Are there such a thing as grandparents access rights:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Are there such a thing as grandparents access rights:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
My grandparents used them when I was a kid, so I think they're still around...

As to what ?

If you are talking about after a divorce for visitation, a few states have it, many don't, it will depend on where you live ( not sure about Canada and other nations)

Grandparents Rights differ from state to state. I live in California. I raised my grandson for the first 8 years of his life. I supported my daughter, his mother while she earned her college degree. Suddenly, I was of no use to her. She forbid me to ever speak to or see my grandson again. It has been 3 years and the space in my life and heart that was once filled with Jonah, has swallowed me up. The Constitution of the State of California "provides for the biological parents to raise their child as they see fit..."
A grandparent has only 1 right- the right to petition for visitation. The chances of the grandparent winning are slim to none. Trust me. I have been to hell and back on this issue.

Are there such a thing as grandparents access rights:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Depends on what state you live in - I am licensed in NJ and Pa and have somewhat of a concentration in granparents rights in NJ


Quite frankly, the US constitution grants great weight to the parents in this regards and after representing innumberable grandparents and parents, I have to side w/ the parents - grandparents, legally, I believe, should be treated the same as third parties - however, what shoud be (and fortunately is) the case is that third parties relationship w/ the kid in issue. If that third party raised the child, then they may stand in loco parentis, which gives that person rights largely co-equal w/ the parents.

Parents can and should be able to exercise their rights to protecting their child as they see fit, w/o some old guy in a black robe telling them otherwise.

AHA! Advice from legal counsel!
Now there's areally chuckler!
I DID raise my grandson while my daughter did her "own thing."
She was not there to read to him, comfort him when he awoke from a nightmare, or to clean up his vomit in the middle of the night.
Indeed, the state Constitutions "weigh heavy" in support of the parents right "to raise the child as they see fit."
How many children have had bones broken, head trauma, and even been murdered at the hands of these "parents"? The word 'PARENT" needs to be redefined. Beware all of the grandparents who have done all the hard work- the loving, the nurturing, the encouraging, the teaching, the praising, the loving... you could lose your grandchild at the whim of an adult child because of attorneys and the man (or woman) in the flowing, black robe.
GET REAL out there... how many children are in foster care because their mommies and daddies are NOT fit??

If you did all that you said then you would not be a third party - it sounds as if you could stand in loco parentis - which, as I said, gives you rights largely co-equal w/ the parent.


How about instead of "redefining" society's definition of a grandparent, how about you more clearly define you own roles. You have a daughter or son who can't get their act together and irresponsibly brought another life into this work and had to rely on you too heavily. Sounds to me as if it isn't society or the law that is at fault, but, instead your son or daughter and your role in your grandchild's life that is out of wack (fortunately a grandparent, or any third party for that matter, do not too commonly act in loco parentis - however, whenever a parent doesn't stepup and be a parent, that is always a travisty).



Peace out.

Yes indeed.. I did all and more. I supported my daughter and her child while she earned both her BS and Masters in Speech Pathology. Jonah was a brilliant toddler and a fluent reader by the age of 4. Jonah's father kicked them both out when Jonah was 3. The child was combative and angry. My daughter had no interest in participating in helping to guide her son through the difficult transition. I could not simply stand by so I sought the help of a child behaviorist. It was hard work but the child flourished. He was so happy, finding delight in the world around him.
No- I cannot redefine MY role. It was defined for me by the family court system of the State of California. Grandparents have but ONE right according to family law and that is the right to petition for visitation. I spoke with numerous attorneys who specialized in grandparent rights and was told by each and very one that I could spend 20, 30, 50 thousand dollars and would in all likelihood, lose. I did end up spending thousands. I did fight for my grandson but it WAS the system and it WAS the law that tore us apart. For Heaven's sake... look at the equation- what does it require to conceive a child? A primal, non-thinking act. Does this automatically endow the individual(s) with the gift of compassion, caring, unselfishness, and the skills to provide a child with nurturing, a sense of belonging, strength, motivation, along with the many crucial skills the child will need in this world? NO! The family court system is to be held accountable for what becomes of so many children that suffer because the LAW says that it is in their best interest to be with their birth parents. THAT is the travesty. I had no choice. I was a victim of the LAW. Jonah is a victim of the LAW. I have had 2 students die at the hands of their own BIRTH parents. The father, the perpetrator never spent a night in jail. The LAW? Damn right it is to blame.

