I am posting this on behalf of my sister.

She Wrote -

Where do I stand if I decide to stand up to them and say enough is enough?

This is the short version, I will go into more detail as we go along. I hope you can help me. I am in need of some serious advice.

Got 2 grandchildren living with me 6 & 10. Dad in prison, mum (my daughter) on drink and drugs unfit to take care of children.

Have a whole squad of people involved - all to do with the kids or my daughter. Don't seem to have anyone I can get some impartial advice from.

I have a nice home, gave up a very well paying job to take care of the children.

I am taking care of the kids and trying to help my daughter whenever I can. I'm told I have to forget about my daughter and concentrate on the kids.

I have meetings at my house, the most people to date who have attended was 18! In one meeting. I feel so overwhelmed by them all at times.

The kids are seeing therapists.

I have them in after school clubs which they enjoy. They also have a weekly visit with mum and they visit their dad in prison on occasion.

My problem is that I don't agree with some of the things being done, said and asked - I have had to relate my own life and childhood to them.

They all sit there asking questions about me my past, my family, the kids and my children.. and then proceed to fill in forms.

I am getting very angry with the whole thing but do not want to upset anyone because I have the threat hanging over my head that they might change their minds any day and place the children with a stranger. I don’t have custody yet.

I'll leave it there for the moment and hope to hear from someone in the know very soon. I don't know how much more of this I can take.

If they would all go away, the kids and I would do just fine.

Can you let us know at what stage the custody hearing is in? It sounds as if you are between a rock and a hard spot in this mess. It sounds as if you are doing all you can for the grandchildren but why all the meetings in your home ? Are they from childrens' aid?

"Can you let us know at what stage the custody hearing is in? It sounds as if you are between a rock and a hard spot in this mess. It sounds as if you are doing all you can for the grandchildren but why all the meetings in your home ? Are they from childrens' aid?"

My sister is not always available. If I may I would like to answer what questions I can on her behalf. We are in UK. This may make a difference to anyone giving advice from outside the UK.

She is being bombarded with the type of custody she should go for. On the other hand she has her daughter against custody because she is afraid of losing her children. She is having trouble getting her head around what her mum, my sister, is trying to do. She is afraid of losing her children. We have trouble making her understand that if her mum doesn't have them, they might be placed with foster parents.

Social services is involved. Children were take from parents, grandma said she would have them. The fist couple of meeting held in her home, we believe, was to make sure it would be a safe and good environment for the children. My sister has a lovely home, the children's bedroom is fixed up very nice. She takes very good care of them.

The 18 people were social services, someone from kids school, each child has an appointed guardian and a welfare worker each, and a therapist each, two or three people who are appointed as impartial advisers. Personally it just seems like a lot of fuss for nothing. Overkill.

Okay their parents have their problems but we are a big close family. I am the oldest of five, we all have children and we all have grandchildren. I too have a grandchild living with me, his choice, he will be 14 soon and has been with me for two years. I did got to court to get a residency order but I never had no where near the hassle my sister is having.

They tell her what to do, what meetings to attend, send her on courses, and tell her who she can and can't leave the children with while she attends meetings that they set up at the strangest times - like when she has to get the kids to school.

My sister and I are in our fifties, we need help taking care of children again, it's not like the help isn't there. We can and do help each other a lot. But that doesn't seem to matter to these people.

I have personally thought about telling her to stand up to them and ask them to back off a bit because she is doing just fine. But I think she might have enough people telling her what to do right now.

She is beginning to wonder how other people would deal with the situation so I suggested putting it on this board.

Thank you for your time.

Hello blue:

I don't think child raising by committee works. Especially when most of the committeemen are worrying about covering their butts instead of the children. However, we've bureaucratized our systems to the point where they don't work.

Maybe we should bring in some consultants to prepare a study...

Sorry to be so cynical, blue, but maybe she should move with the kids to Fiji.

excon

excon,

Thanks. Lol

If it was up to me and I was in my sister's position, I think I would just stand up to them. Tell them all where to go. There are a lot of kids out there a lot worse off. We are quite a big family, we help each other. We can do this without these people. I wanted to encourage her in that direction but I'm not sure she can handle that at the moment.

Thanks.

