Hello, I'm 19. I'm a nice person, I identify myself as an altruist(I try to compromise, so I wouldn't end up hurting myself), an extrovert and a guy with strong sense of values, I try to search for meaning in everything and try to play my part in this world. I have a girlfriend, we're together for 4 months, everything happened so quickly with her, we've got along extremely well, I didn't even hit on her, we just hit it off. It seemed(seems?) that we're getting along, our life goals cross paths, have very similar values, tastes and hobbies.

(I should mention this upfront, she was cheated on in first relationship, and was desperate for a long time, as she claims) Of course there are some drawbacks, she has a history with guys, she slept with 6 guys(she's seventeen, most "~90%" girls are like this these days, unless they don't go outside), and she's sent nudes to at least 4 guys(that I know about), of course she denied sending nudes in the past, but later I found out that truth is different. Normally, most guys don't mind this and have a history("proud history") as well(In my experience).

But I'm different, I've never played this cat and mouse game, I don't have a long history(1 girlfriend, who cheated on me), I've always searched for meaningful relationships(unsuccessfully it seems), for true , pure love, I want to grow up surrounded by loved ones, who truly care about me, but I am also a very outgoing guy, and emotional closeness is a very important aspect of my life, it's too hard to be alone(been for 18 years), searching for a similar girl, who may not exist.(before her, I was convinced, a girl like me doesn't exist)Truth be told, I wouldn't have ever considered her to be my girlfriend and it may seem dumb of me, that I ended up with her.

Before I fell in love with her(I sincerely think I did) I didn't know much of her past, only that there were many "friends - one night stands", and she was cheated on, desperate to find a nice guy(like me). Knowing this, I overlooked her past (I was-am convinced, she's closest to one I would like to be with) and let myself get very close to her.But after we fell in love, I found out she lied about sending nudes. Now I found out she's keeping in contact with those one night stands and guys who hit on her and got her nudes(all were very close friends, or 1-4 week boyfriends).This, and her behavior (she's hot, so many guys hit on her, she acts VERY friendly with them all) and few more reasons lead me to believe that she is the opposite of what I want.

Looking at her past, I thought she learned(the hard way), what love is, what relationships are about, and how bad is it to not treasure your soul and body, that I consider sacred and the thing that our future lives depend on(if you don't treasure love and your body, how can you have a loving marriage? No judgement, but don't argue, I'm open minded, but I won't change my mind). So I thought she became like me, learned of values, even if the hard way, I may have a bright future with her, she may be the one. But now I find(I happened to get her Facebook with her blessing) that she is still talking with those guys she's slept, or sent nudes to, and talking very very friendly, they flirt, ask for pictures, send their "6 packs" but tell her that they aren't hitting on her(oh yes they are, she's just naïve --- as you can see from before). Also, she has those guys on snapchat, if you don't know about it, it's a phone application which lets you chat with real time photos, which delete themselves after being sent.

Again, this leads me to believe she hasn't learned of values, she just thinks she loves me, I'm just a guy to have fun with and feel loved for the time being. And while those past shadows are still haunting our relationship, I cannot trust her, I cannot let myself feel affection , I simply care about her and want her to be happy, and I feel like this about many female friends(just because I'm a nice person).

Thank you for reading. To clarify : I was lonely for most of my life, lost hope that there are any girls like me, until she appeared in my life(best girl I've ever met, and I've got to know at least 1000 girls my age since I was 16). She had a history, which I didn't like, but I overlooked it and let us fall in love. We've been together for 4 months, but I found that she's in contact and letting past "boyfriends" flirt with her(she doesn't see it that way sadly -- she thinks she's just chatting, and thinks it sincerely) , also there's the secretive snapchat. I know she, at least, thinks she loves me sincerely, and she has the character which I like and is rare(in my experience). But letting those guys from her past haunt our relationship leads me to believe that she isn't trustworthy, that she doesn't regret her past one bit, this ultimately means she isn't the person I thought she is.

To be fair, I don't want to control whom she can talk to and whom she can't, I give her freedom, but the way she acts, isn't the way a person with values act. (I'll throw additional fire to justify my doubts, recently she told her ex boyfriend that she loves him as a friend,and he's the one who cheated on her and ruined her childhood, recently, she told at least 3 guys she's sent nudes to that they should be models and are making her drool. In the past, she confessed her love to at least 10 guys, past meaning 2-3 years back)

In conclusion, I will ask again, is this the end? I cannot make her change her life completely, and I cannot stand those guys haunting us, and her acting this way, I do not trust her anymore and I do not think that she's the one, meaning we should part ways, although I want to stay with her badly, but I can't be with her like this. At this rate, we're through.
I don't want to be judged(I did go against my beliefs being with her), or her to be judged, also I can't afford a professional to help me(I'm a student who has to eat rice and instant soup just to get by). I just want you to be emphatic and tell me , what would you do in my shoes? And is it possible for us to compromise and stay together? I'm feeling hopeless at this point. Any insight is greatly appreciated.

P.S. We have no drama between us, everything is smooth(on the outside), it's just that I do not believe us to be right for each other because of her actions in the present, not the past, and I may be wrong, hence, this question!

You forgot to mention how old she is. Assuming that she is around your age, her behavior is pretty typical, a teen still testing the waters and learning about people. It isn't easy to tell from what you write how much she loves you, cares about you, considers you the love of her life - you dwell so much on every little detail of what other guys she interacts with, and in what ways. You seem to be open to not being jealous about her past (good!), but it is understandable to be jealous of the present, as long as you aren't imagining things based on her past. If she is crossing whatever line makes you feel uncomfortable, then all the attributes that made you click when you fell for her are out the window. ALL of us have to face the fact that people we fall for don't often turn out to be who we thought they were when we met.