I feel for your situation! I am the parent fighting my parents to not have rights. And looking at your case, I'm truly sorry that you didn't get some kind of visitiation since you were such an active role in your grandchilds life. Kids need stability, and love! So I'm sure that he misses you as much as you miss him.
In my case I have been the only one there for my children. My parents never played a active role in the children's lives or lived with them. And because they are mad at me they are trying to fight for visitation. We haven't gone to court yet. But I hope they do find no visitation for my parents for many reasons. A lot of it involving the mental and physical abuse I received and want my kids away from. Your post is encouraging to me that they will find that me being a "fit" parent can raise my kids as I see fit.
But again, I truly am sorry for your loss. They need to get out of there robes and come in to our homes to see the decisions that they are making for our children.

For Tinkerbell77...
Indeed, the joys of being a grandparent must be earned. It is not an automatic privilege.
I had wonderful grandparents from whom I learned priceless lessons- through their voices, I came to know my history, my legacies, all those who came before me. If not for them, I believe that my fragile "child heart" would have broken like a fine China cup. On the other hand, I work with a wonderful lady who was abused and molested by her grandfather and ignored and discarded by her grandmother. So yes... the legal counselors, social workers, court officials should decide case by case. Jonah was my magic and I was his touchstone where he found safety and a place where he knew he belonged.
Yes, I do believe that both parents and grandparents will use the children as pawns, their "ace in the hole", a way to take control, to hurt, to retaliate. But who suffers the most? The child who has no voice. Good luck to you. May the Powers that Be bless your children's lives with goodness, strength, happiness, comfort, and much love! And may those same Powers guide my beautiful Jonah and protect and ever strengthen his precious heart, soul, mind, and spirit- and may he never forget what it felt like to be loved by his Nana.
Pam

Yes, there are states that recognize "Grandparent's Rights". There are also organizations that fight for those rights.

Grand Parents Rights Organization (http://www.grandparentsrights.org/)
Grandparents' Rights: Encyclopedia of Everyday Law (http://law.enotes.com/everyday-law-encyclopedia/grandparents-rights)

There is also a new publication called, "Grandparents’ Rights Manual: 2007" It is available as an efile download from this site: The Grandparents Rights Manual: 2007 (http://www.custodycenter.com/GP-CB/index.html)

One other site, written for Grandparents, is the following:
ASeniorLife.com - The Knowledge to Make it Better! - Grandparents Rights (http://www.aseniorlife.com/grandparents-rights.html?gclid=CJq85KqDgosCFQQXIwodPVGfGQ)

Good luck to you.

