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View Full Version : Is My Boyfriend Naïve or In Denial?


Bluntress
Oct 11, 2012, 12:06 AM
My boyfriend has a tendency to do seemingly inambiguous, inappropriate things that makes me and even others upset and he always blame it on either his lack of knowledge or his miscommunication or his good intention gone awry or that he didn't think it was a big deal.

We have been together for a year now and I am very happy with him. However, we did have major issues that we've had talked about in the past. I just want to make sure that he has matured out of his naïveté or he has just been in denial this whole time...

But first, here's a little bit about us. We met on a dating website. He was from the other side of the country when he messaged me online. I asked him if he knew that we were 900 miles away and his reply was so genuine and sweet. He said that he didn't care, he will cover any distance to find the one. So we started talking and he flew to visit me a couple of times. In two months, he told me that he was taking a semester off from school because of monetary reasons and wanted to move in with me until next Fall. After a lot of deliberation, I agreed to let him live with me. FYI, he's 4 years older than me and was a Marine. He's a veteran in college.

Here are some examples of the things he's done:

1. I gave him a job with my best friend. One day, she came over for breakfast and he went to work before she did, I was hanging out with her when he called me and the first thing he said was, "Is --- there? I forgot to say goodbye. Can you tell her to have an awesome day for me?" First of all, he saw her in the morning and was going to see her later at work that day and he couldn't wait to greet her in person and felt compelled to call his girlfriend to leave a message for her best friend. That pissed me off because it made me think he was trying to be cute to her and snide to me. I later had a serious talk with him and told him that his actions were nonsensical and made me think he thought of my best friend way too much and that I can't be with him since he obviously likes my best friend. His defense was that he was simply trying to be nice and make a good impression since she's my best friend.

2. At the beginning of our relationship, we were reading questions from a dating book for fun. The question was, "Besides your spouse who else would be your ideal mate?" I said some crush I had in high school. His answer was his present best "girl" friend who is gorgeous and also someone he admitted to having had a crush on in the past and having an attraction for. I was extremely upset because she was prettier than me and his best "girl" friend who he's known much longer. He also said she was his first friend in college and first female friend ever and in the first year, they were inseparable, that everyone thought they were dating and how his mother thought so too. He also used to talk about her a lot and tended to repeat the same praises for her. I told him that I thought he still likes her, but he said that she was kind of promiscuous and he could have had her easily, but chose not to.

3. One of his friends confided in me that when my boyfriend broke up with his ex, he started to date her with his permission, but then my boyfriend at the time decided to move back in with his ex as "friends" because the location was more convenient and his ex broke up with his friend even though my boyfriend's intentions were not to get back together. Ever since then, his friend has had a grudge on him for cockblocking him.

4. One time, we ordered burgers at the counter. We were supposed to pick it up. There were no waiters, however, he tipped anyway and it made me think it was because the cashier was cute. He denies the claim and said he tips randomly even if there is no service.

5. He used to only hang with his female friends alone and paid for their meals to be a "gentleman" he said. None of them know each other. And when he, his brother, and I had lunch with one of his gorgeous female friends, his brother and I sat bored most of the time while they caught up. And the didn't even try to talk to me when I tried to make conversation. Her eyes were on him the whole time. And when it was time to pay, the didn't even bother to open her purse. I paid for the whole table anyway to be nice and she didn't even thank me at first when his brother thanked me the minute the waiter took my card. No, she struck a 30 minute conversation with only my boyfriend and his brother and I sat twiddling our thumbs after I already paid. She waited till we were in the parking lot getting into our cars before she thanked me like a ing side note. And most of his female friends act like I don't exist. I told him that he needed to stop giving his "girl" friends "girlfriend privileges" or else they're going to keep treating him like he's their platonic "boyfriend." I also told him to stop paying for his "girl" friends' meals because it's unnecessary and leaves a wrong impression. He objected at first because he thought it was a "gentlemanly" thing to do, but decided to abide to make me happy. Eventually he agreed what he did was wrong and the reason why his female friends treat me like a threat.

6. We met up at his friend's house with a bunch of his friends and we all agreed that we weren't hungry, but could get some frozen yogurt. My boyfriend whined that he didn't want to drive again because he had driven all day. So we stayed and played games. We were waiting on his best "girl"friend and her boyfriend to show up when she called and said she was hungry and at some restaurant that we (a party of 6) should join her. All of a sudden, my boyfriend was fine with driving along with everyone else and we had dinner even though none of us were hungry... except her. I thought that was ridiculous.

