Hi, I purchased my home a few years ago as a foreclosure. It has 4.5 bathrooms. It has a one inch main line coming in that branches off to 3/4 inch lines to the fixtures throughout the home. During our time here, we have never been able to run two fixtures at full strength at the same time. There is a pressure gauge at the meter and it goes from 60 psi with no fixtures open, to 40-50 psi with one open and down to 20 psi when a second is open. We have had a number of people out there including the water department and no one has been able to help. The main water line is about 500 feet long from the shut off in the street to the shut off in the house and I was told it is copper. My town is known for hard water so I believe the line might be clogged with manganese or some other mineral shrinking the inside diameter of the line. First, does this make sense as a possibility? Second, is there anything I can do to fix it without having to replace the entire line? As you can imagine, the quotes I have been getting have been very expensive ($15k+) to replace the line so I would prefer to fix this if possible. Any ideas?? Thanks!

I believe the line might be clogged with manganese or some other mineral shrinking the inside diameter of the line. BINGO! Want to sign on here as a plumbing expert ? This sure sounds like a volume problem to me. How old is the house and what material are the pipes? You're thinking service line while I'm thinking house piping,
Was the service line checked for clogs? The estimate 15K+ sounds a tad pricy to replace the copper with PVC. How deep would the line have to be dug?

is there anything I can do to fix it No! Replacement is the only repair.
Here's what I would do. I would have the service line checked for any obstruction caused by mineral buildup. If your guys don't know how to do this I can walk them through it. If the live checks out the house is next. One more time. How old is the house and what material are the pipes? Back to you, Tom

Hi Tom,

Haha... I was a plumber's apprentice for about a week and a half. A couple broken toilets later and I was out of the field. I'll stick to my day job.

I was thinking volume as well. The pressure should be fine, it just sounds like somewhere the line is clogged and water is not getting through. The home was built in 1986 according to public records. I thought the water department told me copper but when I just went down to check, it looks like a 1" black plastic (PVC?) line coming in to the home. It is marked at 160 psi Supply Line. I would think house piping would be a better issue to have then service line, right? At least that way I would not need to dig up my yard. The clog would need to be in the main supply line inside the house then if it is affecting all of the fixtures, right? Neither the service line nor the house lines were checked for clogs. I just thought through it and figured that might be the problem. Is there any way I can check for clogs myself? The $15k price was from a friend of mine and he did not even want to tackle the job. He recommended I call a local plumber (he is about 30 minutes away) but said not to do it if it is anymore than that (the last local plumber I had charged $150/hour plus $75/hour for an "apprentice" just to install a single piece of baseboard heat). The house is about 500 feet from the street and the line would need to be dug 6 feet deep and would cross under a brook (4 feet deep itself). I have no idea what type of labor/machinery would be required so I can not gauge the cost per hour.

I am hoping it is an interior clog and I do not have to replace the line as I am really concerned about the cost of replacing it (not to mention my lawn being ripped apart). Any help you could give me on how to check the service line or the interior lines for clogs would be greatly appreciated. The home is about 26 years old, the service line appears to be plastic or PVC and the interior is all copper (3/4" lines throughout except they go to 1/2 when entering fixtures.

Thanks again for all of your help!

Matt

If the service line were galvanized I'd think it might be the service line but plastic doesn't build up iron oxide, (rust). But there's enough money involved to make sure. Where does the service enter the house. Is this a slab house or do you have a basement? Is there a hose bib directly off the service line. Let's have more details. Tom

Well that's (potentially) good news.

The home has a full basement. The line comes into the home about 6" off the ground and goes straight up for about a foot and a half to the main shut off (gate valve). After that it right angles into the meter and comes out into a 3/4" copper line. It goes from there to a pressure gauge into a pressure reducing valve to another shut off (ball valve) to another pressure gauge to a hose bib and then out to the rest of the house.

The first plumber thought the pressure reducing valve (the fact that there was one there I think shows the pressure was good at least at one point) was the issue. He came in and replaced it with a new pressure reducing valve and the gauges hoping that it would solve the issue but it did not.

I almost wonder if it could be the gate valve as I think I remember reading that they can sometimes clog with mineral build up. Do you think that is a possibility?

What does the first gage read? When running water inside the house does the first gage fall? If it does how much? What does the second pressure gage do while all this is going on? Back to you, Tom

So I did a little "experimentation" and came up with some interesting results. The first thing I noticed is that both pressure gauges read relatively the same as one another no matter what is opened. That leads me to believe the pressure reducing valve is not the problem. With no fixtures open, the gauges read 60 psi.

Now the interesting part (at least I think it is). I opened different faucets to see if they all changed the gauges the same. The first one I opened was the hose bib next to the gauges. Both gauges immediately dropped to just about 0 psi.

There are two faucets in the basement (Kitchen and bathroom sinks). When I opened up either one of them, the pressure dropped from 60 psi to 50 psi. When I opened up the kitchen sink on the 1st floor, the pressure dropped from 60 psi to 40 psi. The half bathroom on the first floor's sink drops the pressure from 60 psi to 50 psi. The bathroom sink on the second floor drops the pressure from 60 psi to about 48 psi. There are also two other bathrooms that are currently gutted so I could not test those fixtures. If I open any two at the same time, the pressure drops from 60 psi to between 20-30 psi depending on which two are opened. Also, I have two outside hose bibs and if either of those are opened the pressure drops from 60 psi to 20 psi (and almost to 0 psi if a second fixture is opened).

