Hello:

First off, why don't we shut that guy up down in Florida? Maybe our First Amendment is causing the Middle East to melt down...

But, on to my post... Did Romney shoot himself in the foot? Should he have mouthed off before he knew the facts? Didn't he know that when American is attacked, it's NOT time to attack the president? Did he score points with you? Is the election over? Did the fat lady sing?

RIP Ambassador Stevens.

excon

PS> There's another thread about the Mid East violence itself, waiting to break out. Who wants to start that one? I nominate Steve. It's up his alley. He can call it, Obama policies cause Mid East Meltdown...

You left out the part that led to Mitt's comment, and he was spot on. The U.S. embassy in Cairo apologized for "abuse" of free speech. That was a stupid, irresponsible thing to say. Even the administration thought so (http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/09/12/inside_the_public_relations_disaster_at_the_cairo_ embassy), but you wouldn't know it from the media's CYA job for their hero.


But Obama's remarks belie the enormous frustration of top officials at the State Department and White House with the actions of the man behind the statement, Cairo senior public affairs officer Larry Schwartz, who wrote the release and oversees the embassy's Twitter feed, according to a detailed account of the Tuesday's events.

The official noted that the statement was posted at exactly 12:18 p.m. Cairo time -- 6:18 a.m. Washington time -- well before the protests began. Romney has said, wrongly, that the statement was the administration's first response to the protests, but the official said that the demonstrations did not begin until 4 p.m. Cairo time and protesters breached the wall about 2 hours later.

After the breach, as public criticism of the statement grew, the Cairo Embassy Twitter account continued to send out tweets defending it, some of which were later deleted. One deleted tweet, originally posted at 12:30 a.m. Cairo time, said, "This morning's condemnation (issued before protests began) still stands. As does condemnation of unjustified breach of the Embassy."

Before issuing the press release, Schwartz cleared it with just one person senior to himself, Deputy Chief of Mission Marc Sievers, who was the charge d'affaires at the embassy on Tuesday because Ambassador Anne Patterson was in Washington at the time, the official said.

Schwartz sent the statement to the State Department in Washington before publishing and the State Department directed him not to post it without changes, but Schwartz posted it anyway.

"The statement was not cleared with anyone in Washington. It was sent as ‘This is what we are putting out,'" the official said. "We replied and said this was not a good statement and that it needed major revisions. The next email we received from Embassy Cairo was ‘We just put this out.'"

Mitt was right, we don't apologize for American values.

You don't have far to look for a dill over there do you?

P.S. I wish the idiot in Florida would shut up, too, but it's his right to be an idiot. Oh, and Jones had nothing to do with the Islamist eruption, he's just along for the ride (http://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/post/terry-jones-exaggerating-his-role-muhammad-film) with a compliant media.


The surprise for Kelly McBride of the Poynter Institute is how the media lets Jones get away with it.

"The media apparently are biting on this without asking some critical questions,” she said.

“Specifically, how did Terry Jones have anything to do with the violence? And the answer is, he didn’t!”

The riots started after segments were shown on Egyptian television of a film mocking the Prophet Muhammad. And they learned about it from a blog post by Coptic-American Morris Sadek.

As riots flared across Egypt and Libya, Jones told the media that he supported the controversial film. Later, media outlets reported that Jones “promoted” the film.

Soon, the national and international media were flocking to his tiny church in Gainesville.

It was a well-worn path they had trod two years earlier, when Jones set off riots by threatening to burn the Koran. He later followed through on the threat and posted the video to YouTube.

But McBride says there’s little evidence Jones had anything to do with the latest film, "Innocence of Muslims," which was made by an Israeli named Sam Bacile.

The riots were going on long before Jones spoke out in favor of it.

“I think Jones is directly contributing to a distortion, and a lot of journalists are not calling him on it,” she said.

“A lot of journalists, it seems so plausible that he was part of this, they’re not slowing down and asking critical questions,” McBride said.

Of course they aren't asking questions, and meanwhile the Israeli guy that did make the film is in hiding.

Mitt was right, we don't apologize for American values.Hello again, Steve:

Then we ought to see a bump in his numbers. Let's see how it plays..

excon

Romney was right on and it was the best moment of his campaign to date. What we needed yesterday was a Commander in Chief ;not someone who skips security briefings daily and flys off to campaign fundraisers in the middle of a crisis. The fact that there was a statement from the Cairo Embassy that the White House disavowed ;the statement was withdrawn ,and then reinstated ,not only proves his charge of mixed signals is correct;but also shows deep divisions between the President and his Sec State .

No I'm not finished . I think it was disgracefull the coward Republic leaders of Congress did not stand up for Romney. Shame on McConnell ,Cantor and Bonehead !

Mixed signals. When will you invade Libya to avenge this insult, no you will settle for drone assassinations. You don't get it do you, you have no friends in the middle east. You just have enemies, some who will tell you so and some who will plot against you. Keep you enemies close and your friends closer

Attacks on embassies are acts of war . Nothing more need be said.

Hello again, tom:

That's the way Limprod see's it too... But, I think it ain't going to play..

The Commander in Chief in a landslide.

excon

you don't have far to look for a dill over there do you?

And you do? What exactly is your problem with us Clete? I'm quite certain you have more than your share of dills, too, but no one cares about what happens in Australia.

Attacks on embassies are acts of war . Nothing more need be said.Hello again, tom:

The embassy in Cairo was attacked by a mob... They had their fun. They pulled down the flag. But, they didn't KILL anybody. I don't think we should declare war on Egypt because of it...

The attack in Libya, however, was an intentional terrorist attack. But, we're not going to declare war on Libya either.. We ARE going to go after the terrorists who did this. What? You think Obama doesn't know how to use drones?

excon

PS> Air Force One DOES have telephones..

Let's put it this way speech, no one cares what happens in america either, you can choose dill #1 or dill #2 I don't really care because either way you are screwed. As to the general distribution of dills, yes, we have imported more than our fair share. Mostly we find they come from some place else.

