Hello:

Clinton killed, didn't he?? Romney doesn't stand a chance. When you actually apply the 2 + 2 formula, he's out of gas.

excon

Only if you drank the Koolaide.

There is more truth to L. Ron Hubbard s books and The Church of Scientology than was uttered during the ENTIRE Democrat Convention.

I agree Ex Clinton was spot on, but he was talking to true believers and he isn't the one facing election

let's see... Monica + Jennifer + Paula + Kathleen +Juanita = Democrat war on women.

I thought his speech was a self serving nostalgia tour that did not much apply to the Obama Adm. In fact ;I think he intentionally highlighted his "successes " in contrast to the President's failures. He tried to transfer his own economic record after the Republican Congress forced him to do budget cuts as workfare , to the current president.His singular message was 'vote for Obama if you want Clintoon redux' . But we know Obama couldn't carry Clintoon bags (as Clintoon told Teddy Kennedy) .

He has always had a clever line of bs at his reserve ;and I usually have to download the text because his performances are usually mesmerizing . Lucky for me I was watching the Gnats blow a home game to the Cowboys ,and read the transcript as I listened to an audio download .
He took a shot at Mittens for not being specific enough when he knows d@mn well that the President will not touch on specifics in his address tonight.

His knock on Romney's budget math may have had a grain of truth ;but compared to Obama's double counting on his claims to Medicare savings ? Not even close . Obama uses the same cuts to pay for both an extension of Medicare's trust fund and ObamaCare's new insurance subsidies.

So here is some math that Clintoon forgot to mention :

1. National Debt increased from $11.9Trillion in 2009, to over $16Trillion today (the highest dollar amount increase in history).

2. From 2009 – 2011, U.S. trade deficit with China increased by over 30%

3 .Food Stamp participation increased from 33.5 Million in 2009 to about 47 Million today (the highest participation rate in history) ;all during the Obama recovery.

What Clintoon also failed to mention was that the Obama budget got ZERO support for passage in Congress by either party . Why was it rejected by the Dems ? Because they prefer to blame the Repubics for the impass than splitting their coalition between the stimulus hawks ;and the deficit reduction hawks .
Bottom line is that this President can't lead from behind... or from the links (104 rounds played to date ) .

All in all ;yesterday reminded me of the bibilical passage (paraphrase ) . 'You will deny God 3 times before the cock crows .'

Clinton was always a great public speaker, his charisma is unique.

Clinton was always a great public speaker, his charisma is unique.
I met him back when he was still in office... and it wasn't publicly... a true born used car salesman if there ever was one.

Met Hillary too at another time... jeeze what a shrew she is when the camera isn't around.

Tom those are marvelous statistics and only serve to reinforce how severe the situation was that Obama took over. Clinton spelt it out very well even if he took a long time to do it, Obama was handed a Crock and first he had to clean the bucket. By the time he got that done, the republicans were in a
Position to block what he might do.
He achieved some interesting things which might have not solved the problem
He put an end to the Bush Iraq war which was adding to the debt
He reformed Health care
He turned the auto industry around
He set a dead line for withdrawal from Afghanistan
He repositioned the US from the Atlantic to the Pacific

What he wasn't allowed to do was to reduce the debt by increasing taxation

Fact is Tom you are in deniel, the US is bankrupt and it takes time to work your way out of bankruptcy

Tom those are marvelous statistics and only serve to reinforce how severe the situation was that Obama took over. Clinton spelt it out very well even if he took a long time to do it, Obama was handed a Crock and first he had to clean the bucket. By the time he got that done, the republicans were in a
position to block what he might do.
He achieved some interesting things which might have not solved the problem
He put an end to the Bush Iraq war which was adding to the debt
He reformed Health care
He turned the auto industry around
He set a dead line for withdrawal from Afghanistan
He repositioned the US from the Atlantic to the Pacific

What he wasn't allowed to do was to reduce the debt by increasing taxation

Fact is Tom you are in deniel, the US is bankrupt and it takes time to work your way out of bankruptcy

Really, you believe all that propaganda? The deadline to leave Afghanistan was set under Bush...
He didn't fix ANYTHING in healthcare... he made everything far worse.
He didn't turn the US auto industry around...
He didn't reposition the US from the Atlantic to the pacific... the bases that were there are still there...

And Contrary to the belief of the Idiot class known as Democrats... Iraq WASN'T the G W Bush war... any more than Korea is the Obama war... don't understand? Liberals have trouble grasping the concept of what a cease fire agreement is... there wasn't TWO Gulf wars... there was only ONE... with a cease fire agreement as an intermission... and that was there through BOTH Clinton Administrations too. It started when Saddam Hussein Invaded Kuwait. I know because I was involved in that daily and intimately through 1992 in ways I still can't talk about except in vague generalities.

Incidentally... do you think the Korea war actually ended in 1953? Well it didn't there is a cease fire agreement, there was no end to it... and there is no end in sight either.

I guess the left believes if you repeat a lie enough times it becomes the truth.. because their entire platform is based on that.

And Incidentally... the National debt when Obama too Office was 9 trillion, AFTER accounting for the wars... he turned that into a 16 Trillion dollar debt... and rising. Thanks to reckless spending under HIS administration.

And NO we aren't going to give him even more to waste.. we are already taxed too much... 47% of the working people NOW don't pay a DIME in federal income tax..

Obama was handed a Crock and first he had to clean the bucket. By the time he got that done, the republicans were in a
Position to block what he might do.
The new Bob Woodward book says otherwise. His was a 'my way or the highway' proposition for his 1st 2 years. He had no meaningful contact with the Republican minority leaders ;and even Madame Mimi Pelosi would take calls from him with the mute button pressed .

He put an end to the Bush Iraq war which was adding to the debt
He turned victory into defeat when he failed to renew the status of forces agreement .US soldiers are still there dying.., except now they are dying while awaiting their withdrawal orders without any mission.

He reformed Health care
He is destroying the one entitlement he vowed to preserve . This would require a new OP ;but suffice it to say that there are no savings to consumers ;and doctors are leaving the system in droves .

He turned the auto industry around
complete rubbish . Nothing was achieved that wouldn't have been achieved under regular bankruptcy procedures. What he did was strap the US taxpayer to an investment that has lost more than 50% of the taxpayer's money... and GM again closing down it's VOLT operation . He also managed to force Chrysler to sell to a foreign company.

He set a dead line for withdrawal from Afghanistan
He half hearted surged in Afghanistan .He announced a withdrawal date ;and has left our soldiers (and yours ) to be picked off by Afghanis that they are training to take over the "civil society" there.

He repositioned the US from the Atlantic to the Pacific
I thought you opposed that . It is something I happen to agree with... but did you see how Evita got b*tch slapped by the cadres in Beijing on her way there ?
Face it he is a disaster ;and Clintoon's speech only teased the Dems over what they once had (at least in their own mind... I of course have a different opinion of the Clintoon years ) .

Really, you believe all that propaganda? The deadline to leave Afghanistan was set under Bush...
Setting deadlines and taking action so you can implement them are two different things something about talk and action which you fail to understand


He didn't fix ANYTHING in healthcare... he made everything far worse.
He didn't turn the US auto industry around...
He didn't reposition the US from the Atlantic to the pacific... the bases that were there are still there...

