There can be no doubt that a solution to the problems of migration in Europe is needed.

Some arguments that we have seen previously have resurfaced. The NYT took it upon itsself to criticise the successful Australian solution of not allowing those who come illegally to stay, thus depriving the people smugglers who trade in misery and overcrowded boats a market, but such a solution is too radical for a world that is knee deep in migrants or refugees. This is not to say refugees should not be assisted to resettle, but how do you tell the difference between a refugee and an economic migrant in such a confused situation

What is apparent with these peoples is that they are no respecters of borders or of laws. Their mistrust of authority may be well founded but if you go to a different country the first priority is to respect the laws. They have a single minded approach to their destination and are hard to persuade that there might be other solutions.

The thought that keeps exercising my mind is why should Europe be responsible for these people, why shouldn't the cashed up arab countries with whom these people share ethnicity and religion step up and provide for them

Why is it so radical to merely deport anyone who enters a nation illegally. We do not hear a lot of issues of Russia and China having a lot of illegal immigration.

While not a perfect world, China for example, to ride a train or plane, you must show proper legal ID. (Yes everyone of their billion people have a national ID card). IF you want to open a bank account, you must have that ID card. If you want to rent an apartment, you must show that ID card.

So even if someone was here illegally they could almost do nothing.

Its well know here that the New York Times is run and staffed by idiots. Beholden to the DNC who wants illegals voting for them and their Marxist causes illegally...because they can't get enough dead people doing it, and its hard for the living to vote more than 8 or nine times an election.

Illegals should NOT have "Rights" and should be sent back to where they came from...if they are wanted there or not.

I agree that anyone who breaks a law in a country and is not a citizens should be deported but we have the extraordinary rule, no doubt thought up by the UN, that a person should not be returned to danger, therefore a persosn fleeing a war situation cannot be returned to their country of origin. What I don't get and maybe it is because I'm not a muslim is that a person can just make a decision to go to another counrty and they have to be accepted, even without documantation. These Syrians who are arriving in Europe are transitting countries like Turkey where they are not under threat and even have refugee camps but they have the dillusion that things will be better in some far off place. They seem to be under the impression that hundreds of thousands of people can just be accommodated when they arrive. There is an expectation of open doors hospitality which is beyond reasonable. There is no war in afghanistan now and yet Afghans are migrating to Europe

The lefties argue that it's Europe's problem because these are all former colonies.They also make the case that NATOs humanitarian R2P attacks in Libya created the refugee problem in North Africa . However ,this migration problem predates the over throw of Q Daffy.

We have our migration problems to deal with . Seems your laws are more rational .


https://www.google.com/#q=sneakin+into+the+usa

I vote to stop the war. Let Iran have the bomb. An airburst about 80 meters above Tehran would be about right. Then IS can treat radiation sickness rather than apostasy.

The lefties argue that it's Europe's problem because these are all former colonies.They also make the case that NATOs humanitarian R2P attacks in Libya created the refugee problem in North Africa . However ,this migration problem predates the over throw of Q Daffy.

We have our migration problems to deal with . Seems your laws are more rational .


https://www.google.com/#q=sneakin+into+the+usa

Yes our laws are more rational, helped along by our indigenous who wish they had not been so welcoming in the eighteenth century Europe will rue the day they welcomed a muslim population into their midst, what the Ottomans could not do, their great grand children will do.
Cats you are suggesting that airburst in the wrong place, the name of Daesh HQ is Racca and Daesh would treat radiation sickness the way they treat everything else, off with their heads but to stop the flow of refugees you need one over Damascus as well

What I would like to know is how bad is the situation really when the father of the drowned child could take his son back to Korbane for burial. Hundreds of miles back to where he came from and in a few days. There is something very seriel about this crisis

Cats you are suggesting that airburst in the wrong place, the name of Daesh HQ is Racca and Daesh would treat radiation sickness the way they treat everything else, off with their heads but to stop the flow of refugees you need one over Damascus as well

Their military will dry up and blow away without funding. Riyadh and Damascus will shut right down if Tehran stops being the number one target.

