us. On the other hand, the goods and services we import, they provide us with TV sets we can watch, with automobiles we can drive, with all sorts of nice things for us to use.The gain from foreign trade is what we import. What we export is a cost of getting those imports. And the proper objective for a nation as Adam Smith put it, is to arrange things so that we get as large a volume of imports as possible, for as small a volume of exports as possible.This carries over to the terminology we use. When people talk about a favorable balance of trade, what is that term taken to mean? It’s taken to mean that we export more than we import. But from the point of our well-being, that’s an unfavorable balance. That means we’re sending out more goods and getting fewer in. Each of you in your private household would know better than that. You don’t regard it as a favorable balance, when you have to send out more goods to get fewer coming in. It’s favorable when you can get more by sending out less.
He also said that if a nation is dumping it's products on our market we should consider it a form of foreign aid to the US . I make exception to the argument of national security . But we already use 70% domestic steel in our market . The next 2 biggest imports of steel comes from allies Canada and Mexico. A very small percentage comes from China and other nations . So the national security argument holds no water.

Trump exempted Mexico and Canada from the tariffs, and left the door open for more exemptions for other countries, while checking another box for a campaign promise kept. For all the noise we could be at a zero total game.

If you exempt the main suppliers and China is 2.7% of the problem, it is difficult to see who, or what, is the real target. I suspect he is just playing to a audience as he did with DACA. Anyway, he has swept other contensous issues off the plate for the moment

I suspect he is just playing to a audience. yup and it makes no sense. Just his deregulation moves along with the tax cuts is going to drive up demand for US steel and aluminum. The workers are better off. The captains of the industry that still want to feast on the government teat ;too bad . Compete for your market share !

Trump exempted Mexico and Canada from the tariffs, and left the door open for more exemptions for other countries, yes and he's been on the horn with Turnbull too.



Trump exempted Mexico and Canada from the tariffs, and left the door open for more exemptions for other countries, yes and he's been on the horn with Turnbull too.

yes and he's been on the horn with Turnbull too.

.


Yes, he has exempted Australia, but we are not a big supplier, only supplying speciality product so that doesn't cut into what he is trying to achieve. Not sure what that is exactly, he wants polluting industries returned to the US and he is contravening existing agreements. That doesn't give surity for entering into FTA's with the US.

Dump's problem is he has no sense of history. He is a marionette

He is a DUFUS, and so does dumb stuff! Want to help steelworkers? Increase demand with a huge rebuilding program and use American steel! I mean DUH! The steel industry just got a tax cut like everybody else so did they use it to create jobs? Heck no, they gave the board of directors the money and hollered for MORE! I'm a steelworker and the handwriting has been on the wall for decades. Modern steelmaking processes use bots and techs that can run the computers, not 50 guys to dump the bucket, or swing a hammer.

Dufus claims to be a master builder so build stuff and not just a wall! HMM at least instead of concrete use STEEL! Then you can hook up a generator and electrify the bad boy!

He is a DUFUS, and so does dumb stuff! Want to help steelworkers? Increase demand with a huge rebuilding program and use American steel! I mean DUH! The steel industry just got a tax cut like everybody else so did they use it to create jobs? Heck no, they gave the board of directors the money and hollered for MORE! I'm a steelworker and the handwriting has been on the wall for decades. Modern steelmaking processes use bots and techs that can run the computers, not 50 guys to dump the bucket, or swing a hammer.

Dufus claims to be a master builder so build stuff and not just a wall! HMM at least instead of concrete use STEEL! Then you can hook up a generator and electrify the bad boy!


But Tal they didn't give him his wall, it would have used huge amounts of steel, so he has to help his constituents out some other way, and what happened to his infurstructure program, the problem is that obstructionist congress and senate, they just won't get out of the way and let the man work. If they did he could sweep you into trump utopia,a world of pristine golf courses and tall buildings, of new bridges and big walls,

The steel industry will NEVER be the employer it once was . Automation took care of that ,not a declining market share . Government subsidy just delays the inevitable . IF the steel industry is so critical to national security as herr Donald claims ,then the defense industry should take over United Steel .

