sorry can't defend......
1. signing a budget that increases spending more than the emperor ever dreamed of proposing .
2.the whole idea of assembling our military might and parading it down Pennsylvania Ave.
3. Not releasing the Schiff memo after releasing the Nunes memo .
What could possibly be in it that compromises national security ? It makes it look like he is covering up something ,
Republicans who have read it said there is no reason to not release it ..and I'm not talking about the John McCain's of the party . The House Intel Committee Republicans voted unanimously to release the Schiff memo . Let the sunshine of transparency in .It is the best disinfectant .

You may as well add to the list the 3 staffers who had to leave for domestic abuse that have been working on interim security clearances, after failing the FBI background checks that General Kelly and or McGahn the white house counsel knew about. Did Trump? What about son in law Kushner's security clearance that still hasn't been granted.

Yeah the pile of crap grows at the front door.

Dems have no business pointing fingers about supporting abusers . Everyone can yell about security clearances . Truth is that happens frequently . I recall a mini-controversy sometime in the emperor's reign where his agents in his security team had not obtained the proper clearance . On his last days on office ,the emperor went on a hiring frenzy seeding the government with Obots including some assigned to the White House to serve well after the emperor left . How many of them were properly vetted ? The whole idea of security clearance is an executive dept construct . The President can have anyone he chooses working for him . The issue can be taken up again in 2020.



In fact, the security clearance system itself is an expression of presidential authority. Its scope and operation are defined in an executive order (EO 12968 (http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/eo12968.htm)), and its terms can be modified by the President at will.And if the President wished to grant access to classified information to a family member, for example, there would be no legal barrier to doing so. See “Trump Will Have Wide Latitude to Let Family Into Government’s Secret Circles” (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/17/us/politics/jared-kushner-trump-family.html) by Mark Landler, New York Times, November 16.
https://fas.org/blogs/secrecy/2016/11/clearances-presidential/




“The president can authorize clearance for anyone he wants,” said Steven Aftergood, director of the project on government secrecy at the Federation of American Scientists. “It’s part of his commander-in-chief role. He has broad, essentially unlimited, access in this area.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/17/us/politics/jared-kushner-trump-family.html

A wise man once told me that the opposition party has every right, and a DUTY, to expose the ruling powers every flaw, action, and intentions. That was you during the Obama years, and now it's the dems who are the opposition party to the repubs control of government.

By your own words we have a duty to not just roll over, or give the Dufus a chance, but to blunt his power, and make him a one term president. While repubs failed in the latter, they have did an excellent job blunting Obama's and the dems agenda.

Don't think for a minute we won't do the same by whatever means we have, and you must admit The Dufus is good at giving us a lot of means to accomplish that goal. Expect more opposition, not less.

Rosenstein and Wray offered to work with Schiff to make his memo suitable for released. Do you think Pathfinder will take them up on their offer ? If not then it proves his critics correct that he loaded his memo up with stuff he knew would not get released so he could run with the narrative that herr Donald is running a cover up.

I have no doubt dems will have a memo soon suitable for public consumption.

goodby Tea Party we hardly knew ya. You took a Faustian bargain by backing herr Donald . Now there is not a peep from the elected officials voted in to show fiscal restraint . Instead of draining the swamp you have become swamp creatures . Do not be surprised if your constituents who are for limited government ,government restraint ,and fiscal conservatism sit this year's election out .

What are you worried about? It's a long held belief by repubs that tax cuts would pay for themselves, grow the economy, and create jobs. So by that logic, it's okay to put another few trillion on the credit card. After all we spent many trillions in foreign lands so we can spend it on this land now.

Can't you get with Trumpism? I thought you were a capitalists, Tom, so do the math and count the Trumpsters, and see how they out number the Tea Party. Now take your tax cuts, create a big enough economy to build Trumps wall and pay for his parade and be happy with his scandals. Good luck with those bridges, schools, and roads.

And don't forget to clap at the Trump rallies, and slobber all over him, because you could be tried for treason, and end up with a black eye and be deported!

Tax cuts do pay for themselves . But that is only half the recipe. If we can't control spending then we are screwed . And part of that is NOT creating new entitlements when we can't pay for the ones already in the unfunded liabilities category . Trumpism isn't capitalism . His plan is more of the same old cater to the rent seekers . He went to Washington to drain the swamp ,but after one year he thinks it's a pretty neat hot tub.

If they do Tom, then by your logic, The Dufus tax cuts didn't add a dime to the deficit, and if you haven't noticed their have been some deep cuts already to government agencies, and federal programs by this administration. You just haven't noticed them yet. You will though.

Breaking News

The FBI chief just testified at the Annual Intelligence Security Hearing before the senate, that the WH was first notified last March about security clearances issues and followed up 3 times with additional information after WH inquires. All of the Intel heads agreed, Russia interfered in the 2016 election, are still actively engaged in corrupting the election process, and will again interfere with the 2018 election.

Then we had this nugget last night

In meeting with Russia’s Putin, President Abbas calls for new peace mechanism (http://english.wafa.ps/page.aspx?id=9iQEyCa96480153363a9iQEyC)


MOSCOW, February 13, 2018 (WAFA) – President Mahmoud Abbas told his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin during their meeting in Moscow on Monday night that a new mechanism for peace making in the Middle East is now required and that the United States can no longer be the sole mediator in talks between Palestinians and Israelis.“We do not accept to have the US as the mediator between us and the Israelis,” said Abbas, accusing the US administration of taking several steps that showed its bias toward Israel and stand against the Palestinians.“If there will be efforts for negotiations, they may be done through an international conference where a mechanism will be found for the mediation and not only the US

nah only 3 agencies FBI ,NSA and , CIA and DNI Clapper made the claim ,and the analysts were "hand-picked" which makes this appear to be a report supporting a preconceived conclusion.....the rest of the intel agencies like the Coast Guard just signed onto the report . James Clapper confirmed this on Jan 6 when questioned by Senator Stuart Smalley . Look at the Dems suddenly putting faith in Intel agency assessments . That is too precious in the irony of it all.

What did the Russians do besides Facebook ads ?

Abbas is not an honest broker . There can be no real settlement when he doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist . If there is a settlement he loses all his power .

btw did you see the cute email Susan Rice sent to herself to cya the emperor ? She's going to go to jail carrying the emperor's water . Hope she thinks it was worth it . https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/2018-02-08%20CEG%20LG%20to%20Rice%20(Russia%20Investigatio n%20Email).pdf

Yes I did, and the concern was passing sensitive information on to Trump transition members specifically Flynn, who was under investigation. The concern was the Dufus would take steps to bury what the FBI and others had found, protect the prez and his sycophants, or worse reveal sensitive information to Pooty that could compromise sources, and assets.

