Hi

I am a tenant in a house which "we"/my family have rented for 10 years. Our Landlord died suddenly and unexpectedly. She owned 3 houses. One she lived in, the other stood vacant and we live in her parents house. She was an only child, no husband and no children. She worked in a major organization for 37 years. Our lease was renewed in May 2013 and is valid for one year with a 3 month notice period should we choose to terminate the lease (it is not clear if the landlord would provide the same notice period for any reason - or whether the one year commitment was to be honored by her).

18 very distant cousins emerged and one has taken ownership - administering the estate via the surrogacy court in NJ as no will was found - although friends, colleagues and those who knew her believe there had to be a will has she had verbally communicated her wishes regarding the heirs of her property many times.

I need to know what our rights are as tenants and our "new" relationship with the "new" executor of the estate. The distant family who are taking over the estate want to sell all three homes. There is property of the now deceased landlord in the house we live in and they want it removed from the house.

What right do the new executors of the estate have to 1) entry to the house, 2) can they terminate the lease giving a 3 month notice period - or is that in the interest of us as renters? 3) If they choose to sell the house - which they appear to be heading toward - are they obligated to have our lease honored for the full year before bringing in prospective buyers or are they permitted to do this at this time. The lease was renewed in May 2012 so we technically have until the end of April 2013 for the lease to be honored. My concern is that they want to sell, are offering us the option to buy immediately. If we do not choose to buy the property are they permitted by NJ law to bring in prospective buyers NOW? Or before our lease ends? At the end of our lease I understand the renewal can be on a month to month basis - are they obliged to offer the additional time and negotiate our stay on the property?

Any advice relating to this very distressing situation for us a renters will be very much appreciated. What are our rights? Do the laws change by town/city or or they overseen at State Level?

Please offer any constructive advice and knowledge.

Kindly

TS

Correction - the Lease was renewed this May 2013 and is valid until April 30, 2014 --- I was one year out.

TS

I would suspect the 3 month period works both ways, but you have to get a legal opinion on that.

Otherwise they have to honor the lease and so would new owners.

They can show the house with reasonable notice. Usually 24 hours.

Your rights are basically what is spelled out in the lease subject to state law. Most landlord/tenant laws are on the state level, but some municipalities may have stricter laws.

Your new landlord has to honor the terms of your lease. I would have to see the language regarding the 3 month termination but from what you've said here it sounds like only you have the right to terminate the lease early, not the landlord.

The landlord is allowed to show the property during reasonable times and with reasonable notice. That means that if they call you and want to show the property in an hour, you don't have to agree. It also means that they cannot have a realtor put a lockbox on the property.

If you stay until the end of the lease term the landlord is required to offer you a renewal of your lease unless they intend to sell the property and the buyer wants to move in. So I would not count on getting a renewal of your lease after April, 2014.

This is the link for the NJ Truth-in-Renting handbook: www.nj.gov/dca/divisions/codes/publications/pdf_lti/t_i_r.pdf. It spells out all of your rights as a tenant in NJ.

As for suggestions, I see that you have the following options:

1. Buy the property. You've lived there for 10 years and appear to be comfortable, so if it's feasible this would be a good time to do it.

2. Offer to move out early in return for the landlord giving you 3 months rent plus your moving expenses.

3. Stay there until the end of the lease term.

Good luck!

Hi ScottGem

I spoke with a lawyer earlier today (Monday) and he said mentioned some towns/cities having their own laws. I could not find anything on my city services/site other than housing for people with lower income/needs.

Thank you for you information.

Your new landlord has to honor the terms of your lease. I would have to see the language regarding the 3 month termination but from what you've said here it sounds like only you have the right to terminate the lease early, not the landlord.

The landlord is allowed to show the property during reasonable times and with reasonable notice. That means that if they call you and want to show the property in an hour, you don't have to agree. It also means that they cannot have a realtor put a lockbox on the property.

If you stay until the end of the lease term the landlord is required to offer you a renewal of your lease unless they intend to sell the property and the buyer wants to move in. So I would not count on getting a renewal of your lease after April, 2014.

This is the link for the NJ Truth-in-Renting handbook: www.nj.gov/dca/divisions/codes/publications/pdf_lti/t_i_r.pdf. It spells out all of your rights as a tenant in NJ.

