Hello,

I will be installing a wet bar sink in basement and will be using an enclosed pump system to pump the water up to the existing 4" main sewer line. The inspector was out here the other day looking at my underground plumbing, so I asked him about tying into the 4" main line.

He had said that if I can not get the wye to fit in easily, to use a pvc slip coupling with a metal band around it, and then also a pvc no hub adapter which is glued onto the pipe. I emailed the inspector this link asking if this is what he was referring too: Fernco 4 in. No-Hub Cast Iron x 4 in. Sch 40 PVC, Steel and Extra Heavy Cast Iron Neoprene Rubber Shielded Coupling-P3000-44 at The Home Depot (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Fernco-4-in-No-Hub-Cast-Iron-x-4-in-Sch-40-PVC-Steel-and-Extra-Heavy-Cast-Iron-Neoprene-Rubber-Shielded-Coupling-P3000-44/100372288#.Ua1Ur9h27-5)

And this was the inspectors reply: "That is the band, but you need a pvc no hub adaptor. It is a pvc fitting that gets glued on the pipe." Does anyone know what he is referring too?

Thanks,
Steve

Hi svaic00 and welcome, it would be best to get the inspector to clarify what he wants, it will save trouble in the long run, good luck

Hi Steve

Here is a picture of a 4" No Hub x 4" PVC adapter... see image. This fitting should be available at any plumbing supply store.

Here, most inspectors do not require this fitting... only the shielded clamp you posted. In your case, however, the inspector wants this fitting primed/cemented onto the PVC pipe and then you can install your shielded clamp to this fitting... just the way it goes sometimes.

If I understand here, you will need two of these... one on each end of a wye fitting and then two clamps to install onto the cast iron pipe. Build the wye with the no hub adapters, measure the overall length (end to end) and then add 1/2" to 3/4" max. to this measurement and cut that length out of the cast iron pipe. Install the shielded clamps, slide the clamps up the pipe a bit, flip the rubbers 1/2 way back on themselves and drop the fitting with adapters into place. Flip the rubbers onto the fittings, slide the clamps over the rubbers and tighten properly.

Back to you...

Mark

Its not a cast iron pipe, my main sewer line is 4" pvc. I am trying to figure out what is the best way to install the wye into the existing 4" pvc line. I would like to be able to just install the wye, with no hubs, couplers, etc, but I know it will be a tight fit, and not sure if I have the room to be able to maneuver the pipe, to get the wye to fit in properly by itself. So my next thought was to use a slip coupling, or the rubber sleeve with the metal band around it. But the inspector had told me that I need the adaptor, along with the rubber sleeve. I don't get why you couldn't just use the sleeve or slip coupling to join the pvc together without the adaptor. I have been told by others though that the slip couplers could have a tendency to leak.

Thanks,
Steve

If you use 4 of the PVC x NH adapters (2 on wye fitting and one each on the ends of the pipe) you can just drop the fitting into place and clamp it all up using the shielded clamps. See if that floats the inspector's boat!

If you use 4 of the PVC x NH adapters (2 on wye fitting and one each on the ends of the pipe) you can just drop the fitting into place and clamp it all up using the shielded clamps. See if that floats the inspector's boat!

Mark,

My goal is to try and get the wye in by itself, with no couplers or other fittings, but if I cant, then I will be using the coupler/adapter.

Update from talking with the inspector today and here is what he told me:

That if a rubber coupling with metal band is used (which would be the no hub coupler), then a pvc no hub adapter is required. The adapter would be glued onto the PVC and then the rubber coupling with metal band is what connects the adapter and other end of pvc line.

So what I get out of it is, is it would be the wye, then a section of 4" pvc, then the adapter, then the coupling, which would then attach to the 4" pvc, does that seem right?

He mentions this, because he said he thinks that just a regular slip coupler has a tendency to leak, and this route would be the better way to go.

Also, not quite sure why I would need 4 adapters.

Thanks,
Steve

I don't get why you couldn't just use the sleeve or slip coupling to join the pvc together without the adaptor.

Neither do I, except if you try to use a slip coupling you have to really work fast. With 4" it will probably stick after you slide it on and before you can get the other pipe lined up and slide it into place.


I have been told by others though that the slip couplers could have a tendency to leak.

A slip coupling shouldn't tend to leak any more than a stop coupling unless you don't glue the inside of the coupling which I think some people do. Gluing the pie and the inside or the coupling takes more time and increases the chances of it sticking before you get it in place.

