Russia has retaliated to sanctions by banning imports, talk about shooting yourself in the foot. It has also banned cross Siberia flights which will bankrupt its own airline. I'm wondering if anyone is thinking this through over there, the only people Putin is hurting is the Russian people, the rest of us, well it is an inconvenience

Russia bans food imports from Australia, US, EU over sanctions - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-07/russia-bans-food-imports-from-australia-us-eu/5656434)

I expect that Putin didn't get the lesson of the first cold war and now he has some chips in the form of energy, he thinks he has leverage. He had better ramp up all those old soviet industries and dust off some five year plans. I wonder what the Russians will think when they are driving Belurus tractors and Zim cars

He is reacting to hardliners in the Kremlin . Both sides need to ratchet it down a few notches . What Putin is being told by the Kremlin ,and the vast majority of the Russian people is fight for Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts; the Donbas region now ,or fight in Russia later . The pressure on Putin is tremendous . He doesn't want direct Russian intervention .He'd prefer that a federalist system emerge. (and I also believe that is probably the best outcome to avoid a total military solution to the Ukraine civil war ) .

Our sanctions have been minor to now ...but they are being increased with increased economic impact on Russia ,and the Russian response you note is minor in the impact (and I agree that it will probably backfire). However ,if Russia shut off the energy spigot to the Western countries with winter approaching ,it would be a major move.


I don't think the emperor's rhetoric has been helpful ,with his childish and inaccurate trash talking of Russia to Reuters and The Economist .
3 Things Barack Obama Got Wrong About Russia - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomanis/2014/08/04/3-things-barack-obama-got-wrong-about-russia/)

Ignorance or deliberate disinformation? Obama?s 'facts' about Russia all wrong ? RT News (http://rt.com/news/177916-obama-russia-oil-population/)

His insults are either his ignorance or even worse ,the ignorance of those advising him . The US should be trying to find ways to tamp down the rising crisis ;not throwing gasoline on the flames.

Well Tom if he can't get war one way he will get it another. This is a nice european war, no muslims, very clear boundries.

Obama wants a legacy... any legacy other than being the only Preisdent that made Jimmy Carter look not only competant, but look like a genious. Even if it means a war.

I would have thought his nobel prize and his signature health care plan would be a sufficient legacy and he survived the GFC, hey

I value that worthless prize I got in the last box of CrackerJacks I ate higher than I would a Noble prize after that fiasco.

This is great... you've probibly all heard about it on the news...

VIDEO: Russian Students Mock Obama With Despicably Racist Laser Show (http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/165202-video-russian-students-mock-obama-despicably-racist-laser-show/)

Well Tom if he can't get war one way he will get it another
seems that is his goal...or at least the goal of Valerie Jarrett . I would remind the emperor that beyond some private industry start ups ,there is no way to get an American astronaut to ISS except by piggy back on a Soyez flight. I also would remind him that when an American astronaut almost drowned in his space suit ,the Russian model still operated properly . I would also remind the emperor that the only way available to supply American troops in Afghanistan is through Russian air space.

None of which is a reason to take crap from Putin.

Very short sighted of you Tal, of course you can fly your troops out to Diego Garcia or Guam but your astro naughts will come up a big zero but then you have experiemental space vehicles. These are the days of being cooperative, not confrontational.

Those Russian students gave Obama the big banana, now there is an insult you can't take lying down

It's not just us Clete but the Europeans too, and they have more skin in the game than we do. Putin isn't cooperating in the Ukraine, so must be confronted. Ukraine has as much right to sovereignty as Israel does don't they?

Sure do Tal but they have the means to enforce it, they have a large military but you have a separatist movement so this is a civil war. Remember your own civil war, your separatists were looking for outside help too

Had they found it during our civil war we would still have slavery. Had Hitler found it, we would be speaking German. Ukraine has allies. US, and Europe. Russians have Putin and sanctions. Pick a side.

No Tal I'm going to stay out of this one. I don't know enough to determine whether the seperatists have a legitimate grievence or not. I abhor their violence but you should remember your own nation was formed in this way, a few zealots with guns and a grievence. How can you say you had a right to do what you did and yet these people do not. In any case patriotism is the disguise of the scoundrel

I know who is running Ukraine now ;and saints they aint .

Putin sure ain't. Let the Ukrainians figure out their own stuff.

Well they are doing that

Putin sure ain't. Let the Ukrainians figure out their own stuff.

