In a parody of a long forgotten movie NK has threatened the US

U.S. says U.N. sanctions 'will bite' after North Korea threatens nuclear attack - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/07/world/asia/un-north-korea-sanctions/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)

No if you really tried hard you wouldn't know they were there but North Korea continues decades of beligerent behavior and even threatens to tear up the armistice. If you believe the buzz NK even possesses a long rang rocket and nuclear device with which they could attack the US. Sanctions haven't worked, talks haven't worked and the last time it was tried, military action didn't work. This last bastion of Stalinist comunism must be dislodged, but how do you do it without starting WWWIV.

I have a plan, instead of cutting them off from aid, let's use NK as a dumping ground for all the surpluses we have in the west, flood them with stockpiles of food, and last years consumer goods so they are too busy picking over the goodies to make trouble, just think, you could get rid of Prius cars in an instant, or Volts and all those plasma TV's

But.. but.. I want a Prius or a Volt!
Obviously I am missing the point. I do remember declaring war on the US to lose and get foreign aid.
It's a sad country. The people are literally starving while right over the border SK is one of the best economies in the world.

Dennis Rodman told me the people love the fearless leader. . I guess his baskeball tour did not extend to the concentration camps.
Villages turned into CONCENTRATION CAMPS in North Korea as brutal regime struggles to house hundreds of thousands of political prisoners | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2289574/Villages-turned-CONCENTRATION-CAMPS-North-Korea-brutal-regime-struggles-house-hundreds-thousands-political-prisoners.html)

As far as a preemptive attack on the US ? I think Berkeley has the perfect answer .The city is a “nuclear-free” zone. They're safe . For the rest of us ;aint Star Wars looking better every day ?

Dennis Rodman told me the people love the fearless leader. .I guess his baskeball tour did not extend to the concentration camps.
Villages turned into CONCENTRATION CAMPS in North Korea as brutal regime struggles to house hundreds of thousands of political prisoners | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2289574/Villages-turned-CONCENTRATION-CAMPS-North-Korea-brutal-regime-struggles-house-hundreds-thousands-political-prisoners.html)

As far as a preemptive attack on the US ? I think Berkeley has the perfect answer .The city is a “nuclear-free” zone. They're safe . For the rest of us ;aint Star Wars looking better every day ?

Yes there is a lot that is wrong in North Korea and they do resist being brought in the greater Asian sphere of cooperation and prosperity, perhaps they cannot see it through the smog that blows East fron China.

You and I both know they love "the fearless leader" because they are a godless society and have nothing else to worship. They cannot worship the holy dollar, as you do, because they don't have them. As to nuclear attack I expect that MAD still works and I think NK has signed on to your idea. What part of if you are a fearless leader you must appear fearless do you not understand?

Star Wars, yes whatever happened to that?

Star Wars, yes whatever happened to that?

The latest manifestation of it is called 'Iron Dome'

the latest manifestation of it is called 'Iron Dome'

Yes you needed the Israeli to help you perfect that, I though you would be much more advanced yourselves with satellites capable of intercepting missles

The opposite is true . WE helped the Israelis develop Iron Dome. Funny that you support the militarization of space. How do you know we don't have that capability ?

But all I can confirm is ground based interceptors.

Let's put it this way. Now that we have a confirmed threat ;why would we allow the NORKS to fire up a multi-staged rocket ,and not destroy it on the ground... even if they claim it's a test ?

the opposite is true . WE helped the Israelis develop Iron Dome. funny that you support the militarization of space. How do you know we don't have that capability ?

But all I can confirm is ground based interceptors.

Let's put it this way. Now that we have a confirmed threat ;why would we allow the NORKS to fire up a multi-staged rocket ,and not destroy it on the ground ...even if they claim it's a test ?

So you will use HAARP and it will all be over, Did I say I was in favour of space based weapons, that would be in contravention of treaties, no I just asked what happened to that development? But you know as well as I do we will not venture far from this planet without weapons going along with us. Perhaps that si why we haven't gone anywhere yet, no weapons?

I know that certain nations are developing that capability that couldn't give a rat's @ss about 'treaties' . They've already littered lower earth orbit with the remains of their laser based anti-satellite experiments .

Exxpect a few of your own there Tom and what was that craft that kept disappearing for months

isn't that cool! It's the X-37B... hardly a secret . It's on it's 2nd mission.
USA-240 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA-240)

I think it very uncool you have a stealth vehicle in space, no wonder your enemies are paranoid and want to launch preemptive strikes, the idea of preemptive strikes they got from you...

How stealth is it ? It's orbit was picked up and tracked by kids with toy telescopes from their back yard.


no wonder your enemies are paranoid and want to launch preemptive strikes
Let the NORKS try . I still say that his bombast gives us justification for blasting a test launch on it's pad. My biggest concern is that our feckless leader would not come to the defense of our allies. That by the way should be your big concern too.

Kim Jung Uncool can say what he likes, but I expect any strike by him on any nation will be retaliated

Oh the irony!! Emperor Zero's flunky Jay Carney said :
'I can tell you that the United States is fully capable of defending against any North Korean ballistic missile attack," ......"our recent success in returning to testing of the upgraded version of the so-called GBI (ground based interceptor), or the CE2 missile, will keep us on a good trajectory to improve our defense capability against limited ballistic missile threats such as those from North Korea. But let's be clear, we are fully capable of dealing with that threat."

