I was asked to post this. Someone has a home and finished getting money for
Reverse mortguage. He's in his 80's and needed money for his bills so he rented
Out the downstairs. Now someone wants to buy the house and allow this
Friend to live out his days there for free.

The problem is, the one in the illegal apt won't leave. Is it a hopeless
Situation? The woman won't try to buy the house unless this tenant is gone.

The tenant will have to be legally evicted according to your local laws.

As J-9 said,m the tenant will have to be legally evicted. This generally means giving a 30 day written notice to vacate. If the tenant does not leave by the deadline, then the landlord needs to go to court for an eviction order.

The danger in doing this with an illegal apartment is that the local government may impose fines and penalties on the landlord for renting an illegal apartment. This can go so far as to requiring the return of all rents.

I would highly recommend consulting a local real estate attorney to gauge what the damage may be. It might be cheaper to pay the tenant to leave.

As J-9 said,m the tenant will have to be legally evicted. This generally means giving a 30 day written notice to vacate. If the tenant does not leave by the deadline, then the landlord needs to go to court for an eviction order.

The danger in doing this with an illegal apartment is that the local government may impose fines and penalties on the landlord for renting an illegal apartment. This can go so far as to requiring the return of all rents.

I would highly recommend consulting a local real estate attorney to gauge what the damage may be. It might be cheaper to pay the tenant to leave.
Thank you for getting back to me. The problem is, he doesn't pay rent. He
Did work around the house and keeps up stuff because he's a handyman.
But he has not paid rent in years. The homeowner cannot afford lawyers
Or the fines should he be caught. Wish I could find out if the tenant is here
In this country legally. I may just ask that question on this board.

Is there a way to find out if someone is here legally from Jamaica?

He is a tenant that doesn't pay rent and refuses to leave. He can't be
Evicted because his apt is illegal. He had a rent free apt that he built
Himself within the house down in the basement. He hasn't paid
Rent in ages. The homeowner wants to sell the house but the
Potential buyer won't buy until he's out.

It doesn't matter that he doesn't pay rent. This is his legal residence. He will still have to be evicted according to your local laws.

This question is irrelevant. Housing and eviction are governed under state law, and the rights of tenants and landlords and all that are exactly the same regardless of anyone's immigration status, which is a federal thing.

Plus, there is no exact term "legally here" in immigration law. There are lots of related but slightly different terms, each meaning something different, and none of them meaning exactly what you think it means. What ultimately matters is whether someone will get deported or not, and that is something that depends on lots of factors, which are between the person and the government, and are none of your business, and which you have no right to find out.

OF course he can be evicted, but the issue of a illegal apartment and fines for that may happen.

No, there is no way, to prove he is here on a valid visa or even a citizen of US at this point, unless he is willing to provide you the documents.

It is time, to hire an attorney and deal with the eviction though the court.

J_9 is correct. Whether he pays rent or not is immaterial, he is a tenant and needs to be formerly evicted. However, if there was a agreement to pay rent and he hasn't, then the notice can be a PAY or Quit which gives him a shorter time to pay in full or vacate.

I merged the two threads. As noted it is immaterial whether he is an illegal or not. If you suspect he is, than report it to ICE and they will check.

The good news is that even though he is a tenant according to eviction laws, he isn't there illegally, I think, because he doesn't pay rent. He's just a live-in caretaker, like a nanny or maid.
So just go ahead and evict.
It might be a good idea to have someone else live there while all this is going on, in case he decides to get destructive.

... He can't be Evicted because his apt is illegal. He had a rent free apt that he built Himself within the house down in the basement. ...

I don't know that the owner would be liable to pay fines under these circumstances. It appears that the tenant, not the owner, is responsible for this "illegal apartment".

I don't know that the owner would be liable to pay fines under these circumstances. It appears that the tenant, not the owner, is responsible for this "illegal apartment".
Wow that's a very different opinion then what I've been getting... which is that it's the owner's responsibility. I will discuss this also with him. Thank you for your
Your response.

Fines and penalties are a worst case scenario. But AK has a point. Its not clear, but you are saying this tenant built the apt himself? So he was invited to live there as a caretaker and then set up the basement apt? If that is the case, I doubt if the homeowner would be help responsible.

Fines and penalties are a worst case scenario. But AK has a point. Its not clear, but you are saying this tenant built the apt himself? So he was invited to live there as a caretaker and then set up the basement apt? If that is the case, I doubt if the homeowner would be help responsible.
Yes, he built it himself. And he never paid rent but he doesn't do anything
Anymore except a little shoveling and he's living free.
The woman who wants to buy the house won't if he is still there.