Just heard in the news that a Egyptian Billionaire wants to buy a ISLAND to help this refuges in Europe. He is looking into Greece or Italy. He also picked a name for it,
"HOPE".. May be people like Bill Gates can lend him hands to build that ! May be that would be the next Heaven for Immigrant after America..

Then its solved... we round them all up and send them to Egypt.

Because I can tell you...except for the Communists in Italy looking to expand their voting base....nobody else in Italy wants them. And Greece can't pay their own bills.

And Greece can't pay their own bills.

The guy can probably get all of Greece for cheap.

I can't get the imagine of that little dead child on the beach. And then he is in the man's arms.

Cameron has said he will let thousands into the UK, but where will they put them.

My son in Germany told me today that there is a lot of Syrian Immigrants already living there and they are in a small town on the Dutch border.

In Italy a lot of them are committing crimes... theft, robbery, assaults, murder, rapes. Just like they probably did at home.

Just heard in the news that a Egyptian Billionaire wants to buy a ISLAND to help this refuges in Europe. He is looking into Greece or Italy. He also picked a name for it,
"HOPE".. May be people like Bill Gates can lend him hands to build that ! May be that would be the next Heaven for Immigrant after America..

Why does his island have to be in Europe surely there are plenty of Islands going cheap in Asia, Africa or the vast oceans of the world, but it solves nothing because it takes vast resources to construct buildings and inferstructure otherwise you are just transferring the problem, there was an idea floated the other day to fill the empty quarter in Arabia, sounds like a great idea

The 1985 Schengen Agreement, which eliminates border controls among member states will likely be reformed to make room for countries to tighten their border controls . It's another nail in the coffin of the EU which gave up notions of sovereignty .

The 1985 Schengen Agreement, which eliminates border controls among member states will likely be reformed to make room for countries to tighten their border controls . It's another nail in the coffin of the EU which gave up notions of sovereignty .

If you had been in Europe you would know there are no borders, no guardposts, no barriers. It is only on those countries that border a non EU state that any check is made and usually with a stamp of a six months visa. In Basle I crossed the border three times in one night and no one checked anything. It would be like Virginia trying to stop traffic to Washington, utter chaos. At least the UK showed some sense and didn't pass soveriegnty to Brussles. I may have a misunderstanding of the German economy but how can Germany just absorb hundreds of thousands of Syrians at a time when it was baulking at helping out Greece. Where does the instant housing come from? The services? Germany is not a multicultural place. A few years ago they were sending Turks home and complaining about the east germans

It took a long time but the penny has finally dropped in this ME refugee crisis. We should be selective, we should give priority to christians. These are the unwanted people in this crisis, the targets of Daesh and the targets of the various muslim groups. If they are brought here there are supportive groups within the community and they will not be looking back to involve themselves in wars in their former homeland

Operation rescue: the Christians of the Middle East face extinction (http://www.smh.com.au/comment/operation-rescue-the-christians-of-the-middle-east-face-extinction-20150906-gjg9p2.html)

The ethnic cleansing of christians in the ME has been ignored as the world has tried to tackle larger issues and the thousands of refugees in Europe again draw attention away from what is actually happening to minority populations. In the face of a refugee crisis the question also needs to be asked as to how our program appears to be failing, we have quotas that are not being met, has the queue shortened? No, it has gotten longer but the nature of the crisis itsself means that varification of the status of refugees has become harder and the actual intake is much smaller.

It is no wonnder that refugees in Europe are unwilling to wait for the registration process as they are expected to, the bureaucracy has failed, What might sound reasonable with smaller numbers becomes impossible

47785

Thanks for your myoptic vision Tom. I know this issue doesn't affect the US they are just one of the push factors, don't fall off that pedistal

we are probably going to take in somewhere's around 75,000 refugees from Syria alone . So get off your high horse. We already are inundated with refugees from Somalia...some of whom have travelled overseas to join Jihadistan once they became American citizens .... and many more are significantly changing the culture of towns like Dearborn Michigan as they insist that we assimilate to their culture instead of the reverse.

Tom bless you, you do care after all, but then you have a long history of filling your country with unwanted people and of course, rejecting many. Look I do hope you fill your country with muslims then you will understand the problem, so how about you organise an flotilla of small boats to ferry them across the atlantic once Germany decides it has made a mistake

you have a long history of filling your country with unwanted peoplethe trick is to fill the country with freedom loving industrious people who share the values of America. We took in over a million Vietnamese and have had no issues.

