How many of them have had active shooter incidents ?


On MSNBC this weekend, Sheriff Paul Cairney of Argyle, Texas, described the process by which staff members can carry firearms in the school district. The Sheriff said that the staff at the school who choose to carry a firearm go through an intense round of interviews and training before they are allowed to carry on campus. The MSNBC host was flabbergasted at the practice and asked the Sheriff about concerns for the safety of the students in the school when there are firearms around.



The Sheriff said the practice is heavily restricted, but the “time to do nothing is over” when it comes to combating school shooters.


To become a school marshal, those employees must undergo extensive active shooter and firearms training with the state. They must also undergo a mental health evaluation.
They receive a school marshal designation by the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement and must renew their license every two years by undergoing the same training and evaluation.
Outside of campuses in Keene and Argyle, signs warn visitors that there are staff members who are armed and are prepared to protect children.


Texas Sheriff Explains: Teachers Carry Firear | The Daily Caller (http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/19/texas-sheriff-who-allows-teachers-to-carry-firearms-leaves-msnbcs-jaw-on-the-floor/)

Small towns have been known to do what they have to. It works for them and they have to depend on their own devices. Texas isn't the only state to allow teachers and school officials to carry firearms to class.

https://www.romper.com/p/what-states-allow-teachers-to-be-armed-its-a-controversial-proposal-19376



Twenty-one states allow individual schools and universities to decide for themselves if they will permit teachers to carry concealed weapons in the classroom. There are only 11 states in the country that have laws which prohibit carrying handguns on school or university property...
There are only 11 states in the country that have laws which prohibit carrying handguns on school or university property.

I am all for it. Something has to be done.

Did you read the text messages between the two brothers? The words they text to each other should never be necessary at their school.

Also what is wrong with one or two entrances into a school through a metal detector? You can have as many exits as you need per fire regulations. But only way in is through a metal detector. I am missing the complexity of solving this issue.

Oliver my first reaction to the Sandy Hook shooting was more cops around the schools, but I have come to realize that the community should be the ones to say what they want done, and how. As Tom points out many rural school here in Texas (And other states.) have had armed teachers, and administrators for a few years now, while in Chicago and big cities, they've had metal detectors for decades. So I guess for such a complex issue, I say listen to the locals. Sad the whole gun debate is about political agendas, and selling more guns, or banning all guns, but the solution is somewhere in between.

I can go for whatever works, and hope these bright ideas, and experiments don't get tested. What a world.

Tal I posted that school specifically because it details the training that the teachers have to go through to be permitted to carry in school. I am actually conflicted on this issue because teachers are for teaching . Israeli schools have armed guards outside school . But there are a couple things to consider. One is the chaos of an active shooting sight. The other one is a financial one ......liability .

Oliver I have been an advocate of restricted entrance points for a long time .....actually since the days of Joe Clark at Patterson High School in NJ . He put chains on the school doors to prevent drug dealers from gaining access .

I'm more into the conceal carry camp even in places that permit open carry (I can do both). If the bad guy spots you before you spot them.. they assume you are unarmed... open carry you might be marked as a threat by the bad guy before you even know they are there. Obviously there will be some teachers who would be so incompetent.. you don't want them to be armed, and why it should be voluntary, but the average teacher won't have that problem... and many of them might already own handguns, and be proficient in its use. Many probably already hold CC permits but can't carry at work now because of the law.

When I was in High School a lot of my teachers were bad hombre's you did not want to mess with (even some of the female teachers)....and I wasn't in the inner city or a bad area. Our entire grade was small enough you knew EVERYONE by name (was 180) But those were back when you actually got a good education before the free-fall compared to other countries..

Teachers weren't always wusses... I saw my late 60's gym teacher who was about 5'4" and probably 140 lbs wet ... take down one of the biggest kids in the school like nothing. Kid swung at the teacher after being confronted in the hall....bam bam two punchs the kid was out cold for the count, knocked out, saw it happen. Guy was one of the troops caught behind lines in Battle of the Bulge, he was also a boxing champ in his youth. second time was a teacher everyone referred to as lardass. He was maybe 5'8" and easily 300 lbs... and it was all around his waist and hips. Saw one of the other biggest kids in the school hit him so hard in the head it bounced off his shoulder. Right before he grabbed the kid around the throat and crotch lifted him over his head, and body slammed him into the concrete floor in a move that would have earned praise by professional wrestlers. Both these kids over 6 foot and damn good shape whom every kid feared getting on the wrong side of.

Those days are past, apparently long past listening to all the whining on facebook by supposed teachers....spines stopped being part of teachers physiques and character. At least the vocal ones.

I am just amazed that it's taking this long to protect our children. I agree with the kid that said we should have stopped this after Columbine. This doesn't make sense that we don't enact a solution. I live in Florida and everyone has a gun (but me). I don't have a problem with people owning guns. My partner has three or four of them. I do have a problem if we don't protect innocent people like school children or Pulse night goers. In Orlando where I live, every time there is a mass stupidity shooting, we relive that Pulse night all over again. I am sure Sandy Hook and other places are the same way. It just doesn't make sense.

Yes Oliver . You go into any other public building here in NY and you go through metal detectors at a minimum . Some of the NYC schools utilize them too. Schools should have at least the same priority as the court house .

There aren't enough metal detectors to protect everyone, a shooter can just wait across the street

yes they can ,but 'surprisingly 'they don't . There is no perfect solution because as you know ,evil exists and humans are imperfect .

Something in common was every one of these shooters was a known problem waiting to happen. Not the nice Class Valedictorian that Turned Carrie over a Latte someone at Starbucks got a teeny bit off.

This last case was a kid kicked out of school over violent behavior, there were in the ballpark of 37 times the police were called to his house about his behavior, no arrests... its clear he had antisocial tendencies... The FBI was SPECIFICALLY warned about him by name... not an ambiguous warning... nothing was done.

Then to top it off... it turns out there were FOUR armed Sheriff's Deputies stationed there working.. who sat outside waiting refusing to go in and doing nothing. Nothing was ever reported to the Feds by anyone that would turn up on a background check.

And you have idiots claiming it's the NRA's fault, anyone but the people who were actually there and who actually had involvement with this kid in any way shape or form, those people get a complete pass from them...I keep waiting for the same imbeciles to blame it on Bush.

Something in common was every one of these shooters was a known problem waiting to happen. Not the nice Class Valedictorian that Turned Carrie over a Latte someone at Starbucks got a teeny bit off.

This last case was a kid kicked out of school over violent behavior, there were in the ballpark of 37 times the police were called to his house about his behavior, no arrests... its clear he had antisocial tendencies... The FBI was SPECIFICALLY warned about him by name... not an ambiguous warning... nothing was done.

