View Full Version : Bella and her Lady
Alty
Aug 1, 2012, 05:13 PM
Our Bella needs support.
She has a beautiful, gentle, kind, rescue dog name Lady. Lady had many issues. Bella worked with her through all of them. Lady and Bella's young daughter "E" are best buds. Lady isn't a pitbull, but she falls under that qualification where narrow minded un-educated people are concerned. Not that it should matter if she is a pitbull. It really shouldn't.
Well, Lady is now re-homed to escape death. Why? Lady chased a cat that came into her yard. Yup, that's right, the cat was on Bella's property. The cat was injured, had to have it's leg amputated (if I'm getting the story right, please Bella, if I'm not, correct me).
Don't get me wrong, I feel horrible for the cat. I know that Bella does too. But the owner of the cat is now demanding that Lady be euthanized. How is that right?
There are dog laws coming out the wazoo! BSL, restrictions, leash laws, you name it. If my dog craps on your yard I could face hundreds in fines. But cats can go anywhere they want, go on to someone else's property, someone that has a dog, and when that dog does what's natural for all dogs to do, which is to chase the cat, the dog has to be killed?
How is that okay? How is that right?
Human beings have to start realizing that animals have just as many rights to be who and what they are, as humans do. If someone chooses to own a cat, then keep that cat safe. Don't allow it to go onto any property it chooses. It's your responsibility as the cats owner! Leash the cat. It's only right! I don't want cats on my property, because my dogs will chase them, and I want my dogs to live!
Dogs chase cats! It's well known! It's not a surprise! If your cat goes onto a property that owns a dog, whose fault is that? Not the dogs, not the cats, but yours! The dog shouldn't die for that! The owner should be fined for that! You should!
Makes me so mad! When did we all agree that cat owners could do whatever they want without consequences? Irresponsible ownership, that's what this is. But Bella and Lady, they're not the irresponsible ones. The cat owner is! :(
So mad. I'm probably rambling, and I'm sure WG could pick this post apart for spelling and grammar errors. I'm just so mad, so upset, in tears, and this isn't right! It's not right!
Please, support Bella and her Ladybug. Lady doesn't deserve to die because a cat owner didn't control her pet!
Wondergirl
Aug 1, 2012, 05:23 PM
Had it been my cat, rather than amputate the leg, I would have euthanized the cat. Cats don't belong outdoors (too many dangers).
Anything we can do? -- call, email, write letters?
Alty
Aug 1, 2012, 05:27 PM
Support WG. Bella is a wreck. Lady is her baby, and she just lost Max not that long ago. It seems to be a trend for the both of us, two dogs within months.
So far Lady is alive and well. Bella took her to a friend. But the owner of the cat is demanding that lady be killed. She wants her dead for something that's her fault, not Lady's, and no the cat's.
Wondergirl
Aug 1, 2012, 05:30 PM
So how does this stand? It's a legal matter? Up to the humane society? What determines if Lady lives or dies? She was just defending her turf.
I wouldn't think the woman would have much clout in getting Lady euthanized. The cat was trespassing, and Lady was not only defending her property (as all good dogs do), but going after an evil stranger.
Aurora_Bell
Aug 1, 2012, 05:32 PM
Aww thank you Alty. I volunteered to pay the vet bills. She just came to my door and told me it's $1100.00 to have the cats leg amputated, plus the $975.00 fine for removing a "dangerous dog" from the scene of an attack. If I didn't get her out she would be put down. I would be responsible for the cost of having her put down which would be roughly $900 as well.
There are no by laws in my county restricting cats to their properties, so you basically this cat can go where he/she pleases and apparently on my property to do it's business.
I'm devastated. I don't know what to say.
Wondergirl
Aug 1, 2012, 05:36 PM
Who would put Lady down?
Aurora_Bell
Aug 1, 2012, 05:39 PM
Wg, the AC officer told me lady would be impounded for two Weeks to monitor her behavior, remember bsl? The thing I fight so hard to keep out of deciding the fate of our family pets? Unfortunately lady gals under the dangerous breed category. They have a whole new set of rules.
Aurora_Bell
Aug 1, 2012, 05:40 PM
Falls not gals. Animal control can make the decision to have a dog destroyed.
Wondergirl
Aug 1, 2012, 05:40 PM
Don't these people have brains?
Alty
Aug 1, 2012, 05:40 PM
So how does this stand? It's a legal matter? Up to the humane society? What determines if Lady lives or dies? She was just defending her turf.
It's a toss up. BSL is a live and well in Canada. Lady is not a pitbull, but she falls into that category.
The cat's leg was amputated because of this incident, even though the cat trespassed on Bella's and Lady's property.
Fact is, if it is a legal matter, I don't have any faith that justice will be served. I don't know if you heard about Lennox, Wicca or Diesel. All dogs judged because of their breed. Lennox was jailed for years, and euthanized, because of how he looked. Two animal behaviorists assessed him and said he wasn't dangerous. Didn't matter, he was still killed.
The family fought for him in court, but the law ruled, and killed Lennox.
Lennox never even growled at anyone and he was killed. Wicca and Diesel are similar stories. Lennox was in Belfast. Wicca and Diesel, they're Canadian. Wicca was killed. Diesel is on death row, 17 months and counting.
Lady did attack a cat. Her fault? No! She's a dog! The cat was in her yard! Dogs are dogs! But will that matter?
After Lennox, Wicca, Diesel, and other dogs I've read about lately, I doubt that it will matter. They'll kill Lady just because she's a dog that looks like a pitbull, and the lady that's actually responsible, should be held accountable, the one with the pet she lets roam wherever it wants, won't even get fined.
That's how the law works right now. If you look like a pitbull, and someone complains, we'll kill you.
Let's hope that people don't start treating other human beings like that. Hmmmm... I don't like chinese, you look chinese. I think we should kill you. (just an example. I'm not that type of person).
Alty
Aug 1, 2012, 05:42 PM
Don't these people have brains?
The cat and Lady have more brains than these people.
Wondergirl
Aug 1, 2012, 05:44 PM
Let's hope that people don't start treating other human beings like that. Hmmmm... I don't like chinese, you look chinese. I think we should kill you. (just an example. I'm not that type of person).
Oh, that's already happening (again) in this country with Muslim-Americans. During WWII it was the Japanese-Americans.
Aurora_Bell
Aug 1, 2012, 05:44 PM
And bsl doesn't just effect pit bulls, it's avg dig with a square head. Also there are 4 breeds that make up a pit-bull, pit-bull is really just a blanket term that covers dogs of a similar appearance.
Wondergirl
Aug 1, 2012, 05:45 PM
How did the injury get so bad that amputation was needed? Usually cats can run faster than dogs, run up trees, etc
Aurora_Bell
Aug 1, 2012, 05:46 PM
She's a75lb dog, she attacked it. She ran after it and pounced on him.
Wondergirl
Aug 1, 2012, 05:48 PM
Usually cats can run faster than dogs, run up trees, etc. Did anyone see this? Is it an old cat? (I have always had cats, so this makes no sense to me.)
Aurora_Bell
Aug 1, 2012, 05:52 PM
I was at work, apparently lady jumped a 7ft fence and attacked the cat. I've only heard the story 2nd and 3rd hand...
