My friend, who was 15 weeks pregnant, went to the hospital, the day before yesterday, because she was spotting and had cramps.

They hospitalised her and gave her suppositores and capsules to stop the labor. Her cervix had shrunk from 4 cm till 1,5 cm. After it would have been stretched out again, they would put a band around it.

But the cramps got worse and worse.

When her water broke yesterday, they tried to stop the labor with an IV.

But shouldn't they have put her on an IV to stop the labor that from the start?

Her son, seemed perfectly healthy. But now he is dead:-(.

They suspect that she suffers from cervical incompetence.

I think that he could be saved if they started an IV right away as soon as she came to the hospital. Am I wrong?

I am not a doctor or a nurse or something.

Are you sure you mean FIFTEEN WEEKS pregnant ? Owing to the rest of your post, this does not seem plausible.

Are you sure you mean FIFTEEN WEEKS pregnant ? Owing to the rest of your post, this does not seem plausible.

Yes, I am absolutely sure, why?

This baby was even conceived with IVF, so there is no doubt about that. Untill the miscarriage my friend didn't know that this was a boy or girl.

15 weeks? That is only barely outside of the 1st trimester.

A few things to remember, I apologize for being harsh but it is required:
1). This is NONE of your business. This is her business and her business alone. You SHOULD NOT be poking your nose into this. You are taking liberties with her and her condition that you really shouldn't be. Back off and give her the support she needs, not trying to dissect who did what. That is not your role. You are to provide a shoulder to cry on, hot tea, maybe wine, or whatever. This isn't your fight. Stay out of it. You're support THAT IS IT! What you think matters not at all.

2). You're not a nurse, doctor, or have any formal medical education. You can't hope to understand what is going on and why the doctors did what they did when they did. You have to have faith that they reacted the best way possible to primarily save the life of your friend, not you, and secondarily the life of her unborn child. You cannot fathom all that is going on. There could be a lot of reason with respect to the drug interactions that could have caused the death of the mother as well as the child. You can't assume that if they'd started the I've sooner then the pregnancy would have survived.

3). Miscarriages happen and it can be impossible to know why. Some potential causes:
- Trauma to the uterus (Falling down stairs)
- Genetic issues. If the body can tell that the child might not survive it's going to conserve resources and self-terminate the pregnancy. Some genetic disorders are so severe that there is no chance of survival, in womb or out.
- The internal disruptions. (abortion
- body cant' sustain the pregnancy.
- Random issue that no one can explain.
Chances are there was NOTHING they could have done to save the pregnancy.

As far as you should be concerned, nothing concerning the details of what happen matter except for the fact that it happened. Give your friend a hug, a glass of hot cocca, and watch a movie with her.

I apologize for the harshness, but you're putting your nose where it doesn't belong.

15 weeks? That is only barely outside of the 1st trimester.

A few things to remember, I apologize for being harsh but it is required:
1). This is NONE of your business. This is her business and her business alone. You SHOULD NOT be poking your nose into this. You are taking liberties with her and her condition that you really shouldn't be. Back off and give her the support she needs, not trying to dissect who did what. That is not your role. You are to provide a shoulder to cry on, hot tea, maybe wine, or whatever. This isn't your fight. Stay out of it. You're support THAT IS IT! What you think matters not at all.

2). You're not a nurse, doctor, or have any formal medical education. You can't hope to understand what is going on and why the doctors did what they did when they did. You have to have faith that they reacted the best way possible to primarily save the life of your friend, not you, and secondarily the life of her unborn child. You cannot fathom all that is going on. There could be a lot of reason with respect to the drug interactions that could have caused the death of the mother as well as the child. You can't assume that if they'd started the I've sooner then the pregnancy would have survived.

3). Miscarriages happen and it can be impossible to know why. Some potential causes:
- Trauma to the uterus (Falling down stairs)
- Genetic issues. If the body can tell that the child might not survive it's going to conserve resources and self-terminate the pregnancy. Some genetic disorders are so severe that there is no chance of survival, in womb or out.
- The internal disruptions. (abortion
- body cant' sustain the pregnancy.
- Random issue that no one can explain.
Chances are there was NOTHING they could have done to save the pregnancy.

As far as you should be concerned, nothing concerning the details of what happen matter except for the fact that it happened. Give your friend a hug, a glass of hot cocca, and watch a movie with her.

I apologize for the harshness, but you're putting your nose where it doesn't belong.