Is this the end, you ask. You sort of answered your own question, which is often what asking is about (especially when you practically wrote a book). You chose to write about all her flirtings and how they go over a line. Personally they don't sound so bad to me, especially being friends with an ex. I detect a hint of too much concern on your part, and that maybe you are magnifying some innocent actions. And you sound like a snoop. Being 'friends' on Facebook allows you to see everything except messages, so why did you feel a need to get her 'blessing' to get into her messages? And she isn't doing anything to hide them either, usually a sign that someone isn't doing anything that can be considered cheating.

I'm taking both sides as you can see... the choice of course is yours. You tell us: is she going over the line, or are you too jealous of harmless interactions?

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/dating/want-throw-her-off-cliff-catch-her-bottom-803614.html

My reply was, https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/dating/want-throw-her-off-cliff-catch-her-bottom-803614-3.html#post3696106


it's just that I do not believe us to be right for each other because of her actions in the present, not the past, and I may be wrong, hence, this question!

Leave her alone because you cannot accept her for what she is or deal with your own feelings in positive ways. It's not her, it's you, and how you deal with yourself. Not judging either of you YOUNG people, just stating the obvious.

Ah, she's 17, I see from your older post. This one should have been a continuation.
That means the odds are VERY high that she is going to bask in the attention of guys in HER GRADE. You don't say if you are in school or not, but sometimes 17 to 19 is a huge gulf.
Aside from that, I think you need to examine your noble thoughts. You aren't as wise, mature, thoughtful, and understanding of boundaries between people as you like to say you are. Your mind is clouded with the same jealousies as the next person.

joypulv You gave me something to think about, I may be too concerned, but I am not jealous, If she switches sides, I won't fight for her (not worth fighting for, if she does that), that's why I'm trying to prevent it, I don't mind her being friends with ex's, but in my opinion she is crossing the lines that I do not wish to be crossed, and it makes me give up. I'll try to think outside the box, and change, following my views, either everything is perfect or everything is hell in a relationship , not really wise :)


talaniman Your opinion is quite correct, but my words made you think this way and before, my previous post was very biased and based on emotions(I wish I could take it back). If the light bulb gets broken, you don't buy a new house, you repair the light bulb . Just because we have some issues, doesn't mean we have some sort of abusive relationship. She wants to keep me, so do I, we just have some very opposite opinions on these particular topics, and it makes me wonder, if it's something we can put behind us and find a compromise, we are YOUNG people like you said, we can still change our views and resolve our differences.
As much as I appreciate your insight, if you suggest to abandon the ship, after a wave hits it, I wonder how you can sustain a relationship for over 10 months, because this phase, when a lot of problems and dramas occur, happens in every relationship at some point.
for refference, stage 2 (http://www.loveatfirstfight.com/relationship-advice/relationship-stages/) .


P.S. I've always though of myself as an eccentric, since birth, I've always seemed different. Eccentricity is considered a mental illness, an unholy sword(double edged sword). For instance, I was running around like crazy at school during breaks with others until I was 7, then I realized it's stupid, others realized this when they were at least 9. I have great intellect, deducing, analyzing, memory skills. I see hidden patterns, and have very unique views in these times. I can use this to my advantage most of the times, but it bites me in the sometimes(with relationships for example) .
I'm very rarely understood as a person, I've always seemed to jump ahead of everything("I've never played this cat and mouse game"), and I'm usually right, it's not something that can be fixed, so I have to work my way around and compromise . Help me understand, rather than telling me I'm weird or crazy , taliman

joypulv, please do not use my previous topic as a reference. I know I'm not wise, I've stated why in "P.S."(short story, I have high IQ, a unique perspective, which many people disagree with, so I am not wise , siding with the minority, therefore stupid in a way, but I can't help it) . Also, previous post was written in 4AM, when my mind was clouded, heavily clouded I admit, I regret saying everything, it's just that I've never expressed myself, all the feelings, grudges of my life were bundled into these VERY LONG posts . This post, was written with a cool head !
P.S. I never express my self like this to others, because I can't express myself in a short, reasonable manner, also, I've found others give very lame advice(they might tell a pregnant and depressed woman to be not pregnant so she wouldn't be depressed...) :D everything is so complicated in my head, and I need people like you.

You both are young and inexperienced prone to misjudgements and mistakes, not weird(?) nor crazy(?) and its normal to hold onto what you think you want. How can you know after just 10 months? My point has always been its good to go as long as you both put up with each others crap, but don't expect any changes any time soon, and the odds that you will both stay together forever is really quite small.

You both are at different places in your lives with different priorities and styles and values. Life is what it is my young friend but you have MORE than just a bad light bulb at your house at this time. You have a new stranger in it with different ideas from yours, and SHE wants a NEW HOUSE. And your evaluation as to what level your relationship is at is not only flawed but unrealistic (but NORMAL for a love struck young person). YOU both are still learning each other.

10 months is nothing (maybe to you it is). You are but attempting the best you can to cope with your partners reality. Still stage ONE of your own reference. It's a BIG RED FLAG when such conflicts (mostly YOURS) have put such a damper on the honeymoon phase.

Deal with it, or leave it alone is the simple suggestion, as understanding comes later, after you build an understanding together that works for you both. If you cannot then you won't learn and grow together, you will grow apart. You are always required to deal with your own dignity, and self respect though.

