My wife and I have been married for seven years. We have two kids together and she has one from a former marriage. Her daughter and I have a wonderful dad/daughter relationship.

A few years ago we started playing volleyball once a week for fun. We would go and play and when it was over at 10 pm we went home to the kids so the babysitter could go home.

Then about a year ago while playing volleyball I hurt my shoulder and can no longer play. She is still going to volleyball night while I stay home with the kids. Now instead of coming home afterward she goes to the bar and maybe stays out till 3 am without letting me know of these plans. She also has become very secretive and distant. Completely opposite of the girl I married. It's hard to carry on a conversation with her as she will turn her attention to a word game or text someone on her smart phone. When I ask her to please put down her phone she tells me I am being "needy". I feel like I need to paste a pic of her face on the back of her phone so I can get to see her pretty face again. She also allows me no access to her phone.

Asking her to come home after volleyball is not up for discussion for her. She says we need to have separate interests and friends, and we do. I love to go hunting and I would never ask her to quit playing volleyball. However, I never go hunting without asking for her permission first. I never stay out past midnight without her, unless it is planned and She OKs it. I rarely go to the bar. When we go out I would say about half our time together is spent with her playing on her phone.

Lately she has suggested separation and divorce, because of my wanting to know what she is up to. Her daughter is 11 and is full of questions about life in general. She usually comes to me to talk about her feeling and emotions. This irritates my wife. However, I do not think it would be right of me not to listen to my step-daughter and help her out in any way I can. I hate putting that "step" in front of daughter. I have always viewed her as my own. I still view my wife as my best friend. I do not in any way want to separate. I have no legal rights to her daughter, so I would be losing her too.

The tension has become very depressing to me and is affecting my work. I want the girl that I married back. What can I do to keep my marriage together?

Since we aren't there and can only go by what you say, somewhere in the middle of this story you said that she wants a divorce because of you wanting to know what she is up to.
ERGO
The most logical (I know, we are rarely logical, any of us) solution is to stop trying to find out what she is up to! No asking what's on her phone, who she's talking to, what happens after volleyball, or anything. And a subset of that is to stop telling her what you are doing, and asking permission, and getting home before you turn into a pumpkin.
You married a woman who likes a lot of independence. If you love her and your 3 children enough, you give in, and I don't think this is so tough to put into effect.
You do say you work. You don't say if she does, but you have 3 kids under 11, so I suspect she's a housewife mom, a very tough and stifling job for a woman who wishes she had more.
Your title says she stays out all night. Then you say 3 am. There's a difference. Which is it?
Also there rarely is an answer to 'is it OK.' There is no rule book for marriage, with demerits.

Of course it might be too late, but I would write it down as a declaration and present it to her, with a promise that you will devote every second of your time to making sure you don't pester her. I'd leave her daughter out of the discussion for now, unless she brings it up. If she does, ask her to talk to her daughter, because it's better handled that way.

It's possible that under that part is a feeling that she isn't loved and needed, not just by her daughter but also by you. Wanting her time isn't all that love is about. Do you appreciate her? Do you show it, with a sparkle in your eye and a big smooch while she's doing some stupid housework, and tell her what's wonderful about her? It's possible that there is a lot more to this than staying out late.

- and perhaps looking at the wife as a woman instead of a girl, indicating a child unable to make her own decisions, might make a difference.

I'm an investigator. Any drastic change in behavior can signal something is going on.

Have you asked her?

Since we aren't there and can only go by what you say, somewhere in the middle of this story you said that she wants a divorce because of you wanting to know what she is up to.
ERGO
The most logical (I know, we are rarely logical, any of us) solution is to stop trying to find out what she is up to! No asking what's on her phone, who she's talking to, what happens after volleyball, or anything. And a subset of that is to stop telling her what you are doing, and asking permission, and getting home before you turn into a pumpkin.
You married a woman who likes a lot of independence. If you love her and your 3 children enough, you give in, and I don't think this is so tough to put into effect.
You do say you work. You don't say if she does, but you have 3 kids under 11, so I suspect she's a housewife mom, a very tough and stifling job for a woman who wishes she had more.
Your title says she stays out all night. Then you say 3 am. There's a difference. Which is it?
Also there rarely is an answer to 'is it OK.' There is no rule book for marriage, with demerits.

Of course it might be too late, but I would write it down as a declaration and present it to her, with a promise that you will devote every second of your time to making sure you don't pester her. I'd leave her daughter out of the discussion for now, unless she brings it up. If she does, ask her to talk to her daughter, because it's better handled that way.

It's possible that under that part is a feeling that she isn't loved and needed, not just by her daughter but also by you. Wanting her time isn't all that love is about. Do you appreciate her? Do you show it, with a sparkle in your eye and a big smooch while she's doing some stupid housework, and tell her what's wonderful about her? It's possible that there is a lot more to this than staying out late.