This is my best friend! She wants to talk with me about these things. She herself wonders why and what happened. This was a pregnancy conceived in IVF, she even asked my opinion about which clinic. She Whatsapped me updates from a pregnancy app. She even asked my input on whether to buy a real Maxicosy, or one from another brand. She wants me to listen and to help her think, because she is a single woman, without a partner to discuss all of this with. She even apped me pictures of her son. I am not poking my nose in anything, I am empathising. I am a real intimate friend, for 23 years now and if the tables were turned, she would have known every single detail about me as well.

We have a friendship in which we discuss almost everything.

When I had my autism diagnosis, she also looked things up on the internet and discussed them with me. That is what we both do.

I said that I am not a nurse or a doctor. We are all just trying to wrap our heads around what happened. Today another friend, asked me the same questions. There is nothing wrong with having questions and seeking answers. My other friend also asked why they didn't put her on an IV rightaway.

She wants you to listen and to have a shoulder to lean on. I went through a miscarriage with my wife so I understand the emotional aspects of this. But NO ONE except a medical professional who has reviewed the charts kept during the procedure can make a judgment on whether the medical staff could have prevented it or not. If she thinks she did not receive proper care then tell her to talk to a medical malpractice attorney who can review the charts. Tell her that you no one can answer those questions for her.

While it is true there is nothing wrong with having questions there IS something wrong with speculation and accusations. And that's what you are doing.

The person she should be asking is her doctor. You need to step back from this.

She wants you to listen and to have a shoulder to lean on. I went through a miscarriage with my wife so I understand the emotional aspects of this. But NO ONE except a medical professional who has reviewed the charts kept during the procedure can make a judgment on whether the medical staff could have prevented it or not. If she thinks she did not receive proper care then tell her to talk to a medical malpractice attorney who can review the charts. Tell her that you no one can answer those questions for her.

While it is true there is nothing wrong with having questions there IS something wrong with speculation and accusations. And that's what you are doing.

Well. My friend lives in a developing country and five years ago one of our friends actually died after giving birth to her second child. The doctors couldn't explain what happened. In that country there are no malpractice attorneys. My friend seriously thought about going abroad to conceive, I live in a developed country.

My father even moved from there to here, because of the bad healthcare, he needed a stemcelltransplant and that is something that can't be done there. My friend advised me to advise my parents to come here and so I did. My parents don't even know that is was her idea instead of mine, because they don't like that I discuss everything with her. Unfortunately my father got in remission, but got ill again and died. He discussed the possibility with his doctor there about coming here and his doctor even said, if you have the possibillity to go elsewhere, just go. He needed a chemo, but the country was out of the chemo that he needed. I have send medicines more than once to that country. I lived there as a teen and they didn't even had tampons! So my aunt send them to me. There were no onions, no milk. Often there is even no electricity. And if you don't install your own waterpump, you just don't have water during the day. I have stood inline for hours, to fill up the tank with gasoline, because there was a shortage of that too.

My friend had to wait one month extra to start her second IVF round because there were no medicines. She then ordered them here and had them delivered here, because her uncle was visiting and took them with him for her.

I know multiple children, including my own cousin, that were born here, just to prevent anything going wrong there.

So essentially the question boils down to, would they have treated her the same way in a developed country? That is the reason why we are suspicious of what happens there. My friend is seriously thinking about moving to another country for the better healthcare and she wouldn't be the first to take that step.


The person she should be asking is her doctor. You need to step back from this.

She is suspicious of her doctor. You can read why we are all suspicious of the healthcare in this developing country at another answer that I replied to.

Here is reality... women sometimes dies before, during or after childbirth. Sometimes the babies die before, during or after. Anywhere in the developed or undeveloped world. And most of the time... its nobodies fault.

The rate of miscarriages is what it is... doesn't matter if it was natural or in-vitro. If she had to have an in-vitro its possible she was already at a higher risk because of fertility issues. Miscarriages usually happen when something goes wrong in the development of the fetus. Sometimes its caused by other causes.

Sure she had a BETTER chance in a developed country... but those same things happen here in them too... maybe just at somewhat lower rates.

And above all, we really know nothing about HER medical condition... its also very possible due to her own medical issues pregnancies for her might carry a higher at-risk rate than average.

And also...in developed countries...we also have our share of issues with doctors that should have taken up a different career field early in college.