Time and circumstance Tom policy is one thio\ng and implementation another something you don't understand. Must be a Republican thing. They have a so let it be written so let it be done mentality

He made healthcare available to more people, it all comes at a cost
If he hadn't taken the action he did your auto industry would be dead today
You will exit Europe because you are not needed there, you will exit the middle east because you are not needed there and you have become confrontational with China, you can't do that from the Atlantic.


And Contrary to the belief of the Idiot class known as Democrats... Iraq WASN'T the G W Bush war..


Stop rewritting history without GW Bush there would have been no Iraq war


.any more than Korea is the Obama war... don't understand? Liberals have trouble grasping the concept of what a cease fire agreement is... there wasn't TWO Gulf wars... there was only ONE... with a cease fire agreement as an intermission... and that was there through BOTH Clinton Administrations too. It started when Saddam Hussein Invaded Kuwait. I know because I was involved in that daily and intimately through 1992 in ways I still can't talk about except in vague generalities.

Ah an admission Iraq was bush unfinished business. Interesting thing US ceasefires, it seems the people who suffer are the civilians, that applies to both Korea and Iraq


Incidentally... do you think the Korea war actually ended in 1953? Well it didn't there is a cease fire agreement, there was no end to it... and there is no end in sight either.

I guess the left believes if you repeat a lie enough times it becomes the truth.. because their entire platform is based on that.

For most of us Tom the Korean war ended in 1953 we don't want to revisit it, it is another of those wars the US didn't "win"


And Incidentally... the National debt when Obama too Office was 9 trillion, AFTER accounting for the wars... he turned that into a 16 Trillion dollar debt... and rising. Thanks to reckless spending under HIS administration.

And NO we aren't going to give him even more to waste.. we are already taxed too much... 47% of the working people NOW don't pay a DIME in federal income tax..

And there is your problem, the Bush era tax system which created the debt blowout and you want to blame Obama for it. How can you run a country when the people who earn the money don't pay the taxes, what a rediculous policy

The new Bob Woodward book says otherwise. His was a 'my way or the highway' proposition for his 1st 2 years. He had no meaningful contact with the Republican minority leaders ;and even Madame Mimi Pelosi would take calls from him with the mute button pressed .
He turned victory into defeat when he failed to renew the status of forces agreement .US soldiers are still there dying ..,,,except now they are dying while awaiting their withdrawal orders without any mission.
He is destroying the one entitlement he vowed to preserve . This would require a new OP ;but suffice it to say that there are no savings to consumers ;and doctors are leaving the system in droves .
complete rubbish . Nothing was acheived that wouldn't have been acheived under regular bankruptcy procedures. What he did was strap the US taxpayer to an investment that has lost more than 50% of the taxpayer's money....and GM again closing down it's VOLT operation . He also managed to force Chrysler to sell to a foreign company.
He half hearted surged in Afghanistan .He announced a withdrawal date ;and has left our soldiers (and yours ) to be picked off by Afghanis that they are training to take over the "civil society" there.
I thought you opposed that . It is something I happen to agree with .... but did you see how Evita got b*tch slapped by the cadres in Beijing on her way there ?
Face it he is a disaster ;and Clintoon's speech only teased the Dems over what they once had (at least in their own mind .... I of course have a different opinion of the Clintoon years ) .

You know what TOM I don't have to agree and by the way arrogance will get you slapped down in this part of the world anytime. You don't belong here and you should understand that.

I don't agree with US policy but that doesn't mean your administration hasn't achieved something, I'm not praising the method or the outcome just looking at what has been done. If I were doing it I would do it very differently but you could be assured my solution would include reform of tax, welfare, military, health and those doctors who are leaving, send them over here

When will you learn Clete to get out of the way when the righties get to rolling and rockin', and revising? They ain't serious, but they have to keep hollering to stay in shape for the day they really find something to holler about.

Tal that's like saying shut up, shush, the nazi are here. I will not shut up in the face of rabid right wing rhetoric. These guys exhibit no social conscious, no reponsibility for the messes they have made, no apology for their arrogance. They have never heard the word consensious, no idea what it means. Tom shouts against your social responsibility yet tells us he doesn't agree with republican platform. I want to know what does he believe in because the days of Grizzly Adams and Teddy Rooseveldt have gone forever

Typical liberal... social conscious to you means taking other people's money to fix societies ills.. ills that have been expanded by the society the progressives have constructed .

If you listened to the Dem convention speeches the last 3 days you could not help but notice that it was the Dems who were howling at the moon and foaming at the mouth full of hate and anger.

Well excuse me for not fitting into your box . I do not march in lock step with radicals who think their philosophy is main-stream. The world has tried your brand of progressive governance for a century and it is imploding on itself.

Typical liberal .....social conscious to you means taking other people's money to fix societies ills....,ills that have been expanded by the society the progressives have constructed .

If you listened to the Dem convention speeches the last 3 days you could not help but notice that it was the Dems who were howling at the moon and foaming at the mouth full of hate and anger.

Well excuse me for not fitting into your box . I do not march in lock step with radicals who think their philosophy is main-stream. The world has tried your brand of progressive governance for a century and it is imploding on itself.

Smoke and mirrors Tom I'm more attuned to what we used to call One Nation than your idea of liberalism. The Dems as you call them are rightly aggrieved because their programs are blocked. The idea behind representative government is that each Party has an opportunity to implement their policies according to the will of the electorate. You have a system which is designed specifically to prevent such an outcome. This is not democracy, it is entrenched autocracy and as to our system imploding upon itself, far from it, we give you the lie Tom social welfare programs with small debt and sometimes even balanced budgets. How do we do it; fair taxation, balanced programmes and above all parliamentary and executive responsibility. You cannot do that because you don't understand consencious

This is not democracy It is a Republican government with checks written into it to guard against the abuses of a levithian state . I can't speak to your system ;but what you saw at the Dem convention was a bunch of 2% elites trying to salve their guilty conscious by taking money from other people to pay for their utopian experiments .

No Tom what I saw were people who had a vision of a better, fairer nation, not a nation for the privileged 1% but for all. All you are complaining about is it might cost you some of your prescious money. Do you remember what happened to the Roman republic, to the French republic, they both became imperial states and tyranny reigned supreme. Cast aside your republican dream of a 1% utopia and embrace the people

Do you remember what happened to the Roman republic, to the French republic, they both became imperial states and tyranny reigned supreme.

Yes I have often quoted de Tocqueville's prescient warnings on what would bring that about.

No Tom what I saw were people who had a vision of a better, fairer nation, not a nation for the privileged 1% but for all.

A vision of a few elites who deplore our constitution and think fair is stealing from one to create a permanently dependent citizenry. I'll keep my freedom thank you very much.

