I've been reading up on the posts about the ETG test on here and I see how some of you respond to people looking to see if they're going to pass, so I'm going to preface this post by saying these questions are not being asked because I'm concerned about a test.

I'm in a drug court program and they started using the ETG test a few months back. I have asked the drug testing facility, my probation officer, and my court appointed therapist and no one is willing to divulge any information regarding the test. I have asked what the cutoff is (for fear of incidental exposure) and no one will tell me. They do not acknowledge that one can be positive without actually drinking, and that everything on the internet about that is wrong. This leads me to believe that the cut off is fairly high, but I don't know. They won't even tell me what 7 drugs are on the "7 panel test" I'm given. My first question is, then, is it not my legal right to know what I'm being tested for? I understand total abstinence means total abstinence (and I honor the agreement to abstain that I made with the court), but I would nevertheless like to know what they're digging around for in my urine.

My second question is in regards to the test itself. Reading through the forum, I noticed most people were of average (or not too far above or below) size (BMI). In a significantly overweight individual, do these times vary? I noticed that DrBill100 would take into account in his calculation BAC level. A person at 130 pounds is going to have a much higher BAC than a person at 330 pounds. Does this result in shorter ETG detection time? If ETG ceases production at BAC=0, and if BAC is lower due to more body weight (of fat, not muscle), it logically follows that less ETG would be produced. I'm asking because I am not a doctor, nor a scientist, nor do I have any experience with this test besides taking it so what logically follows for me may not be what actually is the case.

The unreliability of this test still has me nervous despite my abstinence. I'm trying to research as much as I can about this test because I was told nothing about the test, other than the "80 hour" claim. I like to be informed. Also, upon completion of the program I would like to advocate for fairness within the drug court. I have been sober the entire time I have been in drug court and yet, I still had to spend significant time in jail due to things that were out of my control. Drug court is an amazing thing (and I feel fortunate to be in it), but it is not without it's flaws. I figure, being on the receiving end of the rules gives me a different understanding these flaws than the staff has. Just trying to expand my knowledge.

I would just like to hear from people with more knowledge about this test than I have regarding the questions I have. I hope I put this into the right category.

Sorry for the novel. I'm a philosophy student and tend to go into too much detail in my writing. Thanks for your time!

Also, in regards to body weight:

Forgot to add to my question that not just BAC is effected by weight, but also grams of alcohol per kilogram of body weight. Does this also influence ETG clearance?

Also, in regards to body weight:

Forgot to add to my question that not just BAC is effected by weight, but also grams of alcohol per kilogram of body weight. Does this also influence ETG clearance?

Any process man makes has it's flaws, but science is always updating both knowledge and procedures as things are learned. Get with a clinician if you want to understand more but most court and PO's depend on the results the labs give them and have little knowledge how it works, just the results they can act on. They have to set a standard or range by which to apply the law, and YOU must understand that humans with too much knowledge will try to CHEAT the system so are kept in the dark as much as possible.

For what you are asking though is best answered by a clinician, or a science teacher, not by us laymen who only know the PROCESS and very little of the science behind it. What do you expect a PO to say except the internet is wrong? Their whole premise is to catch people cheating and they test for everything that can be used by people caught trying to get around the system.

Abstinence is the BEST way to get through probation, or workplace testing as flawed as the system is. For more, contact the lab you give samples to. They all have published literature.

Any process man makes has it's flaws, but science is always updating both knowledge and procedures as things are learned. Get with a clinician if you want to understand more but most court and PO's depend on the results the labs give them and have little knowledge how it works, just the results they can act on. They have to set a standard or range by which to apply the law, and YOU must understand that humans with too much knowledge will try to CHEAT the system so are kept in the dark as much as possible.

For what you are asking though is best answered by a clinician, or a science teacher, not by us laymen who only know the PROCESS and very little of the science behind it. What do you expect a PO to say except the internet is wrong? Their whole premise is to catch people cheating and they test for everything that can be used by people caught trying to get around the system.

Abstinence is the BEST way to get through probation, or workplace testing as flawed as the system is. For more, contact the lab you give samples to. They all have published literature.

Thanks for your answer. I understand why they keep us in the dark, I suppose. I've earned trust and developed good relationships with the drug court staff as well as my PO, and I'm fairly certain they know I'm only asking for the sake of knowledge. I am not cut out for jail and alcohol and drugs are just not worth going back there. I didn't have a substance abuse issue going in, so it isn't as hard for me to abstain as some of those who legitimately need treatment. Not saying I didn't need to change certain behaviors, I know I got in trouble for a reason so don't take that the wrong way. But I digress. My concern with ETG is the incindental exposure and I just wanted to know the cut off I'm being tested at, at the very least.