Here is reality... women sometimes dies before, during or after childbirth. Sometimes the babies die before, during or after. Anywhere in the developed or undeveloped world. And most of the time... its nobodies fault.

The rate of miscarriages is what it is... doesn't matter if it was natural or in-vitro. If she had to have an in-vitro its possible she was already at a higher risk because of fertility issues. Miscarriages usually happen when something goes wrong in the development of the fetus. Sometimes its caused by other causes.

Sure she had a BETTER chance in a developed country... but those same things happen here in them too... maybe just at somewhat lower rates.

And above all, we really know nothing about HER medical condition... its also very possible due to her own medical issues pregnancies for her might carry a higher at-risk rate than average.

And also...in developed countries...we also have our share of issues with doctors that maybe should have taken up a different career field early in college.

Okay, you all don't know as much as I do of course. And yes, things go wrong here as well. But here you can go to court and get to the bottom of everything. There doctors are like Gods.

My friend had IVF because she had endometriosis. Her eggcells weren't able to travel themselves from her ovary to her uterus, because of a blockage. According to the gynecologists after 12 weeks or so, her pregnancy was just like any other pregnancy. Up until that point she had to take medicines to prevent a miscarriage.

My friend is now contemplating about trying again there, or coming here, or going elsewhere. Here it is three times as expensive and she also needs plaintickets. She doesn't know what the better choice is. Her colleague came here and now has twins. Here there is the possibility of freezing in embryo's, they don't have it there. In another country they have assisted hatching. She is going all over the internet over all kind of fertility forums and often shares her findings with me. We even discussed spermdonors.

But thank you all for your answers. My opinion at this point is that I don't see a need for her to go abroad. I was suspicious, but elsewhere I also got explained why the doctors couldn't fight the labor to aggresively: because they would endanger my friends life herself. She also bled a lot and that was exactly what I heard elsewhere.

The problem is, that everybody automatically thinks that it went wrong because of the bad healthcare in that developing country, but after discussing all of this, I am starting to believe that she had the proper healthcare in this case:-).

When I moved to that country as a teenager, my orthodontist was also worried, if there would even be proper orthodontists over there. So this just is a country of which the public opinion isn't good.

Once when I went there, on a vacation, I went to get some vaccinations and anti-malaria medicine from our public health authority. The doctor told me not to drink water from the fosset. I said what, the water is fine! She said, you don't know where the water comes from, it might come from a well, so at least boil it first. I really got mad. I said I lived there, I am going to stay at my parents house, I know where my parents get their water from: from the water supply system! And with the waterpump that my parents had installed, they could get water from it all day (unless when the power went out of course), so I knew that the water really wasn't a healthrisk. But I was really offended that that doctor from the public health authority thought so little of my parent's country. I know better, but she can scare other tourists away!

I also saw a consumer show on television. A student went there for a interimship and took anti-malaria medicine for six months, which resulted in a psychosis. But malaria isn't endemic in the city, only in the jungle! So his doctor was misinformed, which resulted in a psychosis.

I once got dengue there. The country really has it's health risks. But the doctors here, are scaring people unnecesarilly:-(.

No, I have no idea why you think going to court gets to the bottom of anything. This sounds more like someone who see's a paycheck from a dead baby. When someone considers suing for things that just happen one has to consider the motives.

Did she have her own doctor come and see her at the hospital, or just a ER doctor who may be great with gun shoots but does not do babies often?

I will agree, your position would be to give her comfort and listen and let her grieve not try to build some imaginary killing of the baby that will only cause her more and more problems. You are doing a real dis-service for a friend. I am glad I do not have friends like you.

In a court of law, there is no finding the truth. There is only evidence that you have to discover on your own.

If the doctor at the hospital, followed normal procedure there is no case. If from what they saw, they can not tell about future issues.

This is my profession.

It appears nothing was done wrong. At 15 weeks there is little we can do to prevent this from happening. I would have started an IV, but it would only be to keep the patient hydrated, it wouldn't change the outcome.

J_9 response reminded me. You appear to not understand what an IV is. IV simply means intravenous. It is a way to deliver nutrients and medication directly into the patient's system. What I think you are thinking of is a plastic bag hanging from a stand that delivers a saline solution to keep the patient hydrated. There is generally a valve on the tube for delivering medications. So whether an IV was used or not is not the question to ask. Whether the patient was dehydrated or whether a medication was needed is the question. And it is a question that should only be asked by a medical professional.