Great response! Although she claims she has similar values, such as love, being friendly and so on. But her actions and past make me doubt she cares much about love, she did tell many guys she loves them, and she tells me she didn't love them, and I am the most important one she ever met.
If it was only her past in concern, I could get over it and believe her. But when she's sending pictures(non-nude, but showing off her figure and such) to other guys, telling them compliments and fishing for them aswell. It's really hard for me to believe her because of this, I know she won't cheat on me(as a fact), but in my book she acts as if she wants to, and this hinders me from letting us have a happy and peaceful relationship.
Let's say it's NORMAL for her and other girls to act this way, and I don't consider it this way, but many teenagers act this way so it's considered socially acceptable(but lets not argue about this).
OK, so it's normal, but , the hell? She was like this before, and got a really bad reputation(some people laugh at me for being with her, but i don't really care) , she says she's sorry for such past, was desperate, she wanted attention, was sad because others are happy and she can't find anywhere a nice guy(really bad way to find one by sending nudes), most guys are cheaters and etc.
And she's telling me she's changed with me, she now knows of love, cares for me and etc. She says she changed, and she did a little. YET , she still acts like before with other guys, still flirts, sends them pictures, she doesn't seem changed at all, and I don't know if I can trust her.
P.S. I will talk to her tomorrow about this!

I apologize if I sounded extremely harsh. I forgot to mention that I was not much different at 19. Intelligent people have a sometimes fatal flaw: they can talk circles around themselves and anyone else and can rationalize absolutely any viewpoint.

No worries, I know of these flaws , but I guess I have to live and learn the hard way like the rest. On the previous message I've really progressed to explaining the root of the problem and reasons. Only figured out this myself just now! And yes, you could tell me 1 word, and I could speak whole day about it ;)

You and this young lady are not on the same page no matter what you may feel for each other. She does not suit you and you apparently do not really suit her.
Walk away. She is not the one.

The funny thing about love is that you usually end up with a person, who is a complete opposite of you. I'm prepared for the worst, I will accept my fate, but for now, I do wish to at least try to coincide

Someone being the opposite of you and being incompatible or not suited are two different things. You two are not suited.

Life works in mysterious ways. Sometimes you fall in love, and later, wake up next to a person, who is actually a complete opposite, people usually break up after realizing that, and in the end they end up figuring out more about themselves, what they want, what they don't want. And most of you suggest me to break up, but in life, there are only few people, who are compatible with each other, and in my situation, I'm afraid - none. Also, I'm not interested treating relationships the traditional way, which usually ends up in 35% divorce rate, broken hearts, ruined lives, depression , alcoholism and a tiny chance of happiness and a relationship 'till death
There's only 1 girl I've ever met, who was like me, she felt the same way, but we were classmates and couldn't make it work.
And my current girl, is the closest I've to what I want, probably the closest I could find(should've mentioned, I live in a country with ~2.4 million people).
I want to make it work, I just don't know how, should I get her to get over her past guys, who are still haunting us, or should I just become another brick in the wall, lose my beliefs, and flow with the stream into unknown? Life is too short for me to #yolo like the rest do, in my opinion, life is short, so we should value it and give it our best, not the other way around, which is the traditional way of thinking , and I just can't accept that

You can't get her to do anything. You don't have that right. She is who she is. If you don't like it, you move on. You don't expect someone to change to suit you.
You are young and have a lot of maturing to do. What you are looking for now will no doubt be different when you are older.

You can't get her to do anything. You don't have that right. She is who she is. If you don't like it, you move on. You don't expect someone to change to suit you.
I'm afraid, there are only a couple of people who suit me, as for myself, I'm willing to change(become more/less caring, going out more, staying inside more, enjoying some other activities etc.)
I realize, I have no right to make her change and become "a happy person"(from my point of view --- I'm not forcing my ideals onto her, but at the very least, I want her to get rid of her past adventure "friends" who are dragging her down, and me along with her -- as long as I'm with her). But I simply can't find any girls(not taken) my age , who at the very least, share the same ideals. So I must give it a shot, and try to convince her to get those past boyfriends(who want to take her away sincerely or secretly -- and at least for a short time -- she knows this, and she chooses me - a long term partner).if this condition is met and those past partners are gone, I'm confident we can mature together, learn to live with our differences and be happy(our idea of long term happiness is identical)


You are young and have a lot of maturing to do. What you are looking for now will no doubt be different when you are older.

(kinda off topic, but I enjoy discussing this as well - might learn something)
I looked up some information, 53% marriage to divorce ratio in my country(Also USA - Source : wiki, data from - 2010) , not to mention how many families stay together just for the kids and other reasons.
I do not want to be a part of this broken heart cycle, I simply refuse to change my ideals, and become a part of this "socially normal people" who are on a path of divorce and a sad life(High probability for many people, not 100%, but the definition of my happiness of life is happy relationships, so - 99% that I will be unhappy if I change)

I'm basing my "truths" on statistics and experiences of my life and people I know. I may not be "mature" but statistically, at the very least, 50% of "mature" people do not know how to live.

And I know I am right, the way people live(are hardwired to live that way) isn't the way to reach a happy marriage(happy life from my perspective - my happiness is a happy marriage) .

We are not living the same lives, our grand parents, or even our parents lived. Times change - so must we change our way to live , and I believe this traditional way of living, is a really bad way to live(having short term happiness, and long term sadness -- at least in my case. Some might enjoy living carelessly for ~30 years or so, and facing consequences for the rest of their lives -- not me)

And at least at the moment, I see the road which leads to "the happy people club", and along this road there are no random hookups, no flirting around, lying -- basically - f*ing around carelessly. There is only compassion, empathy, compromises and following values(not money or short term hormone fun).

And I realize that my opinion is a complete opposite of almost everyone in the world, but I have my facts, I did my homework, been there, done that. I did study psychology and sociology for 3 years(Enough to realize, I know more than a "common mature person" yet I know almost nothing)

Also, I'd rather live lonely all my life, than settle down with someone, who is on the road to destruction(from my point of view, that would be 99.99% girls) and I believe she has the potential to realize this, she does agree with me on these kinds of things(usually, unless it involves her changing).