7. A few times my boyfriend has forgotten me and left me to walk by myself for a few minutes because he was busy talking to mutual female friends. I find it odd that our mutual female friends were always attached to their boyfriends and my boyfriend forgets about me when their pretty faces are around.

8. My boyfriend claims that he hates make up and never want me to shape my eyebrows, but all of the women he's found attractive wore make up and has perfect eyebrows. I'm the only one who doesn't have either. I don't know if that proves his case or not because I'm still wondering if he's just naive/genuine or in denial/a liar.

It's been a year and I've gotten over my justified jealousy and he's made a lot of changes. However, his excuses were never good and he only got away with his past errors with pure conviction. I had made a big life decision to move with him when he moved back home and I just want to figure out if he is and was just naïve about these things or in denial before I'd have to give another lifechanging answer.

joypulv
Oct 11, 2012, 12:36 AM
It might be good to try to summarize these long tales into something about how you find him to be a combination of naïve and inappropriately eager to please other women. Try to reduce the anecdotes.
I wonder about 2 things: one is your statement that you are 'very happy with him' in light of all this. The other is your statement that you 'just want to make sure that he has matured out of his naivete' or has been in denial. That second one has me worried. It has tones of control and assumption in it. First it's an either-or statement that might not be true, and it also assumes that his behavior must be stopped. You want it stopped. Others, you say, have complained about it. But it's not the place of any of you to pass judgment on it, because he's not in a realm of wrong such as violence or deceit or crime. He's just annoyingly eager to please too many women at once. So you either accept it or leave it, unless HE is willing to work on it with you for the sake of your relationship.
For a healthy relationship, try to talk in terms of how you feel and how you find him, not describe how he IS as fact. You say 'past errors' and so on, describing HIM. We don't have proof of any past errors, and aren't hearing his story. Write in terms of how YOU feel, what you need, what you want from him, not what is wrong with him.
One last thing: I know this is easy for me to say, but I'll say it anyway - there is no justifiable complaint about issues like eyebrows when you should be doing what you want with your eyebrows. That's all part of the whole Don't Try To Mold Each Other. Relationships often seem to take 3 steps, Please Each Other, Mold Each Other, Resent Each Other. Then you fall off the stairs.

Fr_Chuck
Oct 11, 2012, 02:30 AM
It appears he has a improper attention to other women. You and he needs to set down and discuss these and other guidelines. It appears he still acts single.

So has he got back to school, as a Marine he should have benefits that pay for all his school plus a check to go to school on. Or has he not went back to school since he moved in.

Does he pay undue attention to all pretty girls, or just some.

As for as tipping and flirting many guys just do that, but too much attention, or calling you to talk to the other girl, was not proper.

I can't believe anyone would not see this as wrong

Bluntress
Oct 11, 2012, 09:59 AM
It might be good to try to summarize these long tales into something about how you find him to be a combination of naive and inappropriately eager to please other women. Try to reduce the anecdotes.
I wonder about 2 things: one is your statement that you are 'very happy with him' in light of all this. The other is your statement that you 'just want to make sure that he has matured out of his naivete' or has been in denial. That second one has me worried. It has tones of control and assumption in it. First it's an either-or statement that might not be true, and it also assumes that his behavior must be stopped. You want it stopped. Others, you say, have complained about it. But it's not the place of any of you to pass judgment on it, because he's not in a realm of wrong such as violence or deceit or crime. He's just annoyingly eager to please too many women at once. So you either accept it or leave it, unless HE is willing to work on it with you for the sake of your relationship.
For a healthy relationship, try to talk in terms of how you feel and how you find him, not describe how he IS as fact. You say 'past errors' and so on, describing HIM. We don't have proof of any past errors, and aren't hearing his story. Write in terms of how YOU feel, what you need, what you want from him, not what is wrong with him.
One last thing: I know this is easy for me to say, but I'll say it anyway - there is no justifiable complaint about issues like eyebrows when you should be doing what you want with your eyebrows. That's all part of the whole Don't Try To Mold Each Other. Relationships often seem to take 3 steps, Please Each Other, Mold Each Other, Resent Each Other. Then you fall off the stairs.