Thanks for the clarification Scott.

One of the medications I administer through the IV is Magnesium Sulfate. This can stop the labor so that the pregnancy progresses. However, it is not given at 15 weeks gestation. It is used further along in the pregnancy when the fetus has reached viability.

It appears, from your description, that nothing was done inappropriately.

This is my profession.

It appears nothing was done wrong. At 15 weeks there is little we can do to prevent this from happening. I would have started an IV, but it would only be to keep the patient hydrated, it wouldn't change the outcome.

Thank you.


Thanks for the clarification Scott.

One of the medications I administer through the IV is Magnesium Sulfate. This can stop the labor so that the pregnancy progresses. However, it is not given at 15 weeks gestation. It is used further along in the pregnancy when the fetus has reached viability.

It appears, from your description, that nothing was done inappropriately.

Thank you.


J_9 response reminded me. You appear to not understand what an IV is. IV simply means intravenous. It is a way to deliver nutrients and medication directly into the patient's system. What I think you are thinking of is a plastic bag hanging from a stand that delivers a saline solution to keep the patient hydrated. There is generally a valve on the tube for delivering medications. So whether an IV was used or not is not the question to ask. Whether the patient was dehydrated or whether a medication was needed is the question. And it is a question that should only be asked by a medical professional.

My idea is that medicine administered through that plastic bag, works faster and more effective than medicine taken orally or anally.


No, I have no idea why you think going to court gets to the bottom of anything. This sounds more like someone who see's a paycheck from a dead baby. When someone considers suing for things that just happen one has to consider the motives.

Did she have her own doctor come and see her at the hospital, or just a ER doctor who may be great with gun shoots but does not do babies often?

I will agree, your position would be to give her comfort and listen and let her grieve not try to build some imaginary killing of the baby that will only cause her more and more problems. You are doing a real dis-service for a friend. I am glad I do not have friends like you.

In a court of law, there is no finding the truth. There is only evidence that you have to discover on your own.

If the doctor at the hospital, followed normal procedure there is no case. If from what they saw, they can not tell about future issues.

Her own gynaecologist was on vacation, but she saw two of his colleague that work in the same hospital.

I resent the comment about doing my friend a disservice. Not all friendships are alike. My best friend and I like to speculate. My babysister for example doesn't. But just because you wouldn't appreciate sometheing, doesn't make it a universal truth that I am a bad friend. If I were your friend and you didn't want me involved, I would respect that. I am a good friend and I behave the way the person it involves wants me to behave.

My idea is that medicine administered through that plastic bag, works faster and more effective than medicine taken orally or anally.

Not necessarily. The medications work differently and each one is used for different circumstances. The medication used anally can be more effective quicker than the IV melds under the right conditions. Cytotec/Mistoprolol is one I give anally quite frequently for post partum hemorrhage, for example, and works much faster than any IV medication.

I I think you are being a good friend trying to help her understand what happened, and helping her find closure.

Yes, I am absolutely sure, why?

l

Because as Crave mentioned, this is barely out of the first trimester. In vitro has nothing to do with how long she carried the fetus.

Upon catching up here, I realize they were trying to prevent a miscarriage.

Not necessarily. The medications work differently and each one is used for different circumstances. The medication used anally can be more effective quicker than the IV melds under the right conditions. Cytotec/Mistoprolol is one I give anally quite frequently for post partum hemorrhage, for example, and works much faster than any IV medication.

I I think you are being a good friend trying to help her understand what happened, and helping her find closure.

Thank you. I just watched the video of the funeral that she send me, it really made me cry. I just spoke to her, via Skype, fortunately they do have internet there. She told me that the OBGN that helped her through this ordeal told her that she will be mad with him, with all the doctors, with herself, that that is normal in cases like this. It is part of the process.

Fortunately the hospital does provide very good grief counseling, which surprises both of us. They really helped her planning the funeral as personal as possible. Unfortunately she hadn't bought anything yet, to bury her son with. She wanted to know the sex, before she would start shopping for clothes.

Normal the funeral director will have clothes that is furnished. I know for premature babies, they have them special made.

Normal the funeral director will have clothes that is furnished. I know for premature babies, they have them special made.

In this developing country, they hadn't. My friend buried her son in a blanket. She also had to bury him in two days, because they can't preserve a foetus as long as they can preserve a fully developed person.