As Tom said, someone perpetrated an act of war, why are they still standing? If it was good enough to bomb Saddam, who was just blustering, surely it is good enough to wipe Cairo and Tripoli off the map. If GWB was still in the saddle he would have taken action, he would have bombed the crap out of something. Even Clinton retaliated

What I don't get is Al Qaeda could have plotted a strike on an embassy and you have no inkling of where they came from and where they went, could this be another intelligence failure?

Hello again, tom:

Let me add to my post above...

In terms of Egypt, Obama gave them a severe warning.. After years of being our ally, they're now in the let's wait and see category. The Muslim Brotherhood is either going to ACT like a country, and PROTECT our embassy's, or they'll be closed and the money stops flowing...

I don't know which way they'll go.

excon

Hello again, tom:

Let me add to my post above...

In terms of Egypt, Obama gave them a severe warning.. After years of being our ally, they're now in the let's wait and see category. The Muslim Brotherhood is either gonna ACT like a country, and PROTECT our embassy's, or they'll be closed and the money stops flowing...

I dunno which way they'll go.

excon

Obama just spurned Bibi again and said he doesn't consider Egypt an ally so who knows where Obama stands? Wait I know where he stands, with whatever helps him get reelected. If this keeps going though he's going to be Carter in 1979 all over again.

Obama just spurned Bibi again and said he doesn't consider Egypt an ally
There you go with that context thing again.

I watched the interview. President Obama said the U.S. would not consider Egypt an ally, "but we don’t consider them an enemy." He continued with the explanation that Egypt is a "new government that is trying to find its way."

Hello again, tom:

The embassy in Cairo was attacked by a mob... They had their fun. They pulled down the flag. But, they didn't KILL anybody. I don't think we should declare war on Egypt because of it...

The attack in Libya, however, was an intentional terrorist attack. But, we're not gonna declare war on Libya either.. We ARE gonna go after the terrorists who did this. What? You think Obama doesn't know how to use drones??

excon

PS>..

The President is NOW beefing up security for the embassies. Why didn't he knowing that :
1. it was 9-11
2. the US was boasting that we had wacked the AQ 2nd in command
3. the Dems spent 3 days crowing about wacking OBL .

And yes I know Air Force One has telephones. But have you not heard that the President RARELY ever attends a security briefing ?I don't know... maybe national security bores him.

There ya go with that context thing again.


And there you go assuming it's just me trying to spin it. Don't blame me, blame this dude with NBC News and his Twitter feed (https://twitter.com/AnthonyNBCNews/status/246051560340197376). We live in a world of communicating in 140 characters or less now, you know.

And there you go assuming it's just me trying to spin it. Don't blame me, blame this dude with NBC News and We live in a world of communicating in 140 characters or less now, you know.You believe everything someone else tells you on social media? Always best to go get the original content, not someone's digested source.

And there you go assuming it's just me trying to spin it.
I was, like, *cough* quoting the man who actually said the words.

I was, like, *cough* quoting the man who actually said the words.

What I said was still correct, the last half of the quote was irrelevant as I never implied he considered them an enemy. If you want to nitpick, feel free to talk amongst yourself because I'm not going to play these silly games.

What I said was still correct, the last half of the quote was irrelevant as I never implied he considered them an enemy. If you want to nitpick, feel free to talk amongst yourself because I'm not going to play these silly games.
No, what you said was NOT correct. You are rewriting the rules of the game, you know.

You believe everything someone else tells you on social media? Always best to go get the original content, not someone's digested source.

I'm not playing your stupid games either, NK. There is a topic at hand, it isn't me and your unsolicited "advice" is not wanted or welcome.

No, what you said was NOT correct. You are rewriting the rules of the game, you know.

I stand by my previous posts 100 percent I'm not playing these puerile games.

I stand by my previous posts 100 percent I'm not playing these puerile games.
I'm not a puer. I am a puella.

I'm not playing your stupid games either, NK. There is a topic at hand, it isn't me and your unsolicited "advice" is not wanted or welcome.Like your condescending advice to Wondergirl here (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/mid-east-erupts-so-does-romney-701641-2.html#post3268506)?
We just follow your lead. Your unsolicited "advice" is not wanted or welcome.

Like your condescending advice to Wondergirl here (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/mid-east-erupts-so-does-romney-701641-2.html#post3268506)?
We just follow your lead. Your unsolicited "advice" is not wanted or welcome.

Apparently you can't discern between a comment and advice. I made myself clear, I'm not playing your silly games.

NBC's chief foreign correspondent was more than surprised by Obama's ally or enemy comment. From the NEWS SOURCE as was my previous remark:

vXXToNNNoZc


TODD: I just want to get your first reaction, before you give me a report, of the President saying Egypt was not an ally or an enemy.

ENGEL: Yeah, I almost had to sit down when I heard that. For the last forty years, the United States has had two main allies in the Middle East — Saudi Arabia and Egypt, the other ally in the Middle East being Israel. For the President to come out and say, well, he’s not exactly sure if Egypt is an ally any more but it’s not an enemy, that is a significant change in the perspective of Washington toward this country, the biggest country in the Arab world. It makes one wonder, well, was it worth it? Was it worth supporting the Arab Spring, supporting the demonstrations here in Tahrir Square, when now in Tahrir Square there are clashes going on behind me right in front of the US embassy?

You can see now teargas coming — teargas being fired into a crowd of demonstrators who are trying to get close to the embassy, which is at the end of the street, and throw rocks at the US embassy. A very different scene here, a very different Egypt before, when the United States — President Obama — was supporting the demonstrators, President Mubarak was in power, and Egypt was very much an ally. The President doesn’t seem to be sure if Egypt is an ally any more, and some demonstrators who the Arab Spring helped give a voice to are trying to attack the US embassy.

I guess you just completely miss the point. Wondergirl was using the president's own words to make her point about context. You keep using someone else's opinion of his words.

I guess you just completely miss the point. Wondergirl was using the president's own words to make her point about context. You keep using someone else's opinion of his words.
One thousand greenies! You explained it better than even I could have.

I guess you just completely miss the point. Wondergirl was using the president's own words to make her point about context. You keep using someone else's opinion of his words.

I never miss the point but you both did. I was having a conversation with ex, that's how friends talk. But perhaps you don't have any friends so you may not know that, and if that's the case you have my pity.