Then to top it off... it turns out there were FOUR armed Sheriff's Deputies stationed there working.. who sat outside waiting refusing to go in and doing nothing. Nothing was ever reported to the Feds by anyone that would turn up on a background check.

And you have idiots claiming it's the NRA's fault, anyone but the people who were actually there and who actually had involvement with this kid in any way shape or form, those people get a complete pass from them...I keep waiting for the same imbeciles to blame it on Bush.

Or Obama! The NRA blamed it on dems and the media at their CPAC rally. I totally agree though the system and the protocols failed miserably. WTF?

Exactly. Everything that needed done from a procedures and legal aspect are already there in place. And has been for a long while. If you have incompetent BOOBS working for the Police, FBI and every other related entity now.. you will still have the same boobs fumbling the ball no matter what you do.

First I see civil lawsuits in the future of those 4 deputies... Second - If that Sheriff is an elected position like it is a lot of places... I see him unemployed next election he faces. He might make it as a Mall cop... I seriously doubt any credible law enforcement agency would want him around.

Their might even be other Lawsuits over reasons that still haven't come out yet.

meanwhile so far this year in Chi-town ;there has been a total of 365 shootings resulting in 63 killed . Almost all of them were from illegally owned hand guns .

turns out there were 4 law officers who hid outside while the massacre occurred .

https://nypost.com/2018/02/23/four-sheriffs-deputies-hid-during-florida-school-shooting/

turns out there were 4 law officers who hid outside while the massacre occurred .
FOUR good guys with a gun vs. ONE deranged teenager. And who "won"?

they are not good guys ;they are cowards .The good guys were the teachers who put their bodies in between the shooter and the kids. The good guys was the JROTC student Peter Wang who before he was shot was holding the door so other students could flee. Other JROTC students shielded other students with Kevlar sheets normally used for marksmanship training .JROTC Alaina Petty and Martin Duque as well as Wang were awarded the JROTC metal for Heroism.

they are not good guys ;they are cowards .The good guys were the teachers who put their bodies in between the shooter and the kids. The good guys was the JROTC student Peter Wang who before he was shot was holding the door so other students could flee. Other JROTC students shielded other students with Kevlar sheets normally used for marksmanship training .JROTC Alaina Petty and Martin Duque as well as Wang were awarded the JROTC metal for Heroism.

And this demonstrates that training saves lives but how do you have cowards on a police force? It is no wonder people want guns to protect themselves, but it is an illusion

Clete.. its not an illusion... a LOT of gun owners stop criminals every day... the media is so pro criminal they almost NEVER report it. And Wondergirl... those 4 Deputies define what cowards are. 4 Trained law enforcement people who were NOT fresh out of the academy against one 19 year old snowflake punk... Police just like the Military are trained to work as teams... the punk wouldn't have stood a chance if they had done what they were paid to do. People might still have died, just not as many.

Someplace else there were people actually trying ot argue is wasn't the Deputies job to go after the shooter. Then why did they were Deputies uniforms and have Police issued gun if they weren't. You don't need armed law enforcement to play hall monitor for kids out of the classroom without a pass. And if it wasn't the job of the police.. then exactly who's job was it? It is anyplace else outside of that school.

Wondergirl... those 4 Deputies define what cowards are. 4 Trained law enforcement people who were NOT fresh out of the academy against one 19 year old snowflake punk... Police just like the Military are trained to work as teams... the punk wouldn't have stood a chance if they had done what they were paid to do. People might still have died, just not as many.
If FOUR POLICE VETERANS, well trained and armed, cannot stop a "snowflake punk," then what? Maybe if assault weapons (intended to kill enemies in WAR) weren't available and if all the trails to the "snowflake punk" hadn't been shut down by authorities....

If FOUR POLICE VETERANS, well trained and armed, cannot stop a "snowflake punk," then what? Maybe if assault weapons (intended to kill enemies in WAR) weren't available and if all the trails to the "snowflake punk" hadn't been shut down by authorities....

They were cowards... who should be embarrassed to wear the uniform, carry the badge... and call themselves men.

They were cowards... who should be embarrassed to wear the uniform, carry the badge... and call themselves men.
And you want ordinary teachers to pack heat???? In all the chaos, students running and screaming -- how many students will die in the crossfire? And then the police show up and decide to shoot which person with a gun? And then, the next morning the school bell rings. Back to normal.

As stated already I am leaning against the idea.However I posted this to demonstrate that there are already school districts where it is happening . Where is the examples of teachers firing wildly in the chaos. Maybe it is the deterrence alone that is doing the job. Maybe if a shooter sees this ,he moves on to softer targets .
https://c1.legalinsurrection.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Sign-Texas-High-School-Staff-Trained-To-Meet-Threats-With-Deadly-Force1-e1440897721395-620x424.png (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi82rXR48DZAhVr6oMKHfIrD8cQjRx6BAgAEAY&url=https%3A%2F%2Flegalinsurrection.com%2F2018%2F0 2%2Ftexas-school-sign-staff-armed-and-trained-to-protect-students-with-deadly-force-if-necessary%2F&psig=AOvVaw0tLz9y7aLv1sQGqj2zs8te&ust=1519638210321732)
maybe to places like this

http://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Gun-Free-School-Zone-sign-courtesy-.jpg (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiDxKb_48DZAhWJ6oMKHcPHA1YQjRx6BAgAEAY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thetruthaboutguns.com%2F2015% 2F02%2Frobert-farago%2Fencourage-gun-free-school-zones-well-the-signs-anyway%2F&psig=AOvVaw1aHGMbAvFIfCbpvyLU9Xab&ust=1519638310843895)

Thank God we haven't had any incidents in those schools that have taken those extra precautions of training and arming their teachers. A guy with an AR-15 though, out guns a few people with handguns by a lot, and no doubt the Florida shooter knew of the deputies with guns at a school he had attended. He also had the element of surprise on his side giving him the distinct tactical advantage, despite all the drills and precautions of the school. Not defending the 4 deputies at all, but this kid was well prepared, knew his targets and terrain, and had an escape plan that worked.

I think metal detectors, and cameras, costly as they may be to local budgets, are in order as well to at least mitigate that surprise and unknown because lets face it knowing where a shooter is in real time is half the battle.

This fellow has been on the radar since he was 9 years old and nothing was done. That is what lead to this chain of events that has exposed the inadequacy of a system that has broken our false sense of security. The problem is inaction, a failure to properly address the FIRST red flag, and ignoring the rest that have been waving for a long time.

That seems to be a recurring theme with most of these shooters, they have a plan they execute perfectly, and the plan to prevent them from creating mayhem, death, and injury has plenty of holes in it. Let's start with the notion of how to stop a bad guy with a gun, and dismiss the ludicrous solution of good guys with guns. I feel the best way to stop a bad guy with a gun, is DON'T give him a gun.

