Hello:

If you view a campaign as a business, and it very much IS, then the community organizer outbusinessman-ed the businessman.. As a country, we're the beneficiaries of that.

The next order of business is to fix the economy. Obama WILL reach agreement with the intransigent GOP. Consequently, he will have FIXED our health care system in his first term, and he will have FIXED our economic system in the second... He's going to go down as one of the BEST.

excon

Yeah I can see Alinsky style... "pick the target, freeze it, personalize it and polarize it" ,ward type politics is our future. The President proved that a non-stop barrage of negative ads ,funded by the super-PAC's $$ he claims to abhore ,is effective . He proved he could divide and conquer and use identity and class warfare politics successfully .

Conservatives have a lot to learn from his performance.

Conservatives have a lot to learn from his performance.They INVENTED that performance. Our you living in a bubble? Conservatives have mastered the art of spreading FUD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt).

Well if that is true then Romney was not conservative enough. The only time I saw him take the gloves off was in the 1st debate.

Past Glories, Vain Empty Imaginings, If BO "succeeds" in moving the economy forward it will be because he has dragged the Republicans kicking and screaming to the table under the threat of expiring tax cuts

Let's just what the community organizer's results are. So far he hasn't helped the economy much.

In the odd chance he "succeeds " it will be because he followed the Clintoon triangulation and left his left wing inclinations in wraps for the nation's good .

Who cares whose plan he followed as long as he has a plan and it works

"Works" being the operative word. So far it doesn't work.

Hello again, Steve:


"Works" being the operative word. So far it doesn't work.I realize FACTS aren't high on your priority list, but that's why I'M here. You guys just don't have it right.. And, if you DON'T have it right, you'll NEVER fix it. Because what you want to FIX, AIN'T broke.

In fact, it IS working. You SAW the chart I posted... I'll post it again, if you wish. The chart shows that when Obama took office, we were losing 100's of 1,000's of jobs a month. Remember?? We're NOT now. That shows his policy is WORKING.. In fact, now we're ADDING jobs every month and we've been adding them for 43 straight months... That TOO shows his policy is working..

Now, you can call it something else, and I'm sure you will.. But, in the REAL world, it's WORKING...

Excon

Hey you're right, what they are in denial about is it is their policies that created this situation and now they bleat that someoneelse doesn't have the ability to immediately reverse the effects. They created the greatest recession, depression even, since the great depression and they want instant. Well instant comes with pain and they aren't ready to feel pain. They are lucky BO isn't communist or he would confiscate their wealth and stand them against the wall

The cart would move faster if we got the dead weight out of it. How do you go forward when the right is pulling us backward?

I just gave you the solution, in a gun culture I don't know how it is you don't understand this.

Seriously though, it is called consensus, not pulling a Boehner, by saying revenue growth has to come from growth. What is so bad about the Bush tax cuts expiring, then there would be a base to negotiate from. You have one of the least taxed populations in developed countries. Don't look at the rates and say we are higher, look at the effective rate and for someone like Romney to pay 11, or 14%, ridiculous. He is just ripping off the rest of the population. Time to let go of mortgage interest deductions, put a limit on charitable deductions and any other ideas that negate the tax rate

You could confiscate all the rich money and still not solve the fact that we spend way too much Monopoly money on bloated and inefficent bureaucracies , wasteful programs ,and entitlements .

Yeah I heard it and reality is, some part of that might be true, you don't seem to have the ability to do anything simply. With fifty states you have massive duplication, but you have to ask yourself, if the founding fathers intended federal government to be small, how did it get so big?

Your military has just run away, it is way bigger than it needs to be, pure paranoia. You want to block entitlements, but which would you block? Only way out is to set caps. You could ditch some of the items, agriculture, energy, etc but they are a mere drop in the bucket. Your government should not be able to overspend its receipts to the massive extent it does $1.3 trillion of discretinary expenditure, perhaps you could kick Pakistan off the teat

Hello again, tom:

That's an old right wing argument. We don't think taxing the rich will SOLVE our debt crisis.. It'll just make the tax system FAIRER. That's all. It's really simple. Oh, and while it won't SOLVE our debt crisis, it won't ADD to it like it does now...

You DO know they're causing massive debt for us, don't you? You DO know that we have to borrow from the dreaded CHINA to pay for them, don't you?

excon

The cart would move faster if we got the dead weight out of it. How do you go forward when the right is pulling us backward?


