It is a Christian point of view that everyone sins.
Since sin is considered evil does that make everyone evil?
Peace and kindness,:) :) :)
Fred (arcura)

Hello arcura,

Did Jesus not say "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone' I think when the crowd were about to stone Mary Magdalene to death?

The reason he said this I believe is because no man (or woman) is without sin.

If sin is evil and everyone sins, I can only assume that God & Jesus must be pretty lonely in Heaven as presumably no sinner can enter the Kingdom of God and as we all sin none of us can go to Heaven.

Like most things in the Bible, this is open to interpretation. I personally believe it is the degree in which we sin, the frequency and harm we do when we sin. Quite probably the pleasure we get from committing those sins are also taken into account.

I also believe that, according to the Bible, confessing your sins and asking forgiveness for the sins we have committed allows us entry into Heaven. However I am not so sure about that. Does this mean that before Hitler took his life and if he asked to be forgiven for the evil acts he was responsible for, and what he was about to do (commit suicide) he was forgiven and allowed to enter Heaven.

I am afraid I hope not.

This of course only my thoughts on your question.

I hope they make sense.

Cy

poseidon,
I understand what you are saying.
I believe that God will be the judge of who goes to heaven and who does not.
I also believe that heaven is not a lonely place now because I believe there are many thousands saints there already.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Of course we are evil... we are man. We would all be damned to Hell if it weren't for Jesus Christ.

However, I believe it is said that there is no sin greater than another. A sin is a sin is a sin. It is not "okay" to commit certain sins just not others. You don't need more "hail Mary's" because the sin you committed what greater than the last or the next.

Of course we are evil... we are man. We would all be damned to Hell if it weren't for Jesus Christ.

However, I believe it is said that there is no sin greater than another. A sin is a sin is a sin. It is not "okay" to commit certain sins just not others. You dont need more "hail Mary's" because the sin you committed what greater than the last or the next.

I agree with most of what you are saying, but I wonder about 1John 5 16-17. Witch talks about a sin that is unto death and a sin that is not unto death. I would say, yes it is never okay to commit sin however; it seems that some sins can do even greater damage to you relationship with God.

I agree with most of what you are saying, but I wonder about 1John 5 16-17. Witch talks about a sin that is unto death and a sin that is not unto death. I would say, yes it is never okay to commit sin however; it seems that some sins can do even greater damage to you relationship with God.

I don't believe in the mortal/venial sin theology... If this is what you actually are describing from the 1John passage.
I see the "sin that does not lead to death" as: Someone or something we should pray for - ex. A brother/sister may be sinning occasionally but you pray for them to be repentant -& they are.
Sin that leads to death is continuous unrepentant sin from a believer also- But God, to stop the person from sinning, takes his life.(physical life)

That's all I wanted to answer now- Have a good evening.

Yes, everyone is evil - that's why you should not make friends or marry as they are all evil.

I believe that we are evil in ways. I don't believe that we are EVIL.. but believe that we make poor choices and sometimes cause evil things. So Yes and No. This is a really hard question.

Here is a good example. My brother has a bb gun and about 1 year ago shot at the ground about 2 feet from me. We said he made a stupid choice, but he is not stupid. He has A's and B's on his report card.

Kriscool

Kriscool,
You have made a good point.
I agree that mankind is not evil even though men and women do evil things from time to time.
If we WERE evil through and through I think God would not be willing to save our souls.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcira)

This is an interesting post and I have read through everyone's responses. If you don't mind arcura, I would like to piggyback some queries to extend the discussion. These thoughts have always bothered me regarding men and sin.

I think everyone is in agreement that all men (women) sin. The degrees to which we sin are not really the issue for me. I am wondering what everyone's thoughts are on this:

If we all sin, and we are all made in God's image, then it would stand to reason that he sins (or sinned) too. How do we reconcile that? Is that possibly how our souls are able to enter the Kingdom of Heaven because no one is without sin?

Since sin is considered evil does that make everyone evil?
I don't believe that sin and evil are equal at all.

Let's look at the 7 deadly sins. Although each of them may drive someone to do evil things, I don't think any of them in moderation on their own is evil, however some do believe they are all sinful.

Wrath, Lust, Greed, Envy, Pride, Gluttony and Sloth. None of these are evil on their own. They do not hurt anyone, they do not take advantage of anyone, They are just pure emotions. The things that these sins may drive someone to do however, could be evil.