3am may not be all night, but that only leaves 2 1/2 or 3 hours till the rooster crows. Her coming home at this time also interrupts my sleep. Which wasn't great to start with as I have been up worrying about her. We live in the country so its not like she can walk or take a taxi home from the bar. She doesn't come home drunk, but defiantly had a few. She has a time or two taken time off work to stay out. She is also not much of a housewife. I do better than half the cooking, 90% of the cleaning, 60% of the laundry, and all the yard work. She does do most of the grocery shopping. She is a nurse and works three twelve hour shifts a week. She worked this last weekend and came home mad at me because I didn't get enough laundry done while she was at work. I just ran out of time with getting kids to and from activities. I did fix her snowmobile while she was at work, but she didn't seem to care. She asks what my plans are for each day, and I tell her. That's sometimes tough as I own a HVAC business and I'm not always sure where I will be going till the phone rings. Yet she gets defensive when I ask about her day. If it works out for me to take a lunch I will give her a call, but she almost always already has lunch plans with her friends. Conversation with her has gotten to be tough as she usually turns her attention to her phone about halfway through. I would love to give her a big smooch now and then, but how can I with that phone in front of her face? She agrees we need to spend more time together, but doesn't seem to want to do anything about it.

Time for counseling... or time to move on. I have to tell you... my first wife did much of what you're talking about here behavior wise. Turns out she was cheating on me. I assume you have considered that this is a possibility.

Time for counseling...or time to move on. I have to tell you....my first wife did much of what you're talking about here behavior wise. Turns out she was cheating on me. I assume you have considered that this is a possibility.

She asked me to go to counseling. Of which I had already been talking to our pastor about this. Now she is mad at me for talking about us behind her back.

Staying out until 3 am on a regular basis is a bit bit much. I would be wondering what she is doing too especially with the other things going on... all the texting and wanting a divorce. She may be cheating.
You both need to go to counseling if this marriage is to be saved.

I was aggressive about you having to change because you want to save the marriage!
But you seem to fight off suggestions and continue to tell anecdotes.

It's key that she wanted counseling. WHEN? You said she wants a divorce. Which is it? Is counseling not an option any more?
Please, again, we aren't there. Try to write to complete strangers. Which is what we are.

I was just trying to fill in the blanks you had made it apparent I had left. She is back and fourth on counseling and divorce. I was seeing our pastor before she told me I had to go to counseling. She was pissed at me for talking to him without her consent. I have made an appointment with a regular counselor now, but the soonest I could get in isn't for another three weeks. That's why I'm here. Trying to get some help in the meantime. I'm new to this asking for help online. I will answer any question you think is going to help you give me good advice. It doesn't seem right to me to withhold information from her just because she does it to me. Is that what you are telling me to do? She doesn't have a consistent work schedule which kind of forces me to OK my plans with her in case I have to watch the kids. Unfortunately I think this allows her to use me as her personal babysitter.

Her personal babysitter. They are your kids too. You don't babysitter your own kids. You're there.

Her personal babysitter. They are your kids too. You don't babysitter your own kids. You're there.
Agreed. That was not the right way to put that. It is just that everything revolves around her schedule. If I want to do something I have to OK it with her first. On the days she works I have to get the kids ready and to school. Then scramble to get my work done in time to pick them up from school. The two younger ones are 4 and 6. Not always the most cooperative to get moving in the morning. On her days off I'm not really allowed to start my day until the kids are ready for school, because if they are not ready in time she is pissed at me for not helping out. If I want to go hunting or fishing that gets voted down because its girls night out or something. Its fun but frustrating to take them with as the younger ones are still at that one on one stage with fishing, so its not very relaxing to do so. She like to fish too and is always invited, but she lets her friends trump over spending time with me. Tonight after getting the kids in bed I wanted to talk to her. Find out what she thought I needed to do to make things better between us. She was way to tired to talk to me, but tomorrow night is volleyball night and she won't have any trouble staying awake to close down the bar afterwards. I just feel like everyone else is higher on her list than me. I think to save this we need to spend some good quality time together, but she seems unwilling to do so.

You do need couples counseling but if she is unwilling to do that and unwilling to even talk, you need to make some decisions. One thing you might need to do is stop asking her if you "can" do something. Tell her you are going in a fishing trip on "this date" and leave it at that. It is not just up to you to make things better, there are things she needs to do as well. Stop taking all the responsibility for this mess.

If she will not go with you to a counselor, or a marriage counselor, or someone to talk with about these problems, she wants it to be over. This is not normal. Please consider leaving. I do wish you the best, and good luck.