You mean forward like California? Or Texas, where all those California businesses are coming to. Did you know the unemployment rate in Amarillo is under 5%? We've been doing pretty good here in spite of things and we'd appreciate you not dragging us backward.

So you are not really interested in solving the problem ;just dealing with your perceptions of what is fair ,even with the evidence that increasing tax rates reduces revenues .
I'm all in favor of tax reform . When the Dems can have a serious discussion about that ,then at least the revenue question would be solved .

Short of military cuts ;which by the way I've already said was needed ; what other spending reductions does your side have ? Nothing . In fact ;your side continues to promote even greater spending .

Hello again, tom:

I too, have listed things that should be cut.. I BELIEVE that we should live within our means. I also BELIEVE we can DO that WITHOUT sacrificing national security and WITHOUT throwing granny over the cliff.

For starters, in it's most SIMPLISTIC sense, your candidate pointed out the exact way to DO it, too. Now, I'm not going to cite exact numbers here, but when Romney was in Israel, he remarked that they were able to take care of their peoples health care needs, and spend about 10 percentage points of GDP LESS than we do.

Seems to me, that if we did just HALF of what the Israeli's (and the rest of the western world) does, the money left over would pay for ALL the things you wingers say we can't afford.

Now, I realize you folks have ideological reasons you don't want to do that, but it seems to me that you love your country too much to NOT do that...

excon

Increasing tax rates reduces revenues, I have never heard a more ridiculous argument. I suppose closing loopholes reduces revenue too. Next you will tell us reducing tax rate increase revenue. Look Tom improving the employment position takes a certain number of people out of the loop and reduces expenditure and a little economic growth improves revenue but you need a complete systemic change to improve your debt position. The major items are not those affected by these drivers. Look at your corporate taxes they are a very small part of revenue, that doesn't make sense in the largest economy in the world

All I know is raising taxes helps the black market and increases revenue elsewhere.

Cigarette smuggling on the rise as taxes skyrocket (http://www.myfoxchicago.com/story/19093872/2012/07/23/cigarette-smuggling-on-the-rise-as-taxes-skyrocket#ixzz2C1cR01WE)

Denmark is abolishing the fat tax it enacted last year (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20280863) because it "inflated food prices and put Danish jobs at risk." Seems Danes were crossing over into Germany for cheaper food.

At least they've learned a lesson, Chicago just plans on raising cigarette taxes (http://www.suntimes.com/news/cityhall/16115685-418/cook-countys-proposed-1-a-pack-cigarette-tax-wins-preliminary-approval.html) again.

Increasing tax rates reduces revenues, I have never heard a more ridiculous argument... Next you will tell us reducing tax rate increase revenue..

And yet it has been proven true 3 times in my lifetime.

but you need a complete systemic change to improve your debt position.
No kidding... systemic spending on government giv-aways has destroyed the West.

Look at your corporate taxes they are a very small part of revenue, that doesn't make sense in the largest economy in the world
And yet the corporate rates are near if not the highest in the Western world .

and yet it has been proven true 3 times in my lifetime.

reverse psychology is a wonderful thing

no kidding ... systemic spending on government giv-aways has destroyed the West.

Government giveaways do you mean the boondoggles stapled to bills? Who do you have to blame for this, government or politicians?

and yet the corporate rates are near if not the highest in the Western world .

Tom I have tried to be rational with you on this issue but you know as well as I do tax is all about polispeak.If tax rates were to apply as they were intended they would raise revenue but every little lobby group has found a way to get a concession with the result that the effective rate is very much lower. What does it matter what the rest of the world's tax rates are, this isn't a popularity contest. No one else has the concessions you do
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/current-events/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/business/.../03rates.html

As this article declares US companies are world leaders in tax avoidance

As a true comparison Tom, in 2010 the US had an effective average rate of 23% compared with a base 35% rate, while my own nation had a 22% effictive average rate compared with a base rate of 30%. Not that much between us actually excepting we don't have that inefficient state thing

Sorry Clete, you are NOT a true capitalist because you don't believe in the capitalist business model. MO" MONEY, and worship the god of trickle down.

You are unworthy!!