Thank you, that was very sound advice! I appreciate it. Are you a professional psychologist? I will talk to my boyfriend about the 3 steps that makes us "fall off the stairs." Because he does try to "please" me a lot, but also other women. I guess it's in his nature. It took me a while to understand that he's not a "womanizer" or "slut," but just a "pleaser" like a golden retriever. Since I met him online, it took me a long time to trust him because he did so many "weird" things. The first one was being adamant about moving in with me in two months when we had a long distance relationship the whole time. (I thought he would just move to my city, but into his own place first, or at least, I would have been more comfortable with that, but no. He persuaded me well.) The jump from long distance to living together was life changing because I knew that I would have another life to take care of. He kept saying that he won't be dependent and he'll find a job, but he underestimated the economy and I ended up having to give him a job and when he lost that one because the boss died, he was too naïve and told employers at interviews that he was not looking for a long term position because he was moving out of state in a few months. I got really mad at him because he couldn't comprehend the gray in right and wrong. Sure, he shouldn't lie, but also, he couldn't get a job by not lying which means I had to pay for all the bills, food, and rent. By the way, he never could have helped me with rent because he never made enough. He had his own bills to pay. It wasn't just with the subject of women that he exerted a sense of naïveté, so it calmed my mind a little bit that maybe he's just immature in the relationship/civilian life department. However, that also makes me worry because if he's not well experienced with understanding his own feelings, my biggest fear is that he showed "attraction" or "favor" for all those women in the past not because he was naïve, but because that's how he truly felt and the naïve part was just him not understanding his own feelings. He is a very principled man and when he tells me that he doesn't like make up, but all of the crushes he's ever had and all of his female friends are drop dead gorgeous who doll themselves up all the time, it makes me wonder if he doesn't even know that he likes it. It's not just make up, but the fact that he finds them more attractive despite the make up. I'm just afraid that if I marry this man, he's going to "grow up" and "realize" what he truly wants and that may not be me. I'm only his second girlfriend. He lost his virginity at 24. I feel like every single person gets in this phase where they want to date multiple people before they can settle and what if his phase comes in between our future marriage? That would piss me off.

Bluntress
Oct 11, 2012, 10:04 AM
it appears he has a improper attention to other women. You and he needs to set down and discuss these and other guidelines. It appears he still acts single.

So has he got back to school, as a Marine he should have benefits that pay for all his school plus a check to go to school on. Or has he not went back to school since he moved in.

Does he pay undue attention to all pretty girls, or just some.

As for as tipping and flirting many guys just do that, but too much attention, or calling you to talk to the other girl, was not proper.

I can't beleive anyone would not see this as wrong

Thank you for seeing that it wasn't "proper." I was appalled when he did that. Unfortunately, my best friend is just as naïve as him so she didn't think it was a big deal. It makes me wonder if I let them go on their merry way, would they develop feelings for each other? Sometimes, I feel like I work too hard to explain to him every single time that he does something out of the line, that it is not appropriate because of "this, this and this." Do I have to do this? But every time I talk to him, he is always adamant about loving me and that he only wants to please me and whatever he did, he either forgot or just didn't think much of it. But I want to know the truth and I seriously don't think even he knows it. He's so "friendly" to the point of "flirting" and he doesn't even "see" it. What if he emotionally cheats on me and doesn't even know it! It is FRUSTRATING.

joypulv
Oct 11, 2012, 10:23 AM
Chances are he really doesn't know what he's doing.
Chances are you will never know some truth that doesn't exist past what he doesn't realize.
I think everyone emotionally cheats (if we are talking about fantasy). My brilliant ex and a lot of his brilliant friends were always openly enamored of a certain brilliant woman, but he told me in his usual totally ingenuous way that he wouldn't 'touch her with a 10 foot pole.' I think a lot of people really do love the person they feel most comfortable with, even if they stray mentally towards a bit of excitement at times, without following through. It just adds something to the daily dose of adrenaline (as opposed to testosterone?) that people need to get through life.

What DO you like about this man? How long has he been without a job since the boss died? How can he pick up the tab in restaurants if he's broke? Where is he going 'in a few months;' back to school? How is that possible if he left for monetary reasons? Do you have a good sense of his financial situation? Something doesn't add up, pun intended.

Bluntress
Oct 11, 2012, 10:46 AM
Chances are he really doesn't know what he's doing.
Chances are you will never know some truth that doesn't exist past what he doesn't realize.
I think everyone emotionally cheats (if we are talking about fantasy). My brilliant ex and a lot of his brilliant friends were always openly enamored of a certain brilliant woman, but he told me in his usual totally ingenuous way that he wouldn't 'touch her with a 10 foot pole.' I think a lot of people really do love the person they feel most comfortable with, even if they stray mentally towards a bit of excitement at times, without following through. It just adds something to the daily dose of adrenaline (as opposed to testosterone?) that people need to get through life.