That would require some EXTREME VETTING wouldn't it?

And you want ordinary teachers to pack heat???? In all the chaos, students running and screaming -- how many students will die in the crossfire? And then the police show up and decide to shoot which person with a gun? And then, the next morning the school bell rings. Back to normal.

Why not.. a lot of teachers already own guns and know how to use them, some of them depending on how much the state respects the constitution, already have CC permits and probably already do carry outside of work.

Nobody is going to force the peaceniks into defending themselves or their kids... but they need to get out of the way of those who are willing to defend themselves and their kids.

Its already abundently clear... the loser snowflakes aren't to going to stop and think, well this one isn't armed so I'll let them live... they shoot them anyway.

At least they are sitting there waiting to be shot and leaving the kids open as well. At least they have a fighting chance. That's a LOT more than they have now. Particularly in cases like that when you pay cowards to pretend to play cop, then when the chips are down... they hide and save their own skins. Just a COUPLE teachers with a CC in that case would have saved a lot of lives.

I find it hard to believe that even MOST teachers today was spineless cowards afraid to defend themselves OR their kids.

When I was in school 80-90% is not more, of my teachers were fully capable of putting up a very respectable fight (including the women).. and would not have run. And I did NOT grow up in the inner city.

And I did see see two of them take down MUCH bigger kids, and heard of other cases that I wasn't there to see myself.

Thank God we haven't had any incidents in those schools that have taken those extra precautions of training and arming their teachers. A guy with an AR-15 though, out guns a few people with handguns by a lot, and no doubt the Florida shooter knew of the deputies with guns at a school he had attended. He also had the element of surprise on his side giving him the distinct tactical advantage, despite all the drills and precautions of the school. Not defending the 4 deputies at all, but this kid was well prepared, knew his targets and terrain, and had an escape plan that worked.

I think metal detectors, and cameras, costly as they may be to local budgets, are in order as well to at least mitigate that surprise and unknown because lets face it knowing where a shooter is in real time is half the battle.

This fellow has been on the radar since he was 9 years old and nothing was done. That is what lead to this chain of events that has exposed the inadequacy of a system that has broken our false sense of security. The problem is inaction, a failure to properly address the FIRST red flag, and ignoring the rest that have been waving for a long time.

That seems to be a recurring theme with most of these shooters, they have a plan they execute perfectly, and the plan to prevent them from creating mayhem, death, and injury has plenty of holes in it. Let's start with the notion of how to stop a bad guy with a gun, and dismiss the ludicrous solution of good guys with guns. I feel the best way to stop a bad guy with a gun, is DON'T give him a gun.

That would require some EXTREME VETTING wouldn't it?

Metal Detectors are good... prevention is good. Being outgunned? I don't buy that so much because we aren't talking wide open space. And inside a school you aren't talking ANY long distance shots where the rifle has an advantage... in this sort of situation a pistol holds an advantage. You aren't talking about a TEAM of criminals, you are talking only one... and they don't have eyes in the back of their head.

The amount of training to be proficient with using a handgun isn't that significant. You can teach a fairly young teen to do it, we aren't talking training in Urban guerrilla warfare squad tactics. We are talking knowing how to shoot and hit a target at most 30 feet away. And know how to clean and maintain your weapon of choice.

Plus its voluntary, and those who are unwilling to defend themselves don't have to. But they should get out of the way of those who are.

any other pie in the sky thoughts ?

I gave the stats in Chi-town and similar stats can be found in other cities like Baltimore .This year so far 30 shooting deaths. 2017 ...342 total . Almost all of them done by shooters who did not legally purchase the gun ;mostly handguns ;not ARs . In fact ARs account for about 2 % of gun deaths and less than 1% of gun injuries .

When it comes down to it you cannot avoid the issue that the problem is the gun, there are just too many and as a result, you have these incidents. When there was a ban on assault weapons the number of these incidents declined, when the ban was lifted the incidence rose again. The statistics don't lie. The overall problem of gun deaths is a different problem. In an urban environment there is no reason to posses a long rifle so if people need these weapons for self defence, is this what they are used for?

The problem is it's too easy to get a hand gun, or any weapon legally as in this case, from systematic failures, and ILLEGALLY, a bigger problem. You can ban anything in a big city, but criminals just move outside the city limits, and get whatever they want.

Why are there so many illegal guns in Chicago? Easy answer just look at a map. 20 bucks gets you gas money and a motivation to drive a few miles in ANY direction, and buy me a gun for my illegal activities. Straw man purchases are common EVERYWHERE where laws are lax, and guns available. As I have said before Florida is NOTORIOUS for easy to get guns. Always has been and most New York criminals know that too. Background checks don't catch straw purchasers. Gun shows are also a BIG problem and Florida (And my home Texas) are BIG on their gun shows. It's big money.

I agree again Smoothy, those 4(?) deputies could have done much more than wait outside, to take away his tactical advantage his rifle gives him, but again until they find the sucker they have no such advantage and the fact remains he did his damage and dropped everything that identified him as a shooter and ran out with a crowd. That obviously was HIS plan.

Not only would those good guys with guns have to act quickly, but be on the spot, and that's the real unknown here. Even you have to admit this nut job was smart enough to know how to use the flaws and loopholes to his advantage and didn't stick around hunkered down to be confronted. This dude got the drop on EVERYBODY! And all bad guys have the advantage of knowing the set up, and NOT worried about obeying the rules or being afraid of a retired old ex-cop.

So why are we having problems with these mass shooters and other nations do not?

good luck trying to ban rifles and restricting the sale of guns nationwide . If you made ALL guns illegal the bad guys would still get them as easily as pot smokers get pot . It will be as easy as keeping illegal aliens out of the country . Focus of school safety . Focus on getting community policing back on the streets . (one thing Bubba got right)

Good luck trying to ban rifles and restricting the sale of guns nationwide .

Just ASSAULT rifles, and they have been banned before. I know lots of opposition to that for now, as well as common sense restrictions nationwide. I think I would rather deal with the fallout rather than the fatalities though to be quite honest. LOL, there is hell to pay either way!

If you made ALL guns illegal the bad guys would still get them as easily as pot smokers get pot . It will be as easy as keeping illegal aliens out of the country .

I will leave illegal aliens out for the moment as that's another issue, but if you remember I am a second amendments rights advocate and don't want ALL guns to be illegal but I guess my common sense gun control position hides that fact. Why do we forget the WELL REGULATED MILITIA part of our constitution.

Focus of school safety . Focus on getting community policing back on the streets . (one thing Bubba got right)

Sounds like a GREAT plan to me, count me in! I would just change school safety to PUBLIC safety, which of course would include schools, as well as churches, movie houses, and restaurants, parks, and malls. EVERYWHERE people and families conjugate.