Of course I can see where attempts to preserve evidence could be construed as a conspiracy, but given the extraordinary nature of the incoming administration it would seem extraordinary measures had to be taken.



What did the Russians do besides Facebook ads ?

They weren't ads Tom, they were ACCOUNTS targeted at spreading FAKE NEWS, and propaganda using a VERY sophisticated technique to hide their true identity and origins. It wasn't just Facebook either as all the social media avenues were/ARE being subjected to this cyber attack. It's not just the US either, as this is a GLOBAL operation involving many countries.



Abbas is not an honest broker . There can be no real settlement when he doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist . If there is a settlement he loses all his power .

Put the Palestinians OFFICIALLY in the Russian column with Iran and Syria and let me know how that looks on the map. Abbas will have more power, and a lot more OPTIONS.

Put the Palestinians OFFICIALLY in the Russian column with Iran and Syria and let me know how that looks on the map. It's already happened .The Russians were arming the ant-Israeli forces back in 1967 . Nothing new there . Abbas like Arafat before him plunders from the Palestinians and then blames the Jews .


They weren't ads Tom, they were ACCOUNTS targeted at spreading FAKE NEWS, and propaganda using a VERY sophisticated technique to hide their true identity and origins. Fake news like the stuff that comes out of America's legacy press ? What is VOA but America trying to influence the political outcome of different countries ?

Yes I did, and the concern was passing sensitive information on to Trump transition members specifically Flynn, who was under investigation. The concern was the Dufus would take steps to bury what the FBI and others had found, protect the prez and his sycophants, or worse reveal sensitive information to Pooty that could compromise sources, and assets. nonsense .According to press reports, Comey briefed Obama that day on the unverified Steele dossier. BTW ;Comey testified to Congress that Flynn had not lied .

Let me refresh your memory.

https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2017/02/flynn-resigns-timeline/516594/

Suuuuure Flynn didn't lie, he never told his boss about discussing sanctions with the Russian ambassador? Trump never told Pence? What would YOU call it?

BREAKING NEWS

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-prime-minister-benjamin-netanyahu-police-recommend-corruption-charges/


JERUSALEM --
Israeli police on Tuesday recommended that Benjamin Netanyahu (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/benjamin-netanyahu-suspected-bribery-fraud-israel-police/) be indicted in a pair of corruption cases, media reported, in an embarrassing blow to the embattled prime minister that is likely to fuel calls for him to step down.

it doesn't matter what he told Pence . He was nailed for allegedly lying to the FBI (even though he was not aware that they were asking questions related to an investigation). He only copped a plea because Mueller's strong arm tactics were costing him a fortune to defend :AND Mueller was threatening to go after his son in an unrelated matter .

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-...ption-charges/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-prime-minister-benjamin-netanyahu-police-recommend-corruption-charges/)

And Menendez gets off with scott free . Imagine that ! Just like the left ;if they can't beat ya at the ballot box they try to destroy you though the police state . Our SCOTUS decided this wasn't even a crime . Here is NY Il Duce Cuomo's gumbas are cashing in like crazy . You know and I know that this has everything to do with the so called peace plan and nothing to do with corruption.

it doesn't matter what he told Pence . He was nailed for allegedly lying to the FBI (even though he was not aware that they were asking questions related to an investigation). He only copped a plea because Mueller's strong arm tactics were costing him a fortune to defend :AND Mueller was threatening to go after his son in an unrelated matter .

It doesn't matter what he was aware, lying to the FBI is a crime all by itself. I feel ya about Menendez though, and you probably felt the same way I did after McDonnell beat the rap in Virginia.


I wonder what's up with these generals who get involved with Trump?

Byron York: Comey told Congress FBI agents didn't think Michael Flynn lied (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/byron-york-comey-told-congress-fbi-agents-didnt-think-michael-flynn-lied/article/2648896)

wonder what's up with these generals who get involved with Trump?

Not just with Trump . Most of the Generals have issues when it comes to dealing with situations non-military . Not all of them are George Marshall's .My pet theory is that they spend so much of their lives immersed in the military culture ...even when they are state side ,they lived lives in bases where the structure of life is different than outside . Thy often have difficulty with the transition. History is not on their side when it comes to being competent aides to the President .Think of the Generals who have crashed going back to Major General Harry H. Vaughan in the Truman days . Then you had Generals like Alexander Haig with his meltdown following Reagan's shooting ;or Adm. John Poindexter convicted of lying to Congress ;or even General Petraeus being forced to step down from CIA due to classified information passed on to his lover biographer . Truth is that society lifts these guys on a pedestal because they made it to the highest rung in the military and thus have earned out respect and admiration. But that also makes them vulnerable to a higher fall.

I wonder what's up with these generals who get involved with Trump?


Good question. In the military, loyalty is everything. One obeys his superiors without question. When ordered to "take that hill", the military man does not call a committee to discuss options, he takes the hill - do or die.

It works in reverse, the military man expects his orders to be obeyed by those under him - no exceptions. For some, this leads to a God complex.

When the general or admiral retires and is called to civilian governing, he is unused to the push and pull of politics. His job has changed, but not his mindset. Examples are Patton - "Nazis are like the Democrats and Republicans" - which cost him his job as military governor of Bavaria. On the other hand, George Marshall was an exceptional statesman.

The saddest example is Colin Powell, a good man who shilled for the Bush/Cheney war criminals.

Kelly is an unmitigated disaster. He's piling lie upon lie just like his master. Flynn was worse.

The saddest example is Colin Powell, a good man who shilled for the Bush/Cheney war criminals. I can't figure you guys out . I thought the latest thinking is that the consensus of the intel community was unassailable . Can't tell you how many times I've heard the meme about 17 intel agencies supporting the conclusion that the Russians stole the election. Back in 2003 not only did the American intel agencies believe that Iraq had wmd and an active wmd program ;but the consensus of the world intel agencies came to the same conclusion. Not only that, I can post multiple videos of Democrats loudly warning of the threat of Iraq wmd. Colin Powell went to the UN with the information that he was given by those same intel agencies that you now with certainty say are giving us the correct unimpeachable evidence of Russian collusion to steal the election .

Tom, fake news is not confined to the media, disinformation is stock in trade of intelligence agencies and yet suddenly they are to be believed because they have a tale that fits, in this case Trump could not win without outside help

I can't figure you guys out .

What's to figure out? The enemy of my enemy is my friend. It's as simple as that.



Tom, fake news is not confined to the media, disinformation is stock in trade of intelligence agencies and yet suddenly they are to be believed because they have a tale that fits, in this case Trump could not win without outside help

The Dufus is the FAKE NEWS, and that's how he won... with a little help from his friends.

What's to figure out? The enemy of my enemy is my friend. It's as simple as that.