If she will not go with you to a counselor, or a marriage counselor, or someone to talk with about these problems, she wants it to be over. This is not normal. Please consider leaving. I do wish you the best, and good luck.

If I leave I also leave my oldest daughter as I have no legal rights to her. We have a wonderful father/daughter relationship. Letting her go would mess us both up. I have talked to her a little bit about the problems her mom and I are having. Just enough to make her aware that mom and dad are not getting along very good right now and that I am trying to work it out. I also reassure her that she can come and talk to me if she needs to. I have not told her about her mother wanting a divorce. I don't know just how much to let her know. She obviously does not need to know everything. She will defiantly be needing counseling. It just breaks my heart to put her through this. The two younger kids don't really have a clue what's going on. Them I will at least get to see on a regular basis if all this goes down.

You still are telling anecdotes. They are complaints mostly. None of it gibes with your 'lovemywife' ID nor your first paragraph about not wanting to break up. So I don't get it. Unless you still think you can go to counseling in 3 weeks and tell all your complaints and the counselor will side with you and tell her to straighten up and fly right. Guess what? It doesn't work that way. First of all, they don't take sides. They merely teach you how to communicate with each other. Second, she is ready to leave you. I think you are grasping at the wrong straws as your ship sinks.

I made my suggestions at the very beginning and stand by them. You (and others here) apparently don't think they are fair, which they aren't. But if you can't get her to agree that she isn't being a good wife and mother, she is going to LEAVE. And I doubt that she is going to agree! DO YOU?

I think confiding anything to your stepdaughter is a very, very bad idea. This goes to Court and the Court gets wind of that and you'll be lucky to ever even see the child again.

If you need to vent or consult you need to speak to an adult, not a child. And you are right - much more of this and she will definitely need counselling.

I, quite frankly, question your motive.

You don't need to be discussing your and your wife's relationship with her daughter. That is out of line. Your conversations need to be with your wife, not her daughter and you can always ask your wife if you can see this other daughter along with the other kids.

So, are you telling me to pretty much just stay out of her life until she walks in the door?
I shouldn't want to know anything that goes on in her life outside of our home?
If she chooses to spend more time with other people than me I am supposed to be OK with that?
Should I not be worried about how she is getting home from the bar in the wee hours of the morning?
Should I treat our relationship more like we are just roommates?
That doesn't feel much like a marriage to me. I got married because I wanted to have a family to come home to. I wanted a companion to spend time with. I wanted someone to talk to about nothing at all. It used to be this way. I don't talk to people in a non-logistical manor very easily, but when we were dating I found it easy to open up to her. We used to talk half the night away about each other or even nothing at all. We could go out for supper and ignore a cell phone if it rang. We didn't let anyone or anything interrupt our time together. We each wanted to spend time with each other. If I do what I think you are telling me it seems to me that I will be giving up the reasons I married her in the first place. That is why I'm reluctant to grasp your advice.


I think confiding anything to your stepdaughter is a very, very bad idea. This goes to Court and the Court gets wind of that and you'll be lucky to ever even see the child again.

If you need to vent or consult you need to speak to an adult, not a child. And you are right - much more of this and she will definitely need counselling.

I, quite frankly, question your motive.

I do not vent to her. I am just making sure she knows that she is loved even if there is tension between her mom and I. I try to come up with answers to her questions without pointing blame on anyone. Some of the answers are tough to come by, but I try. Isn't better that she knows to a certain extent what is going on instead of just guessing at it? Isn't it important that she know that I will listen to her and answer question she may have? This is also far from a daily discussion between us. Maybe once every three weeks at best. If we do divorce is it better for her to be blindsided by it? I don't know. That is why I am asking so I have an answer if she asks.
There is whole lot of other things an eleven year old can come up to talk about, so when I don't have a good non hurtful answer I change the subject.

You are talking about your hopes and dreams, what was, not what is.

You need to look at what is.

You asked the question but have shrugged off "our" advice. If you want to continue this way, continue on the path you're on.

If you don't, follow "our" advice.

I do not vent to her. I am just making sure she knows that she is loved even if there is tension between her mom and I. I try to come up with answers to her questions without pointing blame on anyone. Some of the answers are tough to come by, but I try. Isn't better that she knows to a certain extent what is going on instead of just guessing at it? Isn't it important that she know that I will listen to her and answer question she may have? This is also far from a daily discussion between us. Maybe once every three weeks at best. If we do divorce is it better for her to be blindsided by it? I don't know. That is why I am asking so I have an answer if she asks.
There is whole lot of other things an eleven year old can come up to talk about, so when I don't have a good non hurtful answer I change the subject.
It is not your place to have that discussion with her.
Work on your marriage. That is a problem now. Leave the daughter put of it.
Tell your wife you two need to talk and do counseling. Set a time to talk and insist that she set aside that time to do so. If she does not care enough to do that then you need to consider ending your marriage as it seems to me she does not care. Then make arrangement for visitation with all of the children.

