Does anybody else here share my concern about the 10,000,000 dogs slaughtered every year for lack of homes? Many of them live short, miserable lives before a less than humane death. This is graphic, Brightlion | In Hope (http://www.brightlion.com/InHope.aspx) The dog forums I have been a part of are uniformly anti breeding. I don't see how anybody that knows and loves dogs can help it. I am very disappointed with those gushing concern and caring on other issues here, not opposing breeding.

I pick up an occasional red square for my troubles, but nothing is going to stop me from speaking out on this issue. It is true much of the trouble comes from puppy mills and back yard breeders out for the money, but accidental breedings are a big problem too. I doubt many of the mixed breeds choking our shelters were bred by somebody looking to make a buck. Part of the problem is vets failing educate pet owners. So much for the idea they are a bunch of money grubbers pushing unneeded services.

Maybe I have had a bad week with question after question on another site from the totally clueless. Many of them don't give enough details to know why they are asking. But they are questions that if you don't know the answer, you should have had your dog fixed by 6 months.

It is sad. We have saved every pet we have ever owned, and our dog specifically is the best dog we could have ever received. He is a mutt, and much larger than we would have expected, but he is loyal, and friendly, and protects us with his life. He loves our son as if he were his own pup. When we rescued him as a puppy he was almost dead, and we spent our entire savings making him well again, and there is nothing I would have rather spent it on. :) Everyone should look into shelter dogs. They are just as good and sometimes even better than purebred dogs when it comes to inherited illnesses. They are more than eager to please you and will repay you for your kindness everyday. Get them spayed/neutered and microchipped, so they are never in such a scary siuation ever again.

labman, I deal with this every day. I just got off the phone with a good friend who does TNR with feral cats, on a regular basis. She was just telling me that at least 10 cats in a certain situation have to be euthanized.

You have hit a nerve with me. I could go on and on about it. Maybe I will later on today. But, I agree with you 100%. I think if there was a way to get everyone to volunteer, just one day in an animal shelter, and involved with just one euthanasia during that day, they would understand our perspectives on this situation. I get queasy every time I have to think of it. Outside of my childhood when I wasn't in control of the decision making process in my life, I have NEVER, EVER bought a dog. I will pay whatever it takes to adopt one, but I will not financially support ANY breeding operation, no matter how much the breeder loves the breed and is totally responsible in the process, (of which those operations are few and far between).

I'll be back later. You shouldn't have gotten me started. :(

The first thing we do when a new pet arrives is a visit to the vet for a check up and netutering. Our county dog pound will not release cats or dogs without the prospective owner agreeing to neutering. I don't know how they do a follow up on that requirement though. Iams dog food has recently taken a big hit for the way they run their test labs and they should have been an animals friend. I'll pass them by due to this.

We adopted our two cats from the feral cat program people. We saved our dog from going to the shelter -- she is a product of two "accidental" neighbor dogs. We then made ourselves unwelcomed by suggesting a low cost spay clinic to both of them-- offered to pay even since they looked strapped for it. We donate to the local Humane Society. All our pets have been fixed and I advocate shelter or rescue only adoptions. I am very vocal LOL. So far, several of my local friends have converted to this kind of thinking and adopted great pets too. But like so many social issues these days, its seems there are twice as many ignorant ones for every one who knows how to be smart about these things. Sadly the Animal Control Division of our local government is a joke and needs a total overhaul. I definitely feel the same angst as you in this.

I'll first state that I didn't look at the link because I can only imagine the horror.

Every dog that I own has been adopted from shelters and one dog was rescued by a terrible back yard breeder/puppy mill that spent time in jail for the conditions his animals were in.

My cats were all strays that adopted me;)

Every pet has been spayed and neutered so that I don't contribute to all the unwanted animals.

Since we have an animal population problem, for the animals sake, you would think that there would be a law stating that if your not a licensed breeder, your pets have to be spayed or neutered.

The city that I live in, you have to register your pets and pay your dues on them each year... They inforce this law full force.

I wonder why some kind of system like this doesn't exist for spaying and neutering??

It's a shame really...

Just ONE shelter in my area puts down 4000 animals a MONTH... And there are a lot of shelters... It's a shame...