But his argument is nonsense as well as yours is Tal. If you want to build infrastructure and foreign steel is in fact cheaper then why would you expect the taxpayer to pay top price for the steel used to build the infrastructure ? The tie up in Congress is funding . Typical politicians ;they pass tax relief and immediately search for ways to increase taxes . We know how this plays out . They want to increase gas taxes to pay for infrastructure . But they can't answer where all the money in the Highway Trust fund has gone. You do know that without adding a dime to existing spending that the Highway Trust fund will be insolvent by 2021 ? 2016 our lawmakers transferred $70 billion from general revenue to the fund .
Over the next decade, spending will exceed revenue and reserves by $139 billion....before any increase in spending is made . It is estimated that they would need to increase the national gas tax by 10 cents/gallon just to fund existing spending (it is already at
18.4-cent /gal).If that was the only excise on gas then maybe you could make the case for increasing the tax . But every taxing authority wants to wet their beak in that trough . Here is NY a
20 gallon fill-up, costs $13.80 in taxes.(Federal ,State ,Local,Motor Fuel excise ,Petroleum Business tax ,
state fund dedicated to petroleum-spill cleanup and to a fund for the state’s fuel testing program. And the real irony of it is that taxing is a disincentive for using it . With that and fuel efficiencies there is less of a demand for gasoline . So all their calculations are way off. That is why taxing authorities are looking for more creative user fees like increase use of EZ Pass tolling .Here bridges that used to be free to drive over suddenly have EZ Pass and license scanners . In NYC Sandinista Bill wants to have so called " congestion tolls " in down town NYC . It's a big rabbit hole. A real audit of funding spending would find criminal racketeering in the inefficiency.

Come now Tom, after deficit funded tax cuts, to unleash the economic growth, why are repubs scuffling with raising taxes on some things as a way to pay for infrastructure in the first place? Why haven't they made the case that the tax cuts would pay for that too? They haven't because they know that's as much of a lie as the tax cuts will pay for themselves. I get you guys want to starve the beast of big government, and let the states run their own show, but all you have done is redirected the collective wealth from the many to few, and left states with LESS money to operate. Lets not forget that also on the credit card is increased military spending, and so far no accounting for any of it.

Now you may love the ultra capitalists approach to modern America, run by the elite class, and their bought and paid for sycophants, but I would much prefer a more disciplined approach where people actually elect their servants to represent THEM, and solve their issues. On that subject why hasn't the ruling elites for all their money lobbied for an infrastructure bill, or reasonable protections for citizens to live free of being murdered by criminals and homicidal loonies?

They are drunk on the success of their own interests which is MO' Money. That what we get when we have rich guys as the President. Lying, cheating, stealing, and a lot of selfish self serving dumb stuff. The Dufus was corrupt before he became the president, and repubs didn't care then, and don't care now. You love it when his scandals, and name calling, and lies, grace your TV set don't you?

as I already demonstrated in my previous comment ,those "elected servants " are either the plunderers ;or are such poor managers as to not be trusted . Why is it that EVERY "trust" fund in the Federal Government is a within a decade of insolvency ? Their only answer to any of this is to print more debt . It doesn't matter what level of taxation we are at ,they still manage to spend more than the revenue . So tell me why I shouldn't take the position that we should starve the beast ?

Because the people are the beast you seek to starve, and just to take a different perspective being solvent for almost a decade during such a time of aging populations and increased retirements, a decade of solvency is not that bad, and lawmakers should get to work while they have time to work on it and deal with the debt.