What he fails to mention is that our fearless leader OPPOSED missile defense as a Senator and ran on a platform to gut the funding of missile defense research . During the 2008 campaign he said ;"I will cut investments in unproven missile defense systems. I will not weaponize space."
And that was one campaign promise he kept .
His 2010 defense budget cut $1.4 billion from missile defense . The cuts reduced funding for the Airborne Laser boost-phase program . He ended the Multiple Kill Vehicle and Kinetic Energy Interceptor program. And he reneged on a deal to provide interceptors and radar sites to Poland and the Czech Republic.
At a 2012 Security Summit in Seoul South Korea He was caught on open mike telling Dmitry Medvedev that he would deal with the Russian issues with the US missile defense programs if Putin would give him some space.
Clearly the President is and has been opposed to the very programs his 'Baghdad Bob ' now touts as our answer to the NORK challenge. He counts on the American sheeple to forget such inconvenient truths .

Ah so Star Wars no more but don't worry that NK missile will probably not get to you the Japanese will shoot it down for you

I guess the prez was plotting the sequester before he proposed the sequester.

Yes that's leadership and strategy, he recognised the military is overblown and wasting money far beyond what is needed for defense, you should be thankfull that he has already made the cuts in the right place even if the republicans don't like them

Gee I thought the evil repubics forced the cuts on the President. The way General Odierno was crying you would have thought the military couldn't defend a sand castle .

No Clete ,the cuts on missile defense are short sighted .For him to tout the progress of the program as he guts it at the same time shows how much of a weasel he is .

Tom get used to it you have over reached and there are better things to do with the money, like pay the interest bill

So it's over reach to defend the nation against a nuclear strike ? OK then

When has there been a nuclear strike other then those you perpetrated? You are paranoid, now I understand why this might be but paranoid nevertheless

You are free to disregard the threats of dictators History has taught me to take what they say seriously .

Tom NK is a freckless little country more trouble than it is worth, even it's ally China has had enough, they don't want the possibility of a nuclear war on the Korean peninsula or to be drawn into a war with the US again. My nation is not the target of NK rhetoric, they have no reason to attack us, but as we take our seat on the security council that might change but there is no target their rockets might reach of real concern. If there is a concern it is that they will polarise the nations of the region and disrupt economic activity

You live on the edge of a tinderbox about the explode and you don't even know it.

What we would hope is you don't throw oil on the fire

The New York Slimes says that South Korea is talking about developing its own nuclear arsenal.
Opinions like Mr. Kwon's appear to be spreading. Two opinion polls conducted after the third test, one by Gallup Korea and the other by the Asan Institute for Policy Studies, found that 64 to 66.5 percent of the respondents supported the idea that South Korea should develop its own nuclear weapons, similar to polls after the Yeonpyeong attack in 2010.

“Having a nuclear North Korea is like facing a person holding a gun with just your bare hands,” said Mr. Kwon, the engineer. South Koreans should have “our own nuclear capabilities, in case the U.S. pulls out like it did in Vietnam.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/11/world/asia/as-north-korea-blusters-south-breaks-taboo-on-nuclear-talk.html?pagewanted=all

Why after more than 50 years does South Korea suddenly have these doubts? Why after more than half a century, despite a Peace Constitution, is Japan de facto re-arming? What has changed?
That type of proliferation will happen if the US isn't seen as a credible deterent to the NORKS and China .

The New York Slimes says that South Korea is talking about developing its own nuclear arsenal.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/11/world/asia/as-north-korea-blusters-south-breaks-taboo-on-nuclear-talk.html?pagewanted=all

Why after more than 50 years does South Korea suddenly have these doubts? Why after more than half a century, despite a Peace Constitution, is Japan de facto re-arming? What has changed?
That type of proliferation will happen if the US isn't seen as a credible deterent to the NORKS and China .

Never fear, Susan Rice may be coming to the rescue...

Susan Rice as national security adviser? U.N. ambassador said to be front-runner (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/susan-rice-as-national-security-adviser-un-ambassador-said-to-be-front-runner/2013/03/09/3e54feba-8383-11e2-b99e-6baf4ebe42df_story.html?hpid=z2)

She's on Youtube now looking for anti-Nork videos .

She's on Youtube now looking for anti-Nork videos .

Preparation.

Why after more than 50 years does South Korea suddenly have these doubts? Why after more than half a century, despite a Peace Constitution, is Japan de facto re-arming? What has changed?
That type of proliferation will happen if the US isn't seen as a credible deterent to the NORKS and China .

China has had a nuclear deterent for years it hasn't proven to be a problem, but the equation has changed for South Korea, with the north nuclear capable, the south feels threatened at a higher level and wants added assurance. There is obviously something nuts in the hermit kingdom and it has been there for a very long time

It's not China's nukes... it's their growing naval capability ,and aggressive use of it in so called disputed territories. They are a threat to almost all their immediate neighbors from Tibet and India in the West ,to Japan and Taiwan in the East , AND every bordering nation in between

it's not China's nukes ... it's their growing naval capability ,and aggressive use of it in so called disputed territories. They are a threat to almost all their immediate neighbors from Tibet and India in the West ,to Japan and Taiwan in the East , AND every bordering nation in between

Yes one aircraft carrier is a threat, Tibet doesn't exist tom and they have made no aggressive moves against India or any other nation in the west, Taiwan is an internal issue for the chinese and Japan are ancient enemies reinforced by their despicable actions before and during WWII. I am not really cocerned about some asian nations having at it Tom other than we have all put too much manufacturing capacity in the hands of China. The US needs to be very afraid of an asian war, not because they might attack you but because it will devistate your economy

Tibet doesn't exist tom I see what side you're on in their brutal suppression of Tibet.. They don't exist ?Tell that to the hundred+ monks who have self immolated in protest. Hmm maybe that news is being suppressed in the Aussie press like here. Yeah I know . The Chi-coms think they can wait out the Dalai Lama ,and all will be forgotten .