Setting deadlines and taking action so you can implement them are two different things something about talk and action which you fail to understand

time and circumstance Tom policy is one thio\ng and implementation another something you don't understand. Must be a Republican thing. They have a so let it be written so let it be done mentality

He made healthcare available to more people, it all comes at a cost
If he hadn't taken the action he did your auto industry would be dead today
You will exit Europe because you are not needed there, you will exit teh middle east because you are not needed there and you have become confrontational with China, you can't do that from the Atlantic.


And of course blaming Bush for the housing issue is also equally stupid..because the COmmunity Reinvestment act was spearheaded by a young lawyer names Barrak Obama back in the mid 80's....Was intstituted by BILL CLINTON, to force banks to give minorities homes they never stood a chance to actually pay for...

But then what does reality have to do with the Democrat platform anyway?




stop rewritting history without GW Bush there would have been no Iraq war



ah an admission Iraq was bush unfinished business. Interesting thing US ceasefires, it seems the people who suffer are the civilians, that applies to both Korea and Iraq



for most of us Tom the Korean war ended in 1953 we don't want to revisit it, it is another of those wars the US didn't "win"



and there is your problem, the Bush era tax system which created the debt blowout and you want to blame Obama for it. How can you run a country when teh peopel who earn teh money don't pay the taxes, what a rediculous policy

He didn't make healthcare affordible to anyone... he made it far more expensive for everyone... and that's before the 1.5 TRILLION dollar cost PER YEAR is added in if its ever allowed to continue.

And its going to dramatically REDUCE the availibility and quality of healthcare, because doctors are already planning on quitting their practices... some already have rather than work under that socialist mess.

I will give you a pass on not knowing this because you are on the other side of the planet and all you find out is through the highly biased rose colored glasses of Liberal partisans that jokingly call themselves Journalists.

THe average liberal here believes if they can't have something for free that you pay for... then nobody should be entitled to have it either.

THey will be outlawing BMW's and Mercedes Benz as well as other luxury brands next because most liberals can't afford those either so its unfair that those who can afford them be allowed to buy them.

And as far as Iraq... I figured you were a lot smarter person than someone who would utter that remark.


Contrary to your claims... I was there, was you?. that war did NOT start under G W Bush... it started before Clinton ever took office... It started under Dady Bush after Saddam invaded our Ally in the region Kuwait and threatened another ally Saudi Arabia.

And its willful ignorance to refust to accept that there was a UN brokered Cease fire agreement... and that a cease fire agreement by ANY acceptable definition is NOT the end of a war... and that was NO different than Korea... which still has millions of troops on both sides of the border waiting for someone to break the cease fire.

Saddam Hussein... DID violate that agreement a number of times... they also DID find like 240 METRIC TONS of yellowcake uranium IN IRAQ where the liberals claim it never existed that was publicly reported and transported to Canada where it was reprocessed. Its also well known by EVERY government that the stockpiles of Nerve gas Saddam had were transported into Syria where they remain to this time.

Ever wonder why no country has sent in troops to end that civil war over there? You got it, the stocks of WMD's, Nerve and Chemical agents Assad has.

Of course if you listen to the lefty media... the USA is the only country in history to possess such arms... not Russia, not North Korea, not any other country... because the left hates America.

..they also DID find like 240 METRIC TONS of yellowcake uranium IN IRAQ
You realize that yellowcake uranium is naturally occurring right?
If you have a 10 by 20 metre lawn, then the top metre of soil will have around 1 kg of uranium in it.
Also if you check into this, you'll quickly find that the uranium a) was not weapons grade and b) was well known to the UN and IAEA and was being stored legally by Saddam's government. It was legally in Iraq according to international law.

Simmer down righties, we know you are only holding the door open for your oligarchs and religious leaders to extract wealth and be dependent on your idea of charity so you can justify being peed on from above is healthy rain.

I KNOW, liberal straw man arguments against conservative truth, justice and the conser... I mean... American way!

Blah, Blah, and more BLAH! Explain record profits and no jobs. I can fire the self proclaimed job creators, and hire back the REAL job creators... consumers!!

And leave Science and economics to people who are qualified and rational and not stuck in conservative mind set insanity.

You realize that yellowcake uranium is naturally occuring right?
If you have a 10 by 20 metre lawn, then the top metre of soil will have around 1 kg of uranium in it.
Also if you check into this, you'll quickly find that the uranium a) was not weapons grade and b) was well known to the UN and IAEA and was being stored legally by Saddam's government. It was legally in Iraq according to international law.

Right... you find HUGE veins of yellow cake just like you find coal... right? No it's a lot more complicated than that...

Would YOU want to go play in a pile of it... or put some on your food? Ever hear of dirty bombs?

And incidentally... where do you live where you can find Uranium in those sort of high concentrations... because I don't want to live there or anywhere near there.

My entire property doesn't have anything like that on it and I own a LOT more land than that...

You don't find uranium in comerically recoverable concentrations in all that many places... just like you won't find, gold copper or silver either.

And in the places you do... its not even in concentrations that high.

Hello again,

What I find interesting, is that we appeared to have watched TWO different conventions... I WATCHED the Republican one. I understood it too.

Maybe liberals use too many big words. I don't mean to insult you guys. I know that you're smart... But, I didn't hear ANYONE say they want people to be dependent on government. You did, huh?

I think that's why you're going to lose. MOST of the people heard what was actually said...

excon

Simmer down righties, we know you are only holding the door open for your oligarchs and religious leaders to extract wealth and be dependent on your idea of charity so you can justify being peed on from above is healthy rain.

I KNOW, liberal straw man arguments against conservative truth, justice and the conser......I mean............American way!

Blah, Blah, and more BLAH! Explain record profits and no jobs. I can fire the self proclaimed job creators, and hire back the the REAL job creators.........................consumers!!!!

And leave Science and economics to people who are qualified and rational and not stuck in conservative mind set insanity.

SO how many people did YOU hire the last four years, and what's your excuse for not hireing a lot more?

SO how many people did YOU hire the last four years, and whats your excuse for not hireing a lot more?What do you think the ratio of business owners to employees is? I'm curious.

Consumers don't hire, they buy and create DEMAND often lost in your supply side economics. Demand is DOWN because consumers don't have any revenue streams thanks to the smoke and mirror, supply side, bubble driven, redirection of wealth upward for the last 30 years.

And aided mostly by tax cuts during a recession caused by the high class robbery that you righties approved of and held the door open for.

And keep your hands off my Medicare and social security, and that goes for my kids and grand kids to.

What do you think the ratio of business owners to employees is? I'm curious.

He claimed is the consumers that creat all the jobs... since he has never indicated he was rich in any thread I've read of his, he then implies HE is one of the job creators... therefor if the unemployment rates.. the REAL ones are so high.. then its Liberals such as him that are responsible for it... not the rich people they have been blaming it on.

Funny how the left blames the wealthy for NOT creating enough jobs then in the next breath claim the rich aren't the job creators that THEY actually are...

Talk about the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

Consumers don't hire, they buy and create DEMAND often lost in your supply side economics. Demand is DOWN because consumers don't have any revenue streams thanks to the smoke and mirror, supply side, bubble driven, redirection of wealth upward for the last 30 years.

And aided mostly by tax cuts during a recession caused by the high class robbery that you righties approved of and held the door open for.

