What lies ahead as the ultimate destiny of the soul?

HANK :)

There is no "ultimate" destiny, because as you well know, all time is now.
Eternity is the eternal now so how can there be anything ultimate or final?
I think this is extremely difficult for people to grasp. We create all times and all events from this eternal now. It is so wondrously simple.

Of course the discussion of what will happen to the human soul is a religious matter, so you would have to look into the various religions to see what answers they come up with. Of course some people don't believe in the concept of a "soul."

Statements like, "There is no "ultimate" destiny, because as you well know, all time is now. Eternity is the eternal now so how can there be anything ultimate or final?" make me wonder what line of reasoning or objective proof they are basing this on.

If you have some understaning of the nature of the atom you might be aware of the fact that electrons, which orbit the nucleus of atoms, will eventually run out of energy and stop, causing matter to decay into inert, cold particles. In other words, the universe itself will end if something like the big bang doesn't re-occur sometime in the distant future to recharge the atoms in the universe. In other words, there might be an "ultimate or final" end to the universe.

I also find the notion that "We create all times and all events" to be a shocking statement, espically when you consider the massive bodies we have learned about in the universe and the overwhelming forces that exist which could dash this planet to pieces in an instant. To think that we have created such things is beyond rationality.

[]the soul will become a part of another place and time, its own energy frequency has attracted all its molecular traits into one infinity beyond the reach of the corrupted structures,and at that place we shall all have great powers far beyond the capabilities of ordinary man able to understand the mechanics of the universe ,and also able to be in all places at one time and yet to assume a humble identity.so as to glorify the truth and justice in our lord :) :) :) :)

Hi,
The answer depends on your on religion or spirtual beliefs.
Best wishes,
fredg

Since when does a truth depend on a belife I ask you fine people to answer that in your own heads .

What lies ahead as the ultimate destiny of the soul?

HANK :)

From a biblical standpoint that depends on the choices a person makes, or more specifically, a person's behavior.


Ezekiel 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. KJV

Deuteronomy 30:19 KJV
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

BTW
The nature of the human soul is a separate issue from its destiny.
The nature of the soul involves what the soul is.
Its destiny involves its future.

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion! Beyond rationality seems a little harsh... but that's OK. I take no offense. If you study quantum mechanics it will surely help you understand how reality works and you will see that my ideas may be a little shocking but also valid and perhaps correct.

. We create all times and all events from this eternal now. It is so wondrously simple.

You seem to be speaking of a subjective reality? The subjective reality which Humes considered the result of sense impressions. Right?

Your soul lives within in you in another plane of existence acting as the intermediary between your human mind and the higher self.

mike145k, good observation dude.

I like to consider the human soul to be a marvelous mystery worth pondering off and on at length, simply enjoying every blissful "now" moment of it... so forgive me if I seem reluctant to reach a conclusion here.

For now, it's more than enough for me to have met mine (funny, it DOES seem a lot like any of yours too!) and still be learning how to lovingly care for it. Xoxo

Hi Hank.

By 'Soul' l take it you mean our life force or spirit or whatever it is that keeps us ticking. We know it's there because we talk to it and occasionally, it comes up with answers.

My own spiritual or cerebral - or a mixture of both - stuggles have led me to the conclusion that our soul does live on after death - but not in us - in our children and therefore it is eternal (or until we [the human race] blow our planet up or the next K2 happens or - with all this genetic engineering going on - actually manage to neuter the whole race).

Personally, I don't like the idea of this heaven - the believers tell us that all we have to do is confess our sins and ours will be the kingdom of heaven - or something along those lines. Logically this means that every paedofile murderer or whoever - as long as they confessed - will be up there and between them and the bible bashers I think I'd just rather pop off to sleep at the end of my shift and leave the world to my kids.

Jonegy -

Why bring up the worst of them? (pedophiles murderers) Anyway , their confession would require repentance from God. And I'm sure He scrutinizes very carefully when judging them.

Why not concentrate more on the benefits of Heaven promised to those that love and obey God?

Your conclusion isn't very convincing at all. Is it so hard to accept the truth that has been followed throughout the Bible?

If you are at the Religion category then you should at least acknowledge that wise people believe in God. Nothing else. It's a fact.

Always trying to disclaim or denounce religions shows you come to the religion topics in offensive mode. If you had something better creed to talk about you would. But you try to discredit God.