I have other goals besides having a happy marriage, my 2nd goal is helping out people, being successful, becoming a mentor, teacher or something of that sort(nothing specific at the moment). But firstly, I want to try to make my 1st goal a reality.

P.S. no judgement, different people have different definition of happiness, and different goals. But with my goals, the only correct road I see, is the one I'm following.

This is going to sound harsh, but please think about it. I have read all of your posts and think you need to slow down. You sound like you plan to marry her before she turns 18 or you turn 20, whichever comes first.

You need to stop thinking that your life is over before you are even 20 years old. You aren't an old man at the end of his life looking for any companionship you can find. She isn't an old woman who has lived her life and learned what love is and has decided to settle for the first 'nice guy' to come along.

You are 19. She is 17. You are both still learning what love and being in love is all about.

Life is short, but you aren't valuing it. You are treating it and her like a possession you can control. Your best seems to be making things conform to your beliefs. Where in your belief system is working to understand that she has her own beliefs (that are growing and changing as she does) and you can accept them or you can walk away and give yourself time to find someone who is better suited to you and your life.

Thank you for spending the time and reading.
I didn't find this harsh at all! I appreciate the criticism, advice, and opinions, as long as it's based!

You sound like you plan to marry her before she turns 18 or you turn 20, whichever comes first.
I realized yet again, I'm not that good at speaking my mind clearly. I do sound like I plan to marry her. I don't plan that yet, I just want to try and make our relationship work, it might not, but "try" is the key word here.


You need to stop thinking that your life is over before you are even 20 years old.
My future does depend on my choices(not completely), I see my future in a linear fashion.

Let's say I'm with her here and now-> we make it work -> we emigrate to different town(our capital, with universities), get degrees -> we find a house , settle down, work -> live together = happy.

And the opposite - I'm with her here and now -> we fail to make it work -> I'm alone -> I get degree, along the way I "might" find someone else, similar to me(not probable) -> Again, "maybe" we make it work -> settle down -> be happy.

So I'm choosing the path, which is more likely to lead to my goal. Nevertheless, I like her overall. It's logical and emotionally satisfying that I stick with her.


She isn't an old woman who has lived her life and learned what love is and has decided to settle for the first 'nice guy' to come along.

You are 19. She is 17. You are both still learning what love and being in love is all about.

In the beginning, I didn't expect much from her, she was the one, who wanted to stay with me for a long time, talking about future and us . Telling me, that I will always be a part of heart, her first real love, important to her.... and we will stay friends even if things go south (Cutest thing any girl has ever said to me).
Therefore, I started considering this as an option, and with time, I started believing it's possible more and more. And she's less and less lately (I've been a lame boyfriend for a while, because of stated reasons)

We both agree that we are compatible, and our paths really cross, same town to study, same life goals(settling down, having fun, having family etc). Simply put, we basically want the same thing, and our characters coincide, but we have some issues as you can see.


Life is short, but you aren't valuing it
I don't follow.


You are treating it and her like a possession you can control

Yes, I am treating life as if I can control it, though I admit, I can't do it completely, I try to do my best.

And I admit, I try to control her, a little, so does she try to do the same. For example, she wants me to go out more, but this way, we overcame many differences, and our happiness is growing each time, so I see no problem.


Your best seems to be making things conform to your beliefs
Isn't that what all/most people do? And excluding relationships, my beliefs and reality is the same, I'm open-minded about "things" , excluding relationships.


Where in your belief system is working to understand that she has her own beliefs (that are growing and changing as she does)

At the moment, the only major thing that we disagree on, is the boundaries, of what is acceptable while talking to other people.

It's well known, that girls usually don't hit on guys, so she doesn't really see how I talk to other girls, who hit on me -- I simply make it clear that I'm not interested, by saying "I'm not interested" which my girlfriend fails to do, for some reason(this bugs me). And I keep talking friendly, about things friends talk about, not about how great we are and what great couple we could be(friends don't talk that way).

A very close friend, or past partner, hits on her , saying something like "You are amazing, I wish we could be together" and she doesn't make it clear, that she's not interested, just changes the topic or replies with a compliment , simply put, she doesn't say whether she's interested or not --- staying "neutral" (She claims she loves me, so I keep asking myself - why??).
I know that she believes this is okay and has no meaning, but those guys keep coming, she's thinking, they are friends, they think, that she can be lured(faking friendship, I also have friends who do that, even to ~10 girls at a time, and girls never realize this!! )
I also have very good female friends, whom I helped out a lot, fixed their relationships countless times(okay maybe 3-5). Simply put, we share our experiences and what I found out, girls are naive(young one's) and only a couple of them know this and this "fake friend" play usually works!! There's a saying(sorry for profanity) A shoulder to cry on, is a d*ck to ride on.( Those guys are constantly trying to give her the warm shoulder, and butting in our life, while telling her they want her(indirectly usually) )
I admit, I always provide a shoulder to cry on for my female friends, but I give out advice, tell them everything will be okay, life's not over and etc. They tell my girlfriend stuff like, "you'll get over him/there are plenty fish in the sea-me :D" -- wow, such advice, really said for the purpose of simply helping out...

In addition, I am insecure, If I know, that if there's a threat, and my girl doesn't know this, and plays right into the trap, I can't help but feel this way, even if she wouldn't do anything wrong no matter what! I don't know if she doesn't realize what they do, or if she doesn't want to, whatever the reason, facts are facts, and they should go away.