I applaud those groups which advocate for the rights of grandparents! An astounding number of grandparents are raising their grandchildren yet if the adult child decided on a whim to play Mommy or Daddy and step back into the child's life- the grandparent(s) is more often than not, discarded and invalidated. I live in Sacramento, CA and I was appalled to learn that there is not a single support group for grandparents. I raised my beautiful Jonah for the first 8 years of his precious life. What a treasure! He was the magic in my life. I also supported my daughter (his mother) while she earned her BS in Speech Pathology and subsequently went on to earn her Master's degree. When she no longer needed me- she severed all ties and told me that I would never see or speak to Jonah again. It has been 3 years and his absence in my life is like a hollow nothingness. When I attempted to send him little cards, gifts... she served me (in my classroom!) with a Petition to file for a Restraining Order! Of course, it was denied and she was reprimanded by the family court judge but her evil malice has brought Hell to Earth for the entire family. My father is dying. My daughter is aware of this. He adored her and they shared a wonderful relationship while she was growing up. Her response to the information about her grandfather was a stone cold, ruthless silence and indifference.
My 4 year old grandson (my son's child) told me recently: "Nana, if my Daddy or Mommy took me away from you, it would kill my life, it would just kill my whole life. Auntie Lexi killed my life because now I can't play with Jonah anymore."
She took her son away from everyone- his family, his support system, his sense of belonging, an immense source of love and nurturing.
She lost her own father to suicide when she was four years old. I was 27 at the time but never skipped a beat. I picked up their lives and loved them with a passion 2nd to none.
She has a very odd boyfriend- an intellectual, heartless, hideous man. I have come to the conclusion that my daughter perceives her boyfriend as her "Daddy." She is told what to wear, who to communicate with, she is rewarded when she does as he asks and scolded if she does not. He is the "Daddy" she never knew. He has manipulated and brainwashed this once magnificent, charming, precious little girl and at his behest, she has disowned her family of origin. My grandson Jonah adored what he called "The Big Family." He delighted in his visits to his cousins, aunts, uncles, and his great grandparents. Now his "story" ends. His story, the history, his legacies are lost to the selfish arrogance, stupidity, and malice of his mother. The rest of his "pages" remain blank. We had so much to offer this wonderful child. What is he learning about relationships? Is he learning that people are discardable? If you no longer need them, you toss them out like rubbish?
Yes. I own and have read many books about the rights (or lack thereof) of grandparents.
"Get rid of the problem, NOT the people." says Arthur Kornhaber, MD- I suggest you read his The Grandparent Guide.
Other experts definitively agree that if a child is separated from a grandparent with whom he/she has forged an "engendered bond", the child may well indeed suffer not only psychologically but physically as well.
Conceiving a child requires but a primal act. Not everyone has the skills to nurture and love the child they bring into the world. How is it that there are thousands of children in foster care? Could it possibly be that their birth mother and/or father is unfit? Yet the Constitution of the State of California provides "for the biological parents to raise their child and they see fit." Who then determines what is "fit"?

This is so sad Old Poet. You know when I broke away from talking to my parents because of there acts. I never took my kids away from the rest of the family or people that they have grown to love. Although there are some family members that have decided to make a war and choose sides and not think of the kids. That is there choice and my children at 7 and 8 have started to see what is truly going on. But as a "parent" you really have to look out what is good for the child. I have a friend who lived with her parents tell her child was 6 and they were "the parents". She has made sure that he mantains frequent contact and stays the night with them once a week, because that was always his home. She has her problems with her parents. But I truly admire her for seeing what is best for him. I really wish it was different for you. You seem like a grandma that loved raising your grandson. I hope you can find some support groups. And if not in your area, maybe on the net?? And definitely try the links that shygrneyzs suggested above! Good luck to you!

Hello Tinkerbell77!
I understand. When my children's father passed away- they were 4 and 6 years old. I moved 400 miles away in an attempt to protect them from their paternal grandparents.
With regards to my Jonah- God knew what He was doing when He teamed us up- He knew that Jonah needed me. Jonah was pure joy! Pure Magic! I have never known a greater Love- so genuine, so real. I miss him. We did everything together and I made sure that I filled his world with sights and sounds, adventure, praise, kindness, and so many, many wonderful things that ALL children have a right to. I worry about him. I always will. I thank you for your kind words and wish you a beautiful, safe life with your children.
oldpoet

Thank you Old Poet...
Just wondering for my situation... Did you ever have a investigation done by a advicate or councler? We had a review done in our case and she is suggesting my parents get visitation, but that there are many family problems stemming from my parents... So it really doesn't make since. Of course it's up to the judge to decide. I just hope that the judge see's what's best and not just one persons opionin.
I wish you the best... I'm sure Jonah will remember the memorys you made with him. And when he is old enough, he may want to see you on his own.

Are there such a thing as grandparents access rights:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
If you live in the state of Ohio there are no Grandparent's Right .

For Tinkerbell77:
I do not know in which state you live. I did hire an attorney and consulted with several others. An investigation was never an option, never suggested to me by my legal counsel. I can only assume that in California, it is not an avenue available to grandparents. This is unfortunate because had there been any type of investigation, many truths would have been exposed and I do believe that if this had been the case, Jonah would still be in my life.
My attorney was a sweetheart, a gentle, kind individual but inexperienced with regards to grandparents rights. She was just as frightened as I was.
oldpoet

Oldpoet,
I live in Colorado. And I think the reason for the investigation was because of a custody battle between my ex and I at the same time. The "counclor" knows the coucling part, but not the legal part. I've heard it's hard to get grandparent visitation. And my lawyer isn't really saying much. So I'm not sure what to think at this point? I'm sorry they didn't offer this to you in your state. It does get some truths out. The lady did put in her report that my parents have many family issues they need to deal with. So making the suggestion that the kids should still go over there cause there house is safe... Doesn't make much since. So I guess it's just in the judges hands. But thanks for all your advise!