Aurora_Bell
Aug 1, 2012, 05:52 PM
The cat was only a year old I was told.
Aurora_Bell
Aug 1, 2012, 05:54 PM
That should say 5 ft not 7... posting from my phone.
Wondergirl
Aug 1, 2012, 05:54 PM
I was at work, apparently lady jumped a 7ft fence and attacked the cat. I've only heard the story 2nd and 3rd hand...
So Lady was not in her yard when the attack occurred?
Aurora_Bell
Aug 1, 2012, 05:56 PM
Yes I have two acres but only 1/4 of it is fenced. My neighbor it's quite a distance from me. It's not like suburbs, I'm country.
Lucky098
Aug 1, 2012, 06:04 PM
I am somewhat relieved that Colorado has a law of "fence to keep out"... If someone's cat wonders onto my property and is killed, it's the owners fault.
You should look into your county rules and regulations and see if there is a way to fight this
Isn't it enough that you have to fork over $1100 for you to fix her cat?
Everyone is so hyped up with this pit bull thing that is spiraling out of control.
Other pet owners and lovers of pets need to realize that a government telling its people which pets they can own won't stop at pit bulls (or their mixes). Since animals are considered property still, this is just as ridiculous as the government saying you cannot own a specific type of car because its fast and can potentially do some damage to you or others.
Oh Bella, I'm so sad for you right now :( Its not fair.. any way you look at it, its just not fair. :(
Wondergirl
Aug 1, 2012, 06:06 PM
So what would this woman have done if a coyote or raccoon would have attacked her cat (on HER property)? I want to do something to help Lady.
Aurora_Bell
Aug 1, 2012, 06:14 PM
I'm not sure what can be done right now. All this support is amazing. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart. At this point it's all up in the air. I never thought it would be me in this situation.
Wondergirl
Aug 1, 2012, 06:18 PM
I'll write letters and make calls. Tell me details, if that time comes.
Alty
Aug 1, 2012, 06:18 PM
The attack occurred on Bella's property, but only part of her property is fenced. I don't live in the country, but hope to within the next 2 years. It's very costly to fence a few acres. My yard is tiny, super small. To fence my yard, 16 years ago, cost over $1000 dollars. That was just for the supplies, not to put up the fence. We did that. I don't even have 1/8 of an acre for my yard. Tiny!
This just makes me so mad. So upset. So... I don't even have the words! I'm pi$$ed off!
WG, I've had a few cat incidents, and before I go on, I want to tell you that I love all animals. I love cats. I'd have cats if hubby wasn't allergic. So would he. We love cats.
Indy, our lab cross that died just before Christmas, was the most docile dog I've ever met. The neighbor kids used to ride on his back, when I wasn't looking. He never so much as growled at them. My bunnies used to jump on his back, used him as a stepping stool to get on the couch. His response? He's lick them. Our bird used to peck at his fur. Once, Marty got a bit frightened, flew, landed on Indy's head. Indy didn't even blink. He took it all in stride.
Having said that, Indy had two run ins with cats. One was a kitten. Indy was tied up in our front yard. I was with him. We have an even smaller front yard than we do a back. The leash extended to the edge of our driveway, and the edge of our lawn. He was kept on our property. The neighbor across the street got a kitten. Cutest little thing. That kitten, at less than 8 weeks of age, would cross the busy street, come to our property, and sit on the tree just out of Indy's reach. Indy would whine, wag his tail, and the kitten would sit in the tree, taunting (for lack of a better word).
This went on for 2 weeks, every single day. I'd take the kitten back to it's owner, ask that they keep it inside, that I was worried that it was crossing the street and taunting my 70 pound dog. They laughed it off.
Well, after 2 weeks of this, Indy had enough. It was one taunt too many. The kitten came to our property, climbed the tree, and Indy broke his leash. The leash was made of mountain climbing rope. It was tested and approved to hold 300 pounds. He snapped it in half like it was thread. The kitten pounced out of the tree and ran, Indy at his heals. The got to the middle of the road, the kitten turned, and slapped (that's the only way to describe it) Indy in the face with both paws. Indy was so shocked that he turned around and came back home. No injury.
The second time Indy was on a new leash, stronger than the first. It was winter. He saw a cat at the neighbors house, by their garage, across from our culdesac. Indy once again broke the leash and took off. The cat sat there, by the garage, Indy charging towards him, both hubby and me running after Indy screaming "Stop, come, no!" The cat didn't move. Indy got to the cat, picked him up, and tossed him in a snow bank. Thankfully we were right behind him, grabbed him before he could hurt the cat, and that was the end of it. That was also the end of Indy being in the front yard.
Aurora_Bell
Aug 1, 2012, 06:24 PM
I refuse to let lady's rehoming go in vain. No dog should hands to be torn from it's family because of the way they look.
Alty
Aug 1, 2012, 06:24 PM
So what would this woman have done if a coyote or raccoon would have attacked her cat (on HER property)? I want to do something to help Lady.
R (hubby) said the same thing.
If a pet is attacked by a wild animal when you're being an irresponsible pet owner, it's an act of God. If a pet is attacked by another pet, on the other pets property, and your pet has no restrictions, even though you're at fault as a crappy pet owner, the animal defending it's property is at fault.
What needs to be done is this. Laws need to be changed. Pet owners need to be made responsible for their pets, regardless of that pet is. If you have a dog, and it attacks someone off leash while you're going for a walk, you need to be responsible. If you have a cat and you decide to let it wander the neighborhood, going onto other people's property, and it gets injured, you're responsible.
The thing that makes me the most upset about this, is that people are expecting animals to act like people! A cat doesn't know that it shouldn't go into the neighbors yard! If a cat is allowed to roam, that's what it will do. A dog doesn't know that it shouldn't chase the cat that comes into her yard, otherwise it's a death sentence!
Dogs are dogs, cats are cats, birds are birds, animals are animals! It's human beings that need to learn. Not the animals. It's a human change that needs to take place. We need to wake people up!
Sorry Bella. Don't mean to rant here. I'm just so mad about this. So very mad. Love you!
Wondergirl
Aug 1, 2012, 06:24 PM
Like I said before, cats don't belong outside, even in the country. Too many dangers. I've spent my life trapping and rehoming or finding homes for outdoor feral and stray cats. Too bad if someone owns that cat. (And I do know which neighbors stupidly let their cats go outdoors 'cause their cats wander over here to visit our cats sitting in the windows.) I don't think I've rescued an owned cat yet, but don't make me swear to that.
Alty
Aug 1, 2012, 06:26 PM
I refuse to let lady's rehoming go in vain. No dog should hands to be torn from it's family because of the way they look.
I'm with you. I think we all are.
So what can we do to change this?
It's in our hands. Human hands. Only human beings can change this. So how do we do it?
It's no longer of "we have time, people will wake up". It's now a matter of "We need to save Lady".
Cat1864
Aug 1, 2012, 06:26 PM
Bella, if this happened while you were at work, was Lady out of the fenced area when you got home? If she was in the fence, who put her back in or is this woman claiming that after attacking the cat Lady jumped back over the fence?