If it was up to me and I was in my sister's position, I think I would just stand up to them. Tell them all where to go. There are a lot of kids out there a lot worse off. We are quite a big family, we help each other. We can do this without these people. I wanted to encourage her in that direction but I'm not sure she can handle that at the moment.
I'm afraid it's too late to tell them to just butt out. They are already involved, and legally, they have to follow it through, regardless of how absurd or counterproductive the outcome may be. I think the best you and your sister can do is try to convince the bureaucrats that you really do have the children's best interests at heart, and that you have the physical, emotional and financial capability to provide for them what they need. I know it's bound to be frustrating to be investigated like a criminal when you're trying to step up and do right by your grandchildren, but that's the way the system works and I don't see that picking a fight with the bureaucracy is going to lead to anything positive for you or the children. I wish you all the best in a very difficult situation.

ordinaryguy,

I guess you're right. Might just make things worse. I will just try to help her and hope that it all sorts itself out soon.

It sounds as though this is a necessary step in getting legal custody, in which case you have to go through the proper steps. If so bite the bullet, and hang in there.

Who does your sister have?? Is there anyone in that whole process that she can say "Look, I have to be honest with you. Having 18 people in the house throwing questions at me is really beginning to overwhelm me."

From a different perspective I can actually see the value in all of this. Everyone learns the same information at the same time and they can all work together to offer the kids, their mom and your sister what they need while ensuring that the kids are in the best situation. It is also probably best that the meetings aren't with each organization separately. Can you imagine how many meetings she would have to attend then!! What they don't understand is that it IS very overwhelming at times.

I do think it is good to have each child have their own guardians, but I can't understand why they each have to have separate therapists and welfare workers. She could address this in one of the meetings. I think it's GREAT that the school is there, as well as impartial advisors, too.

How long is this expected to continue? I understand that her daughter is struggling with the custody issue, but it really is in the kids best interests at this point. A temporary custody order with regular, supervised visitations, a request that she gets into a treatment program followed with weekly drug tests, and a review every six months might help her feel better.

My guess is they are concerned with what happens if/when the father gets out of jail as well as the fact that your sister helps her daughter as much as she is able. They probably want her to back off so that her daughter hits bottom and makes the changes necessary to work towards getting her children back. They may (and I certainly hope not!) feel that your sister may not be a good parent because her daughter is an addict who married a con! (Nothing like blaming the victims!)

Do you have support groups for Grandparents raising grandchildren in the UK? I know there used to be. If not, there are some good online support groups both in the U.S. Canada and I think even Australian & New Zealand that she could join for emotional support if nothing else. (You too!) It might be an idea that she could talk to the impartial advisors for input and advice.

As for them making appointments, sending her to classes, telling her what to do... she does have the right to question these, say she doesn't feel that they are necessary and why, etc. She should be adamant that the 'meetings' must be done while the children are in school. I know it sounds even more overwhelming, but I really do think she needs an advocate of some kind there for her, too. It doesn't matter who they are, just having someone to support her concerns, etc. would be valuable.

Hope this helps, but I know it is an awfully complicated process!

Love, Didi

Hang in there whilst these processes take time and are invasive to your own life it will all be worth it to see your grandchildren happy in your care. It is a sad world that causes our children not to be able to take care of their own but you are doing what comes naturally looking after your own! Your daughter will eventually learn to give up what she currently relies on and pull herself together until then concentrate on those beautiful babies and do whatever it takes to make them feel secure!

Don't forget to take time for you, even if it is only 10 minutes in a hot bath you must be exhausted!

Talaniman,

"It sounds as though this is a necessary step in getting legal custody, in which case you have to go thru the proper steps. If so bite the bullet, and hang in there."

I think you may be right. I was all ready just to throw in my 2 pence worth but she has enough to deal with. I have heard you all and decided just to continue to do what I can to help. And try to be a good ear when she becomes overwhelmed and feels like venting.

Thank you for helping me put the brakes on. I think you're right, it would only make things worse.

I will, instead, encourage her to keep her eye on the end goal - the kids.

Didi,

Thank you. You made some really good points there. I will share them with her soon, and hope it helps her to put things a little more into perspective and avoid being so overwhelmed my them all.

louie1,

"It is a sad world that causes our children not to be able to take care of their own but you are doing what comes naturally looking after your own!! your daughter will eventually learn to give up what she currently relies on and pull herself together until then concentrate on those beautiful babies and do whatever it takes to make them feel secure!!"

Thank you. That gave me goose bumps. I will pass this on to my sister. I'm sure all of you lovely people's words will help her take stock of her situation. It has also helped me to know what I should do to help and not just add to the situation. Thank you, all.

Didi,

Thank you. You made some really good points there. I will share them with her soon, and hope it helps her to put things a little more into perspective and avoid being so overwhelmed my them all.