R2P is the foreign policy of the emperor and his advisor Valerie Jarrett . It was our rationale for our intervention in Libya ;it is the rationale behind the emperor's call for air strikes against ISIS . The Putin Doctrine is to intervene to protect native Russians.

I got a bridge to sell you real cheap if you believe that.

Putin does what is politically expedient for Putin, right now he is getting kudos in Russia for doing what he is doing, restoring former glory

Putin does what is politically expedient for Putin, right now he is getting kudos in Russia for doing what he is doing, restoring former glory


you are nuts if you think invading Ukraine is expedient for Putin . Yes he has to deal with hardliners in the Kremlin ,but it is not in Russia's interest to get into a fight in Ukraine ;especially with the threat of NATO intervention. However it is NOT in Russia's interest to have NATO expand to Russia's borders.

I don't see it makes any difference Tom except to a paranoid Russian

Ukraine 'destroyed' Russian military vehicles after border incursion | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/world/ukraine-destroyed-russian-military-vehicles-after-border-incursion/story-fndir2ev-1227026298590)

It is reported that Russian military vehicles have been destroyed in southern Ukraine, the ruse of humanitarian aid is shown for what it is

Apparently Putin's approval rating is in the 80s, which is far better than any Western leader, but since the government has a lot of control over the media, and elections are a sham, I wonder if his popularity is really that high among average people. Reminds me of that old joke about the annual Kremlin Correspondents' Association Dinner where the media gather to laugh at Putin's jokes or else.

Earl we are going down a road here we have seen before. Despotism is nasty, and Putin is nasty, just a bad joke. The Russian state went from communist totalitarianism to oligarcyic totitarianism and now twenty years later it is looking to recover past glories on the back of economic domination of Europe. The Russians want back their lost empire and the Ukraine was part of the Russian empire for a long time. They think Putin is strong enough to succeed so they applaud him, one day he will become as brutal as Stalin. Certain states have escaped the Russian grip, but has it done them any good? Bulgaria, Romania, Moldova, just economic backwaters, but the Ukraine is something else

Ukraine: Russian tank column enters southeast - Europe news (http://www.mail.com/int/news/europe/3059958-ukraine-russian-tank-column-enters-southeast.html#.1272-stage-hero1-2)

Apparently a Russian armoured column has moved into the Ukraine. We can expect various excuses for this, the need to secure the route to Crimea, The support of the Russian population in the face of Ukrainian successes, and the usual excuses for territorial grabs, as well as diversion to draw Ukrainian forces but it is dangerous brinkmanship

Somewhat reminiscent of its adventurism in Afghanistan, Russia has deployed forces in the Ukraine even as Putin holds talks with the Ukrainian president. He has made good on his threat to prevent Ukraine signing a agreement with the EU

Ukraine: 'Convoy of Russian tanks, weaponry rolling in through southeast' (http://www.news.com.au/world/ukraine-convoy-of-russian-tanks-weaponry-rolling-in-through-southeast/story-fndir2ev-1227039388911)

Ok so it's time to man up and take sides in defending the Ukraine

it's all part of the negotiations. I wonder what Ukraine will do when Russia cuts off their energy supply ? The NATO nations should note that winter comes early there . Why do you think Germany is so desperate to negotiate a deal when the rest of the NATO minister bluster ? Petro Poroshenko is a creation of Washington ;but I have no desire to commit US assets defending him. This clown who dissolved Parliament and is calling for general elections as he shells half his population does not deserve our support.

So you would rather support Putin and gift the Ukraine to him? What's next; Poland? Moldova? Romania? why stop there, Germany is looking pretty good. The real question is why he would want any of it when he has the economic might to grab them all by the throat and of course you along with them. I see that famous US back seat is back in use

Vlad doesn't have a leg to stand on in any negotiation unless he actually has something under his control in the Ukraine. Quiet as it's kept, the rebels have been slowly getting their butts kicked by the regular army.

And Putin intends to stop that happening

So you would rather support Putin and gift the Ukraine to him? What's next; Poland? Moldova? Romania? why stop there, Germany is looking pretty good. The real question is why he would want any of it when he has the economic might to grab them all by the throat and of course you along with them. I see that famous US back seat is back in use

Look at it from the Russian perspective . Instead of forging a real peace after the cold war ,NATO has been on a steady march right up to Russia's borders . I don't condone his actions in Ukraine ;nor earlier in Georgia. Neither did I condone the West carving out a piece of Serbia when the Russians did not have the power to defend their ally .
Make no mistake . It's NATO's advance that is causing the greatest instability .
It's a shame ,had the Clintonistas supported the democratic government in Russia when the Soviet Union fell ,we might never had to deal with the likes of Putin.

