My friend is a landlord who lives out of state. Can I represent him at the District Justice level for an eviction hearing ?

I already served notice upon the dwelling for him and would like to assist him further. I am a retired police officer and am familiar with testifying in court.

The other party has no lease and is just hanging on after her boyfriend abandoned the residence.

This is in PA.

Get a letter from your friend assigning you to represent him in the case. That should be sufficient.

No, unless Pennsylvania has some very unusual laws governing the practice of law, retired peace officers are not allowed to represent others in court. Now, if you know about the circumstances, you might make a good witness in the matter, but your friend will have to ask about possibly attending by telephone. That is commonly allowed by most courts.

Can't the owner appoint the OP as his agent for the property which would allow him to appear on his behalf? Housing courts generally do not require attorney representation (much like small claims).

I don't know of anything about being a retired police officer that would disqualify the OP from acting as the owner's agent.

I'm in NY and I would question whether it is appropriate for the supposedly disinterested person who served the papers to also "represent" the person landlord in Court.

Suddenly the server is not a disinterested party.

And the person doing the "representing" is not an Attorney.

Even if OP were to be appointed manager or something similar there's the question of legal service should that issue be raised.

I think it's a bad scenario.

Hello again,

I think you need to be a lawyer in order to represent people in court - ANY court.

excon

There is a PA law that allows non-lawyers with specific knowledge to represent another in District Court ( the same court for landlord complaints) for summary violations. I have done this several times for my employer.

In fact I am 7 for 7 in winning traffic citation cases. I just haven't ventured into the Civil side of things.

A person who does this must have written consent and cannot advertise and do so for compensation. I have only done this for citations issued to employees who were working when they got them or the cite was filed against the company.

There is a PA law that allows non-lawyers with specific knowledge to represent another in District Court ( the same court for landlord complaints) for summary violations.

Thanks for the confirmation. Can you cite the statute?

Thanks for the confirmation. Can you cite the statute?

246 PA Code 207. You can see the actual form at www.19301.org on the left side of the screen click on Misc. Forms. It will then be the top form.

I couldn't do this in downtown court during a trial but have done this very successfully in our Distict Courts where all summary, misdemeanor and felony criminal cases begin. Also civil cases under I think 12 k can be heard there.

I went to Philadelphia Traffic Court last year and got $850 worth of poorly written commercial trucking citations dismissed.

Sorry on the website. It is. District Court 19-3-01 Welcome Page (http://www.districtcourt19301.org)

Hello again, M:

Then go for it and kick some a$$.

excon

Thank you. Good luck and keep us posted.

246 PA Code 207. ...

Which title? The Pennsylvania Code (http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/Public/cons_index.cfm) is organized by title, chapter, and section.

Sorry on the website. It is. District Court 19-3-01 Welcome Page (http://www.districtcourt19301.org)

The site appears to be bugged. Every time I click on the forms link, IE crashes.

Pa Rules of Criminal Procedure. Chapter 200. Rule 207.

I have no problems opening the document link on the district court web page.

And the person who served is now the person who appears - ?

Why was this asked if you already knew?

And I also can't open the citation - busy internet, perhaps?

And the person who served is now the person who appears - ?

Why was this asked if you already knew?

And I also can't open the citation - busy internet, perhaps?



If the landlord can serve notice and than represent himself , why couldn't I ? There is no conflict of interest attained by taping a piece of paper to a door.

The PA Rules of Criminal Procedure are for criminal cases , not necessarily civil cases. THAT'S why I posed the question.

I am in my iPad and it opens perfectly for me.

What kind of notice? Let's start there.

And the LL doesn't serve notices in NY because if service is question he/she is going to lose due a possible reason to lie - and I see these thrown out on a regular basis.

And that's why I own and operate a process service company - in NY.

Obviously PA doesn't feel that having the landlord swear that the papers were properly served could be a reason for the landlord to lie...

A notice drawn up by the landlord IAW PA Landlord / tenenat law giving the person in question 30 days to vacate the premises as they have no lease , have paid no rent and have no legal standing to remain.