You may want to drown it in a bath tub, but adding debts to your kids and kicking your elders to the curb doesn't sound like a workable plan to me, but self enrichment and power are some helluva motivations to bow to the capitalists oligarchs who don't give a damn about how YOU will survive. So while you rail against big gov, maybe draining the swamp against the corruptors would be nice. The Dufus promised that, and has yet to deliver, as he tries to consolidate his power, illegally and blatantly stupidly I might add.

Because the people are the beast you seek to starve, and just to take a different perspective being solvent for almost a decade during such a time of aging populations and increased retirements, a decade of solvency is not that bad, and lawmakers should get to work while they have time to work on it and deal with the debt.

You may want to drown it in a bath tub, but adding debts to your kids and kicking your elders to the curb doesn't sound like a workable plan to me, but self enrichment and power are some helluva motivations to bow to the capitalists oligarchs who don't give a damn about how YOU will survive. So while you rail against big gov, maybe draining the swamp against the corruptors would be nice. The Dufus promised that, and has yet to deliver, as he tries to consolidate his power, illegally and blatantly stupidly I might add.

Don't worry Tal they will soon put inflation back on the agenda and you will be able to add some more zeros to how things are measured and a trillion will only seem like a billion and in a generation it will seem like nothing, just as those WWII debts are nothing today

Tal ,if the new generation of Americans started a revolted and kicked our generation to the curb ,I would not blame them . We are the ones that maxed out the nation's credit cards . Don't blame corporations. We are the ones who send reps back at 90% incumbency rate .

Tal ,if the new generation of Americans started a revolted and kicked our generation to the curb ,I would not blame them . We are the ones that maxed out the nation's credit cards . Don't blame corporations. We are the ones who send reps back at 90% incumbency rate .

Yes no doubt you need a retirement plan for politicians, term limits would seem a good idea, since you have a four year presidential cycle and a two year electoral cycle, four years would seem good and one term in the Senate, you would see some things get done then

Tal ,if the new generation of Americans started a revolted and kicked our generation to the curb ,I would not blame them . We are the ones that maxed out the nation's credit cards . Don't blame corporations. We are the ones who send reps back at 90% incumbency rate .

They will get a chance to get started this fall imposing their own term limit on some incumbents.

They will get a chance to get started this fall imposing their own term limit on some incumbents.

I've heard the ballot box sometimes works, barring gerrymander and vote stuffing

I've heard the ballot box sometimes works, barring gerrymander and vote stuffing

Or the latest version of voter suppression tactics.

Or the latest version of voter suppression tactics.

Now Tal don't be racist, give those black people their own polling stations, the votes can get lost later, wink, wink

They will get a chance to get started this fall imposing their own term limit on some incumbents. Yeah I see with the Penn. special election in district 18 what the Dem game plan is going to be .... a repeat of 2006 ;the running of the blue dog Democrats who position themselves as moderate conservatives. But can they find enough 'blue dogs ' now that they have been effectively purged from the party ? BTW ,Connor Lamb practically ran on the Trump agenda.and he "clings to his guns ".

He also supports a woman's right to chose her own medical care, including abortion, as well as Obamacare, and background checks for guns, so he doesn't cling to his gun that tightly. Also he blasts the tax cuts as a giveaway to the rich, and that's the GOP signature issue, and thus far most significant accomplishment.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/13/politics/pennsylvania-18th-lamb-saccone-on-the-issues/index.html

Here is an example of state of the art infrastructure :https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/miami-pedestrian-bridge-collapses-trapping-unknown-number-people-n857011

Tragically they had a few flaws with the new stuff, but we know the old stuff could go just as tragically as well.

It seems like a bad case of it can't fall because nothing is holding it, very sad but better it didn't happen with pedestrian traffic

The Repubic controlled Congress is going to pass a massive "omnibus " bill that is a progressives wet dream.
Rather than spending the weeks leading up to the budget deadline outlining their vision for the country regarding spending priorities and policies, the GOP used the time to promote the possibility of including a number of Democratic priorities. This will most likely be the last major bill the current Congress passes before America goes to the polls in November and votes the scoundrels out who violated their pledge to America in 2010 when they captured the House in the tea party revolution .