As for suggestions, I see that you have the following options:

1. Buy the property. You've lived there for 10 years and appear to be comfortable, so if it's feasible this would be a good time to do it.

2. Offer to move out early in return for the landlord giving you 3 months rent plus your moving expenses.

3. Stay there until the end of the lease term.

Good luck!


Lisa

I appreciate your input. I seem to be pretty much on the "same page" as what you have said and it is helpful to have some clarification/agreement.

I have another question. If we were to buy the property - which is a possibility - would the executors of the estate be obliged to wait for us to see our lease through if we need the extra time before buying? Also if they found a buyer - would the new owner (if it weren't us) be obliged to honor our lease?

The executor - newly appointed initially sent emails requesting rent to be sent to himself and his wife - at which point I consulted with a property lawyer who was kind enough to hear me out, tell me not to panic and told me to write back to them - asking for proof of their role as executor through the NJ Surrogacy Court and also to list all maintenance required on the property/payments to be made for services received and not yet paid. Last week I received a letter claiming we were "behind" on our rent payments and to send proof of all payments for this year. We have never defaulted on a single payment in 10 years, 3 months. I sent him copies of payments (checks) for the past 18 months as well as a copy of the account holding the rent for July and August. I sent a check for these two months now that he is listed as the Executor, has cc'd a lawyer and also set up an account in the name of the deceased - estate.

I am very thankful for your response. I do have a few more questions... if you are willing to respond.

Hi

This is a continuation of an earlier thread. I have some additional questions. The executor has an enormous job - I understand that this must be a major undertaking for some one who barely knew their very distant cousin - with the added pressure of other cousins all wanting in on their inheritance.

The deceased landlord's friends are convinced there is a will - although at this point if the said executor has located one it is possible he may have destroyed it. The memorial service was awful - with the mourning friends and colleagues and somewhat happy-go-lucky cousins going through the motions. I was approached by a "cousin".. when I introduced myself by name the response was I know who you are - you are the tenant of x house. "Thank Goodness someone is living there and paying rent?" which I felt was horribly inappropriate although has given me an idea of what I am working with.

The house we have leased for 10 years has the deceased land lady's very old belongings (50's deteriorated furniture) in the attic and an old 1950's vehicle in the garage we have not been able to use. The executor (I understand he needs to evaluate the overall value of the estate) - wants to have all her possessions removed and has asked if we know if she left keys for the car here. We have had nothing to do with any of her belongings. Is it fair to ask that they clean up after removing her belongings? The attic is very dusty and I anticipate that whatever comes down from it is going to create a trail of dirt. How long (length of time) is fair to let them get their "stuff" out of the property. I am prepared to co-orperate, although at the same time I feel they need to be fair to us as well. This entire situation has been extremely stressful. My son attends a school in the area - we have to live within a 1 mile radius of the school and he is special needs. On that note - if the executors were to look for other buyers (if they did not offer a price we could realistically afford or consider) - at what point could they bring potential buyers in to view the property and also if they were to put up a "for sale" sign when could they do this? We would like to keep our son somewhat unaware of the unraveling events until we know where we stand with the property and the placement of signs on our door step and trails of people through the house are not going to be helpful to him or us. Any ideas. I know I have a lot of questions. I am very happy to receive any reliable information which is constructive and helpful. One of those life circumstances one doesn't expect to be faced with - I have a book I could write about the events of the past 2 months.

Thanking you in advance.

TS

So, tell them, that they can give you advanced notice when they will have a moving crew into get the property. And that of course they crew will clean up any mess they make.

This question should have been added to the first thread.
You were advised to get proof of the appointment as executor. If she did have a will, she would have named one herself.
Just because someone 'destroys' a copy of a will, there should be one on file with a lawyer. It's a question of finding out who that is - or was. If the lawyer is gone or deceased, his or her files would be in the hands of another lawyer. If you have the time and inclination, you can contact all the lawyers in her town. Asking in writing (a very short note) would be best.