What proof does this woman have that Lady attacked her cat? Was there an eyewitness who is not a realtive or 'close' friend of the cat owner? Are there any bite marks on the cat?
This is starting to sound very fishy.
Wondergirl
Aug 1, 2012, 06:28 PM
Bella, if this happened while you were at work, was Lady out of the fenced area when you got home? If she was in the fence, who put her back in or is this woman claiming that after attacking the cat Lady jumped back over the fence?
What proof does this woman have that Lady attacked her cat? Was there an eyewitness who is not a realtive or 'close' friend of the cat owner? Are there any bite marks on the cat?
This is starting to sound very fishy.
My very thoughts. I also wonder if Lady is a scapegoat (and a source for easy money). That's why I was trying to find out what happened without saying what I was thinking.
Has this neighbor ever expressed dislike for Lady?
I would sit down and write out the entire episode with who, what, where, how, why, etc. Were there witnesses? Who says what? Which animal was where and when?
Aurora_Bell
Aug 1, 2012, 06:30 PM
I agree wg, a cats place is in the home. Alty 100% agree. Too much pressure on family pets to behave like humans. People forget animals don't think like humans.
Alty
Aug 1, 2012, 06:37 PM
Like I said before, cats don't belong outside, even in the country. Too many dangers. I've spent my life trapping and rehoming or finding homes for outdoor feral and stray cats. Too bad if someone owns that cat. (And I do know which neighbors stupidly let their cats go outdoors 'cause their cats wander over here to visit our cats sitting in the windows.) I don't think I've rescued an owned cat yet, but don't make me swear to that.
I completely agree. I'm in the burbs, but even here there are coyotes, and other wild animals. A cat that's allowed to roam and wander, is just easy prey.
We learned the hard way not to let our cats have free reign. I have to admit, we let them roam and wander for many years. My mom and dad felt that was a cats right. Some of our cats went to wander and never came back. Whiskers came back with an ear missing, and scratches. Ginger killed a neighbors cat, also allowed to roam free. :(
Well, it's a dogs right too. Dogs aren't born to be leashed, enclosed. Wild dogs roam, they hunt, they live in packs. Why aren't dogs allowed free rein?
Why are cats allowed to roam, unless their owners decide to be responsible, but dogs have to be tied down, or enclosed? But, when that irresponsible cat owners cat comes into the yard, the dog, a hunter, an animal that protects its turf, is the one that's killed when it attacks the animals invading its space? Cats are hunters too! Cats and dogs aren't really all that different. But cats have freedom, dogs don't. Should one invade the other, it's always the dog that dies for it.
Animals are animals! That's really the bottom line. Until all humans are responsible for any type of animal that's in their care, it's not fair to punish the animals. By this I mean the cat owner, not Bella and Lady. I know that Bella treats her dogs like dogs, and does everything right for them. They're walked, fed, loved, trained. They have space to run, and be dogs. This is all on the cat lady, and not at all on Bella and Lady.
Alty
Aug 1, 2012, 06:41 PM
Good questions Cat and WG (feeling a bit weird calling Cat, Cat, right now). ;)
Bella, does this cat lady have proof that it was Lady that attacked her cat? Or did she just say so?
If she has no proof, fight it.
Don't say a thing to her. Don't apologize, don't offer to pay vet bills. Demand proof that Lady attacked her cat.
If she can't provide the proof, then she has nothing.
Wondergirl
Aug 1, 2012, 06:47 PM
She needs photos or witnesses. The cat could have gotten injured in some other way and she is blaming Lady. Did Lady have blood on her muzzle? Like Cat said, was Lady out of her fenced-in area? Was the cat lying on the ground near Lady? How did someone get Lady to back off from chewing on the cat's leg or attacking the cat? (I thought that was often hard to do.)
Alty
Aug 1, 2012, 07:37 PM
She needs photos or witnesses. The cat could have gotten injured in some other way and she is blaming Lady. Did Lady have blood on her muzzle? Like Cat said, was Lady out of her fenced-in area? Was the cat lying on the ground near Lady? How did someone get Lady to back off from chewing on the cat's leg or attacking the cat? (I thought that was often hard to do.)
All good points.
We've established that Bella was at work when this supposedly happened. I say supposedly because it really hasn't been proven that Lady did this.
Bella, where was Lady when you came home from work?
When did this happen, and when did the cat lady approach you about this?
Was there any indication that Lady did this? Blood on her, she was outside the fenced in area of your yard, etc. etc.
Did the cat lady see this happen, and she pulled Lady off the cat, or is she assuming? If she's not assuming, then how did she get Lady, the supposedly vicious dog, off her cat?
None of this is adding up for the cat lady. Did Lady attack the cat? Could be. Lady is a dog, and dogs chase any animal, or human, that encroaches on their territory. Doesn't matter what breed the dog is. But was it Lady?
Bella lives in the country. She's told me about coyotes in her yard, a pack of them. Happens all the time. She lives in the wild. It's just as likely, even more so, that the neighbors cat was attacked by a coyote. So, unless she has proof that Lady was the one that did this, this is a bunch of bull on the cat lady's part.
Wondergirl
Aug 1, 2012, 07:47 PM
Coyotes think cats are a tasty treat. That's what Chicago area coyotes live on, stray cats and squirrels and mice. I used to feed lots of stray cats every evening. Now there are none. The coyote population has risen; the stray cat population is very low. Hmmmm. I wonder if a coyote got to the cat and Lady is being blamed.
mogrann
Aug 1, 2012, 08:43 PM
I just got home and have been talking to Alty when out. I have made myself very active in the BSL debate and helping dogs I am in the process of typing stuff up to help out. I will post it here as well. Lets not let another Wicca or Lennox happen to Bella
LadySam
Aug 1, 2012, 08:56 PM
This is beyond unfair, honestly something doesn't add up.
A roaming cat is apt to get injured plain and simple.
What can I do? Sign a petition, write a letter, e-mail someone?
Bella, I am sorry you, your little one and Lady are having to deal with this.
mogrann
Aug 1, 2012, 09:09 PM
Bella, I know it is a tough time for you. I really do get it but we need info from you to help out Lady. Please be as honest as you can. I have not worked first hand on campaigns but have been there to see what the experts said needs to be done. I find point forms easier for me so here goes.
1. We need a write up of the facts. Dates, times witnesses etc.
2. Also need copies of all documents related to this.
3. Do you have legal council?
4. Some people do chip ins to help with costs of legal council
5. Contact The Lexus Project. They have helped people get dogs off death row. They will only give you advice as they don't help in Canada but they have managed to save dogs. They are on Facebook
6. We need a Facebook page for Lady with people to contact to help. Email addresses phone numbers etc. PETITIONS DON'T WORK.
7. Do you have a behavior analysis of Lady?
8. We need to share this story on web pages against BSL I need your permission and to have the Facebook group up and running
9. Don't believe the lie about keeping it quiet that has hurt more dogs then helping.
10. Do not accept the dangerous dog level fight it. That causes so many problems.
I know I can't give you my email on here but Alty has it. Lets get this dog home to her family. Come on AMHD lets do it.
Any lawyers on here that can chime in please do lets do this now !
