Hey everyone!
So I've got this kind of weird issue affecting my family life (have been married for 7 years and have 3 awesome kids, 6, 4 & almost 2). I work full time (8.30-5.30) and my wife has been the stay at home Mum for the past 6 years.

For the past 6 years, my wife has had this group of friends online (Second Life, FB, Whatsapp, etc) and she's spending the majority of her time with them online and less and less with me and the kids.

It started shortly after we were married as a hobby and a way for her to socialize easily (we both decided to have kids quite young, so her friends don't have kids and she's shy around new people so not into coffee groups / kid's groups, etc). I was working long hours back then saving up for us to buy our first house, so I made myself accept it as something she needed in order to socialize in a way that was comfortable for her and her shy way of making friends.

Anyway, over the years, the amount of time she's spent on Second Life, etc, has increased and it's been at the point for the past 3-6 months that she's with her online friends most nights, for the whole night (and possibly during the day when the kids are home), So I've been trying to plan dates for us, or surprises at home, just generally fun stuff for us to spend time together and unwind from the pressures of 3 (pretty damn awesome) kids and let each other know that we love the other.

The problem is, at least it feels to me, that she now prefers her second life to her real life. Everything is easier online, every guy thinks she's the hottest thing ever [she kind of is! ;-) ] so she's got constant attention, lots of fun girl friends and guys swooning over her trying (and failing) to have "the sex", so it's like my love and affection for her has almost become noise in the background. It's feels a bit like we got married, made our vows to commit to each other and we created a family, but now she's just checking out and doing her own thing online all the time. (well OK, not all the time, but definitely a lot). =)

I went through a period of asking to spend more time with her, though I got resentful that she would treat me as though I was a chore and that she'd rather be online. Eventually, she said (honestly) that she just didn't want to spend time with me. At first I got upset at this, it felt like rejection and I started asking why I was suddenly up against all this competition, and how would she feel if I were to take similar actions and make her feel in the position that she was competing for my attention against other women? At that point, she got so angry that she threw something at me (I laugh about it now, because she admitted that her acting as though me taking the same actions as her were totally unacceptable to her standards, but that she expected that I would just put up with it. It's good that she was honest about that, though it's still pretty unfair).

But I realized that I was turning into an insecure husband, and the more I'd ask for her, the less she'd want to be with me. So I've backed off with the "nagging" for her time and attention and have started doing my own thing (recording music, hiking, gym during the evening). I'd hoped she'd perhaps start to miss me a little and want to get a bit of our intimacy back, but so far it's not happening. I know she's got romantic-esque relationships on Second Life that are giving her similar emotional satisfaction to a real life relationship. I also know she's not cheating on me per se (online relationships aren't really the same), but it's a bit like I've been replaced in her mind, like, her online relationships are just easier, and the guys online are always pretty chill and lazy because they don't have to deal with the issues that come up in everyday family life (even with a generally supportive husband, who works hard at a good job to look after this family and who really does love her) =)

I'm concerned about where our relationship / marriage is going, because the approaches I've tried haven't worked and have sometimes been twisted on me, being made out to be my fault. (e.g. a few times I tried being angry (pretend), to see if she'd care / change because she'd see I was upset, but in her book that made me the "grumpy abusive a**hole" and why would she want to spend time with someone when they acted like that... fair enough... so I tried discussing calmly with her that I was upset at her recurrent choices to spend time with her online friends instead of with me and the kids and was getting a bit lonely, same result, told it was my problem, and perhaps it was, but anyway, the pattern is that every time I try to work on it and discuss how her habits are affecting me, I'm told that she doesn't believe there's a problem and why should anything change? My choice of approach doesn't seem to make a difference to the outcome).

Now I might be making an issue where there isn't one, but even if I am, she's not really allowing me to express my (genuine) feelings and doesn't seem to care if I'm unhappy with the direction our relationship is going. I suspect she's falling/fallen out of love with me, because she doesn't seem to care about me that much any more (except when she thinks I'm talking to any women apart from her, then it's panic stations! So perhaps she does care... ).