That's speculation Tom, and the NATO scare is pure strawman argument to justify destabilizing, divide and reconquer old territory for the economic interests of the Russian elites. We do agree on the present invasion to bolster the separatist rebels is a negotiation tool to leverage a better deal.

Of course it's speculation . All what if scenarios are .

As far as NATO .... Look back at history ..2 pretty significant invasions of Russia from the West went right through Ukraine.

Stop speculating Tom and stick with the facts, NATO didn't start this and nations wanted the NATO umbrella because most of the significant invasions of Europe in history came out of the east, including the Russians in 1945. You speak like a Russian sympathiser, Mccarthy would have had fun with your remarks, I bet there is a red under your bed. The Ukraine wants to remain free and we should help them, even if it means confronting Russia militarily

I didn't hear you calling for intervention when Russia was carving pieces of Georgia ( Abkhazia and South Ossetia) Actually it is NATO that has been pushing for Eastern European memberships.NATO added 12 Eastern European countries from 1999 to 2009.Would the US have tolerated something simular in the Western hemisphere? The US almost went to war with Russia 1963 because of Russian expansion up to our border in one country . Do you not see the comparison ? Ukraine is essential in Moscow’s view to its national security ;and based on it's history ,it's existance.

Look at the facts .It was the US that backed the overthrow of the democratically elected gvt of Viktor Yanukovych in Kiev in Feb. Russia wanted a negotiated settlement and new elections. When the EU became concerned that our stand could lead to a civil war , assistant secretary of State for European and Eurasian affairs, Victoria Nuland said "F the EU" (great diplomatic lingo). When new elections were hastily held ,most of Eastern Ukraine was disenfranchise . That is why the civil war there began.
And how has Kiev conducted this war ? They have indescriminantly shelling urban population centers in Donetsk.We almost bombed Assad in Syria over the same pretext. The real truth is that Ukraine is 2 nations in one artifical border. The people of the west want integration into the EU .The people in the east are largely ethnic Russians .They had a referendum in Crimea .97% chose to leave Ukraine .The referendum was monitored by many countries, including pro-western organisations and the result still turned out in Russia's favour.
Why not have another referendum like it in Donetsk ? You know why not . All the pretext of supporting the Kiev government's war would disappear.

A weak central government that cannot take care of it's own people is subject to regional and local factions. The argument of states rights, or regional autonomy, is an old one, that has divided nations, and redrawn maps for centuries.

Vlad stirs the pot well in dividing the Ukraine. Restoration of Russian domination has always been his goal.

The argument of states rights, or regional autonomy, is an old one, that has divided nations, and redrawn maps for centuries.
In Great Britian there is about to be a referendum for Scottish autonomy . That is the preferred way of dealing with it rather than shelling Glasgow into rubble .

Agreed!

You draw a long bow here, the Ukraine held elections and they didn't favour Russia, so Russia fermented discontent. How about we stir up discontent in California, how long before you would move the army in? What if Mexico invaded to get back its lost territory. Would you stand idly by?

uh wrong. The demonstrations were against democratically elected Viktor Yanukovych.
Then there were elections in May that Poroshenko won . However ,most of the Donbass region was disenfranchised and could not vote.
You crack me up . On one posting you decry the rule of billionaire oligarchs and on this post you support it .

He was elected by a clear majority, if Donbass was disenfranchised it was as the result of their own actions, polling stations were open where possible. What you seem to ignore is the balance of power shifted with the removal of Crimea. Putin shot himself in the foot with that one. I thought you like oligarcs after all your country is run by them and they fit right into right wing politics. Putin didn't like the decision of the people but then tyrants never like democracy particularly when the result goes against them.

We are now at the point where we see if american rhetoric matches their actions. Owbama is working very hard to get others to do the heavy lifting after being part of the problem he doesn't want to be part of the solution

You are right that the emperor's minions largely incited the rebellion against Yanukovych .

I am not "right winged " except in the context of your flawed spectrum . I am an American conservative ,a movement founded in the ideas of the founders . Nothing in our system encourages rule by the oligarch .Oligarchs gained power through progressive statism.

Conservatives pushed for tax cuts for the rich, and deregulation, wage stagnation, union busting, fight expansion of medicare, want cuts in poor people benefit, deny unemployment extension, and anything to help the middle class and poor American weather the storm of the financial crisis caused by Wall Street, who have recovered fully, and rake in money hand over fist, and you have the nerve to say its all the fault of progressives?