And keep your hands off my Medicare and social security, and that goes for my kids and grand kids to.

WHo owns those businesses then, who took the risked and the choices to grow them? Its not the Things that infest Public housing projects?

Obama defuned Medicare by 750 BILLION dollars in the Obamacare mess... you better put the blame where it belongs... on YOUR messiah.

And iots the lefties that have been handing out SSI benefits to the fat and lazy who have never paid in or have paid little in... and to the immigrants that got handed green cards in their late 50's and 60's that never paid much in for the reason its gone bankrupt.

And you are a fool if you think the Democrats haven't done more than their fair share of raiding those fuds over the last 6 or 7 DECADES and spending it on other things... Don't lay that on the republicans. Obama did it, Clinton did it too... and so did Jimmy carter and every Democrat administration before them... as well as every Democrat controlled congress that has existed since SSI was created.

Its not the Things that infest Public housing projects?Yes we are well aware of your racial views.

He claimed is the consumers that creat all the jobs...since he has never indicated he was rich in any thread I've read of his, he then implies HE is one of the job creators....therefor if the unemployment rates..the REAL ones are so high..then its Liberals such as him that are responsible for it...not the rich people they have been blaming it on.

Funny how the left blames the wealthy for NOT creating enough jobs then in the next breath claim the rich aren't the job creators that THEY actually are...

Talk about the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

Read Tal's post above yours.

Read Tal's post above yours.

Read the one he made further up that I was responding to.

Hello again,

What I find interesting, is that we appeared to have watched TWO different conventions... I WATCHED the Republican one. I understood it too.

Maybe liberals use too many big words. I don't mean to insult you guys. I know that you're smart... But, I didn't hear ANYONE say they want people to be dependent on government. You did, huh?

I think that's why you're gonna lose. MOST of the people heard what was actually said...

excon

Julia.

Nice rant, you guys are so good at it, but you have never mentioned not once how rich guys called themselves job creators and never created jobs but bonuses, golden parachutes, overseas accounts, and foreign sweat shops. Through a global fiscal crisis they continue to make wealth for themselves through extractions and financial schemes that created no value for any one but themselves.

Then they turn around and repeat the lies that hide there own culpability in screwing things up. That's why more tax cuts and smaller government work for them, and that's what they get with you guys, but of course that what you want. More wealth through tax cuts and corporate welfare while the shop owner, or consumer can't get a line of credit, without a really high interest rate, or collateral up the ying yang to keep his small business going.

Yeah, can't wait for Romney to stop lying so you guys can stop repeating the lies, and tell us the things he will cut to balance the budget and pay for his huge tax cut to himself. Or how he creates the opportunity to make more people less dependent on your BOGUS nanny state.

No I am not rich, but am experienced in thriving and surviving, and calling it like it is. And doing the math despite the sham you guys swallow hook, line, and sinker!

It's ARITHMETIC, Stupid
23 million Americans are out of work, have stopped looking for work, or are underemployed.If the number of people were in the workforce as there were when Obama took office ,unemployment would be 11.4% .The only reason the jobless rate fell in August(by a modest 0.2%,) was 368,000 people left the labor force, pushing labor force participation down to a 31-year low of 63.5%.And yet Alan Krueger, chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, praised the number as evidence of an improved economy. He must be a former Choom Gang member . There are 133.3 million Americans working .When Obama took office there were 133.561 million exposing the President's lie that 4.5 million new jobs were created under his watch.['You didn't elect me to tell you what you wanted to hear,you elected me to tell you the truth'. ]

The White House actually boasts about 96,000 new payroll jobs (less than 2000 per State and 4x the number of people who left the workforce giving up looking for work ) .Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke said the U.S. must create 150,000 to 200,000 jobs per month to cover new workers coming out of school and providing jobs for the current job seekers.
We've had 43 straight months of 8% or higher unemployment... an infamous record. The CBO says that "under current law" (budgets passed by a Democrat dominated Congress and signed by Obama ) unemployment will surge to 9.1% next year ;and the U.S. economy will go into double dip recession. Why are we still operating under the failed policies of Pelosi /Reid /Obama ? Because the do nothing Senate has failed to act on either the President's proposed budgets submitted ,or budgets passed by the House since 2011.

Instead of detailed the 'truth' ,the President spead a litany of lies during his address promising everything to everyone who wants to dip into the taxpayers money .He did this despite the truth that we just topped $16 trillion in national debt (that's $50,000 for every American... an increase of $4.939 Trillion in the 3 1/2 years since Obama took office; It went up $4.899 Trillion during the 8 years of the Bush presidency. ); and we have unsustainable future entitlement obligations .

4 straight trillion dollar budget deficits in a row -- more than any other president combined-brought us to a national debt that is over 100% of GDP .He promised a $4 trillion reduction in the deficit over the next decade. But according to the CBO his budget ( submitted to Congress in February ) would add $3.5 trillion in deficits,NOT reduce them (no wonder Reid won't pass his plan) .
He promised FDR like 'bold experimentation ' without mentioning Roosevelt's record of failure. Under FDR the poor disastrous unemployment rate was virtually unchanged after 8 years in office,

On other OP's the phony social wars are being kept alive to deflect and distract from this arithmetic. But it is these numbers that will determine the result of this election.

It's ARITHMETIC, Stupid
23 million Americans are out of work, have stopped looking for work, or are underemployed.Hello again, tom:

Yeah, yeah, yeah... What you say is TRUE, but it's STILL Bush's fault...

Let me ask you this... Let's say your daughter was RAPED, oh about 4 years ago. You send her to a good doctor to help her... But, it's taking a LONG time for her to recover...

Do you blame the doctor for that, or the rapist?? Never mind.. You don't have to answer.

excon

Hello again, tom:

Yeah, yeah, yeah... What you say is TRUE, but it's STILL Bush's fault...

Lemme ask you this... Let's say your daughter was RAPED, oh about 4 years ago. You send her to a good doctor to help her... But, it's taking a LONG time for her to recover...

Do you blame the doctor for that, or the rapist??? Never mind.. You don't have to answer.

excon

Is abortion the only issue the Obama supporters have left ? You have a new OP going and the one about the War on Women got over 500 replies. I've said all I have to say on the issue .

Hello again, tom:

Abortion is the OTHER thread... I just used the rape thing to show you that it is similar to the economy and who to BLAME for it... You want to blame ONE guy, and I want to blame the other...

Show me one good reason to blame Obama, and I will. But, I'm not buying it's been 3 years, so he owns it now... That's pure unadulterated right wing CRAP!

excon

That was the argument used by the Dems on GHW Bush is 1988 after a mild recession.That was the argument used by Jimmy C in 1976 against Ford . So what you are telling me is that after 3 1/2 years of no improvement ,that he and his failed polices should be rewarded with another 4 years ? Yeah you did drink the koolaid, He says he is going to mimic the FDR plan ? But unemployment was almost 20% 8 years into Roosevelt's term . His policies prolonged the depression, just like Obama's policies are prolonging the recession. . So we know the path he's leading us on is a path to failure.