So I think you should approach this subject with more reverrance.
Or at least with an open mind. You'd be surprised at what you might learn about Christianity.

Cheeri do then...

Your soul lives within in you in another plane of existance acting as the intermediary between your human mind and the higher self. Why don't you take a little trip and go meet it? That might clear up all of your false notions and biased misinterpretations of all the crap you have been told. You are right, that depends on which religon (crap) you beleive. This is your que to get pissed. Go ahead...go on...get down.

mike145k, good observation dude.

Really? The sad truth is that research reveals the popular concept of the soul comes from Platonic philosophy.

Excerpt:
The concept of the soul's supposed immortality was first taught in ancient Egypt and Babylon. "The belief that the soul continues in existence after the dissolution of the body is ... speculation ... nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture ... The belief in the immortality of the soul came to the Jews from contact with Greek thought and chiefly through the philosophy of Plato, its principal exponent, who was led to it through Orphic and Eleusinian mysteries in which Babylonian and Egyptian views were strangely blended" (Jewish Encyclopedia, 1941, Vol. VI, "Immortality of the Soul," pp. 564, 566).
http://www.ucgstp.org/lit/booklets/heavenhell/ishistory.html


Immortal Soul
WHERE DID THE IDEA OF AN "IMMORTAL SOUL"COME FROM? From the booklet "What is Man?" by Keith W. Stump. FEW BELIEFS are more widely held than that of the "immortal soul." Virtually everyone is familiar with the concept.. . Many will suppose that the Platonic view of the soul imprisoned in the flesh would have been nothing new to...

http://www.british-israel.ca/immortalsoul.htm


The History of the Immortal-Soul Teaching
Secular history reveals that the concept of the immortality of the soul is an ancient belief embraced by many pagan religions. But it is not a biblical or apostolic teaching.

So if you wish to propagate and believe Platonic ideas be my guest, But please be so kind as to allow those who don't believe Platonic ideas to express themselves freely without being a target of your insults. Think you can manage that?

BTW
If my answers bother you as much as your posturing seems to indicate, then why not simply place me on your ignore list instead of resorting to self-gratifying insults which might very well lead to pop-goes-the-weasel unsavory consequences.


Jonegy -
Your conclusion isn't very convincing at all.
Cheeri do then....

That's because these are merely opinions offered up as possibilities interspersed with insinuations of probabilities. Behind all this devil-may-care unsupported speculation is a rejection of the Bible. Once the Bible is considered as being of no consequence, then any idea that pops into the mind can be put forth as viable.

What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?
Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? Mark 8:35-37 (NIV) Did Christ mean your soul was something you carry around in your pocket, not inside?
The word soul, among many others, have never really had a static meaning and their modern connotations are misleading when applied to ancient thought. The Hebrew religion never outgrew the idea that man's life is indisolubly associated with his body, ie: bodily resurrection. I did not say the soul is imprisoned in the flesh as Platonic teaching points out. I said your soul lives within you and in the other levels of creation as well. Simultaniously, at the same time. Just as our astrial body lives within us as well as in the astrial plane. That is something that is hard to understand and one point Jerry Falwell or that little phoney in the Naru jacket will not tell you. It is a level of spiritualism you must experience for yourself. There comes a time when you must pull your nose out the book and put the knowledge you have acquired to real use. If you don't, you just get stuck deeper and deeper in the mudhole of dogma. Now who wants to play Pop goes the weasle while stuck in a mudhole... but go ahead if you must.

"My servant in whom MY SOUL delighteth" (Isa. 42:1).

So according to you God has a soul?


Biblically,the word soul is used to refer to life itself, future life, the person himself. The word Nephesh is used for soul. Other Hebrew words are used for spirit. Adam became a living soul he was NOT given one. That the soul is not something invisible and immortal is obvious when we see the Bible refer to it as being killed by a sword, eating, feeling hungry, and getting destroyed.


The Bible definition of 'soul':
Gen. 2:7 "And the Lord God formed man out of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul." [Hebrew - Nephesh]


Nephesh: A breathing creature, i.e. animal. [or man] (The New Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, 1984)

Plato of course had his own ideas which you seem to prefer which is OK by me since everyone is entitled to an opinion no matter what it might be. But please keep in mind that what a person experiences might be caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. It is subjective experience which means nothing except that the person feels it's real.


