My house is going to be 16 years old. I need to replace one of the toilet angle valves in one of my bathrooms. I'm looking at the valve and it looks like it was soldered onto the end of the copper pipe and not used with a compression fitting and ferrel. Is this possible? Sounds like more work to me to do this, can I possibly be seeing things?

No you aren't seeing things, they did do that but very rarely now. How much of the piping is protruding out of the wall. You may be able to cut the supply and use a compression fitting. Try tightening the cap on the stop or remove the handle and cap, use some teflon string packing and retighten cap.

Wow, I can't believe my hunch was right. I'm not sure what to think about this situation. I guess the plumber that did the pipes was "old school" and soldered all of the valve stops in my house. (they ALL seem to be soldered from my investigation) There is some pipe sticking out of the wall, next question is what size is the pipe? Safe to assume it's 1/2' copper? Looks like I will be heading to a store soon to buy a round cutting wheel and such. Thanks for your replies, keep them coming!

Hi YT195

A real easy solution for you would be to purchase an exact replacement valve and simply swap out the guts from the new to the old.

The valves themselves are built to last a really long time, so if you swap out the guts and hnadle assembly you would practically have a new shutoff without the hassle of cutting anything or messing with installing anything brand new.

As a plumber I very rarely do this, but if my customer is on a tight budget or the pipes are in questionable shape that could lead to a broken pipe behind the wall (or something like that) then this option has worked well every time!

Below is an example of how to do this with a compression valve. The same holds true for a soldered shutoff... just be sure to hold against yourself when tightening/lossening anything, OK? Be sure to replace the entire threaded stem valve (with neoprene rings in place), the packing nut and handle).

Mark

Hi YT195

A real easy solution for you would be to purchase an exact replacement valve and simply swap out the guts from the new to the old.

The valves themselves are built to last a really long time, so if you swap out the guts and hnadle assembly you would practically have a new shutoff without the hassle of cutting anything or messing with installing anything brand new.

As a plumber I very rarely do this, but if my customer is on a tight budget or the pipes are in questionable shape that could lead to a broken pipe behind the wall (or something like that) then this option has worked well every time!

Below is an example of how to do this with a compression valve. The same holds true for a soldered shutoff...just be sure to hold against yourself when tightening/lossening anything, OK? Be sure to replace the entire threaded stem valve (with neoprene rings in place), the packing nut and handle).

Mark

Mark:
Are all of the valve stops the same? How would I be able to match one of these ups 100%? Do I go into the plumbing section and look for the valve that is made to be soldered onto pipe? Do they make these anymore even?

Thanks again, you gave me something to think about!

Yes, shutoffs haven't changed much at all over the years, especially soldered types!

You probably have a brasscraft shutoff with or without the extension tube (see images below)... these look anything like yours? If so, you can find either at any home improvement store.

Otherwise, if you could post a picture of the shutoff here I could save you some running sround time and tell you whether this is as reasonable as I think it is or not!

Just post your answer as normal and follow the links by clicking on GO ADVANCED (below box you type in).

Yes, shutoffs haven't changed much at all over the years, especially soldered types!

You probably have a brasscraft shutoff with or without the extension tube (see images below)...these look anything like yours? If so, you can find either at any home improvement store.

Otherwise, if you could post a picture of the shutoff here I could save you some running sround time and tell you whether this is as reasonable as I think it is or not!

Just post your answer as normal and follow the links by clicking on GO ADVANCED (below box you type in).

Mark:
You have been a GREAT Help, thank you for posting your pics and help! I believe what I have is the valve to the left, although not sure if I have an extension on my valve. I took a couple of pics, don't know if I will be allowed to upload them. Brasscraft is heavy duty, mine looks to be a slightly lesser quality?
I'm lucky because I have two other toilets in the house and have asked the family to leave this one alone until I swap out the internals. Thanks again, I truly appreciate you taking time out to help a novice like me.

Great... pics. Helped a lot! Here's what I would do... ;)

As much as I think swapping out the guts would work for you, the knob doesn't say brasscraft and I hate to see you waste time and money when installing a new compression angle stop is really very easy and you do have PLENTY of pipe exposed to do the job, so I would go to the store and purchase a new 1/2" compression x 3/8" compression angle stop (see image) and install that! Sometimes, they also call these 5/8" O.D. compression x 3/8" compression angle stops so don't get confused by that... they are the same thing!