Discuss?

Capuchin,
I agree for the most part that those sins you mention seem less harmful than what they can berth into. But you know that still the Bible calls sin evil. We don't sin in a vacuum & a lot of times others are affected by the consequences of our sin. Right you are, in our lust (sin) one can actually harm another & give them an STD; a sin of gluttony can have harmful effects to others by eating all the food & letting someone else starve.
While there are six things that the Lord hates, seven are detestable to him:
haughty eyes, lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devise wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissention among brothers. (Proverbs6:16-19)
So, It isn't that we are evil per se, it is the action(sin) that is evil since we all have free will. Now depending on the outcome of those actions- full-blown sins can look like very evil deeds. Whether the person is now considered evil-yes, I believe that there is an extreme where a person is controlled by Satan, to do his will and they are evil.

All of us sin.
However God forgave us all from our sins before we ever made them.
All we must do is except Jesus Christ as our savior, and ask for forgiveness of our sins and we will be forgiven. That's it, really simple huh! Well that's my belief.

No ,it does not make you evil . When you sin its absolutely normal unless its premeditated sin which is usually thought about over and over and again. If you sin and you are sincerely sorry and want forgiveness you go and ask God to forgive you if you really mean it. This sometimes could take a lot because if you are in bondage of something those walls need to be torn down.

Example:Say you go out to a club and you drink, smoke or whatever you then go home and realize that you have done wrong in Gods eye.You ask for forgiveness and he forgives you.The rest of the weekends for the entire month you find yourself still going to this place or doing whatever it is you do .God going to wash his hands clean with you. Now it takes a lot of time for that to occur because of time in Gods eye.
*Let me know if you want to understand a little deeper.*

RubyPitbull,
I think you missed the point that God made man in His image BEFORE man fell into sin.
Man used his "free will" to disobey God.
God can not disobey Himself.
Peace ans kindness,:) :) :)
Fred (arcura)

LOL, now you tell me.



Yes, everyone is evil - that's why you should not make friends or marry as they are all evil.

RubyPitBull said "If we all sin, and we are all made in God's image, then it would stand to reason that he sins (or sinned) too. How do we reconcile that? Is that possibly how our souls are able to enter the Kingdom of Heaven because no one is without sin?"


Genesis 1:27 says, "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them." The word "image" in Gen. 1:27 means "likeness, resemblance." This does not mean that we are clones of God. Deuteronomy 4:35 states, "You were shown these things so that you might know that the LORD is God; besides him there is no other." Genesis 1:27 is stated by God prior to the fall of man. Genesis 2:17 says, "but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die." God is clear here in stating that sinning will result in spiritual death. When Adam and Eve sinned, they felt exposed & ashamed which resulted in the spiritual death. Their relationship with Father was tarnished and would not be the same anymore. The first sin has passed on to us and future generations. God gave Adam and Eve a choice, but they chose to be deceived by Satan. We are not any different today. But God provided a way out by offering a perfect and sinless Lamb to replace our sins. God made it simple for us--Follow the ten commandments and accept that Jesus paid our debts on the cross and offers salvation for free. God desires to spend eternity with us, because He loves us to the infinite degree.

cocoagirl,
The point is that God made man in His image BEFORE man fell into sin by disobeying God.
God cannot disobey Himself.
Therefore there is no foundation to the thought that God sins.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

Compare to a sky without clouds represents our basicnature- clean heart a source of all goodthings, the time a person stands with god. He can express his soul through spiritual actvitivities.otherwise dim. It totally depend on the situation , choosing jesus or satan.

nasar,
Yes it does!
Peace and kindness,
arcura (Fred)

Bible+comonsense=RIGHT ANSWER.

I hope that others on here will bear with me it seems that I have some catching up to do I have recently come to this forum and am still learning to navigate it. This is the first discussion I have spent any real time reading through and I have really enjoyed reading the opinions expressed. I saw several statements that I would like to put my two cents worth in on so I'll try to make it brief.

BTW I am already impressed by the respect shown the viewpoints of others here.

God made man in his image in that he made man a spiritual being as God is a spiritual being.

DrJizzle I agree with you a sin is a sin is a sin all will send us to hell if we die in our sin. (without repentance) However there is one and only one that is unforgivable… That is Blaspheming, Grieving, or Denying (they’re all the same thing) the Holy Spirit.