They couldn't find enough Democrat priorities to shove into this
2,232-page package
(which law makers had less than 17 hrs to read ) . The Schmuckster is crowing today that the 'age of austerity is over ' as if reducing the rate of increase of the government is 'austerity ' . Actually herr Donald wanted to triple DACA amnesty and have that funded also ;but the Dems want to keep that issue alive for the campaign.
In exchange herr Donald doesn't even get the funding on the wall he requested . Instead addition spending is given to sanctuary cities !! It also funds PP ,something every Repubic ran against !!!! So Trump doesn't get the infrastructure ear mark program he requests ;but the Schuckster gets his earmark 'Gateway ' project that would build a' big dig ' like tunnel under the Hudson river ...............
$30 to $60 billion to the insurance companies for rate stabilization which is propping up much of the Obamacare regulatory burden The sad part is now not only will liberal priorities be shoved down out throats again ..... But the Congressional Repubics and herr Donald will be holding the ram rod.

You ask why I remain a never -Trumper ? There you have it . The Trump cheerleaders got betrayed today (assuming he will sign this porkulus 3.0)

Is this a bill hanging over from the Obama era and Dump is just too lazy to change it? You have got to wonder who is in charge, it doesn't sound like the art of the deal, or maybe it does

Nope it's an omnibus bill (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibus_bill) to fund the government until Sept. 3rd. Which is the end of the fiscal year.

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/21/595512197/congress-unveils-1-3-trillion-spending-bill-as-friday-deadline-looms

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/03/21/is-the-government-going-to-shut-down-friday-dont-rule-it-out/?utm_term=.9cb901458e45

Nope it's an omnibus bill (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibus_bill) to fund the government until Sept. 3rd. Which is the end of the fiscal year.

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/21/595512197/congress-unveils-1-3-trillion-spending-bill-as-friday-deadline-looms

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/03/21/is-the-government-going-to-shut-down-friday-dont-rule-it-out/?utm_term=.9cb901458e45

Yes but there is new spending in it. Just kicking the can down the road solves nothing. What will Dump do when he becomes a lame duck?

Spending begins in the House of Representatives before it goes to the Senate, and with so many differing factions left, right, and middle, small increments are all that can be achieved. The Dufus has a budget suggestion, but no one is bound to it, and with the current alignment of the congress you need a compromise to get business done. It's just a procedural and political reality.

That may change in November, or it may not. Stocked up on a bunch of buttery garlic crackers, and some great gourmet cheeses for the ongoing political circus Clete, and the March Madness Tournaments, and Baseball season beginning, thanks for the great suggestion.

I've said it for years ;it doesn't matter what party label a New York politician wears . They are all in the end just big government statists . herr Donald had a pang of conscious today because he heard the backlash . But in the end ;it was his supporters he threw under the bus. IF Evita had won ,the Repubics would've grown a backbone and voted against such budget busting spending . herr Donald is the best thing that has happened to the Dems .You want to talk collusion ? There it is .He's a Manchurian Democrat ;a Trojan horse .

I've said it for years ;it doesn't matter what party label a New York politician wears . They are all in the end just big government statists . herr Donald had a pang of conscious today because he heard the backlash . But in the end ;it was his supporters he threw under the bus. IF Evita had won ,the Repubics would've grown a backbone and voted against such budget busting spending . herr Donald is the best thing that has happened to the Dems .You want to talk collusion ? There it is .He's a Manchurian Democrat ;a Trojan horse .

Now didn't I say that before he was elected, he was in the race to have Dilliary elected and became the accidental President

The blowhard just wanted to make a soundbite that covered his arse with his base. This deal has been negotiated for the longest since the last shutdown threat, and it was obvious for one side to pass it, they would have to give the other side more than just crumbs, or lip service. Everybody knew what was coming and what would be required.