I'm not an expert at this so I don't know what to make of all of it but I found it interesting none the less. Does any of this information mean anything to you? If you need me to gather any additional information, just let me know. And, once again, thank you for all you have done thus far.

both pressure gauges read relatively the same as one another That doesn't make any sense to me.
After that it right angles into the meter and comes out into a 3/4" copper line. It goes from there to a pressure gauge into a pressure reducing valve to another shut off (ball valve) to another pressure gauge If that's your setup then the first pressure gage should read much higher then the second one, If they read the same the PRV is faulty. Could you clear that up for me?
Back to you, Tom,

It's adjustable. Since our pressure is only 60 psi coming in, we have it fully opened. It was just recently replaced so I can not imagine it is faulty alre

Please disregard my last comment. I'm not actually sure if it is adjustable or not. It's a watts direct action pressure reducing valve. The one that was in there before did the same thing. The plumber replaced it figuring that was the issue but it did not change anything.

Let's try this, Set the PRV back to 40 PSI and open three or four cold water faucets. What do the two gages read when you do this? If the service line's good there shouldn't be too much of a drop. We expect this with galvanized water service and house pip[ing but not with a plastic service line and copper piping. Very odd! Regards, Tom

I opened up the two lines in the basement and the two on the first floor. The gauges both read around 18 psi.

Too many things about this thread simply don't add up.
t. I'm not actually sure if it is adjustable or not You have a PRV that's made to adjust pressure and you've adjusted to a full flow and now you tell me you don't know if it can be adjusted. I find that odd.
You have a PRV installed on a water service where the city main is only 60 PSI. I find that very strange. I asked you to adjust the PRV back to 40 PSI and run the water. Had you done what I asked ghage#1 should read 60 PSI while gage #2 should read 40. That's if everything was working. Had the service line been clogged gage #1 would drop. I was attempting to isolate the clog. Now I'm in the dark as much as you.
Perhaps one of our other experts can chime ion and make some sense out of this. I'm stumped. I have a installation I can't make any sense out of and I don't feel like we're working in tandem on this. REgards, Tom

Hi Tom, I apologize for the confusion. I was not sure of whether it was adjustable because I tightened the bolt down that I thought would bring the pressure down but it did not do anything. That's why I retracted the statement. I'm not sure why there is even a prv in the home as I only have 60 psi coming into the home (which the water department told me is normal for the area). My only guess is that at one point before they started to do water conservation in my area, it may have been needed. Unfortunately, it was a foreclosure so I can't ask the former owners if this was an issue for them or not.

Aside from the reducing to 40 psi (which I attempted to do), I think I have done everything you requested. I appreciate your time. Like I mentioned, I had a number of plumbers and the water department out here already and not one could tell me why it is the way it is. Something is definitely wrong, I just have no idea what it is. I figured I'd try here. Thanks again for all of your help.

You have the perfect set up to check where the problem. Using the two gages I and the PRV I can isolate the clog between the house and the service line. It all depends upon if you can adjust the PRV back down under 60 PSI. Give it another try. Good luck, Tom

Ok, after researching PRV's online, I found out what my issue was with adjusting it. I had never used one before so I thought tightening down (going clockwise) would lower the pressure. In fact, it increases the pressure but since there is only 60 psi coming in, it appeared to be the same as before going in to the PRV.That being said, I was able to lower the second gauge by going counter clockwise with the bolt and brought the gauge down to 40 psi as requested.

So the first gauge now reads 60 psi and the second reads 40 psi. I tested the system by opening four fixtures as you stated before. The pressure on the first gauge drops to 18 psi and the second drops to 16 psi. Once again, they are close (not exactly the same but close). Does this tell you anything?

Also, after researching the PRV's online, they appear to be for reducing pressures in excess of 125 psi. According to the website I was on, this (or higher) is the normal psi range for most municipalities as they need it for things like fire hydrants, etc. Does it make sense that I would only be getting 60 psi coming into my house?

As always your time and help is very, very appreciated!

Also, after researching the PRV's online, they appear to be for reducing pressures in excess of 125 psi. Which makes me wonder why you have one on your service line,

So the first gauge now reads 60 psi and the second reads 40 psi. Which is as it should be, However after running some cold water faucets the Gages read,

pressure on the first gauge drops to 18 psi and the second drops to 16 psi. Not good! If the service line were OK the first gage should have held at 60 PSI. Unlike PVC, ABS can kink, I would have the service line checked out, You're losing volume out of that line. Good luck, Tom

Ok I checked with the water department again. They said that the normal pressure on the street is 80psi but due to elevation changes my house should probably be around 60 psi so that's fine. He said I have a PRV because it's required in areas with more than 75 psi.

He said that I would either need to replace my line with a one-and-a-half inch line (which would be connected by a one inch line from the other side of the street which seems dumb to me) or get a surge pump installed.

If I read your comment correctly, you think there may be a kink or leak in the line? Is there any way to check that without digging?

If I read your comment correctly, you think there may be a kink or leak in the line? Is there any way to check that without digging?I just did two posts ago. The two gages made it easy. Here's what I said.
If the service line were OK the first gage should have held at 60 PSI. That's why I had you dial the house PSI back to 40. Had your service line been working normal you would still have 60 PSI on the first gage when you opened a tap in the house. Instead you had a drop in the service line that shouldn't have happened. Good luck, Tom