41 = Primary oxygen sensor heater

Here's how to replace the oxygen sensor:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-trucks/faq-how-troubleshoot-repair-maintain-hondas-selected-other-vehicles-46563.html#post223376

Hi, TxGreaseMonkey,

I came to this site because I also have a "Check Engine" light on my Honda Civic. Before I start a new thread addressing my problem, may I ask you about this particular comment of yours to Jacob77.

When I check your hyperlink, it's about "25. Honda Oxygen Sensor Replacement"

I also checked the rest of the linked webpage and searched for "primary oxygen sensor heater" but found nothing.

Could you please help me?

Thanks.

There are 2 O2 sensors on the Honda, primary and secondary.

When there's a DTC that indicates that there's a "Primary Oxygen Sensor Heater" problem, the solution invariably requires replacing the "upstream" sensor. Hence, the hyperlink on how to replace it.

Dear ma0641 and TxGreaseMonkey,

Thank you for your replies to my question.

I'm perhaps missing something. But what I don't understand is how you went from
"4 short, 1 long" set of flashes" to "Primary Oxygen Sensor Heater" problem.

In other words, how did you know that " problem.

In other words, how did you know that " = "Primary Oxygen Sensor Heater" problem?

Thanks again.

Here is Jacob77's original quote:


I counted the number of flashes from the "Check Engine Light" -- four long, one short.

That's a DTC 41, Primary Oxygen Sensor Heater.

Dear ma0641 and TxGreaseMonkey,

Thank you for your replies to my question.

I'm perhaps missing something. But what I don't understand is how you went from
"4 short, 1 long" set of flashes" to "Primary Oxygen Sensor Heater" problem.

In other words, how did you know that "4 short, 1 long" = "Primary Oxygen Sensor Heater" problem?

Thanks again.

That is the code the check engine light gives. It does not spell out the problem, it flashes a code which is then translated by book or OBD tester.

ma0641,
Thanks for your reply.

Is this list of codes available online?

Never mind. I found the list on The Codes Thread: How To Pull CEL, D4, SRS, and ABS Codes (with Code Lists) - Honda-Tech (http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1901557)

Thanks.

Dear AskMe community,

I have a 1995 automatic Civic. After doing some maintenance work on the Civic (replacing distribution cap and rotor; checking transaxle/transmission fluid; checking brake fluid level, adding coolant; cleaning battery terminals and battery clamps) the car now gives a "Check Engine" light when the car is running.


We didn't think we did any damage to the engine, so we thought maybe we just have to disconnect the battery temporarily, and turn ignition to II ("2") to remove any remaining electrical power and then reconnecting the battery. That didn't help.

I then tried to get the Engine Code by putting either end of a metal paper clip into a thingy on the right side of the front passenger seat. Below the glove box.


Here's a pic http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1441/p1030917tg.jpg

I then turned the car key in the ignition to II ("2"), but I did not get any flashes at all.

Please help. I really want to know why I'm getting the "Check Engine" Light.

Thanks.

Dear ma0641 and TxGreasemonkey,

I created my own post with my own problem at
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-trucks/1995-civic-shows-check-engine-light-put-paper-clip-into-2-holes-but-no-flashes-720531.html



Please take a look. Thank you so much.

When you turn the ignition switch to ON (Position II), does the Check Engine Light (CEL) come on and then go off after 2 seconds? If not, the problem is with the ACG (ALT) (S) fuse, in the under dash fuse/relay box; ECM (perform the K-Test, below); main relay; or the ignition switch.

The K-Test: Remove the MAP Sensor connector and turn the ignition switch to ON (Position II). Using a multimeter, check for 5 volts going between the MAP Sensor connector's reference wire (+) and ground. As you look at the connector, this is the socket on the right. Really press the black test lead into a cleaned main ECM ground on the thermostat housing. If the voltage is low, it's probably indicating ECM failure. Most failed ECMs will record a fraction of a volt.

I suspect ECM failure, which is common on these older Civics. You will likely need to remove the old ECM, get the Honda Part No. and buy a remanufactured ECM (shop for price and warranty).

Hello, TxGreaseMonkey,

When I turn the ignition switch to On, Position II, yes, the Check Engine Light comes on and then goes off after 2 seconds.

I did this without any paper clip in the blue plastic thingy.