Aurora_Bell
Aug 2, 2012, 05:01 AM
Bella, if this happened while you were at work, was Lady out of the fenced area when you got home? If she was in the fence, who put her back in or is this woman claiming that after attacking the cat Lady jumped back over the fence?
What proof does this woman have that Lady attacked her cat? Was there an eyewitness who is not a realtive or 'close' friend of the cat owner? Are there any bite marks on the cat?
This is starting to sound very fishy.
Apparently the lady who was so terrified of my blood thirsty pit-bull came and put her back in the fence after it all happened. The cat owner rents an apartment in a house next to me, it was the land lords son who saw what happened. Confusing I know.
Aurora_Bell
Aug 2, 2012, 05:16 AM
Bella, I know it is a tough time for you. I really do get it but we need info from you to help out Lady. Please be as honest as you can. I have not worked first hand on campaigns but have been there to see what the experts said needs to be done. I find point forms easier for me so here goes.
1. We need a write up of the facts. Dates, times witnesses etc.
July 31st at approx 11:00 am. One witness, the nighbors landlords son, we can call him "D"./
2. Also need copies of all documents related to this.
So far nothing is in writing aside from the vet bill
3. Do you have legal council?
Spoke with legal aid briefly yesterday, said they would brush up on their animal by laws etc and get back to me today.
4. Some people do chip ins to help with costs of legal council
This has been mentioned (the part about getting assistance for costs, not sure about asking for money, but when the time comes....), as of now I qualify for legal aid, all though LA said this might be out of her hands, would get back to me today.
5. Contact The Lexus Project. They have helped people get dogs off of death row. They will only give you advice as they don't help in Canada but they have managed to save dogs. They are on facebook
I am familiar with Lexus, as of now Lady is a fugative and is in hiding. I don't care I will pay th fine as long as that means Lady stays safe. I have contacted the bully rescue, brought them up to date, things are still up in the air, and there are a lot of questins going unanswered.
6. We need a facebook page for Lady with people to contact to help. Email addresses phone numbers etc. PETITIONS DON'T WORK.
I agree.
7. Do you have a behavior analysis of Lady?
Lady has her level 3 obedience and her good neighbor certificate, in a sense, yes.
8. We need to share this story on web pages against BSL I need your permission and to have the facebook group up and running
I have started sharing with "The Truth About Pitbulls" I agree again, great idea.
9. Don't believe the lie about keeping it quiet that has hurt more dogs then helping.
No one could ever shut me up when it comes to my (or any) dog's life.
10. Do not accept the dangerous dog level fight it. That causes so many problems.
Here's the catch, Lady was aleady listed as a dangerous breed when she was slated to be euthanised in Ontario, I paid for her to come to NS, it doesn't matter if it was a squirrel she attacked, she is listed as a dangerous breed.
I know I can't give you my email on here but Alty has it. Lets get this dog home to her family. come on AMHD lets do it.
Any lawyers on here that can chime in please do lets do this now !
Thank you Morgrann, the support I am receiving is unbelievable. I am overwhelmed, and can not thank you ladies enough.
Aurora_Bell
Aug 2, 2012, 05:20 AM
If anyone would like to share this, please do.
JudyKayTee
Aug 2, 2012, 05:42 AM
If anyone would like to share this, please do.
Bella, anything you need, anything I can do. In my area there is great difficulty obtaining homeowners insurance when there's a GSD, Rott (and I have one of each), "Pit" in the home. That's step #1 to banning a breed.
At any rate - it truly is a shame you're so far away. I'm a damn good investigator (if I can use the "d" word and praise myself) and I guarantee someone with expertise could turn this somewhat around. You have a single mother with a child whose best friend is a dog; you have a witness who probably has some loyalty (and not to you); you left and your dog was in your yard; you came home and your dog was in your yard. So the blood thirsty dog killed the cat - and then someone led the dog back into the dog's yard? Problematical at best.
All of the other suggestions are good ones, including Vet statements and the like.
If you read my blog about Andi (gone from me 4 months this week) you know how much money I spent keeping her confined - this could have been her. I don't think she ever saw a cat face to face, but she did hate squirrels. I fenced an acre and a half. Ching, ching, ching.
I know you have to re-home Lady for the short term, but I'm not terribly sure about the long term. Have you tried any of the animal rights associations?
Is she part "Pit" (and I know it's a "one size fits all" category) or not? Cats in my area are free roaming and nothing can be done about it - but if my dog puts a toe on someone else's property...
What is the cat owner's argument - that Lady is dangerous to everything and everybody, just cats, just her, something else. I hear the "Well, it COULD have been me; well, it COULD have been worse" arguments all the time. "Could" is meaningless. "Did" is not meaningless.
Hmm - you need somebody to gather info now, particularly before anything "legal" starts, when the cat owner will still talk.
Aurora_Bell
Aug 2, 2012, 06:28 AM
Bella, anything you need, anything I can do.
Thank you, and you know I truly mean it from the bottom of my heart.
In my area there is great difficulty obtaining homeowners insurance when there's a GSD, Rott (and I have one of each), "Pit" in the home. That's step #1 to banning a breed.
I'm afraid to contact my home owners insurance....
At any rate - it truly is a shame you're so far away. I'm a damn good investigator (if I can use the "d" word and praise myself)
You can, because you are.
and I guarantee someone with expertise could turn this somewhat around. You have a single mother with a child whose best friend is a dog; you have a witness who probably has some loyalty (and not to you); you left and your dog was in your yard; you came home and your dog was in your yard.
Not to mention that my dad lives literally across the the street behind me, our yards are almost adjacent, he can see everything, and if he were to leave his house, he comes and puts Lady in my house.
So the blood thirsty dog killed the cat - and then someone led the dog back into the dog's yard? Problematical at best.
She was/is terrified of my dog, but admitted to my face she called my dog over, my dog came happily and friendly and she took her by the collar and put her in the fence.... Scared? Terrified? Where??
All of the other suggestions are good ones, including Vet statements and the like.
If you read my blog about Andi (gone from me 4 months this week) you know how much money I spent keeping her confined - this could have been her. I don't think she ever saw a cat face to face, but she did hate squirrels. I fenced an acre and a half. Ching, ching, ching.
Tell me about it, I paid heavily for the 1/4 acre fence....
I know you have to re-home Lady for the short term, but I'm not terribly sure about the long term. Have you tried any of the animal rights associations?
I am e-mailing several pit-bull organizations.
Is she part "Pit" (and I know it's a "one size fits all" category) or not? Cats in my area are free roaming and nothing can be done about it - but if my dog puts a toe on someone else's property ...
A pit bull type dog is a combination of dog breeds that includes the American pit bull terrier, American Staffordshire terrier, Staffordshire bull terrier, American bulldog1 (1- 1.Progressive pit bull legislation includes the American bulldog in its definition of a pit bull.) Lady is a boxer Am Staff mix http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pit-bull-faq.php/B]
What is the cat owner's argument - that Lady is dangerous to everything and everybody, just cats, just her, something else. I hear the "Well, it COULD have been me; well, it COULD have been worse" arguments all the time. "Could" is meaningless. "Did" is not meaningless.