Not good strategy, because it also resolves as the enemy of my friend is my enemy, but my nation has seen its friend sit on the side lines more than once while we have fought in many wars at the side of our friends.

There are your wars, and our wars. Need help just holler.

Russian bots flood Twitter after Florida shooting. Promotes pro-gun control message which Trump obediently follows.

Characterizing shooters as deranged lone wolves with potential terrorist connections is a popular strategy of pro-gun groups because of the implication that new gun laws could not have prevented their actions. On Thursday President Trump tweeted as much (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/964110212885106689): “So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior.”

Source: https://www.wired.com/story/pro-gun-russian-bots-flood-twitter-after-parkland-shooting/

Russian Bots ? lol really desperate for answers are ya ? I wonder if Russians bots have as much influence in this country as NBC affiliates.

You can dismiss Russian cyber intrusions on our social media and networks all you want at your own peril. That's The Dufus's real problem, he fails to acknowledge reality and therefore doesn't address it, despite what his own generals and intel chief tell him and congress. That's but one reason he is a DUFUS!

If he thinks he can go to Florida and sale his BS photo ops with a mouth full of platitudes, while the victims of this school massacre call for action, he will get his hat handed to him. Russian BOTS are REAL, and Vlad uses them to great affect.

Was it a Russian bot that floated the fake news that the shooter was involved with a Nazi group ? I guess this is the 21st version of McCarthyism . Look under your desk . There is a Russian spy there .

Russian Bots ? lol really desperate for answers are ya ? I wonder if Russians bots have as much influence in this country as NBC affiliates.

Apparently Trump is the only one who is unaware of Russian accounts/influence on the internet. Oh, and you.

Facebook itself identified nearly 500 false accounts interfering in the 2016 election by placing thousands of ads emanating from an agency in Russia tied to the Russian government. They testified to this before Congress. They continue their interference - why change a good thing?

Twitter has admitted it can do little about the thousands of Russian accounts it has discovered - unwilling is more like it. It promotes a "free and open platform". Read - we'd rather just rake in the money.

The Russians themselves scoff, saying there may be "creative entrepreneurs" but they're not connected to the government. Yeah, right.

Because of Trump, this mighty nation is not effectively waging cyber-warfare, even defensively, against the Russians. Gee, I wonder why? He's already been successfully blackmailed by Stormy Daniels. The Russians are playing the same tune. Open your eyes, tomder.

Was it a Russian bot that floated the fake news that the shooter was involved with a Nazi group ? I guess this is the 21st version of McCarthyism . Look under your desk . There is a Russian spy there .

No, tomder. That particular piece of fake news was provided by your compadres - the alt-right. The internet is filled with these lunatics who post the most outrageous untruths that sane people wonder who in the world could possibly believe them?

The true believers are the Trump core.

BREAKING NEWS

Mueller indicts 13 Russian nationals, and 3 foreign entities for conspiracy to meddle in US elections

MORE BREAKING NEWS

FBI had TWO specific tips on Florida school shooter.


Must be Friday!

BREAKING NEWS

Mueller indicts 13 Russian nationals, and 3 foreign entities for conspiracy to meddle in US elections

great job !!! after a year of investigation Mueller is going to take down bloggers ! I hope he doesn't think I'm a bot . I say bad things about Evita all the time . Better watch out ;he'll be targeting AMHD next .

"There is no allegation in this indictment that any American was a knowing participant in this illegal activity," Rosenstein said, adding there "there is no allegation in the indictment that the charged conduct altered the outcome of the 2016 election."http://variety.com/2018/politics/news/justice-department-indictments-of-russians-2016-election-probe-1202702272/


MORE BREAKING NEWS

FBI had TWO specific tips on Florida school shooter.

yep and yet they did nothing . like I always say . When seconds count the cops are minutes away .

Between Russia, and the loony right wing noise machine, we have a problem! I have to ask what the law should do about a guy legally buying an AR-15, and ammo, and posting hate stuff on social media?

You can't ask that question, it violates the right of the NRA to sell murder machines, remember Donald didn't ask that question, he wants to know what to do about mental illness, I say lock Donald up, it's a start

Maybe we will get there too Clete since just because we got the goods on some Russians, doesn't mean the investigation is over. Plus another female has been uncovered that The Dufus cheated with and got paid off. Is there no end to his scandals?

The FBI was warned that he wanted to kill people and that
there was the “potential of him conducting a school shooting.” They did not act on the tip. This is on them. Clear FBI protocols were not followed .


Cruz reportedly had dozens of run ins with law enforcement prior to shooting up Marjory Stoneman Douglas High dating back to 2010. Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said Friday that there were "20 calls for services in the last few years." They SAY he purchased the gun legally .But his backround tells me the gun shop did not do their homework either . He and his brother were both diagnosed with a variety of mental illness issues and were prescribed medication for it . He was expelled from a school because of behavioral problems ;which included finding bullets in his backpack.

What we had here was a walking billboard broadcasting danger and all the so called experts and authorities turned a blind eye to it . That is the problem.

And this is the problem ;30 years ago many schools had gun clubs . High schoolers would bring guns and ammo to school and drill after school in the school's shooting range . Semi-auto rifles were available .Although they did not look like military rifles ,they had the same capabilities. Guns didn't suddenly decide to start reigning down death in schools. What happened since then ?

Well for one thing the kids back then were taught right and wrong ,good and evil. The kids in those clubs were taught what to do and not what to do with those guns .
They lived in a time in America when right and wrong was clearly delineated , where expectations about behavior were clear.

The mainstreaming of nihilism...Cultural decay...pharmaceutical fixes(more on that below) ..all contribute to the culture they are brought up in today .The deliberate destruction of moral backstops in the culture. A lost commonality of societal pressures to enforce right and wrong. With all the shootings ,America still refuses to have a serious discussion on the issue .And that is because they would have to look in the mirror and point the finger to who created this Frankenstein.

There was a time in America when any adult on the block could reprimand a neighborhood kid who was out of line without fear. The culture still had invisible restraints developed over centuries. Those restraints were the target of years of attack by the counterculture that has now become the dominant culture. Hollywood made fun of these restraints in films too numerous to list. Now the child is always right even when a sometimes deeply medicated brat who disrupts the classroom gets away with what a good paddling would've remedied in the past. You think it's bad now ? Wait a few years when the kids who's baby sitter is their cell phone get to school .


re big Pharma ...When you talk of lobbying ....the NRA spends nothing compared to what Big Pharma spends . Note the reluctance of law makers to address the fact that many of the young generation are being poisoned by psychotropic drugs that are dispensed like candy to the kids . Our elected leaders would rather get on their high horse and spew platitudes about gun laws for a week before they go back to looking for wife abusers in the White House or phantom Russian spies under their beds rather than deal with reality . Few will draw the clear connection between the violence and the fact that in almost every case where kids do the shooting ,they were prescribed medications that generally do more harm than good . I know someone who was prescribed Prozak .The personality change and the physical affects were immediately noticeable. Thankfully this person listened to advice and got off the medications before permanent damage was done.