Mark,
Could you sketch out how you would use the 4 NH adapters, I can't quite visualize it unless you are talking about a no hub wye.

Seems to me that the simplest thing would be to cut out a section of pipe, put in your wye, put in a make up piece of pipe, then connect the pipes with the shielded rubber coupling.

Is there such a thing as slow setting glue?

Neither do I, except if you try to use a slip coupling you have to really work fast. With 4" it will probably stick after you slide it on and before you can get the other pipe lined up and slide it into place.



A slip coupling shouldn't tend to leak any more than a stop coupling unless you don't glue the inside of the coupling which I think some people do. Gluing the pie and the inside or the coupling takes more time and increases the chances of it sticking before you get it in place.

Mark,
Could you sketch out how you would use the 4 NH adapters, I can't quite visualize it unless you are talking about a no hub wye.

Seems to me that the simplest thing would be to cut out a section of pipe, put in your wye, put in a make up piece of pipe, then connect the pipes with the shielded rubber coupling.

Is there such a thing as slow setting glue?



The inspector mentioned that if a rubber sleeve is used, the adapter is required.

The inspector and another plumber who is a good friends dad of mine, said the same thing with the tendency to leak. But the way you describe that, with having to work fast, with 4" pipe being so big, it may be hard to get a good seal on it, makes sense. Also both the inspector and plumber told me to use lots of glue with a slip coupler. I was always under the impression that lots of glue is a bad thing.

Which shielded rubber coupling are you referring to, is that the same one as the link I posted in the first thread?

Lots of glue with PVC means slower drying or set up time, not much but every little bit helps. However excessive glue is not recommended with CPVC. Yes, the link you posted is of a shielded rubber coupling. The one you posted is for cast iron to PVC, you would want one for PVC to PVC.

What about the adapter that Mark posted, that's for cast iron to pvc as he mentioned, is there a different one of those for pvc to pvc, or does that not matter? Any chance you could send me a pic or link for each the adapter and coupling that should be used?

Thanks,
Steve

Mark is under the impression you have cast iron pipe, I am under the impression you have PVC pipe. Now I understand what Mark is saying. What does the inspector think you have?

I also noted that you said that the inspector said. "if you had trouble connecting the wye" use the adapter and flex coupling. Was the inspector there looking at the situation, or was this telephone or email communication?
Sounds like he was making a suggestion, not giving a requirement.

No, no... Steve said it wasn't cast iron at post #4 so I am clear on that.

Here's my problem guys...

The inspector says to use the adapter and the clamp, right, but if you only use one adapter on each end of the wye fitting and then connect to the PVC in the ground using the shielded clamps you have 2 - clamp to PVC joints, which the plumbing inspector doesn't want or he wouldn't want the adapter, right? The inspector isn't making sense... ;)

Look, you can try the slip coupling if you want. The TRICK with slip couplings is to use a hammer and a piece of 2"x4" to hit the coupling down into the proper fit. It is NOT easy to do and you cannot prime the pipe or fitting, but you can put couplings in place and then cement all and then slide the slip couplings in place using the 2"x4" piece of wood and the hammer. You would make marks on the pipe as to where to stop the couplings.

Otherwise, you can use 4 adapters and two clamps. Here, as I tried to explain earlier (but apparently failed at), you would take your PVC wye fitting and prime/cement a 4"NH x PVC adapter onto each end of the wye fitting. You now have a wye fitting with two adapters on it.

Now, measure the length of the fitting and adapters and add 3/4" and transfer that measure to the pipe in the ground.

NOW, place two more adapters on these marks on the pipe in the ground. Here, place the NH end of the adapters on the marks and make new marks on the pipes where you will cut the PVC pipe in the ground. Then you make your cuts, and then you prime/cement the adapters to the cut pipe ends in the ground. The distance between the ends of these adapters once they are all cemented up should be the length of the fitting with adapaters PLUS the 3/4" max. that I mentioned (the 1/2-3/4" accommodates the rib in the rubber seals and allows for a less than perfect cut on the pipes).

Now, you'll install your rubber seals onto the end of the wye fitting adapters, flip them back on themselves and place the fitting between the adapters on the pipe in the ground. Flip the rubber seals onto the pipe adapters in the ground and secure with the clamps. In this way you have no PVC to clamp... just clamp to adapters. This is the only way the inspector should ask for this to be done if he is going to insist on a single NH adapter using PVC.

If that didn't make sense I can draw it up but it will take me some time...

Mark

No, no...Steve said it wasn't cast iron at post #4 so I am clear on that.