Okay you aren't a winger, but you are a free market capitalist with a very broken business model that's manipulated by oligarchs to extract all the wealth out of the economy. Conservative unfairness Tom, plain and simple. The founders would be appalled at the way conservatives have ruined their country, and blocked progress, growth, and prosperity for its people.

all Elizabeth Warren need do is download some of your rants and she'll have a season full of stump speeches. The truth is that it is the statists policies of the progressives that caused and prolonged the financial crisis . It is policies to address YOUR image of fairness and their unintended consequences that is the cause of the nations ruin. The founders would be appalled at how the "left" has distorted the constitution and the governing model they constructed .

Nice rant yourself Tom, but Romney already tried that one and lost. Your plot to diminish the government of the people and turn it over to private business will fail.

That's no rant, it's a prediction. If you holler like a winger, you might be a winger.

I agree with Tom. I have seen many times how progrssives have tried to yell and scream from both sides causing nothing but disolution for progress. You keep ranting how conservatives want to hurt the poor and yet progressives want to control the poor as personal slaves.

I hear communist propaganda there dad, marxism has no place in a modern society. The conservatives want to exploit this is what they have always done, the progressives want to own the means of production

Well for the sake of discussion we could stop the broad accusations and get specific, as I have outlined in my above so called "rant".


Conservatives pushed for tax cuts for the rich, and deregulation, wage stagnation, union busting, fight expansion of medicare, want cuts in poor people benefit, deny unemployment extension, and anything to help the middle class and poor American weather the storm of the financial crisis caused by Wall Street, who have recovered fully, and rake in money hand over fist,

Just pick any topic and lets get it on. I'll start, living wages in light of the moving of former middle class jobs overseas. Or a 10 year infrastructure plan that creates skilled jobs, and fixes stuff that's been broken and neglected.

don't have to debate any of your domestic points. Your embrace of the ultimate oligarch ,turned state ruler in a rigged election ,the corrupt Petro Poroshenko ,makes my case .

I haven't embraced anyone Tom, just criticized Putin for his actions. You have me confused with someone else, and that explains a lot.

see that's the problem ,a myopic view that doesn't take into account the actions of Kiev . Go look at the pictures of Luhansk and Donetsk . You made a big to do about Israeli precision attacks in Gaza against an enemy that was attacking them ,but say nothing about Ukraine's indiscriminant attacks on it's own ethnic Russians .

You completely ignore the obvious Tom, there is a civil war being waged by seperatists aided by Russia. Here we have a people who rebell when the political decisions go against them because they think they would be better off with Russia. What would happen if Oregon rebelled and said they would be better off with Canada because they don't like Obama and Canada sent forces into Washington state to support them.

Someone stated a shooting war and there are consequences of using heavy weapons

This is but ONE of many conflicts going on in the world.

Yes and Putin has taken advantage of the distraction, while the world moves to deal with ISIS, he invades Ukraine. The seperatists would not have been so bold had they not had Russian support

Someone stated a shooting war and there are consequences of using heavy weapons
indeed ;Kiev started using the heavy weapons against civilians .You also conveniently ignore that neo-Nazi militias were at the forefront of the Kiev coup that ousted the elected President Viktor Yanukovych.

This is but ONE of many conflicts going on in the world.
yes .you will recall how Putin pulled the emperor's feet out of the fire when he was at the verge of bombing Assad in support of ISIS when he foolishly put his foot in his mouth about a red line crossed.
The fact that the emperor was completely wrong about which side used chemical weapons gets ignored by the cheerleaders of the regime .
U.N. has testimony that Syrian rebels used sarin gas: investigator | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/05/us-syria-crisis-un-idUSBRE94409Z20130505)

indeed ;Kiev started using the heavy weapons against civilians .You also conveniently ignore that neo-Nazi militias were at the forefront of the Kiev coup that ousted the elected President Viktor Yanukovych.

So it all comes down to nazi fighting communists, sort of reflects the conflict you find in your own society, but the difference here is the conflict of freedom and oppression and that is a two edged sword, subject to which side you are on. You need to change the lens to a different colour

So it all comes down to nazi fighting communists, sort of reflects the conflict you find in your own society, but the difference here is the conflict of freedom and oppression and that is a two edged sword, subject to which side you are on. You need to change the lens to a diffent colour

the conflict really comes down to Yanukovych rejecting an EU proposal when Moscow made a better offer.
That's when the west orchestrated the coup against the elected government in Ukraine .