Biblical passages that are misinterpreted http://www.wrestedscriptures.com/b01immortality/immortal_soul_absurdities.html


Spiritualism in Christianity Today
Is our Soul Immortal? Or is the Bible correct in saying that only God has Immortality? And what about those that teach Spirit + Body + Soul = a person? Is THAT Biblical?. nothing new about it) teaching of reincarnation. The soul is immortal, it goes on, after death, so you... The shocking news is, the soul is not immortal! When this Biblical...

http://www.homestead.com/dclwolf/soul.html

The Bible Meaning of "Soul": AN ANIMAL LIFE OR BODY SUBJECT TO DEATH -- NOT IMMORTAL
... New and Old Testaments In Harmony. "Living Soul" Equals "Natural Body... Testament, which may be summarized as follows: Soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, appetite, emotion...

http://www.antipas.org/books/soul/soul_1.html

BTW
The information provided above is meant for the ones who were meant to understand.

Excerpt:
The Scriptures themselves give the answer. They tell us that the Truth is hidden from all except those few whose minds and hearts please God [2 Cor. 4:4; Matt. 13:11-15; Mark 4:11; Luke 8:10; 1st Cor. 2:14; Isa. 55:8; Matt. 7:13-14; 20:16; 22:14; Matt. 24:12-13; Luke 13:23-24; 18:8; 2 Tim. 4:3-4; Matt. 11:25; Luke 10:21]. Divine truth is not a common thing to be probed by every curious scholar [1 Cor. 1:17-29; 2:1-16; 3:18-20]. Unless a man sets his heart to seek God and sets his life to conform to God's will, he can no more find the truth of the Scriptures [Deut. 4:29; 1 Chron. 28:9; 2 Chron. 15:2; 31:21; Prov. 28:5; Isa. 55:6; Jer. 29:13; Amos 5:14; Matt. 6:33; 7:7; Luke 11:9; 12:31; 13:24; Acts 17:27; Heb. 11:6; Rom. 12:1-2] than the men of Sodom could find the door of Lot's house [Gen. 19:11].

God has said that He will send a strong delusion upon all those who receive not the LOVE of the Truth, that they should believe a lie (2 Thess. 2:10-11).

OK, your right, you have no soul.

OK, your right, you have no soul.

We don't have souls we are souls.

Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. KJV

I have soul. <cue music>

Please, please PLEASE - do read the original question. (deja vu or what? )

1 - Pumpkin - Hank asked for all opinions, so would you please direct your thoughts on the ORIGINAL question to him.

2 - Starman - Roughly the same as above but with the addition that I think by now Hank knows your opinions from postings numbered 7,9,14,16 and 18.

1 & 2 - Your opinions on my posting, while offering you another opportunity to do your ranting, may or may not be of interest to him and as you well know, certainly doesn't interest me as I (and I suspect) quite a few of the other readers are aware of your beliefs ad nauseam.

You did I hope, observe that I used the term "personally" in my posting which means I was speaking (ok writing :) ) a personal message to him. Is this disrespect for other peoples privacy part of your beliefs as I do find it extremely rude and I am very easily hurt - you do realise that we Brits are very sensitive people :p

Please, please PLEASE - do read the original question. (deja vu or what ??)

1 - Pumpkin - Hank asked for all opinions, so would you please direct your thoughts on the ORIGINAL question to him.

2 - Starman - Roughly the same as above but with the addition that I think by now Hank knows your opinions from postings numbered 7,9,14,16 and 18.

1 & 2 - Your opinions on my posting, while offering you another opportunity to do your ranting, may or may not be of interest to him and as you well know, certainly doesn't interest me as I (and I suspect) quite a few of the other readers are aware of your beliefs ad nauseam.

You did I hope, observe that I used the term "personally" in my posting which means I was speaking (ok writing :) ) a personal message to him. Is this disrespect for other peoples privacy part of your beliefs as I do find it extremely rude and I am very easily hurt - you do realise that we Brits are very sensitive people :p


It's commendable that you give us advice for the sake of keeping the thread on its topic. As you already know by my previous post on other forums concerning thread topics I wholeheartedly agree. You also should be aware that my response to this thread was originally brief and on topic. But some here feel they must express their opinions regarding other people's views. This in turn tends to throw the thread off topic by initiating a sequence of interchanges. A



As for rudeness, if I was rude, I apologize. Being human I slip now and then. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. However I do notice that you then are rude. Also, you take offense at my response to an insult because it is off-topic but don't take umbrage with the off-topic ad hominem insults themselves. Neither do you bring this forum violation to the person's attention and yet you target Pumpkin and me with your advice.