[B]She fears for the safety of her kids, and I quote her "Once a dog gets the taste of blood, it won't stop at cats, I have two small kids, your dog COULD have attacked my kids and I fear she will now".
Hmm - you need somebody to gather info now, particularly before anything "legal" starts, when the cat owner will still talk.
How do I do this? Legally, and for it to stand up in court?
I never thought it was going to be me. I knew BSL, breed escrimination and the sorts affected EVERYONE, but I thought I took all the proper steps to ensure something like this would never happen. I don't want to see the cat hurt, but I don't want to loose my dog over something most dogs would do as well.
Cat1864
Aug 2, 2012, 07:02 AM
Bella, how old is 'D'? How much do you know about him?
Something I think both you and the cat owner need to think about is how reliable 'D' is. Would he be the type to cover his own mistake by blaming someone/thing else? Are you both being played?
What is D's story? That Lady without warning jumped the fence and pounced on the cat? No barking? No working herself up? No behavior that would have had your father coming over to check on her?
How did the cat owner find out that her cat was injured?
JudyKayTee
Aug 2, 2012, 07:02 AM
Any investigator with experience in dog bites, particularly “dangerous breed” dog bites, can turn this around to some extent. I can only speak for the US, but it can't be very different. I get assigned a case, usually by an Attorney. I then talk to the people who are/might bring charges, make the complaint. They either talk or they don't. I photograph the property or properties. I talk to ALL of the neighbors. I talk to the Vet. I don't talk to you, obviously, because either your Attorney already knows what you know and what you're going to say.
My report - and any transcribed statements - are admissible in Court. I testify fairly often. I don't take a side. I find and report facts. Sounds like “Joe Friday,” but it's true. No Attorney wants to take a case, get to Court and find out the client isn't truthful or the investigator slanted things.
Someone who questions the cat's owner can discredit the “taste of blood” statement in a heartbeat. There is absolutely nothing written/printed ANYWHERE by a reputable source that states “once a dog tastes blood... it will attack kids.” Borderline hysteria like this is going to hurt her, hurt her credibility a LOT. I LIVE for people who make statements like this! She made the statement - based on.. It boils down to sheer emotion and makes her look like she's over reacting.
How I question, the direction I take, depends on her general attitude and demeanor - do I mention it's a child's dog, the child cries herself to sleep at night, the dog owner is more than sorry, the dog owner would feel the same way if it were her cat, the dog owner is not happy with the dog and will take steps to ensure that this will never happen again. Sometimes I just come on tough. Depends on the situation.
I don't mention that if the cat owner had, in fact, safeguarded her cat by keeping it inside this would not have happened. I leave out coyotes and other dangers. It is important that I be sympathetic to the plight of the cat owner who now owns a three-legged cat and thinks it's all your fault.
I might go in the direction of “How did it happen that the dog didn't kill the cat? Who interrupted the event? Did someone have to pull the dog off the cat? Did the dog jump on the cat and then back off? Gee, my dogs catch rabbits all the time and shake them to death. Sounds like the dog chased the cat and injured it and then backed off. The dog didn't pick up the cat and shake it or anything, right? Poor cat. It must have been frightened to death. I can't imagine what it's like to see your cat with a mangled leg.”
I carry “The Lost Dogs,” the book about Michael Vicks, in my briefcase. Sometimes I pull it out with my notebook. I've never had one person NOT ask what it is. Opens up a conversation about Vicks, his dogs, how he tortured them, how he personally killed at least one (by beating it against the ground - his cohort helped the Police locate its body, so it's true, not rumor). By the way, I don't recommend the book. It's actually sickening. I know the book backward and forward - want to talk about bully dogs? I know something about them, how they're rehabbed, all of that.
I go to where your dog is. I have some background, some experience in rescue, have taken in abused and abandoned dogs, I see what I think of the dog. I address whether the dog frightens me.
I look for whether the dog has escaped (for lack of a better word) in this manner before and whether the dog owner should have been more careful, taken more steps to ensure that the dog was secure. For example, my dogs have a doggie door and free access when I am home. When I am NOT home they are inside. I never have to wonder/worry what they're doing. I do it as much to keep them from being bothered (kids and dogs can be a bad mix) as I do to protect the public from them. Did you have any reason to believe the cat incident could happen? Did the dog have (and here's the key phrase) “vicious propensities”?
You need someone to ask the right questions on your behalf, someone who is not directly related to you, someone with experience in interviewing people.
Needless to say, I do a lot of dog bite cases. I don't go through all this prep for one case a year. In the long run it's beneficial to the Attorney to hire me.
Sorry if I rambled.
Aurora_Bell
Aug 2, 2012, 07:22 AM
Thank you JKT, and this is very useful, even for myself when dealing with the woman. D is is 18, as far as I know he would have no reason to lie. But then again...
My biggest mistake was leaving her outside. I'll take pics tonight of what my yard looks like to give you an idea. My house is like 34c degrees, it's fuming hot in there, I thought it would be better for her to be outside, it's shaded, lots of water and a fan, yes I plugged in a fan outside pointing at the dog bed in the shade for cool off, not to mention E's pool which was filled at the time. When I read this I see how stupid I sound. Leave a dog outside? Unattended? What was I thinking? I would have torn a strip off someone else who posted that. The only thing is that my dad was there. As soon as he heard the commotion he was out there. Also, D said the cat was walking around minding it's own business and Lady from a standing point leaped over a 5ft fence. No growling, no barking, just leaped and pounced and mercifully let it go? I don't know. I have seen her catch squirrels, and like the rabbits she shakes them to death. She doesn't pounce on them and let them run away. Lady did have a scratch on her nose, and according to the vet bill it was only the leg that was broken, no puncture wounds etc...
JudyKayTee
Aug 2, 2012, 07:33 AM
. No growling, no barking, just leaped and pounced and mercifully let it go? I don't know. I have seen her catch squirrels, and like the rabbits she shakes them to death. She doesn't pounce on them and let them run away. Lady did have a scratch on her nose, and according to the vet bill it was only the leg that was broken, no puncture wounds etc...
Does anyone know 100% that the cat was not injured before your dog went over the fence?
Wondergirl
Aug 2, 2012, 07:35 AM
My first impression was that something chewed off the cat's leg or mangled it enough that it had to be amputated, but it was only BROKEN because the cat had been pounced on by a heavier animal? Why amputate a broken leg?
Wondergirl
Aug 2, 2012, 07:39 AM
Does anyone know 100% that the cat was not injured before your dog went over the fence?
Excellent point! Like I said earlier, cats can easily outrun dogs, climb a tree. Certainly there are trees around? Why didn't this cat -- or couldn't it?
I want to drive to Judy's, pick her up, and go to Bella's to do some PI work!
mogrann
Aug 2, 2012, 07:42 AM
Judy your input is what we need. You are experienced hands on at cases like this. I am sick of losing dogs based on a measuring tape or normal dog behaviour. We need to fix this so E and Bella can have their family member back home.
Aurora_Bell
Aug 2, 2012, 08:22 AM
Apparently the bone was jutting out of the leg.
Aurora_Bell
Aug 2, 2012, 08:23 AM
Does anyone know 100% that the cat was not injured before your dog went over the fence?