If you two want to keep playing games feel free to congratulate each other on how brilliantly you think you smacked down the conservative and play amongst yourselves while ex and I talk. I couldn't care less what either of you think.

I never miss the point but you both did. I was having a conversation with ex, that's how friends talk. But perhaps you don't have any friends so you may not know that, and if that's the case you have my pity.

If you two want to keep playing games feel free to congratulate each other on how brilliantly you think you smacked down the conservative and play amongst yourselves while ex and I talk. I couldn't care less what either of you think.
I'll just quote this for posterity. A real insight into the conservative mindset.

If you two want to keep playing games
How is this playing games? You deliberately gave the wrong impression about a quote taken out of context. And last I knew, this is an open board and doesn't belong to just two members. Maybe I don't have the proper ID?

I was indeed about to post the same thing. It is not a game when we try to keep facts involved in our discussions. Then accusing us of the same things that you do is poor form indeed. If you and your friends want to have a private chat you can use many free instant messaging programs, I can point you to a few if you want. But if you post disinformation here you WILL be called on it... whether you call it "games" or not.

How is this playing games? You deliberately gave the wrong impression about a quote taken out of context. And last I knew, this is an open board and doesn't belong to just two members. Maybe I don't have the proper ID?

That's an outright lie Wondergirl, I did not deliberately mislead, I referred to and I quote, an "Emmy Award winning journalist (https://twitter.com/AnthonyNBCNews?tw_i=246051560340197376&tw_e=screenname&tw_p=tweetembed)" from NBC, but I showed you that way back. Nitpicking on something that has no bearing on the meaning of my comment is a game in my opinion.

As for your "this is an open board" remark, I have done nothing to prevent you from participating or suggest you shouldn't. It was an explanation as to why I didn't feel the need for context, it was just a remark to ex - we've been talking to each other that way for years on multiple boards you know.

Did Obama say he didn't consider Egypt an ally? Yes. Did he shun Bibi? Yes. Did I justify my comment to ex and cite the source? Yes. I have thoroughly addressed your initial complaint so if you want to pursue this further I can only consider it intentional provocation.

I was indeed about to post the same thing. It is not a game when we try to keep facts involved in our discussions. Then accusing us of the same things that you do is poor form indeed. If you and your friends want to have a private chat you can use many free instant messaging programs, I can point you to a few if you want. But if you post disinformation here you WILL be called on it...whether you call it "games" or not.

Calling me a liar is poor form.

Are you two done now? Do you have anything useful to add to the topic or not?

Are you two done now? Do you have anything useful to add to the topic or not?
Just one question? Are you this way in real life?

Are you two done now? Do you have anything useful to add to the topic or not?Pipe down now, you're not the topic police. :D

Obviously the rules in this place are a joke.

Obviously the rules in this place are a joke.
Which rules do you mean?

Ah, so you have none to abide by?

Ah, so you have none to abide by?
Again I ask, which rules are you referring to?

I'm really starting to like this man:

"It was a terrorist attack. It wasn't the result of a mob being excited. It was a group of jihadists who were well-armed and well-trained and well-equipped, and they decided to attack the consulate in Benghazi and try and kill people. That's far different from what happened in Cairo, where a mob was whipped into a frenzy by these people who were talking about this so-called movie that insults Mohammed."

As for the Obama administration's handling of the crisis, McCain was almost entirely positive. "I think it was fine. By the way, Secretary of State Hilary Clinton gave a marvelous statement today," said McCain. He did not offer such praise for the Romney campaign's statements on the events. (ABC News)

Specifically, the one here (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/faq.php?faq=vb_faq) that says "Do not disparage any member publicly on the forums. If you state that you disagree with the answer of another member, please explain why politely."

I explained myself numerous times, justified my answer, supplied my source and attempted to get back on topic (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/mid-east-erupts-so-does-romney-701641-3.html#post3268541) only to be accused of deliberate deception (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/mid-east-erupts-so-does-romney-701641-4.html#post3268583) by you anyway. I think being called a liar, especially after having shown I'm not, definitely qualifies.

I'm done with this thread, obviously having a mature discussion is out of the question.

Specifically, the one here (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/faq.php?faq=vb_faq) that says "Do not disparage any member publicly on the forums. If you state that you disagree with the answer of another member, please explain why politely."

I explained myself numerous times, justified my answer, supplied my source and attempted to get back on topic (eliberately gave the wrong impression) only to be accused of deliberate deception (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/mid-east-erupts-so-does-romney-701641-4.html#post3268583) aby you nyway. I think being called a liar, especially after having shown I'm not, definitely qualifies.

I'm done with this thread, obviously having a mature discussion is out of the question.
I disparaged you? Called you a liar? I tried to keep the discussion fair.

Specifically, the one that says "Do not disparage any member publicly on the forums. If you state that you disagree with the answer of another member, please explain why politely." Does that rule apply to yourself as well? Or just to us?

There ya go with that context thing again.

I watched the interview. President Obama said the U.S. would not consider Egypt an ally, "but we don't consider them an enemy." He continued with the explanation that Egypt is a "new government that is trying to find its way."

That's just the President voting ' present' again. Mitt said that the adm sends mixed signals.. there you go.

Hello again:

I don't know what's troubling you righty's so much... I thought you didn't LIKE the Muslim Brotherhood... Now that Obama is moving AWAY from them, you think they're great...

I can't figure you out..

excon

That's just the President voting ' present' again. Mitt said that the adm sends mixed signals ..there ya go.
Sort of like this? "I really enjoy reading your posts, Tom, but sometimes I want to reach into my monitor and strangle you, but then, as I get to know you better, that may change."

Hello again:

I dunno what's troubling you righty's so much... I thought you didn't LIKE the Muslim Brotherhood... Now that Obama is moving AWAY from them, you think they're great....

I can't figure you out..

excon

What makes you think he's moving away from them ? That phone call he made to Morsi ? Lol .
This is the White House version :
"The President made his point that we've been committed to the process of change in Egypt, and we want to continue to build with the Egyptian government"
That doesn't sound like he moving in his position at all . That sounds like Candidate Obama being aware that the melt down in the ummah ; and the fervent anti-Americanism is a direct threat to his reelection theme related to foreign policy that he has restored American prestige and defeated the jihadists.