Then give him one calendar month's (assuming this is NY) written notice to vacate. So he would have to be given notice to vacate by April 30 (at the earliest). If he is not out by then on May 1 the homeowner (or their rep) needs to file for an eviction order in local housing court.

Then file the process from there.

It doesn't matter what he has done, if she serve lawful eviction, he's gone. If she wants to sell she evicts him.

Then give him one calendar month's (assuming this is NY) written notice to vacate. So he would have to be given notice to vacate by April 30 (at the earliest). If he is not out by then on May 1 the homeowner (or their rep) needs to file for an eviction order in local housing court.

Then file the process from there.
Sounds great but it's an illegal apt and the govt will get after him for back
Rent which he never got... but still the apt is illegal. He is as poor as as
Dormouse and can't afford any trouble.


It doesn't matter what he has done, if she serve lawful eviction, he's gone. If she wants to sell she evicts him.
Not that easy... we're dealing with an illegal apt.

Jammy, that's not necessary true. He treats him as a roommate. While he doesn't need a reason he just tells the court that he has a buyer for the house and he needs to leave before the buyer will close. It is a possibility that the government will come after him, but unlikely. If he hasn't been receiving rent then they won't go after him for it. But that's his ONLY choice. Either he gets him out or he says goodbye to the sale and puts up with this guy for the rest of his life.

An illegal apt, is a totally separate apartment, separate entrance, full bathroom and kitchen. It also one that he is renting at market rates. That's not the case here. So again I doubt if the government would come down on him.

Jammy, you are thinking too hard and making this harder than it really is. Cut the drama. Simply put, your friend serves an eviction notice, then follows through. It's really as simple as that. Your friend isn't trying to get codes enforced for the so-called apartment, he is only filing for an eviction.

'the govt will get after him for back
Rent which he never got'

Wow, you give the gov't too much credit. They (IRS) won't even KNOW what goes on in your local eviction court.

I don't know who is using scare tactics on you, but ignore them, and EVICT!

What I said earlier about penalties and fees will be at the local government level. And, as I said, it will be worst case scenario. Give the additional facts you provided that the tenant built the apartment and has not paid rent, it is a longshot that will happen. Tell him to give a written notice. Once the tenant see that he will get evicted, he may leave. No matter what happens, the tenant has no right to continue leaving there,

Wow that's a very different opinion then what I've been getting... which is that it's the owner's responsibility. I will discuss this also with him. Thank you for your ... response.

As others have discussed in this thread, it is unlikely that the authorities would even attempt to fine him for an illegal apartment. You should understand that the eviction court is an entirely different institution than the code enforcement agency. Thus code enforcement is unlikely to even know it if he sues to evict.

Also, it depends on the circumstances as to who is liable for building an illegal apartment. As I understand what you have told us, the "tenant" made the apartment without the owner's permission. If, for example, a trespasser (i.e.: without your permission or prior knowledge), or even a houseguest, were to build a shack in your back yard and live in it. Under such circumstances, you would not be liable for an "illegal" shack.

I'm curious to know how "the authorities" will even know this is an "illegal" apartment. The owner simply files for an order of eviction. It's not necessary for the codes department to come in send inspect the dwelling for an eviction.

No, but if the area is zoned for single family homes, the court clerk might catch it. The clerk might have to check to ensure the filer owns the property and find out its not listed with an accessory apartment. The tenant may bring it up. There could be other ways that the building dept gets informed. Of course its possible that it won't be checked at all.

Maybe I misuderstand your first post but how does one sell a home with a reverse mortgage? It is not your to sell.

I wondered about that too, but the way I understood it the buyer was offering the reverse mortgage rather than a lender.

I'm afraid that the reverse mortgage is from a lender, is close to over, and the owner has no clue that he can't sell the house. SIGH

Going back to re read it, I agree with Joy. If this person wants to buy the house, she has to do so from the lender.

If the potential buyer does want to buy it from the lender, then of course it's up to the lender to evict.
UNLESS the lender can't be bothered, and is willing to wait for other buyers, or has them.

OP doesn't seem to be very aware of the details, and wants to worry instead. Leaving us spinning our wheels.

Rethinking this, I'm not an expert on Reverse mortgages, but I believe the mortgage holder CAN sell the property, but will need to repay the lender for the reverse mortgage at closing.

... I believe the mortgage holder CAN sell the property, but will need to repay the lender for the reverse mortgage at closing.