Not to my knowledge.
JudyKayTee
Aug 2, 2012, 08:50 AM
Apparently the bone was jutting out of the leg.
Doesn't mean your dog caused the injury. I'd be really curious about the Vet's opinion on how the injury happened. Bruises? Bites? I honestly think you've got a legal argument here.
I would tell you if I didn't think so.
PM me if you're more comfortable. Where exactly are you?
I'm mulling this over - it's summer. I could use a weekend trip. Just wondering how far, how much. I'd LOVE to put on my big white hat and spurs and dig into this. And, yes, I can work in Canada, particularly if I'm a friend and not taking a job away from a Canadian.
You and Lady MAY be getting railroaded. I'm not saying that closer examination of this won't be damning - but I'm not sure it will be damning.
Wondergirl
Aug 2, 2012, 08:55 AM
I wonder if the witness "D" had something to do with the cat's injury and is blaming Lady. Dogs bite and chew, not squish and smoosh. I'd love to get him into an interview room.
What do you know about him, Bella?
Aurora_Bell
Aug 2, 2012, 09:03 AM
Nothing, he seems like a good kid, he smashed up my car once by accident and his dad charged me to replace the rocker pannels... not sure how that worked, but it did. (I took the car to dad to fix rocker pannels, and D drove the car into the side of the garage, and I STILL had to pay $70!) I don't know what to think, I mean Lady did have a scratch on her nose, but what I don't get is it happened in MY yard, D said he was working on his 4 wheeler and he saw Lady jump over the fence, there is still another yard space between where my fence ends and my yard ends.
albear
Aug 2, 2012, 11:20 AM
Hi Bella, sorry to hear your going through all this, you, E and Lady are in my thoughts.
LadySam
Aug 2, 2012, 11:29 AM
I'm just spitballing here, sort of on the same angle (because a cat is hard to catch)
Are you familiar at all with this cat? Does it have any physical issues that would have made it difficult for him to get away from a dog, like being grossly obese or deaf perhaps?
I don't know that it would make an difference, just throwing it in.
Aurora_Bell
Aug 2, 2012, 12:05 PM
I really don't think the cat has any issues, like I've seen it pooping in my plants, and he seems fine.
Alty
Aug 2, 2012, 03:42 PM
The more you tell us the more upset I get.
I know I didn't see what happened, but all the accounts from people that supposedly did, sound like a load of bull.
So Lady was in your yard when you left, and in your yard when you came home, and the only person that claims that Lady jumped the fence is some 18 year old that says Lady didn't give a warning, nothing, but just jumped the fence and attacked? Bull! It doesn't make sense. If it doesn't make sense, it's not true.
Fight this Bella. I'm not a legal expert, but I really believe you have a case. In fact, if you fight it, I'd sue this Lady for your lawyer bills, and the trouble she's caused.
I'd love to see her explain to a judge how she put Lady, a dog she's terrified of, back in your yard after she was done attacking her cat. Bull! I'd never approach an animal I'm terrified of. If an animal was attacking one of my animals, I'd be kicking, clawing, biting, punching, anything to get that animal off mine. I would not be approaching it, grabbing it by the collar and putting it back in it's yard. Hell no!
So mad about this. So very mad.
Judy, if you decide to take a trip, pick me up on the way. I want a piece of this too. :)
Aurora_Bell
Aug 2, 2012, 04:26 PM
So good news, I have the woman I used for obedience classes on my side, she said she would write letters and if need be testify. Not only is she willing to testify on Lady's defense, she is willing to go on record as a behaviorist to talk about the natural instinct of terriers and all other dogs. One small step...
Cat1864
Aug 2, 2012, 04:45 PM
So good news, I have the woman I used for obedience classes on my side, she said she would write letters and if need be testify. Not only is she willing to testify on Lady's defense, she is willing to go on record as a behaviorist to talk about the natural instinct of terriers and all other dogs. One small step....
Yay
Wow, I'm late to this thread. I'm aghast at this situation to say the least. No it doesn't add up at all.
LadySam
Aug 2, 2012, 05:40 PM
I must have read that wrong, the owner of the cat cat put lady back in the fence?
Well that doesn't say much for her blood lust idea, now does it?
The story just doesn't add up. It makes no sense.
There is something being left out or something completely unknown.
Good, I'm glad you have the obedience trainer on your side.
Lady has a character witness.
JudyKayTee
Aug 2, 2012, 05:48 PM
I must have read that wrong, the owner of the cat cat put lady back in the fence?
Well that doesn't say much for her blood lust idea, now does it?
The story just doesn't add up. It makes no sense.
There is something being left out or something completely unknown.
Good, I'm glad you have the obedience trainer on your side.
Lady has a character witness.
From the standpoint of an investigator it is, at best, a confusing explanation from the injury to the cat to Lady being returned to the yard.
I'm still pondering the options.
Wondergirl
Aug 2, 2012, 05:50 PM
Judy, write up a list of questions that need answering and scenarios that need investigating and people who should be interviewed.
JudyKayTee
Aug 2, 2012, 06:11 PM
Judy, write up a list of questions that need answering and scenarios that need investigating and people who should be interviewed.
No problem - if ONLY Bella weren't so far away...
Believe me, I can hit the ground running with no prep and my instincts take over from there. I go where the witnesses lead me.
But, yes, I have a Doctor's appointment tomorrow so I'll sit there, skip the sports magazines and work on a list.
LadySam
Aug 2, 2012, 06:16 PM
From the standpoint of an investigator it is, at best, a confusing explanation from the injury to the cat to Lady being returned to the yard.
I'm still pondering the options.
Exactly, from the standpoint of someone who sees upwards of 15-20 dogs and cats per day (and that is just me and my Vet, not to say anything of the others) for over 12 years.
I can count on my fingers and toes the number of cats we've had in attacked by dogs.
They are few and far between.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm sure there are many we don't see.
But cats are pretty formidable opponents, and they are fast.
And the first thing my dogs do when they see another animal is bark.
But yet Lady said nothing?
It just seems that someone is being really dodgy.
Wondergirl
Aug 2, 2012, 06:17 PM
Could you take a week's vacation and fly there?
JudyKayTee
Aug 2, 2012, 06:18 PM
Could you take a week's vacation and fly there?
Honestly - I need two days. I already looked into air fare. It's too far to drive - 18 hours, give or take.
Wondergirl
Aug 2, 2012, 06:20 PM
Honestly - I need two days. I already looked into air fare. It's too far to drive - 18 hours, give or take.
Yeah, I checked that too. Could you fly (in a plane)?
JudyKayTee
Aug 2, 2012, 06:38 PM
Yeah, I checked that too. Could you fly (in a plane)?
Sure, one connection if Bella is near where I think she is.
Or I could stand on my roof and flap my arms real fast -
Wondergirl
Aug 2, 2012, 06:44 PM
Or I could stand on my roof and flap my arms real fast -
I was thinking you could dust off your broom and use that.
JudyKayTee
Aug 2, 2012, 06:48 PM
I was thinking you could dust off your broom and use that.
No, I pretty much burned it out flying around here all day -
Wondergirl
Aug 2, 2012, 06:52 PM
Oh, I thought my neighbor's barn was burning, but it was the straw on your broom
Does this Lady effort need donations?