RubyPitbull God is perfection He cannot sin. Let’s take a very simple example Lying… I have a black telephone on my desk (really I do) I’m in conversation with God and he tells me it is white. Is he lying to me? No because he who spoke a word and it came to be has said it is white therefore the phone is no longer black it has become white.

Welcome chaplain john!
I enjoyed you post.
You make a good point.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

In the Image and Likeness of God

Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.” 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. (Genesis 1:26-27)

Its easy to be a sinner than to be holy... GoD does not ask us to be HOLY but to somehow AVOID committing sins... If we are created in HIS likeness, then I assume we are also GOOD inside... it is US and not HIS likeness that makes us commit sins... maybe out of curiosity, or peer pressure or short to say, an outside force that makes us commit such sinful acts...

Just my point of view... Peace

pretty_in_pink
The thing that is a basic cause of us sinning is concupiscence.
Concupiscence is a subject worth much study.
Desire that is good vs. desire that is bad and much more.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

bible+comonsense=RIGHT ANSWER.

I disagree, cheese and peanut butter are not such an appealing mix.

In the Image and Likeness of God

Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.” 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. (Genesis 1:26-27)

Its easy to be a sinner than to be holy... GoD does not ask us to be HOLY but to somehow AVOID committing sins.... If we are created in HIS likeness, then i assume we are also GOOD inside... it is US and not HIS likeness that makes us commit sins... maybe out of curiosity, or peer pressure or short to say, an outside force that makes us commit such sinful acts...

Just my point of view... Peace

It is the Flesh portion of us that is hardest to control. It says Sin feels GOOD and wants to do it. The trick is to build up the Spiritual part of us through fasting, prayer, and reading God's word until we can by the power of the spirit and with the help of God"s Holy Spirit overcome the desires of that flesh. Thus having accepted the gift of salvation by grace offered by Jesus, which was bought at such terrible cost to him, we can strive toward holiness.

Compare to other religions, this is only a christian point of view that every body is sins. Soul, mind, and body these 3 joining in human being. In the level of soul every one is pure gold. But in level of mind thoughts and knowledge about surroudings and also ego came . Possible engage in good or bad activities then happen, mainly bible mention about this in a possibility level, Bible is a religious text with different type of explanations is possible some particular subjects.

No it is very clear that He (Jesus) never sinned. We are all made in his image, but we screw it up by sinning. Sin is what comes between our relationship with Jesus. All have sinned and fell short of the Glory of God... I went years understanding this logically or in my mind. When I was 33 I finally understood this in my heart. When you really want to know the answers that you have for God, just ASK HIM. Believe me he will answer.:)

krystal1973
Very goo post.
God answers yes, but one must listen closely for He speaks very softly most of the time.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

No it is very clear that He (Jesus) never sinned. We are all made in his image, but we screw it up by sinning. Sin is what comes between our relationship with Jesus. All have sinned and fell short of the Glory of God... I went years understanding this logically or in my mind. When I was 33 I finally understood this in my heart. When you really want to know the answers that you have for God, just ASK HIM. Believe me he will answer.:)

I am a Christian so don't get mad. But when he was young didn't Jesus push another kid off the roof and then bring him back to life? I am not too sure where I heard this, and also think that if he did there was a reason for it.


3534

I am a Christian so don't get mad. But when he was young didn't Jesus push another kid off the roof and then bring him back to life? I am not too sure where I heard this, and also think that if he did there was a reason for it.

That is not in the Bible. That may be a story from an apocryphal gospel. It is not from the word of God.

That is not in the Bible. That may be a story from an apocryphal gospel. It is not from the word of God.

Of course, he's God, he can make people forget that such a thing happened.


"Look into my eyes look into my eyes not around the eyes look into my eyes *click* you're under, when you wake up you will not remember me ever pushing that kid off that roof and then bringing him back to life, in fact you will act as if such a thing never happened. Oh yeah and while i'm at it stop wearing socks and sandals together, it's terribly unfashionable. Three two one...*click* you're back in the room."

That's how I see it going anyway.

Matt, This may have been just a story that you heard when you were little, but it is no where to be found in the Holy Bible. You will never find one occasion in the bible where Jesus sinned. He did kick some tables over when he was older, but of course he was doing it for a reason, but he never pushed anyone off a roof.

