I have a 1990 Honda Civic that stopped working out of the blue...

Symptoms:
- engine turns/cranks
- engine will not turn over/fire

Checks and changes:
- changed spark plugs
- changed rotar and dist. cap
- changed air filter
- changed starter
- changed fuel filter
- changed fuel injectors
- changed main relay
- getting sparks
- getting fuel all the way to the fuel injector
- single blink on ECU

Don't know what else to check or change? I think I may have a bad ground, but don't know how/where to check...

Any ideas?

Thanks

My first thought was a broken timing belt, but I don't think you would get spark if it was. Try turning the engine over until the timing mark on the vibration damper is lined up with 0 degrees. Then take the distributor cap off and see if the rotor is pointing to #1 or #4. If not, the timing belt may have slipped. If so, may as well replace it while you have things apart.

Yes true it souns like the belt

Thanks labman...

Where is the vibration damper? And how can I tell it's lined up with 0 degrees.

Sounds like your timing is off. My reasoning is like this: you are getting both fuel and spark, your main relay is working fine so that wouldn't stop the car from starting, so the only thing left to do is ignite the fuel at the right time.

There is a white mark on the Crankshaft Pulley. When the mark is pointing up, it means that first cylinder is at TDC. Put the car in 4th or 5th gear and have someone push it until you can see the mark, or if you can lift the car up in the air, put it in gear and rotate the wheels until you can see the mark. Now if you take the top valve cover off, you will see Camshaft Pulley, which has the word "UP" written on it. When the first cylinder is in TDC the camshaft pulley's "UP" mark should be pointing up or down, but not anywhere else. If it's not the case, your timing belt has slipped a tooth (or more).

If you have a timing gun, do inspect your timing.

Have you checked the Igniter Unit inside your distributor? You have a procedure how to check it in the other post in this forum, titled "Sparkless & In The Snow" or something like that. It is known that if your car has problems starting - it could very well be the main relay or the igniter unit.

Thanks CroCivic91...

I will try troubleshooting the timing.

I'm getting sparks so could I still have a bad igniter? I will try the tests on the ingniter.

Any thoughts about a possible bad ground?

I'm also curious as to why I'm not smelling any gas after having cranked my engine over and over? It's almost like my fuel injectors are not injecting, but I've changed the lower injector already and the main relay...

Thanks very much for the feed back!!

I am happy CroCivic gave more detailed instructions. It helps having somebody that has a Honda. I have to work from my general knowledge of cars. What he called the crankshaft pulley is what I meant when I used the name vibration damper. They are marked, and there should be a timing scale mounted on the engine near the top of the pulley. The spark timing can also be off, but I doubt it would have happened suddenly, unless the distributor is loose. It is adjusted by turning the distributor.

A final check of the fuel injector is to pull it loose, point it where spraying gas won't hurt, and crank the engine. If gas doesn't squirt out, you have a problem with the fuel delivery.

I doubt the problem is the ground. It never hurts to make sure it is OK. Follow the negative cable from the battery to where it bolts to the body or engine. There should also be a cable from the body to the engine. You can remove all the bolts and sand or wire brush any corrosion or other crud you find on the connections.

I'm getting sparks so could i still have a bad igniter? I will try the tests on the ingniter.
Hm, you are right... if you are getting sparks then igniter unit should be working all right, since the diagram is something like this:
Igniter unit->ignition coil->rotor->spark plugs
So I guess no need to try that.


Any thoughts about a possible bad ground?
I'm not really familiar much with grounding stuff, but I would definitely believe labman and do as he said.


I'm also curious as to why i'm not smelling any gas after having cranked my engine over and over? It's almost like my fuel injectors are not injecting, but I've changed the lower injector already and the main relay...
Oh, I guess you have the DX type of Civic... it only has 2 injectors... the lower one you replaced is only an AUXILIARY injector... I'm not sure when it delivers gas, perhaps when the throttle is wide open, or perhaps until the engine heats up... the upper injector is the Main Injector. You can test the injectors this way: disconnect the 2 pin electric connector from them, and measure resistance between the two terminals on the injector (not the connector). Main injector should have 0.6 - 1.6 ohms, and auxiliary should have 6 - 10 ohms. If resistance is out of range, you should replace the injector.

Since you already replaced the aux injector, you know how it's done, so testing the main one labman's way would not be hard and I do suggest you try it.

Now if you take the top valve cover off, you will see Camshaft Pulley, which has the word "UP" written on it.

Holy crap, sorry for this, I messed up. I wanted to say: take the top timing belt cover off! UGH!