What DO you like about this man? How long has he been without a job since the boss died? How can he pick up the tab in restaurants if he's broke? Where is he going 'in a few months;' back to school? How is that possible if he left for monetary reasons? Do you have a good sense of his financial situation? Something doesn't add up, pun intended.

Okay, I guess as long as he's a great boyfriend despite his mishaps, I shouldn't worry.

To answer your questions, I love him because he is everything I've ever wanted.. but he also has more than I've ever wanted. I guess nobody's perfect. That is the only reason why I'm still with him because despite his naïveté, he's perfect for me and I for him (or so he says). We just agree on almost every level - we have the same opinions on almost everything. He is sweet, but sometimes too sweet. He is a pleaser, but sometimes too much of one. He has no cunning bone in his body, but sometimes I wish he had some tact. For example, he and I both hate his friend who is an (but he feels obliged to hang out with him because my boyfriend's so frickin' nice) and everybody wonders why his friend still has a girlfriend of 5 years. One day, his friend's girlfriend came over to do homework with my boyfriend. We were taking a break and having lunch when my boyfriend mentioned, "Oh hey honey, you should be happy to know that (her boyfriend) fell of his bike and hurt himself." First of all, it was my first time meeting his friend's girlfriend and I didn't want her to think I was a for not liking her boyfriend. I just thought that was tactless because he didn't have to tell it to me in front of her and now she hates me. And this is ONE incident. I also wish he would have told his parents that it was HIS idea to move up with me and MY IDEA for him to stay long enough to spend Christmas with his family because he hates his extended family and wanted to move with me before the holidays. But nope, he never mentioned it to help me out a little bit to get on his parents' good side. He told me that nobody he knew thought moving in with some girl he met online was a good idea, and I don't blame them! But I wish he'd help my cause as his girlfriend by clarifying certain things that might be put against me otherwise.

As for the reason why he took a semester off to be with me, he told me that his GI Bill pays for his tuition, but he is nearing his senior year and he was late registering for classes and all of the classes he "needed " were full and he didn't want to waste his GI bill on classes he didn't need. He also failed a few classes in the past, so he really needed to choose wisely. Hence, his idea to move in with me to "grow the relationship" and see where it goes while he waits for next semester. I thought it was a good idea after a lot of deliberation because I really didn't like the long distance - I missed him too much. So I figured, I'd rather have him too close than too far. :) And thankfully, it worked out with a LOT of hard work.

You should be happy to know that he has moved back to go to school and I have chosen to move with him. Now, I am the one underemployed, haha, and he is taking care of me very well. I'm just depressed because where we are, there is no public transportation - I came from a big city and I had 2-3 jobs and I was able to go wherever I pleased. Now, I'm stuck in the house most days and it's really hard for me to find full time work that fits into his schedule since he has school and work now.

dontknownuthin
Oct 11, 2012, 11:09 AM
I guess my take on this is not so much "what does it mean" but, "is this the guy for you?" At a minimum, you are with a man who loves the company of many women, at least as friends. This makes you suspicious and uncomfortable. There are a great many men who date women and maintain friendships with men, and there's a hard line drawn. I think you would be happier with that kind of man. Also, there are many men who go the extra mile to see to it that the woman they love is safe, protected and feels special. This man doesn't and he won't change. You've seen some things in him that don't do it for you.

The thing is, you're choosing a mate - you are seeking your spouse and perhaps the father of your eventual children. Whether you are right or wrong or indifferent to suspect him of cheating or to feel jealous, insecure or simply annoyed by the things you itemized in this post, he's not meeting your needs. You don't have to be right about everything. What you have to do is learn from your dating relationships what you like and need in a relationship - this guy isn't the one.

It sounds to me that you need a "man's man" - the guy who hangs with his buddies when he's not with his girl. And you need an old-fashioned gentleman who is going to make you feel special by doing those little things - opening doors, making sure you get home safely and so on. You CAN have that, but this guy will never be that man.

I think it's time for him to move out, and for you to add a few things to your "list" for the next guy. This is the point of dating - don't feel badly about it. You wanted to know each other better, now you do. You don't have to hate him to recognize that he's wrong for you.

joypulv
Oct 11, 2012, 11:59 AM
(don'tknow, I think you will composing while she explained that she has moved back to his town to live with him while he goes back to school... so now she's the one who made the Big Leap.)

I hope you know how to drive and can buy a cheap car soon, not only to look for work but also to get out of the house. Or rent one - there are some good monthly deals, or weekly. Why does a job you get have to fit into his schedule? Sounds impossible and not really necessary, unless you mean so he can drive you.