I am a Christian so don't get mad. But when he was young didn't Jesus push another kid off the roof and then bring him back to life? I am not too sure where I heard this, and also think that if he did there was a reason for it.

What? Where do you find this in the Bible?
You should hold your tongue about such things especially when Christians are supposed to know that Jesus was without sin-and he took on all our sins for us at the cross.
I don't appreciate false testimony about the Lord. We are commanded not to lie.

Rev.22:15, Outside are the dogs, those who practice magical arts, the sexually immoral, the murders, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Christians should repent from any blasphemy against Christ In my opinion!

Blasphemy... and from a Christian too...

Anyway, everybody sins at some point in life. But does that make us evil? No. Jesus (for those of you that believe in him) died for all of uor sins. Our sins can be repented, and therefore, be forgiven. Jesus's death on the cross is a reminder to Christians to attempt to do good unto others. If you sin, all's still good, just make sure to mention it during confession. Otherwise... when you die, you go down there.

well, if you read the bible, there is only one way into heaven.
it clearly says "I am the way, the truth, and the life, and there is no way to my father, except through me"(jesus said this)

also, ruby pitbull, we were made in his image, but sin was introduced to us after god created us, by the devil, in the form of the serpent, by using temptation. Since then, we have been tainted by temptation and sin, and heavens doors have been closed to us, for we have all sinned.
yet, through gods amazing love, he sent his son to Die for us, for our sins, he basically went and said "okay guys, im going to get tortured on a crucifix and die, then go to hell, and serve all of your sentences in hell for you, as a proxy, so you can all go to heaven, you just gotta accept what i did for you, and accept me"

How devil can entered a holy place like heaven.

Did anyone here say he did/does?

Did anyone here say he did/does?

Read Job

Edit: Sorry, I didn't mean to be brusk I'm a little short for time this morning.

If heaven is a place without sin, who give the entrypass to devil.

if heaven is a place without sin, who give the entrypass to devil.

Again I say read the book of Job.

if heaven is a place without sin, who give the entrypass to devil.
You made me think there nasar. Yes, in Job, the Old Testament times the devil had uninvited meetings most likely, in heaven. And any passage would have course have to be allowed by God himself.
I clipped this from a Christian website. Keep in mind that according to Pastor John Hagee's cd-the mystery woman in Rev.12 is Israel. So even Rev. is coming together for me to understand. But here is an explanation for your question.

Quote:
Back to the Devil. What power does He and His massed armies of demons really have on this planet?

When our glorious Lord returned to Heaven after conquering Satan by taking upon Himself (by dying the most horrible death on the cross) the sins of His creations, He threw Satan out of heaven.

Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in Heaven: Michael (One of our Lord's chief Archangels and army commander) and His angels fought against the dragon (the Devil); and the Dragon fought and His angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in Heaven.

9 And the great Dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and His angels were cast out with Him."

Earthly imagination cannot even begin to conceive of the magnitude and dreadfulness of this Heavenly war (for it was a war in the spiritual sphere) in which the third of the angels in Heaven who had followed Satan in His rebellion against God's authority were thrown out of Heaven.

Revelation 12:4 "And there appeared another wonder in Heaven; behold a great red dragon…, his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and didst cast them to the earth."

9 And the great Dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and His angels were cast out with Him."

So! Right here right now are zillions upon zillions of evil spirits doing Satan's bidding of inhabiting/ affecting/infecting people's bodies and minds and causing every type of strife and chaos imaginable.

Luke 8:30 "Jesus then asked him, what is your name? And he answered Legion (a multitude, thousands upon thousands); for many demons had entered him.

31 And they (the demons) begged (Jesus) that He would not command them to go out into the abyss.

32 Now a herd of many swine (pigs which were absolute anathema to the Jews) was feeding there on the mountain. And they (the demons) begged Him (Jesus) that He would permit them to enter them. And He permitted them.

33 Then the demons went out of the man and entered the swine, and the herd ran violently down the steep place into the lake and were drowned. (New King James).

So although demons prefer to inhabit and control humans, they can inhabit animals and other creatures.

Ephesians 6:12 "For we are not wrestling with flesh and blood — contending only with physical opponents — but against despotisms, against the powers, against [the master spirits who are] the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spirit forces of wickedness in the heavenly (supernatural) sphere." (Amplified).