Here, just cut the old shutoff off about a 1/2" in back of the soldered joint and then just slip the new compression nut and ferrule over the pipe and install the shut off using two crescent wrenches. No need for pipe dope (thread sealer) or teflon tape, OK?

You could buy a cheap mini-tubing cutter and cut the pipe super easy if you want.

It really should be an easy, maybe 15 minute job if you have the right tools!

Mark

Great...pics. helped alot! Here's what I would do...;)

As much as I think swapping out the guts would work for you, the knob doesn't say brasscraft and I hate to see you waste time and money when installing a new compression angle stop is really very easy and you do have PLENTY of pipe exposed to do the job, so I would go to the store and purchase a new 1/2" compression x 3/8" compression angle stop (see image) and install that! Sometimes, they also call these 5/8" O.D. compression x 3/8" compression angle stops so don't get confused by that...they are the same thing!

Here, just cut the old shutoff off about a 1/2" in back of the soldered joint and then just slip the new compression nut and ferrule over the pipe and install the shut off using two crescent wrenches. No need for pipe dope (thread sealer) or teflon tape, OK?

You could buy a cheap mini-tubing cutter and cut the pipe super easy if you want.

It really should be an easy, maybe 15 minute job if you have the right tools!

Mark

Mark:
15 minute job huh? You're the pro, it might be for you, but for a person like me who sometimes has panic attacks for jobs like this, I think NOT! LOLOL! Are there different size angle stops? (probably right?) Lets say I go to the plumbing place do I just ask for a Brasscraft angle stop with the dimensions you say and will it fit on my pipe with no issues?

Mark:
Why do you think the plumber who did all of these connections decided to solder them instead of just using compression fittings? I noticed that one or two others are not shutting the water down completely in one or two other locales, looks like I might be doing this A lot. Curious, but what would a plumber charge for a job like this?

Any compression shutoff the sizes I mention will work perfect. Just confirm that they will fit 1/2" copper pipe with a store associate and you will arive home with the right shut off!

In terms of why someone would solder the shutoffs on, well, I'm still doing it every day, so you can see not really that outdated! The trick with the soldered type shutoffs is that they must be disassembled before soldering them on... this way the rubber seals don't melt. I suspect the plumber that installed your shutoffs didn't diassemble them! Simply put I never have an issue with these type... compression types can sometimes be a bit of a nuisance if overtightened, so I just stick with what works 100% of the time... good, old-fashioned solder type shutoffs!

Finally, if you have all the tools in place and you install compression shutoff, I'll bet it goes faster than you think it will!!

A plumber would charge plenty!

why someone would solder the shutoffs on, well, I'm still doing it every day

Cause he is OLD

If you can cut the old valve off and have enough pipe stubbed out, why not use Shark Bite stop valves? Just push on.

I sure am getting old, but you're still older my friend!. :p

Sharkbite angle stop (see image) would also work fine here.. even easier, for sure as long as he cuts and deburs the ends correctly! As Hkstroud said, just pushes on!

Options abound, YT195... what flavor will you choose!

but you're still older my friend!.

That's for sure. I've got underware older than Mark.

That's for sure. I've got underware older than Mark.

I think I might too, vintage June 1941

I sure am getting old, but you're still older my friend!!...:p

Sharkbite angle stop (see image) would also work fine here..even easier, for sure as long as he cuts and deburs the ends correctly! As Hkstroud said, just pushes on!

Options abound, YT195...what flavor will you choose!

OK, you guys are confusing me some more, Sharkbite? Is it safe to assume it's another brand like Brasscraft? I hate to admit this but the closest Home Depot to me is no longer hiring retired pros in their respective departments, I hope I find someone who will school me correctly. Guys, THANK YOU ALL for your help, tips and advice. Again if soldering the angle stops is such a better option, it sure is a pain when it comes time to replace them if needed. Mark, I would bet my last buck my plumber just soldered them on without taking the stops apart!