The problem with asking the lab I test at is that one of the owners is part of the drug court staff. The lab provides therapy for treatment as well as the testing. Its quite an unprofessional operation. I do not receive my therapy with them but as I have said, I've built good relationships with the staff. I was pulled into this staff member's office at one point to discuss a matter unrelated to this post and somehow, another drug court participant's positive ETG results were brought up. I'm certain this woman did not drink (she was in my group therapy and I'm pretty keen on when I'm being lied to). I told the staff member my opinion on this matter since it was brought up and she said that it was impossible to fail an ETG without drinking and that woman and everyone else that claims innocence is a "huge f***ing liar", word for word. I understand the majority of the time, that is the case. People lie. I've also asked the gentlemen in the lab about the test and they said, also a quote, "we just put the pee in the machine we can't tell you anything". No published literature there, just cockroaches and pee.

My PO is actually not how you described most being. She is probably the one person on the staff that has a reasonable view on the ETG. That is, that it is useful in detecting relapse but should not be taken as a definite relapse and a positive warrants keeping a closer eye on someone and not necessarily a jail sanction. To a reasonable extent, of course. Case by case basis.

I appreciate your answer. This is where I started looking around a few months back for information on the test and there seemed to be a plentitude of knowledge. Perhaps I'll go to another lab and speak with a technician there. I'm graduating drug court in January so I won't be subject to the test much longer but I'm still very interested in knowing more, so thanks for giving me direction on where to get more knowledge.

And you left out, the issue of race, some races absorb at a higher rate, The reason some will appear and become drunk faster.

For the first issue, no there is no "right" to know the cut off, since by law, none means none, so they can revoke the program with any usage, Just one beer, if you get caught can get you kicked out of a drug court program.

You are in even higher standards than normal probation, and the reason people wish to know cut offs is so they can cheat the system and still drink some.

As you know some things can cause false positives, failures, you know what not to use, and you know your program does not accept these as excuses. All probation programs will not listen to failures for other reasons.

You sign away a lot of your rights to be on probation and really more under a court program.

Yes weight makes a difference, but your program may also take weight into consideration, and have different cut offs due to weight.

And you left out, the issue of race, some races absorb at a higher rate, The reason some will appear and become drunk faster.

For the first issue, no there is no "right" to know the cut off, since by law, none means none, so they can revoke the program with any usage, Just one beer, if you get caught can get you kicked out of a drug court program.

You are in even higher standards than normal probation, and the reason people wish to know cut offs is so they can cheat the system and still drink some.

As you know some things can cause false positives, failures, you know what not to use, and you know your program does not accept these as excuses. All probation programs will not listen to failures for other reasons.

You sign away a lot of your rights to be on probation and really more under a court program.

Yes weight makes a difference, but your program may also take weight into consideration, and have different cut offs due to weight.

I didn't know race could play a role in that. That's interesting.

I understand no tolerance means no tolerance and I'm abiding by the rules. I also know I signed over some of my rights, I just didn't know I signed over the right to know what they're looking for in my body. It seems pretty basic but you're right, people will try to cheat the system because they already do so even without knowing these things.

My personal program does not know my weight so I doubt they consider that. So if someone is of a higher weight, will they not test out as far as someone much lighter than them at the same cutoff? I know everyone is different and two people can be the same weight and drink the same amount and test differently but generally speaking, without taking the other variables into account, is this true?

I do wish Dr Bill was still here, he like my friend here in China, quotes exact percents and things, but body mass can have an effect but it is not that large. A larger person, has a slight edge on passing, when all other things are equal.

I do wish Dr Bill was still here, he like my friend here in China, quotes exact percents and things, but body mass can have an effect but it is not that large. A larger person, has a slight edge on passing, when all other things are equal.

His posts have certainly provided me with a lot of answers to other questions I had. I try not to direct too many questions to the drug court staff about specifics because I don't want to raise any eyebrows, so his posts have been a wealth of information and satisfied much of my curiousity.

I appreciate your answers! I was hesitant to post because I was almost certain my curiosity would be mistaken for me trying to figure out how to cheat. I'm too close to the finish line for that risk! I'd rather do what I need to do (i.e. stay clean) and live in a bubble to avoid a false positive than go back to jail and extend my stay within the system.

Im going to find someone with a background in this area to talk to about the test in more detail but you both have been really informative so I thank you for that.

I think your best source would be a university or teaching hospital where the science for medical testing originates from. Often the same labs that administer drug tests also contract with private doctors and hospitals for a range of medical testing on patients.