Here's my problem guys...

The inspector says to use the adapter and the clamp, right, but if you only use one adapter on each end of the wye fitting and then connect to the PVC in the ground using the shielded clamps you have 2 - clamp to PVC joints, which the plumbing inspector doesn't want or he wouldn't want the adapter, right? The inspector isn't making sense...;)

Look, you can try the slip coupling if you want. The TRICK with slip couplings is to use a hammer and a piece of 2"x4" to hit the coupling down into the proper fit. It is NOT easy to do and you cannot prime the pipe or fitting, but you can put couplings in place and then cement all and then slide the slip couplings in place using the 2"x4" piece of wood and the hammer. You would make marks on the pipe as to where to stop the couplings.

Otherwise, you can use 4 adapters and two clamps. Here, as I tried to explain earlier (but apparently failed at), you would take your PVC wye fitting and prime/cement a 4"NH x PVC adapter onto each end of the wye fitting. You now have a wye fitting with two adapters on it.

Now, measure the length of the fitting and adapters and add 3/4" and transfer that measure to the pipe in the ground.

NOW, place two more adapters on these marks on the pipe in the ground. Here, place the NH end of the adapters on the marks and make new marks on the pipes where you will cut the PVC pipe in the ground. Then you make your cuts, and then you prime/cement the adapters to the cut pipe ends in the ground. The distance between the ends of these adapters once they are all cemented up should be the length of the fitting with adapaters PLUS the 3/4" max. that I mentioned (the 1/2-3/4" accommodates the rib in the rubber seals and allows for a less than perfect cut on the pipes).

Now, you'll install your rubber seals onto the end of the wye fitting adapters, flip them back on themselves and place the fitting inbetween the adapters on the pipe in the ground. Flip the rubber seals onto the pipe adapters in the ground and secure with the clamps. In this way you have no PVC to clamp...just clamp to adapters. This is the only way the inspector should ask for this to be done if he is going to insist on a single NH adapter using PVC.

If that didn't make sense I can draw it up but it will take me some time...

Mark

The main 4" pvc line is attached to the bottom of the joists, not in the ground, so its like 8' above ground, not sure if that makes any difference at all with regards to the connection. The entire run is pvc. I am pumping the water from the wet bar, up 7', and then will drain it into the main 4" pvc line.

Why would you need adaptors though on both ends of the wye. My thought was to cut out a section of pipe, install the wye on the end of the pipe (upstream end), then install a piece of 4" pvc, then the adapter, and then the rubber coupling would attach the adapter and rest of existing pvc line. (Coupling and adapter would be on downstream end). Unless for this case, the rubber coupling needs to be attached to two adapters then the run would be wye, 4" pvc, adapter, rubber coupling, adapter, rest of existing 4" line.

Thanks,
Steve

In your first post you said, "The inspector was out here the other day looking at my underground plumbing, so I asked him about tying into the 4" main line."I just reviewed your other posts and it appears we already talked about this with you! Please review this

Thread:https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/plumbing/tie-into-existing-4-sewer-line-741353.html

It could have saved a lot of time if you had mentioned the fact the we previously talked about this!

Finally, this is a simple task for a plumber... may take him an hour total time.





Mark

I have had 2 plumbers come in and look at tying into the 4" main line to get a cost estimate, and how they would install it, and this was before the inspector came, and they have both given me different answers, and neither answer was what the inspector had told me, so I was trying to get the input of people on here. I have asked other questions on here, and you were pretty helpful in your answers.

When I started the thread, I was confused by what the inspector said, because it was different from what the plumbers had said.

That is my fault for the way I wrote that sentence and the way it was worded, and I am sorry for that and if I wasted your guys time. I did have the inspector out to look at the underground plumbing, which was the p-trap for my shower. He approved that, and once that was done, I was asking him about tying into the 4" main line, which is above ground, and is the main drain line for my house. I am sorry for the way that was described.

I am having a 3rd plumber out today, and by talking on the phone to this plumber just now, the way he described he would install it (which I believe it sounds like the same way I described in my last post) would be to cut a 3' section of pipe, install the wye on the end of the pipe (upstream end), then install a piece of 4" pvc, then the adapter, and then the rubber coupling (fernco no hub) which would attach the adapter and rest of existing pvc line. He had said that only one adapter would be required. The way he described it seems to match what the inspector said. Does that seem correct way to install it?

Thanks,
Steve

Using one adapter makes no sense, but if you have a licensed plumber saying he'll do it... Sounds good to me.