Satan can control the weather as well as people and events, and armies and sickness and disease. If you read the first two chapters of JOB in your favorite translation you will see this truth. BUT! Our Lord and Saviour JESUS CHRIST can and will give us complete protection from the Devil and His hordes of demons if we ask Him through the Holy Spirit in His name.

Luke 4:10 "For it is written, He shall give His angels charge over thee, to keep thee."

Psalm 91:11 "For He will order His angels to guard you wherever you go." (Kethuvim).

Hebrew 1:14 "Are they not (our guardian angels) all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation." end quote.

I would have to say the sin is evil not the person. " Hate the sin but love the sinner."

There is not a soul walking on this earth that can truthfully state that he or she is not a sinner... That is something I do know for a fact. As far as them being evil I am torn. I think we all have a little evil in us. Sometimes it is simple things we do or don't do. What separates it being a complete bad act or though is if we have remorse for what we do, say, or feel. If I hurt someone with words and have no remorse I believe that makes it an evil act. Where as if I feel sorry for it and actually repend and try to redeem myself it makes the scenario a lot different. Hopefully what I have said makes sense to at least one of you'll... lol

Man was made in the image of God but the image became distorted when he sinned. The punishment God established for sin is death. We inherited that distorted image, and sinfulness from Adam along with the death penalty.

Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

However, God ignores that sinfulness and looks at us as if we are reflecting his perfect sinless image because Jesus' Ransom Sacrifice paid the price for our sins--death. So the answer to the question is, yes, we all sin. But if we accept Jesus' Ransom Sacrifice, then God will view us as if we are not sinners and grant us eternal life.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

If you do a little word study, you will discover that the root for the word "sin" is actually an archery term meaning "to miss the mark".

According to the Bible God created all of us for a purpose. Sinning is "missing the mark" of what that purpose is.

The Bible tells us Jesus knew no sin. In other words, he never missed the mark of what his purpose was. In other words Jesus in the only one in history who a had a perfect life without any mistakes even though he was tempted.

Evil on the other hand is deliberately harming others so that you yourself will benefit, whether it be through fear or pride, or both.

So in answer to your question:
Is everyone evil, or does everyone make it their life goal to harm others so they can gain from it? No
Does everyone make mistakes? Of course

How far does sin extend? How responsible is the soldier who follows the orders of his superiors to massacre an entire village? How responsible is the worker who helps make the Zyklon B gas in a factory, whether knowing or not what purpose it will be put to? How responsible is the man who shuttles the victims to their final destination? How does this affect the people who denied entry to the refugees, or sent them back to their doom? Or that one or few times in your life that you thought, "I hate -----", for whatever reason?

It is a Christian point of view that everyone sins.
Since sin is considered evil does that make everyone evil?
Peace and kindness,:) :) :)
Fred (arcura)

Fred:

Your question looks deceivingly simple on the surface, however as it turns out, it required a pensive response. I contend that while no man is sinless, with the exception of Christ of course, we have hope in obtaining holiness in obdiance to the Divine Will.

Baptism wipes from the soul original sin which becomes justified by the infusion of a sanctifying grace of faith. Concupiscence is likened to the temporal result of sin. Concupiscence is best defined as desire of the lower appetite which is contrary to reason, a self-gratification of the human nature which subordinates reason. Desires contrary to good and right reason dispose one to solicit the consent of the will. Hence "The flesh lusteth against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh."

Still hope abounds,” That being delivered from the hand of our enemies, we may serve him without fear: In holiness and justice before him, all our days.” (Luke 1:74-75) For Holiness is the outcome of sanctification, God freely justifies us. Holiness, hagiosyne in 1 thess. 3:13 and hosiotes in Luke 1:75 provides a firmness to constrain concupiscence to serve the Divine, contemplation of Supreme Truth, and for the Love of God. From which God charitably extends His assurance , “that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor might, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Rom. 8:38-39)

Finally we come to the question, is any man sinless? No. However, we can say with confidence that, even though born stained of original sin, our faith in the baptismal promise of hope we receive God's Charity in the disciplines of holiness. It is this way we persevere, “with fear and trembling work out your salvation.” (Phil 2:12) Faith, hope and charity (Cf. 1 Cor 13:13) to be followed in “peace with all men and holiness: without which no man shall see God” (Heb 12:14)


JoeT

i would have to say the sin is evil not the person. " Hate the sin but love the sinner."

