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bolt in blue
Jan 24, 2017, 10:02 AM
I'm getting ready to start a kitchen renovation. I'm planning to do most of the work myself over the next few months. One of my goals is to have the kitchen out of service for as little time as possible, so I'm trying to do lots of pre-planning so I can work fast but not cut any corners when things get rolling.

The house was built in 1960, with the kitchen reconfigured and largely replaced in 1979. The current kitchen was poorly installed and the cabinets and counters are worn out. There's also a major air leak from the outside, so all the exterior drywall will be coming down. Despite being small, these houses were well built and had high end kitchens for their day - electric wall oven and separate cooktop, dishwasher, and disposer were all standard. The house got new 200 amp service with a Square D QO panel in 2007.

Currently, the kitchen has these circuits:

20 amp 120/240 volt - gas cooktop igniter and unused 120v circuit (original wall oven circuit)
30 amp 120/240 volt - wall oven (original cooktop circuit)
20 amp 120 volt - fridge and counter GFCI outlets, exterior wall
20 amp 120 volt - counter GFCI outlets, interior wall (split off above circuit around 2008)
20 amp 120 volt - dishwasher
15 amp 120 volt - disposer
15 amp 120 volt - ceiling light (also has some lights and outlets in other rooms)


In the new kitchen, I'll be going with a freestanding range so I'll need a new 120/240 40 or 50 amp circuit. I'm hoping to reuse as much of the other wiring to the kitchen as possible, since the kitchen is about 50 feet of wire run from the panel, even though I's relatively easily accessible. Here's what I'd like to change:


Add 6/3 or 8/3 40 or 50 amp range circuit
Use 10/3 from current oven circuit for new 20 amp 120 volt OTR microwave circuit (cap second hot)
Use 12/3 from current cooktop for new 20 amp 120 volt fridge circuit (cap second hot)
Adjust current small appliance circuit wiring so every other outlet is on a different circuit (still two circuits, just arranged differently)
Add new outlets to lighting circuit to put undercounter and drawer lighting on the same circuit as lights (will be plugged in LED modules on a wall switch)


My questions are:

None of these circuits are currently AFCI protected. My understanding is that I don't need it (under 2011 code right now) but it looks like Virginia will adopt the 2014 code in July, so if I'm not done by then, I believe the counter circuits will need to be on AFCI breakers but not things like the fridge, dishwasher, and disposer
Any problems with outlets above/behind counters on the lighting circuit for my cabinet lighting?
Any issues with the repurposed microwave and fridge circuits? I'm doing a convection microwave, but haven't been able to find a 240 volt one, so it looks like I'll be stuck with 120 volts for now
Most ranges are currently 40 amp, but I've looked at several that are 50 amp, so I'm leaning towards 50 amp since I haven't purchased yet
Any other issues I should be aware of? I haven't done that much work in the last few years and did most of my previous work under the 2008 code - the whole house except the kitchen has been brought up to at least the 2005 code and the only thing not up to 2008 code is some non-combination AFCI breakers


Thanks for your advice - you all have always been very helpful in the past when I was more actively involved in doing renovations!

donf
Jan 24, 2017, 11:32 AM
Just a quick look, so far.

1) Do not use 10/3 with ground or 12/3 with ground. Stick with 10/2wg (30 amp) and 12/2 (20 amp)wg.

Down the road, if you go to use the previously capped of conductors you would be using Multiwire circuits (shared Neutrals) The rules governing those types of circuits and the safety of the neutral makes them dangerous in the hands of a novice.

Regardless of the code level, the kitchen is required to have two 20 amp GFCI circuits to serve the countertop recepts.

The electrical requirements of the stove would be governed by the electrical instructions of the stove's manufacturer. So do not just run 50 amp 4 wire circuit for the range until you know that what you will need. I highly doubt it, 50 amp is way to high for a residential range.

I would put a dedicated 20 circuit in for the microwave as well as the refrigerator.

Just curious, where in Virginia are you, I'm in the Tidewater Area.

bolt in blue
Jan 24, 2017, 01:02 PM
Donf, the existing wiring is 10/3 and 12/3. I would not pull either of those for new 120 volt work. The 12/3 is currently feeding two 120 volt circuits, although one has a single outlet on it with nothing plugged in (using a two pole breaker). I don't need the extra circuits and would prefer to not take up the extra space for having each on a two pole breaker.

Kitchen already has two 20 amp GFCI circuits.

I am leaning towards this range, which requires a 50 amp circuit: http://www.sears.com/kenmore-30inch-slide-in-electric-range-stainless-steel/p-02242543000P?sellerId=SEARS&prdNo=4&blockNo=4&blockType=G4#

Microwave will definitely be on a 20 amp dedicated circuit. I'd like the fridge to be dedicated, but don't think it needs to be 20 amp, although that's what it will end up on if it's using existing wiring.

I'm in Northern Virginia.

ma0641
Jan 24, 2017, 03:17 PM
My understanding is kitchens will require BOTH AFCI and GFCI. The easiest thing ius to use a dual purpose breaker.

bolt in blue
Jan 25, 2017, 10:24 AM
Is the AFCI change under 2014? I understood that nothing changed between 2008 and 2011 for AFCI. What about things like the dishwasher, disposer, microwave, and fridge? Or is the AFCI requirement only for the small appliance outlets?

hfcarson
Aug 10, 2017, 04:36 AM
The AFCI language in the NEC is similar in both 2011 and 2014....
"All 120-Volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors,libraries , dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas to be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter...."

the above language is out of 210.12 - 2011 edition. "Kitchens" are added to the above list in the 2014 edition.

Let me also clarify one more thing, the definition of an "outlet" is not another name for a receptacle. The definition is in Article 100: "Outlet - A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment."

So in the 2014 code does the dishwasher, disposer, microwave, and fridge require AFCI protection?
If they are supplied by a 15 or 20 ampere, single phase branch circuit, Yes.

ma0641
Aug 10, 2017, 03:28 PM
One of the issues of NEC 2014 was the refrigerator requirement. Most people think it would be in the receptacle behind the refrigerator. However, it can be an AFCI breaker. Unfortunately, there are a number of sad stories of people being away when the AFCI breaker tripped on the refrigerator resulting in $$ spoiled food.
I had lightning hit our mountain house last year, Honeywell Smart valve and 3 AFCI's, all under my deductible! Smart valve replaced but not the AFCI's as the 1999 NEC required them but the county had not updated when we bought the property in 2000.

Stratmando
Aug 11, 2017, 09:11 AM
To add, I would Prepare Range at 50 Amps, Better to have and not need it, than to need and not have it. Personally I don't like Kitchen on AFCI, GFCI should be good. But go by current code. Never seen a problem before. Using the #10 for for micro and capping is good, place on 20 amp breaker, capping the extra to fridge is good and should be on its own circuit, you can only have 2 receptacles per circuit in Kitchen, would have lights on a different circuit, as it won't leave you in the dark should a receptacle trip. If you have 1 foot of counter space, you need a receptacle, 11" you don't have too. Wouldn't do any multi circuits, have each circuit have its own neutral. Maximum 4' between receptacles. Good Luck
Would also use #8's for cook top. You never know