LadySam
Aug 2, 2012, 06:56 PM
Oh, I thought my neighbor's barn was burning, but it was the straw on your broom
Does this Lady effort need donations?
Ummm! Judy, I just tried to send you a PM about this very thing, It wouldn't go because it's full.
Aurora_Bell
Aug 2, 2012, 07:19 PM
I must have read that wrong, the owner of the cat cat put lady back in the fence?
Well that doesn't say much for her blood lust idea, now does it?
The story just doesn't add up. It makes no sense.
There is something being left out or something completely unknown.
Good, I'm glad you have the obedience trainer on your side.
Lady has a character witness.
Yes, the very same dog that she considered a blood thirsty baby killer, she called by NAME and took by the collar and led her back into the fenced yard.
Aurora_Bell
Aug 2, 2012, 07:21 PM
From the standpoint of an investigator it is, at best, a confusing explanation from the injury to the cat to Lady being returned to the yard.
I'm still pondering the options.
Right... She's terrified of my baby killer, but trusts this UNKNOWN dog enough to take by the collar and lead it into the yard?
Aurora_Bell
Aug 2, 2012, 07:22 PM
Judy, did yo get my PM?
Aurora_Bell
Aug 2, 2012, 07:24 PM
Exactly, from the standpoint of someone who sees upwards of 15-20 dogs and cats per day (and that is just me and my Vet, not to say anything of the others) for over 12 years.
I can count on my fingers and toes the number of cats we've had in attacked by dogs.
They are few and far between.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm sure there are many we don't see.
But cats are pretty formidable opponents, and they are fast.
And the first thing my dogs do when they see another animal is bark.
But yet Lady said nothing?
It just seems that someone is being really dodgy.
Willing to write up a personal letter explaining what a cat looks like AFTER it's been mauled... from a professional stand point?
Aurora_Bell
Aug 2, 2012, 07:27 PM
Sure, one connection if Bella is near where I think she is.
Or I could stand on my roof and flap my arms real fast -
Halifax, could pick you up with bells on.
mogrann
Aug 2, 2012, 07:29 PM
I am thinking cat got injured. They decided to get someone else to pay vet bills as they could not afford it. Lady is the scape goat so to speak.
Alty
Aug 2, 2012, 07:29 PM
At this point I just have to say this.
I love you guys! You all are the best! The very best! Just... no words. I can't describe the emotions I'm feeling right now. Just love, respect, and... well, you're the best! That's all I can say.
Judy, you never cease to amaze me. Special shout out to you. We've had our past scuffles, we don't always agree, but really, you're amazing. So proud to know you and call you friend. Wish I didn't have to do it in writing, words can't convey how I feel.
Alty
Aug 2, 2012, 07:30 PM
I am thinking cat got injured. they decided to get someone else to pay vet bills as they could not afford it. Lady is the scape goat so to speak.
I thought that too. I still think that. That's the only thing that makes sense.
LadySam
Aug 2, 2012, 07:31 PM
Willing to write up a personal letter explaining what a cat looks like AFTER it's been mauled... from a professional stand point?
Yep, 1 particular one I have in mind, I would need to go to work and retrieve some treatment information, when do you need it?
mogrann
Aug 2, 2012, 07:32 PM
We have to save Lady! Nothing else will do. Too many have been taken lately. What a great bunch of people on this thread. ALL OF YOU ARE HEROES in my book. Owen passes around doggy kisses as well :)
Aurora_Bell
Aug 2, 2012, 07:32 PM
At this point I just have to say this.
I love you guys! You all are the best! The very best! Just.....no words. I can't describe the emotions I'm feeling right now. Just love, respect, and....well, you're the best! That's all I can say.
Judy, you never cease to amaze me. Special shout out to you. We've had our past scuffles, we don't always agree, but really, you're amazing. So proud to know you and call you friend. Wish I didn't have to do it in writing, words can't convey how I feel.
I agree, to her and Mogrann, I could say thank you one million times and it wouldn't come close to conveying the gratitude I feel. What can I say? "Thank you" and "love" seem too mundane for what I feel right now.
Alty
Aug 2, 2012, 07:39 PM
I agree, to her and Mogrann, I could say thank you one million times and it wouldn't come close to conveying the gratitude I feel. What can I say? "Thank you" and "love" seem too mundane for what I feel right now.
There really aren't words. No words can convey the feeling.
Everyone on this thread has been so supportive, helpful. I've always considered the friends on AMHD my family. The test for true friends, and family, is sticking around when the going gets tough.
I've had both friends and family that left when the going got tough. Instead of support, or even just listening, or being there, they ran. True family, true friends, they stick around.
Everyone on this thread, they're not only true friends, they're family.
WG, don't correct the punctuation, I wrote quickly and I didn't think, I just wrote from the heart. Surely punctuation doesn't matter at times like this. :)
Love you all. Those words seem so unimportant. I wish I could show you how I feel in person. These written words, they seem so... unimportant. I hope you all know how important they really are.
Aurora_Bell
Aug 2, 2012, 07:42 PM
Lady Sam, as soon as you can?
Wondergirl
Aug 2, 2012, 07:49 PM
Lady Sam, as soon as you can?
But the leg wasn't chewed up -- it was smashed like something heavy had fallen on the cat or the cat had fallen/landed wrong and had broken its leg. The bone was sticking out, Bella said. Do I remember this right? The vet interview would be critical to get and find out what the leg looked like and why he had to amputate.
And a dog would bite and hold on, not fall on top of. Where was the cat when Lady went over the fence?
LadySam
Aug 2, 2012, 08:46 PM
Not only would a dog bite and hold on they would shake typically.
I'm wondering if there was any other damage, lacerations, punctures?
Cats have been known to get caught in some precarious predicaments, entangled in something like a fence, fan belts, and they don't always land on all fours when they fall.
Did the witness actually see Lady attack the cat or just go over the fence?
JudyKayTee
Aug 3, 2012, 04:14 AM
I am thinking cat got injured. they decided to get someone else to pay vet bills as they could not afford it. Lady is the scape goat so to speak.
And from my angle on this the owner may not KNOW what happened. Cat limping around, no one notices, dog comes over the fence, witness or owner or someone races over - cat has broken/shattered leg! This would be approached as "what if, do you think there's a possibility ..."
That's why I asked about the injuries to the leg, how the dog and cat got separated after the incident. An attack is an attack. Play, chasing, grabbing are totally different things. As you know I have dogs, big dogs. I know when they attack something (including toys) and when one of them gets hurt by mistake.
One of the very important aspects in something like this is to have your suspicions but not make assumptions - do you know what I mean?
EDIT: I came back because I was afraid this sounded harsh. I just mean not to jump to conclusions. Look at this with the eyes of a stranger. If you didn't know either party (including Lady, no wait, that's three parties) what would you think, what would you want to know?
A question is going to be whether Lady has jumped the fence before and if she did, what was done to confine her after that "jump." It's not one of the top 10, but it's a question I would ask.
JudyKayTee
Aug 3, 2012, 04:15 AM
Judy, did yo get my PM?