Drive-by shootings are especially dangerous, and annoying. Yeah I am from the Chicagoland area originally!

Im going to throw my 2 cents worth out there and Im going to say I dont want any school teacher nor administrator carrying a deadly weapon on school grounds period.

I think there are alternatives that can do virtually the same thing without resorting to projectiles that can go through walls and hit the unintended. I think that a system of semiautomatic shotguns loaded with bean bag shells and placed in classrooms and in lounges and teacher only accessed areas would solve the probem. It gives teachers a defensive weapon and can stop a shooter in his / her tracks without haveing to worry about a bullet going astray. I want to see our children protected but I also realize that in active situations and with tight quarters you never know. So something like a bean bag load may knock a child out they have a much higher survival rate. Also we have many cases of suicide by cop. I dont want our schools to become a breeding ground for any such actions.

Here are some links if you dont know what Im talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j5x7MTFAEQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeRKm9ZsqtU

Non lethal ammo, I like the idea, but this is what we are up against.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qFSzuUm9-Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw2IV2XLFnQ

Carnage is a good word for what loony shooters do when they hunt humans.

Why do we forget the WELL REGULATED MILITIA part of our constitution.

You know Tal all of that phrase is forgotten and the focus is on the word abridged. I believe statements should be taken as a whole to gauge intent not picked apart, so this means that the expectation is that there be regulation, there be discipline and that action with guns is not individual but with combined purpose against a common enemy

And for protection against bears and gators and Bigfoot.

'The militia is the whole of the people.' [George Mason Founder who wrote the 2nd Amendment]
Mason combined, a portion of the Massachusetts’ Declaration of Rights stating that the people have a right “to keep and to bear arms” with Article 13 from Virginia’s Declaration of Rights concerning a well-regulated militia as the defense against a standing army. The idea that the militia is some government run organization that serves the government is preposterous .

But since you are parsing language what does
“shall not be infringed” mean ?



Just ASSAULT rifles, and they have been banned before




A law that cannot be shown to work, and which is only enforced on the law-abiding is an egregious infringement of freedom. What is an assault rifle ? Semi-automatic ? Most hunters prefer semi-automatic rifles like Remington R-15 or.750 Woodsmaster .The difference is that they look like hunter's guns, Do you want to ban them or only the semi-automatics that look like military rifles ?

The government IS the people, or should be, and the notion of bearing arms against OUR army is what's absurd, even though I have seen cops, and government regulated militias do some lowdown stuff, and screw things up in lousy fashion. We both have, but if we are to survive as a free nation, we cannot just interpret the rules in different ways to fit peoples fears or prejudices. Not when we have the right to change the law, and a process to accommodate the changes in a LAWFUL orderly way. That does not include small groups declaring themselves a militia, and being outside, or above that law. Indeed they are as subject to the laws as anyone, and should be treated as such when they break it. That's what due process is about. We argue in court, not in the backwoods, or behind barricades. That's the law too!

That's what abridged means you have the right to bear arms WITHIN the LAW. Not outside of it, or above it, or beside it. Anyone with a problem with it should take it to court. If you want to be a militia then abide by the rules! Bad things happen when you do not! That's the law.

The problem is it's too easy to get a hand gun, or any weapon legally as in this case, from systematic failures, and ILLEGALLY, a bigger problem. You can ban anything in a big city, but criminals just move outside the city limits, and get whatever they want.

Why are there so many illegal guns in Chicago? Easy answer just look at a map. 20 bucks gets you gas money and a motivation to drive a few miles in ANY direction, and buy me a gun for my illegal activities. Straw man purchases are common EVERYWHERE where laws are lax, and guns available. As I have said before Florida is NOTORIOUS for easy to get guns. Always has been and most New York criminals know that too. Background checks don't catch straw purchasers. Gun shows are also a BIG problem and Florida (And my home Texas) are BIG on their gun shows. It's big money.

I agree again Smoothy, those 4(?) deputies could have done much more than wait outside, to take away his tactical advantage his rifle gives him, but again until they find the sucker they have no such advantage and the fact remains he did his damage and dropped everything that identified him as a shooter and ran out with a crowd. That obviously was HIS plan.

Not only would those good guys with guns have to act quickly, but be on the spot, and that's the real unknown here. Even you have to admit this nut job was smart enough to know how to use the flaws and loopholes to his advantage and didn't stick around hunkered down to be confronted. This dude got the drop on EVERYBODY! And all bad guys have the advantage of knowing the set up, and NOT worried about obeying the rules or being afraid of a retired old ex-cop.

So why are we having problems with these mass shooters and other nations do not?

Because mentally disturbed Tide pod eaters are raised without discipline or much of an education (less than 1% would pass a college entrance exam outside the USA), and expect participation trophies for anything they attempt. Other places don't allow kids to grow up like that. They expect work, respect and accountability. Something the snowflake generation never learned having grown up being told they are special and entitled to everything while doing nothing in return.

it is infringed not abridged . INFRINGE as in ,act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on. 'Shall not infringe' means shall not act so as to limit or undermine .


translation .....the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be limited or undermined .

So it's legal to buy a tank, bazooka, or a heat seeking shoulder launched missile?

legal is what the government says is legal until the law is challenged . Constitutional ? Yes . Legal ? Well actually yes it is legal to own a tank; and they do not have to be demilitarized. While the military will sell surplus tanks in a demilitarized condition, there is nothing that prevents a civilian owner from having a fully functional tank ;as long as the civilian possesses the appropriate federal firearms licenses. If the civilian owner does not have the correct licenses, then any the tank has to be rendered incapable of firing.But the civilian can still own it .

Rocket launchers are trickier . missiles are classified as ammo or as ATF calls them "destructive devices " . .Bazookas without ammo is just a fancy aluminum tube .Grenades are also "destructive devices " .However it is legal to own them so long as they are military grade and not home made . Operable frag grenades require a $200 tax for each one ,and it has to be stored in a safe place. MANPADS are illegal to own.

So in other words guns, ammo, weapons, and the such can be licensed and regulated... and taxed?

regulating is part of the 2nd amendment . What I was disputing was the contention that the militia is some government run organization ie. the National Guard . That is not what they meant by regulated militia .

You haven't seen me object to licensing taxing and other things like back round checks .

You will never get the people to agree to bans on rifles so why don't you take that off the table and work on solutions that are doable instead of insulting those who don't agree with you as being oppose to "common sense " solutions . The weakness here was that EXISTING regulations about ownership were not enforced .