Regarding sale of property, nothing can be done until probate says it can. Heirs have to be identified if there is no will, and that takes time - a long time, so that everyone has time to find out about it (how long is up to the court, but you could call them and ask). Probate doesn't have to be finalized to put a property up for sale, but all official heirs have to be in agreement about it. If someone plunks a for sale sign in the lawn or brings in an agent, get a lawyer.
I would use a bit of reason and a bit of power. Tell them that you want to buy the house at the end of the lease, and that without a will, probate is going to take a long time anyway, easily even more than a year. Have an agent or two give you a suggestion. Go to the courthouse in town and find out the appraised value (not assessed value), which doesn't really give you a market value, but it's a start. Get a copy of the 'town card.' The tax assessor may be very happy to help you decide what might be a good market value (at least in the small towns where I have lived they have). Offer a below market price based on no 5 or 6% broker commission and ease of the sale in general. Don't ask what they want; tell them what you will do. With all their bickering they will probably welcome it.
Regarding removal of items, ask the probate court if the executor has permission to remove them. I would also tell the court that you are positive there is a will. If a will is found, there could easily be a different executor, and the one appointed now will be replaced. Reasonable time to let them in might be 48 hours, not raining, and they must bring drop clothes for the walk through areas, and vacuum when they leave. They might ignore you, but try to take some control.
You could hire a lawyer to handle all this for you, or you can do it yourself, unless you get to the point of major confrontation.

This question should have been added to the first thread.
You were advised to get proof of the appointment as executor. If she did have a will, she would have named one herself.
Just because someone 'destroys' a copy of a will, there should be one on file with a lawyer. It's a question of finding out who that is - or was. If the lawyer is gone or deceased, his or her files would be in the hands of another lawyer. If you have the time and inclination, you can contact all the lawyers in her town. Asking in writing (a very short note) would be best.

Regarding sale of property, nothing can be done until probate says it can. Heirs have to be identified if there is no will, and that takes time - a long time, so that everyone has time to find out about it (how long is up to the court, but you could call them and ask). Probate doesn't have to be finalized to put a property up for sale, but all official heirs have to be in agreement about it. If someone plunks a for sale sign in the lawn or brings in an agent, get a lawyer.
I would use a bit of reason and a bit of power. Tell them that you want to buy the house at the end of the lease. Offer a slightly below market price based on no broker commission and ease of the sale in general. Don't ask what they want; tell them what you will do. With all their bickering they will probably welcome it.
Regarding removal of items, contact the probate court to see if the executor has permission to remove them. I would also tell the court that you are positive there is a will. If a will is found, there could easily be a different executor, and the one appointed now will be replaced.
You could hire a lawyer to handle all this for you, or you can do it yourself, unless you get to the point of major confrontation.

Hi

Thank you for your response. I am a tenant in one of three houses. The other two houses were not leased. The landlord lived in one and the other stood vacant. Since I am not part of the "extended" friendship circle - those who are have tried many different ways to determine how to locate a will. If for example there is one in a safe deposit box and this "executor" has already been appointed - surely he can go in un-assisted and then tear up any will he comes across --- or is there a way he can be escorted into a securities/safe deposit area with another nominated person? As is - this has been an extremely stressful time and I do not feel I have the same amount of influence he friends have... and some are lawyers who have already approached the probate/surrogacy court to no avail.

The executor set up the memorial over two weeks post death of landlord... once police located and identified him as next of kind. At the memorial he went around getting signatures from other cousins to appoint him as executor of the estate - once the memorial was over he went to the surrogate court with the death certificates (or got them there) and essentially appointed himself as executor. Long time friends of hers have been told by the court that they are not next of kin - even thought they know what her wishes were regarding the estate. Apart from spending a good $20 000 and contesting this executor - apparently the chances of "over-throwing" him are around 30 - 40% - so it is not worth the risk for someone who does not have the extra money to take chances with.

The good friend of the land-lady who was in charge of maintainig the house we live in has now been told to keep out of the affairs of the estate - even though he has a lot of knowledge to offer - if they considered him as a resource. He is simply devastated and has tried all possible avenues to delay this process. The executor is spear-heading this process as fast as possible and wants to sell all the properties immediately. I simply asked whether they might consider a buy to own option or possibly be considered to buy the property (meaning at the end of our lease) - the last message I received the executor was going to have the Estate Agent/Broker contact me TODAY and he would notifiy me about a possible purchase this coming Friday. I understand that they want this behind them - however, my understanding is also that these processes take time and I an not going to be bullied by them if they plan on steam-rollerig over our lives because they want to fill their pockets. Sadly our concerns and needs are not going to be taken into consideration in this instance and I do not have the time to try and stall the process. That needs to be pursued by one of her friends/someone who is in the know and familiar with her properties and assets.