Regional feudalism still in the 21st century, and it still comes down to the strongest military.

Better offer, well maybe but it came with manicles, I like to live in a country where we can trade with who we like and so do the Ukrainians. More and More Tom you sound like Pravada

Pravda ,the NY Slimes .....what's the difference ? You think the western press is going out of it's way to report this objectively ? Even in the 1950s there was debate about the logic of plunging into the cold war . There certainly was more debate about our war against jihadistan .
However there are some objective journalists still in the west .
Fresh evidence of how the West lured Ukraine into its orbit - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/vladimir-putin/11023577/Fresh-evidence-of-how-the-West-lured-Ukraine-into-its-orbit.html)

Better offer, well maybe but it came with manicles,
And the EU and IMF versions don't ?
Russia Gives Ukraine Bailout Package of at Least $20 Billion - WSJ (http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304403804579263963348323966)
Meanwhile the IMF offered Ukraine a bailout with austerity measures that would make them the next Greece. Who do you think gave them the better deal?

What's Putin Up to Now? Four Possible Explanations - Businessweek (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-05-23/whats-putin-up-to-now-four-possible-explanations)


Despite his more moderate rhetoric, Putin's goal remains to foster instability in Ukraine and undermine the government in Kiev, Masha Lipman, an analyst at the Carnegie Moscow Center, tells Bloomberg News. “Russia wants to avoid any possibility that Ukraine will move toward normalcy and the Western orbit,” she says.

By hook, crook, or big stick! Then we have,

Putin's Economic Model Showing Strain as Russia Is Cut Off From Global Finance - Businessweek (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-06-27/putins-economic-model-showing-strain-as-russia-is-spurned-by-foreign-banks)

Putin's Popularity Up, Russian Economic Prospects Down - Businessweek (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-08-28/putins-popularity-up-russian-economic-prospects-down)

You think the Russian people get the real news? Do we? It's a big game of chess and the world is the board.

Lipman exposes her own biasis with this comment “Russia wants to avoid any possibility that Ukraine will move toward normalcy and the Western orbit.” Is EU expansion the normal ;and why does the dysfunctional EU want to expand east ? What product does Ukraine make or provide Europe ?

What product does Ukraine make or provide Europe ?

Economy of Ukraine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Ukraine)

You can draw the same conclusions as I can Tom Ukraine is strategically important to Russia and other CSA countries, and so has the ability to provide EU with minerals and it's enegy is largely untapped. It is not the poor relation as some former soviet countries were, but has suffered decline since the GFC and no doubt was looking for a boost

so it makes perfect sense for Kiev to attack and destroy their own industrial base.

It makes the same sense to remove the seperatists as it did to open fire on the crowds in Ferguson. Some people just don't respond well to being told no, and others don't respond well to being told there are better opportunities over here. I can understand the Ukraine didn't want to remain a Moscow satellite, just as I understand my own nation doesn't want to be under the US shadow, no matter what they do to the contrary. Putin is old school communist and old school dictator, my way or the highway stuff. No matter what you think about your emperor he doesn't have the will to stop him. We must stop thinking about the Russians as some sort of backwoods place, they were living in palaces and conquering Europe when you were still living in log cabins. The Ukraine was, until recent history, an integral part of "Russia" and there is a lot at stake for Russia, not the least of which is control of their pipelines. Having said that, the Russian incursion is unacceptable

It makes the same sense to remove the seperatists as it did to open fire on the crowds in Ferguson
is that what you think happened there ? What distorted press gave you that info ? A cop was forced to resign for pointing his rifle at the crowd . The cops used tear gas and were attacked with Molotov cocktails .

We must stop thinking about the Russians as some sort of backwoods place, they were living in palaces and conquering Europe when you were still living in log cabins. The Ukraine was, until recent history, an integral part of "Russia" and there is a lot at stake for Russia, not the least of which is control of their pipelines.
indeed we must .We must also stop thinking of Russia as a conquered nation which surrendered it's national identity when the Berlin wall fell.