I don't think you will get the same bargain with Syrians, but try anyway

I don't think you will get the same bargain with Syrians, but try anyway
I would restrict it to Christians, Yazidis ,and Kurds being persecuted . But that's just me .

How would you know who is who?

Tal you simply give the Muslim greating, a muslim is bound to reply as to a Christian well I don't think a muslim can testify to the saving grace of Jesus Christ, as for kurds they are not arabs so a little racial profiling may do the trick unless it is of course that americans are unskilled in racial profiling, such as asking to speak to muhhamed. It's easy anyone named muhammed or ali to the back of the queue

It seems that persecuted minorities are in demand, read Christians, with Australia saying priority will be give to these groups, which puts the sunni and shiites to the end of the queue and it you are similar mind then the muslims will be left to fight with each other, which I think is the current strategy. I think we have all gotten to the point where there must be true affinity with migrant groups for it to work, otherwise we are just importing the old arguments, personally I couldn't care less whether Ali is the annointed first imam or last iman or cousin of mudhatmad or not

You would make a great ambassador tying yourself in knots to discriminate using your own tired notions as a starting point to unravel this logistics nightmare. An interesting twist you present on the old "If you're white you're right; if you're brown stick around; but if you're black get back!".

For sure you have to treat the millions running from war better than cattle, and feed and shelter them as a start to a bigger process, be they Christian, Arab, or whatever.

For sure you have to treat the millions running from war better than cattle, and feed and shelter them as a start to a bigger process, be they Christian, Arab, or whatever.

Have you seen the footage? They have been behaving like cattle, blocking roads and showing no respect. Who invades someoneelse's country and is allowed to get away with it. These people have come from safe havens, as you can find with the parent of the small child who was lost, they are economic migrants. I can understand their motivations. They are already saying this will change Germany, on wonders how long before anti semitism rises in Germany again

Who will the EU reject? Right now there is a wave of euphoria as Germany and France undertake to accept large number of refugees. However the attitude of some in Europe is already evident. Greece is staggering under the weight of migrants in places like Lesbos. Footage of a Hungarian abusing migrants has emerged. When the dust clears and there are actually hundreds of thousands of migrants to be accommodated, fed and employed who will be allowed to stay? The disruption in parts of Europe must already be staggering. The lesson of France with its millions of Muslims as an underclass has not been learned. The European President is looking to enforce quotas on EU countries even though the migrants look only to Germany, so what will happen when the migrants are forced to go to places they didn't intend? How will they identify the Daesh infiltrators?

Economic migrants will be returned just as they are now. Australia says it will accept persecuted minorities from the middle east, so will Britain but that means those who are already in Europe won't be considered for those places, proving once again it doesn't pay to listern to the people smugglers and jump the queue. Not all of these people are Syrian although many will claim they are

Surely we have reach the time when there should be less talk and more action starting with the removal of the Assard regime and then an all out assault on Daesh

You are 5 years to late Clete. One also wonders why those immigrants are running away from the enemy instead of fighting. Surely even ISIS could not withstand the millions who ran at them instead of away from them.

Should have let Obama blow Assad away when he had his hand on the trigger.

Should have let Obama blow Assad away when he had his hand on the trigger.

Who stopped him ? He drew a red line in the sand and then backed off when Vladdy the Conquerer told him to.

the trick is to fill the country with freedom loving industrious people who share the values of America. We took in over a million Vietnamese and have had no issues.


I wouldnt say no issues. There was a lot of background noise and rumblings that were going on. Many people didnt like the fact that they received preffered status in getting jobs and those jobs were at the cost of American ones. Also how supplemented they were. Integration wasnt as smooth on the homefront either as many that came over considered the family dog or cat a delicacy. It made for odd times and a lot of missing animals.

You make an interesting point Tal but arabs have proven they are better at running away than fighting, no, these people won't resist to the point of death, those who will are already fighting, but they also know because they have been there that Turkey is involved in this, so why would they fight just to give the country to Turkey. I expect they have had enough of the double game being played here.