Here if you bury someone, the cascet has stuffing from it self, in that country, you need to stuff it with old clothes, so that the deceased lies high enough. It really is shocking how backwards they are there, regarding some things. I often got really shocked because of things that aren't arranged or available there.

What developing country is this ? There is reason why you can't mention it.

Phoenix, Arizona. Just wondering.. Hospital saved after DNC was done? Humm... Unheard off..
Anyway.. It is nice DEVELOPING Country...

What developing country is this ? There is reason why you can't mention it.





Phoenix, Arizona. Just wondering.. Hospital saved after DNC was done? Humm... Unheard off..
Anyway.. It is nice DEVELOPING Country...

Phoenix, Arizona is not a country, much less a developing country. It is a state in the United States.


Just wondering.. Hospital saved after DNC was done?.

The hospital saved what after the DNC was done?

What developing country is this ? There is reason why you can't mention it.

Yes, I am trying to protect my friends privacy, because it is a small country. I will try to send you a private message.

What developing country is this ? There is reason why you can't mention it.

I don't see a way in which I can't send you a private message, but this country isn't in the US. They don't have malaria and dengue there right? And it is a developing country, in the tropics and that is all that I am willing to say out in the open to protect my friends privacy.

If there is a way in which I can reach you privately, please let me know.

What is a DNC?

Yes, I am trying to protect my friends privacy, because it is a small country. I will try to send you a private message.

And well you should but we don't know who she is, so she is not in jeopardy.




What is a DNC?

It is a cleaning out of the uterus, or curetage, after a miscarriage or abortion.

Not DNC but D&C, dilation and curettage.

And well you should but we don't know who she is, so she is not in jeopardy.



It is a cleaning out of the uterus, or curetage, after a miscarriage or abortion.

Yes, she had a curetage immediately afterwards. Isn't there a way in which I can send you a private message?

I am afraid that if I post the name of the country and someone from this country reads this, they will know exactly who I am talking about.

I find it highly unlikely your friend is in an absolutely unique situation... even in her country. Worst case it would only appear to be a similar situation as someone else. Absolutely impossible to positively identify her... PARTICULARLY in a developing third world country.

I find it highly unlikely your friend is in an absolutely unique situation... even in her country. Worst case it would only appear to be a similar situation as someone else. Absolutely impossible to positively identify her... PARTICULARLY in a developing third world country.

My friend is a highly educated professional, this country does has acces to the internet and a lot of people, that also have internet acces know her. In a small community like that, people are quickly on television and in newspapers.

There is only one IVF lab and only rich people can afford IVF there, the common man can't afford it. So yes, she is probably the only miscarriage from a pregnancy that started in IVF.

Her location is not important. It appears she got the proper treatment. There is nothing more that can be said or done at this point.

Her location is not important. It appears she got the proper treatment. There is nothing more that can be said or done at this point.

Thank you. That is all that I wanted to know.

I can't imagine dressing a 15 week fetus. Or having an open casket.

But that's beside the issue of what your friend's future might be. I find it frustrating that you ask about suing doctors in the same breath as saying that it's cheaper in her country. If IVF is new or uncommon or both there, then she would either not have it, would save for those plane tickets and higher costs elsewhere, or would stop thinking about suing. She would research success rates with each clinic or hospital or individual doctor too, no matter where she goes. She would weigh all the data and risks (obviously things can go wrong no matter how much you spend).

MANY THANKS TO J_9 for being here, giving valuable information, and soothing words as well.

I can't imagine dressing a 15 week fetus. Or having an open casket.

But that's beside the issue of what your friend's future might be. I find it frustrating that you ask about suing doctors in the same breath as saying that it's cheaper in her country. If IVF is new or uncommon or both there, then she would either not have it, would save for those plane tickets and higher costs elsewhere, or would stop thinking about suing. She would research success rates with each clinic or hospital or individual doctor too, no matter where she goes. She would weigh all the data and risks (obviously things can go wrong no matter how much you spend).

MANY THANKS TO J_9 for being here, giving valuable information, and soothing words as well.

I never talked about suing myself. Someone else stated that if my friend has doubts, she should hire a malpractise lawyer and I only stated that that is impossible in that developing country. She never thought about suing either, my friend and I never discussed suing anybody, all we talked about if it would be worth it to go elsewhere. She did research succes rates etc. The best were in Dusseldorf, Germany, but there they only take patients in a durable relationship and since she is single, that is not an option for her. That is where they provide the assisted hatching.