So we know the path he's leading us on is a path to failure.Hello again, tom:

I don't know that... What I KNOW, is that MASSIVE government spending due to WW II, got us OUT of the depression and sent us on a 30 year wave of unprecedented prosperity.

excon

They'd just waste it on toilets (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/lets-talk-racism-697931-16.html#post3263501) and Solyndras.

Hello again, tom:

I don't know that... What I KNOW, is that MASSIVE government spending due to WW II, got us OUT of the depression and sent us on a 30 year wave of unprecedented prosperity.

excon

There was 100 % mobiliization during the war ,so yes unemployment was low during the war years . Coming out of the war we were pretty much the only game in town with our economic competitors being sort of bombed to the stone age. Still there were routine recessions between 1945 and 1963 . After that ,Kennedy did some supply side tax cuts on personal and corporate rates , and we had that 'unprecedented prosperity 'through the Johnson term. Then at the end of that 30 year cycle of 'unprecedented prosperity'we had the shock of the Arab Oil embargo that cost Ford the election to Carter .

Lucky for us there was a President in that period who understood the path to prosperity .

“It is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now … Cutting taxes now is not to incur a budget deficit, but to achieve the more prosperous, expanding economy which can bring a budget surplus.”
John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, president’s news conference

“Lower rates of taxation will stimulate economic activity and so raise the levels of personal and corporate income as to yield within a few years an increased – not a reduced – flow of revenues to the federal government.”
John F. Kennedy, Jan. 17, 1963, annual budget message to the Congress, fiscal year 1964

“In today’s economy, fiscal prudence and responsibility call for tax reduction even if it temporarily enlarges the federal deficit – why reducing taxes is the best way open to us to increase revenues.”
John F. Kennedy, Jan. 21, 1963, annual message to the Congress: “The Economic Report Of The President”

“It is no contradiction – the most important single thing we can do to stimulate investment in today’s economy is to raise consumption by major reduction of individual income tax rates.”
John F. Kennedy, Jan. 21, 1963, annual message to the Congress: “The Economic Report Of The President”

“Our tax system still siphons out of the private economy too large a share of personal and business purchasing power and reduces the incentive for risk, investment and effort – thereby aborting our recoveries and stifling our national growth rate.”
John F. Kennedy, Jan. 24, 1963, message to Congress on tax reduction and reform, House Doc. 43, 88th Congress, 1st Session.

“A tax cut means higher family income and higher business profits and a balanced federal budget. Every taxpayer and his family will have more money left over after taxes for a new car, a new home, new conveniences, education and investment. Every businessman can keep a higher percentage of his profits in his cash register or put it to work expanding or improving his business, and as the national income grows, the federal government will ultimately end up with more revenues.”
John F. Kennedy, Sept. 18, 1963, radio and television address to the nation on tax-reduction bill


“In those countries where income taxes are lower than in the United States, the ability to defer the payment of U.S. tax by retaining income in the subsidiary companies provides a tax advantage for companies operating through overseas subsidiaries that is not available to companies operating solely in the United States. Many American investors properly made use of this deferral in the conduct of their foreign investment.”

John F. Kennedy, April 20, 1961, message to Congress on taxation

“Our present tax system … exerts too heavy a drag on growth … It reduces the financial incentives for personal effort, investment, and risk-taking … The present tax load … distorts economic judgments and channels an undue amount of energy into efforts to avoid tax liabilities.”

John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, press conference

“The present tax codes … inhibit the mobility and formation of capital, add complexities and inequities which undermine the morale of the taxpayer, and make tax avoidance rather than market factors a prime consideration in too many economic decisions.”
John F. Kennedy, Jan. 23, 1963, special message to Congress on tax reduction and reform

“In short, it is a paradoxical truth that … the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now. The experience of a number of European countries and Japan have borne this out. This country’s own experience with tax reduction in 1954 has borne this out. And the reason is that only full employment can balance the budget, and tax reduction can pave the way to that employment. John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, news conference

“The largest single barrier to full employment of our manpower and resources and to a higher rate of economic growth is the unrealistically heavy drag of federal income taxes on private purchasing power, initiative and incentive.”
John F. Kennedy, Jan. 24, 1963, special message to Congress on tax reduction and reform

“A bill will be presented to the Congress for action next year. It will include an across-the-board, top-to-bottom cut in both corporate and personal income taxes. It will include long-needed tax reform that logic and equity demand … The billions of dollars this bill will place in the hands of the consumer and our businessmen will have both immediate and permanent benefits to our economy. Every dollar released from taxation that is spent or invested will help create a new job and a new salary. And these new jobs and new salaries can create other jobs and other salaries and more customers and more growth for an expanding American economy.”
– John F. Kennedy, Aug. 13, 1962, radio and television report on the state of the national economy

So what did you guys do with those Bush tax cuts?? You didn't pay off the deficit, two wars or create jobs. Where did those trillions go?

Every dollar released from taxation that is spent or invested will help create a new job and a new salary. And these new jobs and new salaries can create other jobs and other salaries and more customers and more growth for an expanding American economy.”
– John F. Kennedy, Aug. 13, 1962, radio and television report on the state of the national economyHello again, tom:

There is a rate of taxation that meets our obligation... We're BELOW that now... If government is too big, let's cut it, instead of starving it. We don't want to leave WHERE to cut to the bureaucrats, do we?? Nahhhh.. We want to TELL them where to cut..

But, the cost of government and how we pay for it, ISN'T what my earlier post was directed at.. Although the deficit IS important, like D1ck Cheney, I believe deficits don't matter. At least they don't matter in the SHORT run, as long as there's a plan to pay it back.

My post above meant that when there's HIGH unemployment and industry ISN'T spending, there's only ONE entity left to spend, and when they DO, as we did at the beginning of WW II, economy's RECOVER.

We're no different... The stim kept us afloat for a couple years, and then it ran out. It wasn't big enough, and NONE of it should have been in the form of tax cuts, which we did to please the Republicans... Now, we're bouncing along the bottom and nobody is doing ANYTHING...

The time to pay back the deficit is when the economy is rip roaring. We HAD a time like that during George W. Bush's administration... What he did instead, is create an even larger deficit...

excon

If government is too big, let's cut it
You are beginning to sound like a conservative Tea Partier
My point is that we have almost the highest cap gains taxes in the free world . Stimulus spending ;cheap money policies are what is holding the economy back (along with uncertainty )..

cheap money policies are what is holding the economy back (along with uncertainty )..Hello again, tom:

Cheap money holding BACK progress?? That's exactly backwards...

Oh, yeah... There's that "uncertainty" word again... From a businessman's point of view, if I DON'T invest into an opportunity that presents itself, because I'm "uncertain", then my competitors, who AREN'T uncertain, will, and I'm Out of business... The marketplace doesn't offer SECOND chances. I thought you right wingers understood how business works.. No, huh?

Besides, as a businessman, there's NEVER been certainty out there. The ONLY certainty I've EVER experienced in business, is that there's NO certainty... People who WANT certainty before they invest, should keep their jobs a Coca Cola.