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/dogs/yorkshire-terriers-75176.html Well?

Yes. I saw that too. I chose not to answer. If you noticed, most of the breeding questions or angry postings, I don't touch.

In KY you have to pay a higher cost license if your animal isn't spayed or neutered. I think it is 30 bucks compared to 7. That helps out a little. My personal favorite shelter (well not really a shelter) is a group called Alley Cats. They capture stray cats, spay or neuter them and then release them. That at least helps with the population problem. I am a huge advocate of our humane society and really try to convince friends to adopt. I just recently convinced a friend at work to adopt a supposedly purebred 12 month old german shepherd (if he wasn't purebred, he sure looked it) rather than buy one from a breeder. He wasn't planning on breeding the dog, so I said why do you need papers? He thanks me everyday, because his new baby is a wonderful dog.

Ty alka. Every little bit helps. I am familiar with Alley Cats. The friend I was speaking about above, is an active member. I help her with the TNR program that she has set up in our area when she asks for help.

I know how you feel. It's a constant battle where I live and I am all the time speaking against the irresponsible. I have even had friends whom I have bantered over and over about not breed their mutts. Many get mad at me for it, but in the end I seem to prevail.

I live in a place very out of the times. It's so horrible around here especially on the reserves. Three times a year the shelters here hire groups of people to do to the dozen different reserves and euthinize all the stray dogs. One every reserve they put down at least 200 dogs, and when they go back 4 months later it's just as bad. People even ask them to take their chained up dogs and put them down because they want to take one of the puppies that are running around. They pull dogs and puppies out from the woods, and underhouses and people even surrender them to be put down, only for them to go back and have those same people handing them another dog again. Many of the people who volunteer for this job only go back about 2 times before they just can't do it anymore. It's a slaughter house. The dogs are not respected and just thought of as disposable.

You would think that eventually seeing all these dogs needlessly dying all the time they would try spaying or neutering them, but it never seems to happen. Some people just don't care.

It's a constant battle and I don't know if we will see the end any time soon. I currently own 4 dogs of my own. One is a product of bad breeding, his legs where badly screwed up at the age of 4 months(rescue), one was rescued from an abusive/neglectful home, the other is a product of an irresponsible owner and was going to go to the reserve until I offered some money for him (amazing what $30 can do to change someone's mind) and the third is from a BYB ( I got him when I was 15 and was not aware what I was supporting).

I am also an activist for the DogsDeserveBetter Organization, which works to free dogs chained 24/7. A lot of these dogs are not spayed or neutered and many of the females end up getting pregnant and having many litters while tied.

I understand your frustration labman. It's people like us who need to work and raise awareness of these situation, and the more awareness we raise the more dogs are hopefully saved.

Unfortunately we don't get to see many happy endings as we dog disastrious ones, which seems to really wear on your after awhile, but keep working away because eventually it will make a difference.

I think I'm going to be sick
howrse

Back when I was working with a cat adoption group, there was one woman who had quite a reputation among the locals. She'd go and adopt kittens, about 8 weeks old. Then, when they got to about 6 months and lost that "kitten cuteness", she'd turn them back in and try and adopt another kitten. It didn't take long for her to get black listed.

I too am completely against unlicensed careless breeding, random or otherwise. I have people that come into my store almost on a daily basis asking me or my cashiers (and none of us are vets, in case you didn't know) for advice on breeding their dogs or getting word out that they're selling dogs. Unfortunately I cannot be blunt with them and tell them that it's wholly irresponsible to do what they are doing. I actually advocate kitty and doggy abortions.

I also get in a lot of people who don't do their homework and buy puppies for inflated prices out of the newspaper. My favorite question? "Does this look like a purebred ________?" I want to answer with: "Well, you were a freaking idiot for paying $1400 for a 'Yorkie' with no papers and without being able to see the parents first." It's these sorts of things that make me very angry when I know that every day, every minute, some animal is being put down because of this carelessness.