The FBI was warned that he wanted to kill people and that
there was the “potential of him conducting a school shooting.” They did not act on the tip. This is on them. Clear FBI protocols were not followed .

AGREED!! The call center that took this tip should have forwarded to the right people both FBI and local authorities. Obviously there is a BIG hole in the system!


Cruz reportedly had dozens of run ins with law enforcement prior to shooting up Marjory Stoneman Douglas High dating back to 2010. Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said Friday that there were "20 calls for services in the last few years." They SAY he purchased the gun legally .But his backround tells me the gun shop did not do their homework either . He and his brother were both diagnosed with a variety of mental illness issues and were prescribed medication for it . He was expelled from a school because of behavioral problems ;which included finding bullets in his backpack.

AGREED!! All those contacts and reports it boggles my mind no agencies, or resources were enabled for this fellow or the family. Worse nothing that would stop him from buying a gun was ever reported. The state, locals, and feds share a lot of blame for failing to act in any responsible manner so another one falls through what appears to be a HUGE crack. Do I include the gun shop guy in this? I am not so sure unless we get more on that. It's no secret though that buying a rifle in Florida is quick, simple, and easy if you have no felonies.

What we had here was a walking billboard broadcasting danger and all the so called experts and authorities turned a blind eye to it . That is the problem.

AGREED!! You get the trifecta!

And this is the problem ;30 years ago many schools had gun clubs . High schoolers would bring guns and ammo to school and drill after school in the school's shooting range . Semi-auto rifles were available .Although they did not look like military rifles ,they had the same capabilities. Guns didn't suddenly decide to start reigning down death in schools. What happened since then ?

For all the tragedy, havoc, and MAYHEM it's still just that one or two that creates it, and lets face it, most fly under the radar, but Cruze is in a category of his own.

Well for one thing the kids back then were taught right and wrong ,good and evil. The kids in those clubs were taught what to do and not what to do with those guns .
They lived in a time in America when right and wrong was clearly delineated , where expectations about behavior were clear.

Kids nowadays are not the real problem here, and I think its a bad rap. Despite all those changes basically we still have some good kids, but less supervised, and that's the adults....OUR generation Tom...that's what's changed. It sort of had to though, since the whole darn world has changed, not just the culture, society is different for sure, more stuff out here, and a lot more to get into, but most kids are okay I think. Kids generally emulate the adults they are exposed too.

The issue here is our system fails to address the safety and welfare of kids when it comes to how we deal with the dangerous outrageous predators that fall through the cracks of normal acceptable behavior.

The mainstreaming of nihilism...Cultural decay...pharmaceutical fixes(more on that below) ..all contribute to the culture they are brought up in today .The deliberate destruction of moral backstops in the culture. A lost commonality of societal pressures to enforce right and wrong. With all the shootings ,America still refuses to have a serious discussion on the issue .And that is because they would have to look in the mirror and point the finger to who created this Frankenstein.

Where does an unemployed 19 year old drop out get the money for an AR-15 and plenty of ammo?

There was a time in America when any adult on the block could reprimand a neighborhood kid who was out of line without fear. The culture still had invisible restraints developed over centuries. Those restraints were the target of years of attack by the counterculture that has now become the dominant culture. Hollywood made fun of these restraints in films too numerous to list. Now the child is always right even when a sometimes deeply medicated brat who disrupts the classroom gets away with what a good paddling would've remedied in the past. You think it's bad now ? Wait a few years when the kids who's baby sitter is their cell phone get to school .

I don't think its bad now. I just think years of inaction by reasonable ADULTS have steered us to a really bad place and it's time to SH1T or get off the pot!


re big Pharma ...When you talk of lobbying ....the NRA spends nothing compared to what Big Pharma spends . Note the reluctance of law makers to address the fact that many of the young generation are being poisoned by psychotropic drugs that are dispensed like candy to the kids . Our elected leaders would rather get on their high horse and spew platitudes about gun laws for a week before they go back to looking for wife abusers in the White House or phantom Russian spies under their beds rather than deal with reality . Few will draw the clear connection between the violence and the fact that in almost every case where kids do the shooting ,they were prescribed medications that generally do more harm than good . I know someone who was prescribed Prozak .The personality change and the physical affects were immediately noticeable. Thankfully this person listened to advice and got off the medications before permanent damage was done.

I agree with the general premise of lobbyists, big pharma, the NRA and all the rest of the big money profiteers who have adversely affected our elections, lives, and wellbeing for a profit, most glaring being the opioid problem, that's been around for more than a century, but just getting noticed, but will disagree about the characterization of reasonable gun control issues, wife beaters, and especially phantom spies my friend, as those are real, whether you believe it or not, your choice.

I respectfully can submit the case that those who need meds should have them as long as they are under the care and supervision of a good doctor. So before I buy they are bad for everyone, then I will leave that alone and just stay with the position some dangerous loonies are out there, young, old, and in between ready to explode on us with mayhem when they fall through the cracks. Unfortunately our society is destroying the safety net, and as a result more will suffer as more fall through those cracks that we as a society are creating.

Nice rant though, almost as good as mine.

8D

Eric Harris and Columbine was 1999 . Before that there was
‎Michael Carneal in Paducah,Ky
We have a clear point of delineation because these type of massacres were rare to nonexistent before 1998. You could take Eric Harris interchangeably with
Nikolas Cruz ....mental illness and prescribed medications .
They are the same person sending out the same signals to be ignored .

We have a clear point of delineation because these type of massacres were rare to nonexistent before 1998.

And why were they rare?

Btw, check out this site, and scroll down to the mass killings before 1998.

http://timelines.latimes.com/deadliest-shooting-rampages/

Seems to be one commonality in all those shootings....


You could take Eric Harris interchangeably with Nikolas Cruz ....mental illness and prescribed medications . They are the same person sending out the same signals to be ignored .

Both quit counseling and taking prescribed meds. Soooooo, what can be done about compliance or lack of it for the mentally ill? One of my uncles was bipolar and took lithium which worked great. Then new meds came on the market. His VA psychiatrists, trying to be modern and progressive, prescribed this one and that one. Nothing seemed to work as well as lithium. There's more to this story. Part 2 another day. Btw, mental illinesses are hell.