It's not a worship of anything Tal, it's called common sense - something frowned upon in this day. A trillion here and a trillion there, pretty soon you run out of other people's money. Is that how you run your finances or do you try and work within your means? Or do you just suck off the government teat and not worry about it?

Sorry Clete, you are NOT a true capitalist because you don't believe in the capitalist business model. MO" MONEY, and worship the god of trickle down.

You are unworthy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never suggested I am a capitalist although highly trained to administer the capitalist system. I don't worship the twin gods of money and averice. The capitalist system is based on individual accumulation, which it is supposed leads to wide spread employment, but capital has learned, you can invest your money in selected bonds and get a return at least equal to putting your money at risk, so why take on these other responsibilities.

I don't care if I am unworthy, I just care if I am right. I live in a place which has demonstrated quite ably that capital properly regulated can both flourish and maintain employment. We made one mistake, we fell for the foolishness of thinking there is such a thing as a level playing field

Clete ;if you are talking tax reform I'm all on board. The phoney Dems want to keep the deduction because the truth is that their own rich supporters benefit from them;and indeed ,over the course of the last century ;they were more responsible than the Repubics for distorting the code.
They advocate something even more insidious than Marxism if that's possible. At least Marxist play lip service to 'from each according to their abiiity' . These people are more into a Roman statist... bread and circus .

Yes Tom I agree that what you have is a circus, but you have forgotten the bread, even the Romans knew a starving population was a recipe for disaster. The Romans knew that to keep a peaceful population you fed them on blood sport and bread all financed by the state but you have not given them the sport and you refuse them the bread.

I agree with reform, a simplification. It has worked well here. I'm not against lower tax rates, but a fairer system which places the burden on those that earn the money and therefore benefit. You want to broaden the system, use a broad based consumption tax, then everyone pays something according to their means. Those who spend more pay more. The idea that tax is a disincentive to capital is pure balloney, capitalist rhetoric. It just has to be factored into the return on investment but no one should be able to take super profits out of the system. Income tax is a very ineffective and regressive measure, because a whole industry has risen up to help minimise liability but I would rather take 10% off the top at point of consumption than try to extract 35% after the event at point of income.

Imagine this; yours is a $14 Trillion economy your take is about $1 trillion in income tax but you could halve income tax and take 10% off the top and you would have twice the revenue. This is what we did and our economy powers on. Where did all the extra money come from, from the tax cheats and cash economy.

Hello clete:

They're NOT interested in reducing the deficit.. It's all subterfuge. All they want to do is GUT the safety net. If they really wanted to FIX it, they'd be right there with single payer health care.. It'll save at least FIVE percentage points off our GDP. The savings would be in the JILLIONS..

Now, I know they HATE it, but the money we'd save would pay for any size military they'd could fantasize about, plus it would take care of our seniors and our poor exactly like the leader of the world should do...

Even Romney saw the savings... But, they'll IGNORE me, and talk about how Medicare is bankrupting us... But, NOW you know the secret.

excon

It is no secret Ex that business isn't interested in anything but profit. Once you are on the scrap heap, they don't want to assist the government to pay for you.

Your various programs are very expensive relative to the revenue collected and both you and I understand why they would object to pay more, since rich business men don't get anything out of the system. They are unable to see the connect between their ability to earn and their responsibilities.

What is bankrupting you is lack of revenue, someone forgot that people age and that they live a long time, but these things are circular, something these fellows also forgot. Those people on the receiving end spend that money and fuel the very business that object to taxes

The jig is up for the obstruction thing so maybe we get some consensus, and a plan of action instead of this gridlock and phoney crisis crap.

Nah they are politicians they must look good to the faithfull

The jig is up for the obstruction thing
Yes ,if Harry Reid is on board a consensus can be reached. Now that he has successfully protected his majority ,maybe he can actually get around to some legislating .

Wealthy Dump Assets Before the 'Fiscal Cliff' - U.S. Business News - CNBC (http://www.cnbc.com/id/49792979)

Now that Obama bought the vote in Ohio... time to throw them under to bus too.

Ohioans (http://www.toledoblade.com/State/2012/11/12/Ohioans-food-stamp-aid-to-be-cut.html)

Don't be a cynic Tom it may be time to consider the restructuring of the auto industry

it may be time to consider the restructuring of the auto industry

You think ? Of course a normal tried and true bankruptcy process would've expedited that process.