Tom Tibet was annexed sixty years ago and I didn't see the US stepping in to stop it, the way it works in China is if you don't stir up the nationalist and separatist thing then you don't have trouble, yes it was unfortunate China annexed Tibet I expect you would like them to give back parts of sichan and quinhi accuired centuries ago at the same time you might ask the Israeli to give back Golan. The problem is that the Tibetians lost the fight because they didn't have the military muscle to keep China out, and the world could care less, being otherwise occupied with korea, etc and no doubt there were lots of ancient claims. What I don't like is the hyprocracy of crying foul about the Tibetian people now because it is politically expedient to do so

Just because they were annexed doesn't mean they don't exist . The Dalai Lama had a gun held to his hand when he signed to country over to China. During the Great Leap Forward between 200,000 and 1,000,000 Tibetans died. So no I do not recognize Chinese sovereignty .

Stop rewriting history Tom, in any case this thread is not about Tibet but North Korea and the latest is they are going to rein bullets, not nukes. The whole country is off their face with propaganda and there are people who actually want to revive the Korean War. You would think a couple of wars recently would have taught them something, but then, I expect they have been too busy building bombs and holding parades to impress the dear leader to learn lessons in military strategy

New York Slimes noted that 2/3 of South Koreans now support developing their own nuclear deterrent.


Beyond the immediate fear of a military provocation, analysts say deeper anxieties are also at work in the South. One of the biggest is the creeping resurgence of old fears about the reliability of this nation's longtime protector, the United States. Experts say the talk of South Korea's acquiring nuclear weapons is an oblique way to voice the concerns of a small but growing number of South Koreans that the United States, either because of budget cuts or a lack of will, may one day no longer act as the South's ultimate insurance policy.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/11/world/asia/as-north-korea-blusters-south-breaks-taboo-on-nuclear-talk.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

They join current allies Japan, the Philippines, Taiwan, who are beginning to realize that the under Emperor Zero ,they are on their own. In the Middle East ,they confront a similar problem as the 12ers continue to develop their nuke program virtually undeterred .
Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia, who could easily go nuclear if they choose. So the only thing that is preventing proliferation beyond everyone's imagination is what's left of the promise of an American defense umbrella.

Oh did you hear that Obama is unilaterally dismantling the American nuclear capability ?
The David Sanger of the Slimes reported the day before the SOTU that the administration is looking to cut the current nuclear force down 30 percent.


The nuclear reduction plan has been debated inside the administration for two years, and the options have been on Mr. Obama's desk for months. But the document was left untouched through the presidential election. The president wanted to avoid making the reductions a campaign issue with Mitt Romney...
Politics (http://m.startribune.com/politics/?id=190625241&c=y)

So at a time where our allies are questioning our commitment to their defense ;where Zero has demonstrated a preference to retreat ,or at best lead from behind ;a time where he has proven his desire to gut the US military ,including the nuclear deterrence ;does it surprise anyone that the forces of evil are emboldened ?

Wouldn't worry Tom you have more than enough nuclear capability to kill us all

With Obama depleting existing stock and not even upgrading what's left ;we will have about 1000 aged and deteriorating nukes for our umbrella .

Well maintained old nukes are effective if needed. Bet you can't tell if its an old nuke, or new one that's being exploded over your head.

with Obama depleting existing stock and not even upgrading what's left ;we will have about 1000 aged and deteriorating nukes for our umbrella .

More than enough, you only need one for NK, beyond Pongyang there is nothing, besides your fleet of aircraft carriers is more than equal to the task, talk about a belt and braces approach to life

Well maintained old nukes are effective if needed. Bet you can't tell if its an old nuke, or new one thats being exploded over your head.

Oh if only our enemies thought in terms of reductionism. If Zero pursues his dream of a nuclear free world, Japan, South Korea and other countries long sheltered under America's atomic umbrella will have urgent second thoughts. He (and you apparently )do not comprehend that unilateral U.S. strategic weapons reductions are as likely to encourage nuclear proliferation as reduce it.

That fear may well be so, but everyone you take off the black market is one less to worry about. We have been here before with India, and Pakistan, remember? I am not saying be less alert about the saber rattling of NK, but don't panic, or let our allies, and protected countries panic either.

What should we do? Sell SK, and Japan nukes, or nuke NK? That would be escalation.

No Tal let each progess according to their policy. Possession of nukes doesn't necessarily mean they will be used. Perhaps there is need for a deterrent on the doorstep in Asia. India and Pakistan have their problems but they haven't launched into all out war. Japan and SK should counter NK and present Kim Jung Uncool with a believable prospect of obliteration and just maybe it might be a counter to recent Chinese aggression

That mouse is roaring again. Kim Jong Uncool wants to kill everyone, but the person he wants to kill is just too far away so he has cut the hot line, now that person does not exist.

What I don't get is how this maniac thinks he can win, at best all he will get is a waste land. He might have an army of millions but he has no real ability to transport them anywhere other than a short walk south. You would think that history might have taught him something. The last time the US confronted North Korea it ended in stalemate and devistation

The Kim Dynasty have always ushered in a new wave of violence and bloodshed to gain legitimacy . This time Kim's toys have gotten much deadlier. It's bad enough that the NRKS have advanced their nuke program to a point that they successfully detonated a test ,and have successfully tested staged ballistic missiles... but the bigger problem is that the
12ers in Tehran are financing the whole enterprise and will benefit from the technology transfer . The pathway to an Iranian nuke can be traced back to the NORKS ;to Pakistan ;to China. Out of control proliferation has China's fingerprints all over it.