I really love her and do care about our relationship and my family. I worry a bit about the message she's teaching our children as a result of her consistent actions of ignoring the family so that she can pursue her own (selfish) interests to an extent which I've told her is what I'd say is unacceptable. By doing nothing, I think I'm teaching my kids to just accept a bad situation and give up trying to work on it. And her actions are teaching them a bad example of what a good husband / wife team looks like.

Sometimes her gaming obsession (of sorts) affects our children directly, such as her staying up till 2am or 3am and waking up late the next morning when the children need to go to school, or I suspect that she's on Second Life, or Facebook, or texting her friends using Whatsapp during the day instead of focusing her attention on our younger children who are at home with her (I don't know this, as I'm not there, but often when I get home, the house is a wreck when it had been clean that morning when I left for work, and she often won't have made any dinner for the family on her cooking nights). Often she disappears for periods on the weekend to hide in a room and text her online friends or check what's happening on Facebook, and if I ask her if she could perhaps do that later or maybe wait till the evening when we're not having family time, I get told that I'm being controlling (perhaps I am, help me out here).


What I'm trying to do is
1, accept the situation as it is and not get angry about it
2, not come across as needy with her and thereby push her further away
3, manage my own increased stress levels by taking time out for myself to exercise and pursue my own interests (when I know that she'll be too busy with her friends to talk to me anyway)
4, figure out what I can do to help her WANT to change HER behavior as we go into the future.

This last point is where I need the most help. I know that I won't win any battles by trying to control her, or by making her life difficult if she doesn't act in the way that makes me happy (she doesn't really care about that any more). What I CAN do is influence the world of her real life around her and try to make that more appealing so that perhaps she'll WANT to lay off a little on the online world and be with her family some more.

I'm feeling pretty rejected otherwise, and the kids are now commenting quite regularly that "Mummy is always busy playing her silly lady games".


Any ideas people?
Am I making this a bigger issue than it is? What can I do differently?
Thanks!!

It seems to me like she's pretty much checked out, a lazy unattending, selfish so called housewife, dude id totally give her the ultimatum... and if she says "that's not fair" or something along those lines... theres your answer that she wants her cake and eat it too, online things CAN be considered cheating these days... on the emotional side... samething if not worse... if your afraid that she might pick her online life over a 6 or 7 yr marriage... then that really don't say anything but negative about her... sorry... she's done.. and when she starts trippin on females talking to u, that's just how women act... like a child when someone else picks up their old toy.. they get mad... hope this helps.

And just to add on, exwife started her infidelity online which led to our marriage ending... she turned online encounters real life..

Been married for 37 years and have gone through this many times when we have both had to make do with less of each other for extended periods and even now are apart except for Skype for weeks at a time. When the kids were younger, then it was a pleasure to have the opportunity to be close with them, it has paid great dividends now that they are adults in their 30's. I think it will be the same for you if you are patient, and fully supportive now and see this as an opportunity instead of feeling rejected.

So what if the house isn't cleaned the way you want it to be when you get home. So what if dinner isn't quite ready yet. So what if that family time includes more you and the kids and not her. Its those times that get us out of self and do what has to be done, and we lead by example and attitude no matter what's going on through all situations, the best we can.

She may indeed be lost in her on line fantasy, and of course you want her to change. I submit to you respectfully, change yourself, and let her change herself, as just as you realize that your tactics so far have failed to get the results you want, so will hers in their own time.

I chose to make more time with my kids, and we had a great time together, and when they say why isn't mommy with us, it was always she is busy just like daddy gets busy at work sometimes but lets have some fun. I suspect she needs that outside connection and as time goes on she will appreciate it and make adjustments on her own. Especially when the kids get older, and more independent, and expressive.

For now though, you better enjoy your kids and your independence, and take the opportunity to enjoy what you have, and set the example that eventually she will see, and follow. Trust me guy, your credibility is enhanced greatly when you have a b1tch, when you have always put your best foot forward, and do the right thing despite difficult circumstances. If you are always complaining of not enough family time or attention, then it falls on deaf ears as something heard before.