I will stick with my ban position, agree or not. We can compromise meet in the middle whatever, as under our system of laws that's the process. It would seem an upgrade in technology to facilitate a NATIONAL gun registry for law enforcement on all levels would be a step I could agree on. As well as closing regulatory loopholes such as enjoyed by gun shows, and private citizens in many states. Both would go a long way into more accurate up to date background checks. A longer wait period for new gun sales until those areas are sufficiently tightened up and improved is reasonable it seems. That would be where I start, as well as adding more law enforcement officers on multiple levels and agencies, including tech savvy individuals, and making metal detectors mandatory until some genius buys a 3D for making plastic guns, which they do already. In which case we will all need airport type high resolution X-ray screening at entrance points eventually.

That sounds more reasonable than the fringe left and right who won't budge at all from their positions, doesn't it?

Tal it doesnt sound reasonable to me because your looking at the wrong end of things from where I see it. Why not first start with hippa. You remember that law that says you cant mention the condition of others to anyone. Well that is a breeding loophole that acts like a huge wound when it comes to releasing medical records for the mentally ill. If the government is unaware of a situation they can not be forced to act on it. Shining a light into that dark world would be a start.

I dont see any reasonable persons trying to eliminate the background checks that are normal for the place where you live. If you attatch it to all sales and transfers then you arleast have some checks in place to stay on top of things. A national registry is how many governments started befor they closed in on the people. Think about it every citizen must submit should a declaration of marshal law come about. The first thing they would do is show up at your door because your on the list.

We had things in place for this very situation and it failed us. It is time to have a new stratagy and try some things that might actually work. Thos non lethal means for stopping a person when they are being shot at from all directions can and will stop an attacker in his / her tracks. Also the videos you had shown were all hollow points and not fmj so the damage is more horrific and that is why they are outlawed in battle.

It is my wish that we as a society would be getting better at living together rather than getting worse. Guns or no guns, we are getting worse. Sadly when one of these crimes happens, it fuels others to copycat. But guns or no guns our premise must be to protect our schools, our children, and innocent people that are targeted. It's unsettling to me that I have to teach my kids now to know where the exits are. If my partner and I are at a bar, it's a bar where our backs are not to the door. I watch everyone now just because of the world that we have made. It's sad really. But as for schools, I still don't comprehend the complexity of fixing this problem. I get that we can't fix all soft targets but these are our schools and our kids.

Tal it doesn't sound reasonable to me because your looking at the wrong end of things from where I see it. Why not first start with hippa. You remember that law that says you cant mention the condition of others to anyone. Well that is a breeding loophole that acts like a huge wound when it comes to releasing medical records for the mentally ill. If the government is unaware of a situation they can not be forced to act on it. Shining a light into that dark world would be a start.

How CD, would you go about shedding that light? They struck down the idea years ago that a physician could ask if a patient had a gun, or even report him if a physician deemed him at risk. So tell me your thoughts as to how to get the lights on.

I don't see any reasonable persons trying to eliminate the background checks that are normal for the place where you live. If you attach it to all sales and transfers then you arleast have some checks in place to stay on top of things. A national registry is how many governments started before they closed in on the people. Think about it every citizen must submit should a declaration of marshal law come about. The first thing they would do is show up at your door because your on the list.

Well that's a problem. On one hand you are for background checks but on the other you want it kept private, or just in your state. If you're that afraid of your own government going rogue on you then we have a bigger problem than just gun safety. I guess everybody is scared of something but are you more afraid of the government knocking at your door for your guns, or criminals moving from state to state to avoid a true background check. Or could it be that you know nothing of that, being the upstanding citizen you are. Are you suggesting a felon or loon who can't buy a gun in his state ca come to your state with a clean record and buy a gun?

We had things in place for this very situation and it failed us. It is time to have a new stratagy and try some things that might actually work. Thos non lethal means for stopping a person when they are being shot at from all directions can and will stop an attacker in his / her tracks. Also the videos you had shown were all hollow points and not fmj so the damage is more horrific and that is why they are outlawed in battle.

All due respect CD, bean bags and rubber bullets are a good idea if a target stands there to get shot, but a moving target is much harder, and add some chaos and confusion and a bunch of frantic people you have a high stress situation, and maybe you don't get close enough for a good shot at a perp spewing lead at 13-15 RPS. Good for some situations but not others. As to the ammo, only 11 states ban the sale, and possession of hollow points and you can get them online and shoot pig heads all you want.

Yes the system failed, but don't you think better, faster, more efficient communications would bring about a better outcome?

Not when your purpose is to rig the system to get results you want . This is how Broward County responded to an initiative by them AG Holder and the emperor .
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/966854507744374784.html

Tal it doesn't sound reasonable to me because your looking at the wrong end of things from where I see it. Why not first start with hippa. You remember that law that says you cant mention the condition of others to anyone. Well that is a breeding loophole that acts like a huge wound when it comes to releasing medical records for the mentally ill. If the government is unaware of a situation they can not be forced to act on it. Shining a light into that dark world would be a start.

How CD, would you go about shedding that light? They struck down the idea years ago that a physician could ask if a patient had a gun, or even report him if a physician deemed him at risk. So tell me your thoughts as to how to get the lights on.
Mental health professionals (and I'm guessing medical professionals) are required to report a client or patient whom they deem is a danger to himself or others.

Tal, in th state where I live the back ground checks are not kept on file or atleast they are not suppose to be. That check varies from state to state. Example in California there is a minimum 3 day waiting period. It is considered a cooling off period. Im only giving a few examples of how the checks vary. For that I consider it a States rights issue rather then a governmental one. As it is now there can be private transfers so long as they are done in good faith. But it would be reasonable to have all transfers run through "your" states back ground checks system.

With mental health I prefer to rely on professionals. Let them make decisions that would require a person to have restricted access to firearms. Simaler to the no fly list. Also persons with mentally stable conditions that had previous infractions should have an avenue for getting checked out to see if they can once again be cleared to own a firearm. Some conditions of mental ilness are well controlled with medication while there are others that will never qualify. We need to lift the cover and examine it on a case by case basis.

Yes Oliver if we could all play nice it would be so much easier. Unfortunatly we seem to be more issue driven these days then melting pot. Maybe some day things will quiet down but as of today we all must deal the hand we are dealt.

How apt CD, since we have been dealt a joker named Trump.

Who needs congress?

Walmart will no longer sell firearms, ammunition to people younger than 21 - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/US/walmart-longer-sell-firearms-ammunition-people-younger-21/story?id=53427141)

's Sporting Goods CEO on decision to no longer sell assault-style rifles: 'We don’t want to be a part of this story' - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/News/dicks-sporting-goods-ceo-company-longer-sell-assault/story?id=53403284)

My position remains that a business can decided to sell or not sell whatever legal merchandise or services it want to ,and to whoever they want to . IF this was about a homosexual wedding cake this move would not be applauded .It would be the subject of a law suit instead .That discrimination thingy .

D*cks ..... well that's good pr . But they moved ARs off their racks a long time ago(since Sandy Hook).They've been selling them
at their "Field and Stream" stores. No serious gun owner purchases guns at D*cks so this is pretty much a meaningless gesture on their part .