I guess you are are saying this is the result of allowing the mentally ill to remain in the community, they should all be institutionalised before they harm anyone, build more looney bins before building more prisons or simply remove the distinctions

I guess you are are saying this is the result of allowing the mentally ill to remain in the community, they should all be institutionalised before they harm anyone, build more looney bins before building more prisons or simply remove the distinctions
Nope. Try again.

ADDED: "Looney bins" aren't the answer. Compliance is the answer but how will that happen? (P.S. it won't -- I've counseled enough people to know that.) GUNS are the problem. Australia solved the problem with how they dealt with guns. And no, I don't agree our Second Amendment gives individuals the right to own guns ... or assault weapons ... or cannons.

Nope. Try again.

ADDED: "Looney bins" aren't the answer. Compliance is the answer but how will that happen? (P.S. it won't -- I've counseled enough people to know that.) GUNS are the problem. Australia solved the problem with how they dealt with guns. And no, I don't agree our Second Amendment gives individuals the right to own guns ... or assault weapons ... or cannons.

Hey I'm with you and it only took one looney for Australia to get the message, but then we didn't have a cashed up gun lobby to buy off the politicians, we also have a solution for the illegal immigrant problem, however, the wimps would never adopt that one either. You have a looney President who thinks gun violence is a mental health problem, and the strange part is, he is not paid to think that way, apparently, Compliance isn't the answer, the Constitution is the problem, it allows the offenders to hide behind it. Its wording is purposely vague because the founders knew they wouldn't be the ones to sort out the problems, but they had to good sense not to write it in stone, the current generation appears to think it is written in stone

The Founding Fathers had muskets that shot a round or two a minute. They had no idea about the capabilities of muskets in 2018.

AR-15s won't work well against the government's airplanes, bombs, and tanks no matter how many citizens own them.

Women have mental illnesses too, but 98% of the mass shootings are committed by men and easy access to killing machines. Thus, these killings aren't really about mental illness, are they....

Guns are certainly a major part of the problem. Going deeper, the NRA is the chief proponent of not touching the gun problem by citing the Second Amendment and, more importantly, financially supporting the endemic corruption in Congress by donating huge amounts to the re-election campaigns of Congressmen.

In order to cut off the corrupt NRA power, Citizens United must be repealed. Allowing unlimited amounts of cash to be funneled to Congressmen who vote for the NRA position is bizarre and is based solely on the false proposition that a corporation is a "person". "Persons" have free speech so, the argument goes, donating money is a form of free speech. Ergo, corporations can sway Congress to their pocketbook's content.

This idiotic Supreme Court decision went against 100 years of common sense. Its real purpose was solely to put the wealthy as the chief driving force in the nation.

How does one guy have more than 20 contacts with the local law, and not be arrested, no reports or warnings? I bet the incidence reports would shed some light on the biggest most obvious flaw in the law. As well as the source for his money to purchase a military weapon of mass destruction and plenty of ammo to complete his mission. Am I the only one who thinks it odd that soldiers, and cops go through training, and certification before being issued a weapon, but citizens do not?

How come that good guy with a gun is never around when you need him?

How come that good guy with a gun is never around when you need him?
And had the h.s. teachers been armed ("the good guys with guns"), how many more students -- and teachers -- would have been shot and killed in the ensuing chaos?

so if he had used a Remington750 semi-automatic hunting rifle it would not have been a "
military weapon of mass destruction "?



How come that good guy with a gun is never around when you need him? schools are "gun free zones " .Even security guards in schools here are unarmed . Only the roughest schools have cops permanently assigned to them

When President Reagan was shot, he was surrounded by "good guys with guns." Same when JFK was shot. And Robert Kennedy.

so if he had used a Remington750 semi-automatic hunting rifle it would not have been a "
military weapon of mass destruction "?
MLK Jr. was shot and killed with a Remington 760.

That was a pump action gun; nobody's definition of a "military weapon of mass destruction ".

That was a pump action gun; nobody's definition of a "military weapon of mass destruction ".
I didn't say it was, but it did the job very well, didn't it.

Wonder what those hard core second amendment guys have done at their kids school to prevent a tragedy like the Florida, shootings? What have they done after any shooting?

We can argue semantics all we want my friends, but what's a reasonable solution? Mine would be a total ban of any firearm until a thorough background check could be done, and documentation on qualifications, have been presented, and verified.

If its good enough for the military, its good enough for citizens.

In addition a national registry of ALL firearms no exceptions. Updated continually. If you are so paranoid of your own government confiscating your gun then you are too loony to have one. In addition, a call for A disturbance can result in your gun being taken on the spot, until it is verified you are no risk to anyone, and you must be willing to submit to a search and seizure for illegal firearms, if a cop is called for a disturbance. You are responsible for the safe storage of ALL fire arms you own, and a failure to do so will result in forfeiture of such fire arms until you demonstrate you have secured your firearm in your home.

That should be a GOOD FIRST STEP.

Why firearms in the first place? I've never owned one, needed one, wished I had one (except when I was angry at someone).

national registry like we used to track guns in Mexico ?

national registry like we used to track guns in Mexico ?
Naw. Melt them all down. Issue potato peelers to everyone.

Why firearms in the first place? I've never owned one, needed one, wished I had one (except when I was angry at someone). There are many reasons for gun ownership . Hunting ;target practice ,collection ,self protection ,and a safeguard against a tyrannical government are but a few I can think of off the top of my head . The right to own guns is a Constitutional guarantee that No one is going to change . So we can debate which regulations are "reasonable" (yes the Constitution does specify "regulated "),and enact laws based on the desires of 'we the people' .But the idea of gun bans (which is what the left really wants ;they just won't say it ) is off the table .

hmmmmm...herr Donald finally posted something on Twitter that is worth asking :



Just like they don’t want to solve the DACA problem, why didn’t the Democrats pass gun control legislation when they had both the House & Senate during the Obama Administration. Because they didn’t want to, and now they just talk!

The fore fathers put the right to bear arms in the constitution, and gave the legislature the authority to make and enforce the laws, and secure the well being of the nation, and its citizens against all enemies foreign, and domestic... or elected. The responsibility and duty of all it's citizen is to ensure our elected representatives do what the F**** we tell them to do.

Since when do we allow ANY special interest group to circumvent our RIGHTS, and FREEDOMS? Enough talk lets VOTE! I'm with the kids, talk without actions is BS! You want a gun go get one, but play by the rules.

That's the problem! The rules are inadequate for the safety of the citizens! ​Action is required!



Just like they don’t want to solve the DACA problem, why didn’t the Democrats pass gun control legislation when they had both the House & Senate during the Obama Administration. Because they didn’t want to, and now they just talk!

Typical con man BS! Look back and criticize while so far he hasn't done anything about it either except make it a wedge for HIS racist agenda. Does that answer the question?