Its already been restructured and best if the right keep its hands off it.

Tom I don't think anything of the kind, if I recall your auto industry was going down for the count. You would have lost GM. That is a vital industry, a government just can't afford to throw it away. Now I think your banks should have gone through the bankruptcy process too and they are not so vital there are plenty of them. Look whatever those costs were they are small compared with the absolute waste of money represented by the Iraq war. Your woes don't have anything to do with bailouts, they have everything to do with corporate greed, irresponsibility and pure bloodlymindedness of CEO's and boards. You would like it the other way with a greek style austerity, pensions cut, public service salaries cut, 25% unemployment, 50% youth unemployment, riots in the streets

Now I think your banks should have gone through the bankruptcy process too and they are not so vital there are plenty of them.

Absolutely I opposed the TARP bailouts too ;but you are wrong ,GM would've survived a LAWFUL bankruptcy process.


You would like it the other way with a greek style austerity, pensions cut, public service salaries cut, 25% unemployment, 50% youth unemployment, riots in the streets we will get there eventually under out current trajectory of government give-aways ,entitlements ;and yes public employee benefits.

Whether the government calls it the way you would like or not, one thing that is not going to get you out of the trough is current capitalist behaviour. There must be investment and risk taking, all you have at this moment is profit taking

What you are getting right now is an asset sell off because the rich don't want to get fleeced next year.

So sell your assets at a loss to avoid tax, eh, makes a lot of sense. Do they actually teach that sort of logic over there?

so sell your assets at a loss to avoid tax, eh, makes a lot of sense. Do they actually teach that sort of logic over there?

No. But rich guys are in there own world here.

So it might seem, perhaps if I apply that psychology to my investments I might make money

Rich guys have lawyers and accountants and tax shelters. Do you?

so sell your assets at a loss to avoid tax, eh, makes a lot of sense

It's just math, they didn't get rich by being stupid.

It's just math, they didn't get rich by being stupid.Does that mean that you're stupid?

Rich guys have lawyers and accountants and tax shelters. Do you?

I am an accountant

Does that mean that you're stupid?

Nice. Grow up.

I am an accountant

The explain the French.


French CEOs: 'Help!' (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-11-14/french-ceos-help)

...

On Nov. 5, veteran corporate chieftain Louis Gallois released a government-commissioned report calling for “shock treatment” to restore French competitiveness. And on Oct. 28, a group of 98 CEOs published an open letter to Hollande that said public-sector spending, which at 56 percent of gross domestic product is the highest in Europe, “is no longer supportable.” The letter was signed by the CEOs of virtually every major French company. (The few exceptions included utility Electricité de France, which is government controlled.)

The outcry is unusual for France Inc. which has tended to lobby behind the scenes and avoid public criticism of the government. That’s perhaps not surprising, since many CEOs attended the same schools as the country’s top politicians and often worked in government before going into business. De Castries was a classmate of Hollande’s at the elite Ecole Nationale d’Administration; Serge Weinberg, chairman of pharmaceutical giant Sanofi (SAN:FP) and a signatory of the Oct. 28 letter, used to work for Socialist Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius.

The problems they’re complaining about aren’t new. Heavy taxes and social charges required to support high government spending have eroded corporate profitability. In the l’Express interview, de Castries says that on average, the government charges incurred by his company for each employee are more than double the employee’s take-home pay. French labor costs are the second-highest in Europe, after Belgium, as companies are burdened with rigid and devilishly complicated work rules. No surprise, then, that operating margins at French companies have shrunk almost 40 percent over the past decade, while those of companies in Germany—where painful labor-market reforms were carried out—have risen about 40 percent.

No worries though, as their economy tanks further they'll make up the revenue and save money on health care costs with a "Nutella tax." (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/france-goes-after-fatty-snacks-nutella-tax)

You have lost me, what does la belle France have to do with anything. Any french solution is uniquely french

52% of the vote isn't whooping up on anyone since there was massive vote fraud in swing states... that pushed his numbers that high.

Voting fraud in the US, now there is a new one. I expect you will conveniently find a lot of defective voting machines

Voting fraud in the US, now there is a new one. I expect you will conveniently find a lot of defective voting machines
DO you have to present ID to vote in Australia? The dems have fought to allow anyone that shows up to vote without any proof of who they are...