Valve cover has nothing to do with this. When you look at your engine, you will see valve cover in the middle, distributor on the left, and timing belt cover on the right. Timing belt cover is made of 2 pieces and you should only take the top one off. Do not remove the valve cover - no need to do that.

Thanks for taking the time to provide all the great feedback CroCivic/labman...

I have already tested both injectors and they are both within range.

I've tested the main relay (using the test procedures in the manual) and all is well, I can hear/feel the main relay clicking when I turn the ignition switch.

My next steps will be to verify:

- timing belt
- grounds

The reason I'm suspecting a bad ground is when I had to boost my battery, I connected the black booster cable to the ground on my engine block and I wasn't getting a proper boost (weak). After I giggled the ground connection, I was able to get a proper (strong) boost. A friend of a friend also had starting problems and when he brought it into a shop, they basically replaced everything under the hood only to discover he had a bad ground.

Anyway, will get in the garage later tonight for some more troubleshooting...

Will keep you all posted...

Try checking timing and if that don't work try on all grounds for corrsion or not connected. Try check around battery and the starter. There should be 3 cables that come down from the starter the battery for a direct connect and the ground should go to the frame :cool:

My civic has risen from it's grave...

Many Thanks to Jlo for the countless hours on the phone, internet and under the hood!! Also to everyone online for the great feedback!!

The problem ended up being "timing". We were able to get the civic running by adjusting the position of distributor assembly.

For someone's future reference, here's how we figured it out.
- we got the Number One piston to the highest position in the shaft
- we checked the rotor's alignment with the distributer cap, the alignment was off
- we rotated the distributor assembly to align the rotor with the dist cap

The civic is now starting but I'm now having the following issues...
- starts but then stops
- idles erratically i.e. surges and idles fast

Any ideas?

You may not have the timing exactly right. There should be a decal under the hood somewhere with tune up specifications. It should be some like 4 degrees BTDC at 400 RPM. Usually if the distributor has a vacuum advance, you disconnect it and plug the hose to the engine. You then connect a timing light to #1 spark plug, and shine it on the scale by the crankshaft pulley. Watch the belts. Then you turn the distributor a little to get exactly the specified timing.

Woot! Nice thing you got it started.

Erratic idle is something that happens all the time with 4th gen Civic/CRX and many different things worked for different people.

For example: my idle used to be a bit low, and the car used to shake. After I replaced the fuel filter it disappeared.

Then my idle started to stay high after stopping at a red light. Cleaning the throttle body and getting some grease "in" the throttle cable solved that.

Also, getting a new Oxygen sensor really improved how the car felt while driving. Acceleration was much smoother, idles perfect and so on.

Some people (including a friend of mine) found cleaning the EACV to be helpful and sorted their idle.

On a side note, I believe timing on our Civic should be set to something like 16-18 BTDC.

Edit: I just checked: timing should be set to 18+-2 at 780rpm (idle rpm).

Update...

Took the civic on the road today and here's what's happened.

- no problem with initial starting
- if car is stopped and left lidling, car will suddenly cut out in 1 or 2 minutes
- when driving, car will jerk every so often like it's cutting out
- when and if car stalls, car will not start easily i.e. must crank for 10-20 secs with accelerator pedal down.
- can sometimes save the car if I step on the accelerator before it cuts out
- accelerator often slow to react
- no codes on ECU (ECU blinks every 4 seconds)

Could a bad fuel pump filter be causing this?

May be water in the gas or a clogged filter. If its water you could try some rubbing alcohol, you know the clear stuff. That and some fuel injector cleaner. If it's the filter you should see if it is and change if need be

With all the symptoms you said here I can safely say that your Oxygen Sensor is faulty. First of all, if it blinks once every 4 seconds, it means that it is an error code 1 - which means Oxygen Sensor. Next, I had the "slow to react to acceleration" and "will jerk constantly while driving" symptoms on my Civic and replacing the Oxygen Sensor really smoothened the ride, and both of those problems were gone. Also, stepping on the gas pedal usually stopped my car from dying while on red light.

I'm positive this is an Oxygen Sensor issue.

Thanks Crocivic!!

I will change when I have a chance and let you know...

Do let me know... I'm quite curious about Civic problems :)

Installed a new (used) O2 sensor. Cleared the error code from the ECU and I'm not getting the error code any more i.e. one blink when civic is started and no other blinks afterwards.

Engine is still cutting out when stopped and idling... the civic gets more difficult to start after each time it stalls.

Just noticed that even pressing on the accelerator when the engine is about to die only saves it sometimes.

I will check the filter on the fuel pump next.

