I am in an abusive marriage, I want to move out of state with our minor children. There is no divorce or separation filed. Can I legally move without telling my husband?

Yes, but he also can contact the Court and attempt to bring them back. He would probably claim - and I have seen this, I work in the legal system - that you are an unstable mother, because a stable person wouldn't uproot the children and leave the area.

Why don't you prove the abuse, file for a restraining order, get a divorce - and then make sound, legal plans?

If you leave and he finds you (and he probably will) then what will you do? You have equal rights to the children. You can take them, and he can find them and take them back at this point.

Abuse has been proven to an extent, he was arrested (a few years ago) for threatening to kill all of us. And I have been keeping a journal. I am a stay at home mom with 00 income of my own, so I don't have the $$ to hire an attorney, I've called several. My husband has also told me if I were to ever leave I would be on my own and he would never pay support.

He can say whatever he wants to say. The question is what the Court will say.

Aside from the one Police Report some years ago, what else do you have by means of witnesses and Police Reports, complaints? You do not need an Attorney to get a protective order. I am surprised that Legal Aid won't help you with legal representation. An Attorney can also represent you, and your husband can be Court-ordered to pay those legal fees.

If you have no money how are you going to leave town and disappear?

Abuse has been proven to an extent, he was arrested (a few years ago) for threatening to kill all of us. and I have been keeping a journal. I am a stay at home mom with 00 income of my own, so I dont have the $$ to hire an attorney, I've called several. My husband has also told me if I were to ever leave I would be on my own and he would never pay support.

At this point it doesn't matter what he says. Its not about him its about you. What Judy is telling you is that you stand to loose the children if you don't do this right. They have a definition for parents that take their children and hide them from the other parent. Its called Kidnapping. It is serious. By having a restraining order then you can establish a third party and may be able to hide your residence from him legally. Another thing is that if you returned to the relationship and have gone on for several years without the police being involved then you may not have "proof" of any kind as you have allowed the situation to continue. Seek help from a shelter if you have to. He can be made responsible for legal fees (hiring your lawyer) to get the divorce through.

I also agree with the advice Judy has given you. Also, a good lawyer will get his fees paid by your husband, not you.

What I would suggest is that you look for abused women support groups in your area. Many will provide free or low cost legal help.

But you have to do this right or you will be the loser.

I never said I was going to hide, first of all. And if there is no legal custody it isn't kidnapping, that I was told by a Police Officer that I know. I can also save enough $ to move and have a friend to stay with. I cannot come up with $3k which is what 2 lawyers quoted me to take my case. I do have proof pics of marks bruises on myself and my boys... I asked for advice not to be judged, It's easy to say well just do this or do that until you are in my shoes. I used to be the 1st one to say "just leave" but its really not that easy when there are kids involved.

I never said I was going to hide, first of all. and if there is no legal custody it isn't kidnapping, that I was told by a Police Officer that I know. I can also save enough $ to move and have a friend to stay with. I cannot come up with $3k which is what 2 lawyers quoted me to take my case. I do have proof pics of marks bruises on myself and my boys... i asked for advice not to be judged, It's easy to say well just do this or do that until you are in my shoes. I used to be the 1st one to say "just leave" but its really not that easy when there are kids involved.

Im not judging either. Im showing you what you have stated and how it may appear. As far as your friend the cop. He doesn't know the law as well as you think. Married or not if you conceal the children (move out without telling my husband) then you run a risk of parental kidnapping. But if your in an abusive environment then you really do need to hide out. So that is why it is suggested to go through the courts and do it legally so you and the children can remain safe and he be kept at arms length.

This is the time to make the smart decisions before you go in to deep.

Whoa, no one is judging you. We have all tried to help you.

You said; "Can I legally move without telling my husband? " This implies that you may not tell your husband where you or his children are. So we didn't want you to make a mistake, because that IS Parental kidnapping. No its not kidnapping if you just leave with the children and make sure your husband knows your whereabouts. But that gives him time to file for divorce and force you to return the children. We don't want that top happen hence our advice.