She wants on line time, give her all she can handle, and adjust your strategy and thinking to see the opportunity to influence your kids with nothing but positive from you. I am of the opinion that a man leads and the woman can choose to follow, or be left behind. I also believe a wife should be given a chance through understanding, love, and support and unconditional love to explore and experiment and find herself.

If you have to beat 'em, or tell them how YOU want things, you don't need 'em period. Now give her two weeks notice for family night, so she has time to rearrange her schedule for you. If she cannot, go without her, and enjoy it.

By making this about you, and what YOU want, you may be missing some important things about your wife you need to know. Most females with 3 kids in 6 years still have the cow feelings deep inside and it takes years for them overcome, and your patience is what gets them thru it. So long as the kids are safe secure and clean, don't worry about what she does when you aren't there. 3 young kids is a BIG job.

It gets better (and more challenging) when they are all in school. You are just getting started building a life together and the way you communicate is the key and I think Good Orderly Direction in your POSITIVE actions speaks louder than words.

Well... you should just take you and the kids away to live with someone.. your parents or something... make her realize what she's missing... if she seems happier w/o all of you.. then just let it be.. if it seems hopeless, id suggest just leave. Yes it's a hassle... but hey she ain't trying, neither should you.

What I'm trying to do is
1, accept the situation as it is and not get angry about it
2, not come across as needy with her and thereby push her further away
3, manage my own increased stress levels by taking time out for myself to exercise and pursue my own interests (when I know that she'll be too busy with her friends to talk to me anyway)
4, figure out what I can do to help her WANT to change HER behavior as we go into the future.

I hope I have addressed item #4 for you, the other 3 are a good plan.

Thanks for you input! Good on you for being here and wanting to help out others, that's really awesome of you.

You may be right, in that she's kind of "checked out" a lot of the time and puts more importance on her own thing than the wants / needs of her family most of the time, so she may indeed "be done".
If that's the case, it's down to me to decide what action I'm going to take. I can't change her, I can influence her to a very small extent (but I don't want to play games of manipulate, I want HER to come to her own decision), I can only change how I act moving forward.

While I do feel like it's a rough deal if I just stick around and put up with it (feelings of her just getting away with it, or worse, that horrible term "I'm enabling her") I have to seriously consider the ramifications if I decide to throw the towel in on our marriage. I mean, I know she's not trying, and doesn't appear to be willing to try anymore, but the status quo might still be the best for my children. Having both mummy and daddy is better that putting them through a separation of their parents due to my feelings about her choices. I know, I know, I could ride with "well it's her fault if she just decides to check out and doesn't love me anymore" and I know it takes 2 committed individuals to make a relationship flourish (right now, we only have one, myself, and I'm starting to wonder which side of the fence I'm on). But taking this attitude means that I'm making a choice based on her actions, and while it might turn out better for me, I don't think I could say the same for our children.

What she's doing is not technically "neglectful" enough for me to have a firm leg to stand on in order to get custody of our children, plus I'm not nasty enough to start an all out battle with her over this, as though they're little possessions.
I'm fairly confident that she'd end up getting custody of the children, which would mean I'd see them on weekends and get my "family time" then, without her, but then my choice to leave then affects our children for the rest of their lives. I'd be the one making them children of a broken home, instead of grinning and bearing it and putting up with some crap in order to do what's best for them.

It sucks, I know, but it's what I've got at the moment. I don't know what's changed and why she is so reliant on her online socialising, but I do have to ask, seriously, what might I have done to have brought this on, or perhaps, what have I not done? There's been no cheating in the relationship from either side, and we're both quite fiercely monogomous, I've had a well paying job with good prospects for the past 5 years and we've travelled the world a fair bit, some with and some without the kids, and I keep fit running 1 hour at least 3 nights a week, usually 4. But I've got to ask, what has brought her to this? What might I be lacking? (not in an emo "Wah, I'm not good enough" kind of way, but in a pragmatic, "Ok, can I do something with myself here to make things better? Because I can't change her, I've learned that the hard way).

You're right, she probably wants to have her cake and eat it too, and perhaps I've been "enabling" that over time by trying to be the best Dad I can be, as well as a husband, and looking after myself.
That's why I called this questions "the best of 2 crappy options".