So the probate court will be able to tell me what they can remove? One useless lawyer - totally disinterested even though the knows the story of the estate said that they need to assess the value of all her assets so need access to the contents she has in the house. He also wanted to charge me $350 to review my lease - hence my entering this chat board. I have spoken with another lawyer who has provided some guidance so far. The past few days though have become more stressful in that they are claiming we had not paid all our rent (they had no record etc) --- all in a previous thread. We are absolutely up to date and have been for 10 years and 3 months. They are looking for ways to find fault. I guess the question I have for the lawyer who helped initially and whose voicemail I have left a message on is their rights to enter the property - to remove belongings. I am also going to advise her long-time friend (with a lot of knowledge) to write to other lawyers in town. The house we live in is in a different town to the other two houses.

Please re-read what I wrote. If there is a will, it is in the hands of a lawyer, even if not the original lawyer, and what is in a safe deposit box would be helpful but that is way out of your control.
And the executor cannot sell the house until the probate court says they can, and there is NO WAY it can be done this soon. Again, hire a lawyer if a 'possible sale' this Friday is in the works. You do have to let the agent in, but at your convenience.
You are letting emotion run amok, very understandable, but please, I put quite a bit of effort into my response.

Maybe you and the maintenance person can contact ALL local lawyers.

Please re-read what I wrote. If there is a will, it is in the hands of a lawyer, even if not the original lawyer, and what is in a safe deposit box would be helpful but that is way out of your control.
And the executor cannot sell the house until the probate court says they can, and there is NO WAY it can be done this soon. Again, hire a lawyer if a 'possible sale' this Friday is in the works. You do have to let the agent in, but at your convenience.
You are letting emotion run amok, very understandable, but please, I put quite a bit of effort into my response.

I appreciate your response and agree that there is NO way they can be moving this fast - that in itself is telling. I know they need to appraise the assets - however they have gone about this entire process in a very inexperienced way from the get-go - demanding checks be sent for rent to him and his wife. No I did not do that. He does have a lawyer of his own now. I will connect with the good lawyer tomorrow and will advise the good friend to connect with all possible lawyers in his town - I'm guessing from your response that the will might not be in a safety deposit box after all - but in the hands of a lawyer and not necessarilty an old friend of hers.

A copy might indeed be in a safe deposit box, but you can't possibly know.
Any will anywhere can be superceded by any number of later wills (dated later) and the court has to decide which is the last one, and if it's valid as to witnesses and notarizing.
I'm not saying there are multiple outdated wills. Just that the court will allow plenty of time for wills to surface. Even one will!
What does the 'good friend' connecting with 'all possible lawyers in his town' have to do with all lawyers in the deceased's town? Is it the same town?

The lawyer gave you good advice. Setting up an account to hold the payments until you knew who to send them to was a smart move. So was asking for proof that they were authorized to receive the payments.

As both Lisa and I said earlier, a new owner will need to honor your lease.

I'm not sure what you mean about them waiting to see your lease through. If you choose to buy the property, then the lease would basically end when you close. (unless you as the new owner want to honor the lease and pay yourself rent). But if you decide to buy they can require that you move quickly or sell to another buyer.

A copy might indeed be in a safe deposit box, but you can't possibly know.
Any will anywhere can be superceded by any number of later wills (dated later) and the court has to decide which is the last one, and if it's valid as to witnesses and notarizing.
I'm not saying there are multiple outdated wills. Just that the court will allow plenty of time for wills to surface. Even one will!
What does the 'good friend' connecting with 'all possible lawyers in his town' have to do with all lawyers in the deceased's town? Is it the same town?

It is indeed the same town and same neighborhood.

The lawyer gave you good advice. Setting up an account to hold the payments until you knew who to send them to was a smart move. So was asking for proof that they were authorized to receive the payments.

As both Lisa and I said earlier, a new owner will need to honor your lease.