Stephen Paddock was around 65 years old and he killed 58 people .So age doesn't really seem to be a factor . Should 21 be the minimum age for military service too ? How about voting ? Let's increase the voting age to 21 and require photo ids. Seems that is the new standard for exercising constitutional rights .

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXKfkABXkAERMUN.jpg

This is funny . The libs will praise Walmart for a week until they go back to bashing them as greedy corporatists .

You make some great points Tom, and yeah it's about PR, clearly aimed at younger shoppers, but a lot of companies are moving away from the NRA positions.

US companies distance themselves from NRA as pressure mounts - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/us-companies-distance-nra-pressure-mounts-53312225)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/msn/companies-scramble-to-distance-themselves-from-nra/ar-BBJwOTu

While conservatives want to fight back

New York, Virginia, Ohio, Alabama court Delta Air Lines following Georgia lawmaker's tax cut threat - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/york-virginia-ohio-alabama-court-delta-air-lines/story?id=53407237)

And buried by those headlines we have Hope Hicks quits after her "white lies for Trump testimony", and Kushner's clearance woes, AND his half a billion dollar loans from a few banks AFTER Trump won, (Infrastructure meetings according to him) and he still needs MO" MONEY. I know you saw the Dufus talking about taking guns from loonies before they had their due process.

You make some great points Tom, and yeah it's about PR, clearly aimed at younger shoppers, but a lot of companies are moving away from the NRA positions.

And buried by those headlines we have Hope Hicks quits after her "white lies for Trump testimony", and Kushner's clearance woes, AND his half a billion dollar loans from a few banks AFTER Trump won, (Infrastructure meetings according to him) and he still needs MO" MONEY. I know you saw the Dufus talking about taking guns from loonies before they had their due process.

Dump talks and walks at the same time, talk is cheap and B/S cheaper and freely available. He can only do what Congress allows unless he is going to make some unlawful regulations. Once again Tom has pointed out the error of generalisation and popularism. He takes away the rights of the under 21, that doesn't loose many votes, he takes away the bump stocks, that doesn't cost many votes, he enforces the current laws, that doesn't take away many votes........................................incre dible a sitting President actually enforcing the law

Soundbites and TV appearances don't make policy, or enforce the law. Congress makes laws, and they haven't.

They have to keep throwing the blame on the NRA because it really belongs to Obama. His policies created the situation in Florida that allowed the shooter to buy firearms in the first place.

Note the date:

https://nypost.com/2015/03/14/politicians-are-making-schools-less-safe-and-ruining-education-for-everyone/

So Donald kicked two own goals in week, take him off

He has too many sycophants, enablers, and loonies around him.

Locals make and enforce LOCAL laws, CD. I cannot help but notice your anecdotal approach to find blame lacks the many other successful programs communities have enacted to deal with at risk youths. Even the Florida shooter is a product of LOCAL failures of lawmakers and law enforcement and needs correcting on that level. Not letting the feds off the hook for their failures but it's pretty obvious if you have kids in terror, somebody is NOT addressing the real issues there very effectively.

Look it up for yourself as there are facts and data that far out weight the simple anecdotes and opinions of those who choose not to fairly judge the outcomes beyond the fear of headlines and opinions. You choose to only highlight the bad CD, WHY?

https://youth.gov/youth-topics/preventing-youth-violence/forum-communities/chicago/brief

http://www.asnchicago.org/programs

It's not Obama dismantling the consent decree program.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/14/politics/kfile-sessions-consent-decrees/index.html

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2017/01/30/why-jeff-sessions-should-police-the-police

So excuse me if I balk at your premise and facts. Not saying there aren't incidences, or continuing issues to deal with, but lets not get carried away and lower ourselves to hyperbole and broad blame. That's the easy way out.

The celebrities in Hollywood would like everyone to know they are boycotting guns and find them and those who possess them reprehensible.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXed4Z5XUAIVq51.jpg

Looks like a police state to me

Looks like a well regulated militia to me doing a security job at a big event. Has nothing to do with the position many take to ban military style assault rifles from the general public.

Those are police or National Guard hired by the state . In no way do they fit the definition of a militia . They are law enforcement instruments of the state .

How many Hollywierdos will admit that they all have armed guards in their entourage ? 1st class hypocrites the whole lot of them .

Exactly what is your definition of a well regulated militia? How many celebs run around with guards that have AR-15's?

And what does that have to do with people being the victims of homicidal maniacs and the guns they get so easily? People are tired of sympathy, and doing NOTHING about it. You guys run government, so stop slow stalling until the next disaster. How many do you need to figure it out?

Exactly what is your definition of a well regulated militia?


Militia

[mɪˈlɪʃə]




NOUN



a military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency.






a military force that engages in rebel or terrorist activities in opposition to a regular army.

Both of these can be well regulated if they are well organised and led. A rabble with guns is not a well regulated militia

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28783627_1796813080356920_7489596122398125657_n.jp g?oh=51a9386ed09ca5f6e8901c06aa7a58df&oe=5B0A774D

The NRA is suing the state of Florida for raising the age to buy a gun from 18 to 21! Goes to show what their motivation is and it's not about safety for kids or anybody else, but their profits. What do you expect from an industry that makes it's money from the unbridled right of the second amendment.

Did not know a constitutional right had age limits .Do 18 year old Americans in Afghanistan use guns and other weapons ? Now when they go home they are not permitted to purchase them ? It's a bs law . I already pointed out that the vast majority of the mass shooters were over 21 when they did their dirty deed .

Did not know a constitutional right had age limits .Do 18 year old Americans in Afghanistan use guns and other weapons ? Now when they go home they are not permitted to purchase them ? It's a bs law . I already pointed out that the vast majority of the mass shooters were over 21 when they did their dirty deed .

I would say, Tom, that reform has to start somewhere, so if a kid can't shoot up a school, or themselves, it might be a start, maybe by the time they are 21 a gun will seem less attractive

Did not know a constitutional right had age limits .Do 18 year old Americans in Afghanistan use guns and other weapons ? Now when they go home they are not permitted to purchase them ? It's a bs law . I already pointed out that the vast majority of the mass shooters were over 21 when they did their dirty deed .

So lets do away with the age limits for when and how you can practice your rights and arm school kids to protect themselves against homicidal loonies. That should go over real good in a school that 15 year olds have their own gun. We have a right to vote too, Tom, should that also have NO AGE limit? Trump wouldn't have a chance against Beyoncé for real. Age limits for many things are arbitrary lines they can draw anywhere, just as how far you can practice your rights, notably you cannot shout fire in a crowded theater. Same thing, a restriction should exists for the right to bear arms, just as there is for your right to free speech. Buying a AR-15 should be restricted to the army, those qualified in the military, or the most responsible and stable of citizens.