And you might also be right about her behaviour being quite normal re: if I mention any other women, and her jumping down my throat. But perhaps it is also a sign that she cares, I mean, she could just be like "meh, do what and who you want". To me, that'd be less caring than jumping at me if she feels threatened. Still though, it seems insecure, a little immature, and not ideal.

Hahaha, none of it is ideal. That's why I'm here trying to work out what the right thing to do is, by me, by her, and probably most importantly, by our children.
We made the choice to be parents, we shouldn't screw that up for them because we can't get along.
It's a tricky balancing act huh?

Thanks heaps for your input man!

Thanks for you input!! Good on you for being here and wanting to help out others, that's really awesome of you.

You may be right, in that she's kind of "checked out" a lot of the time and puts more importance on her own thing than the wants / needs of her family most of the time, so she may indeed "be done".
If that's the case, it's down to me to decide what action I'm going to take. I can't change her, I can influence her to a very small extent (but I don't want to play games of manipulate, I want HER to come to her own decision), I can only change how I act moving forward.

While I do feel like its a rough deal if I just stick around and put up with it (feelings of her just getting away with it, or worse, that horrible term "I'm enabling her") I have to seriously consider the ramifications if I decide to throw the towel in on our marriage. I mean, I know she's not trying, and doesn't appear to be willing to try anymore, but the status quo might still be the best for my children. Having both mummy and daddy is better that putting them through a separation of their parents due to my feelings about her choices. I know, I know, I could ride with "well it's her fault if she just decides to check out and doesn't love me anymore" and I know it takes 2 committed individuals to make a relationship flourish (right now, we only have one, myself, and I'm starting to wonder which side of the fence I'm on). But taking this attitude means that I'm making a choice based on her actions, and while it might turn out better for me, I don't think I could say the same for our children.

What she's doing is not technically "neglectful" enough for me to have a firm leg to stand on in order to get custody of our children, plus I'm not nasty enough to start an all out battle with her over this, as though they're little possessions.
I'm fairly confident that she'd end up getting custody of the children, which would mean I'd see them on weekends and get my "family time" then, without her, but then my choice to leave then affects our children for the rest of their lives. I'd be the one making them children of a broken home, instead of grinning and bearing it and putting up with some crap in order to do what's best for them.

It sucks, I know, but it's what I've got at the moment. I don't know what's changed and why she is so reliant on her online socialising, but I do have to ask, seriously, what might I have done to have brought this on, or perhaps, what have I not done?? There's been no cheating in the relationship from either side, and we're both quite fiercely monogomous, I've had a well paying job with good prospects for the past 5 years and we've travelled the world a fair bit, some with and some without the kids, and I keep fit running 1 hour at least 3 nights a week, usually 4. But I've got to ask, what has brought her to this? What might I be lacking? (not in an emo "Wah, I'm not good enough" kind of way, but in a pragmatic, "Ok, can I do something with myself here to make things better? Because I can't change her, I've learned that the hard way).

You're right, she probably wants to have her cake and eat it too, and perhaps I've been "enabling" that over time by trying to be the best Dad I can be, as well as a husband, and looking after myself.
That's why I called this questions "the best of 2 crappy options".

And you might also be right about her behaviour being quite normal re: if I mention any other women, and her jumping down my throat. But perhaps it is also a sign that she cares, I mean, she could just be like "meh, do what and who you want". To me, that'd be less caring than jumping at me if she feels threatened. Still though, it seems insecure, a little immature, and not ideal.

Hahaha, none of it is ideal. That's why I'm here trying to work out what the right thing to do is, by me, by her, and probably most importantly, by our children.
We made the choice to be parents, we shouldn't screw that up for them because we can't get along.
It's a tricky balancing act huh??

Thanks heaps for your input man!I don't know man, you seem to be doing everything a husband SHOULD be doing.. its this day in age with peoples fascination with technology and cyberspace... not having to deal with real life.. some prefer it that way, your actually being alil too soft towards her... probably the only thing wrong that your doing, I know if it was me I'd put up with maybe HALF of that before I jumped her and tell her to getoff the computer to live real life, I take it YOUR paying for everything right? I suggest to shutoff your internet so she could see what she has. F' THAT! Haha... yea I'm alil harsh, but that's how it needsa be nowadays.