LOL, repubs better get use to compromising, because it is the SILLY SEASON of elections and taking votes on anything will have plenty of TV ads run against them.

Actually he looked like a big DUFUS reading the talking points about ships and planes and military stuff. Laughed my a$$ of when he touted the F35, and blustered how he "would NEVER sign another bill like this again!" What a maroon. He has always been a lying, cheating, bullying, moron, and it's shameful that people actually look to him to have something to feel good about themselves to make their America great again.

I was a never Trumpper way back in the day and it didn't matter what party he ran with. Thank the stars he chose to be a Republican.

nope party leaders Schmuckster ,Madam Mim ,Yertle the Turtle and Eddie Munster met behind closed doors to finalize the bill. There was less than 2 days to read it . This wasn't compromise it was 'ram it down our throats . We have to get back to normal budgeting where dept. by dept. is considered separately . herr Donald was doing CYA . This monstrosity bill was based on the budget he proposed. He can't escape that . It's like if the emperor said he would never sign porkulus again . Too late ! The damage is done.

Oh yeah that's a recipe for disaster letting repub run committee's vote their agendas through. No way would the dems go for that. Half of them wouldn't know what they were reading anyway and was it a coincidence the last day to keep the government open was the weekend the congress was planning its color Easter eggs and chase chocolate bunnies spring extravaganza?

I don't think so. Your right though it's signed, sealed, and delivered, so let's get on with the clown show. Take me out to the ballgame!

The debt is up over a $ trillion... the Dow is down. Maybe Repubics holding hands with Dems isn’t such a great idea. Most of the Rep class of 2010 ran because they thought the emperor's adding $800 billion in deficit spending was bad for the country . They may as well be wearing Donkey tee shirts .

The debt is up over a $ trillion... the Dow is down. Maybe Repubics holding hands with Dems isn’t such a great idea. Most of the Rep class of 2010 ran because they thought the emperor's adding $800 billion in deficit spending was bad for the country . They may as well be wearing Donkey tee shirts .


You would rather have a government shutdown?


Maybe my perspective is a bit different. There was no economic catastrophes when The Dufus took the WH. No secret war spending going on. Just a repub congress waiting for a repub to sign the agenda. So if things became whack on Dufus's watch, then he owns it, and he has said he loves the chaos. Fine, repubs got what they paid for, and are getting paid with those tax cuts. That was after failing to get anything else done. I can't wait for repubs to go home to see how well they took care of their constituents. Especially in November when those bonuses get spent and that 40/50/60 bucks of tax cuts goes toward those heating bills and groceries.

You may as well save your disappointments and reservations until REALITY settles in. All you need is a few layoffs and the price of a dollar to tick up to finally realize the Trump economy was no better than the Bush economy...in many ways it's worse, but the sugar high that The Dufus rode in on, is about to come crashing down.

Maybe The Dufus gets his line item veto, or convinces Moron Mitch to ditch the filibuster(Hardey Har Har!!). He better get something because Nancy is chomping at the bit to roll this lying, cheating, bully. Think he is watching the Gun Reform March?

There was no economic catastrophes when The Dufus took the WH. except an almost decade long stagnation that the Dems called 'the new normal'.



No secret war spending going on. You can't be serious . When the emperor left office our troops were engaged in conflicts in 7 different nations (Syria ;Iraq ;Afghanistan ,Yemen ,Somalia ,Pakistan)


Maybe The Dufus gets his line item veto unconstitutional ;can't happen without and amendment


convinces Moron Mitch to ditch the filibuster That's what Reid did when it suited him


He better get something because Nancy is chomping at the bit to roll this lying, cheating, bully. That's all the Dems have is this fantasy that they will impeach .