The Syrian crisis was five years ago, it has now become the european crisis and the arab spring has become the european winter

Just echoing a thought or two doing the rounds on FacebooK

If you look at the pictures of war in Iraq and Syria you observe very low tech transport and large numbers of women and children, if you observe the pictures of migrants in Europe you observe large numbers of men and high tech transport. What is wrong with these pictures? Well usually in a war we leave the women and children in a safe place and go to war but today the Syrians leave the women and children in a war zone and go to a safe place. I think that Europe should enlist and send every single man back to fight in their own country. This would quickly end the war and the flow of migrants

I wouldnt say no issues. There was a lot of background noise and rumblings that were going on. Many people didnt like the fact that they received preffered status in getting jobs and those jobs were at the cost of American ones. Also how supplemented they were. Integration wasnt as smooth on the homefront either as many that came over considered the family dog or cat a delicacy. It made for odd times and a lot of missing animals.

ok short term issue. A million refugees were integrated . I am not aware of any long term issue the like we will get with Muslim enclaves inside the country who refuse assimilation for religious reasons .

You make an interesting point Tal but arabs have proven they are better at running away than fighting


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Yarmouk


This was a complete victory for the Arab forces . But there was a moment when they fell into retreat ....here is the account "


Despite stiff resistance, the warriors of Yazid on the left flank finally fell back to their camps and for a moment Vahan's plan appeared to be succeeding. The centre of the Muslim army was pinned down and its flanks had been pushed back. However, neither flank had broken, though their morale was severely damaged. The retreating Muslim army was met by the ferocious Arab women in the camps. Led by Hind, the Muslim women dismantled their tents and armed with tent poles charged at their husbands and fellow men singing an improvised song from the Battle of Uhud (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/wiki/Battle_of_Uhud) that then had been directed against the Muslims.
O you who run from a constant woman
Who has both beauty and virtue;
And leave her to the infidel,
The hated and evil infidel,To possess, disgrace and ruin.
This boiled the blood of the retreating Muslims so much that they returned to the battlefield.

Frustration is understandable Tom when the ones you want assimilated don't want to be, but FORCING them will only bring more resistance. Any expectations of Complete Assimilation is unrealistic at best.

@Clete, be nice if the able bodied young men among the migrating throngs could be trained to HELP defend their homeland in exchange for the security, and welfare of their families and loved ones in their safe haven destinations.

My count comes to more than a million man count. More if you include the ones from Joudan and Lebanon and other places in the ME.

ok short term issue. A million refugees were integrated . I am not aware of any long term issue the like we will get with Muslim enclaves inside the country who refuse assimilation for religious reasons .

Take a look a France Tom a lot of no go areas there


Frustration is understandable Tom when the ones you want assimilated don't want to be, but FORCING them will only bring more resistance. Any expectations of Complete Assimilation is unrealistic at best.

@Clete, be nice if the able bodied young men among the migrating throngs could be trained to HELP defend their homeland in exchange for the security, and welfare of their families and loved ones in their safe haven destinations.

My count comes to more than a million man count. More if you include the ones from Joudan and Lebanon and other places in the ME.

Tal the point is if they would fight the war would have over long ago, like all wars we can echo churchills words "never... have so many owed so much to so few"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Yarmouk


This was a complete victory for the Arab forces . But there was a moment when they fell into retreat ....here is the account "

Perhaps they should train the women

Take a look a France Tom a lot of no go areas there

The French don't give them the option to assimilate . That is true of most of the continent . But there is a more fundamental problem with Europe. The Europeans have a negative replacement rate and the only place they can turn for population is parts of the world where the people don't want to become European in any meaningful sense .

The angel of the Lord also said to her:“You are now pregnant
and you will give birth to a son.
You shall name him Ishmael,
for the Lord has heard of your misery.

He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone's hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
towardall his brothers.” Gen 16:11-12

The continent will be over-whelmed and conquered .

Nothing like taking a verse out of context

Nothing like taking a verse out of context

Nahh ,if I was taking it out of context then I would think Ishmael a "donkey of a man " to mean he's a Democrat .


But yeah I should've used the sentence before that verse to put it in complete context :

The angel added, “I will increase your descendants so much that they will be too numerous to count.”