@talaniman
Thanks Talaniman. Your response is really insightful, obviously from hard learned experienced, and from how much you've written on this, I know you really want to help. Thanks so much!

Can I ask, and feel free not to answer... I'm just curious, you said you and your wife of 37 years have had to make do with less of each other over the years. Is this because of work commitments, one or both of you wanting the freedom to follow your dreams/passions, general wear on the relationship due to the stresses of everyday life with kids, or because your wife has made choices which have put you second which you may not agree with?
Seriously, I'm just curious, because in my case, the only reason I get upset or angry is because I don't see why she's potentially chucking away her family, or thinks she can act like this and that be OK and still have me be around (like she's taking me being a decent man a loving husband for granted). Is this similar to your situation in some way, do you have more you can bring to the conversation around that? Thanks man!

Onward, AND SORRY FOR ALL MY LONG POSTS!! I think out loud, obviously =)

So what if things aren't done the way I'd like? Sure, good point, I mean she's not there to serve me. But its just, I might be in a fairy tale here, but I thought that in "good" relationships, you both cared about what the other one wanted, and you spent a part of your lives together trying to enrich each others, and giving a damn when the other is upset about something you're doing or have done.

It's just that part, that she doesn't care if I'm upset, unhappy, doesn't give me the opportunity to speak to her calmly about it (she just tunes out and doesn't talk about it). That's why I'm feeling unloved and like she doesn't care.

But hey, you're absolutely right, I can only do what I myself can do from here on out, and you might have read above that I'm very mindful of our children in this situation. I know that leaving is something I've thought about and will probably have some people suggesting here (thanks for all opinions! Seriously! ), but I have to think seriously about how my choices affect the relationship and how that will affect our children's lives.

So, so what if it's not clean, or she's turning a blind eye to the children being on computers / iPads for hours on end before and after school (they're following one parent's example here, the easier one to follow, I don't blame them, they're just kids), or if when she does "cook" maybe half the time, this is her buying take out food and filling them up on junk. Those kind of things, aren't the end of the world, you're right, but I'm struggling with my role in being the father of the family. If I see something which I think is affecting our children badly, I'm inclined to discuss it with her. But lately I often won't, as I've grown accustomed to these conversations going nowhere.

So, I guest what you're saying to help me is... she's setting a bad example, sure, but I can't change her, so the best I can do is set the best example I can in the time I have with the family? Could you let me know your thoughts on my interpretation here?

And that I should have faith that eventually, she will come to see that her choices may not have been the best?
That seems fair to her, being that she is her own person, though if I'm truly honest, I do find this a difficult pill to swallow. In my view, she's making bad choices, I think most people could see that. And one of the suggestions is that the best thing for me to do is let her be and let her come into herself at her own pace and in her own time (achieving this by tuning out rather than facing reality), while I seriously "tune in" to try to lead my family and provide for us almost single handed.
BTW, I'm not disagreeing with your opinion here, your insight is really helpful and is positive towards keeping the relationship and family working. I think I'm just trying to voice more of my frustrations with her / the situation (not you, I promise!! ), that this is unfair and I FEEL the solution should be obvious, but to her, it seems, that she's fine as isn't responsible, doesn't need to pull her weight, finding herself in her own time is an acceptable reason to tune out of reality.

You can probably see that this is the part I struggle with the most. I think maybe I just don't understand where her head is at. And unfortunately, she won't talk to me about this. Do you have any insights from your own experiences as to where she might be at and why she might be making these choices? (I hope it's not as simple as "it's just easier to party online than it is to raise 3 kids". While that is true, fantasy is easier than reality, she made choices, we both did, and to me, it's only right that she lives with that, and only wrong that she hide from it in fantasy).