Thanks again,
Jay

Brasscraft is a brand of plumbing fittings. They come in solder, screw on and compression type fittings. Shark Bite is a brand of fitting that uses a different type of connection. You just slide them onto a clean, smooth pipe and they lock into place. Shark Bite is a brand name but often used to designate the type of fitting because most of us don't know the proper name for that type of fitting (at least that is my reason).
They are a bit expensive but real easy to use, requires not tools or skill.

Maybe Mark could tell us the proper name of that type of fitting.

Hello Jay,

You got excellent advises from all the experts I will add some more as Mark mentioned in his post #4 to change the guts of the angle valve I will stick with that it will be the easy and cheap way to go.

To change shut the water to your house, remove the screw, the handle of the angle valve, remove the packing nut and remove the threaded steam now go to home depot buy new angle valves and swap the steam with your valves you are done, see the image below, good luck.

John

Relatively easy job, even for a newbie. Turn the house water off, relieve the pressure. Using a pipe cutter, cut the valve off as close to the stop as possible. Get some emery cloth, also in any plumbing dept. and LIGHTLY sand the pipe to remove any old solder. Slide the compression fitting on and tighten the nut while holding the valve body with another wrench. Make it tight. Turn the water on and tighten more if it drips. Sometimes you have to put some good torque on to stop the drip if there is any solder remnant. Let us know how well you did!

Hello Jay,

You got excellent advises from all the experts I will add some more as Mark mentioned in his post #4 to change the guts of the angle valve I will stick with that it will be the easy and cheap way to go.

To change shut the water to your house, remove the screw, the handle of the angle valve, remove the packing nut and remove the threaded steam now go to home depot buy new angle valves and swap the steam with your valves you are done, see the image below, good luck.

John

John:
You are right, Mark INITIALLY said to just change out the internals if I had Brasscraft stops. Since there are no markings on my stops, it might be difficult to just swap out the internals and hope all goes well not knowing if I will be able to match the internals. (Is this right Mark?) I definitely would PREFER this easy way out, but it looks like I will be buying new angle ball stops in the next few days. I have read all of the tips and advice here and have done searches on You Tube and feel confident enough to tackle the work. I just don't like messing with cold water and laying on my cold floor in winter and have the luxury of not having to do it immediately..

Relatively easy job, even for a newbie. Turn the house water off, relieve the pressure. Using a pipe cutter, cut the valve off as close to the stop as possible. Get some emery cloth, also in any plumbing dept. and LIGHTLY sand the pipe to remove any old solder. Slide the compression fitting on and tighten the nut while holding the valve body with another wrench. Make it tight. Turn the water on and tighten more if it drips. Sometimes you have to put some good torque on to stop the drip if there is any solder remnant. Let us know how well you did!

Thanks for your words and tips! I'm getting my nerve up! LOL. I'm actually just gathering as much info as possible, hope to tackle the job in the next few days or so.

FYI. Sharkbite is a brand of "push fit fittings". Push fit fitting is the actuall name of the style of fitting. Many brands out there these days. I still call then all sharkbites too, but there are gatorbite, tectite, etc, etc.

I think maybe some of the confusion as to whether they are allowed by most codes is because the code books call them push fit fittings, not by namebrand. I believe push fits are allowed (even in concealed areas, not to my approval, but I digress) under most every code in the states.

PS. Didn't think anyone but Mark could answer that one, huh Harold? LoL.

Push fits, huh;

Thanks


PS. Didn't think anyone but Mark could answer that one, huh Harold? LoL
I guess it just that I been picking at Mark lately.

That's Ok, Harold, not sensitive in any way! Just more Boston snowballs to throw at you!