Think he is watching the Gun Reform March? Nahhh he is @ Mara Largo today .He worked very hard signing that p.o.s. spending bill . This march will be the last gasp of this anti-gun movement . The only reason it has lasted this long is because the advocate adults have been egging the students on. It's sorta like the 'Children's Crusades ' . Some adult thought it was a good idea when some kids said they could do a better job than the adults fighting jihadistan. So the adults dressed the kids up as warriors and paid for their passage into the war zone. As you know ,that did not turn out well. I guess marching in DC where there are about 125-150 homicides annually ;roughly half of them under 19 . But I suggest if they really want to make a statement they should head of north about an hour and have their march in Baltimore where there was 343 murderers last year . Or maybe the Patriots could lend them their jet again to fly to Chi-town where there has been 3,000 shootings this year alone. Parkland as bad as it was is a one off event . The children of Chicago live the threat every day .

There was no economic catastrophes when The Dufus took the WH.

except an almost decade long stagnation that the Dems called 'the new normal'.

Naw, that was Big BIZ holding the line on wages while they got PHAT with loot. Still they hollered about their taxes were too high, and got a deficit funded tax cut, which they immediately bought off the board and stock shares and that for them was NORMAL...Duh! I guess you missed the recession where millions of people got wiped out and have yet to recover. I know you hate regulation but wage stagnation cannot be cured with congress and repubs would NEVER raise the minimum wage, though many states have and more to follow.


No secret war spending going on.

You can't be serious . When the emperor left office our troops were engaged in conflicts in 7 different nations (Syria ;Iraq ;Afghanistan ,Yemen ,Somalia ,Pakistan)

All in the budget, check it out. The first thing Obama did was put the costs of wars back on the books after GWB hiss them with CR's


Maybe The Dufus gets his line item veto

unconstitutional ;can't happen without and amendment

That's why he is a DUFUS! Or he was just blowing smoke up his bases a$$...again.


convinces Moron Mitch to ditch the filibuster

That's what Reid did when it suited him

Oh how Repubs cried, but fact is it was limited and targeted and still used by repubs to this day. Poor Pence has to stick around to break ties in the senate to confirm The Dufus's cabinet and judicial nominees.


He better get something because Nancy is chomping at the bit to roll this lying, cheating, bully.

That's all the Dems have is this fantasy that they will impeach .

STEP RIGHT UP AND PLACE YOUR BETS!


Think he is watching the Gun Reform March?

Nahhh he is @ Mara Largo today .He worked very hard signing that p.o.s. spending bill .

That's all repubs wanted him to do sign his name but he won't shut up. Things would be easier if he did that! Likely his work is done until after the election unless they can't get a simple CR in September. I will have to comment on the rest of your paragraph at a later time. Chicago was HOME for me. Obviously I disagree with both your premise and conclusion.

On the march though, man those were some smart articulate young people and likely are driving the Dufus NUTS since the crowd was bigger than his inaugural address. Of course FOX News probably didn't cover it.

wouldn't know . It's been a long time since I wasted time watching news programs of any ilk. And the only radio show worth listening to is John Batchelor Show (http://www.johnbatchelorshow.com/)

[QUOTE]
There was no economic catastrophes when The Dufus took the WH.



No secret war spending going on.



How do you know? it's a secret


You can't be serious . When the emperor left office our troops were engaged in conflicts in 7 different nations (Syria ;Iraq ;Afghanistan ,Yemen ,Somalia ,Pakistan)

and you are still engaged in these wars and what about Africa?

unconstitutional ;can't happen without and amendment


That's why he is a DUFUS! Or he was just blowing smoke up his bases a$$...again.


convinces Moron Mitch to ditch the filibuster



The poli's won't ditch the filibuster, they hate free speech and love denying others the right to say something

.




Think he is watching the Gun Reform March?



No that sort of people power is not what Dump is about


Nahhh he is @ Mara Largo today .He worked very hard signing that p.o.s. spending bill .




Yes Dump's impression of working hard, signing his name in big letters and tweeting

and you are still engaged in these wars and what about Africa? Somalia isn't in Africa ? News to me .

Somalia isn't in Africa ? News to me .