If a code is thrown, the CEL will stay on. It sounds like your CEL is not staying on, however. Hence, no code was stored in the ECM.

TxGreaseMonkey,
I figured out what I was doing wrong. I was not inserting my paperclip the right way. When I moved the paper clip tips to the other side of that metal barrier in the middle, then I got some blinking.

And here's how it blinked: 9 short, 0 long, then pause (no CEL light) for about 2 or 3 seconds. Then this would repeat. According to The Codes Thread: How To Pull CEL, D4, SRS, and ABS Codes (with Code Lists) - Honda-Tech (http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1901557), "9-0" means "Evaporative Emission Control System Leak". How do I fix this?


Thank you.

90--Evaporative Emission Control System leak detected in the fuel tank area.

Ensure the gas cap is tight and not leaking.

90--Evaporative Emission Control System leak detected in the fuel tank area.

Ensure the gas cap is tight and not leaking.

Hi, TxGreaseMonkey.
Thanks for your reply.
I pulled the lever for the fuel "mini-door" and tightened the gas cap until it clicked about 10-15 times. Then I started the car (position III) again. But I still see the CEL light. :-( Does this mean there's still some other problem?

:-(

Disconnect the negative battery cable, or pull the 7.5A Backup Fuse in the under hood fuse box, for 10 seconds and that will clear the code. Then, see if the code returns.

TxGM,


1995 Civic shows "Check Engine" light. I put paper clip into 2 holes but no flashes - HondaCivicForum.com (http://www.hondacivicforum.com/forum/mechanical-problems-technical-chat-8/1995-civic-shows-check-engine-light-i-put-paper-clip-into-2-holes-but-no-flashes-94565/#post783726)

says that the problem probably is with CYP (distribution/rotor) and not Gas Cap. The poster's conclusion fits well with the maintenance work that my friend performed on my Civic.

I've asked him how he determined that 9 short , 0 long flashes = CYP and not EVAP.

If you know, please advise.

:-)

Codes 1 through 9 are indicated by individual short blinks. Codes 10 and above are indicated by a series of long and short blinks. The number of long blinks equals the first digit; the number of short blinks equals the second digit. Therefore, I think you have a Code 9 = CYP--Cylinder Position Sensor.

The CYP is an unserviceable sensor, located in the distributor. You need to buy a new genuine Honda distributor housing and install your current Ignition Control Module (ICM) and coil in it. Be sure to apply silicone heat transfer compound to the back of the old ICM. Don't waste your time or money installing an aftermarket distributor, which are junk and unreliable.

[QUOTE=coconutmilk;3338782]TxGM,


I just talked to my friend who replaced my Civic's distributor cap and rotor and he admitted using much force. He thinks he did break some plastic part that was acting as a shield. :-(

He'll be coming by in 10 minutes.

:-(

Here are several write-ups that will help you:

Ignition Control Module (ICM or Igniter) and Coil Replacement

Bench testing ICMs and coils is virtually useless. It does not come close to simulating the extreme heat that often causes these components to fail. I recommend replacing these critical and problematic components every 120,000 miles or 10 years, whichever comes first.


1. Disconnect negative battery cable, recording any radio codes first.

2. Remove hex-head machine screws (3), securing distributor cap to housing, using an 8mm nut driver.

3. Move distributor cap and wires off to the side.

4. Remove machine screw securing rotor to shaft, using a precision #2 Phillips head screwdriver. A 1/4-inch drive magnetic bit holder (e.g. Wiha 52650) with a #2 Phillips head bit works really well. It may be necessary to "hit" the starter once or twice, in order to rotate rotor for access to mounting screw.

5. Remove rotor and leak cover.

6. Unfasten ICM wires, remove coil mounting screws (on distributors with a coil inside), and set coil aside. Trick: Removing the coil first, on distributors with a coil inside, improves access to the ICM.

7. Remove both screws securing heat sink to housing, using a precision #2 Phillips head screwdriver.

8. Remove heat sink from distributor and unfasten both screws mounting ICM to heat sink, using a precision #2 Phillips head screwdriver.

9. Clean connections with #240 abrasive cloth or steel wool.

10. Coat the back of the new ICM (or old ICM, if reusing) with a thin, even coat of silicone heat transfer compound. This special silicone grease increases heat transfer to the heat sink. Failure to apply silicone heat transfer compound will cause the ICM to quickly fail. Arctic Silver 5 is recommended by an AMHD member, which is available at Radio Shack.