I believe you mean that the mortgagor (the 80 year old man), not the mortgage holder (the entity which owns the reverse mortgage) can sell the property. In other words, the Mortgage holder" would be the same as the "lender". If your theory is correct, that the owner reverse-mortgaged the property and now wants to sell his interest to another party, I suspect that OP and the owner are very confused (the 80-year old owns nothing to sell but what is in effect a minimal-value life estate). Either that, or the potential buyer is as clueless as everyone else in this story.

Sale or not, the tenant can be evicted.

Either that, or the potential buyer is as clueless as everyone else in this story.

Including us! ')

I yes I meant mortgagor.

Jammy, that's not necessary true. He treats him as a roommate. While he doesn't need a reason he just tells the court that he has a buyer for the house and he needs to leave before the buyer will close. It is a possibility that the government will come after him, but unlikely. If he hasn't been receiving rent then they won't go after him for it. But that's his ONLY choice. Either he gets him out or he says goodbye to the sale and puts up with this guy for the rest of his life.

An illegal apt, is a totally separate apartment, separate entrance, full bathroom and kitchen. It also one that he is renting at market rates. That's not the case here. So again I doubt if the government would come down on him.
That's the part I left out. He lives in the basement. The person who wants to buy the house lives behind him in the same house and pays him rent.
An apt with a separate entrence is there.

That's the part I left out. He lives in the basement. The person who wants to buy the house lives behind him in the same house and pays him rent.
An apt with a separate entrence is there.

That doesn't change the answers. Legally evict the guy in the basement. That's all that needs to be done. It really is that easy and drama free.

Maybe I misuderstand your first post but how does one sell a home with a reverse mortgage? It is not your to sell.
He has been to the lawyer with the person who wants to buy it. She has to
Pay off something to the bank... I never owned a house so I really don't
Understand the terms used... but she is willing to pay whatever but only if
He gets the this guy out.

Start with just evicting him. Once he is out we can discuss the rest of it.

Agree with all the others, the only way to evict hm, is legally though the court.

The court does not report this to code enforcement, and it is a totally different court and office that handles these issues. The only way they will really know, is if the renter, decides to cause problems and reports it.

But that of course is the issue and problem of illegal apartments. You risk these problems.

Jammy, that's not necessary true. He treats him as a roommate. While he doesn't need a reason he just tells the court that he has a buyer for the house and he needs to leave before the buyer will close. It is a possibility that the government will come after him, but unlikely. If he hasn't been receiving rent then they won't go after him for it. But that's his ONLY choice. Either he gets him out or he says goodbye to the sale and puts up with this guy for the rest of his life.

An illegal apt, is a totally separate apartment, separate entrance, full bathroom and kitchen. It also one that he is renting at market rates. That's not the case here. So again I doubt if the government would come down on him.
The woman who wants to buy the house also has an apt within the house.
That's why he can't evict. That's two illegal apts.


Agree with all the others, the only way to evict hm, is legally though the court.

The court does not report this to code enforcement, and it is a totally different court and office that handles these issues. The only way they will really know, is if the renter, decides to cause problems and reports it.

But that of course is the issue and problem of illegal apartments. You risk these problems.
That's just it. He really can't trust that he won't cause trouble. He seems to
Be led by his daughter who is very unfriendly and probably doesn't want him
To move in with her. The woman who wants to buy the house also has an
Apt within the house and her own entrance... so he could get into a lot
Of trouble.

What a bunch of bull. The lady can buy the house and evict the old coot herself if that's what she wanted to do. Nobody cared about any of that illegal crap when they were moving in.

Then pay him to move, offer him 1000 or 2000 to move out.

Evict him! Do you understand what an eviction is?

They are afraid, that the renter, will report the illegal apartment, the renter of the illegal apartment may also sue for all his rental money to be refunded since the apartment was not legal to rent. Also there would be fines from the local government because of the violations. Also if they did any remodel, without permits to allow for rentals, there could be fines and required changes to the home.

So this is why they are scared and do not want to take it to court. If the renter, wants revenge he has many options.

The woman who wants to buy the house also has an apt within the house.
That's why he can't evict. That's two illegal apts.


That's just it. He really can't trust that he won't cause trouble. He seems to
Be led by his daughter who is very unfriendly and probably doesn't want him
To move in with her. The woman who wants to buy the house also has an
Apt within the house and her own entrance... so he could get into a lot
Of trouble.

What we said a couple of weeks ago still applies. The owner can evict the man occupying the first " illegal apartment". The eviction court isn't going to care about whether it's "illegal", or whether there is a second "illegal apartment" in the premises. And if the daughter causes trouble with the building department, it again comes down to the circumstances under which either "illegal apartment" was created.