Uncertainty, is a POLITICAL word invented to pry MORE tax breaks out of the middle class and the poor...

excon

Draining resources from the private sector to expand the public sector isn't a good model, but that's your guy's vision. He could learn some math from Oklahoma where I am today.

Oklahoma model wins in clash of economic visions (http://mobi.newsok.com/oklahoma-model-wins-in-clash-of-economic-visions/article/3707177?custom_click=pod_headline_opinion-oklahoman-editorials)

Ex as a business man do you not budget ? Maybe not ; but across the country in the 4th qtr . Businesses are now budgetting for the entire fiscal year. I'm not making this up . I submit my budget for my dept this time of year too. I can tell you for a fact that many companies like mine are in hiring freezes right now due to the uncertainly you scoff at . Now maybe you are in a unique business that bucks the national trend . But business leaders around the country are saying the same thing about the so called 'Taxmageddon' or "fiscal cliff" .You can look it up if you don't believe me .There are thousands of web sites with advice for businesses on how to prepare for it . Not only are business people and business associations saying it ,but so is the Fed ,the CBO ,and the IMF .
Failure to extend current tax rates across the board will increase taxes on small businesses by $4.6 trillion over 10 year.
On top of that ,the regulations coming from Dodd-Frank and Obamacare are still up in the air . There are many more coming unless they are repealed .

A cheap dollar in theory keeps interest rates low and money fluid . Is that happening ? And why not ? Like it or not ,it's that uncertainty thingy.But let's look at the record . Has all the Fed's easing had any impact on the economy ? We are very lucky it hasn't resulted in Weimar like inflation. Volcker kept the dollar strong even in the face of an economic downturn ;and that helped lead to a strong extended recovery.

But business leaders around the country are saying the same thing about the so called 'Taxmageddon' or "fiscal cliff" Hello again, tom:

I don't doubt that business "leaders" are saying that.. What I doubt is whether they're leaders at all. They sound like caretakers to me.

The fundamentals of my business are no different than it is for LARGE ones... The difference is, I'm NOT a caretaker. I can't afford to be.. My competitors are viscous. If I don't move when the market is RIGHT, I'm DONE. I operate on a thin edge. I don't have the luxury of TIME to consider my decisions... And, EVEN if I did, UNCERTAINTY wouldn't be one of the factors that drives my decisions.. In fact, I laugh at the thought of not investing because of "uncertainty"... Uncertainty is what an entrepreneur BANKS on. If it was so certain, EVERYBODY would be an entrepreneur. If it was so certain, there wouldn't be any money to be made.. It's the uncertainty that makes your payday BIG. It's NOT like driving a truck for Coca Cola...

The people you're citing are NOT citing realistic business practices... It's from the MOON business stuff.. NOBODY who wants to MAKE money can DO what they say they're doing... You know it too. The stuff I'm telling you DOESN'T sound like it's coming from the moon, does it??

The ONLY reason a businessman would say that is POLITICAL...

excon

Don't blame Obama for this crap, blame the congress for not compromising a grand deal, and then not reaching consensus on the sequester. That's what happens when you have gridlock because you oppose everything the president proposes because the entire republican party from day one was out to make sure he got booted in 2012,soyou could rob the middle class some more.

And this uncertainty BS from business is an excuse to sit and wait for the repubs to deliver them more loot without working for it. All this uncertainty hasn't stopped CEO's from cashing in, or donating to their local politicians at all. You guys are really scared of all those government contracts being canceled aren't you.

And sorry speech, they didn't do it on their own!!

Oklahoma Recovery & Reinvestment - Home (http://www.ok.gov/recovery/)

Stimulus articles from NewsOK and The Oklahoman | Newsok.com (http://newsok.com/stimulus)

Oklahoma stimulus allocations - Sunshine Review (http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/Oklahoma_stimulus_allocations)

Another example of you guys trying to take credit away from a president by LYING!!

You guys figure it out, see you on the gridiron instead.

So long enjoy the game

You guys figure it out, see you on the gridiron instead.

And the baseball diamond!!

And the baseball diamond!!!!!!!!

Good of y'all to show up still with no chance of catching me. :p

I thought you were going to the game

I did, still letting you guys do the math here.

Back to arithmetic. Durable goods orders fell 13.2 percent in August, the lowest in 4 years. Nondefense new orders for capital goods in August decreased 24.3 percent. Unfilled orders dropped, inventories rose. Yep, Obama has this economy roaring back to life.

Yep, Obama has this economy roaring back to life.Hello again, Steve:

Wow... It's either one or the other with you guys, isn't it? He gave a speech in Cairo - you think he SOLVED the Mid East crisis.. When you find out he didn't, he's the worst man around.. When he was elected, you thought racism was over... When you found out it wasn't, Obama is a bad man...

Now, that he's got the economy TURNED around, you think we should be fully employed and buying bling again... When you find out that a turnaround doesn't mean that, Obama is a socialist...

But, NONE of that matters... No president has been reelected with unemployment above 8%. It SHOULDN'T happen. But it's going to. I don't think Obama is going to WIN this election.. I think Romney is going to LOSE it.

excon

There you go again. I don't think Obama has solved anything. In fact, it's only going to get worse.

The IRS has gone rogue (http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/328523/irs-has-gone-rogue-michael-f-cannon#)

Time for Obama to come clean about his arithmetic.

By early January 2010, Democrats were trying to iron out a compromise between the House and Senate bills that could clear both chambers. On January 11, eleven House Democrats from the Texas delegation sent a letter to President Obama, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D. Calif.), and House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D. Md.). They demanded “a single, national health insurance exchange, as adopted by the House,” rather than the Senate bill's “weak, state-based health insurance exchanges.” The Senate bill “relies” on states to implement exchanges, they warned, even though “a number of states opposed to health reform have already expressed an interest in obstruction.”

HHS Awards New Health Exchange Grants to Five States (http://www.governing.com/news/federal/gov-hhs-awards-new-health-exchange-grants-to-five-more-states.html)

SEE NOTE UNDER MAP.

Reds states are actually using federal money for implementig exchanges to hire lawyers to fight the ACA.

http://doughertyinsurance.com/2011/04/21/obamacare-opt-out-states-turn-down-money-for-the-laws-new-insurance-exchanges/


State officials fear that taking even one dollar of the money would run the risk of the federal government running health care in Oklahoma.

We know NOW that its been settled and if a state succeeds with a market based exchange, they too qualify for tax exemptions especially in the area of successfully insuring the low income people of their state. Now if they DON'T, the FEDS will step in, and that's the difference Speech, in making the arithmetic work correctly.

Its like Ex points out, its NOT a solution, it's the structure for a solution to be found. OOOOPS have to use that word again, it's the beginning of a PROCESS of finding what works, and what doesn't. Unlike you guys who make laws and say it's a solution with no consideration for PROCESS, we think about the HOW of solving THE real problem.

HHS Awards New Health Exchange Grants to Five States (http://www.governing.com/news/federal/gov-hhs-awards-new-health-exchange-grants-to-five-more-states.html)

SEE NOTE UNDER MAP.