The guy who took hostages in California, killing 3 and himself the other day, was a vet with 7 registered guns, and being treated for a mental disorder. He sure stopped 3 citizens from their right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We have a huge problem here Tom, with our RIGHTS, and stopping criminals and loonies from killing us at will. Maybe the problem is we assume everybody is a responsible law abiding citizen, and instead we should take our time and verify that as fact. Obviously 3 days isn't enough, and the system we use is grossly inadequate. That's bound to happen in a society with a weak central government, and 50 sovereign states that are acting like countries.

It is absolute nonsense that the problem lies in teens between 18-21 . That was just legislation to make the legislators and Governor Scott feel good pretending they did something .

or the most responsible and stable of citizens.
There is no such thing. Responsibility and stability can turn on a dime.

It is absolute nonsense that the problem lies in teens between 18-21 . That was just legislation to make the legislators and Governor Scott feel good pretending they did something .

This guy was 19 though, so would have been unable to buy a gun, and kill a bunch of people and may stop any future under more under 21 HOMICIDAL nut job from copying his example. Looks like they will have to come up with something else for older homicidal loonies though who can buy guns legally. Like the guy that killed 49 at that club, and wounded 53 more, or that nut job in Vegas. Interesting how the NRA's sales, and proclamations about armed good guys hasn't worked either except to increase profits, and go after anybody that doesn't parrot their position.

This guy was 19 though, so would have been unable to buy a gun, and kill a bunch of people and may stop any future under more under 21 HOMICIDAL nut job from copying his example. Looks like they will have to come up with something else for older homicidal loonies though who can buy guns legally. Like the guy that killed 49 at that club, and wounded 53 more, or that nut job in Vegas. Interesting how the NRA's sales, and proclamations about armed good guys hasn't worked either except to increase profits, and go after anybody that doesn't parrot their position.

Don't worry they have the opportunity to increase tax on guns and ammunition so that kids won't be able to afford guns and all those who want to pepper the environment with lead will pay more for the privilige

I note that no one was staging mass demonstrations when Republican Reps were shot up .

No the dems would be celebrating, but do republicans get shot up?

I note that no one was staging mass demonstrations when Republican Reps were shot up .

Repub didn't do anything after Gabby was shot up, or 26 kids and teachers, not even when they got shot up, so what do you expect?

Repub didn't do anything after Gabby was shot up, or 26 kids and teachers, not even when they got shot up, so what do you expect?

I don't expect anything since Washington is a place of inaction, but I hear texans are cooperating in the removal of illegals

I don't expect anything since Washington is a place of inaction, but I hear texans are cooperating in the removal of illegals

Washington is a tourist trap as real governance happens at the local level, and Texans have been dealing with migrants and immigrants since the 19th century Clete, nothing new on that front, but the locals don't need a big beautiful wall for that, nor are they giving up their land for one.

Washington is a tourist trap as real governance happens at the local level, and Texans have been dealing with migrants and immigrants since the 19th century Clete, nothing new on that front, but the locals don't need a big beautiful wall for that, nor are they giving up their land for one.

Well, just reconquer Mexico and you can put it south of the Rio Grande

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29425528_1813849931986568_2503693976238817280_n.jp g?oh=1ea4cd3f2b0b8ff6cf83a816c0831237&oe=5B469419

We need common sense package controls
1. Ban package delivery, not all packages, just the ones with bombs inside.
2. Make it illegal to mail or ship any package containing a bomb.
3. Make all delivery trucks bomb free zones
4. Make universal background checks necessary for everyone 21 years old or older who wants to ship bombs


Wait not good enough .... All packages need to be banned. If it saves just one life. Our founding fathers never intended this. Back in those days all packages were delivered personally or on a horse. They were addressed in quill and ink and sometimes took months to deliver. Now anyone can send a package overnight, anywhere in the world.Anyone can walk right in to Wal-Mart and get a package. People are using high capacity tape guns and fully automatic labelers. Only the military, and police should have this much power. Get rid of that bomb show loop hole .

Nice rant, but I blame the PEOPLE who have left the guns and bombs laying around for homicidal loonies, and criminals to get their hands on them. It's both careless and irresponsible, especially in light of the catastrophic tragic events we have witnessed.

You can make bombs with household chemicals and fertilizer and some electric wire . Bombs can be triggered with clocks or set off remotely with cell phones . Think of all the banning possibilities !!!

My point was getting the loonies and criminals. Kudos to law enforcement for getting the Austin Bomber.

My point was getting the loonies and criminals. Kudos to law enforcement for getting the Austin Bomber.

These fellows always make mistakes, but you can't find the loonies until they do something antisocial, and criminals, well there is one on every corner, just arrest anyone standing around. Dump wants to use the Deturte solution, execute the drug dealers, in a country like yours this would never get done, so a useless solution unless you go the way of abandoning due process as Deturte has done. Time for the Judge Dredd solution.

cue balls stuffed in the toe end of a socks are much more effective . Just ask the anarchists . Superintendent Says Students Are Armed with Rocks In Case of a School Shooting | WNEP.com (http://wnep.com/2018/03/22/superintendent-says-students-are-armed-with-rocks-in-case-of-a-school-shooting/)

cue balls stuffed in the toe end of a socks are much more effective . Just ask the anarchists . Superintendent Says Students Are Armed with Rocks In Case of a School Shooting | WNEP.com (http://wnep.com/2018/03/22/superintendent-says-students-are-armed-with-rocks-in-case-of-a-school-shooting/)

What is obvious is the younger generation has risen, they have told the useless only foggies in Congress to get off their arse or get out. Many are those who will vote for the first time and their fury will be noted

What is obvious is the younger generation has risen, they have told the useless only foggies in Congress to get off their arse or get out. Many are those who will vote for the first time and their fury will be noted

Chances are they will be voting for a few election cycles to come.

"Well I went to my congressman and he said quote
I’d like to help you son but you’re too young to vote"


FBI gets two credible reports of threats and does nothing.Local police get called to his home 39 times and do nothing.School board institutes anti-disciplinary policies that do nothing.
The PROMISE Program started by their emperor was a substantial portion of the reason this occurred.
Deputies are outside the door while the shooting is going down and do nothing.
Ask yourself, what additional law is needed to have had the FBI, the superintendent of schools ,Broward Sheriff's Office, and Sheriff Deputy Scot Peterson do their jobs? [/URL]



Here is the typical politician answer ......
Florida High School Requires Clear Backpacks Following Shooting
https://710wor.iheart.com/content/2018-03-22-florida-high-school-requires-clear-backpacks-following-shooting/?cmd=managed_social (https://twitter.com/hashtag/tcot?src=hash)

When this single issue becomes the deciding issue in any election I will take notice . I'll say they are wasting their time thinking that the answer will come from the Federal Government ;or that their views within their age group is monolithic . This issue is geezer driven ;and they were the ones really behind this 'Children's Crusade '.