Actually I was referring to West Africa, but yes that hole is in Africa. Your government and my government have people running around Africa, whether this is of benefit is unclear

We wouldn't be there without invitation or consent of the government, mostly helping with rebels and terrorists.

don't mind Clete . His nation is wrestling over the issue if they should take in South African refugees who are going to be expelled ala Rhodesia aka Zimbabwe style by the majority government .

rapper Cardi B chimes in on the tax policy of the country . She wants to know what the government is doing with her money .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcJhHo1cFgc

don't mind Clete . His nation is wrestling over the issue if they should take in South African refugees who are going to be expelled ala Rhodesia aka Zimbabwe style by the majority government .

Actually Tom we are not wrestling over whether to take in White South Africans, they would be more compatible than migrants from the middle east, personally I think we should issue an open invitation to white people displaced on the african continent. We certainly don't need any more trouble-making Somali's or Sudanese.

Tom you know as well as I do a majority government pursues policies favourable to their majority constituents

Mugabe starved his whole population with such policies .

Mugabe starved his whole population with such policies .

Yes well Africa has seen off two corrupt leaders recently and we could hope for better outcomes, but the day of the white man of Africa is over, the fact that they have been there for hundreds of years has not been respected

Actually Tom we are not wrestling over whether to take in White South Africans, they would be more compatible than migrants from the middle east, personally I think we should issue an open invitation to white people displaced on the african continent. We certainly don't need any more trouble-making Somali's or Sudanese.

Tom you know as well as I do a majority government pursues policies favourable to their majority constituents

No surprise you would assume displaced white people are great people and the darker skinned displaced people are NOT. Part of your obvious M.O.

No surprise you would assume displaced white people are great people and the darker skinned displaced people are NOT. Part of your obvious M.O.

Get a life Tal, there is more to this than skin colour, the white people in Africa are likely to be persecuted and dispossessed, in any case, they are likely to be Christian, it is time we closed the door on Muslim immigration, but these people will more easily integrate and are unlikely to live in ghettos

Well that certainly follows the conventional bigots thinking of if your white your right, but I doubt Jesus would condone it. Iss there a such thing as CINO: Christian in name only?

I have a great life thank you.

It is not bigoted thinking to recognise a problem and respond, we did the same when Iraqi Christians were being persecuted by ISIS. The UN wants us to take Muslims but all they do is form enclaves in our cities, Farmers will come here and farm, they will go to the regional centres and establish themselves

What is bigoted thinking is to take Muslim economic migrants before genuine refugees. You would think that in a country that has a serious immigrant problem you would understand or do you want the south african farmers for yourselves

You could be a Dufus sycophant with your notions of races other than your own. Fear is what guides our immigration policy driven by the ignorant, and I see you buy into that nonsense lock, stock, and barrel. Politicians scare you with BS and feed your worst fears and get your vote with the promise of defending your daughters and sons from the invasion of illegals, who just like you were oppressed in your own homelands and ran. That is the history of man and his migration patterns. Wars, poverty, persecution have always fueled such flights.

The real phenomena is after a few generations you forget why you ran, and how you took the land you now call YOURS, and ignore the things you do to keep it. My tick with you though Clete to be honest is you always resort to be willing help what you consider your own and suppress the rest. To ignore that ISIS murders more Muslims than Christians by far is the perfect example of your FEAR and HATRED filling your brain so much that it actually spews out in stupid words.

I can only hope one day you can see the similarities of humans and their conditions and act in accordance with the tenants of the "religion" you claim is so great. To be fair though you are hardly alone in your religious hypocrisy as we have even more true believers here who spew the same bigotry and hide behind their faith to justify their words, actions, and attitudes. How else can you justify making people illegal in the first place because you deem them not of your own image?

I have no doubt Jesus could walk into either of our countries, or any country on Earth, for that matter, right now, and be put in an immigration camp and be deported, and his truth deemed lunacy by you so called Christians. I think I have aptly explained How the Dufus became president, and hope you take note, at least stop sounding like him and his ilk.