Reds states are actually using federal money for implementig exchanges to hire lawyers to fight the ACA.

http://doughertyinsurance.com/2011/04/21/obamacare-opt-out-states-turn-down-money-for-the-laws-new-insurance-exchanges/



We know NOW that its been settled and if a state succeeds with a market based exchange, they too qualify for tax exemptions especially in the area of succesfully insuring the low income people of their state. Now if they DON'T, the FEDS will step in, and thats the difference Speech, in making the arithmetic work correctly.

Its like Ex points out, its NOT a solution, its the structure for a solution to be found. OOOOPS have to use that word again, its the beginning of a PROCESS of finding what works, and what doesn't. Unlike you guys who make laws and say its a solution with no consideration for PROCESS, we think about the HOW of solving THE real problem.

What part of the IRS illegally imposing taxes without consent of Congress don't you understand?

Just because you say that's what they are doing doesn't mean they are, and all you have to do is reread your own link, and update your data.

Speaking of math again, the White House suddenly has an interest in it. With his sequestration deal approaching he wants contractors to hold off on not issuing the required 60 day layoff notices (http://www.nationaljournal.com/nationalsecurity/white-house-moves-to-head-off-sequester-layoffs-20120928) because those layoff numbers might hinder his election numbers.

Not only that, but in another classic late Friday move that no one pays attention to, his OMB issued a guidance that's going to let taxpayers pay for those defense workers not to work (http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/memoranda/2012/m-12-19.pdf).

What the heck did he think would happen with those defense cuts? Further proof the only math that matters to Obama is number One. Screw the rest of us.

What the heck did he think would happen with those defense cuts? Hello again, Steve:

Hellloooooo... Earth to Steve... Congress did the sequester, NOT Obama.

There ain't nothing more to say about that.

excon

Hello again, Steve:

Hellloooooo... Earth to Steve... Congress did the sequester, NOT Obama.

There ain't nothing more to say about that.

excon

Blame Prince Harry Ried... Congress has sent SEVERAL budgets to the Senate that Harry the self proclaimed emporer without a clue... has refused to allow to come up for a vote.

Hello again, Steve:

Hellloooooo... Earth to Steve... Congress did the sequester, NOT Obama.

There ain't nothing more to say about that.

excon

Earth to ex, Democrats took the credit (http://washingtonexaminer.com/senate-dems-tout-deeply-destructive-sequestration-bill-as-their-accomplishment/article/2509239#.UGm0gK7pzKc), now they want to scam us to win an election.

Hello again, Steve:

I read the article.. Although it SCREAMED about those terrible Democrats, it only MENTIONS one, Tim Kaine, and he criticized the sequester too.

excon

Yeah, Kaine is concerned we might lose a few bureaucrats. Sure sounds to me like Dems were excited about it as a budget cutter while saving entitlements.


“Democrats passed legislation to reduce the deficit by more than $2 trillion,” reads a memo from the Democratic Policy and Communications summarizing the “Accomplishments of the 112th Congress” obtained by The Washington Examiner. “By passing the Budget Control Act (BCA), the Senate avoided a catastrophic national default being threatened by congressional Republicans. The Act is a bipartisan compromise that establishes overall spending levels and will reduce the deficit by $2.1 trillion over ten years. The BCA calls for the largest package of spending cuts in the history of the United States, while protecting Social Security, Medicare beneficiaries, and programs for the most vulnerable.”

I'd say they have all sides covered on this, privately boasting, publicly criticizing, and scamming the taxpayers to boot.

Congress should do its job and cut a deal, then all this other BS goes away. How far will repubs go to protect their sacred job creators? You guys are just mad you have boxed yourself into a corner trying to justify a further tax cut (5 trillion bucks) at the expense of the safety net, and most of your candidates cannot reveal the specifics on how you deficit hawks are paying for it.

Again, you guys deny the math and miss the whole point of fact. The republican budgets don't add up unless you are already really rich.

More republican straw arguments about doom, and gloom to hide the fact you guys love your bosses more than yourselves, and will do whateer YOU are told.

That's not rain its PEE! And America will stand up to rich bullies telling LIES!!

That's not rain its PEE! And America will stand up to rich bullies telling LIES!!

Yeah, and they can start with George Soros and Jon Corzine.


How far will repubs go to protect their sacred job creators?

Funny, but it was Dems who passed the WARN act with veto-proof majorities to force employers to give a 60 day notice before layoffs. Now they want to pay employers to violate their own law and keep employees in the dark. At least until after November.

It's Dems screwing the workers dude, not us.

Congress should do its job and cut a deal, then all this other BS goes away.

Its congress screwing the workers and that's what repubs want! Screwed workers.

No it isn't except if by 'Congress' you mean the Senate ,led by the official spokesperson for the Mormon Church... Harry Reid (aka Grima Wormtongue )

Yeah I gotz more .

I am waiting to see how long the unions stay silent regarding the sequestration. BY LAW, lay off notices MUST be sent out to the DOD subcontractors four days prior to the election in order to meet the notice provisions of the law. News sources are saying Obama, contrary to the law (what else is new) has sent out correspondence saying these notices ARE NOT to be sent out. He does not want a backlash at the polls. Virginia and other states have high numbers of these employees. Hey! These families have a right to know their jobs are on the line. Democrats are trying to say this is a political move. No - it is the law. Government requires that these people have a notification prior to lay off.

Interesting... this guy has time to go on the View and Letterman and do fundraisers ,but does not have the time to meet with members of Congress or world leaders.

Its congresses job to get the legislature to the presidents desk. Write congress to do their job. Oh that's right, they are on vacation again, oh well.

I write to Reid all the time demanding he pass a budget. Guess we need regime change in the Senate and the Presidency to get anything done.

Or get the HOUSE in order.

And as I said before, the WARN Act was passed by Democrats - Reagan did not sign it - so Obama is directing businesses to violate their own law at the expense of the workers who won't get the required notice.

Plus, we the taxpayers will foot the bill (http://www.nationaljournal.com/nationalsecurity/white-house-moves-to-head-off-sequester-layoffs-20120928) for any employer who follows this directive.


the company could treat employee compensation costs for WARN Act liability, attorneys’ fees and other litigation costs as allowable costs to be covered by the contracting agency

So under Obama corporations get a pass and the workers and taxpayers get screwed. What do you not get about this that's WRONG? You're the one railing about evil corporations screwing workers, where's your outrage Tal?

Hello again, Steve:

Seems to me that since congress passed the sequestration, and it requires employers to do something BAD to their employees, that it's CONGRESS'S fault...

The IDEA, of course, was so that congress would act BEFORE some of the bad stuff starts to happen - and they're NOT... That looks, AGAIN, like it's congress's fault.

I'm not sure what you're complaining about here... Do you WANT those layoff's to happen? Do you WANT chaos to reign? Tell me.. I'm all ears.

excon

Hello again, Steve:

Seems to me that since congress passed the sequestration, and it requires employers to do something BAD to their employees, that it's CONGRESS'S fault...

The IDEA, of course, was so that congress would act BEFORE some of the bad stuff starts to happen - and they're NOT... That looks, AGAIN, like it's congress's fault.