I posted it in a conspicious place ( the front door at eye level) and than took three pictures of the posted notice. Up close , father back and far enough back to get the house number. Pics are date and geo tagged and of course I will testify under oath as to their being posted. A LL here can send a certified letter , deliver the notice in person or post it in a conspicious place. Either way , the LL would have to testify under oath as to what they did.

Process servers are NOT required in PA. I can see where a lazy process server could lie if they were a little too busy to actually do their job. Sure , they are handy for a landlord who doesn't want to get his hands dirty but I have dealt with a LOT of people in my former career and don't have a problem doing this type of work.

I KNOW Law Enforcement can vary greatly from state to state. It looks like the LL / Tenant Laws do as well. While NY information is perhaps a curiousity , I am truly looking for PA specific info.

Every source OP has given us, with the exception of the main court web site, has failed to open.

In any event, whatever the criminal procedure rules say, they have no bearing on representation in civil court. My previous answer stands.

"A person who represents himself ..." something or other.

I had no problem following the initial link Clicking on the forms link and eventually getting to this form:
http://www.pacourts.us/assets/files/setting-901/file-770.pdf

The form clearly allows someone to appoint a representative to a District Court hearing. The District Court is charged with handling Landlord/Tenant issues according to the Home page.

"A person who represents himself ..." something or other.

I am not representing myself.

I have represented my company SEVEN times in District. Court for traffic tickets and won all seven. Seems like a pretty good record for someone who is not a lawyer and is taking advantage of what the law allows.

Hello again, M:

A company is NOT a person. It follows then, that a real live PERSON, such as yourself, would need to appear in court FOR the corporation...

Your friend, on the other hand, is a person, and in my view, which has NOT changed, a non lawyer CANNOT represent a PERSON in court.

excon

The word "represents" troubles me. And we're back to NY/PA - in NY any non-Attorney claiming to "represent" someone will very shortly hear from the Bar Association.

I have certainly represented myself in Court. I have testified for other people. (By the way, if we're tallying points I've never won an argument about improper service.) I have never represented anyone else.

Maybe that's the hang up here.

I am amazed that a non-Attorney can represent a party in Court. Appear on behalf of? Yes. Represent - maybe it's the language that I don't like.

This, however, is what I'm finding: "Magisterial District Court. These are sometimes referred to as small claims courts because they conduct non-jury trials concerning civil claims where the amount in controversy does not exceed $12,000. The risk of pro se representation before this court is significantly reduced because a party can appeal a decision de novo to the Court of Common Pleas. De novo basically means the parties on appeal can present additional evidence to the appellate court. Therefore, if you failed to have the proper witness testify or, if the District Judge would not allow a critical document to be considered based on a rule of evidence, you get a fresh start on appeal and you can even hire a lawyer for representation on appeal. In Magisterial District Court proceedings, corporations and similar entities, along with partnerships and sole proprietorships, are permitted to represent themselves. Whether the benefits outweigh the risk depends on the circumstances." http://www.reageradlerpc.com/articles-resources/article/10-12-30/Do_I_Really_Need_an_Attorney.aspx

I have asked this Attorney for a clarification and hope I get one - what does "... represent themselves ..." mean in PA?

I have also asked about my particular interest, whether the landlord/friend can serve legal notice and then "represent" himself - ?

Hello again,


I have also asked about my particular interest, whether the landlord/friend can serve legal notice and then "represent" himself - ?This, of course, is an entirely separate argument... I don't know the legal thinking behind it, but the person making service must be "At arms length" from the interested party... In my view, EVEN if you're allowed to represent your friend pursuant to the statutes you're referring to, you'll be DISQUALIFIED from doing so because you made service.

I hope you attempt it, and I HOPE it works. I'm on YOUR side, after all.. I really hope you report back and let us know how it worked out.

Excon

Likewise I'm interested in the result. The "arms length" discussion is a good one.

The word "represents" troubles me. And we're back to NY/PA - in NY any non-Attorney claiming to "represent" someone will very shortly hear from the Bar Association.




I guess I have a broader interpretation of that word. To me it simply means to appear in the person's place not to be a legal advisor. Maybe the word agent is a better description.