I don't know what happens to posts around here, the censorship fairy has been busy. Again let me explain to you that my people have been here a long time, and they may have decided that there were greener pastures on the far side of the world, they were courageous people, willing to carve out something out of a wilderness, not someone who ran away

I'm sure Jesus would be busy doing what he has always done, which is reaching out to people. I don't think the truth of the Gospel is lunacy, but if you don't understand that he wanted his people to prosper and to join everyone through acceptance of his redemption. He said go into all the world, he did not say bring the world to you.

AS far as DUMP is concerned, I don't know why you would refer to him in the same breath as Christian, but some of his policies make sense. He doesn't want his country overrun with foreigners who are mostly a burden, he doesn't want foreign criminals in his country and he wants to undo some of the excesses he sees in certain policies. Now I have the same view of my own country, for you it is the hispanics, for us it is the Muslims, you have the better of it because at least the hispanics are likely to be christian, so I tell you what, we will swap you some hispanics for some muslims, I think 500,000 should make a dint in the problem for both of us, and we will see how you like it

Oh Clete the post was about the hypocrisy of those who don't practice what they preach, and separate who deserves what. The same goes for any religious claiming lunatic. They are all the same to me. I used Christian because you claimed to be one.



He said go into all the world, he did not say bring the world to you.

Oh Yeah? He also said this...


Matthew 25:35 (http://www.biblica.com/en-us/bible/online-bible/niv/matthew/25/) 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,Hebrews 13:1-2 (http://www.biblica.com/en-us/bible/online-bible/niv/hebrews/13/) 1Keep on loving one another as brothers and sisters. 2Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.Leviticus 19:33-34 (http://www.biblica.com/en-us/bible/online-bible/niv/leviticus/19/) 33"'When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. 34The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

Good luck with your redemption.

Oh Yeah? He also said this...


Matthew 25:35 (http://www.biblica.com/en-us/bible/online-bible/niv/matthew/25/) 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,Hebrews 13:1-2 (http://www.biblica.com/en-us/bible/online-bible/niv/hebrews/13/) 1Keep on loving one another as brothers and sisters. 2Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.Leviticus 19:33-34 (http://www.biblica.com/en-us/bible/online-bible/niv/leviticus/19/) 33"'When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. 34The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

Good luck with your redemption.
e

I don't have any doubts Tal, did I say we should mistreat anyone and we have certainly shown hospitality even to our own detriment.

Do you think Jesus was speaking of those who deny him, those who persecute his followers

OMGosh! Whose persecuting you Christians now, and explain how that justifies what YOU write and express, which I think are the best examples of prejudice, bigotry, hate, and FEAR of anyone posting here. Thank god you have no power to ENFORCE your beliefs, and hopefully your nation has a better way of doing things. You write and talk like a Dufus sycophant to me that spews hate and plays on fear to gain power and distract from his true intentions. Please don't use the ISIS example either, as we already can confirm they kill more of their Muslim brothers than Christians by far and the Romans stopped throwing you to the lions centuries ago.

You also don't get to paint your peeps as brave explorers either, since Euros have been trying to conquer and colonize every land mass they ever saw, with their religion and royalty, and NO I am not overlooking our own history of Euros and their antics and machinations and manifest destiny either which in the words of my friend smoothy, smacks of entitlement thinking and dismisses everyone else. Hmm, probably a reason you ran because you were on the short end of that stick.While our countries have cooperated and collaborated on many fronts YOU the individual hate us, and no doubt many do.

The world is full of haters Clete. You can never be alone.

Tal, I hate what you do in the world, your ruling class if you like, not you personally.

You know very well who is persecuting Christians, Muslims in Muslim countries, Hindus in certain parts of India, so I make no excuses regarding my thoughts on them.

As far as I'm concerned Dump typifies all that is bad in america, big ego, big mouth, big money, dumb as a rock