That's why and how the fraud happens... and a required Photo ID would stop most of it.

http://watchdogwire.com/blog/2012/10/24/new-video-shows-son-of-rep-moran-d-va-encouraging-voter-fraud/

Keep in mind he is the son of a 11 term member of the House or Representatives Jim Moran and the Nephew of the DNC Chairman for the state of Virginia... he is not a nobody...

He didn't make a slip of the tongue.. he went on and on and on and on... in the video I linked

DO you have to present ID to vote in Austrailia? The dems have fought to allow anyone that shows up to vote without any proof of who they are....

thats why and how the fraud happens...and a required Photo ID would stop most of it.

New Video Shows Son Of Rep. Moran (D-VA) Encouraging Voter Fraud (http://watchdogwire.com/blog/2012/10/24/new-video-shows-son-of-rep-moran-d-va-encouraging-voter-fraud/)

Keep in mind he is the son of a 11 term member of the House or Representatives Jim Moran and the Nephew of the DNC Chairman for the state of Virginia...he is not a nobody....

he didn't make a slip of the tongue..he went on and on and on and on....in the video I linked

No I don't need ID to vote. I just need to identify myself and be marked off the roll. I am given a registration card but who knows where it is after all these years. We have photo ID drivers licenses should there be any question. At some point in the process we have proven our identity and it is taken on face value from that point. The incidence of voter fraud is low here, it comes with compulsory voting, the opportunities are fewer. If my name showed up more than once they might get upset about it

No I don't need ID to vote. I just need to identify myself and be marked off the roll. I am given a registration card but who knows where it is after all these years. We have photo ID drivers licenses should there be any question. At some point in the process we have proven our identity and it is taken on face value from that point. The incidence of voter fraud is low here, it comes with compulsory voting, the opportunities are fewer. If my name showed up more than once they might get upset about it

Favorite tactic they use and have for a VERY long time... is using dead people s names to register... or using names of people in nursing homes who shall we say... aren't exactly in control of their facillities due to old age or medical problems... and vote for them.

If they never have to present a Photo ID nobody would be wise unless they actually really, REALLY check the voter rolls or someone who happened to know them saw them do it...

The parties are strong here on visitation and arranging postal votes, who checks content I don't know, but we have a fairly tight register of births, deaths, etc and it is linked to the electoral rolls. The electoral process is a federal process here, tightly administered and as it is compulsory, the process checks and you are fined if you don't vote. We don't have your machine led sophistication but we also don't appear to have the problems. It is the same with electoral boundries, we don't often get allegations of gerrymandering at least not in the southern states, the way the system works is different and harder to rig

You have lost me, what does la belle France have to do with anything. Any french solution is uniquely french

You're easily lost for an accountant.

You're easily lost for an accountant.Why not just answer him instead of insulting him?

Why not just answer him instead of insulting him?

Why not troll someone else for a while?

I find it ridicule the repubs are hollering voter fraud. I mean 2 million cheater? Really? Even 10 thousand is ludicrous, considering we also check the names off here before you vote.

Its one thing to say WE out cheated YOU, and another to prove your outlandish claims since it's the STATES that are responsible for maintenance of voter registration rolls, and republican governors are lousy at it. Especially Florida (AGAIN).

Romney is blaming the gifts to minorities for the turnout, doubling down on his 47% comments, which was a big reason for his downfall in the first place.

Hello tal:


Romney is blaming the gifts to minorities If Romney had won, I'd be blaming HIM for the gifts he was promising to give to the rich.

Excon

Why not troll someone else for a while?What did you find offensive about my question?

Hello tal:

If Romney had won, I'd be blaming HIM for the gifts he was promising to give to the rich.

excon

Like giving the market a chance to create jobs instead of penalizing the job creators?

Hello again, Steve:

That's what you SAY.. It's what Romney SAID. However, that notion has been UNDENIABLY REPUDIATED by a MAJORITY of the voters in this great nation of ours. I don't think that trickle down crap will EVER be raised again.

excon

The market wasn't creating jobs on main street, just in foreign countries, and those were low paying sweat shops. That's since Bush was elected. Even Walmart fortune depend on sweat shops, low wage and tax breaks to be profitable.

Wall Street and the so called job creators have always put profits over people and created personal wealth for themselves, and trickled down whatever they could to the rest. Guess you have forgot they caused this economic global mess, but have not been adversely affected thanks to US, and have been VERY slow to be part of the solution.