I agree - it's "represent" that spooks me. Of course, it may or may not legally mean the same thing.

I'm interested in how this plays out.

I had no problem following the initial link Clicking on the forms link and eventually getting to this form:
http://www.pacourts.us/assets/files/...1/file-770.pdf

The form clearly allows someone to appoint a representative to a District Court hearing. The District Court is charged with handling Landlord/Tenant issues according to the Home page.


It might be the other computer I was on. I can open the form from this one.

It refers to the Criminal Rules. I cannot find a link to them, and am interested in how that would work. If someone can find and post the text of the particular rule, perhaps the answer will be clear.

But it is tangental. LL/Tenant issues would not be governed by the criminal rules anyway, so this form would not apply.

The form I linked says nothing about Criminal rules. It refers to the Magisterial District Court and to the referenced action.

The form in question clearly allows an individual to represent another individual or and individual to represent a company / corporation.

I have done both. For an employee who was cited ( and was present at the trial) and for the company who was not otherwise represented at the trial.

I emailed the district court but did not hear back from them. I will just call them tomorrow. The judge is actually a former police officer that I used to work with. And before the naysayers come out of the woodwork , he was duly elected and serves in the same area in which we both worked. There has never been any formal complaint filed over some sort of conflict of interest. Actually , over half of the District Judges in my county are former / retired police officers. A law degree is not required to be elected.

To be a judge in Common Pleas Court at the courthouse does require a law degree. District judges hold trials for Summary Offenses and preliminary hearings for any Misdemeanor and Felony cases. And they do civil cases up to 12k. The most jail time they can pose s 6 months. Fines vary by statute.

Every ruling they make can be appealed to Common Pleas Court.

The form I linked says nothing about Criminal rules. It refers to the Magisterial District Court and to the referenced action.


It reads "PURSUANT TO PA. R.C.P. M.D.J. NO. 207 (B)", does it not?

I can't find the text of that rule, but what do you suppose "R.C.P. ..." means? Rules of Criminal Procedure something, something, something.

Yes... RCP means Rules of Criminal Procedure. With the multitude of rules , I do not believe that there is any legal distinction between civil and criminal court. I hope to find out tomorrow.

Same as NY - MDJ is Magistrate District Judge.

I don't know why rules of criminal procedure would apply to civil court - ?

"Tomorrow" has come and gone. What was the answer?

How much longer do you suppose we'll have to wait to find out whether OP was right when he questioned the advice given to him?

The reply I got from the clerk who is assigned to the civil cases is as follows...

Since she was never on the lease , you can call the police and they can remove her as a trespasser. I do NOT believe that this is correct. While she was not on the lease she has resided there for about 4 months now and is even making utility payments.

According to what I know as a former officer and what I have read about LLT law... she has achieved status as a " resident " and needs to be formally evicted no different than a former tenant whose lease has expired and has refused to move out.

I have not heard back from the judge but I will probably see him Thursday night at an event and Willa bend his ear at that time.

Wasn't the question whether criminal and civil "rules" are the same?

The reply I got from the clerk who is assigned to the civil cases is as follows....

Since she was never on the lease , you can call the police and they can remove her as a trespasser. I do NOT believe that this is correct. While she was not on the lease she has resided there for about 4 months now and is even making utility payments.

According to what I know as a former officer and what I have read about LLT law....she has achieved status as a " resident " and needs to be formally evicted no different than a former tenant whose lease has expired and has refused to move out.

I have not heard back from the judge but I will probably see him Thursday night at an event and Willa bend his ear at that time.

The advice you got from the clerk may very well be correct: she has been a trespasser for about four months. Still a trespasser.

A little bit OK knowedge is a dangerous thing. That's a very good reason to not allow former peace officers to try to practice law. And, by the way, if you have your heart set on playing attorney, don't talk to the judge about the case at the "event". That would be considered an ex parte contact and therefore highly improper. Most judges, rightfully, take offense at such attempts at ex parte contacts.

As Judy Kay Tee notes, you still haven't answered the question we were all wondering about.