You're saying "trust me guy" about enjoying the independence right? So you mean, for example, make the most of spending the weekend out with my children without her (if she doesn't want to come) and enjoy the independence of parenting them in my own way in her absence? I might have got you wrong here, I'm just not sure what you mean by "the independence". I think I'm confusing it with actually separating for a period (not divorce) and seeing how things go. I could definitely roll with that and enjoy that aspect of the experience. That's how many of my recent weekends have been. I've taken the kids out and taught them how to ride their bikes while pushing the youngest in her pram alongside, or yesterday I arranged for them to go see my parents for the day and I went out tramping with a colleague (I invited her, but she wasn't keen). Is this what you're talking about?

I totally agree with you that I'm making no gains by complaining to her, or about her. The facts speak for themselves, so I'm best to represent myself by my actions of trying to do the best by my family. Thanks for affirming that!

I agree also that she's her own person and as a woman, she has the choice to follow me or get left behind. She also has the choice to choose when she'll look after the children and do what needs to be done to care for our home and perhaps better herself so that when the time comes for her to begin working and supporting the family financially as well as caring (like I am now). Unfortunately, time has shown that she's choosing not to do these things most of the time, and it's getting in my way. It's much more difficult for me to experiment or find myself or work towards my passions when I'm focusing on making up for her deficiencies as a wife and mother because of her bad choices.

At the end of the day, that is what I will always do, as our children are so important, they didn't ask to be born into this situation. I believe I must do the best by them. Perhaps she doesn't believe what I believe. She's her own person.

But getting back to your observation and your belief that a wife should be given the chance through understanding, unconditional love and support, my question is... To what extent when she won't extend the same back to me, her husband? Would you suggest this if its at the cost of myself being unable to do the same? At what point do I change from being a good husband to being a doormat? Where's the line, and am I already over it? Or am I managing to maintain a balance?

This was a really good insight / belief that you shared, and I think my question is a good one. I'm really keen to hear your thoughts on where a line gets drawn. All these things (like much of life) are a tough balancing act. That's why I'm here trying to get an opinion on how well I'm balancing everything.

"If you have to beat'em or tell them how YOU want things, you don't need'em, period". Oh yeah, I know! I'm there, trust me! I've come to terms with the fact that she doesn't care for me like she used to and doesn't seem to want me, that's OK. What I've got to consider in light of your response is, how does me not needing her affect our children?
She doesn't need me anymore, that's cool, I don't NEED her either, not in a vengeful way, just that I'm not going to go all "but I love her so much, I'll just die if she doesn't love me again". If she doesn't love me, fine, we talk about it. When she doesn't talk or return the effort, I go, "Fine, well you can't really think it fair for me just to be cool with that". So I drift away from her too and we fall out of love. It takes two to tango. We don't have that two anymore, so we must conquer our obstacles apart.

What do you mean "most females with 3 kids for 6 years still have the COW feelings deep inside"? As in, she still feels like a cow (b1tch) towards me and it takes her a while to forgive me? If so, for what? We both made those choices, together. But I don't think that's what you meant?
Sorry, I've misinterpreted that eh!! If you get a moment, could you go a little deeper into what you mean, and what I am probably missing about my wife by making it about me? It sounds like very important stuff, especially for me personally as I have a tendency to miss the "people" factor.

You're dead on right that my actions will speak louder than my words. So the number 4 of my likely plan is probably bang on as well. I do want my future with her, but I do want more than this. Taking positive actions myself will work towards turning the tides slowly, I'm sure. Even if it doesn't, I'll know I did the best I could.

And she does have a BIG job. She must get overwhelmed and look for a means of escape. Perhaps not all woman / mothers do this, but she is my lady, and the mother of my children, that's that forever and onward, so mine to deal with, warts and all.
Tis a tricky one for sure.
I think finding out more from yourself will help. Cheers for everything you've contributed so far. I really do appreciate it. Good on you!

idk man, you seem to be doing everything a husband SHOULD be doing..its this day in age with peoples fascination with technology and cyberspace...not having to deal with real life..some prefer it that way, your actually being alil too soft towards her...probably the only thing wrong that your doing, I know if it was me i'd put up with maybe HALF of that before I jumped her and tell her to getoff the computer to live real life, I take it YOUR paying for everything right? I suggest to shutoff your internet so she could see what she has. F' THAT! Haha...yea I'm alil harsh, but that's how it needsa be nowadays.