They were waiting for Romney to give them more money, for even less work. That is no longer an option, is it? Maybe its time they earned that "job creator" title they spout so much.

Romney is blaming the gifts to minorities for the turnout, doubling down on his 47% comments, which was a big reason for his downfall in the first place.

If all 47 million food stamp recipients voted for President Obama, it would account for 75.4 percent of Obama's 62.3 million votes.

Hello again, tom:

And, your problem with people voting in themselves interest is what?

excon

Hello again, Steve:

That's what you SAY.. It's what Romney SAID. However, that notion has been UNDENIABLY REPUDIATED by a MAJORITY of the voters in this great nation of ours. I don't think that trickle down crap will EVER be raised again.

excon

I said nothing about "trickle down," I said get out of the way. I'm no accountant like Clete is, but I do know you aren't going to grow the economy from the bottom up and by expanding the welfare state.

I also don't know get you guys' idea of freedom. One minute you whine about getting government out of your life so you can smoke weed, marry who you want or kill your baby, the next you're demanding government involvement in everything else.

Obama didn't make them poor, but Romney would keep them poor, he said so! Do the math.

Hello again, tom:

And, your problem with people voting in their self interest is what?

excon

I think we should all just suck off the government teat, don't you?

Hello again, Steve:

We know you despise the 47%. Romney does too. That's why he LOST. I suppose if it were up to you, they couldn't vote.

Tell me, are you going to take your free "stuff" and suck off the government teat when you turn 65? Of course you are, hypocrite.

excon

Hello again, Steve:

We know you despise the 47%. Romney does too. That's why he LOST. I suppose if it were up to you, they couldn't vote.

Tell me, are you gonna take your free "stuff" and suck off the government teat when you turn 65? Of course you are, hypocrite.

excon

Would you like to just keep lying about us or are you interested in dialogue? I love the poor, I help the poor - but I have no respect for able-bodied people unwilling to lift a finger to help themselves. And hopefully when I'm 65 I'll be able to draw from what I paid for all those decades. If it's free why the hell does the government take money out of my every check?

That's not free stuff . That's insurance policies we are forced to contribute into. Oh wait ;that's right... SCOTUS just confirmed it's a tax.. never mind.

Maybe these workers bringing down their company will get free government cupcakes .

Hostess CEO gives striking workers Thursday deadline - kwch.com (http://www.kwch.com/business/kwch-hostess-ceo-gives-striking-workers-thursday-deadline-20121114,0,2860295.story)

Maybe these workers bringing down their company will get free government cupcakes .

Hostess CEO gives striking workers Thursday deadline - kwch.com (http://www.kwch.com/business/kwch-hostess-ceo-gives-striking-workers-thursday-deadline-20121114,0,2860295.story)

If they'd start making all fat-free, flavor-free products they could probably get a government bailout.

Hello again, Steve:


but I have no respect for able-bodied people unwilling to lift a finger to help themselves.Me neither.. But, that's about 10% of the people - NOT 47%! You guys really DO have trouble with ARITHMETIC.

Excon

How do you know it is even 10% Ex, do you start making assumptions about minorities or various parts of the country. Look we all know someone who is shiftless and won't try because they have been knocked back too many times, but people also have to have opportunity, it's no good saying move, because that costs money and you still don't know if you will be better off. To do as Romney did and write off 47% of the country is straight out prejudice.

What the Republicans should be doing is fighting for jobs, stopping the exodus to China and India. Surely you have plenty of cheap labour somewhere over there, with 8% unemployment there has to be someone who wants a job, or maybe not.

Yeah that'll work . You're too smart to not know the consequences of protectionism.

Not at all Tom I grew up in a time of protectionism when we had full employment and our manufacturing industries made everything, high quality, I know the benefits of protectionism, it might be a little more expensive but we aren't beholding to anyone. Back in those days we had a strategic view, we knew the possibilities of being cut off from supply. We have lots of people we can't employ now because those industries are gone. Free Trade is rubbish, and we were fool enough to fall for your line, and our industries have been decimated.