P.S. You are right, we are growing, learning, since I've wrote this topic, I've learned so much and changed a lot. And she is growing, I want us to grow together, even if our paths separate someday.

You are both young. Allow this girl to live her life. You take yourself way to serious. I don't mean to be rude but you don't have a clue. Enjoy your youth and let her enjoy hers.
You think if she stops talking to these boys she will change. She is who she is. Why should she not talk to her friends for you?

My young friend you have just begun to identify the things in yourself and about yourself that you must deal with, and have not yet even faced the challenges of life. Nice you have a plan, but be prepared to make adjustment and many of them on your journey through life.

Especially when you learn you barely can control yourself, and have no control over others, let alone what life throws at you. Be grateful for what you have now while you have it, because chances are it will be gone tomorrow and new challenges will be before you.

You will always have changes to figure out. So will she, whether you are together, or apart.

I don't mean to be rude but you don't have a clue.
I also don't mean to be rude, but you sound like those Christians, who are actively denying evolution, and insisting that god exists, while providing only a single argument : "Just because".

You think if she stops talking to these boys she will change.
If she stops talking to them, she would have changed already the way I want and opened a new page in her life, a bright page with me.


Why should she not talk to her friends for you?
Why would she stay in touch with a few fake friends, who only want to get into her pants, and nothing else? She has many friends, there's only a couple guys like these, though those guys are trying to stay in touch all the time.

My young friend you have just begun to identify the things in yourself and about yourself that you must deal with, and have not yet even faced the challenges of life.
I agree 100% with you, I haven't got many responsibilities, not yet. And I must be prepared for what life throws at me. I'm not sure if my life will be way harder, or I already experienced the pain that life throws at us, just in a smaller proportion and more gentle form.
Although, life is hardly predictable, we can still stay on top. I can't recall precise number(don't take it as a linear fact), but we have no control over 50-70% of our lives, there are some things you just can't plan for. Can't chose parents, their wealth, or control other people's actions. But we can definitely change our surroundings, chose the people we stay in contact with, places we go -- choose a better environment, with a better chance, of meeting our goals, wishes and dreams. Choosing a better environment, which let's you change for the better and succeed. For example, getting rid of people, who drag us down(My girlfriends past partners, in my case, they only get in the way, and bring no advantages, and are actively trying to sabotage our relationship --- she doesn't see it that way : "Just because").
I studied this particular topic(about controlling our life). I have a way of dealing with it, actually, I'm a person, who'd rather improvise and let things fall into their places. But when I plan, and am able to make most of unpredictable situations, I maximize the chances, of reaching what I want. Logical , isn't it?

To clarify : My plan might not work, but I am flexible enough, and can fit into any environment , even if I don't like it. Though I will try, to set on to the best path(environment) and make the most of it(my current situation as well).

P.S. I must admit, I've changed so much, after starting this topic. (Learned to accept the reality, got more carefree and even happy go lucky, became less serious, a happier and a more enjoyable person to be with overall, while retaining my ideals. This is the only things that my girlfriend wanted. I believe, I've took a huge step forward, since joining this community. Satisfaction of my relationship is skyrocketing , becoming better by the day.

P.P.S
Nature makes sure we fall in love with the most incompatible person in the entire universe……the person least capable of meeting our needs and most capable of making our worst nightmares come true.
Yet they are the PERFECT person to push our every button and force us out of our comfort zone to ADAPT and GROW.

But of course, when we fall in love, we don't see our partner's flaws. If we knew about them, we'd run like hell in the opposite direction…


Source (http://www.loveatfirstfight.com/relationship-advice/relationship-stages/) . I may be clueless, unwise, or even stupid from some perspective. But at least, I sidestepped the traditional way in which relationships work, realized our differences way sooner, and got a turmoil as a consequence. But this way, I got an ability to plan out my dating life, essentially - my whole life :)

Ok, I understand that it feels sometimes bad, jealousy or (whatever you can name it) to see the one we love and hope good for, going back in the past and dragging the past people/ thoughts/ stories, things in the New relationships, which possibly may create hindrances in the new relationship. But understand that girl also, she is 17, probably she may not be able to understand fully (even though she says she understands) how this people from her past is affecting you or your relationship. You may be very mature and have better understanding but SHE is a different human being, her way, level of growth could be different. Leave it on nature, you probably said or did what you can. Now when she will continue to grow she will understand by herself. Now if you wish or you can sense that its going to get change then you wait for her to figure out it by herself on her time. And if you don't think this change is going to happen ever then, you are free to take any decision.
Now for you, I understand that you understand about relationship very well, but Its one thing to think that marriage is going to be like what you believe in your post and its another thing to actually be in a marriage and experience on your own. " If you worry about marriage is not going to work then let me tell you, marriage is not what makes you happy, it makes you a better person and give another level of personal growth, marriage doesn't create problems it reveals problems, when you marry probably what you may think about yourself is not a big deal, but it can be big deal for others. And as you yourself said there is less probability of finding person who is just like you. I would add that there is not at all any chance of finding person just like you. There is going to be some difference.


But I simply can't find any girls(not taken) my age , who at the very least, share the same ideals. So I must give it a shot, and try to convince her to get those past boyfriends(who want to take her away sincerely or secretly -- and at least for a short time -- she knows this, and she chooses me - a long term partner
So, there you go, there is a little place where you still need to grow. You say you need pure love and do pure love. But If you had many options you wouldn't have even consider it giving any shot. You are considering because you don't have any choice. A True love is "Unconditional". Search your heart first and slow down a little bit you both not only need to grow up a more individually but together too. :)

I love Science, I love it but I know Evolution theory is a "THEORY." Science is not separate subject from God's stuff . Science is just exploring, discovering what has already been created by the Creator. Scientist have invented and discover many big things, and we are living our life comfortably today bcos of those big discoveries and invention but I am sure they are not the one who created those things which they discovered about.