Morsi is a committed member of the Brotherhood .The Brotherhood instigated the protests (and cooperated in the commando style raid that killed Amabassador Stevens ). The immam at Cairo University (where the President made his address during his apology tour ) endorses the protests and the pogroms against the Copts . The President is delusional to think that a phone call to Morsi from Air Force One ,in between campaign stops, can turn back the rising tide.

Sort of like this? "I really enjoy reading your posts, Tom, but sometimes I want to reach into my monitor and strangle you, but then, as I get to know you better, that may change."

And words have real meanings in diplomacy .

and words have real meanings in diplomacy .
Was I diplomatic? :) Good example?

No ;the President's words. Romney's charges was the adm is sending mixed signals . He's correct. In one sentence ,the President proved his point.

The recent middle east unrest reminds me of the struggles of another young new nation that had challenges to build after years of being told what to do, and how to do it. The Good Old USA! How quickly we forget all the blood we ourselves have shed, on the path to freedom.

Of course you righties have no sympathy for the growing pains of new democracies, and think that unless its an instant success, it's a failure. They just have a ways to go, and indeed, so do we.

So you are OK with our embassies being over-run and our Ambassador ambushed and murdered ? Ok

That's just the President voting ' present' again. Mitt said that the adm sends mixed signals ..there ya go.






Quoting out of context, contextomy-call it what you like but it does not excuse it.

If it was his intention to send, "mixed signals" then the second part of the quote should be included to demonstrate this point.. The partial quote gives the impression of a concrete position.


Tut

so you are ok with our embassies being over-run and our Ambassador ambushed and murdered ? Ok

I never said it was okay, those are your words.I said it was COMMON for new governments to go through this period of chaos. That's why I used us as an example because we had our own history of senseless violence and mistakes.

Lets be real as there is a vacuum of authority, and responsibility that's being exploited by dissidents in the middle east, fostered by decades of dictators, who took no prisoners, and they are no longer there. The new governments are weak and we have seen this in all governments through out history.

Have you forgotten the struggles of Eastern Europe when the Soviets splintered?

Quoting out of context, contextomy-call it what you like but it does not excuse it.

If it was his intention to send, "mixed signals" then the second part of the quote should be included to demonstrate this point.. The partial quote gives the impression of a concrete position.


Tut

The complete quote was the mixed signal. It doesn't take much.. Ambassador April Gilespi once told Saddam Hussein that the US had no opinion on his border disputes with Kuwait .That sent a wrong signal . Had she said that the US would not tolerate his move on Kuwait ,then the Gulf War may have been prevented .
In context ;out of context... his statement was feckless and weak... not a strong leader at all.

I never said it was okay, those are your words.I said it was COMMON for new governments to go thru this period of chaos. Thats why I used us as an example because we had our own history of senseless violence and mistakes.

Lets be real as there is a vacuum of authority, and responsibility thats being exploited by dissidents in the middle east, fostered by decades of dictators, who took no prisoners, and they are no longer there. The new governments are weak and we have seen this in all governments thru out history.

Have you forgotten the struggles of Eastern Europe when the Soviets splintered?

And I'll remind you in case you have forgotten that I was more than willing that we assist the new democracy in Iraq in their infancy ;but it was Obama and Evita that cut the rug out of our assistance to them .I'll also remind you that it is Obama who threw his support behind the Brotherhood ;a terrorist organization .

the complete quote was the mixed signal. It doesn't take much .. Ambassador April Gilespi once told Saddam Hussein that the US had no opinion on his border disputes with Kuwait .That sent a wrong signal . Had she said that the US would not tolerate his move on Kuwait ,then the Gulf War may have been prevented .
In context ;out of context .... his statement was feckless and weak....not a strong leader at all.


Hi Tom,

I'm not disputing your judgement on the politics. In fact I would tend to agree with you.

Out of context it is a definitive statement. In context it would be a mixed message.

Tut

and I'll remind you in case you have forgotten that I was more than willing that we assist the new democracy in Iraq in their infancy ;but it was Obama and Evita that cut the rug out of our assistance to them .I'll also remind you that it is Obama who threw his support behind the Brotherhood ;a terrorist organization .

They were ready to deal with things on their own in Iraq, they didn't need us, and we didn't need there condition. Case closed. American businesses is all over Iraq.

You didn't go there to stay and in any case you being there didn't stop them bombing each other senseless, you made no real difference to the life of the Iraqi, just helped them exchange one tyranny for another and they have proven themselves incapable of western style democracy

What the hell this has to do with us I don't know

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/police-gas-sydney-protesters-20120915-25yrb.html

I expect muslims are just looking for an excuse

So america, do us a favour, keep your trouble in your own back yard and please decide soon that making hate films isn't and never was free speech

The blue helmet UN Multinational Peace Keepers were attacked and overrun in the Sinai . There were wounded casualties. The attackers threw hand grenades, fired rpg's,entered the peacekeepers camp, and raised a black Islamist flag.
The peace keepers have been there since the 1979 Camp David Accords peace treaty was negotiated and brokered by Jimmy Carter .The deal remained in place for almost 25 years until the Brotherhood took over Egypt with the tacit approval and support of President Zero.

Morsi pays lip service to the accords of course. He isn't stupid enough to come right out and scrap them... not with US bucks on the line. But he has been very open in his intent to "amend " the accords. His advisor ,Mohammed Esmat Seif Al-Dawla,says that the amends must include an Egyptian remilitarization of the Sinai... in other words ;a signiicant military mobilization on the Israeli border .

Meanwhile our allies /non-allies depending on the hour ,have organized anti-American demonstrations/riots /attacks throughout the ummah . In Bengazi ,the Airport has been closed because of all the ani-aircraft fire by our "allies " in Libya .

The President's foreign policy is in ruins,and requires at the minimum an explanation to the people's House... Congress about what went wrong,and where he plans on steering the ship of state going forward.. But I'm hearing from Congressman Devin Nunes that the State Dept is refusing to send a spokesperson to Capitol Hill to testify to the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.