I can't agree with you Lacey.

Sin is immorality that rests in our will to formally or materially cooperate with evil. Evil being a perversion of form or order or measure found in the natrual order. That is to say that sin is from us in disobedience to Divine Will. In this sense it is of the person.

You have within you the will to be either sinful and condemned or holy and redeemed; it's in this we find Divine Justice.

JoeT

Joe,
'I do believe you are right.
Fred

Satan can control the weather as well as people and events, and armies and sickness and disease. If you read the first two chapters of JOB in your favorite translation you will see this truth. BUT! Our Lord and Saviour JESUS CHRIST can and will give us complete protection from the Devil and His hordes of demons if we ask Him through the Holy Spirit in His name.

While this is true, we must remember that we operate within a body because we know that one man does not make an army; nor does one house constitute a kingdom. When divided a kingdom fails, a divided household fails, and divided a man becomes schizophrenic. Luke chapter 11 teaches that a disordered or sinful body is a divided body which cannot stand against satan and his evil minions. Satan can control only those who wish to be controlled, those separated from the Body of Christ. Consequently, we should see fears of possession as unfounded

Christ teaches the Pharisees that demons cannot be cast out in the name of Beelzebub; which was the custom at the time. To do so would be catastrophic for the little devil, we all know that a house divided cannot stand. Likewise, portions of the militant Church cannot stand when divided. Accordingly, being of the Kingdom of God, we must cast out demons in the name of God (not Beelzebub), whereby we command the full body of his armies'; those militant, those persevering, as well as those triumphant. Our home is not swept clean (Cf. Luke 11:25-26), ready for a new tenant, rather we garrison the ramparts with faith that we are “converted from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a lot among the saints, by the faith that is in me.” (Acts 26:18)

Consequently we find ourselves awake, armed, and ready for spiritual battle with the power of God's “grace sufficient for power made perfect in our weakness" (Cf. 2 Cor 12:8) Even still, you'll find that being part of the Kingdom of God allows you to “take unto you the armor of God, that you may be able to resist in the evil day and to stand in all things perfect (Cf.Eph 6:13). Be secure in the knowledge that, although a pawn, one can advance on the king of darkness when moved by the hand of God; for “the devils also are subject to us in thy name…Behold, I have given you power to tread upon serpents and scorpions and upon all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall hurt you.” (Luke 10:18, 19). “With fear and trembling” we dwell in the protected body of Christ in our perseverance; One body, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic.

JoeT

JoeT777,
Marvelous response.
Fred

"Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous, He who does what is sinful is of
the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeard was to desroy the devil's work. No one who is born of God will
continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; He can not go on sinning, because
he has been born of God." 1 john 3:7-9

We who are born again have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus, and do not
continue in sin and we love our brother and sisters. We donot have evil in us.

Maggie 3

We who are born again have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus, and do not
continue in sin and we love our brother and sisters. We donot have evil in us.

Maggie 3

Really? Nobody who is born again ever sins after that? That's a pretty strong claim, if I've understood you correctly.

Maggie 3
We may not have evil in us BUT everyone sins.
Even the saints have admitted they sinned and needed to confess their sinfulness and ask for forgiveness as the bible directs.
Peace and kindness,'
Fred (arcura)

This is an interesting post

Lol! Good to see you again. And its good to see the atheist corp slowly straggling back with a new more respectful attitude. I hope it remains that way.

What happened, did you guys get sick of Credendo?


and I have read through everyone's responses. If you don't mind arcura, I would like to piggyback some queries to extend the discussion. These thoughts have always bothered me regarding men and sin.

I think everyone is in agreement that all men (women) sin. The degrees to which we sin are not really the issue for me. I am wondering what everyone's thoughts are on this:

If we all sin, and we are all made in God's image, then it would stand to reason that he sins (or sinned) too. How do we reconcile that? Is that possibly how our souls are able to enter the Kingdom of Heaven because no one is without sin?

Two questions:
How do we reconcile that?

I'm sure you're familiar with the story of Adam and Eve, right? We believe God made Adam and Eve without sin and with a free will.

Let me back up. "Sin" means to disobey God. But at its core it means "separation from God." Adam and Eve were given free will so that they could freely choose to love God or to leave God. They chose to leave God and expressed this sentiment by disobeying His Word. Therefore they chose to obey the creature, the Serpent and to disobey God.