The company I work with does a lot in the way of animal adoptions and has a large charity subsidiary that donates food, beds, and money to adoption groups. Unfortunately, the remedy is not enough, and we all need to be doing preventative work rather than fix-its. I'm all for spay and neuter laws (and not just for selective breeds), and I urge everyone I know to get involved with local humane organizations and shelters. Even if you don't have time, a $20 donation, a gift card to a pet store, or even old pet beds and bowls and such are greatly appreciated and will be put to good use.

I agree with Ruby, if everyone had to spend at least one day in a shelter, and witness one pet loss, then I'm sure the tune would change. I've spent years doing volunteer work for local city shelters and private organizations, and it breaks my heart every time.

Kudos for bringing this up, hopefully the message can get out to at least a few more people.

I have to say that one thing that boggles me about Texas is that people sell dogs _on the side of the road_! You go driving along any major road on the weekend and there are cars parked there with signs saying "puppies for sale", generally listing the breed. (I'm pretty sure that this illegal, by the way. I'm also pretty sure it's low on the list of things that the cops get involved in.) But I'm just stunned that people apparently will stop at some random stranger's car to buy a "purebred" puppy!

Does anybody else here share my concern about the 10,000,000 dogs slaughtered every year for lack of homes? Many of them live short, miserable lives before a less than humane death. This is graphic, Brightlion | In Hope (http://www.brightlion.com/InHope.aspx) The dog forums I have been a part of are uniformly anti breeding. I don't see how anybody that knows and loves dogs can help it. I am very disappointed with those gushing concern and caring on other issues here, not opposing breeding.

I pick up an occasional red square for my troubles, but nothing is going to stop me from speaking out on this issue. It is true much of the trouble comes from puppy mills and back yard breeders out for the money, but accidental breedings are a big problem too. I doubt many of the mixed breeds choking our shelters were bred by somebody looking to make a buck. Part of the problem is vets failing educate pet owners. So much for the idea they are a bunch of money grubbers pushing unneeded services.

Maybe I have had a bad week with question after question on another site from the totally clueless. Many of them don't give enough details to know why they are asking. But they are questions that if you don't know the answer, you should have had your dog fixed by 6 months.
People do share your concern, however it's your poor attitude that's the problem. You get more bee's with honey. You are not nice in your responses. You treat people like they are stupid, and like they are TRYING to over-populate the world with animals. Maybe if you tried being nice, you'd get through to more people. I agree with your stance, I do not like the way you display it. I'm sure I'll get a rude reply though.

I do care about the animals put to death every year for lack of homes. Honestly. Every dog my ex and I owned was spayed or neutered at six months old. If we had a dog that did not work out, we found a home that did not require what we required of a hunting dog. There was only one dog that we did end up putting down. It was either us or the game warden who was going to do it, she kept running after deer and would not learn otherwise.

I do have a question though, just how long is long enough to keep an animal in a shelter? What are the chances of an animal being adopted who has been in a shelter for a year, or two years?

Shy, each shelter sets their rules as most businesses do, but many follow the general guidelines set by the Humane Society and/or the ASPCS. I can tell you that if it is a kill shelter, the likelihood of an animal lasting six months, let alone one year, is slim. They are usually euthanized if not adopted within a reasonable period. There just isn't enough room to house all these animals.

Years ago, on the original AskMe, the one member was in shambles one Monday. Her shelter had to euthanize 300 dogs over the weekend. We all struggled to put her back together.

I would hope if I went to the dating forum and asked how to pick up teeny boppers, I would get beaten up.