Thoughts..

Skip the rubbing alcohol. Check the label, and you will find it is part WATER. The rest may be isopropanol, less effective. Buy the regular fuel line deicer, it is the straight methanol you want. If the car set in damp weather, you could have water in the gas problems. It is always best to check simple, cheap things like water and filters before replacing an oxygen sensor. In general though, listen to Crocivic. Unlike me and some others here, he has a Honda and a manual.

Actually the alcohol obsorbs the water, even though it contains water, it sucks the water up and actually gives the gas a boost. Even a auto parts store will tell you that. Actually I've gone as far as using 80% (isopropyl) not isopropanol alcohol to run a engine. But the thing of it is, you have to look around for the high concentrated stuff for it to give affects right away.

If your oxygen sensor is good now, and your fuel injectors are good, then the next most probable cause for your problems is a clogged fuel filter. When was the last time you replaced your Fuel Filter? Manual states that it should be replaced every 4 years. It sounds reasonable that a clogged fuel filter would resist fuel flowing to the injectors, and lack of fuel would make the car stop.

Does the car react better to acceleration now? Does it jerk while driving?

I just now remembered that you said you have 2 injectors only, that means you do not have an Injector Resistor Box, so that is eliminated as a possible cause for problems. If I understood you wrong, let me know and I will tell you how to check your resistor box.

Edit: I just now noticed that you said, in your first post, that you changed the fuel filter. Is your idle set too low?

That's right, I have a dual fuel injection system - so no resistor.

I only started it a couple of times on my driveway last night so I can't tell if it's still jerky. Will try driving it around tonight.

The fuel filter was one of the very first things that I changed (found lots of sediment in the old fuel filter when I poured out the remaining fuel). I have yet to check the fuel pump and the filter sock on it... with all the crud in the fuel filter, I'm wondering if there's a lot in the tank?

I will try adjusting my idle, but my idle seems OK before it cuts out??

I guess I will try the deicer stuff too...

Not that anybody would want to add it to their gas tank, but isopropanol and isopropyl alcohol are 2 names for the same thing.

Do check the pump filter first then.

I also avoid driving with just a few liters in the tank left. Who knows what's lying on the bottom of my tank.

Yeah the tank could be full of crap.

You mentioned you changed the main relay and checked it as well... I'm just curious to know: what brand main relay did you get? Also, have you checked the computer for error codes again since the last time you said you did?

The relay brand is "Mitsuba". There is only 1 blink on the ECU when I start the car - no more errors.

I went to check my fuel pump filter and I discovered that I need to remove the fuel tank to get access to it... ahhhhh... I think this "do it yourselfer" has reached the end of the road... If there's crap in the tank, I think my only option is to get it professionally cleaned.

Is there anything I can add to my tank to break the crap down?

No not really, a tank cleaning and a filter change should be done for that.

Still taking the bus...

Do you guys think it may be an issue with my Alternator?? I have a lot of symptoms associated with Alternator problems... will be bringing in my battery for testing as well (I think I drained/killed it with all the cranking and boosting).

I think I mentioned connections already. If you are having electrical problems too, you really need to go through and make sure all the connections to the battery, solenoid, starter, and alternator are clean and tight. That includes where the battery is grounded to the body or engine, and any ground straps between the body and engine. Also, a wire could be broken inside the insulation and only making contact part of the time. Wiggle the wires around with the engine running and see if it misses or stalls.

Just wanted to say "Thanks" to everyone's valuable input and to put some closure on the issue I had with my 1991 Civic DX.

After may long hours in the garage, I was finally able to pinpoint the starting/running issue with my civic. The problem ended up being a bad igniter.

In reviewing this case, you may notice that the igniter was changed very early on in the troubleshooting process. The problem here is that the first igniter was bad (came from a salvage yard). This is not to say that parts from the salvage yard are bad... In fact, the second igniter that got the car running is also from the salvage yard. So beware, when using parts from a salvage yard...

Also note that a bad igniter has many many symptoms of other problems so be careful when diagnosing.

Thanks again!

Glad you worked it out...

Enjoy your ride!

I have a trouble with my car (91 crx hf)(105 000 miles)the car was working fine until I came to house from work I parked the car and went to sleep.Next day I woke up I was going to the store I tried to start the car it wouldn't do anythithig; it's pretty funny it never gave me trouble to start I tried to start the car straight from the starter without usig the switch, it does start now but it won't stay runnig. Any idea somebody what might be wrong with the car?

There is a FAQ thread on this forum about Honda Civic not starting. Did you go through it and checked everything mentioned there? ECU error codes?