I need help fighting for my grandchildren who's mother doesn't want them what am I to do??

Mygrandee2:
If the mother doesn't want them, then wouldn't the state let family take them? What is the full situation... I don't know a lot about grandparent visitiation or custody,. but I've been doing my homework with being in court right now!! I can let you know what I've heard!

The only "rights" grandparents have is to intervene when the parent is a drug addict and exposed or physical abuse occurs to the child. Grandparents rights/ visitation, at least in Wisconsin, is granted ONLY if visitation is outlined in the original biological parents divorce decree. Like gun control, politicians have never been a victim of their own laws and until they are, these laws will not be changed.

emtfingers: I wish that was the truth about my state. They seem to think if there is a divorce or a death... The parents have NO say so weather the grandparents should have there own visitiation... I wish for my case there was a flat out "no" enless the child was in danger!! Please let me know of any advise for my case, as our court hearing will be this summer. I fully intend on getting the media involved... get this stuff known to the world. Cause these "grandparent's" that aren't good, are taking advantages of the laws for there own control and power against there kids. Not good for the kids that get tossed in the middle of it all!!

The only "rights" grandparents have is to intervene when the parent is a drug addict and exposed or physical abuse occurs to the child. Grandparents rights/ visitation, at least in Wisconsin, is granted ONLY if visitation is outlined in the original biological parents divorce decree. Like gun control, politicians have never been a victim of their own laws and until they are, these laws will not be changed.

Grandparent rights are gaining steam thruout the US. I don't know about Wisconsin, but intervening when there is a danger to the child from their current guardians is an OBLIGATION, not a right. But such an intervention would involve reporting the problems to the local social services agency. Not taking contorl of the children.

Are there such a thing as grandparents access rights:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I am currently in dispute with my son and DIL (from HELL) concerning visitation with my granddaughter who will be living with them for the first time. She has been living with her mother in Missouri, but will be living with my son for the next year. I have spoken to a lawyer and was told that in the state of Louisiana grandparents do have visitation rights and I can expect to get her at least one weekend a month. So I do plan to pursue filing a petition and taking legal action for the sake of my granddaughter. My advice would be check with a local attorney. I found one that did not charge me for the first consult.