We have so many brainless people here in the greater cincinnati area that are just sometimes to lazy to get their cats spayed/neutered. Very little to do with money. We have program after program that offers voucher's to help with a spay/neuter. I personally am taking a bunch of cats for someone to get spayed. This lady has allowed stray cats to take over her porch and keep having babies. I drive past her house everyday taking my kids to school. I saw her out last week taking pic's of about 6 kittens, I asked her if those were her's she. Said why do you want to know? I told her that I help people get their cats spayed would she like some help. She said yes, as long as you are not the lady that has been stealing my cats and are not the one leaving brochures on my doors. Hehe it wasn't me but I know who it was, sometimes we resort to going when people are not home and taking as many as we can, grabbing up as quicklyas we can, this is extreme case where there are 10, and 20 or more kittens. We have been reported to the police but they turn their heads on this one. This lady was well dressed, nice house , nice car and was going to school studying something in the medical field (had lab coat on with name of school). People on my street know that I will steal their unspayed/neutered cat and get it fixed and release it back on the street, if I get the chance. That is how strongly that I feel about it,maybe I'll change my mind if anyone ever prosecute's me. I understand that the older members that have been here for years and have answered thousands of questions are tired of people and their ignorance on breeding animals. But as SNB said you can get somewhere more quick with people if you are nicer and don't be so quick to jump , even if they are breeders I say try a nicer approach to begin with, offer up, websites as labman did (above) ask what state they live in, give them info on how to find out how many dogs or cats that are humanely killed each year, lead them to a resuce site for that particular breed, maybe this will help change their views about breeding. I know I am probably going to get blasted for this but, that's my solution rather than a quick hateful retort about irresponisble breeding.:)peace

Bush, where I live, you just can't get through to people. You can talk and talk and be as nice as pie, but they don't get it. And, that is face to face. It sure as heck is a lot more difficult to reason with someone on a website and get them to see the light. You get tired of repeating yourself after a while, and it gets very frustrating. Yes, maybe labman is terse at times. But, he strongly believes in spay/neuter and when someone posts about a pregnant pet and it is obvious that they haven't done their homework, or hasn't immediately gone to their vet, he gets annoyed. As I do. Most vets will talk with their customers about spaying and neutering at some point. You have to ask yourself why the person posting didn't have it done. Yes, some people have money issues. But you know what? I am a widow on a fixed income and I will go without something so that my dog can have the proper medical care and training. I don't need a fancy surround sound system, an Xbox, a fancy car, or any of the other toys people buy for themselves. Most of the people I see where I live, feel they need to have these things and will spend whatever money they have on stuff that just isn't a necessity. Then they cry poverty when you speak to them about their pets health and welfare. It disgusts me. People have a choice as to whether to stay ignorant over a situation. Yes, they may be very nice people and not intentionally breed their pets. So what? They are guilty of not listening to their vets and/or not educating themselves, and now they are asking for someone to offer them a bandaid, some magical piece of advice, or stroke them a bit because they are upset. If they don't like the attitude, they have an option to turn off their computers and call their vets. They don't. Why?

When I adopted my dog, she was 5-6 months old and was incredibly ill. She was slated to be euthanized within 3 days. I spent a ton of money on her to get her back to the best state of health that I could. As she grew and filled out, I realized she was not a mix as thought. She was a full pitbull. So, I read everything I could get my hands on about the breed and spent another ton of money putting her through rigorous training to ensure that she was given the best chance in life as a happy and well balanced dog. I didn't rely on websites. I relied on vets, behaviorists, trainers and books. When I was faced with a problem, I did some more digging and found my answers. She is a house dog. Never allowed off leash. But, the first thing I did was have her spayed because even though I knew that I wasn't going to contribute to the overpopulation, I didn't want to leave anything open to chance that an "accidental breeding" might occur.


By the way, I have a friend who does what you do. She will take someone's cat that is out roaming, get it fixed, and put it back. Most people don't even realize it. How sad is that?

Ruby it' s just not labman that get terse. I have seen a lot of others do it. I can say that I am the type of person that get's easily offended. I am just looking at it from their perspective most people just flick off at the computer screen and not get in a debate or respond. Go to another site and find out what they need to know, and we have missed the opportunity to store a little information in their brain regarding why they should not breed their pets. It's sad but some people never take their pets to the vet for them to tell them anything. They buy them or get them for free and that's it . Sad but true esp. in the country, they can even buy rabies shots and such from the local drugstore.