I'm not sure what you're complaining about here... Do you WANT those layoff's to happen?? Do you WANT chaos to reign? Tell me.. I'm all ears.

excon

You want congress to violate their own law, not give employees a 60 day notice and make the taxpayers pay for the violations? That's a rather immoral view of things.

You want congress to violate their own lawHello Steve:

You're not GETTING me.. I want congress to FIX what they did. They don't have to VIOLATE any laws to do that... NOT doing that, would violate the law..

Look.. This is pretty simple. You think Obama is responsible for the do nothing congress.. I don't.

excon

Oh I get it just fine, do you? How does that make it OK to force taxpayers to subsidize corporations to violate the law and leave workers in the lurch?

Seems really clear the administration is sending a strong message to the congress to avoid another debacle caused by their inaction. The country paid dearly for the credit crisis last sumer and was downgraded in credit ratings beause congress didn't act.

Sure the public will again suffer if the congress doesn't act.Thats where my outrage is directed, at the do nothing congress, not the guy who signs it IF they do act. You forget the sequester was congress's punting the issue down the road in the first place.

You don't get congress has the ball right now, and yet again they are facing yet another deadline for action. I read the whole act and the penalties by LAW that the companies can claim.

You mean they haven't had time to solve this mess? I say they have, and should do their jobs. My outrage is they have NOT and that makes this a manufactered crisis. Self inflicted consequences we all know about will follow.

The new Bob Woodward book has sort of blown that narrative out of the water .

Direct quotes from the book

"Lew and Nabors went to the Senate to meet with Reid(aka Wormtongue) and his chief of staff, David Krone. ‘We have an idea for the trigger,’ Lew said. ‘What’s the idea?’ Reid asked skeptically. ‘Sequestration.’ Reid bent down and put his head between his knees, almost as if he were going to throw up or was having a heart attack. He sat back up and looked at the ceiling. ‘A couple of weeks ago,’ he said, ‘my staff said to me that there is one more possible’ enforcement mechanism: sequestration. He said he told them, ‘Get the hell out of here. That’s insane. The White House surely will come up with a plan that will save the day. And you come to me with sequestration?’ Well, it could work, Lew and Nabors explained. What would the impact be? They would design it so that half the threatened cuts would be from the Defense Department. ‘I like that,’ Reid said. ‘That’s good. It doesn’t touch Medicaid or Medicare, does it?’ It actually does touch Medicare, they replied. ‘How does it touch Medicare?’ It depends, they said. There’s versions with 2 percent cuts, and there’s versions with 4 percent cuts.”

"Simply put, the White House and the Democrats were going to be able to sell a deal to their rank and file because of Defense cuts".


(Bob Woodward, "The Price Of Politics," )

Reid intentionally has used sequestration as a bargaining chip .

Democrats Want Leverage From Sequester : Roll Call News (http://www.rollcall.com/issues/58_5/Democrats-Want-Leverage-From-Sequester-216131-1.html)

The bottom line is that the President had a super committee that made recommendations ;and then he let their plan die on the shelf and his staff came up with sequestration as a ploy to force the Repubics to accept the Dem tax increase schemes.

The congress doesn't make recommendations they make laws. They didn't and haven't and if sequestration was a leverage against republicans, why did republicans vote for it?

The bottom line is congress has to PRODUCE! Why do you keep trying to get away from that fact? Oh that's right, the president should do it all himself. And sequestration is a democratic plot to raise taxes.

It has been 1253 days, 3 years, 5 months, and 4 days since the Democrat controlled Senate has passed a budget. You can't reach a budget agreement if one side won't even offer a proposal. Democrats are the ones sitting on their hands doing nothing.

and if sequestration was a leverage against republicans, why did republicans vote for it?

Umm because Speaker Bonehead is kind of weak-kneed and did not want the negative press of a shutdown and the possibility of a downgrade . That's why I wouldn't become a Congressman. I have no problem with a gvt shut down.

Ah Tom you are just saying that, you know that if the government stops paying, even for a short time, everything grinds to a halt, so be realistic, down grade is inevietable while ever you spend more than you collect How many trillion of debt is there now $15,000,000,000,000,000,000, $16? $17? Do you know? do you care? You have been living with credit so long you think it's normal

What Tom fails to divuldge is that republicans use the deficit as an excuse to pound others over the head with.They had options to solve the problem, but solutions are not what they want. They want the power of government to enrich their financial overlords.

What alternative option... Obama thinks you can get out of debt by spending like a drunk sailor on liberty.

The same people that defend Obama doing this wouldn't even consider doing it themselves in their own lives.

ah Tom you are just saying that, you know that if the government stops paying, even for a short time, everything grinds to a halt
Not true . The gvt shut down twice under Reagan;once under GHW Bush ,and twice under Clintoon. It was not the end of the world .

did I say it was the end of the world but goodby recovery and up go the interest rates and the deficit. The Fed may not be able to hold those low interest rates for long, you need a devaluation and you need it bad I would say $1US=RMB1=$0.20AUD would be about right. Then you could start to pay a fair price

The same people that defend Obama doing this wouldn't even consider doing it themselves in their own lives.Hello again, smoothy:

Nahhhh.. I thought you wingers understood business.. No, huh?

Look.. I run a business. I OWE a lot of money on it.. But, there's a new store that became available... If I borrow MORE, then I can GROW*** the pie and my CUSTOMERS will pay the loan back - NOT me.

Now, if we, as a country, INVEST in roads and bridges, infrastructure, our broadband network, high speed rail, EDUCATION, and a few other things, then our country will GROW and the investment will be paid for out of THAT success...

Look.. Investment is good. Do you own a house? Did you borrow a BUNCH of money to buy it?

excon

*** I believe Mitt Romney says the same thing..

Some more arithmetic the jobs numbers have turned in favour of Obama with unemployment falling below 8%, 8% is apparently the magic number the pundits say would have kept Obama out of the White House

Want more right wing fuzzy math? They thought one butt kicking debate performance by the Mittman was going to get him elected.

They always think they can win with a bit of rhetoric, what else are politicians good fer

These libs, they're an amusing lot...


Why a President Romney would have Obama to thank for an economic recovery (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-a-president-romney-would-have-obama-to-thank-for-an-economic-recovery/2012/10/05/bcce947c-0d6d-11e2-a310-2363842b7057_story.html?wprss=rss_politics)

By Greg Ip, Published: October 5

Cast your mind forward to October 2014. The economic rebound for which Barack Obama had worked so hard and hoped so long is finally underway: Growth is humming, unemployment is steadily dropping, and the stock market is hitting one record high after another. But unfortunately for Obama, he’s not in the White House anymore — and President Mitt Romney is the man whose approval ratings are being carried aloft by the Dow.

Romney is widely considered to have won Wednesday night’s presidential debate by attacking Obama’s economic record and promising, if elected, to restore job growth and middle-class incomes. The irony is that, if Romney wins the election and the economy rebounds on his watch, much of the recovery will be due to efforts undertaken during the Obama administration.

Apparently Obama's awesomeness won't be manifest for another couple of years. So after 4 years of blaming Bush and a couple of years of Romney as prez, Obama can finally take credit for his awesome policies.

Wishfull thinking