I don't think the Chinese stupid enough to want another state in their region with the bomb, particularly not an unstable one like NK

I think the young new leader has to at least talk tough or his own will eat him for lunch. I mean if he can' yell at the west and let them be the enemy, then his own people will will act on their empty bellies and then where will China be?

I don't think the chinese would be concerned by regime change in NK, it would be another good market for them if it opened up and they could do with less tension in the region

Officially on NK's part at least - a state of war exists

North Korea declares a state of war as attack plan glimpsed in background | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/world-news/asia/glimpse-of-north-koreas-plan-of-attack-on-us/story-fnh81fz8-1226609165555)

NK is advancing its brinkmanship, so if SK so much as blink it will be a provocation. It appears the US gun boat up the river tactics of last week went down like a lead balloon in NK. It was polite of them to tell us all this time, instead of just attacking

Yeah blame America .

[W]e do have one pretty good metric with which to judge the country's intentions: the Kaesong Industrial Complex. The Kaesong Industrial Complex, located just across the northern side of the border, is staffed by South and North Koreans. It can't function without Pyongyang's daily okay. If the North suddenly shuts down Kaesong at some point, watch out. But as long as it's still running, as it has been throughout the provocations and tensions of the last few weeks, we can probably – probably — assume that North Korea is not actually planning to launch a war.
A very good sign that North Korea is bluffing about war (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/03/29/a-very-good-sign-that-north-korea-is-bluffing-about-war/?wprss=rss_world)

Well if the caps fits, wear it. Your actions, once again were unhelpfull. Do you think they weren't aware of your capabilities. No, you had to remind them at the wrong time. You don't have a diplomatic bone in your body, you have to always play the bully

Yeah diplomacy has worked so well in the past . The language that bullies like the un-Kim understand is a punch in the mouth ;not sweet talk concessions by Jean Francois Kerry and his ilk.
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2013/03/north-korea-has-issued-its-ultimate-definite-last-totally-final-warning/63706/

No Tom it hasn't worked in sixty years

The Chinese have increased its military posture along the North Korean border including troop movements and warplane activity. They are now conducting unscheduled exercises in the Yellow Sea that includes 'live fire' on Vietnamese fishing vessels ; and amphibious assault exercises 80 km from Malaysia .

Russian President Vladdy Putin ordered a surprise military exercise from his presidential jet on a flight home from the BRICS meeting in South Africa. It is being conducted in the Black Sea .

Chinese President Xi Jinping told his South Korean counterpart on Wednesday that Beijing is willing to help reconciliation between South and North Korea, the foreign ministry said.

"China is willing to provide the necessary assistance to advance South-North reconciliation and cooperation," Xi told President Park Geun-Hye in a phone call, according to a statement on the ministry website.

China willing to help with Korea reconciliation - The West Australian (http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/world/16410009/china-willing-to-help-with-korea-reconciliation/)
By reconcilliation ,he means a take over of South Korea.

"If there is any provocation against South Korea and its people, there should be a strong response in initial combat without any political considerations," South Korean President Park Geun-hye told the defense minister and senior officials at a meeting on Monday.

South Korea vows fast response to North; U.S. positions destroyer | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/01/us-korea-north-idUSBRE93002620130401)
Park's mother was killed by a North Korean assassin's bullet that was intended for her father .I don't think she will back down from the NORKS intimidations .

Stung by criticism that its response to the shelling of a South Korean island in 2010 was tardy and weak, Seoul has also threatened to target North Korean leader Kim Jong-un and to destroy statues of the ruling Kim dynasty in the event of any new attack, a plan that has outraged Pyongyang.
Like 1950 ;this situation is one spark away from spiraling out of control.

Like 1950 ;this situation is one spark away from spiraling out of control.

Tom we don't know if this is about internal NK politics or something else. The santions have been unhelpful because they don't elicit the required response. Undoubtedly the NK see it as we have tried to talk to these people but they just push us further all the time, while the US sees it as the NK are intractiable. The south hasn't stopped giving aid to the north. What China does it does for its own purposes, it can't afford a war, it is not isolated now as it was in 1950. Reunification may be a good thing and it doesn't need to be a northern take over, China understands the benefits of a market economy

Good ;then let the Chinese do a regime change on the Kim dynasty . You make it sound that the Kims are the puppet master instead of the other way around.

China understands the benefits of a market economy keep deluding yourself . What they have is a failed Potamkin economy that is about to have the mother of all bubble bursts . The only leverage they will have is muscle... and that is why they have been flexing it so freely these last few years .

If China fails then we are all in trouble. No economy is isolated from any other in this world except maybe NK. China knows we need them but they need us also. You want to laugh at them but they have sustained growth and in doing so they have changed their economy and upgraded their inferstructure as well as commencing new industries. The way they are organised is different to your economy they have a longer term view and an energy you can only envy

The NORKS closed access to the Kaesong Industrial Park.
Experts said that we shouldn't take seriously the harsh rhetoric coming from the un-Kim as long as long Kaesong was in operation. Thus, this news is very bad indeed.

Tom I agree that escalation in any form is bad news. NK is punishing the South because they are the only available non military target. It is tit-for-tat diplomacy, you sanction us, we sanction you. That has what it has been so far, we take away your prizes so you will talk to us and show us respect. This is an oriental head thing

We enter the era of the suitcase bomb

North Korea declares it has given approval for a nuclear attack on the United States | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/world-news/north-korea-gives-final-approval-for-nuclear-attack-on-united-states/story-fndir2ev-1226612136732)

NK's rhetoric has entered a new phase, they are no longer talking about striking the US with rockets but about more sophisticated means or perhaps like the movie an incursion into the US itself.