I'm not sure what you mean about them waiting to see your lease through. If you choose to buy the property, then the lease would basically end when you close. (unless you as the new owner want to honor the lease and pay yourself rent). But if you decide to buy they can require that you move quickly or sell to another buyer.


Ok... If I choose to stay in the house until our lease is up and then buy (I cannot afford to buy the property immediately) - is that an option or are the executors of the state entitled to put the house on the market before hand?

Ok...If I choose to stay in the house until our lease is up and then buy (I cannot afford to buy the property immediately) - is that an option or are the executors of the state entitled to put the house on the market before hand?

And absolutely the emotions are running high... wouldn't yours - if you were in the same situation?

You have made several smart moves, including turning down offers to 'review your lease' for $350. I think you and friends of the deceased have the ability to find the will. Good luck.
I would even go to the probate court and have a short chat (just about finding the will) with the court clerk. Little things like that can help a lot.
The house can be put up for sale, and they can tell you to make an offer just like anyone else.
I do understand the emotional aspect. I went through a lot of hassle when my dad died and I was living with him and was a part owner of his house.

I merged your two threads, as Joy said, it should have been posted as a Reply to the original thread.

What happens with probate and a will is absolutely none of your business beyond confirming that the probate court has appointed an executor and who that is. How the executor chooses to dispose of the estate is totally out of your hands and I would NOT mess with that in any way. If anyone chooses to fight the cousin who is executor that not your issue. If the executor is hiding a will or anything like that, again, not your issue.

Your ONLY concerns are a) who is entitled to collect rent, b) who is entitled to sell the property and c) who is entitled to administer the estate. Making sure of those facts is all your should worry about. This other friend you refer to also has no part of this. Unless this person knows where a will is AND was named in it, she has no part of it. She might appear as a friend of the court to tell the probate judge what she knows, but unless she has proof, I doubt it.

Yes they are entitled to access (at your convenience) to appraise and/or remove the deceased's property. No, they wouldn't be responsible for cleanup unless they do damage.

You can follow the progress of the probate court since its public record. If the estate is simple it may not take that long to process. Once an executor is appointed, if the estate is not being contested, then the executor is empowered to act on behalf of the estate, which includes selling the properties.

Again, I must caution you about getting involved in the estate. All you need to know is about the estate is whether an executor was legally appointed and who that is.

Ok...If I choose to stay in the house until our lease is up and then buy (I cannot afford to buy the property immediately) - is that an option or are the executors of the state entitled to put the house on the market before hand?

They are entitled to put the house up for sale and complete a sale as long as they are duly appointed by the court and the court approves the sale. They are not required to wait until the lease is up, though selling a property with a lease will be harder to do.

I disagree with ScottGem on some of this (I don't usually).
Friends and tenants who all strongly believe that there is a will certainly can and should try to find it, and soon.
I live in a small town. I needed a copy of my mother's will not long after she died, and her lawyer died not long after she died. I had no trouble tracking it down. I realize that was a lot easier than finding the will period, but I think her friends can find it, and should, since the would be heirs aren't even close relations. What are friends for?
I also don't agree that probate might move quickly without a will.

The keys to how fast or slow probate moves is dependent on a) the complexity and size of the estate and b) the agreement of the potential heirs. What I'm reading here is that there are no close relatives. What relatives exist seem to have signed on for the cousin to act as executor. So there seems to be no one to protest or contest the disposition of the estate.

If the court approves, the executor can move to sell the assets ASAP, it may be awhile before the proceeds of the estate can be distributed to heirs. They will have to wait to make sure that all heirs and creditors are found and that takes the bulk of the time. But there is nothing that says the duly appointed executor can't dispose of non liquid assets to provide funding for the estate's expenses. As long as the probate judge approves. And proper accounting is done. The proceeds of the sale can then be held in an account in the estate's name.

By the way, rent checks should not be made out directly to the executor, but to the Estate of Deceased.

Its one thing for friends of the deceased to help the heirs with the estate at the heirs request. It is another for these friends to meddle in the affairs of the duly appointed executor. I will state emphatically, that the OP has no interest in the processing of the estate beyond where to pay rent and a possible sale of the property. Meddling in the estate can alienate the executor and make things more difficult, especially if they want to buy the house on favorable terms.