Hmm, didn't he sign an EO eliminating not just Obamas EO about the dreamers, but also making it easier for the mentally ill to buy a gun? Why are you listening to a PROVEN lying, cheating, racist bully, who colludes with Vlad?

you mean that Obama EO that he signed on his last days in office that never went into effect ;that
did not change any existing laws regulating who is allowed to purchase guns ? Yes he did . The emperor's order would've made it mandatory for Social Security Adm to release the names of mentally ill SS recipients that the SS Agency deemed too dangerous to own guns ? You do realize that this was an outrageous order that even the ACLU opposed ?


We oppose this rule because it advances and reinforces the harmful stereotype that people with mental disabilities, a vast and diverse group of citizens, are violent. There is no data to support a connection between the need for a representative payee to manage one’s Social Security disability benefits and a propensity toward gun violence. The rule further demonstrates the damaging phenomenon of “spread,” or the perception that a disabled individual with one area of impairment automatically has additional, negative and unrelated attributes. Here, the rule automatically conflates one disability-related characteristic, that is, difficulty managing money, with the inability to safely possess a firearm.

The rule includes no meaningful due process protections prior to the SSA’s transmittal of names to the NICS database. The determination by SSA line staff that a beneficiary needs a representative payee to manage their money benefit is simply not an “adjudication” in any ordinary meaning of the word. Nor is it a determination that the person “[l]acks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs” as required by the NICS. Indeed, the law and the SSA clearly state
AMERICAN https://waysandmeans.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/ACLU.pdf

The rule would have allowed bureaucrats to bar American citizens from exercising a constitutional right on the grounds that to be incapable of managing one’s finances is, by definition, to be a “mental defective.”

Shame on anyone who supported this ruling based on a stereotype and prejudice .

herr Donald's point remains .... the Dems did NOTHING about gun control in the early days of the emperor's reign when they controlled everything .

safeguard against a tyrannical government
Guns will not ever give us that safeguard.

The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
- St. George Tucker,
Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England,
1803

1803
The date says it all. Now, let's rewrite that for the 21st century.

The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
- St. George Tucker,
Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England,
1803


And tell me Tom has the right of the British people to freedom and liberty been eroded after 200 years, guns still exist in Britain, but they don't suffer the violence of the US. You have swallowed the propaganda

Clete guns in Great Britain are a privilege not a right . So yes I think their rights are eroded .

The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
- St. George Tucker,
Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England,
1803


This is a perfect example of the right-wing living in the past. Do you really believe a handful of citizens armed with pistols and rifles can stand up against a "tyrannical" government armed with tanks, fighter planes, aircraft carriers and nuclear bombs? Not to mention a multi-million member Army, Navy and Air Force?

No, self-defense is the propaganda the gun lobby wants you to believe, and you have swallowed it wholesale. Wake up and realize that the gun manufacturers are manipulating you to protect their almighty PROFITS!

The date says it all. Now, let's rewrite that for the 21st century.
Nothing to rewrite . The principle is universal .
Hitler signed the Weapons Law of 1938, which basically said Jews weren’t allowed to own guns. He also issued Weapons Orders in the occupied countries that basically made gun ownership by non-Germans punishable by death.Chairman Mao prohibited firearm ownership in Communist China when he came to power, and that is still in effect today.T
he resistance movement forces of occupied Europe were comprised of armed civilians .
A dictator can only dictate effectively to a population that has no other choice but to follow the dictator's dictates. An armed population always has a choice.


“All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party.”
Mao Tze Tung, Nov 6, 1938





Athos presumes that the Army will stand with the tyrannical government instead of the free people . The clear mind set of the people living in the indoctrinated present .

An armed population always has a choice.



Armed with WHAT?



Athos presumes that the Army will stand with the tyrannical government instead of the free people.
Has it ever not?

Athos presumes that the Army will stand with the tyrannical government instead of the free people . The clear mind set of the people living in the indoctrinated present .

You need to read a book on History. Any book will do.

Look at the generals around the head of government at present - they even lie for the wanna-be tyrant. Do you seriously think they would stand with anyone but the government? Wanna buy a bridge in Brooklyn?

I note you avoided commenting on my gun lobby and profits comment. When you're confused about what is happening, there is an old expression that fits here - FOLLOW THE MONEY!

Okay Tom, let's try this, what do you propose to prevent gun violence, or are you saying nothing to see here move along, and just wait for the next massacre?

The gun lobby is pikers compared to other lobby groups like ...the unions SEIU ;and AFT ,even groups like Planned Parenthood spend more lobbying . The reason the NRA has clout is because it is a true people's lobby. Outside of the echo chamber ,the people support the right to own guns .

The gun lobby is pikers compared to other lobby groups like ...the unions SEIU ;and AFT ,even groups like Planned Parenthood spend more lobbying . The reason the NRA has clout is because it is a true people's lobby. Outside of the echo chamber ,the people support the right to own guns .


Tal - He has no proposal. All he can do is strike out at other lobbying groups, none of which have the slightest thing to do with the NRA. That is the typical stance of Trump and the right-wing. Deflect and distract.

He says the NRA "is a true people's lobby". Is he trying to be funny?

The reason the NRA has clout is it pays off the politicians, but the fix to this is to change focus and licence ownership. If you want an AR-15 then be licensed and go through a gun safety course. This doesn't abridge anyone's right of ownership, but it does mean the checks will be done. Why people are so paranoid about their identity is purcular, you can't drive a lethal weapon like a SUV without a license and training

The gun lobby is pikers compared to other lobby groups like ...the unions SEIU ;and AFT ,even groups like Planned Parenthood spend more lobbying . The reason the NRA has clout is because it is a true people's lobby. Outside of the echo chamber ,the people support the right to own guns .

The people support reasonable gun control laws too, overwhelmingly.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/20/politics/cnn-gun-poll/index.html

to now

Guns | Gallup Historical Trends (http://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx)

Please say whether you favor or oppose each of the following. [RANDOM ORDER].




Favor
Oppose
No opinion



%
%
%


Requiring background checks for all gun purchases
96
4
*


Enacting a 30-day waiting period for all gun sales
75
24
1


Requiring all privately-owned guns to be registered with the police
70
29
1


Oct. 5-11, 2017; * Less than 0.5%



What else do you need?

What else do you need, make political payoffs illegal, disband the PAC's and get the snouts out of the trough

If you want an AR-15 then be licensed and go through a gun safety course. This doesn't abridge anyone's right of ownership, but it does mean the checks will be done. Why people are so paranoid about their identity is purcular, you can't drive a lethal weapon like a SUV without a license and training
Generally agree. The opposition to registry is perhaps paranoia . But there is a concern that what was once legal will become illegal and the government can use that registry to confiscate . Think despots haven't done that in the past ? Think again.