HAHAHA! Thanks man. Yep, you're right in many ways. I might still be being too easy and hence enabling her behaviour.
Let me share what happened a year ago (in brief hopefully).
I got fed up with her behaviour, confronted her several times and said enough's enough, I started taking the modem to work with me (she went to her parent's all day and used theirs). I approached them and told them what I was trying to do and what my concerns were for the kids (they said I was doing it the wrong way and I should talk to her. I said, oh yeah, I've talked myself silly, she doesn't want to listen. They said, you're still doing the wrong thing, we won't stop her from using our internet. From then on, they saw me as the aggressor.
So we had many more talks, first calm, then with me being annoyed and saying "what makes you think this is OK, put yourself in my shoes, is this what you'd want if I were doing the same thing, etc".
I left one night, she started freaking out and I came back half way through the next day, saying "things NEED to change". Promises from her, which were eventually broken. More talks, then more fights, no change. So I left for 5 days then, which might have back fired on me. At first she was upset and said "Look I'm sorry, I know I haven't been a good wife or mother, I've been coping with a pain of mine in my own way and not considering how it affects you". I thought, GREAT, maybe this is a turnaround.
Unfortunately, the next day (I hadn't gone home yet), she'd changed her mind after talking with her online friends who had suggested that I didn't actually love her, but only loved the idea of what I wanted her to be. Now if that was true, I wouldn't be trying so hard, I do love her (maybe did now), I don't like how she's acting but that doesn't change my love. The thing is, she wasn't always like this, it started a year after we married, so who she is now is different to the woman I married too. So it's not an idea of what I want her to be, it's what I know she is deep down that I love(d) about her, the strength she has, the honesty in the face of adversity, her dreams and aspirations in sync with mine, our passion for each other, that's what I love, and that's what we had. That's what I'm fighting to get back, and the fact that I'm fighting and not giving up shows (through action) that I love her, at least in my view. I've told this to her, and she gets it, but her love communication style is more focused around love poems and romantic deeds and unconditional love, which is fine and I did a lot of that especially early on, but it gets hard, even unreasonable to keep doing that when she's degrading more and more, it's even counter-productive I'd say.
In my book, fair's fair, and you give and you take, you don't keep giving and giving if the other person just keeps taking. They need to give too. That's my view being in contrast to her view, that "true love means you do anything for the other person, no matter what".
Hehe, I just thought, if I had to really simplify this... "She wants a door mat, I don't make a good door mat, but we have kids and I don't want to play a part in f**king them up by leaving. Suggestions anyone??" Haha.

So, the 5 days away seemed to backfire, because of course, she confided in her online friends emotionally and it pushed us further apart (pulled us back together initially, but then backfired). I went back and things got better for a few months. She started a vegetable garden, we brought 2 chickens which she looked after, she started taking the kids to organised activities (swimming lessons, karate, etc) and to answer your question, I pay for 95% of everything, she pays for odd things (takeaways, treats, etc) with a bit of an allowance her parents still pay her.

Things seemed to improve a lot, and I gave lots of positive reinforcement and we spent lots of evenings together (at least that's how I felt about it), but relapse for her, she slowly went back to it. My questions of whether she was happy to go back where we'd come from and throw away both of our hard work fell on deaf ears and I was made out to be the bad guy who was never happy, or the clingy husband.

Fast forward to now where her online time has just kept on increasing, but my options have diminished. Oh and the chickens, filthy because she doesn't clean up after them and forgets to feed them. So I've put my foot down and said they have to go. She fought, as usual, until her parents confided in me that they agreed that it was gross and told her they'd pay her $1,000 to get rid of them! Hasn't happened yet, but she's said she'll do it. Sometime...
I suppose in summary, I've tried what you've said, doesn't work (her parents were right about that much!).
Thanks though, that needed to come out to say that I've tried that approach.
Cheers heaps!