As for privacy, if I did violate your privacy somehow you have my apologies. I'll be more careful next time. In any case, if privacy is what you seek then a private message is better. About my posts, since you consider my posts rantings, and say they don't interest you and provoke an "ad nauseum" insult as well, then perhaps you should not read them.


BTW
Also please keep in mind that not everyone here shares your evaluation of my contributions.

What lies ahead as the ultimate destiny of the soul?

HANK :)
It is awsome that god made us and including souls... The destiny of the human soul is what you make of it... Either you serve JESUS CHRIST... or you could serve SATAN... God gave us the choice... Heaven or hell... I know when someone DIES... Their soul is in gods hands and from there is up to the person and JESUS CHRIST...

What lies ahead as the ultimate destiny of the soul?

HANK :)
Hey there Hankoid... nice to "see" you here.

LOL!

;-)

Hey there Hankoid ...nice to "see" ya here.

LOL!!

;-)Hank last post to this site was Nov 12, 2005.

Hank or current resident,

You ask 2 separate questions. What is the nature of the human soul and what is the ultimate destiny of the human soul?
The nature of the human soul is wicked. This is where question 2 comes along: The destiny of the human soul can either be heaven or hell. And thanks be to Christ who transforms us from our wicked ways!

Hello Hank,
How are you doing?

This is a very controversial topic. While the idea of the immortality of the soul in Judaism and in some Christian denominations is due to Platonic influence, the concept was built into Islam from its beginning. The Koran, the holy book of Islam, teaches that man has a soul that goes on living after death. It speaks of the final destiny for the soul as being either life in a heavenly garden of paradise or punishment in a burning hell. This is not to say that Arab scholars have not tried to synthesize Islamic teachings and Greek philosophy. The Arab world, in fact, was influenced to some extent by Aristotle’s work. I believe that the immortality of the soul remains the belief of Muslims.
As a Christian though I personally look to see What the bible says in order to help me understand what the soul is and its destiny.
Gen. 2:7: “ God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.”
Notice that this does not say that man was given a soul but that he became a soul, a living person. The part of the Hebrew word here rendered “soul” is ne´phesh. KJ, AS, and Dy agree with that rendering. RS, JB, NAB read “being.” NE says “creature.” Kx reads “person.”
1 Cor. 15:45: “It is even so written: ‘The first man Adam became a living soul.’ The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.”
The Christian Greek Scriptures agree with the Hebrew Scriptures as to what the soul is. The Greek word here translated “soul” is the accusative case of psy•khe´. KJ, AS, Dy, JB, NAB, and Kx also read “soul.” RS, NE, and TEV say “being.”)
1 Pet. 3:20: “In Noah’s days . . . a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.” The Greek word here translated “souls” is psy•khai´, the plural form of psy•khe´. KJ, AS, Dy, and Kx also read “souls.” JB and TEV say “people”; RS, NE, and NAB use “persons.”
Gen. 9:5: “Besides that, your blood of your souls [or, “lives”; Hebrew, from ne´phesh] shall I ask back.” Here the soul is said to have blood.
Josh. 11:11: “They went striking every soul [Hebrew, ne´phesh] that was in it with the edge of the sword.” The soul is here shown to be something that can be touched by the sword, so these souls could not have been spirits.
What do some scholars say, do they acknowledge that this is what the Bible says the soul is?
“There is no dichotomy [division] of body and soul in the O[ld] T[estament]. The Israelite saw things concretely, in their totality, and thus he considered men as persons and not as composites. The term nepeš [ne´phesh], though translated by our word soul, never means soul as distinct from the body or the individual person.. . The term [psy•khe´] is the N[ew] T[estament] word corresponding with nepeš. It can mean the principle of life, life itself, or the living being.”New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 449, 450.
“The Hebrew term for ‘soul’ (nefesh, that which breathes) was used by Moses . . . , signifying an ‘animated being’ and applicable equally to nonhuman beings. . . . New Testament usage of psychē (‘soul’) was comparable to nefesh.”—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1976), Macropædia, Vol. 15, p. 152.
“The belief that the soul continues its existence after the dissolution of the body is a matter of philosophical or theological speculation rather than of simple faith, and is accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture.”The Jewish Encyclopedia (1910), Vol. VI, p. 564.
Let’s see if the human soul can die according to the scriptures:
Ezek. 18:4: “Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul* that is sinning—it itself will die.”
Matt. 10:28: “Do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul ; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul* and body in Gehenna.”
Acts 3:23: “Indeed, any soul [Greek, psy•khe´] that does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.”
Does the bible teach that conscious life continue for a person after death of the body?
Ps. 146:4: “His spirit [Hebrew, from ru´ach] goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.”
Notice this:
“The concept of immortality is a product of Greek thinking, whereas the hope of a resurrection belongs to Jewish thought. . . . Following Alexander’s conquests Judaism gradually absorbed Greek concepts.”—Dictionnaire Encyclopédique de la Bible (Valence, France; 1935), edited by Alexandre Westphal, Vol. 2, p. 557.
“Immortality of the soul is a Greek notion formed in ancient mystery cults and elaborated by the philosopher Plato.”—Presbyterian Life, May 1, 1970, p. 35.
“Do we believe that there is such a thing as death? . . . Is it not the separation of soul and body? And to be dead is the completion of this; when the soul exists in herself, and is released from the body and the body is released from the soul, what is this but death? . . . And does the soul admit of death? No. Then the soul is immortal? Yes.”Plato’s “Phaedo,” Secs. 64, 105, as published in Great Books of the Western World (1952), edited by R. M. Hutchins, Vol. 7, pp. 223, 245, 246.