Having said that, the Russian incursion is unacceptable
and so is Kiev's heavy handed response in eastern Ukraine .
Ukraine rebel-held city Donetsk left in ruins after shelling (http://www.news.com.au/world/ukraine-rebelheld-city-donetsk-left-in-ruins-after-shelling/story-fndir2ev-1227042273525)

You think they were heavy handed, I saw video of a fire fight, I doubt there has been a fire fight like that since WWII, certainly not in the UKraine. They haven't been fighting seperatists they have been fighting Russians, Russian troops on special leave with heavy weapons. I saw another vide of a russian train, with rocket launchers and heavy tanks. I think what happened is the Ukrainian army walked into a trap. There are stories of Russian tanks destroying villages, who are they fighting. You side with the Russians. It will serve you well when they take New York. I would say it is the Russians who destroyed Donetsk just by being there, same tactics they used at Stalingrad, draw the enemy in and encircle them then hit them with tanks

The west and Russia should've concentrated on things they have in common ..like the threat from jihadistan and China .Instead the west saw a weakened Russia ;and took the opportunity to expand NATO ,(an alliance that was looking for a purpose in the post-cold war world ), to Russia's borders. Russia gained back a degree of it's strength ,due to western foolish energy and monetary polices ,and decided to draw a 'red line ' at Georgia and Ukraine . The proposition that NATO was a defensive alliance with it's actions in the Balkans ,Libya ,and it's eastward expansion is a dubious one .
It did not have to be this way .The US has reacted very similarly when Soviet expansion threatened our borders. What did you think Putin would do ? allow Sevastopol to become a NATO base ?
I don't apologize for his actions ;but I do understand his motivations .It has nothing to do with expanding Russian territory ,or rebuilding the old Soviet Union.
What should be done ? I support federalism as the most logical governing model for Ukraine .

Nato and the EU have been working with the Ukraine for years until the pro Russian puppet tried to derail what they had done.

The EU as a good neighbour | Socialists & Democrats (http://www.socialistsanddemocrats.eu/policies/eu-good-neighbour-0)

European Neighbourhood Policy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Neighbourhood_Policy)

U.S. Embraces EU Leadership on Ukraine It Recently Cursed - Businessweek (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-02-20/u-dot-s-dot-embracing-eu-leadership-on-ukraine-it-recently-cursed)


The EU accounts for about a third of Ukraine's external trade, with Russia the other large trade partner. The EU also is the major source of foreign direct investment in Ukraine -- although such investment has dropped by more than half in the three years of Yanukovych's term, to $7 billion from $15 billion in 2008 and 2009, according to the state statistical office.

Putin's Role

The EU and the U.S. share a broad geopolitical concern that Russian President Vladimir Putin is seeking to lock Ukraine in Russia's orbit even as many Ukrainians aspire to expand ties with the EU. The anti-government protests were sparked by Yanukovych's November decision to back out of a pending free-trade pact with the EU in favor of ties with Russia, which offered $15 billion of aid and cheaper natural gas.

I think we are seeing the results of expansionist american policy, just like the communists they will not stop until everyone is in their sphere of influence, to borrow from the Borg, resistance is futile

Actually the Russians have an agreement with the EU themselves,

Russia–European Union relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93European_Union_relations)


Russio-European relations are the international relations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_relations) between the supranationalEuropean Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union) (EU) and its largest bordering state, the Russian Federation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia), to the east. The relations of individual member states of the European Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_state_of_the_European_Union) and Russia vary, though a 1990s common foreign policy outline towards Russia was the first such EU foreign policy agreed. Furthermore, four European Union-Russia Common Spaces are agreed as a framework for establishing better relations.

But of course the more rhetorical form you use was to enhance the Borg reference right? If not co-operation by mutual AGREEMENT cannot be seen strictly as expansionism nor assimilation.

the EU is a utopian failure .The futility is thinking that the diverse continent can be incorporated into a single entity . some choice the Ukrainians are given . statist socialism no matter which way they look.

Well Tom they were looking to the EU so the choice was theirs and they were making it but not as a member but economic cooperation. On the american continent a number of diverse states formed a union and continually expaned it, why would you deny the europeans the same opportunity. What you have here is a waining power trying to cling on to empire

the American model of states forming a union around a central government with limited defined powers was broken years ago by the utopian progressive movement . I fully expect that given time ,and knowing European tendencies ,that the EU will devolve into a dictatorial empire.

Well of course the course of republics is to form empire, isn't this what you are accusing Owbama of. The reasons for this are obvious and you can see them in your own government. Representative government reaches the stage where progress cannot be made and executive decisions lead to bypassing an intractiable house of representatives however called, Charles tried it in England and almost succeeded but was replaced by an even more formidable potentate. Putin has made the Duma a rubber stamp

http://nationalmemo.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/putin-in-ukraine-1024x703.jpg

Plausiable deniability