Tal you know and I know that the ones screaming the loudest if you got your way would be the public and private labor unions .

What else do you need, make political payoffs illegal, disband the PAC's and get the snouts out of the trough

Good Suggestion Aussie!

The people support reasonable gun control laws too, overwhelmingly.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/20/polit...oll/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/20/politics/cnn-gun-poll/index.html)

to now

Guns | Gallup Historical Trends (http://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx)

Please say whether you favor or oppose each of the following. [RANDOM ORDER].



Favor
Oppose
No opinion



%
%
%


Requiring background checks for all gun purchases
96
4
*


Enacting a 30-day waiting period for all gun sales
75
24
1


Requiring all privately-owned guns to be registered with the police
70
29
1


Oct. 5-11, 2017; * Less than 0.5%




What else do you need?

Then you should have no issue getting your panacea laws passed ;and the question remains . If it was so popular then why didn't the Dems and the emperor pass those laws in 2009-11 when they had absolute majorities in the elective branches of government ?

Generally agree. The opposition to registry is perhaps paranoia . But there is a concern that what was once legal will become illegal and the government can use that registry to confiscate . Think despots haven't done that in the past ? Think again.

Tal you know and I know that the ones screaming the loudest if you got your way would be the public and private labor unions .

Labor unions are people too! Working blue collar people for sure. I'm a union guy myself but the bottom line is that 97% of Americans favor common sense gun control laws and are sick and tired of all the massacres and NOTHING is done.

I'm a father and grandfather before I'm a union guy, dem, gun owner, or even a Texan! I just want the carnage to stop. I'm not worried about a despot taking over America, and don't give a rats a$$ about militia style hillbillies hollering about armed resistance to the LAW! Lock the MOFO"s up!

I don't like mob violence no matter the ethnicity, and you've seen yours, and I've seen mine. I want equal protection under the law just like it says, and enough of this gerrymandered power grabs by everybody. I just ain't that down with the cultural obsession with gun rights without adequate safety controls. MOST agree with me. So let 'em holler, I don't care. Gun violence, and deaths are UNACCEPTABLE, and needs to stop PERIOD.

Is that asking too much?

ah that echo chamber catch phrase " common sense " laws as if you have a legitimate reason to oppose them then you do not have common sense . What you really need is enforcement of existing laws . There is another echo chamber phrase going around today ... 'bipartisan ' bill as if you have legitimate concerns you are being partisan.
So add it all up and you get Senator Cornyn and Sen. Murphy's bipartisan bill to improve Federal Compliance with Criminal Background checks.

Problem solved . Everyone can go back to pointing fingers at abusers . This whole thing is going to die down in a week forgotten until the next tragedy .

Pre-crime used to be the business of churches, families, schools. Post-crime was for the police. Then we did away with families, churches and school discipline. What we're left with is FBI agents spending their days on Twitter.

Trump spends his days on tweeter attacking everybody but Russia and Vlad. Not a peep from his sycophant crowd.

and yet last week the US jets killed around 100 Russian mercs in Syria .And yet US and Russian jets play chicken in the sky like the old days of the Cold War. and yet US and Russia are escalating and building up forces on NATOs borders ;especially in the Baltic States and Poland . And yet herr Donald is considering sending arms to Ukraine for their defense. Doesn't sound like Trump is Putie's poodle like the emperor was .

That's the generals Tom, you know the guy the Dufus is smarter than?

That's the generals Tom, you know the guy the Dufus is smarter than?

There is a guy Dump is smarter than?

So you think that the Generals are running a foreign policy that is counter to what Trump instructs them to do ? Wow I missed the military coup in the lame stream media .

Trump: Win the war!

Generals: Okay!

Trump: Good, let me know what you need!

That's the extent of The Dufus's instructions! You can't believe The Dufus actually has a strategy do you? Or even knows a Kurd, from a Turk, from a Russian? Or cares?

you can't believe The Dufus actually has a strategy do you?

Tal, does anyone have a strategy? The way I see it the "strategy" or is it the "policy" is confrontation. Iran, NK, Russia, China, confrontation is ongoing and with Dump escalating, but they have taken their eye off Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, Libya and so on. IS is beaten, so why continue to confront Assad? There is more to gain from allowing the refugees to return home than there is to continue an unwinnable war.

The US may be surprised by what it can achieve by talking rather than shouting

um because the unintended consequences was the creation of a corridor from Iran to the border of Israel .We will not be finished in the ME until Iran is dealt with in my opinion.

um because the unintended consequences was the creation of a corridor from Iran to the border of Israel .We will not be finished in the ME until Iran is dealt with in my opinion.

I expect you are speaking of G W Bush adventurism followed by BO's little proxy war in Syria

no I am not .By the time GW left the Sunni insurgency was defeated and more than a couple elections in Iraq had formed the basis of a shared government . What destroyed that was the emperor's commitment to leave before the work was finished . The emperor not only took the heat off of Iran and it's nuke program ;but he let them off the hook and paid them $1.7 billion in cash ;loaded onto transport planes .He funded the IRGC expansion .

no I am not .By the time GW left the Sunni insurgency was defeated and more than a couple elections in Iraq had formed the basis of a shared government . What destroyed that was the emperor's commitment to leave before the work was finished . The emperor not only took the heat off of Iran and it's nuke program ;but he let them off the hook and paid them $1.7 billion in cash ;loaded onto transport planes .He funded the IRGC expansion .

I think it is long overdue that we all took our eyes off Iraq, Iran, Syria, Yemen, Somalia and understand we have been dupes of the Saudi agenda and paranoia.

Iran is a powerful regional power but it was made that way by US backed adventurism. Iran has not attacked their neighbours. I agree that they have the old Muslim agenda of restoring Palestine to the Arabs, why they should care is beyond me but I know they are a thorn in the side of the US since the US backed Shah was kicked out. This is all so last century and last generation.

Well that's pretty selective since your Euro ancestors mucked up the world pretty good when they had the power and money to. Just because you found someplace to lord over doesn't absolve you of your own history or give you the right to stick your nose in the air and claim some sort of arrival.

Oh that's right you were running from some kind of subjugation, suppression, and or general victimization on your homeland and found a safe haven to spew your BS! There was no one to make you illegal, or at least deport you back to where you came from.

You lucky immigrant! Or conqueror, I can't tell which, but the pattern is the same.

Well that's pretty selective since your Euro ancestors mucked up the world pretty good when they had the power and money to. Just because you found someplace to lord over doesn't absolve you of your own history or give you the right to stick your nose in the air and claim some sort of arrival.

Oh that's right you were running from some kind of subjugation, suppression, and or general victimization on your homeland and found a safe haven to spew your BS! There was no one to make you illegal, or at least deport you back to where you came from.