You are welcome. I hope so too! Just let her know that despite feeling overwhelmed, she DOES have a voice in all of this. If she doesn't speak up they may see it as a weakness. I think she needs to be as open and honest as possible. They don't expect her to be a superwoman, but sometimes 'we' fool them into thinking we are then don't know what to do with it when we know we can't keep it up! (Been there, done that!) :)

I would love to be kept updated on this situation. As another grandparent who took on a grandchild, I feel like I have a vested interest. :rolleyes: Heehee!

Love, Didi

Didi,

Will do. I took in one of my grandchildren too. Think I covered his story already. Mind sharing some of yours? Only if you want to and only as much as you are comfortable with.

As a grandparent trying to do the best for them, I can only say never give up! As hard as it is sometimes my children and their kids, are so well worth it. Don't quit on them just because it gets hard to do. Please don't!!

No intentions of quitting, talaniman. Thanks for the support.


Didi,

Thanks for sharing and for all your advice. Sooo helpful.

You are most welcome. Please feel free to share any of the personal information that I shared with you to your sister. I am here if you/her need me.

Love, Didi

Update:

My sister's daughter went into rehab, is still struggling a bit but is beginning to see that the children are being well taken care of. My sister is coping better, and is standing up for herself more. The kids are more relaxed and look happy. Dad is out of prison and is doing better than mum at the moment. He thinks he can help her. We have our fingers crossed.

The bad news, my sister's daughter is pregnant again! She won't be allowed to keep the baby but she can't take that in and is planning for it's arrival and thinks she will have the kids back and they will all be one big happy family. I'm afraid she is in for a very rude awakening. And all I can do is be there for my sister. So sad. Such a sad situation.

Hi Blue. Thanks for the update. It is a sad situation as you say, but you and your sister are doing good and necessary work, so don't despair. Did your sister get legal custody of the children? I suppose when the new one arrives it will be a whole new circus to determine custody arrangements.

I am so sorry to hear about your sister's daughter. I can understand her struggling, though. The whole process IS such a struggle, but I guess if you look at the big scheme of things it's understandable. To put it in perspective, you just have to remember that many people who quit smoking have to quit 4 or 5 times before they stay off them. I am glad that your niece is beginning to see that her children are being well taken care of. It is very distressing that she is pregnant again... such a shame. Is your sister thinking of taking this baby in too? I am thinking that perhaps her daughter just isn't being put in a position where she has to face the truths of how her addiction is affecting everyone. Losing yet another child certainly doesn't seem to be smacking any reality into her head! You and your sis must feel so discouraged at times.

I wonder what would happen if a real hard line was taken? Does she have court ordered visitations? Does she see the kids at all? It is so hard when you have the kids, because you know the best thing is to cut all ties unless they are sober/straight, etc. If they have visitation that is difficult. If she continues to use, I suggest that your sister requests limited, supervised visitation with regular drug tests (if that is available there). The more that your niece must face the reality of her situation the better her chances are of at least straightening up and staying out of trouble. It has to be so difficult for the kids.

At any rate, you are correct. There isn't much else that you can do besides be there for your sister. She needs all the emotional support that she can get. She is lucky that she has you, Rose. I honestly don't know how she manages.

Warm hugs,
Didi

ordinaryguy,

Thank you for your kind words. My sister doesn't have legal custody yet. Still some confusion about what type of custody to go for. I have a residency order for my grandson which I got with no trouble because everyone was in agreement. It's a different story in my sister's case, as her daughter is still against any type of custody, and child welfare are still concerned about the children. If their mum would step back things might be different. But they are concerned that she still gets too much access to them being my sister's daughter, and my sister being unable to shut her daughter out completely. I don't see why she should have to so long as she has the kids interest at heart and she has. Still a sticky issue but with time things, and kids getting older, things will get better. We just have to hang in there.

Didi,

It is very distressing that she is pregnant again. More so because no one wants the baby. My niece is much worse now than when she had her other children. It is believed that this child, if it survives, will have lots of problems.
Sounds awful harsh I know but it might, in the long run, be better for the child to be placed with someone who can take proper care of it. My sister and I are in our late fifties, we wouldn't be able to take care of a baby.

"I am thinking that perhaps her daughter just isn't being put in a position where she has to face the truths of how her addiction is affecting everyone. Losing yet another child certainly doesn't seem to be smacking any reality into her head! You and your sis must feel so discouraged at times."

Very true. She lost a baby at three weeks old. At the time, we thought that would give her the 'awakening' she needed - it didn't. There is no chance of her facing the reality of her situation, she has sunk as low as she can. She has a terrible aggressive temper and uses it against anyone who tries to point out the reality of her situation. She is on drugs and drinks constantly but manages to pull herself together when visiting with the kids. My sister refuses to let go of her daughter and I have to admit that I would be the same. We have accepted her as she is and we know any change in her situation must come from her and her alone.