So you need to shop around more for an attorney. Try support groups like I suggested. You spoke to 2 attorneys, keep searching. Find one who will try to get your husband to pay his bill or one who will work with you on payment plans.

Again, no one has judged you. Not even sure where you got that from. But we know what's involved and we know how to do it right so you and your children are protected. That's what we are advising.

I cannot see that OP said where she is. "Parental kidnapping" is a matter of state law and varies from state to state. We cannot say that removing the children from the state without informing their father of their whereabouts is illegal, unless we know which state she is in.

I cannot see that OP said where she is. "Parental kidnapping" is a matter of state law and varies from state to state. We cannot say that removing the children from the state without informing their father of their whereabouts is illegal, unless we know which state she is in.

There are many laws in the U.S. that are geared toward parental kidnapping and its prevention. In crossing a state line it can make it a federal crime. There is much that has been put on the books to protect both children and their parents.

Federal Statutes on Kidnapping - Abduction and Kidnapping (http://kidnapping.uslegal.com/federal-statutes-on-kidnapping/)

One of the more well known being the AMBER alert system.

There are many laws in the U.S. that are geared toward parental kidnapping and its prevention. In crossing a state line it can make it a federal crime. There is much that has been put on the books to protect both children and their parents.

Federal Statutes on Kidnapping - Abduction and Kidnapping (http://kidnapping.uslegal.com/federal-statutes-on-kidnapping/)

One of the more well known being the AMBER alert system.

None of the federal statutes mentioned at the site to which you linked make it a federal crime to remove one's child from one state to another.

No one judged you - judging you would be asking why you stay in the abusive marriage, exposing your children to your violent husband on a daily basis.

I didn't realize you intend to move and tell him when you get to the new address.

What is the point of that?

No one judged you - judging you would be asking why you stay in the abusive marriage, exposing your children to your violent husband on a daily basis.

I didn't realize you intend to move and tell him when you get to the new address.

What is the point of that?

The point would be not to be living with him any longer...

None of the federal statutes mentioned at the site to which you linked make it a federal crime to remove one's child from one state to another.

I am in Wisconsin, and I do plan on getting an order of protection before I leave. I need to do this at the right time.. ie after school is over and when things are put into place. I did speak to a local attorney last night, he suggested I just pack up and leave but if my husband decided to file for divorce the courts could order me to move back. Im not sure what my husband would do, I know he love the kids but loving them isn't enough at this point, when we are treated badly on a daily basis. I just don't want to leave then have to move them back only causing more emotional damage to them. I cannot afford an attorney or even the downpaymnt to get started. I feel stuck and don't want my boys to grow up treating women the way their dad does. This isn't an easy decision...

So the Attorney basically said what "we" said. And I will repeat my earlier comments.

I work in the legal system. I was in an abusive relationship at one point in my life - several of the "regulars" here were/are/have been.

Being mistreated and allowing it to happen is one thing BUT allowing your children to be mistreated on a daily basis? That's inexcusable. Things are either not as bad as you say they are or you are totally uncaring. I don't think the latter is correct.

You have no money now, in mid-April, but you are going to have money when school is out? How is that going to happen?

What did the Attorney say about representing you and asking your husband to pay your legal fees?

One of our very knowledgeable ex-members lives in Wisconson. That is exactly what she did, her experience.

I am not understanding any of this, unfortunately, other than the difficult decision part. I do know that no one is going to abuse my children, no one.

So the Attorney basically said what "we" said. And I will repeat my earlier comments.

I work in the legal system. I was in an abusive relationship at one point in my life - several of the "regulars" here were/are/have been.

Being mistreated and allowing it to happen is one thing BUT allowing your children to be mistreated on a daily basis? That's inexcusable. Things are either not as bad as you say they are or you are totally uncaring. I don't think the latter is correct.

You have no money now, in mid-April, but you are going to have money when school is out? How is that going to happen?

What did the Attorney say about representing you and asking your husband to pay your legal fees?

One of our very knowledgeable ex-members lives in Wisconson. That is exactly what she did, her experience.