I understand what you are saying. Maybe the problem is being too sensitive. I don't take offense easily. I couldn't give a rat's behind if someone here says something nasty to me. It isn't as if anyone here has an effect on my "real" life. The fact is, if you go to other help websites, you will always get slammed by someone. And, I have seen on other sites some really incredibly nasty stuff. I find this help site has a larger base of intelligent responses than any other. I don't like seeing breeding questions. My preference is to not respond because I don't believe anything I say will ever get through. But, in deference to labman, and the fact that he believes as I do about breeding, I have spoken up about it. It really depends on what kind of mood I am in. I have my good days and bad. Sometimes I can be a real arse. Thankfully, admin forgives it because for the most part, I am helpful. I don't use abusive names. But, I can point out that someone is not using their common sense, and calling their vet when there is a crisis. Okay, the poster may not view it as helpful and may be offended by my words, but I haven't said anything that isn't true and I am answering the question, or at least attempting to, the best way I know how, which is the main purpose of this site. I think it is all in how one interprets the response. Has someone offended me here? Many times. Labman among them. So what? I either ignore it completely, find a way to come to a truce, or I stand my ground if the other person has an iota of intelligent posts and isn't slamming me in an irrational manner. If it goes off topic, I am obligated to point that out. I don't need to get the last word in or point out to them that they are being rude. If it is a rude post, I click on "inappropropiate post" and let the administrators and moderators deal with it. If I am truly upset, I PM one of the administrators. But, for me that is rare. In the end, I am still here because I like the sense of community, I like most of the people, and the rules are quite logical to me. Why let one person's response intimidate me or turn me off to coming back. In the scheme of my "real" life, no one here has any bearing or influence on it.

P.S. Bushg, you wrote:
It's sad but some people never take their pets to the vet for them to tell them anything. they buy them or get them for free and that's it . Sad but true esp. in the country,
Yes, it is true. And, it pisses me off. It is illegal not to seek proper medical care and to immunize your child. Why should another living creature under your care not be given the same consideration? In the end, we, as adults are responsible for everyone living in our household and under our care.

The few people who choose to be intimidated or leave this site due to what they view as "abuse", are free to do so. There will always be something that someone doesn't like on any web site you visit. You can't please all of the people, all of the time.

WOW this question got some fast response. I am very concerned with the problem. Thankfully we have two shelters in my area that do not euthanize dogs. I used to have AKC registered dogs but don't have any now. Now I have a German Shepard found abandoned, a Husky-Lab Mix (Huskador) rescued following Hurricane Wilma. A Roti rescued from La following Hurricane Katrina. I also foster one dog for one of the animal rescue organizations in my area, a Australian Shepard Bassett Hound mix (yes it is as bad as it sounds), basically he is a Australian Shepard with really short legs and a long body.

We hold a adopt-a-thon at my place of business about once every 3 months with one of the shelters in the area. But we all have to be little Bob Barkers and preach spaying and neutering. My Roti looks like she was used in some backyard breeding mill as you could tell she had been a mother before. I have no idea why someone would have bred her because she is not even close to being a breeding quality dog. I had to spend $700 on her to get her eyes fixed because every time she closed them her eyebrows went into her eyes and irritated them. Then I had the joy of her 6 month checkup where she tested positive for Heartworms. So another $800. I have as much in her as a papered Roti, but she is my big sweetie and I wouldn't take anything for her. And yes I had them all fixed.

Rotties are great. I do fostering with a couple of rescues in my area. By the way, Mr P, this is actually an old post that labman began in March. It has gotten picked up and responded to at different intervals. That is why there are so many answers. Wait until you see the ones that are 4 years old suddenly getting new life breathed into them.

I think bushg has a point on people not getting vet care at all. I wonder what planet some people are living on, actual question, ''My 7 month old dog has been bleeding out the vagina for a week. What should I do?'' I was more gentle than you might expect, counseling carefully confining her for a couple of weeks and then having her spayed when the vet was willing.

''How long does my female Labrador have to be with the male to get pregnant?'' ''How many puppies will a Poodle have?'' What is the justestion period for a dog?'' I have been seeing a couple of those a day since early this year. This is on a site where questions are directed to a specific ''expert''.

...I am just looking at it from their perspective most people just flick off at the computer screen and not get in a debate or respond. go to another site and find out what they need to know, and we have missed the opportunity to store a little information in their brain regarding why they should not breed their pets.

With regards to this user, please note her words.
...You know, I looked on this site for advice about my baby, a mini dachshund. Then I realized that this site is just like many others I have seen.

When she goes to these other sites she gets the same answer. Somewhere along the way you would think it would start to sink in to her head that she has a problem and should address it.