I am a Christian and I don't deny science. Your immaturity is showing young man. You may get this girl to stop talking to her friends but it won't be because she has changed, but because you have manipulated her.
I don't know why you insist on being with her sense you seen to have such low regard for who she is. You need to experience life and grow and so does she and you don't need a girlfriend to do that. You're only 19. What is the rush with tying yourself to someone and how does it benefit her to tie herself to you?

Precious17, I should give her time to realize , what hindrance they are, but I wouldn't say I'm a patient man, not really, you can see I'm mature for my age and it's because of that, because I'm not patient.
As for marriages, I don't really have an opinion on what they're like, so I tend to agree with you, but I have an opinion, that you marry someone, whom you are happy to spend the rest of your life, and have already been through enough, grew up together and definitely know that he/she is the one.

About religion and God, I did say I'm agnostic, it means, I won't believe it until I see it.
It's true that, there is no theory how we are alive, or even matter came to be, did anything just suddenly appear?
If god created everything, then how he came to be, who "created" him? Or how new souls are born? But I'd rather not discuss this any further. And the great thing about science, it's that it's real, whether you believe it or not. I'm not denying god, but I'm also not saying he exists, for all we know, he may be a flying spaghetti monster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster) :).


You may get this girl to stop talking to her friends but it won't be because she has changed, but because you have manipulated her.

That's true, but in manipulating her, I'm changing her, changing her for the better, and I know, if she knew what was going on, she would want to change the situation, because she has been cheated on as well and she wants no hindrances as well. Nevertheless, I see manipulation as a last resort , I would be happier myself if she simply realized, what is actually going on.

I don't know why you insist on being with her sense you seen to have such low regard for who she is.
You probably base this assumption on my previous Question Post, it's wrong. I have very high regard for her, I learned to let the past go, for the sake of future. She is great, the only thing I want to change in her, is the naivety.
Ignorance is a bliss, but it also ruins relationships.


You need to experience life and grow and so does she and you don't need a girlfriend to do that.
I hit a wall, without relationships, I have very little room to grow, but just for now, I'm nowhere close to perfection nor ever will be.

You're only 19. What is the rush with tying yourself to someone and how does it benefit her to tie herself to you?
Because I value purity of love, as I get older, the girls who share this look will be already in a relationship(very likely, I already know of couples like this) .
And the only one's left, will still be happy go lucky or with broken hearts - hopeless. They will either be in so many relationships with "Love" which fades, the concept of pure love will be acceptable to them like a God to atheists.
Also, they will be so used to living carefree, that it will be at least twice as hard for me to coincide with them, I would need to change them even more, and they will be impossible to change by then. Only a personal hypothesis, but with a high probability of being correct. I'm not saying that everyone who doesn't get a relationship by 20 will fail to have a love life, but with my ideals, I have to get it soon.
My chances of experiencing love are getting thinner every year as I grow older. Hence, the rush.

What are you willing to compromise on since all we have heard is what you want from her?

She didn't like that I shave, I have a beard now.
She didn't like that I play computer games, I've stopped.
She didn't like my clothes, I have new clothes now(they were bad, I didn't buy them before)
She didn't like that I don't workout, well, now I do.
She didn't like that I drink, I've stopped, not completely, just not once a week anymore.
She wanted me to eat more healthy. I do now.
She wanted me to learn to cook, I've found my hidden talent for cooking.
She didn't like my hairstyle(long hair). Now it's short(other people like it better as well, but I see no real difference - both suited me).
She wanted me to go out more, now I do.
She didn't like that I was prudent with money. Now I spend more.
She wants me to stop being so "philosophical" - thinking deeply. She can't follow me, actually, my psychology teacher found it challenging to follow my train of thought. But what they see as challenging, is trivial to me. I feel like a math teacher explaining 5 x 5 = 25 to 7 year old children... It's easy, but they see it as some mystery... So I joined this forum and am learning to let myself go and enjoy the little things.

I believe I'm compromising a lot. What she asked for, wasn't troubling for me, all these things I've changed/am changing, are either beneficial to me or weren't that important to me.

It was your choice to change and it's her choice if she doesn't. She needs to do her own growing and manipulating her is wrong.
There are many people who don't meet "the one " or fall in love until they are approaching 30. Stop trying to mold this girl to fit you and stop taking yourself so serious. You sound really desperate.

No wonder she doesn't listen to you. She doesn't have too! She's the boss and you do as you are told!

You both just made me laugh. We're so deep, we're missing the point, and you barely know anything about our relationship. We got way off the track.
She changed a lot for me as well, more than me I'd say.

No wonder she doesn't listen to you. She doesn't have too! She's the boss and you do as you are told!
She told me not too long ago, that I probably like her, because she does what I tell her(she feels/felt the opposite of what you're saying). She changed way more than me, the things I've changed are minor. She has changed as a person , and grew up enough, that her friends are wondering what is happening.
We both mold each other into a couple, and change ourselves for the better, even if we separate, we know we will come out of this relationship better than ever before. WIN/WIN either way.


You sound really desperate
I sound, but I'm not, I accepted my probable fate of being alone 8-12 months ago, made plans, found my other passions. I mentioned this earlier, I will try to make my relationship work .



Manipulating her is wrong.
If manipulating her is wrong, why is it okay to let my girl get manipulated by other guys?
Just because she doesn't realize it, doesn't make it okay.

It must sound really funny to you that a 19 year old guy is planning his whole life, in detail, being stubborn.
I may sound weird, immature, but I know I am right :)


My main question was : Is this the end?
Now I know the answer, it's not, it's a new possibility for improvement.