I am not understanding any of this, unfortunately, other than the difficult decision part. I do know that no one is going to abuse my children, no one.




Well Judy, yes I will have the $ to move and how is completely irrelevant.
I do not LET him abuse my childern, I have put myself in the line of fire several times, so suggesting that is just plain s*#tty. So far I have called 3 attorneys, all quoted $1200-3k just to retain them, not one said that my husband could be made to pay the fees. I don't have many options at this point, there isn't much out there for help shelters are full and funds are low, I have checked. These kids are the only family I have and Im doing my best to make sure they know right form wrong and treat people with respect. I am doing the best I can in this situation. I came to this site to get advice from someone who has gone through this personally or can lend some strong concrete legal advice not just guessing. I do appreciate those of you that have tried to help. I had a great childhood and that's all I want for my boys, not to be tied up in a legal battle because I don't have the cash to throw around.

You can be as angry (and x-rated) at me as you care to be. I answered what YOU posted: "loving them isnt enough at this point, when we are treated badly on a daily basis."

If you only want to post half of the story and not what you consider to be "irrelevant," I don't know why you asked the question.

I trust there is no other man involved in this. My spidey senses, and I'm investigator, say there might be.

As Judy pointed out, the attorney you consulted told you exactly what we told you.

Have you looked into support groups as I suggested?

.... So far I have called 3 attorneys, all quoted $1200-3k just to retain them, not one said that my husband could be made to pay the fees. ....

Bring this to their attention:


"767.225  Orders during pendency of action.

(1)  Temporary orders. Except as provided in ch. 822, in an action affecting the family the court may, during the pendency of the action, make just and reasonable temporary orders concerning the following matters:
...
b) Notwithstanding ss. 767.117 (1) (c) and 767.215 (2) (j), prohibiting the removal of minor children from the jurisdiction of the court.

(bm) Allowing a party to move with or remove a child after a notice of objection has been filed under s. 767.481 (2) (a).

...
(d) Requiring either party to pay for the maintenance of the other party. Maintenance under this paragraph may include the expenses and attorney fees incurred by the other party in bringing or responding to the action affecting the family. ..." Wisconsin Legislature: 767.225 (http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/767/III/225)

You can be as angry (and x-rated) at me as you care to be. I answered what YOU posted: "loving them isnt enough at this point, when we are treated badly on a daily basis."

If you only want to post half of the story and not what you consider to be "irrelevant," I don't know why you asked the question.

I trust there is no other man involved in this. My spidey senses, and I'm investigator, say there might be.

Your "spidey sense" is wrong... thank you, good day :)

Bring this to their attention:


"767.225  Orders during pendency of action.

(1)  Temporary orders. Except as provided in ch. 822, in an action affecting the family the court may, during the pendency of the action, make just and reasonable temporary orders concerning the following matters:
...
b) Notwithstanding ss. 767.117 (1) (c) and 767.215 (2) (j), prohibiting the removal of minor children from the jurisdiction of the court.

(bm) Allowing a party to move with or remove a child after a notice of objection has been filed under s. 767.481 (2) (a)
...
(d) Requiring either party to pay for the maintenance of the other party. Maintenance under this paragraph may include the expenses and attorney fees incurred by the other party in bringing or responding to the action affecting the family. ..." Wisconsin Legislature: 767.225 (http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/767/III/225)



Thank You!! I really do appreciate the time you took to help me. I'm going to try to find someone to take my case without $ down.

Thank You!!! I really do appreciate the time you took to help me. I'm going to try to find someone to take my case without $ down.

Good luck and keep us posted.

In my State, and I am in NY and appreciate OP is not, the Attorney needs some type of retainer - and I've seen it as low as $25 - before starting an action despite the ability to collect from the other spouse.

I don't know why.

In my State, and I am in NY and appreciate OP is not, the Attorney needs some type of retainer - and I've seen it as low as $25 - before starting an action despite the ability to collect from the other spouse.

I don't know why.

It is because you can not "hire" someone without an exchange of funds or goods/services. Also the attorney has to plead to the courts for payment so its not always a slam dunk.