Perhaps they can't defend the President's 'shoot first-aim later' blunder about our relationship with Egypt. Oh I'm sure our relationship is begging for reevaluation. But for now ,Egypt is an ally ,and has been for decades .The US and Egyptian militaries still communicate and still work together. We still hold Egypt accountable for its peace treaty with Israel. The US has just pledged even more aid . That looks like a duck and quacks like a duck to me .

Until there is a formal declaration to the contrary ,the President is bound to that reality. His comment was contradictory mixed signals that does not help clarify the US position at all. Had he been a staffer at the State Dept ,and made such a public comment he likely would've been fired. Keep that in mind in November .

so america, do us a favour, keep your trouble in your own back yard and please decide soon that making hate films isn't and never was free speech

Have you seen the video ? I haven't.. all I've seen is a 3rd rate trailer that has the quality of a D grade high school project. You really think this is about an alleged video insult ? Please ! You are smarter than that.
The "peaceful religion" has slandered Judaism and Christianity with blasphemies for years and you don't see these orchestrated mock outrage riots.
The fact that Aussies have come under the cross hairs should tell you it has nothing to do with the video. Go ahead ;retreat into your island fortress and pretend that it can't happen to you if you cower under cover.

The President's foreign policy is in ruins,and requires at the minimum an explanation to the people's HouseHello tom:

So, Obama should prostrate himself in front of the obstructionist Republican House, and tell them what went wrong?? Really?? He should DO that?? Bwa, ha ha ha ha.

The closer we get to the election the more desperate you sound...

Obama by a Huge, HUMONGOUS margin, and it's getting LARGER.

excon

The closer we get to the election the more desperate you sound...

This is what I am noticing as well.

This is what I am noticing as well.Hello NK:

Our right wingers apparently believe the same thing Romney does. Here's what his campaign says (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/249503-romney-adviser-libya-assassination-wouldnt-have-happened-under-romney),


“There's a pretty compelling story that if you had a President Romney, you'd be in a different situation,” Richard Williamson, a top Romney foreign policy adviser, told The Washington Post..

In Egypt and Libya and Yemen, again demonstrations — the respect for American has gone down, there's not a sense of American resolve,

Resolve... RESOLVE? He said it was our lack of RESOLVE!! That means if they were AFRAID of us, like they would be under a Romney administration, they wouldn't be demonstrating...

That is SO stupid, and SO outrageous on SO many levels that, even I have no comment on it...

Excon

Obama by a Huge, HUMONGOUS margin, and it's getting LARGER.

So did Jimmy Carter . Carter had double digit leads,and a huge lead as late as Oct 26 1980. Now what did Carter in?. The Islamist Revoution in Iran , a poor debate performance ,high gas prices (they have more than doubled in the Obama term) ,and pure arrogance dismissing his opponent as a lightweight.

So did Jimmy Carter .Hello again, tom:

Well, history MIGHT repeat itself, or it MIGHT not... My bet is not.

Romney IS a lightweight. He'd be the MOST dangerous president we've ever had...

excon

Romney IS a lightweight. He'd be the MOST dangerous president we've ever had...

And the President is incompetent . The security at the Benghazi Consulate was a lock and key. The administration "explains" this by saying it was an "interim facility." But why should they be concerned ? It's not like the city was a hotbed of radical Islamist activity... right ?

The Department of State warns U.S. citizens against all but essential travel to Libya. The incidence of violent crime, especially carjacking and robbery, has become a serious problem. In addition, political violence in the form of assassinations and vehicle bombs has increased in both Benghazi and Tripoli.
Libya (http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_5762.html)

The security at the Benghazi Consulate was a lock and key.Hello again, tom:

If our consulates and embassy's become armed fortress's and no longer accessible by the people, we might as well close them down and bring the people home...

You didn't respond to Romney saying if the Muslims were AFRAID of us, they wouldn't be demonstrating... I think you BELIEVE that too. Otherwise you wouldn't blame Obama for EVERY bad thing that happens to us in the world... If Romney were running things, there WOULDN'T BE bad things happening to us..

To him (and you), Iraq was a triumph over a nuclear-armed Saddam Hussein, Barack Obama has spent the last three and a half years on an endless apology tour, an invasion of Iran is long past due, and the United States should resume torture as soon as possible.

THAT is why he'd be the MOST dangerous president we've ever had..

excon

Have you seen the video ? I haven't ..all I've seen is a 3rd rate trailer that has the quality of a D grade high school project. You really think this is about an alleged video insult ? Please ! You are smarter than that.
The "peaceful religion" has slandered Judaism and Christianity with blasphemies for years and you don't see these orchestrated mock outrage riots.
The fact that Aussies have come under the cross hairs should tell you it has nothing to do with the video. Go ahead ;retreat into your island fortress and pretend that it can't happen to you if you cower under cover.

Yes Tom I have seen the video, a rambling piece of crud that you really have to be looking to work out what it is on about, poor photography, virtually no script, RS editing, something about extortion and underage sex. The people working on it must have thought it was a porn film.

The average muslim knows nothing but what they are told, mere cannon fodder for the nut cases, this why we have Them running loose in Sydney. I haven't heard of them running loose in the US. The american embassy is in a tall building, no opportunity to force entry there, unlike the poorly protected hacienda in Benghazi

Tom we know it can happen to us we arrested a muslim terror cell the other day, really upset the good citizens of Melbourne it did and we don't cower, but we don't need your problems here, we have our own, mainly imported under a misguided humanitiarian program and we still keep taking these people from these war zones. You guys perpetrated many of these wars and you should open your doors to the millions of refugees you created, God knows you have enough empty houses to house them all

If our consulates and embassy's become armed fortress's and no longer accessible by the people, we might as well close them down and bring the people home...

And if the local host nation cannot protect them then it is up to us to protect them .What we have here is a 9-11 truther in Egypt who's government is complicit in instigating the attacks. Morsi and his government should be held personally responsible for the safety of American Embassies and consulates in their nation.. and that is the same for every other nation where our staffs are threatened .