The US deploys advanced missile defense ,the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense System (THAAD), in Guam . The President ordered an increase in our ground based interceptor force in Alaska ;and the deployment of two destroyers equipped with Aegis missile defense systems, the Decatur and the John McCain.

Secretary Chuck Hagel said the NORKS represent a "present a real and clear danger." Those are not just words to be dismissed lightly. That's because threats by the un-Kim to nuke the US has to be taken seriously. They successfully tested a nuclear device recently ;and they also successfully launched a 3 stage rocket out of the atmosphere . If they were to successfully launch a multi-stage rocket that was even carrying a low grade nuke;and were able to successfully detonate it over the continental US at a high altitude ;the resulting EMP could fry electronics throughout the US.

The damage level could be sufficient to be catastrophic to the Nation, and our current vulnerability invites attack.
—EMP Commission Report, 2004
Critical national security and homeland defense missions are at an unacceptably high risk of extended outage from failure of the electric grid.
—Defense Science Board, Feb 2008

There is very little in the way of back-up capability to the electric grid (upon
Which the communications infrastructure is vitally dependent). Individual
Homes rarely have an independent source of electric power, industry has
Some continuity of operations (COOP) capability, and essential services
Such as hospitals are required to have a few days of auxiliary power to
Sustain them off the power grid. The likely scenarios caused by solar
Storms and EMP forecast a power grid loss for many times longer than
Current backup power sources, maybe even a year or more if a significant
Number of high power transformers are destroyed and would have to be remanufactured.
In some cases, such grid components are manufactured offshore
Causing even more delay. The net effect of the collapse of the electric
Grid is that communities would become localized and insular. They would
Be disconnected from the more regional conditions, the possibility of
Outside assistance such as food and medicine, and the chances of recovery
To normal. One group even explored that there might be no return to
Normal as was previously known.

There is little in the way of preparation for the loss of the electric grid.
Although there actually is a significant amount of information in the form
Of literature, websites, and planning from the local government to the
Federal agency level, there has been little effort in the form of individual
Preparation and rehearsal for such an event. This includes the stockpiling
Of food and survival kits to include radios in Faraday protection boxes with
Batteries and first aid supplies. Preparing for months without a commercial
Source of clean water (city water pressure is often dependent on electric
Pumping to storage towers) and stoppage of sewage treatment facilities
Will require new methods of survival particularly in populated areas.
http://www.csl.army.mil/usacsl/publications/InTheDark.pdf

Note how no one in the left speaks in mocking terms about 'Star Wars' technology these days.

OK so the AP quotes State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland that this crisis give Zero the chance to open up to China.
"The issue here is to continue to recognize that the threats we share are common, and the approaches are more likely to be more effective if we can work well together,"

North Korea's latest outburst of nuclear and military threats has given the U.S. a rare opportunity to build bridges with China — a potential silver lining to the simmering crisis that could revitalize the Obama administration's flagging policy pivot to Asia .
President Barack Obama recently called China's new president, Xi Jinping, as part of an effort to brief the Chinese about American plans to take steps to deter the threats coming from the North, The New York Times reported on its website Friday night...
KRudd echoed the sentiment
China and the US have chance to rebuild trust: Kevin Rudd | Mackay Daily Mercury (http://www.dailymercury.com.au/news/china-and-us-have-chance-rebuild-trust-kevin-rudd/1818087/)
He sees a "unique window" for the US to take the lead in the trust dept. In other words Zero should do a Clintoon and share our capabilities I mean ;what better way to close said deficit than to brief China on US military deployments and explaining to the Chinese just what our capabilities are?
After all the Russians are telling the world that the US build up in Korea is not about the NORKSat all ;but about China.
Obama's Korean Peninsula 'Game' Strategy - English pravda.ru (http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/04-04-2013/124214-obama_korean_peninsula-0/)

WSJ says that this flare-up and posturing is a win-win for China.
By China putting the squeeze on the NORKS (who are probably acting at the direction of China anyway) they hope for reciprocal moved by Zero regarding the recent Chinese -Tokyo tensions .

What does Beijing gain from demonstrating goodwill to Washington though? China's action may be meant to suggest that if it can act tough with North Korea, the U.S. can show a similar attitude toward its biggest treaty ally in Asia-Japan.

The true target of Beijing's actions then may not be Pyongyang at all, but rather Tokyo. Since the Japanese government nationalized the Senkaku Islands in September, Beijing-which calls the barren rocks Diaoyus-has sought to demonize and isolate its neighbor. It accuses Tokyo of harboring imperial ambitions, nurturing ultranationalist sentiments and endangering regional stability.

Nana Rolland: North Korean Pawn in a Chinese Chess Game - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324445904578281263034041072.html)
Under this scenario ; The NORKS ramp up pressure under Chinese marching orders . Then the US gives privy to the Chinese about our deployments to counter the aggression. The Chinese reign in the NORKS ,and in exchange Zero puts pressure on Japan to mend their ways. Gee what could go wrong ?

But we can be tranquil and thankful and proud
for man's been endowed with a mushroom shaped cloud.
And we know for certain that some lovely day
someone will set the spark off
and we will all be blown away.
(Kingston Trio 'The Merry Minuet')

Saber rattling and being provocative has always gotten the NORKS what they wanted in the past, but this time he is being ignored as well he should be. As long as we are ready for anything dumb he intends on doing.