MAN! You aren't getting it. No, who would be OK with the way she acts? I and no one said it was OK.

You act like we are supposed to reach through the internet and rake her over the coals and get her to change her ways. She isn't even here.

You start not wanting to lose her, but then complain about how she acts unfairly and not like a wife and mother, and THEN whine about what you miss, the past that cannot ever come back. You can't have all 3. You accept her the way she is, OR get help together, OR go along with the divorce.

You are talking about your hopes and dreams, what was, not what is.

You need to look at what is.

You asked the question but have shrugged off "our" advice. If you want to continue this way, continue on the path you're on.

If you don't, follow "our" advice.

I am just trying to understand your advice. It just seems to go against what I have read elsewhere. My understanding of your advice is to do to her what she does to me?
Here about a month ago I had a board meeting to go to at night. She went bowling with some friends. My meeting got over about 9:30, so I thought I would stop by the bowling alley to see what was going on. Shortly after I arrived she told me I need to leave and go home. To which I asked why? She replied that she had told the babysitter that I would be home by 10 to relieve her. I didn't argue with her. I left feeling rather confused and hurt. My wife didn't come home till 3am that morning again. When I asked her about it the next morning she just simply said that someone had to relieve the babysitter.
How would you suggest I should have played that one?

Would you point out where I said to do to her what she's doing to you?

You can't seem to stay on track or understand what is being said to you. I don't understand your confusion.

What would I do? I would stop remembering when and do something - now. I'd also stop confiding in HER daughter, but that's me.

Or I'd hire a private investigator to see just what she's doing until 3AM, although I get the feeling if you have her on tape, committing adultery, you won't believe your own eyes or will argue with me about what you just saw.

Would you point out where I said to do to her what she's doing to you?

You can't seem to stay on track or understand what is being said to you. I don't understand your confusion.

What would I do? I would stop remembering when and do something - now. I'd also stop confiding in HER daughter, but that's me.

Or I'd hire a private investigator to see just what she's doing until 3AM, although I get the feeling if you have her on tape, committing adultery, you won't believe your own eyes or will argue with me about what you just saw.


[And a subset of that is to stop telling her what you are doing, and asking permission, and getting home before you turn into a pumpkin.]

This appears to me like you are telling me to hide stuff from her. What I find really confusing is she gets mad at me when I don't ask about her day, but when I do she gets irritated because I'm invading her territory or something. I also don't think I am confiding in her daughter. I am just trying to answer her questions when she comes asking what is going on. If I shut her out on those questions is she going to be able to come to me when she needs help with other things?

I never posted this: "[And a subset of that is to stop telling her what you are doing, and asking permission, and getting home before you turn into a pumpkin.]"

What?

I never, ever condone cheating or secrets in a marriage but I do understand your wife's frustration. You ask for advice and opinions here, and probably at home, and pay no attention to the answers. Do you listen to her when she talks to you or do you tune her out, too?

You asked about discussing matters with your stepdaughter. I answered. You may not like it and apparently you have chosen to defend yourself. That's fine.

Apparently doing things your way is working out for you just fine - not!

No one is telling you to hide stuff, we are saying stop asking her permission. If there is someplace you need or want to go, tell her you're going and be done with it.
Personally I think the woman is cheating and could care less what you think or what you do as long as you are there to cover for her when she is gone. But guess what, you have let her do this because you have not put your foot down and said we need to talk or I'm walking.

My meeting got over about 9:30, so I thought I would stop by the bowling alley to see what was going on.
Was that REALLY why you stopped by? Or what does "going on" mean?

Shortly after I arrived she told me I need to leave and go home. To which I asked why? She replied that she had told the babysitter that I would be home by 10 to relieve her. I didn't argue with her. I left feeling rather confused and hurt.
Didn't this get discussed before the sitter was called -- who is going where for how long and who comes home for the sitter to relieve her and pay her?

My wife didn't come home till 3am that morning again. When I asked her about it the next morning she just simply said that someone had to relieve the babysitter.
Why did you ask her about it? You expected an honest answer?

Communication is a real problem in this relationship. You seem to be on the outside looking in.

Your question was:
"is it Ok for a spouse to stay out all night on a weekly basis"

Unless she is working, looking after her sick mother or something else worthwhile that you can confirm- No.
Hire an investigator as mentioned, get the photos and find out for certain and protect your interest.

I think you know what you need to do but don't want to face it. Your wife is disrespecting you and your marriage and you are just letting her.

Was that REALLY why you stopped by? or what does "going on" mean?

Didn't this get discussed before the sitter was called -- who is going where for how long and who comes home for the sitter to relieve her and pay her?