In so doing they committed the first sin. Which is known as the Original Sin.

As you probably know, the Church teaches we are all born with Original Sin. So how could we be born with a sin we didn't commit?

Well, Original Sin is not an actual sin in us. It is the absence of Original Justice and Holiness. To understand that concept, lets say you have $1 million dollars. And you take them to a casino, put them all on red#4 and lose.

Now you're penniless and derelict and your children will not inherit that $million because you no longer have them to pass on.

Same thing here. Adam and Eve threw away their holiness and could no longer pass that on to their children.

Next question:
Is that possibly how our souls are able to enter the Kingdom of Heaven because no one is without sin?

The simple answer is "no".

Scripture is clear that nothing "impure" will enter heaven.

So, in order to enter heaven, one must be pure. The Church teaches that in order to do that we must undo what Adam and Eve did.

What did Adam and Eve do? They disobeyed God.

How do we undo that? By obeying God.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

I hope that helps.

Don't be a stranger. I've always enjoyed our convesations.

Sincerely,

De Maria

I said we have no evil in us, we sin but are forgiven.
Read1 John 3:4-9

Maggie 3

"Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous, He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeard was to desroy the devil's work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; He cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1 john 3:7-9

We who are born again have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus, and do not continue in sin and we love our brother and sisters. We donot have evil in us. Maggie 3

Then what do we do with the man who had the unclean spirit driven out; was he not saved when the demon was driven out? Now with a soul swept and garnished, failing to armor himself with his faith, finds his soul newly possessed, not with just one demon, but seven new evil spirits. (Cf. Luke 11: 24-9)

If we are always saved then why would the Lord separate the impatient, but long waiting, servant? Isn't a servant of the lord saved? “But if that servant shall say in his heart: My Lord is long a coming; and shall begin to strike the men-servants and maid-servants, and to eat and to drink and be drunk: The lord of that servant will come in the day that he hopeth not, and at the hour that he knoweth not: and shall separate him and shall appoint him his portion with unbelievers.” (Luke 12:45,46)

If believers, once saved, are “salt of the earth” then why must the salt be tested for taste? After all in Col 4:6 asks that our speech always be seasoned with grace. What good is salt that's lost its flavor? (Cf. Luke 14:34,35)

And how is it a few signs of wonder will deceive the elect if once saved always saved? For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Behold I have told it to you, beforehand. (Matthew 24:24,25)

If once saved always saved, then why do we always obey, not only in His presence but also in His absence with fear and trembling. (Cf. Phil 2:12) If we are always saved then what's to fear?

Why discipline the body, as if readying for spiritual war if there is no possibility of losing salvation? (Cf. 1 Cor 9:27).

But, more important why does Christ tell us that the only way to redemption is to “eateth My flesh and drinketh My blood hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day (John 6: 55). This is the only way to everlasting life.


JoeT

I said we have no evil in us, we sin but are forgiven.
Read1 John 3:4-9

Maggie 3

Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Baptism forgives actual sin and the original sin we are born with. We only receive baptism once in our life. Now I suppose that we could be baptized just before exhausting our last breath - only this way are we once saved always saved.

JoeT

Joe,
Right you are again.
Once saved always saved is a misinterpertation of Scripture, a heresy.
In many ways the bible proves that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred.

Joe,
Right you are again.
Once saved always saved is a misinterpertation of Scripture, a heresy.
In many ways the bible proves that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred.

Fred:

Somewhere on these pages tell us how you're trip went!

Your support is always appreciated

JoeT

Joe,
I mentioned it to De Maria on another thread.
I had a marvelous Christmas up by the Canadian border and feasted Jesus Birthday in three different homes with USA and Canadian relatives and friends.
The trip up there was fine but coming home it snowed for several hundred miles so that was a bit worry some.
Happy, prosperous New Year,
Fred

I don't believe God looks at us as evil per say but rather he sees us as children who either reject him or fall short of his expectations. Neither does he judge our sins in degrees but rather if we repented from them or not. Jesus is our mediator and or savior so all we can do is give it over to him.
Like the one Christian bumper stickers say
Christians aren't perfect just forgiven
Christian under construction

Joe,
I mentioned it to De Maria on another thread.
I had a marvelous Christmas up by the Canadian border and feasted Jesus Birthday in three different homes with USA and Canadian relatives and friends.
The trip up there was fine but coming home it snowed for several hundred miles so that was a bit worry some.
Happy, prosperous New Year,
Fred

That's wonderful. Its good to have you back. Although I really haven't participated much since you left either.