Clete ,I have little sympathies to the morons sensibilities who have listened to their clerics slander and defame Judaism with 'blood libel' and other outrageous charges since the founding of their religion.If they dish it out they should expect to get some in return. But instead of defending our freedom of expression and thought ;this adm has gone on with it's apology tour ;and is actively seeking to prosecute the author.

this adm has gone on with it's apology tour ;and is actively seeking to prosecute the author.Hello again, tom:

I can only repeat what I said above.. Romney says the problem is America's lack of Resolve... RESOLVE? That means if they were AFRAID of us, like they would be under a Romney administration, they wouldn't be demonstrating...

Apparently, you and Romney think we need a couple MORE Mid East wars... That'll teach 'em! Let's start with Iran.

That is SO stupid, and SO outrageous on SO many levels that, even I have no comment on it...

excon

No I don't want no more Middle East wars .But it is the weakness on display that will lead to them.

No I don't want no more Middle East wars .But it is the weakness on display that will lead to them.
There's no weakness on display. You want us to bomb the Mideast?

I watched the first minutes of that movie. It's worse than LaHay's Left Behind! Can't believe anyone would throw an RPG at anything except the movie screen

No I want the embassies protected ;or close down the missions . Let me ask you ;what will the UN do about it's forces being assaulted ? Don't answer... I'll tell you . They will meet in NY soon and make hate speeches against Israel.

Its almost funny how you condemn them for talking about us, but say nothing when the loonies talk about them.

Seems you should know better, being free and all. They aren't free yet, and have no clue about what free is. While Obama may not be perfect, Mitt is clueless on everything except his tax cut!

You righties here seem to want what those righties there want, the church to make the rules and tell the people what to do. So what's the difference between Christian and Muslim fundamentalist right wing loonies? You guys just know how to look normal and be sneakier, and can get quietly elected!

OOPS so do they, my bad! Oh wait,I know the difference, silly me, you guys run to kiss Netanyahu butt, even when his own people are a lot more cautious about listening to his right wing pandering.

I love you loonies, but you guys are crazy, and completely out of step with reality! And don't expect an apology!! Expect a MUD slide you so richly deserve.

I love you loonies, but you guys are crazy, and completely out of step with reality! And don't expect an apology!!
Hey mods... do you consider this civil discourse ? Come on ! There are 2 of you active on the OP . When will this personal attack be addressed ? When I respond in kind ?

Hey mods ...do you consider this civil discourse ? Come on ! There are 2 of you active on the OP . When will this personal attack be addressed ? When I respond in kind ?
It's a discussion board, the comment doesn't seem to be rude or disrespectful, is more tongue in cheek, but report it if you think it crosses the line. I'm in the thread so cannot action it.

Tongue in cheek ? No it isn't .

Clete ,I have little sympathies to the morons sensibilities who have listened to their clerics slander and defame Judaism with 'blood libel' and other outrageous charges since the founding of their religion.If they dish it out they should expect to get some in return. But instead of defending our freedom of expression and thought ;this adm has gone on with it's apology tour ;and is actively seeking to prosecute the author.

For a parole violation and you have not decried his despicable piece of crap either.

That's what this is about. You lumping their loony right with the sane and sensible and calling them all the same.They are NOT! Then you get mad when I do the same to you? Unreal!!

tongue in cheek ? No it isn't .
I certainly wouldn't call it disrespectful. I've had nastier comments leveled at me on this board.

For a parole violation and you have not decried his despicable piece of crap either.
Nor have I heard you decry a Hollywood production about Jesus hanging on a cross dying and lusting after Mary Magdalene at the same time. When you see Christians rioting and killing over that then perhaps your comment would have some relevance.

My point was there is no difference between a muslim, christian, or jewish right wing loony. Or an atheist one for that matter.

You all engage in soaring rhetoric, spew hate, and denigrate any who disagree with you. Because you are free you think you have arrived, and cannot see others are going through what we have been through.

What? We didn't spill blood along the way?

That's because you believe in moral equivalence . That is ;you see no difference between an individual act and riots and murder in multiple cities over an alleged slight. You see no difference between a Coptic Christian making a silly video and an undeclared policy of the government in power to exterminate Coptics or drive them out of the country .

Clete ,I have little sympathies to the morons sensibilities who have listened to their clerics slander and defame Judaism with 'blood libel' and other outrageous charges since the founding of their religion.If they dish it out they should expect to get some in return. But instead of defending our freedom of expression and thought ;this adm has gone on with it's apology tour ;and is actively seeking to prosecute the author.

And so he should be prosecuted, this is hate mail in whatever form, just because it is masquadering as art doesn't exempt it. Thing is the consequences of his comment has got people killed, making him an accessory to murder before the fact. Your anything goes policies reaps this sort of thing, but you aren't often the ones who pay the price, so yes your administration should decry the act and prosecute all the offenders this is justice, it may not be the american way but it is justice.

Look Tom Mudhutmad was a desert madman who convinced people to go to war in the name of God, they overran half the world and that war continues 1400 years later. These are a tribal people, unsophisticated and culturally niaive. You don't go prodding such people with a stick

that's because you believe in moral equivalence . That is ;you see no difference between an individual act and riots and murder in multiple cities over an alleged slight. You see no difference between a Coptic Christian making a silly video and an undeclared policy of the government in power to exterminate Coptics or drive them out of the country .

What I see is fundamentalist muslims stirring crap from propaganda, hatred and lies. Much like the white supremist who shot up the Sikh temple.

Nope not even close... it only would be equivalent if Wade Michael Page had done his act with the prompting of the rulers of the nation . But that is not the case . He is a criminal . So on one hand you have a lone murderer who went on a rampage before he offed himself . Had he lived ,he would've been arrested ,prosecuted ,and convicted for the crime he committed .

On the other hand you have clerics in multiple nations stirring up mob violence for political motives .

Sorry ;your equivalence doesn't work ;but I understand that it is that thinking that leads the President and his Sec State to apologize for our freedoms. .

Okay where is the link that shows Obama, and Clinton apologizing?

Sorry ;your equivalence doesn't work ;but I understand that it is that thinking that leads the President and his Sec State to apologize for our freedoms . .

Tom your idea of freedom is wrong, freedom is not doing anything whether if offends anyoneelse or not, freedom is not suffering oppression, of being able to make reasonable decisions of how you will live within a community or alone. Freedom is not being a law unto yourself but living with respect for law and others.