Why did you ask her about it? You expected an honest answer?

Communication is a real problem in this relationship. You seem to be on the outside looking in.

I just really wanted to see my wife and spend some time with her. I could have went to the bar with some of the other board members as they were going to have a little send off for the retiring members. Instead I thought my wife is in town, why not spend the time with her. That's it.
No, unfortunately we did not discuss the babysitter thing. She had lined the sitter. I'm not sure where she came up with the 10pm deadline as I don't remember telling her I would be done by then.
Why wouldn't I ask her about it the next morning and expect an honest answer. She is my wife.

I never posted this: "[And a subset of that is to stop telling her what you are doing, and asking permission, and getting home before you turn into a pumpkin.]"

What?

I never, ever condone cheating or secrets in a marriage but I do understand your wife's frustration. You ask for advice and opinions here, and probably at home, and pay no attention to the answers. Do you listen to her when she talks to you or do you tune her out, too?

You asked about discussing matters with your stepdaughter. I answered. You may not like it and apparently you have chosen to defend yourself. That's fine.

Apparently doing things your way is working out for you just fine - not!

Sorry, I got the posts mixed up. Hell I'm mixed up over this deal


MAN! You aren't getting it. No, who would be OK with the way she acts? I and no one said it was OK.

You act like we are supposed to reach through the internet and rake her over the coals and get her to change her ways. She isn't even here.

You start out not wanting to lose her, but then complain about how she acts unfairly and not like a wife and mother, and THEN whine about what you miss, the past that cannot ever come back. You can't have all 3. You accept her the way she is, OR get help together, OR go along with the divorce.

OK. After getting away from the computer, and getting a chance to think about all this I think you are starting to get through to this thick stubborn German head of mine. Although I usually say that anyone who thinks Germans are stubborn has never met a Norwegian. I came back here and was going to post what I was thinking and there in your last sentence was pretty much what I was thinking.
Now what do I do?
I don't really see either of us happy with divorce. Even long term I don't see time lessening the pain.
I'm not happy with the way things are right now. I feel disrespected by her. She hold me accountable for all the problems we are having. I'm not trying to deny any accountability. I don't think she is real happy right now either.
That leaves help through counseling. Which I'm all for. Like I said before I was seeing our pastor before she told my I had to go to counseling. He was willing to work with both of us, but as I said she was pissed at me for talking to him in the first place.
Now how do we find some common ground until we can get into a counselor? She did not want to go together. One of her comments that troubles me is she told me that the only reason she is going to see one is to get an OK to file for divorce.

I don't really see either of us happy with divorce.
Why do you say this? You have never indicated that she has mixed feelings about the marriage, but definitely wants a divorce.

I don't think she is real happy right now either.
What makes you think that?

Now how do we find some common ground until we can get into a counselor? She did not want to go together.
You don't search for common ground. You (or she) make an appointment for a marriage counselor as soon as possible, and even sooner, like this week. The counseling has to be with both of you in attendance. Will she go?

Why do you say this? You have never indicated that she has mixed feelings about the marriage, but definitely wants a divorce.

What makes you think that?

You don't search for common ground. You (or she) make an appointment for a marriage counselor as soon as possible, and even sooner, like this week. The counseling has to be with both of you in attendance. Will she go?

She has not kicked me out yet nor has she left. We still sleep in the same bed. I haven't woke up to find her pointing her 38 at me yet. But yet she is the one who suggested divorce. I guess I'm confused too.
She said she wanted to make an appointment for herself with a separate counselor. I have already made an appointment, but the soonest I could get in is three weeks away. She has reluctantly agreed to meet with our pastor, but I'm not sure it's worth the time when she was pissed at me for talking to him in the first place.

I had another person say to me that it sounds like she has gotten the "Seven Year Itch". Kind of sounds like the shoe fits. Now how do I go about resolving this?

She has not kicked me out yet nor has she left.
Why would she? You are good to have around to do stuff that she can't do because she is at work or otherwise out of the house.

We still sleep in the same bed.
You still have an intimate sexual life together?

She said she wanted to make an appointment for herself with a separate counselor.
To what end?

You go together to a counselor, to work on the marriage or come to an agreement about the divorce.

"Seven-Year Itch" was the name of a romantic movie (and probably the title of a book). That's not what is happening here.

Rather than reading the words written on this thread, I am going to "read between the lines," having been in a similar situation.

To the OP, I see that you are a very caring husband and father/step-father.

I don't see a problem having a discussion with the 11 year old if she is asking what is going on, but you shouldn't bring it up either. Talking to her at her appropriate age level is okay. It seems she feels more comfortable talking to you than she does her own mother. She needs, and deserves, comfort when things are disruptive. She needs stability, which it seems that she is not getting from her own mother.