“The problem of immortality, we have seen, engaged the serious attention of the Babylonian theologians, Neither the people nor the leaders of religious thought ever faced the possibility of the total annihilation of what once was called into existence. Death was a passage to another kind of life.”The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria (Boston, 1898), M. Jastrow, Jr. p. 556.

In conclusion Hank, I believe the destiny of our soul is that we die and then if God approves of us and finds us agreeable to him, he can resurrect us and give us life and because our soul is us we can live forever, after we are resurrected.

Acts 24:15: “I have hope toward God, which hope these men themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.”

This will include persons who faithfully served God in the past as well as the large number who never knew enough about the true God to accept or to reject his ways.

John 11:25, 26: “Jesus said to her [the sister of a man whom he thereafter restored to life]: ‘I am the resurrection and the life. He that exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life; and everyone that is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?’”

My soul’s destiny I believe to be one that if God grants, a soul that will be blessed with eternal life on earth. Notice my hope is mentioned in the Bible.

What does the Bible show to be God’s purpose regarding the earth?
Matt. 6:10: “Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.”
Ps. 37:29: “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.”

(Ecclesiastes 1:4) A generation is going, and a generation is coming; but the earth is standing even to time indefinite.

(Psalm 104:5) He has founded the earth upon its established places; It will not be made to totter to time indefinite, or forever.
Zeph. 2:3: “Seek Jehovah, all you meek ones of the earth, who have practiced His own judicial decision. Seek righteousness, seek meekness. Probably you may be concealed in the day of Jehovah’s anger.”

Ps. 37:9, 11: “Those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth. . . . The meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.”

It says the same thing in the NKJV and the KJV of the bible, they just do not use God’s name Jehovah.

Take care,
Hope12

Since when does a truth depend on a belief? When we talk about something like the nature of the human soul, you might be aware of the fact they we have not yet discovered a way of objectively analyzing the matter like scientists do when it comes to subjects like botany and biology, where you can discover objective truth, like the fact that plant leaves conduct photosynthesis.

Religious people will tell you that they believe something to be truth because of their faith. Many religions require this kind of commitment. But objective truth, as most people would define it, cannot be based on a belief. In science a belief might bereferred to as a hypothesis, but never as a basis for truth.

I think the ultimate thus evolutionary destination of our souls is to return with fully selfconsciousness to the source where we originated from.


Take whatever is coming to you... let the beauty of it move you!

"that is not dead which can eternally lie yet with strange eons even death may die."
-lovecraft