Now I have another question which we are kind of discussing(indirectly).
Should I let our relationship slowly decay? Until she realizes what's going on (unreasonable) . Or can I do something about it(reasonable)? And how?
I'm not asking whether it's okay for me to change her. I'm against manipulating, also, she won't let me do that. Would break up with me immediately if I attempted to do so.
Clarification : We're not going to break up over this. And this matters less than I made it seem before(I've changed) Yet I still want her to grow up, and I'm confident that there will be more situations like this, with a different topic, until she grows.

Off topic :
I don't know why you guys are against changing so much.
For example, a young kid, may keep insulting everyone just because he's a kid , and hurt other peoples feelings, until he realizes , what effect his actions have and grows up, acts appropriately(all children are like this, until brain develops certain functions) hence, crying in cinemas, screaming at funerals etc...
But Teenagers also don't realize how their future life depends on their current lifestyle, until they face the consequences, which, sadly, are often irreversible and life changing(for the worse).
So why not change, before something bad happens, when you know for a fact, that it will turn out bad?
Do you think it's okay for a child to be a rascal, "because it's natural since he's not smart enough"?
Well, I disagree, I think children need discipline(not too much, they also need freedom - 50/50) and teenagers need to learn about themselves and their lives and change so they don't end up like most people do nowadays(maybe it was like this before as well).
Most children and teenagers live accordingly to your ideals(I assume since you think changing is bad and nature should take it's course) "carefree and without someone to teach them a lesson" . And what are the consequences of this?
53% divorce rate, alcoholism, egoists, selfish people, liars, every man for himself, arrogance, ignorance, idiots. And most importantly, people barely have any social skills besides talking and waving hands, low Emotional Intellect and are unhappiness is very very common.
I'd rather live in a world, where everyone is happy, friendly, unselfish, honest and honorable. And to achieve that, we need to change, and to change since we're 12-16, not 30-60.
No matter what the environment, ethnicity or race - if parents are good people, and kid is taught how to grow up happy and successful , he will become a good person. He may be black, muslim, jewish, ginger and goth - the kid would grow up a better and more successful than the average current person.
I'm really fed up with all the BS I see around the world.
Your way of thinking breeds idiots. My thinking isn't ideal as well. But, if teenagers/kids were properly taught, the world would be a very beautiful and enjoyable place to live.

You aren't 19. You probably don't know how messed up our current generation truly is. Don't forget who raised them, and what ideals they were taught to follow.
I'm not directing this argument towards you, but to humanity as a whole. I can't imagine how hard it is to raise a child. But people who think that children/teens are free to live as they see fit, shouldn't be allowed to raise children at all.
It's not just me, turn on TV or surf the net(almost everyone thinks that the world is doomed with this generation). Honey boo boo - popular. Kim Kardashian - millionaire. "16 and mom". These kind of people are ideals, are admired, just what the hell? I think, pedophiles will be heroes in 50 years at this rate.

I must say. Wow , humanity is definitely heading the right direction, we shouldn't change. /sarcasm.

You keep writing these mini novels. I don't think you want answers, you just like reading what you write. I'm done.

You DA man with the plan! Let us know how it works out.

Good luck.

Homegirl50, I appreciate all of your efforts. In the end, you helped me out a lot.
I want answers, I just have a futuristic outlook on the world, following the "Emphatic civilization" ideals, the world isn't ready for that yet, not by a 100 years. I'm one of the extremely few who share these ideals. It's idealism is near utopia, yet very realistic. All it takes, is empathy and being a good person, willing to learn and change. If people were to change, we would live in paradise.
So it's no wonder,why you give up arguing, and why I need to write mini novels explaining myself.

Talaniman, no need to make fun of me. You may think I'm wrong. But I wrote a mini novel stating that I'm correct, I see no real objections and have 100 reasons and arguments that I'm right and will succeed. Thank you anyway, you did help me out a lot as well :)
I'll find you 10-20 years later, when I'm featured on the news all around the world :D

I believe you all would find this interesting, (http://empathiccivilization.com/) read at least the introduction

As the forces of globalization accelerate, deepen, and become ever more complex, the older faith-based and rational forms of consciousness are likely to become stressed, and even dangerous, as they attempt to navigate a world increasingly beyond their reach and control.
Times are changing, very rapidly, so must we. You have your own ideals, which worked in your time, but your time is the past, I realize you are some kind of experts. You are smart enough to realize that you need to adapt, and stop teaching others a failing way of living. At least consider this. I do not wish to win or flatter my ego. I wish to live in a happy world.
My generation is the first born generation in this changing world, the 21st century, we are the bridge, that connects humanity to the future, a bridge, between old world, and new era. And the way we are taught to live, gets us no further, while technology, is progressing 98% faster than ever before.

P.S. True that I wanted to have a debate, but this was just a one sided roast.
Me and girlfriend have resolved our issues!

HOW? You bombard us with all these side issues, but balk about explaining the issue that brought you here?

I'm even quoting your words. I'm not the one leading us off track, I'm just following you there.
Ok, main topic again.
She is carefree, I'm serious. How do we live together, without changing?

You said you have resolved your issues. I asked how.

Simply by talking. We shared our dreams, biggest secrets, talked about future, simply put, we connected. We're over this. I'm letting her grow.

She is carefree, I'm serious. How do we live together, without changing?
This issue is still at hand. I can prevent it from giving us problems.
But still, it kind of hurts. How can I accept her for who she is?
We accept each other, but after a while, differences keep piling up, we argue a lot, and learn to accept each other again. It's a never ending cycle, how to break it up, without breaking up?