It's very clear to those of us who are not engulfed in this situation that your wife is having an affair.

I'm not one for ultimatums, in fact I despise them. But, it appears that this is what you need as she is using you for her own benefit. It's counseling or divorce. She has 3 days to give you an answer. If she doesn't give you an answer in 3 days, file for divorce. It appears you are the only anchor in the lives of the child(ren), so make sure that you file for custody as well.

Why would she? You are good to have around to do stuff that she can't do because she is at work or otherwise out of the house.

You still have an intimate sexual life together?

To what end?

You go together to a counselor, to work on the marriage or come to an agreement about the divorce.

"Seven-Year Itch" was the name of a romantic movie (and probably the title of a book). That's not what is happening here.

It is hard to keep up with all I do. Even a little frustrating when I busting my butt around here and I find her just playing word with friends.
We have had sex. Been a few weeks though. I would hardly call it intimate.
What do you mean "To what end"?


Rather than reading the words written on this thread, I am going to "read between the lines," having been in a similar situation.

To the OP, I see that you are a very caring husband and father/step-father.

I don't see a problem having a discussion with the 11 year old if she is asking what is going on, but you shouldn't bring it up either. Talking to her at her appropriate age level is okay. It seems she feels more comfortable talking to you than she does her own mother. She needs, and deserves, comfort when things are disruptive. She needs stability, which it seems that she is not getting from her own mother.

It's very clear to those of us who are not engulfed in this situation that your wife is having an affair.

I'm not one for ultimatums, in fact I despise them. But, it appears that this is what you need as she is using you for her own benefit. It's counseling or divorce. She has 3 days to give you an answer. If she doesn't give you an answer in 3 days, file for divorce. It appears you are the only anchor in the lives of the child(ren), so make sure that you file for custody as well.

I don't really go for ultimatums either. She gave me one to see a counselor or she was going to leave. I found out last night that she however has not made her own appointment like she said she was going to. All the counselors in the area are booked up. Would it be worth making her go see our pastor with me? He was willing to work with both of us. This may be little beyond his expertise, but it's a start. As I said before she was pissed at me for talking with him in the first place.

Given the frustration I'm feeling with this thread, I can fully understand why your wife wants to see someone alone. I don't think I have ever encountered someone who goes in a circle more times than you, at least not someone as articulate and obviously intelligent as you. My advice is go to your pastor or a therapist alone, and let her go alone, and also try to keep the couple counseling appointment that's 3 weeks from now! Personally I think you need a very, very experienced therapist, because you will talk circles around him or her just as you do with yourself.

I'll say it as many different ways as I can: you seem to think that because her behavior is 'wrong,' that you have some 'right' to expect/demand that she change. AIN'T Going to HAPPEN because she doesn't care.

EDIT: MAKE her go see your pastor?? With what, a cattle prod? What is the matter with you?

What would be a reasonable compromise in your opinion lovemywife?
Something like- she can stay out until 3 AM just every other week instead of every week. Or two nights until just 2 AM instead of one until 3 AM?
You don't worry about your wife's safety even, being out at those hours? You can't see the forest for the trees.

What would be a reasonable compromise in your opinion lovemywife?
Something like- she can stay out til 3 AM just every other week instead of every week. Or two nights til just 2 AM instead of one til 3 AM?
You don't worry about your wife's safety even, being out at those hours? You can't see the forest for the trees.
Yes I do worry about her safety. I have told her that. To which she argues that she is a big girl and can take care of herself. I think I said in an earlier post that we live 15 miles from town so its not like she can just walk or catch a taxi home from the bar. She is small in size so even a couple of drinks probably puts her on the edge of legal BAC. We have crappy winter roads here too just adding to my worry. She just blows off my concerns.

I always bring this up because of my personal experiences (best friend, employees, and a son) but it always has to be considered. Does she have an alcohol and/or drug problem? If God forbid she has an accident with overlimit BAC, most likely your name will be on the lawsuits too. When you add up all the concerns and risks (you already know what they are and throw disease in the mix too), your best course of action should be clear to you. But get the evidence first and protect your interest.

I always bring this up because of my personal experiences (best friend, employees, and a son) but it always has to be considered. Does she have an alcohol and/or drug problem? If God forbid she has an accident with overlimit BAC, most likely your name will be on the lawsuits too. When you add up all the concerns and risks (you already know what they are and throw disease in the mix too), your best course of action should be clear to you. But get the evidence first and protect your interest.
I don't think she has a alcohol prob. If I added up all the drinks she had in a year it might average out to about to a day. Do I need to just shut up? Is she staying out and hiding behind her phone to escape my concerns for her and us? Is she just feeling too tied down with life lately? My problem there is the more she unties herself the more tied up I become. I already can't keep up with the daily chores around the house.