U.S. to accept 10,000 Syrian refugees: White House (http://news.yahoo.com/obama-wants-u-prepare-10-000-syrian-refugees-172337928.html)

I just saw this in news.

Yes the US has indicated a willingness to help, they would be a bigger help with boots on the ground to prevent the problem in the first place. The thing is that most countries are involved in tokenism because they just don't have the financial resources to deal with the millions of refugeees throughout the world. New refugees are being made faster than there are places for them. Because of worldwide jihadism refugees are not accepted at face value, they must prove who they are, a process that takes a long time if they can accomplish it at all. My own nations intake has fallen short of quotas two years running because of this problem adding to the number of refugees remaining in camps

10,000 and at least half of them are Muslim extremists... a few of them are either Al Qaeda or ISIS members... and if ONE person dies as a result of letting any of them in.. their blood is on Obamas hands... but then... he's such a narcissist. He would blame it on Bush.

smoothy I have heard the US is the most difficult place to be accepted as a refugee you have more chance of taking a holiday to mexico and crossing the border than to gain entry to the US as a refugee, but you are right they are likely to be muslims with a long history of suffering under war and oppression, not ideal citizens

Obama will force his flunkies to wave them through... just like all the untreated disease ridden kids he send to schools all over the country despite refusals by the State governors.. and often without their knowledge.

Some of them will probably carry RPG's in without being physically searched. OR even have their backgrounds checked. Because they are his muslim brothers.

Don't let rhetoric get the better of you, undoubtedly there are patriots in your public service who will do their duty and after all he is a dead duck now so his edits carry less weight. Have you noticed he didn't do a Libya on Syria after reflection of how destabilising his dictator hunt had been. We have to resign ourselves that there is no substitute for boots on the ground no matter how unpalitable this is to our respective governments

Don't let rhetoric get the better of you, undoubtedly there are patriots in your public service who will do their duty and after all he is a dead duck now so his edits carry less weight. Have you noticed he didn't do a Libya on Syria after reflection of how destabilising his dictator hunt had been. We have to resign ourselves that there is no substitute for boots on the ground no matter how unpalitable this is to our respective governmentsWe would hope... but that's not the case under Obama....anyone that speaks up is fired.

THe fact is when those swarms of disease infected kids was spread around the country and forced into our schools. Most of the Governors of those states found out about it on the news. Because legally they DO have the right to refuse.

There is such a thing as too much government and I think you suffer from it. There might have been reason for so many state and local governments once but today communications have eliminated such a need. Don't know how it works there but our states are responsible for service delivery, meaning it is difficult to bypass them. The state governments are not tame puppets. When this next wave of refugees arrive the states will be consulted, in fact I think they will be heading to the west, far from the maddening crowd and established migrant communities

they would be a bigger help with boots on the ground to prevent the problem in the first place. it should've been apparent from the day the emperor did not enforce his red line threat that he had no intention of doing any meaningful military action in the ME on his watch; regardless of the justification.



There is such a thing as too much government and I think you suffer from it. finally you admit it!

Tom I have never said that all wisdom belongs with government and in some places there is certainly too much government, however we elect politicians to get a job done, sometimes we give them the resources to do it sometimes we don't. This expectation that government can do everything and yet the population not be taxed is ridiculous. You expect that capitalism can do what government cannot, but it is more the case that government must do what capitalism will not

Germany finally says enough is enough and reinstitutes border controls..

Germany reinstates border controls over refugee surge (http://news.yahoo.com/munich-buckles-under-strain-refugee-influx-033651158.html)

That's what Everyone should do...send them all back to Muslim countries...let them take care of their own.

Hi Smoothy I agree, these people have no respect, the arrogance that they think they can just walk in and dictate where they will live astounds me. Germany created the situation through lax laws but still enough is enough. We had the same situation here with the boats and had to stop it, if it hadn't been for the water crossing we would have had the same problem years ago. The idea of ads in the source country works, you have to show up the lies the people smugglers are telling. Europe will learn that the only way to deal with these problems is in the country of origin. Stop the war and the problem will go away in time. The UNHCR should spend more time dealing with the cause of the problem and repatriating the refugees rather than trying to push the problem to others. We have seen it ourselves when you send these people where they don't want to go they will opt for repatriation. To me that means things can't be that bad where they came from. If the boats were pushed back to Turkey, I wounder what Turkey would do?