You guys wonder why I am not impressed by the way you operate, it is because as a student of economics I see what has been done. Destruction of our industries because we have reduced protection, now we are flooded with cheap imports and yankee culture and the worst part is, you didn't really benefit, you are in worse shape then we are

Hello again, Steve:

Me neither.. But, that's about 10% of the people - NOT 47%! You guys really DO have trouble with ARITHMETIC.

excon

You pulling numbers out of your butt is no different than Romney. But just for the sake of arithmetic, the champion of the middle class is adding more of them to the ranks of the poor (http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-11-15/census-new-gauge-shows-high-of-49-dot-7m-poor-in-us).

protectionism is for the lazy who don't want or can't compete in the market. Ultimately it does hurt your consumers who could get better value for their money ;and probably better quality in the open market. The way we handle it is... Americans want to buy Toyotas . So we make deals with Toyota to build a plant or 2 here. Back in Japan that's called job outsourcing . For the same reason ,if US automakers want to tap into the Chinese market ,it's reasonable that they make the product there .It benefits both countries.

Obama isn't the one who has closed plants here for 30 years and sent them over seas, big business has and it was facilitated by giving them the money and the tax breaks to do it with.

Americans cannot compete with the lax work rules and cheap slave labor of other countries, but the solution isn't to make us like them is it? Seems so since it destroyed the middle class.

Don't worry, those foreign slaves will wake up and want a raise just like we did. And the business model will change there too!

Obama isn't the one who has closed plants here for 30 years and sent them over seas, big business has and it was facilitated by giving them the money and the tax breaks to do it with.

Americans cannot compete with the lax work rules and cheap slave labor of other countries, but the solution isn't to make us like them is it? Seems so since it destroyed the middle class.

Don't worry, those foreign slaves will wake up and want a raise just like we did. And the business model will change there too!

Raises come from making money for your employer..

Raises come from making money for your employer..
But if you can keep your employees uneducated (as they have always been) and in the dark that such things exist, you can keep those profits for yourself. That's part of the reason for the Arab Spring -- people are figuring out that they aren't getting their cut of profits.

Raises come from making money for your employer..

Oh really? That's how coal miners and waitresses get raises?

But if you can keep your employees uneducated (as they have always been) and in the dark that such things exist, you can keep those profits for yourself. That's part of the reason for the Arab Spring -- people are figuring out that they aren't getting their cut of profits.

I'm sure those 18,000 laid off Hostess workers are happy to be educated.

Oh really? Thats how coal miners and waitresses get raises?

I thought you guys liked arithmetic this week. It's basic math, in spite of the lies liberals put out about it, you don't get something for nothing (http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2010/09/01/something_for_nothing/page/2).

I'm sure those 18,000 laid off Hostess workers are happy to be educated.Would they not have been out of work if Romney was elected president?

Would they not have been out of work if Romney was elected president?

Irrelevant to the point.

The Teamsters approved the deal . The rank and file shot themselves in the foot . Maybe with expanded unemployment benefits ;free government cheese food stamps and Obamaphones they think they are getting a better deal.

Irrelevant to the point.
It's totally relevant. The business closing has nothing to do with politics no matter how much you bleat about it.

They bought 4 years of unemployement benefits when they voted for Obama... now none of them have to get up early to bake or deliver anything.

They can eat until the job creators do their job.

They had jobs but they got greedy .

I thought you guys liked arithmetic this week. It's basic math, in spite of the lies liberals put out about it, you don't get something for nothing (http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2010/09/01/something_for_nothing/page/2).

Its YOU guys who say people get something for nothing, but real working people know it's a trade off.

So does big business, what your point?

It's totally relevant. The business closing has nothing to do with politics no matter how much you bleat about it.

The point was about "educated" workers, not politics, making your post irrelevant to the point.

Its YOU guys who say people get something for nothing, but real working people know its a trade off.

So does big business, what your point?

You asked, I answered. Try and keep up.

Steve,
The Hostess thing was brought up way before that https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/community-organizer-whups-up-businessman-715382-8.html#post3325378
Try to keep up.

Nothing said about the company in Illinois closing and moving to China. Just nit picking of the facts to make an argument.

Steve,
The Hostess thing was brought up way before that https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/community-organizer-whups-up-businessman-715382-8.html#post3325378
Try to keep up.

Since mine was the first response to that I would know. Try and keep up.

These threads are quite pointless aren't they.
They are echo chambers.

How long did it take you to realise that

LOL, quite a while ago. It's fun to call them on their talking points now and then though.