P.S. I realize I'm kind of contradicting myself, the thing is, I'm the one suffering because of her being carefree, she sees no problems. Just that I bring them up. And from my point of view, she creates them all the time. Realizing her point of view, I can look past them, until they pile up and I see more cons than pros.

Oh! I see so whatever you are now, " a gentlemen '' and all those good habits its because of HER. Wow, you should appreciate her for this. She may sound not mature by your description but I am sure she has some right perspective in the area in which you don't have. Appreciate each other and or give a break to each other ( I don't mean break up, just a break). :) hope good for you.

You let her be who she is and respect her for who she is. If you can't do that, you break up with her. Why should she not be herself just to be with you.

By chance does she live with her parents, and of course have them to consider, and obey?

It really appears this boy has no idea who he is yet. One does not change for another person, nor do we try to change the other person.

Agree, drinking, playing video games all the time is often non productive but it is what young boys do, until they find a purpose in life. Life is goals, and making the most out of it, for you.

This person has changed who he is, no wonder he is confused. Now he thinks, the girl should change because he did. It does not work like that. The girl was wrong, in trying to make you into someone else. (even if that someone is a better person)

You on the same issue, have no right what so ever, to make demands on her to change, You may discuss your wishes, but not dwell on them. Once said, if she does not wish to change, she has no right to.

You seem obsessed with religion, although you seem to be the only one really wanting to talk about it.

There are many arguments for God's existence The Ontological arguments of people like Charles Hartshorne, or the classical Cosmological arguments of Plato and Aristotle which were developed by Thomas Aquinas. My favorite is the Teleological arguments, which is often called the argument from design. While developed in ancient Greece (not for a christian god, but a god in general) is best known from the works of David Hume's "Dialogues Concerning natural Religion"

Pure reason, of nature, and the design shows some intelligence for the balance of all things, pure chance seems a much less probable idea.

Religion is a creation of society, but the desire to look and find a god appears to be a natural part of the spirit of man. The idea of denying any level of god, appears to be more from a new nature of man wanting to be the master of all and supreme above anything else.

She lives with parents, abusive dad, but they barely know anything about her life and let her do as she wishes(very little control).
And I'll agree to disagree with you. Change is good, for instance, there are many very bad people, average person is at least egoistic, hurting others to gain something. Putting up a friendly facade and backstabbing when trust is gained is very common. Are those people correct, and shouldn't change?

If you think so, well, then I think you are as bad as them or any criminals overall.
My opinion only though. And just like you all say "Don't change other people, they are correct" ...

I don't wish to discuss religion, everyone has their own beliefs and reasons for that. I'm agnostic, and accept any possibility, even of the flying spaghetti monster, or Russel's Teapot.


This person has changed who he is, no wonder he is confused. Now he thinks, the girl should change because he did. It does not work like that.
We both agreed to change ourselves and did, and our lives are getting better, both individually and as a couple.


I don't think I'm confused about myself, I'm confused about the world and why it works such way. It's counter-logical to be arrogant, egoistic or carefree, with no sense of values. Unless of course, spreading hate, ruining other peoples lives is your life goal and makes you happy.
Yet, most people don't want to be bad, and are just like that, blindly believing that is the correct way to live(Since everyone is like that - Wolves and sheep, hunt or be hunted).
Stress, depression, suicides, unhappiness aren't that uncommon because of such lifestyle, which is dominant and considered normal.
Can you prove me wrong, Fr_Chuck?

My solution would be simple. Embrace empathy, equality, spiritual values.
And if everyone could follow just this, suddenly, the whole world would "enter a new era" , where bad guys are afraid to speak up and everyone can achieve their goals without building walls in their hearts and putting up a facade, distancing themselves from what they want.

I am a realist, and obviously there are more influence on this female than just you and your wishes and how that plays out in the future remains to be seen. So relax and enjoy what you have while you have it, and don't get so caught up in what you want, or could have.

You will find that as intellectual, and moral your arguments and justifications are, they have little to do with if words, and actions match, nor if feelings grow, change, or fizzle out later down the line. As a realist, I already know life can change things quickly and drastically, and opinions are but fleeting fancy of hope.

At least recognize your lack of control over the actions of this female and keep your eyes open. The outcome of this love experience is unknown, as are all romantic experiences. Don't get carried away is my point. More will be revealed later.

Words of wisdom, I am a realist as well, just not as experienced as you. I need some growing up to do. I talked and talked and talked with her, until I realized, that she is a person, who lives in the moment, not really caring about love or anything.

So I'm not getting attached too much, and letting this play out on it's own. I'm changing cities in half a year, so I won't break up and enjoy this while I can, but I'm not abandoning hope just yet.

She says she loves me, probably just a hormonal reaction, as I see she doesn't really care that deeply.
I never talked to many girls since we've got together, I don't like girls that much, they make poor friends, I just had some great ones, but they wanted a relationship and I didn't, so I've stopped talking with them.

Now, I'm not so extremely caring, I will act like she did all this time, talk to girls who flirt with me, be less romantic overall. But not on purpose, I simply won't care as much and it will happen.
If she really loves me, it will bother her, she will change, I will change back, and my previous plans work out.
If not, we will break up when I change cities and move on.
I said our paths cross, since she's moving out as well to the same location, just not as soon.
But, I believe, I could find some girls that I would like in a university. So I'm not that bothered about the future anymore.

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become a villain, my hopes were too good for this world, I've known this for many years, I knew, that the day when I would have to abandon hope would come, I didn't expect it to come so soon. Thank you all for guiding me this far, even if it didn't look that way, I learned more, than a year of dating would teach me.

P.S. Since I'm not so caring anymore, 99% of our problems disappear. Topic resolved.