If the ICM and the heat sink are simply placed together, the small air gaps (insulator) that naturally exist between them will inhibit heat transfer. By filling these gaps, the compound allows a direct path through which heat can travel. Failure to apply this grease is one reason why some Hondas suddenly die. Attention to detail makes a big difference with modern day electronics.

11. Mount ICM to heat sink and reinstall ICM, ICM terminal wires, coil, coil wires, leak cover, rotor, and distributor cap. Ensure female ICM connectors fit snugly--crimp with pliers, if necessary.


Conceptually, the ICM is a large output transistor (switch) controlling current through the primary coil. ICMs replace points and condenser in older vehicles. In the primary coil, current builds to 5 to 12 amps, generating lots of heat (due to inductance). Then, the trigger signal from the Crankshaft Position Sensor controls when the ICM "switches off" current to the ground wire of the primary coil, causing amperage to go to zero. When this happens, 12 to 14 volts in the primary coil is "stepped-up" to 30,000 volts in the secondary coil. This process creates a "type" of alternating current required for the coil (step-up transformer) to work. In a properly working ICM, timing is precisely when needed to fire each spark plug.

Bottom Line: ICMs and coils take a beating.


Note: Distributor cap contacts can oxidize or corrode, creating high secondary resistance, which can result in rotor and ICM failure, reduced mileage, CEL coming on, catalytic converter failure, or failed emissions test. The secondary ignition system will destroy the ICM and coil, if you do not properly maintain the ignition system. This means replacing the distributor cap, rotor, and spark plug wires every 60,000 miles.


Distributor Replacement

At AskMeHelpDesk.com, over 50% of new aftermarket distributors for Hondas have not worked out of the box. Many of those that initially worked didn't last very long. Therefore, I only recommend genuine Honda distributor housings. It's fine to buy a Honda housing and install an aftermarket Ignition Control Module (ICM) and coil, to keep the cost down. Three reasons account for the majority of Honda distributors needing replacement: orange dust, oil inside, or failed sensors.

1. Disconnect negative battery cable, after recording radio code.

2. Remove #2 Phillips head screw, securing 2-P and 8-P connector mount to the side of the distributor, using a precision screwdriver. Access is often improved if the air filter cover is removed first, using an 8mm nut driver. Separate 2-P and 8-P electrical connectors. The trick to separating these connectors is to squeeze the connector's mounting release first and remove from mount. Then, the connector will separate--do not force.

3. Mark distributor housing and bracket, for timing to be close later, using a scribe (or awl) and straight-edge.

4. Remove three hex-head machine screws, securing distributor cap to housing, using an 8mm nut driver.

5. Move distributor cap and wires off to the side.

6. Remove machine screw securing rotor to shaft, using #2 Phillips head screwdriver, and leak cover. It may be necessary to "hit" the starter once or twice, in order to rotate rotor for access to mounting screw.

7. Remove three 12mm bolts securing distributor housing to engine.

8. Remove old distributor, place on table, and remove coil, igniter, and cap seal.

9. Install old igniter, coil, leak cover, cap seal, and rotor in new distributor. Ensure female igniter terminals fit snugly--crimp with pliers, if necessary.

10. Coat O-ring with engine oil.

11. Install distributor, align timing marks on housing and bracket, and button things up.


Note: Due to the ingenious offset shaft, there's no way you can install the distributor incorrectly.

The CYP is an unserviceable sensor, located in the distributor. You need to buy a new genuine Honda distributor housing and install your current Ignition Control Module (ICM) and coil in it. Be sure to apply silicone heat transfer compound to the back of the old ICM. Don't waste your time or money installing an aftermarket distributor, which are junk and unreliable.
Hi, TxGreaseMonkey,
My friend has arrived and inspected the distributor. We're not sure why we would need to buy an entire distributor housing if the problem is only with the CYP sensor.


If you could shed some light, we'd appreciate it. Thank you so much for your help today.

Like I said, the CYP Sensor is not repairable. You may luck out if the problem is a connection issue--clean the connector with abrasive cloth and ensure it fits snugly (squeeze with pliers, if necessary).

My friend tried to clean it, but the CEL still gives the flashes. Looks like we'll need to buy a replacement. We called a wrecker in the area and they are forcing us to buy a complete distributor for $100. Ouch!