It all does tend to drone on and on like a dog with a bone, can't someone bring some finality

LOL, quite a while ago. It's fun to call them on their talking points now and then though.

The same can be said by us about your side too.

I'm sure it could, my response to crap is likely to be in the same vein

The same can be said by us about your side too.I don't have a "side".

I don't have a "side".
And the sun isn't a hot place too.

New Obama bumper sticker :
'Osama bin Laden is dead... and so are Twinkies '


Yahooo!! Twinkies are saved!! But they are outsourced :

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada-spared-as-twinkie-maker-hostess-files-for-ch-11-1.752048

Why are you linking the Hostess situation with Obama?

Why does Obama still blame Bush for everything?

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/318774_4102885366787_238545309_n.jpg

How quickly the Democrats forget their past...

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/523323_3960325082869_80724304_n.jpg
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/579837_3934066106411_430076710_n.jpg

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/542422_3801630435602_456720758_n.jpg

As I said long ago stuck in an eighteenth century time warp

as I said long ago stuck in an eighteenth century time warp

Why don't you move to a communist country if you like socialism so much.


I seem to remember you guys have been effectively disarmed by your paranoid politicians.

Our system has worked VERY well... thats why it has lasted so long... what has NEVER worked in the history of mankind was ANY form of socialism... or communism.

For the basic reason... you eventually run out of other peoples money.

Why don't you move to a communist country if you like socialism so much.
Why it is much more fun in an unplanned economy like this one


I seem to remember you guys have been effectively disarmed by your paranoid politicians.
I don't know what you mean, our military spending is on par with the rest of the world, and we can own guns, we just can't own military weapons. However unlike yourselves most of us choose not to, because we don't expect to be confronted by some nutcase with a gun. We collectively thought it was a good idea to remove military weapons from the general population when a nutcase murdered many and no prizes for guessing we have not had a similar even since, now you on the other hand can't say that


Our system has worked VERY well... thats why it has lasted so long... what has NEVER worked in the history of mankind was ANY form of socialism... or communism.

For the basic reason... you eventually run out of other peoples money.

Yes and guess who ran out first, your system has worked well to enrich the few and impoverish the many, it worked best when it was fuelled by slave labour, you keep forgetting that these people you revere so much were slave owners, exploiters and their policy was to enrich themselves. Your system worked well until you made the fatal mistake of putting your means of production in the hands of the communists

You see what is interesting is that our system hasn't run out of money and yours has. We might argue about how the money is spent but we still have the ability to spend it for the public, not private, good

as I said long ago stuck in an eighteenth century time warp

As if no one ever looks to the past for wisdom? The bible? Confucius? Socrates? Plato? Aristotle?

More on Obamacare and its effects (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/the_ers_74rfAHiGtYU2nHmnlIhotL)...


Shortly after Nov. 6, Zane Tankel, who runs 40 Applebee’s restaurants in the New York City area, announced that his company was freezing employment and would not build any new restaurants. President Obama’s re-election, Tankel explained, meant that ObamaCare was likely to be fully implemented, costing his company millions of dollars and significantly raising the cost of hiring a worker.

Tankel’s statement prompted outrage and threats of a boycott, but he was far from alone. Already John Schnatter, CEO of Papa John’s Pizza, has announced that he would likely lay off some workers. Earlier, Schnatter said that ObamaCare would cost his business $5 billion to $8 billion annually, forcing him to increase the price of pizzas.

Meanwhile, two other restaurant chains, Olive Garden and Red Lobster, are moving many of their employees from full- to part-time work in order to avoid the law’s mandate that anyone working more than 30 hours must have insurance. An owner of 40 Denny’s in Florida, meanwhile, says he’ll add a 5% surcharge to customer bills in 2014 to cover his increased costs.

While restaurants, with traditionally low profit margins and large numbers of low-skilled, low-wage workers, are exceptionally vulnerable to ObamaCare’s costs, other business are being hit too. For example, Boston Scientific has announced that it will now lay off up to 1,400 workers and shift some jobs to China.

And Dana Holdings, an auto-parts manufacturer with more than 25,000 employees, says it to is exploring ObamaCare-related layoffs.

It goes on to note that a study suggested 18% of companies would follow suit... I think it may be higher. But who knew Obamacare would be a great outsourcer?