Oh, hun, as you are aware, I KNOW exactly what you mean when you say "My sister refuses to let go of her daughter and I have to admit that I would be the same. We have accepted her as she is and we know any change in her situation must come from her and her alone." I just wanted to say one thing about that... Sometimes, when you really, really love someone, the love gets in the way of healing. Sometimes, especially when the person you love has addictions, the most selfless and loving thing that you can do is let go. Hopefully, when you are strong enough to do that, it will be the last thing that is necessary for the addicted person to truly hit rock bottom. Usually that will result in one of two ways: 1. the addicted person goes deeper and deeper into the addictive lifestyle until they do hit a point where they either die or pull themselves together; or 2. the addicted person is shcoked into reality and goes for the necessary help.

I know it's difficult. I have watched many grandparents raising their grandchildren go through the same thing. As an addiction counsellor I watched many addicts go through the same thing. The thing is, (and this is just my opinion, sweetie) no matter which of the outcomes your niece might face by being "cut off", the children, you and your sister will be better off. Those wee ones must learn early on that their mother's lifestyle is unacceptable. Your sister must learn that it's okay to say no. She is getting stronger, but if she isn't careful, she will be going through similar times with those grandkids and it will wear her out and leave her feeling hopeless and helpless. I think that showing respect and concern for the little ones AND herself will go a very long way with her daughter, the grandkids, social services and her general well-being.

I also support your family's decision in not taking in the baby if it survives. Raising grandchildren is not an easy task at the best of times. It is even more difficult when the parent is an addict, and can be pure hell if the grandchild(ren) suffer from Fetal Alcohol Syndrome or similar disorders. Your sis (and you) already have your hands full.

Anyhow my dear, you know that I am around if you need to talk.

Love & Hugs, Didi

Didi,

Thank you for your frankness. I will support my sister with the knowledge and advice you have passed on to me, it will be very helpful. I try to avoid getting sucked into the drama, and the information you have provided helps me to be objective and firm when I have to be.

Thank you for taking the time to help.

You are so welcome, Rose. Every situation is different of course. I have been fortunate(?) enough to have lived through all sides of it and to see many of the women in my grandparent's group raise their grands into adulthood. That makes it much easier to see things that I could never have predicted 12 years ago when I took my grand-daughter in. I have seen grandparents struggle so much despite their love and commitment. I have seen the long term effects in so many children of abuse, neglect, fetal alcohol syndrome, attachement disorders, etc. I have seen so many grandparents become so sick, even die, with stress related illnesses, or illnesses which become worse due to the stresses of raising their grands. People who don't do it have no idea. Sometimes it is difficult to find the supports we need. It is not uncommon to see your friendships peter out and you can become so isolated when everyone your age is past raising children and into travel and careers and other endeavors while we are teaching our grands the ABC's or coaching baseball. I am NOT saying people should not do it! However, we do need to learn to set limits, draw the line, recognize when we must start saying no. There is a time and place that we need to put our own needs first... even before the grandkids or our adult children... because if we don't our health (both physical and emotional), our finances and our esteem can suffer incredibly. If that happens we are useless - we fail to be able to do what we set out to do.

Every child is different, every parent and grandparent is different. However, sadly, quite often, no matter how much we build these kids up through the years, they feel like something is missing. This can be worse if they see their parents put alcohol and drugs ahead of them. Add a poor self-esteem, a feeling of abandonment and the usual teenaged issues together; throw in a learning problem, anger issues, physical prolems or fetal alcohol issues - the results can be disastrous. All of these things are possibilities, and your sister doesn't just have one child to deal with. Luckily, she has lots of support... so, as I said to you a long time ago, on one hand it's a pain... but on the other hand it is a blessing. When they are 4 you just have no idea what you might be up against at 16. :)

I am glad that you are strong enough not to be sucked into the drama yet remain supportive to your sister. She is very lucky to have you.

How is your young fellow doing? I hope things are better for him.

Hugs, Didi

Didi,

I have taken a copy of that and I plan to show it to my sister. She needs to know that she will be no use to anyone if she doesn't take care of herself too.

My young guy is at this moment getting ready for school. Still no sign of his dad visiting but his step mum has visited a few time with my other little grandsons. She is only now coming into the realisation of the real situation and wants to make an effort to see my young guy, her stepson. I encourage this as much as possible. It has been a tough two and a half years at time just trying to get them all to get on and understand what happened and why. No one's fault really, just circumstances.