And China made it plain it doesn't want others playing in its back yard

Then they better talk to this young guy.

China is calling the shots.. we like to pretend that they don't .

This proxy stuff is getting old.

Well who's the proxy you think NK is the chinese proxy, no that is a dangerous game and one China cannot afford to loose, but they can afford to loose NK

The North Koreans have now escalated to closing the border and asking foriegners to leave even though things are quiet inside the country. This has real parallels with WWII when the Japanese found themselves restricted. We need to be conscious of oriental thinking, this is all about the prestige of the leader, perhaps if BO invited him to Washington for talks it would all blow over

Screw them. If they want to seriously talk about something they can do it like a civilized society. All this bluster to make a point is stupid.

I agree but apparently the US and NK talk all the time through back channels so it is just bluster it is just that the north koreans shout loader when they are doing it. Noisy little buggers aren't they

As I said before it all about internal politics, it's just that the US is a convenient target for NK rhetoric

Former top N Korean spy shares insight into regime - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-10/former-top-north-korean-spy-speaks-out-against-regime/4621092)

Up until yesterday I agreed with the US response. But yesterday they signaled through their independent media mouthpiece that the US response to aggression would be measured an proportional. That is a huge mistake. It should be made clear to un-Kim that there will be a heavy price for aggression.

What they are saying Tom is; you fire one, we will fire one and one is all it takes.

Thing is; if 1 million NK soldiers cross the border, the US is not in a position to make a proportional response

No they are talking about you shell an island ,the SK will shell and island . Again Emperor 0 leading from behind. Now the un Kim knows how far he can take this. I would've told him instead that if we see evidence of one of those missiles he moved to the coast being fueled for launch ;we will take it out on the ground.

Ah a preemptive strike, reviving an old republican policy. No a proportional response is to fuel up a rocket.

I'm not into proportional responses . I want him to fear attacking .

I'm not into proportional responses . I want him to fear attacking .

Tom I'm sure he knows what MAD means just as you do, this is not about you (US) it is about his personal survival. I doubt he really believes the propaganda and the rhetoric but he has to talk tough, just like all dictators. Don't you remember how Saddam used to rave.

He has done a lot to reinforce a message which is basically show us some respect

Your namby pamby handling of this over years has got you to this situation

Your namby pamby handling of this over years has got you to this situation Unfortunately there is lots of truth in that statement . Clintoon Secretary of State Madeline Albright champagne toasted Kim Jong mentally ILL when he first emerged ;and Bush grew soft as his term progressed .

Yes it's all this humanitian nonsense, yes it is sad some of the NK populace suffer but short of war nothing can be done about it

Aa

So what will happen if the NORKS and Iran can't be persuaded to end their nuke program ? Containment ? Not likely... more likely proliferation.

Japan may open a plant that can produce eight tons of plutonium a year — enough to make 1,000 to 2,000 nuclear weapons annually. That's at least as many weapons as are in the entire U.S. operationally deployed nuclear force.

South Korea also wants to make plutonium-based nuclear fuels from imported U.S. power-reactor assemblies. In a Foggy Bottom press conference with secretary of state John Kerry on April 2, South Korean foreign minister Yun Byung-se made it clear that he wants to revise South Korea's current nuclear cooperative agreement with the U.S. in order to allow Seoul to make such fuel. Kerry said he hoped to resolve the matter soon. He will visit South Korean president Park Geun-hye in Seoul later this month.

What the secretary will offer President Park, though, is still unclear. If he says yes to Seoul, Japan will be dead set on opening its plant at Rokkasho. This, in turn, is likely to prompt China to up its atomic ante. Beijing has been coy about what its true nuclear capabilities are, but it has been toying with the idea of having the French build it a plutonium-extraction plant nearly identical to the one in Japan. China wants to build the plant adjacent to one of its major military nuclear-production sites in Jiayuguan.

Pyongyang Is Not Our Only Nuclear Worry - Henry Sokolski - National Review Online (http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/344746/pyongyang-not-our-only-nuclear-worry-henry-sokolski)
So how soon could this be converted into active nuclear weapons ? Well 'The Institute for Science and International Security' thinks the primitive Iranians could convert 25 kg of fissible material into a bomb in 2-3 weeks. Imagine how fast the Japanese or the South Koreans could do it .
Institute for Science and International Security › ISIS Reports › Iran › Stopping an Undetectable Iranian Bomb (http://isis-online.org/isis-reports/detail/stopping-an-undetectable-iranian-bomb/)
And why would this be necessary if both nations are already presumably under the American nuclear umbrella ?
That should be obvious . Why should they trust the US commitment to their defense when push comes to shove ? Emperor 0 has made no bones about the fact that he wants to slash the American military down to size. He has said that he wants to to defund “unproven missile defense systems” (even as he deploys them to Guam) .He wants to create a “world without nuclear weapons” ,and apparently plans to lead by example... i.e. not modernizing the nuclear arsenal.
If I was an ally ;I'd begin to question the US commitment to my defense. What we end up with is MAD... with many fingers on the button.

Okay if all the small fry are afraid of being nuked, then we should nuke a few big mouths and then every thing will go back to normal right? Or should we send Seal Team 1, 2, and three to screw up the works? Oh wait, all those vets coming back from two wars are still trained.

We should take a stronger stand against proliferation... especially by rogue "big mouths" who threaten to use them to destroy nations in their region.
Wait until you see which nations get the bomb if Iran isn't checked real soon.

Can't say I disagree Tom, and one would assume there is much we don't know going on behind closed doors, or by phone.