I'm going to agree with ScottGem on this one. The existence of a will is not your problem and you should not make it your problem. The situation is unfortunate but you have enough to deal with as it is.

Yes, they must honor your lease. Yes, they have the right to put a For Sale sign on the property and show the house to prospective buyers. If your lease does not mention anything about the landlord's right to show the property to prospective buyers then they must give you reasonable advance notice. They have the right to remove her possessions and they must repair any damage they cause in the process, but you have the right to be there while they do so.

Keep in mind that, even though they must honor your lease, they can sell the property at any time. They are not obliged to wait until the end of your lease. If you want to buy at the conclusion of your lease term you can request that they wait but they don't have to.

...Keep in mind that, even though they must honor your lease, they can sell the property at any time. ...

In other words, if the personal representative were to sell the property today, it would be subject to the lease. The buyer would become OP's new landlord.

I'm going to agree with ScottGem on this one. The existence of a will is not your problem and you should not make it your problem. The situation is unfortunate but you have enough to deal with as it is.

Yes, they must honor your lease. Yes, they have the right to put a For Sale sign on the property and show the house to prospective buyers. If your lease does not mention anything about the landlord's right to show the property to prospective buyers then they must give you reasonable advance notice. They have the right to remove her possessions and they must repair any damage they cause in the process, but you have the right to be there while they do so.

Keep in mind that, even though they must honor your lease, they can sell the property at any time. They are not obliged to wait until the end of your lease. If you want to buy at the conclusion of your lease term you can request that they wait but they don't have to.

Ok. I agree with most of what both of you are saying - although there are contradictions from what you said earlier. Without sifting back through the messages - I recall reading - If the executor or an agent put a "for sale" sign up to contact a lawyer... If the property were to sell to someone other than us - would the new owners be required to honor our lease to term? I am a bit confused about that now.

Also if they remove property from the house - the court needs to know/they should have authority provided by the court. If they said executor has been appointed then surely he takes on the role of the deceased and can in effect take whatever belonged to the deceased?

I have absolutely no intention of contesting who the executor is or the process. I have complied and will continue to comply with them - to as you say - keep a good relationship with the executor - as far as is possible. I simply need to know what my rights are and I like some of your advice about prospectively purchasing the property. I recall a mention about offering to leave three months early and having re-location expenses paid... and not asking what they want but to give an offer.

They do have a broker lined up to evaluate the property. He did not call yesterdays so I anticipate there will be a call soon.

With regard to the will and contacting lawyers - I will pass that information onto the people who are convinced that there is a will and that this entire situation is a mess - Not that I do not disagree with them - like you say rather keep out of the family's affairs. The probate court has not been helpful in listening to the people who have gone to ask for more time or contest the placement of the executor as they have been convinced there is a will.

From my own experience of the deceased, the way she managed her affairs and her very prompt management of her job or anything to do with the house, it is very difficult to believe that there would not be a will. She communicated to groups of friends and colleagues about who she wanted to have as heirs to her different properties. I have no interest in this - although being on the receiving end of this entire debacle has been very stressful. I have a home which I feel I am being forced out of. I have more reason to want to stay where we are - schools/special needs education etc and unfortunately it would appear that we will have to uproot and leave unless we buy. These people are money hungry and do not care about how this impacts anyone else. I know that sounds harsh - however, they are pretty blatant - they had a huge celebration on the day of the memorial and NONE of the cousins really knew the deceased so showed no emotion/loss/empathy/sympathy to those who did.

So tired of this entire situation - however, again I need to know what my rights are and I think I have a pretty good idea. Thank you. No I waited to receive the letter indicating where to pay the rent to and it was to the estate of the deceased.

I'll try to make this very clear...

The current landlord/executor must honor your lease. If they sell the property at any time during the term of your lease, the new owner becomes your landlord and they must honor your lease. You have the right to stay on the property until the end of the term of your lease no matter who owns the property.

You do not let anyone into the property unless they show you something in writing from the executor giving them authority to enter.

I'll try to make this very clear...

The current landlord/executor must honor your lease. If they sell the property at any time during the term of your lease, the new owner becomes your landlord and they must honor your lease. You have the right to stay on the property until the end of the term of your lease no matter who owns the property.

You do not let anyone into the property unless they show you something in writing from the executor giving them authority to enter.