The whole "SHOULD be doing" part has been an interesting point in my discussions with her. In short, she's anti expectations, doesn't think I should have my own pre-conceived expectations of her. She has some expectations of me, but I think she suppresses a number of others, thus not giving me the opportunity and information I need to make positive changes for our relationship. Perhaps she just doesn't want to go there, because if she complains about me, she knows already that I'll have things to complain about back.
Maybe that there's my opportunity! Get her to complain about me, and then don't complain at all back! Being easy on her, I know, but I'm at the point of trying to fry eggs on my forehead if someone told me that'd work!! (lol, not literally).

HAHAHA! Thanks man. Yep, you're right in many ways. I might still be being too easy and hence enabling her behaviour.
Let me share what happened a year ago (in brief hopefully).
I got fed up with her behaviour, confronted her several times and said enough's enough, I started taking the modem to work with me (she went to her parent's all day and used theirs). I approached them and told them what I was trying to do and what my concerns were for the kids (they said I was doing it the wrong way and I should talk to her. I said, oh yeah, I've talked myself silly, she doesn't want to listen. They said, you're still doing the wrong thing, we won't stop her from using our internet. From then on, they saw me as the aggressor.
So we had many more talks, first calm, then with me being annoyed and saying "what makes you think this is OK, put yourself in my shoes, is this what you'd want if I were doing the same thing, etc".
I left one night, she started freaking out and I came back half way through the next day, saying "things NEED to change". Promises from her, which were eventually broken. More talks, then more fights, no change. So I left for 5 days then, which might have back fired on me. At first she was upset and said "Look I'm sorry, I know I haven't been a good wife or mother, I've been coping with a pain of mine in my own way and not considering how it affects you". I thought, GREAT, maybe this is a turnaround.
Unfortunately, the next day (I hadn't gone home yet), she'd changed her mind after talking with her online friends who had suggested that I didn't actually love her, but only loved the idea of what I wanted her to be. Now if that was true, I wouldn't be trying to hard, I do love her (did maybe), I don't like how she's acting but that doesn't change my love. The thing is, she wasn't always like this, it started a year after we married, so who she is now is different to the woman I married too. So it's not an idea of what I want her to be, it's what I know she is deep down that I love(d) about her, the strength she has, the honesty in the face of adversity, her dreams and aspirations in sync with mine, our passion for each other, that's what I love, and that's what we had. That's what I'm fighting to get back, and the fact that I'm fighting and not giving up shows (through action) that I love her, at least in my view. I've told this to her, and she gets it, but her love communication style is more focused around love poems and romantic deeds and unconditional love, which is fine and I did a lot of that especially early on, but it gets hard, even unreasonable to keep doing that when she's degrading more and more, it's even counter-productive I'd say.

So, the 5 days away seemed to backfire, because of course, she confided in her online friends emotionally and it pushed us further apart (pulled us back together initially, but then backfired). I went back and things got better for a few months. She started a vegetable garden, we brought 2 chickens which she looked after, she started taking the kids to organised activities (swimming lessons, karate, etc) and to answer your question, I pay for 95% of everything, she pays for odd things (takeaways, treats, etc) with a bit of an allowance her parents still pay her.

Things seemed to improve a lot, and I gave lots of positive reinforcement and we spent lots of evenings together (at least that's how I felt about it), but relapse for her, she slowly went back to it. My questions of whether she was happy to go back where we'd come from and throw away both of our hard work fell on deaf ears and I was made out to be the bad guy who was never happy.

Fast forward to now where her online time has just kept on increasing, but my options have diminished.
I suppose in summary, I've tried what you've said, doesn't work (her parents were right about that much!).
Thanks though, that needed to come out to say that I've tried that approach.
Cheers heaps!I didn't believe in giving up a marriage until I got married haha, I know it sucks.. but you and your kids would probably be better off... just because the mom gave birth don't necessarily mean they get the kids nowadays... men have been winning custody more and more. Might want to look into that... she brought it on herself.

I didn't believe in giving up a marriage til I got married haha, I know it sucks..but you n ur kids would probably be better off...just because the mom gave birth don't necessarily mean they get the kids nowadays...men have been winning custody more n more. Might wanna look into that...she brought it on herself.

True. Checking that out is an action I CAN take. Better to know than to assume. Thanks man.

True. Checking that out is an action I CAN take. Better to know than to assume. Thanks man.your welcome dude.