What was apologised for was the action of some individual which offended religious sensibilities of others

Clete you don't know .These same hypocrites would tell you that a publicly funded art exhibit depicting a cross in urine ,or a dung-covered Madonna is freedom of expression . The ONLY difference is that Christians don't riot and murder over it. Their apology is not sincere . No not at all. Evita said "The U.S. deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others,"... "Our commitment to religious tolerance goes back to the very beginning of our nation" . You'll wait a long time before she ever apologized for the examples I just cited . It is the progressives who instead use taxpayer dollars to underwrite such outrages .
No ;their apology is a public display of weakness in an attempt at appeasement.

a dung-covered Madonna
You didn't understand the meaning behind that?

That was no apology, especially when she condemns the violence in the next statement

Hillary Clinton's Statement on the Attack in Libya - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/hillary-clintons-statement-attack-libya-113157546--politics.html?_esi=1)

Why can't you produce the apology, or stop repeating Mitts lies!

Clete you don't know .These same hypocrites would tell you that a publicly funded art exhibit depicting a cross in urine ,or a dung-covered Madonna is freedom of expression . The ONLY difference is that Christians don't riot and murder over it. Their apology is not sincere . No not at all. Evita said "The U.S. deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others,".... "Our commitment to religious tolerance goes back to the very beginning of our nation" . You'll wait a long time before she ever apologized for the examples I just cited . It is the progressives who instead use taxpayer dollars to underwrite such outrages .
No ;their apology is a public display of weakness in an attempt at appeasement.

Tom you have no commitment to religious tolerance if you permit such offensive material in your midst. Religious tolerance means not deliberately offending any group, not allowing people to promolgate offensive material for profit, as I said you have the idea of freedom backwards, freedom is not freedom if you bully or tread down any group. Freedom is not a Scotsman on a hill showing his arse and shouting they will never take our freedom

You speak about appeasement, but you can't because your nation invaded another nation to appease what, the voices of liars and decievers in your midst. As I have said I have noted that the muslims in the US are not protesing in a violent manner and yet we have to bear the consequences of your freedoms, you know what I say; B#ullshlt! Get your act together america,

You didn't understand the meaning behind that?

No ,I don't understand a sacred Madonna surrounded by profane pronography ,female genitalia ,and elephant dung shaped in the image of cherubim and seraphim.I understand it is art .I understand it was offensive . I did not understand why it's exhibit was funded publicly .

The big difference I see here is the reaction . No one said Ofili didn't have the right to paint it . No one said he didn't have the right to display it.No cleric or national leader called for his death . No cleric or public official whipped the population into a violent fury. There was instead a court case to prohibit the display using public funds... a case that was lost . So my tax dollars paid for the display of a blasphemy .

As I have said I have noted that the muslims in the US are not protesing in a violent manner Perhaps since they have escaped the oppression of their society ,they understand freedom better than you .

No Tom unlike their brothers here they cower knowing what will happen to them if they dare do it there. You think our police response was brutal well I'm sure they understand that your national guard would subdue them probably with gunfire. Perhaps you didn't get the more militant type from Lebanon, Pakistan and Afghanistan there but we have them here, courtesy of a displacement that you instigated in your continuing war against Islam

their apology is a public display of weakness in an attempt at appeasement.Hello again, tom:

I suppose you could say a hostage negotiator APOLOGIZES for a kidnapper. It DOES make the cops look weak. In fact, it truly IS an attempt at appeasement...

They are so wrong, to do that... They should SHOW the kidnappers of the world just how POWERFUL the cops are... That'll STOP kidnapping, won't it??

excon

I think he is still looking for the link to back up his appease and apology lie, that has been, in the words of he and speech... DEBUNKED!!

Geeze ;take a couple days off to enjoy the weekend and football...
I already quoted Evita's apology . Yeah yeah I know she doesn't come right out and say we're sorry ;but that is what it was nonetheless.

You want to speak of a lie ? The lie is that all this has anything to do with a video.

Of course you are not sorry Tom, excepting that some americans got killed, but hey americans get killed everyday in service of their country don't they? So just another day at the office, what is there to be sorry about

Have you wondered why they get killed Tom, is it just that someone is out to get you? Or is there more to it, see my new thread hey, great retirement of those obsolete planes in Afghanistan

You want to speak of a lie ? The lie is that all this has anything to do with a video.Hello again, tom:

I agree. It has NOTHING to do with the video.. It was just an excuse to show their anti American hatred... So, how's that Obama's fault?

Oh, that's right, you guys can't remember how things were 4 years ago... I suppose you're going to tell us that the Arab world LOVED us under Bush, but now they hate us...

Here's the deal... Obama has been pursing the Bush policies in the Mid East, only he's doing it on steroids... Do you think the Arab world is going to love us because of that??

excon

Not right Ex Obams has withdrawn from the middle east has been disengaging slowly, if it was Bush you would have been in Syria by now, I think Obama has got the message, US future is not in the middle east, not in Europe but in Asia, but the problem is he has come too late to the game, there are other players who might even deny him a seat at the table. What was more important than being in Russia?

Be clear, Ex, american influence is not welcome in Asia, they are happy to trade with you but that is as far as it goes. In fact your might even be a barrier to progress. Consider what might happen in Korea if you are not a constant threat? If you weren't part of the equation? You have to allow people to decide their own course of action even if it means you loose. It is a lesson surely you learnt in Vietnam?

US future is not in the middle east, They desperately need their oil though.

Karma no doubt you have heard of Alaska, of the Gulf, they have no problems Romney will allow them to drill everywhere

Obama has been pursing the Bush policies in the Mid East, only he's doing it on steroids... Do you think the Arab world is going to love us because of that??

Not right Ex Obams has withdrawn from the middle east has been disengaging slowly,
Clete is right ;you create a vacuum and it will get filled.If America appears weak and apologetic ,that posture will be exploited . Also this adm has shown that there are no consequences for crossing us(except if that country is Israel). We had an attack on our embassy in Georgia last year that the press and the adm pretty much down played . We had an assassination plot by Iranain Quds Force of a Saudi diplomat on American soil that we did not aggressively respond to.

And now our public posture is to condemn some idiot video maker instead of putting the screws on the Egyptian government ;the Libyan government and others who we know were complicit in the attacks.