People do share your concern, however it's your poor attitude that's the problem. You get more bee's with honey. You are not nice in your responses. You treat people like they are stupid, and like they are TRYING to over-populate the world with animals. Maybe if you tried being nice, you'd get through to more people. I agree with your stance, I do not like the way you display it. I'm sure I'll get a rude reply though.

Mr Pippin, she posted that one that you quoted, and the above, here on this thread, prior to actually posting her question. So, I was trying to figure out how she expected a kind and considerate response by starting this way on this web site. Hmmm. *scratches head* "You get more bees with honey." Yes indeedy. You do.

Hmmm. *scratches head* "You get more bees with honey." Yes indeedy. You do.

Yes you do, but also expect to attract some bears along the way... :)

Bear with me. SnB perhaps deserves a little slack with it being a 4 month old. Better yet we can hope it didn't take because he was too young. Many questions are too brief to really know what is happening. In many cases, even with good intentions, coming into season may come too soon after 6 months and before getting around to it. Still, many of them can hardly be anything but a backyard breeder trying to avoid a vet bill.

Of course labman, she deserves some slack. She said the male was 3 months old. But, I am not inclined to cut someone slack when they find it necessary to create 2 rude posts prior to posting her actual question. She could have explained the entire situation on one post. But, I still am confused as to why she just didn't spay the female at an earlier time. Then she wouldn't be making herself sick with worry over this. Or just bring the female in to the vet to find out if she is pregnant or not.

Ruby 2 I agree I went back and looked at her post she was defensive from the start. Also she said she was a professional.. I wonder if she meant breeder? Goes to say... maybe labman can read between the lines. Slap my hand. I'm wondering about her female dog as well, maybe she has not heard of uterine cancer.

Exactly bushg. You know, when I was growing up, it wasn't standard practice to spay/neuter. Those were the times when training meant a newspaper and rubbing their noses in their urine to teach housebreaking. Thankfully, we have learned a lot over the years. Anyway, as a result of not spaying our Westie, we lost our sweet, silly little girl to uterine cancer way too soon.

Well, bushg, when you are ready, do a search on West Highland White Terrier Rescue. You will get a number of different hits on that.

Sorry labman, we are getting a bit off topic lately, aren't we?

Another example of why people should have their dogs spayed and neutered.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/dogs/3-week-old-lab-not-eating-98482.html#post444569

They couldn't keep the puppies past 3 to 4 weeks. What a shame.

Agree it's a crying shame, and the truly sad part is that people continue to go to pet stores, and every where else to buy dogs when there are so many free dogs looking for a home in shelters all over the nation

I apologize for the defensivness. Some of these posts are just, not nice. Okay? Having said that. I entered a post giving the situation. My vet did not tell me my female could develop cancer, I've never heard of that.

I'm hoping it didn't take.. I really am. If it does, a pup will not leave my home before it is ready. I'm trying to prevent a future problem here if I have one..

I read on the internet that a vet cannot tell until 40-45 days. I can take her to have her checked. I bought 2 books on dachshunds when I bought her.. Most of the verbiage was on how to take care of them. They don't discuss breeding.

Also to explain - NO I am in no way shape or form a breeder of any kind. I meant that I work in a Professional environment. Looking back at my email, your right. It was extremely rude. Bad day, frustration = no excuse. I'm just looking for advice. I apologize.

The difference between a good and bad person is how many bad days we have. You came on defensive and I overlooked the age of the male and over reacted. Again, I am sorry.

I have an ultrasound of my Zeke's mother's at 30 days. So much for reliability of what you find on the net.

labman, sorry but I have been away for the past day. You were not abusive to SNB at all. So, I don't understand what you are apologizing for on this one. She was stating what she stated PRIOR to posting anything.

SNB, thank you for apologizing. I think you need to have a discussion with your vet when you bring in your female to be examined. Depending on the vet (just like people docs), unless we ask the questions, they don't think about filling us in on everything. Uterine cancer can be a very real concern and happens all too frequently to unspayed females. If you are at all in doubt as to what has been stated here, ask your vet. I would be interested in hearing his/her response to that.

True ruby she needs to make out a list beforehand. It not easy to remember everything.