If I was an ally ;I'd begin to question the US commitment to my defense. What we end up with is MAD... with many fingers on the button.

What part of the existing MAD situation don't you get? We have had MAD up to here for sixty years. I applaud efforts to reduce the nuclear arsenals, not getting bitter and twisted about not having enough nukes. The truth is we can live without nukes, but if proliferation occurs then I would like my nation to possess the deterent because as you say, you can't trust the americans to look out for your interests when they are under direct threat

Yeah we would all love to sit at the campfire eating s'mores and singing kumbaya . But there are real bad actors out there and what you really want is the good guys to have the biggest weapons.
Don't worry about the US commitment to Aussie .

yea

Don't worry about the US commitment to Aussie .

We are a convenient base of operations, that's how it was in WWII and in various other skermishes, and with your renewed interest in the Pacific/Asia, but we are not the 51st state. We appreciate the alliance but it has been costly and will be again if NK attacks you

You make it sound like you weren't attacked by the Japanese.. but we know better don't we ?

Yes they had a party in Darwin harbour, sunk an american warship, but that was just over reach they had no intention of invading and we fought them successfully in PNG but again, not Australia. The Japanese quarrell was really with yourselves and the British but as we were alied we were drawn into it as undoubtedly we will be this time

Lol ,your island continent sits on the flank of the most important shipping lane in the world... and you think you are isolated and immune from world events ;except when the powers that provide for that umbrella you live under ask you to contribute. Then it's 'we were drawn into it ' as if a Japanese takeover of the Philippines would not have affected your nation at all. Get real.

Inside North Korea: Video and photos show true horror of Kim Jong-Un's evil regime - Mirror Online (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/inside-north-korea-video-photos-1826234)

lol ,your island continent sits on the flank of the most important shipping lane in the world ...and you think you are isolated and immune from world events ;except when the powers that provide for that umbrella you live under ask you to contribute. Then it's 'we were drawn into it ' as if a Japanese takeover of the Phillipines would not have affected your nation at all. Get real.

Singapore (that shipping lane you are referring to) is a long way from the Australian continent. We are no more isolated from asia than you are, but our attitude is different, we don't seek to dominate. Candidly, the japanse take over of the Philippines would not have affected us if that is all they did, anymore than the japanese takeover of Manchuria and China affected us but there was a wider conflict that we were already part of and thousands of Australian troops defended Malaya and ultimately surrendered Singapore just as you surrendered the Philippines. We have a long history of defending that part of the world and cooperating with the nations of the region without your help. We are a little more skeptical of alliances Tom than perhaps you are. A major ally cast us adrift in WWII when it suited them even when we were making a substantial contribution to their war effort. And we fought beside you in Vietnam for what, so you could give up when it suited you?

Now that mouse thinks he's on top, he's dictating the terms of surrender, I told you this was about oriental face

Kerry did his tour and came off looking like a wuss. No doubt both Pyongyang and Beijing both feel like victors . Tehran too.

Well what do you expect, this is after all their backyard and you can only come over to play when you are invited

Nonsense ;we have allies there that rely on our assistance against the Chinese aggression. What the Chinese don't get is that there is no way Zero would be doing his 'pivot East ' if he didn't think the Chinese posed a significant security threat to our allies . It's the Chinese expansion and military adventures that is prompting this American policy. Zero doesn't want this .He wants to dismantle our military and use the funds for his statist agenda.

Chinese aggression? A few uninhabited islands and fishing rights? Look I know it's all about oil. BO isn't interested in your allies and the only military adventurism in the region is yours,

Any way Mr Kim uncool has stopped his B/S perhaps those aggressive Chinese have had a word in his pink and shelllike

and the only military adventurism in the region is yours, lol , uninhabited islands is an irrelevant classification Yes there are mineral rights ,that's one issue .The greater one is the Chinese plan to control the inner and outer island chains as a defense perimeter . They want the whole region from the shores of Vietnam to the Japanese islands to be in their military sphere of influence. You may think that's irrelevant . I call it a matter of sovereignty .
No aggression ? What a joke !
India protests over China border incursion - FT.com (http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/eb021c64-abfc-11e2-a063-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2RNR11DDu)
China plans next generation of carriers as sea disputes broaden - Livemint (http://www.livemint.com/Politics/zKT1dmHiLwebsY40TvPGOL/China-plans-next-generation-of-carriers-as-sea-disputes-broa.html)
Philippines: China Has An Invasion Plan That Is Working (http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/phillip/articles/20130424.aspx)
Chinese vessels drive out Japanese boats from disputed islands - The Economic Times (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/chinese-vessels-drive-out-japanese-boats-from-disputed-islands/articleshow/19698563.cms)

Everywhere I look in the region I see Chinese aggression.

lol , uninhabited islands is an irrelevent classification Yes there are mineral rights ,that's one issue .The greater one is the Chinese plan to control the inner and outer island chains as a defense perimeter . They want the whole region from the shores of Vietnam to the Japanese islands to be in their military sphere of influence. You may think that's irrelevent . I call it a matter of sovereignty .
No aggression ? What a joke !
India protests over China border incursion - FT.com (http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/eb021c64-abfc-11e2-a063-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2RNR11DDu)
China plans next generation of carriers as sea disputes broaden - Livemint (http://www.livemint.com/Politics/zKT1dmHiLwebsY40TvPGOL/China-plans-next-generation-of-carriers-as-sea-disputes-broa.html)
Philippines: China Has An Invasion Plan That Is Working (http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/phillip/articles/20130424.aspx)
Chinese vessels drive out Japanese boats from disputed islands - The Economic Times (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/chinese-vessels-drive-out-japanese-boats-from-disputed-islands/articleshow/19698563.cms)

Everywhere I look in the region I see Chinese aggression.