Wells guys just a little bit of an update so to speak. No, I haven't done the job yet, just because my stop isn't leaking at the moment and hasn't since I tried to turn off the supply at the stop and once I turned it back to on, it stopped leaking. In any event, I went to Lowe's this morning LATE, 11am or so. I am usually an early bird, but my wife who has been ill was just starting to feel better and I went into work yesterday at 5am and didn't get home until nearly 8pm. So I figure I have better luck with the associates at Lowe's rather than a tiny (and I mean TINY) little Home Depot closest to my home. I get ZERO help at Lowe's, leave the store with a "Keeney" 1/4 turn compression stop and NOTHING else. They had no small pipe cutter or emery paper for that matter! What? I end up at the tiny Home Depot and this kid (20 something) comes up and gives me the BEST help I have ever gotten in that store. Got a Brasscraft stop, one of the small pipe cutters that is round and fits into tight spots and a push on type pipe cleaner. I was very impressed with his knowledge and he was just helping one after the other with speed and accuracy. So, I'm good to go, just need to find a day that the ladies will be out and I will tackle this so I can shut off the water to the house.

Hey, thanks for the update. We all appreciate that. Now, Im starting to wonder if you even need to replace the stop. I assumed it was leaking through the valve (not shutting off completely). But now it sounds like it was leaking from the packing nut. If it is merely leaking at the packing nut you can simply tighten the nut. Go back and look at the pics in previous post's to see the packing nut. Put a backup on the valve body, and snug the nut up. Problem solved. No need to replace the valve at this point.

And hey, glad to hear you got that kind of service at the depot. Very rare experience for sure.

just need to find a day that the ladies will be out

That is a very wise decision.


just because my stop isn't leaking at the moment and hasn't since I tried to turn off the supply at the stop and once I turned it back to on, it stopped leaking

Does that mean that the leak is (was))around the stem? A quick scan of this thread and I don't see where you said where the leak was.

My thoughts exactly Harold. I really think this is simply a "tightening of the packing nut" job.

See post #26. I think we were answering at the same time. Greats minds...

Greats minds...

Huh!

You would have thought that one us would have been smart enough to ask where the leak was.

It's all Brian's fault.

Thanks again guys, but I did try tightening the packing nut. ( I have done this to the outside spiggot and one other inside my home) It made no real difference, she was TIGHT. In fact I have only turned off this stop one other time, to replace the tank fill valve about 3 or 4 years ago. In fact, I was thinking of doing this again when I heard running water and reached for the valve, saw the leaking vavle and that's when I remembered to just try and replace the flapper first. I believe Marks explanation of my plumber sweating these valve stops in place with the internals and knobs there makes the most sense. We are not a family to turn these things on and off, they get very little use. It makes no sense to me, why she would leak when I went into the off position and doesn't leak in the on? Can anyone possibly explain this to me?

One other thing about SOME of the other angle stops in my house. I have noticed that one or two of them, maybe three, don't completely shut the water off to a FULL stop. I can see ever the slightest of water still come up out of the pipe. I have only tried tightening the current angle stop packing nut. These stops again have seen very little use, and they are ALL multi turn stops, NONE are 1/4 turn stops.

It happens. When valve is all the way open The seat probably helps seal around the stem. When valve is closed the back pressure from the supply tube causes it leak around the stem. If you flushed the toilet with the valve closed the leak would have stopped. I've seen valves do that more than once. Leak in the partially open position and stop when fully opened.

Just for grins hold the valve with a pair of pliers and try turning the nut 1/8 turn. Everything has it limits and some times it just won't tighten anymore.

No doubt that the valves that don't turn off completely need to be replaced.
Not to worry, once you have done one, the rest are a piece of cake.

It happens. When valve is all the way open The seat probably helps seal around the stem. When valve is closed the back pressure from the supply tube causes it leak around the stem. If you flushed the toilet with the valve closed the leak would have stopped. I've seen valves do that more than once. Leak in the partially open position and stop when fully opened.

Just for grins hold the valve with a pair of pliers and try turning the nut 1/8 turn. Everything has it limits and some times it just won't tighten anymore.

Harold, I believe this is what happened in my case, so should I TRY tightening the packing nut some more? I didn't want to tighten it anymore than it was because believe me when I say, it was and felt TIGHT when I had my crescent wrench on it.

If you hold the valve while your are trying to tighten the nut, you can't hurt anything. Either it will or it won't tighten anymore, doesn't take but about 1/8 turn.

If you hold the valve while your are trying to tighten the nut, you can't hurt anything. Either it will or it won't tighten anymore, doesn't take but about 1/8 turn.


OK, will try this in a few, lunch is calling!