Sorry-- you are a denier. And yes- two drinks per day can be a sign of alcoholism.

Sorry-- you are a denier. And yes- two drinks per day can be a sign of alcoholism.
Oh goody. Don't know if this has anything to do with it but her dad was a raging alcoholic.

I think your wife is cheating or just having a ball knowing you are there taking care of the kids. She is taking advantage of you.
Do some counseling for yourself so you can think with a clear head. Ask your wife to keep the appointment for counseling together, if she doesn't, I think you need to consider divorce. Make arrangement for visitation with all of the kids
She does not care and will not change.

Thank you, Homegirl, for summing it all up - out of greenies!

I think your wife is cheating or just having a ball knowing you are there taking care of the kids. She is taking advantage of you.
Do some counseling for yourself so you can think with a clear head. Ask your wife to keep the appointment for counseling together, if she doesn't, I think you need to consider divorce. Make arrangement for visitation with all of the kids
She does not care and will not change.
I'll admit a clear head isn't easy to come by with all that is going on. Thanks for your help

If you think it is good that she might be an alcoholic---
You need more than just a counselor, try a psychiatrist.

If you think it is good that she might be an alcoholic---
You need more than just a counselor, try a psychiatrist.

Not what I meant. That was a sarcastic "oh goody". The alcoholism thought just sends me for another spin.

Not what I meant. That was a sarcastic "oh goody". The alcoholism thought just sends me for another spin.
Can you summarize where you are mentally now? Has any of this affected/changed your understanding of your situation? And finally, what is your plan?

Get some counseling. It will help you deal with all of these and think with a clear head.
I wish you well.

This is just going around in circles. You don't have many options here so I don't know what else we can offer.

You accept it.
You get counseling.
You divorce.

That's about all I see here. Going on and on isn't going to change that. You need to decide what you are going to do and go with it.

Can you summarize where you are mentally now? Has any of this affected/changed your understanding of your situation? And finally, what is your plan?
I'm not real sure what to think about the situation right now. I'm not real good at putting my feelings into words, some of you may have figured that out by now. I will definitely go to counseling. I hope we can work this out.

Does anybody here think this can be resolved without divorce? It kind of seems like divorce is what everyone it telling me to do.

Honestly, no. It seems that she has made up her mind with whatever it is that she's doing. On the other hand, we don't know her so how can we say for sure? You've decided on counseling so try it and see what happens.

Honestly, no. It seems that she has made up her mind with whatever it is that she's doing. On the other hand, we don't know her so how can we say for sure? You've decided on counseling so try it and see what happens.

That's depressing, but thanks for your help

Hi guy, I can certainly appreciate the questions in your mind, and the confusion and frustration of your situation.

I think you start with relaxing for a minute and getting YOURSELF under control as your fear is very noticeable in your responses. I will keep it simple.

You have made her own behavior a cause for over thinking and reacting since basically it involves a schedule-expectations adjustment, and just me, when I went through something similar, simply backed off and let my wife have her full head of steam for what she wanted, and how she wanted it done. This is a time you cannot change or control her, NOR should you try, since if you stop being so scared of losing her, and stop trying to figure things out and fix things, I think you focus on you, what YOU do and what you have to do and let her fix herself. That's the way I have always dealt with my own wife of 37 years.

Where I drew the line was if the b1tchin' was aimed at me about what my wife thought I should be doing and how. "Don't like the way I do it.............do it your damn self!" So get the fear under control, because its one thing to worry till they get home, and quite another to project your own fear into the situation.

I am old school, and think a man should lead by example without the fear, and to an extent, you have done an excellent job, but now as she feels her oats, LET HER. Its only a conflict if you make it one, so lets not get in the weeds and the whole cheating thing and off on tangents that makes you get carried away by fear, and fail to adjust yourself, your attitude, and thoughts and actions. Don't let words be the buttons she can push to keep you off balance. Get out of self and the BS you allow yourself to sink to in a selfish, self serving, way to justify her being wrong, and you being right because it really doesn't matter.

All that really matters is you be a great parent for all your kids as there is plenty of time to have conflicts and get divorces and the rest of the crap that reality throws at you. Until it happens, don't get down about it. That only magnifies fear and tension (PANIC).

For whatever reasons the communications has broken down, accept she is NOT like you, nor will she deal with things as you do, and give her room with your actions to have the time for her own adjustments to surface. For now do nothing but stay off the pity pot, and pay attention, and lead your family down the path of Good Orderly Direction, and let her catch up.

Until you develop good communications again, let your actions speak for you, so be reasonable and responsible before you take actions. There was no need for her to know you talked to your pastor, and to be honest, a phone call before just popping in would have saved you a disappointment. And never ever say anything bad about mama to a child and only age appropriate things are allowed. Don't know how to answer a question from a child? Keep it simple and general and positive, and honest.