And the interesting thing is your don't see your own
China blasts US for Asia-Pacific military build-up | World news | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/16/china-blasts-us-asia-pacific)

Yeah nice spin. But do you really think Emperor 0 would be shifting assets East if he did not see the threat the Chinese pose on our allies there ? Please ! If he had his druthers ,he'd dismantle most if the US military . But reality hit him right between the eyes .

yeah nice spin. But do you really think Emperor 0 would be shifting assets East if he did not see the threat the Chinese pose on our allies there ? Please ! If he had his druthers ,he'd dismantle most if the US military . But reality hit him right between the eyes .

I think most of these threats you see are political rhetoric for internal consumption

Let's have a look at NK from a different perspective, for example
What if we're wrong about North Korea? Australian Professor Stewart Lone argues | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/world-news/what-if-were-wrong-about-north-korea/story-fndir2ev-1226631780873)

Not necessarily as you or I might have seen it?

How bad are human rights in North Korea?
Millions of people in North Korea suffer extreme forms of repression and human rights violations that violate nearly the entire spectrum of their human rights. In January 2013, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Navi Pillay, said that North Korea had “one of the worst –but least understood and reported - human rights situations in the world”.

Hundreds of thousands of people—including children—are arbitrarily held in political prison camps and other detention facilities where they are subjected to human rights violations like forced labour, denial of food as punishment, torture and public executions.

Many of those held in political prison camps are simply the family members of those deemed unfriendly to the regime, arbitrarily detained as a form of collective punishment.

Hundreds, possibly thousands, of victims of enforced disappearances and abductions by North Korea Include nationals of South Korea, Japan, Lebanon and Thailand.Are human rights improving under the new leadership of Kim Jong-Un?
No.

Unverified reports received by Amnesty International claim that the North Korean government has purged possibly hundreds of officials deemed to be a threat to Kim Jong-un's succession, by having them executed or sent to political prison camps..

In 2011, as North Korea prepared for its leadership succession, prison camps appeared to be growing in size according to satellite imagery obtained by Amnesty International.

In March, analysis of new satellite images by Amnesty International showed that North Korean government is blurring the lines between a political prison camp (kwanliso 14) and the surrounding population, raising fears of widescale increases in restrictions and controls of people living near prison camps.

In October 2012, there were reports that one political prison camp (kwanliso 22 in Hoeryong, North Hamkyung Province) was reportedly closed after Kim Jong-Un came to power, but what has happened to its 20-50,000 inmates is a mystery.

Are North Koreans still starving?
Despite small increases in household food consumption reportedly due to recent improved harvests, food insecurity and chronic malnutrition remain widespread, and millions remain dependent on food aid.

Reports continue of people dying of starvation. Nearly a million North Koreans have starved to death since the 1990s.
The country's famines and food crises have been largely invisible because of political controls, including restrictions on the movement of both North Koreans and staff of international humanitarian agencies, and the near-total suppression of freedom of expression, information and association.

Amnesty International has reported on the devastating human rights impact of North Korea's food and health crisis.

How do people escape North Korea?
Despite tight restrictions on movement and dire consequences for breaching these, tens of thousands of North Koreans take on the grave risks to cross the border without permission into China every year, most in search of food. China considers all undocumented North Koreans to be economic migrants and if caught, forcibly returns them to North Korea where they risk incarceration in the political prison camp system where conditions remain horrific. Inmates face torture and ill-treatment, and denial of food as punishment.

What do North Koreans in the country think about their situation?
We do not know, as there is no independent domestic media, no known independent opposition political parties, no independent civil society, and criticism of the government is punished by incarceration in a political prison camp or detention facility.

Are North Koreans on Twitter?
Only a select few people in the country have internet access, mostly through a closely monitored intranet network. Use of mobile phones is heavily restricted.

What is the international community doing about North Korea's human rights crisis?
The UN Human Rights Council decided in March 2013 to establish a year long Commission of Inquiry to investigate a range of “systematic, widespread and grave” human rights violations including crimes against humanity. In North Korea. Amnesty International welcomed the wide mandate given to the Commission.

The move to establish the Commission has come after years of UN resolutions and condemnations targeting North Korea's human rights record.

The North Korean authorities refuse to recognize or grant access to international human rights monitors, including the UN Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in North Korea and international human rights organizations like Amnesty International.

What is Amnesty International's position on the use of nuclear weapons?
Amnesty International opposes the use, possession, production and transfer of nuclear weapons, given their indiscriminate nature. Amnesty International also stresses that the use of chemical and biological weapons in armed conflicts is prohibited by international law (Biological Weapon Convention 1972, Chemical Weapons Convention 1992).
Q&A: North Korea (http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/qa-north-korea-s-human-rights-crisis-2013-04-08)

Yes Tom we know all that but it is interesting to get a different perspective

I see Kim Jung un will not be ignored shootting rockets into the sea of Japan perhaps it's a new form of whaling?

It seems the NK have an endless supply of short range rockets and they want everyone to know it. It's sad when you get ignored even though you are doing your best to be noticed from the naughty corner. I wonder what the fish think of all this?

If they are testing short range missiles ,that means there is probably some upgrade the Iranians are looking to transfer to Hezbollah .

Yes could be or it just could be they are trying to intimidate South Korea, perhaps they just want to be sure the design works they might have got an update from Iran, I guess that ols axis of evil thing still works