You lucky immigrant! Or conqueror, I can't tell which, but the pattern is the same.

Tal, you are under a misapprehension, I come from here, I don't yearn for some lost motherland, I have seen the world, and candidly, much of it is crap. It is all made of ticky-tacky and it all looks just the same, as the song goes. You want to make me guilty of something the British dlckheads did here, but you can't, because for every finger you point at me, three are pointing back at you. Give Texas back to the natives or the Mexicans, then let's talk. We did not embark on a military campaign lasting decades or even centuries to dispossess the natives, there were not than many of them anyway.

My nation was not founded on the mistaken idea of manifest destiny. Our explorers crossed vast distances and only came across scattered groups, there were no villages, no indications of anything you might have found on your continent, not even one stone upon another, but you slaughtered whole nations

I have seen the world, and candidly, much of it is crap. It is all made of ticky-tacky and it all looks just the same, as the song goes.


So everybody else's crap stinks but yours? Only a closed mind would entertain putting such a value on piles of crap. You should visit Texas someday and see that there are already almost as many Hispanics as Whites. LOL, a Wall won't change that either.

Integration is a beech ain't it? Frijoles Y Arroz makes for some stankin' craps, and everybody knows that, but it's still gooder than a MOFO! Hey bring some toads and roo and we can TexMex that too.

8D

Clete many of the US casualties in Iraq were the DIRECT result of Iranian backed militias and MOST IMPORTANT ;Iranian produced
EFPs, That is an undeniable truth . They also sponsored Hezbollah at the time when Hezbollah bombed the Marine barracks in Beirut . They are also most likely responsible for the Khobar Tower attack that killed 19 US service personal and wounded 498 other people . You may forgive them for that . I don't . MY cousin was in Iraq almost the entirety of the conflict and saw way to many of his colleagues maimed and killed . We should've exited through Tehran.

Clete many of the US casualties in Iraq were the DIRECT result of Iranian backed militias and MOST IMPORTANT ;Iranian produced
EFPs, That is an undeniable truth . They also sponsored Hezbollah at the time when Hezbollah bombed the Marine barracks in Beirut . They are also most likely responsible for the Khobar Tower attack that killed 19 US service personal and wounded 498 other people . You may forgive them for that . I don't . MY cousin was in Iraq almost the entirety of the conflict and saw way to many of his colleagues maimed and killed . We should've exited through Tehran.


Not saying they are not part of a proxy war, or that they didn't have allies within Iraq.


So everybody else's crap stinks but yours? Only a closed mind would entertain putting such a value on piles of crap. You should visit Texas someday and see that there are already almost as many Hispanics as Whites. LOL, a Wall won't change that either.

Integration is a beech ain't it? Frijoles Y Arroz makes for some stankin' craps, and everybody knows that, but it's still gooder than a MOFO! Hey bring some toads and roo and we can TexMex that too.

8D

You really shouldn't get so upset Tal, when I don't want to play charades with you. You want to eat toad, go ahead. As for the roos, a bit tough for me. Our treatment of the indigenous population was better than your treatment of the indigenous population, there the argument ends. Our indigenous are allowed to live in country, not in some contrived reservation far from their roots

gotta agree with you Clete We made it virtually impossible for the natives here to retain their culture . Today they live in horrible conditions ,and are not even allowed to exploit the resources on the small parcels of land we permitted them to retain. However ,a good part of their condition today is of their own making .They are socialist archipelagos.


Reservation land is owned by the tribes and managed by the U.S. Bureau of Indian Affairs. No one is allowed to own land, and no one has responsibility for any land. So there is no incentive for anyone to use the land for economic development.
Prosperity is built on property rights, and reservations mostly have neither.


But there is hope . Some tribes are beginning to get it .
Arizona’s Navajos produce oil and gas. Oregon’s Confederated Tribes manage forests and operate hydroelectric dams.
Arizona’s White Mountain Apaches manage nine enterprises, including an aircraft parts plant, with total revenues of $45 million.
Maine’s Passamaquoddies run an auto parts plant, apparel operation, mini-mall, and farm; license out a synthetic-fiber plant and environmental scrubber technology; and have bought, and sold for a large profit, a cement plant. Wisconsin’s Oneidas own a mobile-telephone company and a partial interest in a bank, participate in a joint venture to produce circuit boards, and are moving to create metals fabrication and medical products companies. The
Choctaws have become
one of the largest employers in Mississippi.

So there is hope that the rest of the tribes will throw off the yoke of primitive socialism .

So there is hope that the rest of the tribes will throw off the yoke of primitive socialism .








And we could hope our tribal people could be so enterprising, but it may take another century. You see they don't think big because their culture never called upon them too, their focus is conservation, preserving the past, rather than improving the lot of those trapped in the present. They don't seem to see you can do both. Primitive socialism is a good description, doesn't matter how hard you work, you share everything, even your poverty

Nice spin to justify the subjugation of the people that have been conquered. If only they would realize it was for their own good. At least be honest and admit you took what they had by force against their will. You don't need whips because you have economic chains in a system you control. Some things never change, just spun differently.

We castigate other countries for being uncivilized and therefore subject to uplifting while the resources are plundered and whole societies subjugated. Iran is a great example of such exploitation, Africa another. First by the Brits and then by America. You wonder why they hate and resist us? Of course we don't care what they think, we do it because we can, and screw them. Primitive socialism indeed. Glad you treat your subjects so well in Australia Clete. Keep patting yourself on the back for trying to help such ungrateful savages.

Nice spin to justify the subjugation of the people that have been conquered. If only they would realize it was for their own good. At least be honest and admit you took what they had by force against their will. You don't need whips because you have economic chains in a system you control. Some things never change, just spun differently.

We castigate other countries for being uncivilized and therefore subject to uplifting while the resources are plundered and whole societies subjugated. Iran is a great example of such exploitation, Africa another. First by the Brits and then by America. You wonder why they hate and resist us? Of course we don't care what they think, we do it because we can, and screw them. Primitive socialism indeed. Glad you treat your subjects so well in Australia Clete. Keep patting yourself on the back for trying to help such ungrateful savages.

Well, Tal, we don't only help ungrateful savages here, we help our neighbours too, and they are just as ungrateful. You know I don't wonder why they hate and resist you? I can see the results of your policies and the way you wield your whips, you are in no way superior, in fact, yours is a savage society with a thin veneer of sophistication. You elect an emperor and call it democracy, you allow your people to be slaughtered and call it freedom

We're still working on it Clete, bear with us.

We're still working on it Clete, bear with us.

Oh, we will Tal, you are our friends, our brothers, we just don't want you exporting your ideas to us

Well I can't blame you for that, since we seem to be short some good ideas lately. We are smack in the middle of silly season (Election time) which always comes with the rock throwing contest.