The response to the refugee crisis brings up the question of religion. Where before the emphasis was on helping the displaced masses new initiatives by Australia and Britain will focus on the persecuted, and while some of these groups are ethnic minorities, others are religious minorities, and in the ME that means Christians. No sooner had the idea been floated than the islamists became disturbed less their people be disadvantaged.

It is time that persecution of minorities is not rewarded by the dominant group being able to migrate. They have clearly demonstarted in recent days they have the resources to do this for themselves. So should the persecuted peoples of the ME, Assyrians, Armenians, Kurds, Christians, Druze, Yazidi, Mennonite be singled out for assistance, after all when they move that move will be permanent..

From my own point of view I would rather see these peoples resettled than those who are less inclined to assimilate after all there are broader support groups for them in the community

There is that word assimilate again. What does that even mean?

The issues I have seen lately is there is not a lot of assimilation. Ethnic groups move and attempt to keep their own cultures, language and at times customs that conflict with the laws. Then as in America, they sue to change the culture of laws of the nation they were to assimilate into.

Everyplace on earth enough Muslims amass historically... Trouble soon fallows as they start demanding everyone else conform to THEIR demands... while they rarely if ever actually conform to those of their host country. Proof is What has happened in France....and the systematic persecutions and genocide of non-muslims in every Muslim majority country on earth.

I cannot think of any specific examples in America, since freedom of religion is the law, that fit your narrative Charles, but is a Christian in China legal? Persecutions of minorities by the majority is as old as man, even when you call it assimilation.

Tal for the muslim assimilation is a one way street whereas every established society expects that newcomers fit in and respect, if not adopt, local customs. For example, in France the French expect that French is the spoken language, in English speaking countries we expect English to be spoken. I expect that a full range of meats is available with no restrictions on consumption, recently muslims attempted to have pork banned from a school canteen. We have a debate going on about halal certification in a country with less than 5% muslims. It will be interesting to see what happens to Octoberfest when muslims get loose in Germany. Have you seen the mess the refugees have left behind, they certainly don't understand the fetish for tidiness of the Germanic peoples and assimilation even on that level will be difficult as anyone who has visited a muslim country knows.

Realistically we can only expect generational assimilation in any migrant group but Muslims do not assimilate, they work to change the societies to adopt their laws and thinking, but in the thinking of my country Islam is considered barbaric and many of their practices banned

Sorry Clete I was too busy laughing at the circus over a county clerk going to jail for refusing to grant marriage licenses to anyone because she didn't want to discriminate. Her religious beliefs don't allow her to abet gay couples who wanted to marry so she serves no one who wants to marry.

Probably the same as pro-lifers force assimilating pro choicers, making laws according to whatever is the majority religion against the minority ones.

All you religious types should get over yourselves and stop trying to force assimilate (convert) others into your religion.

At least non-muslims don't tell people convert to OUR religion or die... then make good on that promise... the way muslims do.

Individually isn't where the threat lies on average (except for the REAL muslim troublemakers)....its their mob mentality when they amass in large enough numbers that it comes out even with the more moderate ones.

As Smoothy has told you Tal I have never attempted to convert a muslim or anyonelese for that matter under threat of death or even hell. This is what you liberally minded types don't get, it is not an even playing field an either or situation. As to prolife, I am unashamedly prolife because every life should have an opportunity to live and no woman should be able to say otherwise by reason of convenience. Someone has to have a voice for those who cannot speak. I recognise, just as you do, that there are some people who don't respond well to being told their chosen solution isn't in vogue. These are people who don't understand what it truly is to live in a free society.

The thing is Tal that separation of Church and state doesn't confer a right to ignore moral values or a right not to be heard on a subject and that goes either way. Why don't you spend more time defending the community from idiots with guns than you do defending the community from idiots with values

Why don't you spend more time defending the community from idiots with guns than you do defending the community from idiots with values


The idiots with values are infinitely more dangerous than the few with guns.

parttime, don't we wish that were true but in a nation where every idiot has at least one gun and few have any real values you are on the wrong end of the argument. I just don't see how it can be justified that there can be more guns than people, that in itssself is a proof of widespread idiocy. The fact is that guns do kill people when they are in the hands of idiots

Nope... proof that the Founding fathers were smart enough to give people the RIGHT to possess them to prevent a Tyrannical government from rising. Because an unarmed populace is incapable of defending itself from one, as history has proven. Every one that has arisen in the last several hundred years started by disarming the people.

The thing is Tal that separation of Church and state doesn't confer a right to ignore moral values or a right not to be heard on a subject and that goes either way

You are wrong... I can ignore anybody's moral values that I please! I have my own thank you, and that's good enough for me, so mind your own "moral" values. Even Smoothies usual roaring rhetoric can't change that. You both have a right to talk smack though.