They won't look after their own because when it comes down to it the muslim countries are in the arid part of the world, they cannot accommodate more people but they have the financial resources to do more, let them build some cities for these people instead of architectural wonders in the Gulf

I agree.. Germany and the rest of Europe created this environment... so they are not without blame for causing it in the first place.

I agree.. Germany and the rest of Europe created this environment... so they are not without blame for causing it in the first place.
Is everyone "migrating" because of the war(s)? I've gotten the impression at least some are just wanting a better life, better jobs, better medical care. The majority of these "migrants" is males between 18-35 or so. A front-page birds-eye photo showed a long column of males. I couldn't find children or women in the photo. Of course, it's the grandmothers and pregnant women and people in wheelchairs and crying children that we see on TV. An article in today's paper told of many youngish guys who are using social media, cellphones, GPS, etc. to track the weather conditions, find trustworthy smugglers, reserve seats on buses, etc.

Prime age and gender for Jihadi Terrorists...

There isn't enough work for Europeans that belong there... the unemployment rate for under 30 year olds is sky high everywhere there. And its really high by our standards for the over 30 crowd too.

Germany has a high participation rate but why don't they just import workers from the eastern EU states where there is unemployment rather than throwing the door open to refugees. No doubt there will be jihadists who will take advantage of the open borders. The influx of refugees just makes the unemployment issue harder for all the EU countries

We have seen the debacle on the Hungarian border, we have seen the debacle on the Croatian border, we have seen the debacle on the Slovakian border and the thought comes is this the same people shunting from one place to another who haven't got the message yet. Borders exist for a reason, this isn't a world village with one world government. We are yet to hear about conditions in Germany or Italy but coping with thousands of new arrivals... There are some good news stories in this but they are few. One gets resettled while thousands stand in the rain. Meanwhile the powers, for want of a better name, are coming to the conclusion that the Assard they know is a better option. Could Putin be right after all, perish the thought, but he sees that to end this there has to be more happening at the sharp end than training a few rag tag terrorists, there is no Taliban to turn to in Syria

Putin is looking out for Russian national interests . He sees a weakness because of the emperor's retreat and is trying to re-assert Russia'a influence that they lost when Sadat kicked them out of Egypt. The Assads were his remaining ally ;and yes I give him credit for standing by his ally . That's more than the emperor has done.
Look around the region and all you find are the discarded remains of American allies . The Israels ...stabbed in the back ... the Kurds ...stabbed in the back .The Sunni States ....stabbed in the back . The Anbar Sunnis in Iraq ...stabbed in the back. Why would any of them trust us ? The emperor wonders why he can't find a "Free Syrian Army " ($500 million spent and only 5 FSA fighters remain)? Bin Laden called it the respect for the strong horse . We have not acted like one .

The emperor wants a Shia axis hegemon in the region . That is why he pushed so hard for the nuke deal with the 12ers in Tehran . Putin is just maneuvering to fill the vacuum .
Next week Putin will bring this gambit to the UN . The Euroweenies will gladly go along with it because they will believe that Russian intervention will begin to stem the flow of refugees. The quid pro quo will be European acceptance of Novorossiya in Ukraine . What Putin won't mention is how many of those refugees left Syria escaping the Assad butchery.

Bet Putin is quaking in his boots now !

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-to-nominate-first-openly-gay-service-secretary-to-lead-the-army/2015/09/18/d4b1aafe-5e30-11e5-8e9e-dce8a2a2a679_story.html


Fanning will be the perfect enforcer of all the emperor's pink lines in the sand .

Bet Putin is quaking in his boots now !

He doesn't look like a scared bunny to me, I would say he recognises that should Europe close its borders those muslims will head north. Putin will demonstrate Russian capability, he has forgotten the lesson of Afghanistan, it is one thing to be an arms supplier, quite another to be a mercenary. With US aircraft in the air he has the opportunity to demonstrate Russian superiority, Personally I don't get all the argy bargy, let the arabs settle the problem in their traditional way, they will tire of it

By the way have you noted that lines in the sand don't last?