Opposition to an assault weapon ban was strongest among Republicans and among self-identified registered voters 18-34, the poll found. Unlike older Americans, millennials were closely divided on their support for an assault weapon ban, with 49% supporting and 44% opposing a ban.There was huge support for a return to banning the sale of assault weapons from voters over 50, with 70% support from over-50s and 77% support from over-65s.
[URL]https://www.yahoo.com/news/americans-aged-18-34-most-100002280.html



If there was a Parkland School shooting every school day, then 70 school aged students would die in America every week. Right now, 77 of them die every week in texting and driving accidents.


Ban cell phones ! Raise the age of driving to 21 !


"We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgement of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song"

I think it's a very positive HEALTHY thing for students (And adults) to exercise their rights and express their feelings after such traumatic tragic events in such a positive way. Of course the rightwing 2nd amendment crowd can dismiss this experience, and wait for the dust to settle and keep doing what they have been, but people getting killed senselessly is and will continue to take it's toll on our psyches as a country.

When people get sick and tired, of being sick and tired, then change happens. I don't expect people who resist that change to just give up, they never have in the past with other issues, but change is inevitable as it always is, whether some like it or not, or the excuses they use NOT to change. The bottom line here is when we have an election who votes and why.

We have had assault style rifles banned before and it took years. I think we can have them banned again. Maybe not today, but we are moving closer to that time... AGAIN. So go ahead Tom, if you want something banned or changed get you and your peeps together and march in the streets, and VOTE!

This is how we make changes.

the 2nd amendment ensures their right to exercise their 1st amendment . Your so called assault rifle is a semi-automatic rifle like a hunter's rifle that is made to look like a military rifle . Are you going to ban hunter rifles too ? How about the hand gun that is the weapon of choice in the streets of the cities ? ?

It's a complex issue Tom, because there are many issues, but don't lump the ability of a homicidal lunatic in with a criminal activity. I see that as two different issues with different solutions both long and short term, but it blurs the whole debate when you cannot see that difference. No different than YOUR right to religion allows YOU to discriminate against other humans who also have rights.

We can go with FUNCTION though, and not just appearances, as I know of NO hunter that needs a 30 round clip that can fire them all in less than a second... DO YOU? If Chicago bans gun sales then where do all those guns come from? Lets deal with THAT. You're a New Yorker, where do your guns that criminals use come from?

Now you can ignore the cries and pleas of children and their parents who have experienced gun trauma, but I refer you back to the changes the MADD movement brought about. I can tell you this when people are marching in the streets and protesting, you better pay attention because they will vote. Often from their own experience.

Tom Im going to make a correction in what your saying just for the sake of clarity. The AR platform that you speak of is not made to look like a military rifle. It is a downgraded version of an actual military rifle. That is why it looks how it does. It is not fully automatic unless you have a permit for it and that takes an extended back ground check and a very hefty tax.

But it does perform essentially the same as a Smith &Weston M&P or any of the Bushmaster hunting ARs .

You can't avoid the issue, there is no reason for military grade weapons, or some downgraded equivalent, to be in the general population, but it is only the tip of the iceberg, because hand guns are used in more shootings

at least you are honest . You want all guns banned .

at least you are honest . You want all guns banned .

No Tom, military style weapons banned, as they were before, and stringent gun control and registration. This still leaves a broad range for gun ownership

banning them did not stop their use in crime

Okay Tom, what's your solution to gun violence and mass shootings? Given the system failed to stop the Parkland shooter, and you say that was a one off, what of the bigger problem?

banning them did not stop their use in crime

Many of them are used in suicides and family violence situations, there will undoubtedly still be a black market that criminals use and the only way to stop that is for manufacturers to be involved in the registration process so every weapon is registered and its path to owner is recorded.

Why is it that in so many mass shooting tragedies the intelligence agencies are always backhandedly connected to either the shooter or his family ? A motion filed by Omar(the Orlando 'Pulse 'club shooter ) Mateen's wife, seeking to dismiss the charges, reveal that the FBI just admitted that Omar's father, Seddique, worked with the FBI as an informant for 11 years (2005-16) & himself was under investigation for sending $$ to Afghanistan & Turkey.


Noor Salman's lawyers say FBI hid these key facts until now out of embarrassment: it was due to FBI's close relationship w/Mateen's father that they didn't arrest Mateen when they investigated him in 2013.


DOJ prosecutors got caught lying about a key point in the case in that the FBI knew that the statement they coerced Mateen's wife into signing was false. The case against Mateen's wife is falling apart and she'll likely walk even though she cased the club out and drove him to the club.

This is just one of many examples where existing laws failed to prevent tragedy .

Makes you want to move to Australia and raise kangaroos!

makes you wonder about the utility of new laws if the top law enforcement and intel agencies keep badly blowing it and getting it wrong .

makes you wonder about the utility of new laws if the top law enforcement and intel agencies keep badly blowing it and getting it wrong .

Do you think they are blowing it or deliberately flouting it to gain some advantage

Makes you want to move to Australia and raise kangaroos!

You could corner the market, Tal, but you would have to learn to build some big fences and be willing to spend your life mending them. I would be betting you know nothing about kangaroos

Forget the fences, Let 'em forage like they been doing. They've been doing great on their own, so what's to know?

this is why liberal justices should never be appointed to SCOTUS

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/retired-justice-urges-repeal-of-second-amendment/ar-BBKLKIO?ocid=sf

Forget the fences, Let 'em forage like they been doing. They've been doing great on their own, so what's to know?

They don't stay in one spot and unlike cattle they travel quickly, they can leap fences, they can be aggressive

' common sense ' knife control ?

The delivery of knives bought online to private addresses is to be banned under a package of measures to tackle knife crime to be announced by the home secretary, Amber Rudd (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/amber-rudd).Knives bought online will in future have to be collected in person, with retailers responsible for checking that all buyers are 18 or older. New powers are also proposed for the police to seize banned weapons such as zombie knives, knuckledusters and throwing stars if they are found in someone’s home, and to arrest those involved.


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/18/plans-to-make-delivery-of-knives-sold-online-to-private-addresses-illegal-knife-crime

Pry my zombie knife from my cold dead fingers.

' common sense ' knife control ?


Pry my zombie knife from my cold dead fingers.

Very likely

https://twitter.com/MayorofLondon/status/982906526334668800

I'll remember that on my next visit to London, I won't be able to open carry my machette

What's next banning ROCKS? The damned loonies are renting vehicles to run people over. More bang for the buck.

The mayor of Londonstan is indeed a loony .

They would solve the problem by banning Muslims, but that isn't likely any time soon