That's freedom! Enjoy yours while I enjoy mine. We should take a million refugees. Smoothie can afford to give a little more, and he has a big back yard!

He needs someone to keep the critters out of his attic.

You are wrong... I can ignore anybody's moral values that I please! I have my own thank you, and that's good enough for me, so mind your own "moral" values. Even Smoothies usual roaring rhetoric can't change that. You both have a right to talk smack though.

That's freedom! Enjoy yours while I enjoy mine. We should take a million refugees. Smoothie can afford to give a little more, and he has a big back yard!

He needs someone to keep the critters out of his attic.

They are good for Target practice... paper ones are too easy..

A million refugees, a million muslims with no idea of your way of life running free, demanding sharia law and twelve year old brides, demanding the right to honour killings in a nation where sex is recreation, I can see it now. You think you got problems, a million muslims with access to guns, think on Iraq for a while I know where they would plant their first mosque, right in time square, oh wait a minute they have already done that. New York as New Beiruit, sharia on one side, sunni on the other, kurds in the middle, I bet your irish and your italians would love that and your jews would go ape.

I will tell you this Tal anyone who has lived among Muslims even for a short time doesn't want to do it again

We have always had a large Muslim community in the US, and I have lived with a few from various sects with no problems.

Go scare someone else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States

Obama claims Muslims founded America.



However there is little proof of it. And none signed the Declaration of Independence

Few, that's the operative word, try living under muslim domination and, yes vikings found america too and so did indians but Columbus got the credit, was he a muslim? In those days maybe, maybe not. Your founding fathers stole it from the indians and the british. Independence, not a muslim idea, their idea is loyalty to an all pervading caliphate. Look Obama is a muslim, as the muslims say once a muslim always a muslim and Obama was educated in Indonesia so he understands it well, but you need to be concerned about the beliefs of the next one because Obama is going to leave some big problems to be dealt with.

Its certainly hard to ignore such a large religion, so you engage, or be afraid of them. Sorry you quake in your boots Clete.


Independence, not a muslim idea, their idea is loyalty to an all pervading caliphate.

You broad brush more than a billion people by the actions of a few?


Look Obama is a muslim, as the muslims say once a muslim always a muslim and Obama was educated in Indonesia so he understands it well,

Because he choose to engage instead of cower in fear and hate? Really Clete? Your lack of understanding is fueled by your own FEAR, you big scaredy cat.

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You broad brush more than a billion people by the actions of a few?




It is not just a few. Just look at some of the questions asked on the boards we have here that are part of everyday life but for the muslim it represents a struggle.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/islam/



It is more then just a few it is the many. The few do not represent a majority and that is how power is held.

I could also point out the struggles of non islamics on every other board here CD. What you dismiss as everyday life is most certainly a struggle for many others, no matter the religion, color, or location.

I get your point about theocracy though, if that is your point, and can only say that many in this country would love a theocracy here in America, as recent events have brought to light. The notion of a one religion nation that assimilates all others is hardly new to America.

I could also point out the struggles of non islamics on every other board here CD. What you dismiss as everyday life is most certainly a struggle for many others, no matter the religion, color, or location.

I get your point about theocracy though, if that is your point, and can only say that many in this country would love a theocracy here in America, as recent events have brought to light. The notion of a one religion nation that assimilates all others is hardly new to America.


The struggles of everyday life as we assume it to be arent anywhere near the internal conflict of the muslim. For example most women dont have to struggle with the various choices they make as far as travel or what they wear. That struggle for the American woman is mostly about selfesteem and not about a religion.

When being asked to assimilate it is not about bending culture it is about playing nice with others while keeping your own self intact. It has to do with respect.

That's why I asked what was meant by what was the meaning of assimilation early on, and you seem to be the first to define it as such. Dominance of women by men can be seen in many cultures across the globe, not just with muslim women in the middle east, and not just exclusively against women by men either. Social class even in America causes much strife and conflicts.

Can Saudi Arabia and Syria be any worse than Russia and China? I doubt that seriously.

Can you really say American Muslims are not for the most part playing nice as they can under the circumstances? I think most "not playing nice" is the majority against the minority in almost every place in the world. Or the haves dominating the have NOTS.

When muslims are not in the ascendancy they "play nice" but when they dominate an area things change and they don't deal with the attitudes of their radicals. You have a realively small muslim community but I have seen the development here where you would not have seen a hijab to it being a common sight yet the number of muslims has not grown radically but they have become more radical.