There are a lot of important issues that are being ignored in some of these comments. First, there are really two very different situations that arise regarding grandparents. One is the event of a divorce where conflicts between parents create breaches with in-laws. The other is one as mentioned above where the grandparents literally have been doing the parenting, including support, where the parents clearly were not competent parents in the first place. In both cases the issue of the child's development should be the primary issue. A divorce is traumatic for children. It's an adjustment and it should not be made more traumatic by a sudden separation from any family member on either side that the child has a bond with. Children need love and support from an extended community beyond their parents. Divorces include custody and visitation settlements, but children should not be subject to additional personal losses by suddenly being deprived of the love of other family members. It's odd but I don't see any concern in these comments for the seriously negative impact of suddenly being deprived of the love of an important parental figure in a child's development. In cases where parents clearly are not prepared to even support their child financially, they are neither prepared for effective parenting. In these cases that child's developmental needs are being met by the grandparents, not the parents. In the case discussed here, the mother is actually a dependent herself. When she broke off from her mother, she did not do it out of concern for her child's welfare, she did it because her personality demanded she not be reminded that she owed anybody anything. This breach is at the expense of that child's development, sense of family and sense of security. It creates confusion and loss in a child. The child's developmental needs have never been met by the parents, and there is no reason to expect them to be so in the future. In my case, I made a similar mistake. I consider this a mistake because in the end I misjudged my own son's character. I was subjected to a virtual assault as a result of my refusing to go along with a continual pattern of abuse and neglect of my grand daughter. Both parents made a very big show about us all being a family until my financial condition prevented me from continuing the kind of support I had been providing since the child's birth. In fact this was a very carefully orchestrated scheme by a very organized faction of criminally minded people affiliated with a gang, whom my son apparently has fallen completely under their influence and control. Clear signs of abuse were identified in a physical examination by a physician and my grand daughter was taken from my home violently to prevent further investigation. People seem to miss the big point here. My grand daughter called her mother "sister-mommy" because she knew herself she was not a mother. She had no connection to the child's needs and in fact sadistically punished her for even behaving like a normal child. Her father she called by his first name. She called my home, her home. It was the only place she was allowed just to be a child. They were very secretive for years and created a very intentional deception, but all they were after was money to pretend they were something they were not. I thought my son and I were as close as a father and son could be. So I lost my grand daughter and my son. The mother I always knew got pregnant on purpose to be supported and was pretty transparent. But I did not realize she completely controlled my son. So the point is, these people are in a very dangerous gang and sooner or later they are going to be arrested. In the mean time my grand daughter is being sadistically abused and neglected, and deprived of a very profoundly important relationship to her development. She called me "The Dad." I did not try to take over, I tried to help the parents learn to be parents. They were not interested in that. This child was under so much distress that she was referred to mental health treatment by her pediatrician at the age of five. She is afraid of her mother. She has terrible frightful nightmares nightly, even migraine headaches. Her childhood has been destroyed and fractured. But she also talked to me, and that's why I can't see her anymore. Because I am the only person she trusts to talk to about how she really feels and what is happening to her. So, when her parents are eventually arrested, my grand daughter will be thrown into foster care. Nobody seems to actually comprehend that living with two people who are actively involved in violent criminal activities is not in the child's developmental interests. I have to look at pictures of her on Facebook being hugged by a gang banger with a 200 lb pit bull, absolutely terrified with a phoney smile put on to please her mother who thinks this makes good propaganda and shows her daughter is happy or something. The mother did not even have shoes when that baby was born. She followed my son to college out of state with closets full of dresses and high heeled shoes and helped him squander his financial aid partying. Of course this was kept a complete secret until she was about to have the baby. My son made overt application for me to be a part of the child's life forever. I was there when she was born. Nobody else was. The whole thing was a racket, and it was not so much at my expense as it was at the child's expense. My grand daughter always considered her family to be, of course, mommy and daddy, grampa and uncle - my son's brother. His brother and I made a huge effort to give this child a sense of family, when the parents were incapable of doing so. Now she has been ripped away from half of her primary family. That's the case that is being missed here. All across this country, there are children desperate for adoption. In these cases, the social services involved recognize even for the importance of some children to maintain close contact with former foster families if they are actually become bonded to them. They understand the importance of siblings being adopted together. They know that children absolutely cannot be stripped away from anyone they have "adopted" in their developmental years as a parental or primary family figure. They need those people in their lives to grow into healthy adults. Why is it, simply because grand parents step in where foster care is a probability in the first place, and suddenly these same principles do not apply. Constitutional provisions about parental rights were directed at traditions that don't even exist anymore for the most part; that is, wealthy patriarchal families concerned about their multi-generational survival and long standing traditions which gave elders a great deal of authority in families. That is hardly an issue anymore. The issue is, the children's development and sense of family. In these cases the children do not have a chance to speak. At least in a divorce they do. So, in effect, it's the child's rights that are being violated. Which comes to the present point in my case, because the major problem is the mother thinks a child is a piece of property, not a life. I have been told even by the child's preschool teachers how important it was for me to stay in close contact with this child, that it would be a terrible thing not to. Aside from family stories, a grand parent can be a lot more, if the parents are simply incapable of filling a truly parental role and have no concept of a child's developmental needs. For one thing, sadistically abuse people are manipulative and secretive and children are taught that they will be hurt if they talk. They are further brainwashed to believe that the treatment they are receiving is okay. More often than not, children are ripped away from loving grand parents to cover up abuse. There really is no other reason, is there? Even if there is not outright abuse, the parents we are talking about have never demonstrated any interest, inclination or talent for parenting in the first place, and breaking with the grand parents is simply a way to avoid accountability and responsibility, a propensity for which is already well established.

I didn't read your whole post--but apparently you didn't read everything either, or you would have noticed the DATES were nearly 3 years old.

This thread is CLOSED.

If you want to discuss grandparent rights, then start your own thread.