N0help4u
Thanks for your thots on that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I don't believe God looks at us as evil per say but rather he sees us as children who either reject him or fall short of his expectations. Neither does he judge our sins in degrees but rather if we repented from them or not. Jesus is our mediator and or savior so all we can do is give it over to him.
Like the one Christian bumper stickers say
Christians aren't perfect just forgiven
Christian under construction

N0help4u:

I can’t find myself agreeing with you. Primarily because man can be evil in and of himself, and to suggest that God tolerates sin would be an error. While all do fall short in sin the effect is the degree to which sin impedes our love of God. Who judges or mediates is not part of this discussion. But, the Church does provide a means of redemption though the sacrament of confession; real redemption – removing sin, not simply justification – a covering of sin. Furthermore, sin can have more or less harmful effects in how it separates us from our love of God.

Sin is any willful inordinate action having an evil effect. Evil is perverting the form or the order or due measure of the natural order; the natural order is good being that it was created by God. Conversely, evil cannot be the originated by God, thus only man is capable of the first cause of sin. Original sin is a voluntary act (ex parte actus) to be distinguished from actual sin not by the deliberation of the act, but by the affect of disorder in our relationship with God (ex parte deordinationis). Both Original sin and actual sin can be further divided into two forms (Also see my previous post to Lacey5765, post 50)

Acts of sin can be divided into venial or mortal sin. St. Augustine highlights the primary distinction of characteristics wherein mortal sin “merits damnation” as opposed to venial sin which does not. The primary danger of venial sin is that it predisposes one to mortal sin. St. Thomas explains, “It is written (Ecclus. 19:1): 'He that contemneth small things shall fall by little and little.' Now he that sins venially seems to contemn small things. Therefore by little and little he is disposed to fall away together into mortal sin.”

The seven common capital vices that lead to mortal sin are pride, avarice, gluttony, lust, sloth, envy, anger. The division of sin into mortal or venial forms cannot be subdivided into class. Rather, mortal sin cuts off the sinner, whereas venial sin mealy impedes the sinner.

Source: St. Thomas Aquinas, The Summa Theologica, I-II Q88 (http://www.newadvent.org/summa/2088.htm)

JoeT

I am not saying man is not evil. I am saying that he still loves us and we either accept him and ask forgiveness or we reject him.
We divide sin into groups but can you tell me that God says he forgives the glutton while he does not forgive someone that gossips? I believe it is about God knowing your heart more so than sin itself. He forgave David and Paul. Why because he looks at the heart and not necessarily the sin itself.
I believe that is where the Church goes wrong with trying to 'win people to Christ' They get caught up in deciding someone is too evil or hardhearted rather than what God can do to bring them to repentance.
That is what I mean, we tie God's hands with our limitations of categorizing everything.

Moses kept the passover. Why? To keep the death angle away. Jeaus is our pasover
And we have the'Lords Supper' or Communion for the same reason and Paul teachers
Us how we should do this. " The teaching I give you is the same teaching I received
from the Lord; On the night when the Lord Jesus was handed over to be killed, he
took the bread and gave thanks for it. Then he broke the bread and said "This is my
Body which is for you. Do this as a memorial to me." In the same way after they ate, Jesus took the cup. He said, This cup is the new covenant effeted by my blood, do
this whenever you drink it as a memorial to me." When you eat the bread and drink the
Cup what you are doing is proclaiming the death of the Lord until he returns.
Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner
Will be quilty of sinning against the body and the blood of the Lord'. (1cor 11: 23-27 )

My husband and I take communion everyday for the same reason Moses kept on keeping Passover. To keep away the death angel who would creep into our families
Spiritually and into our hearts personally. We do this in our early morning prayer
Time as we put the day into God's hands for guidance and direction. Biblically the
Bible does not say when or how often we should take communion. When you take
Communion you do it in remembrance of Jesus dying on the cross for us and for remission of sin.
God knows our hearts !

Maggie 3

JoeT777 ,
Very good explanation , that.
Example...
Gossip can result from pride, envy. Anger, or all three.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

....My husband and I take communion everyday for the same reason Moses kept on keeping Passover. ....

Very good thought. Thanks.