EXCELLENT Thank you so much Lisa and Scott - this is very helpful.

I recall reading - If the executor or an agent put a "for sale" sign up to contact a lawyer....

I don't recall that, but I don't think you have much choice over that.


I simply need to know what my rights are

Your rights are the same as any tenant in NJ (which is very tenant friendly). Lisa linked you a good site that details that.


The probate court has not been helpful in listening to the people who have gone to ask for more time or contest the placement of the executor as they have been convinced there is a will.

A probate court wouldn't be. If you approach them with proof of a will or malfeasance, they will listen, but not to vague concerns.

I agree Scott although you don't know my circumstances. Also we got to know our landlord in our 10 year stay. This is certainly not what she would have wished for. I do believe if a will were to be found she would have accommodated us through a clause via the new heir. It is what it is. Perhaps with the markets improving now - it makes sense to buy. We looked to buy in our first year in this country. A year ago we were thankful we had not bought. There are still many foreclosures out there! Indeed one needs to prepare for the inevitable/even unexpected. I have found your responses very helpful. Please do not pass judgement - you do not know me. I am trying not to panic and to figure out what will work best given our family needs and circumstances.

I... Also we got to know our landlord in our 10 year stay. This is certainly not what she would have wished for. I do believe if a will were to be found she would have accommodated us through a clause via the new heir.....

The story is quite frequently repeated: decedent said often "I'm going to leave such-and-such to so-and-so". If the decedent failed to properly prepare a will and leave it with a reliable person or agency (Some places allow wills to be registered with the court to avoid lost-will issues.), that's just how the cookie crumbles.

If you believe that she somehow provided for you in a will, that's another story. By all means, check it out.

I agree Scott although you don't know my circumstances. Also we got to know our landlord in our 10 year stay. This is certainly not what she would have wished for. I do believe if a will were to be found she would have accommodated us through a clause via the new heir. It is what it is. Perhaps with the markets improving now - it makes sense to buy. We looked to buy in our first year in this country. A year ago we were thankful we had not bought. There are still many foreclosures out there! Indeed one needs to prepare for the inevitable/even unexpected. I have found your responses very helpful. Please do not pass judgement - you do not know me. I am trying not to panic and to figure out what will work best given our family needs and circumstances.

Please don't assume I'm judging you harshly. I fully understand and sympathize with your plight. I just think you are not being realistic in thinking that you would have had some arrangement to stay on the property. In fact, any clause in a will that forced an heir to allow you to stay would probably not be enforceable.

I also disagree with being thankful you had not bought. If you had bought 10 years ago, you might have slightly over paid for the property. But, if the mortgage and tax payments were within your budget, you would have built equity. The foreclosures out there are from people who bought more than they could afford and way overpaid. So when they hit hard times, they couldn't sell because they were upside down on the mortgage. I don't see you being like that. I think you would have purchased within your means.

I don't think you need to panic, because you have several months before you will have to deal with moving. You can try to buy the place, or start looking for a new place. But I do think you need to face that there is a strong likelihood you will have to move.

Thank you for all the comments! No further questions.

Thank you for all the comments! No further questions.

Please keep us posted as to what's happening.

PLEASE listen to me.
All of you, chip in on a lawyer to FIND THAT WILL. You don't need a lawyer to do this, but you seem too willing to subscribe to this notion that it's none of your business.
Of course it's your business.
There's no logic to the argument that it's none of your business because you are not named in the will. How does anyone know WHO is named until it's found?
She wrote one so find it!

PLEASE listen to me.
All of you, chip in on a lawyer to FIND THAT WILL. You don't need a lawyer to do this, but you seem too willing to subscribe to this notion that it's none of your business.
Of course it's your business.
There's no logic to the argument that it's none of your business because you are not named in the will. How does anyone know WHO is named until it's found?
She wrote one so find it!


There is only circumstantial evidence that she wrote one. If an attorney had it, they would have come forward by now. If it was in a safe deposit box or among her possessions, the executor would have found it but can block any search.

I strongly disagree here. Trying to find the will is going to be fruitless and can cause other problems.

'If an attorney had it, they would have come forward by now.'
As I alluded to earlier, lawyers die/retire/move, and their files go to other lawyers. This is more common than you might think, especially with the elderly client.