More mixed signals. What is ambassador Rice smoking ?
Obama Administration Not So Sure Attack in Benghazi Was Planned - Global - The Atlantic Wire (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2012/09/obama-administration-not-so-sure-attack-benghazi-was-planned/56916/)

Tom disengaging from an area is not being weak and apologetic, it is being realistic about where your trading interests lie. You overplayed your hand in the middle east and look where it got you. Now you are overplaying your hand in the Pacific and we hope it won't have the same effect.

You want weak and apologetic, look at your response to Libya, an al Qaeda attack and you want to say protesters attacked your embassy with military weapons. You wouldn't be in this situation if you had not made yourself a parriah throughout the Muslim world.

Election year and Obama can't afford another war, the US cannot afford another war.
Brer Bunny, he lay low

You overplayed your hand in the middle east and look where it got you. Now you are overplaying your hand in the Pacific and we hope it won't have the same effect.
The Pacific is another example where our perceived weakness has emboldened a nation intent on territorial expansion... or have you not been following the aggressions in the Senkaku Islands ;the Spratley Islands ,and with almost every other nation in the First Island Chain region.

Tom this is something the US needs to stay out of. These are centuries old arguments. We know that during WWII Japan occupied all these places, before then we have only historical records shrouded by time

Hello again,

More stuff from Mother Jones:


.. Palestinians have "no interest whatsoever in establishing peace, and that the pathway to peace is almost unthinkable to accomplish."

Romney spoke of "the Palestinians" as a united bloc of one mindset, and he said: "I look at the Palestinians not wanting to see peace anyway, for political purposes, committed to the destruction and elimination of Israel, and these thorny issues, and I say there's just no way."
"And I look at the Palestinians not wanting to see peace anyway, for political purposes, committed to the destruction and elimination of Israel, and I say there's just no way."

Romney was indicating he did not believe in the peace process and, as president, would aim to postpone significant action: "[S]o what you do is, you say, you move things along the best way you can. You hope for some degree of stability, but you recognize that this is going to remain an unsolved problem…and we kick the ball down the field and hope that ultimately, somehow, something will happen and resolve it."

This is a LEADER??

Excon

This is a controversial statement ? He's 1000 % correct. The Palestinians have zero interest in a 2 state solution and have demonstrated that many times .

this is a controversial statement ? He's 1000 % correct. The Palestinians have zero interest in a 2 state solution and have demonstrated that many times .
So we should no longer continue to engage them in discussion about it? Let 'em do whatever?

Sounds like Romney is talking about some Hope and Change.

this is a controversial statement ? He's 1000 % correct. The Palestinians have zero interest in a 2 state solution and have demonstrated that many times .Hello again, tom:

So, we should elect him NOT to lead, but to hold on till somebody better comes along...
kick the ball down the field and hope that ultimately, somehow, something will happen and resolve it." He has NO CLUE that HE'S supposed to BE the thing that will happen.. So much so, that he's not even going to try...

Who needs THAT kind of leadership??

Excon

PS> (edited) Yes, I have more to say. If Ronald Reagan felt the same way Romney does, the cold war would NOT have ended!!

It's a more honest assessment of the conflict than we've seen in decades from presidents or candidates from either party. What you are saying is that they should lie to us.
Obama spoke all the right things ;and his negotiations were a dismal failure that led to tense relations with our ally Israel ;and ZERO progress in settling this issue.

Ps.. I've got more . Harry Truman said 'I tell them the truth and they think it's hell'. I'm liking this tell it the way it is Romney . It's a refreshing change from the dance around the issue Romney of the primaries.

Obama spoke all the right things ;and his negotiations were a dismal failureHello again, tom:

I'd rather try and fail, than not try at all.. Frankly, that's a very American position to have... That's cause I'm American through and through...

To want to win an election, to do NOTHING about saving the world, is somehow foreign to me... It's NOT American... Maybe Romney is an anchor baby, and not really AMERICAN!

So, we can count on Romney to be a CARETAKER, and NOT a leader, huh??

excon

Obama's solutions are the same ole boiler plate pablum that hasn't worked since Camp David. Get the Israeli's to cede for vague promises of future Palestinian good will. What is missing in the process is that there has to be a credible peace partner at the other end of the table . That's why Camp David worked ;Sadat wanted peace. The Palestinians have NEVER demonstrated that .

Israel doesn't want peace, it wants land.

Israel doesn't want peace, it wants land.

yeah ,that's why you see them invading all their neighbors with rocket barrages .

yeah ,that's why you see them invading all their neighbors with rocket barrages .

They are more sophisticated than that Tom they build walls but I agree the Palestinians negotiate from a position of weakness therefore they negotiate with rockets and suicide bombers. The Israeli's have no need of these they have jet aircraft. When the Palestinians realise they have been conned all these years and there will be no "Palestinian State" there will a blood bath. It is impossible for the West bank and Gaza to be one State with corridors through Israel, that thinking didn't work in 1948 and it will not work now. Gaza should resign itself to being a new Singapore, what a lesson in creating a small non violent state. Small states don't need more land, they can build upward, what they need is peace

Clete ,Golda Meir is quoted as saying : 'Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us'.

Clete ,Golda Meir is quoted as saying : 'Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us'.Wow, that quote could be applied to the conservatives in the US.

Clete ,Golda Meir is quoted as saying : 'Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us'.

Yes great idea Tom so to stop the fighting you want a cultural shift. If the events of the last few days have taught us anything they have taught us that the culture has shifted to the extreme and ideas of love are out the window, we had women here demonstrating their love of their children by having them placard carrying in a riot and what did the placard say; Peace, no it said BEHEAD. Their idea of peace is when their enemies are dead and the west just doesn't get it

So then you basically agree with Romney about the prospects of a settlement. .

The noisy ones get the headlines and the rest are at home or work if they have it. Hard to judge a new nation by the noisy locals. I mean its hardly 7 million people that's throwing rocks. No nation has ever had a smooth transition from dictator to voters. Neither will the arab spring countries.

Tom I didn't say he wasn't expressing a realistic point of view on the problem, you and I both know there is only one solution, not one that is acceptable to anyone, but he was niaive to say it