Bottom line, you are both young and learning as you go, and my advice right now is stop whining and crying and cope with controlling yourself because you never will control her, and to be frank, its stupid to try. If it ain't perfect, change YOURSELF. She works, you work, and any body can have a bad day, and need to unwind. You want a family to come home too, and a cocktail before dinner? Then make enough loot she can sit home and kiss your butt, after all day with 3 kids.

All it takes is patients and some cool, calm, self control. And the courage to do the right thing for your family. When she can't, make sure you can. LOL, my fishing and hunting trips were 3 days to a week, and the wife was on her own until came back. She doesn't clean fish, I don't do windows. It is what it is, deal with it.

Or don't.

Now what do YOU want to do, and don't mention her at all?

Hi guy, I can certainly appreciate the questions in your mind, and the confusion and frustration of your situation.

I think you start with relaxing for a minute and getting YOURSELF under control as your fear is very noticeable in your responses. I will keep it simple.

You have made her own behavior a cause for over thinking and reacting since basically it involves a schedule-expectations adjustment, and just me, when I went thru something similar, simply backed off and let my wife have her full head of steam for what she wanted, and how she wanted it done. This is a time you cannot change or control her, NOR should you try, since if you stop being so scared of losing her, and stop trying to figure things out and fix things, I think you focus on you, what YOU do and what you have to do and let her fix herself. Thats the way I have always dealt with my own wife of 37 years.

Where I drew the line was if the b1tchin' was aimed at me about what my wife thought I should be doing and how. "Don't like the way I do it.............do it your damn self!" So get the fear under control, because its one thing to worry till they get home, and quite another to project your own fear into the situation.

I am old school, and think a man should lead by example without the fear, and to an extent, you have done an excellent job, but now as she feels her oats, LET HER. Its only a conflict if you make it one, so lets not get in the weeds and the whole cheating thing and off on tangents that makes you get carried away by fear, and fail to adjust yourself, your attitude, and thoughts and actions. Don't let words be the buttons she can push to keep you off balance. Get out of self and the BS you allow yourself to sink to in a selfish, self serving, way to justify her being wrong, and you being right because it really doesn't matter.

All that really matters is you be a great parent for all your kids as their is plenty of time to have conflicts and get divorces and the rest of the crap that reality throws at you. Until it happens, don't get down about it. That only magnifies fear and tension (PANIC).

For whatever reasons the communications has broken down, accept she is NOT like you, nor will she deal with things as you do, and give her room with your actions to have the time for her own adjustments to surface. For now do nothing but stay off the pity pot, and pay attention, and lead your family down the path of Good Orderly Direction, and let her catch up.

Until you develop good communications again, let your actions speak for you, so be reasonable and responsible before you take actions. There was no need for her to know you talked to your pastor, and to be honest, a phone call before just popping in would have saved you a disappointment. And never ever say anything bad about mama to a child and only age appropriate things are allowed. Don't know how to answer a question from a child? Keep it simple and general and positive, and honest.

Bottom line, you are both young and learning as you go, and my advice right now is stop whining and crying and cope with controlling yourself because you never will control her, and to be frank, its stupid to try. If it ain't perfect, change YOURSELF. She works, you work, and any body can have a bad day, and need to unwind. You want a family to come home too, and a cocktail before dinner? Then make enough loot she can sit home and kiss your butt, after all day with 3 kids.

All it takes is patients and some cool, calm, self control. And the courage to do the right thing for your family. When she can't, make sure you can. LOL, my fishing and hunting trips were 3 days to a week, and the wife was on her own until came back. She doesn't clean fish, I don't do windows. It is what it is, deal with it.

Or don't.

Now what do YOU want to do, and don't mention her at all?

I think I'm going to copy your post down to reread every now and then. I am feeling a little calmer and collected today. Yesterday I think I just had a little too mush thrown at me to be able to sort it out. As for the windows, If I didn't clean them we would be living in one dark house. I'm pretty sure there isn't any way to change that

I think I'm going to copy your post down to reread every now and then. I am
feeling a little calmer and collected today. Yesterday I think I just had a little too mush thrown at me to be able to sort it out. As for the windows, If I didn't clean them we would be living in one dark house. I'm pretty sure there isn't any way to change that

I am going to go into counseling, and hope for the best. I will keep the advice of those who thinks she is cheating on me in the back corner of my mind just in case that is what is really going on here, but right now I just feel like I have to try with everything I've got. I know there are things I can do differently. Things I need to change. I'm sure this isn't going to be an easy road, but I'm going to try. I've never really been one for doing things the easy way anyhow. Thanks to all for your advise.

I wish you well.