Just did - for whatever reason my PM's are coming to me by way of Mars.
JudyKayTee
Aug 3, 2012, 04:17 AM
Willing to write up a personal letter explaining what a cat looks like AFTER it's been mauled... from a professional stand point?
From a "professional angle" not a good idea - too generalized. NOW - a letter from someone familiar with the breed who owns the breed, trains, cares for, whatever - THAT'S helpful.
The problem is that no one is saying "mauling" and you don't want to go there. It's a broken leg, no more and no less.
Now - a letter, brief and to the point, stating your credentials and that it would be impossible for the dog to "attack" the cat and break its leg without breaking the skin - that would be helpful!
JudyKayTee
Aug 3, 2012, 04:19 AM
At this point I just have to say this.
I love you guys! You all are the best! The very best! Just.....no words. I can't describe the emotions I'm feeling right now. Just love, respect, and....well, you're the best! That's all I can say.
Judy, you never cease to amaze me. Special shout out to you. We've had our past scuffles, we don't always agree, but really, you're amazing. So proud to know you and call you friend. Wish I didn't have to do it in writing, words can't convey how I feel.
Thanks, Alty - but anyone on here would do the same for me.
And you and I clash because we really are so alike. Aside from the Canadian accent, of course. <smirk.
Aurora_Bell
Aug 3, 2012, 05:13 AM
According to the vet report there are no other imjuries aside from a broken leg. No puncture wounds etc... Good question, how DID the cat get away?
Good point JKT, don't put words into their mouths, the term mauled has never come up.
I am putting myself in two sets of shoes so to speak. Cat lady's shoes and a bystander's shoes. In cat Lady's shoes I am upset that my cat is hurt, I'm freaking out. She apparently didn't see the attack, but someone is telling her what he saw, my dog jumping a fence and pouncing on the cat...
As an outsider looking in, I'm just plain confused.
Aurora_Bell
Aug 3, 2012, 05:15 AM
Here is what My legal Aid sent to me from her blackberry: I looked at our "dog law" and the most recent one I could find was from 2006 . Whenever it was last updated, it's a ing mess of an ordinance. Convenient how they don't mention cats... There is also no general animal control ordinance it only addressed dogs. There is a "mitigating factor" line in the ordinance that says "a dog shall not be considered vicious if it attacks a "trespasser" "... however "trespasser" is not defined. So it could very well be another animal. I think that's a very important thing that we could conceivably argue, because in the very next sentence under "mitigating" circumstances, where it addresses the dog being teased or abused by the *person* attacked.
Did you determine that your dog was confined in some way to your property when the attack occurred? In a fenced yard or tethered? And was he registered with the city? Registration shouldn't do any kind of harm other than to get you a fine for failing to abide by that part of the law. The nasty part of this by-law is that animal control can kill a vicious dog on site. I know they tell folks that they'll use their head and not kill a dog unless they catch it being vicious (ie, in the heat of an attack), but that is certainly NOT what this law allows for. There are no provisions for punishment for removing the dog to another location to keep it away from authorities -- unless that's in another ordinance/by-law that I can't find. I wouldn't bring her home right now, though.
You need to find out precisely what the animal control officers say that you've done. Make them give it to you in writing, and go from there. Don't accept the lady's bill for her cat... that can be construed as you accepting responsibility for paying it. Stay in touch over the weekend, I will be doing a lot of work from home.
JudyKayTee
Aug 3, 2012, 07:09 AM
According to the vet report there are no other imjuries aside from a broken leg. No puncture wounds etc... Good question, how DID the cat get away?
Good point JKT, don't put words into their mouths, the term mauled has never come up.
I am putting myself in two sets of shoes so to speak. Cat lady's shoes and a bystander's shoes. In cat Lady's shoes I am upset that my cat is hurt, I'm freaking out. She apparently didn't see the attack, but someone is telling her what he saw, my dog jumping a fence and pouncing on the cat...
As an outsider looking in, I'm just plain confused.
And you should be confused. Everyone should be confused. It's when people THINK they know that there are issues.
Confusion is not a bad thing.
JudyKayTee
Aug 3, 2012, 07:11 AM
Here is what My legal Aid sent to me from her blackberry: I looked at our "dog law" and the most recent one i could find was from 2006 . whenever it was last updated, it's a ing mess of an ordinance. convenient how they don't mention cats ... There is also no general animal control ordinance it only addressed dogs. there is a "mitigating factor" line in the ordinance that says "a dog shall not be considered vicious if it attacks a "trespasser" " ... however "trespasser" is not defined. so it could very well be another animal. i think that's a very important thing that we could conceivably argue, because in the very next sentence under "mitigating" circumstances, where it addresses the dog being teased or abused by the *person* attacked.
did you determine that your dog was confined in some way to your property when the attack occurred? in a fenced yard or tethered? and was he registered with the city? registration shouldn't do any kind of harm other than to get you a fine for failing to abide by that part of the law. the nasty part of this by-law is that animal control can kill a vicious dog on site. I know they tell folks that they'll use their head and not kill a dog unless they catch it being vicious (ie, in the heat of an attack), but that is certainly NOT what this law allows for. there are no provisions for punishment for removing the dog to another location to keep it away from authorities -- unless that's in another ordinance/by-law that i can't find. i wouldn't bring her home right now, tho.
you need to find out precisely what the animal control officers say that you've done. make them give it to you in writing, and go from there. don't accept the lady's bill for her cat ... that can be construed as you accepting responsibility for paying it. stay in touch over the weekend, I will be doing a lot of work from home.
All of this is excellent - being "silent" about cats is good, far better than addressing them.
Cats MAY not be mentioned because they are the same as wild animals - rabbits, deer, squirrels. They MAY not be considered to be domestic animals.
Curious to see what happens next -
Aurora_Bell
Aug 3, 2012, 07:47 AM
I agree, sounds hopeful. She expressed her disgust in the case earlier in the message, I think I like her.
LadySam
Aug 3, 2012, 08:12 AM
So agreed, that letter will do nothing to help.
So IF cats are categorized as non-domestic, this would be viewed in a somewhat different light? I've only ever had to deal with lawyers and courts as far as child support and custody go, I do read the law boards here quite often, I find them interesting.
Is there a burden of proof element here, if so who does it lie with?
I'm really just curious. My dogs are fenced when outdoors, my neighbors dogs are not.
I could actually have a similar situation here, I hope not, but it is not impossible.
Your legal aid representative sounds awesome.
Wondergirl
Aug 3, 2012, 08:16 AM
Or maybe outdoor cats (i.e. cats that are allowed to roam outdoors, even if they have an owner) are considered non-domestic? There's no cat licensing in your area, Bella?
JudyKayTee
Aug 3, 2012, 10:02 AM
Or maybe outdoor cats (i.e., cats that are allowed to roam outdoors, even if they have an owner) are considered non-domestic? There's no cat licensing in your area, Bella?
There is no licensing here, in NY - they are considered to be semi-domestic animals (or feral. As you know, lots of feral cats in NY).
Wish they would have licensing requirements but they don't. My dogs need rabies shots. Meanwhile cats are roaming around, hanging out with rabid raccoons...
JudyKayTee
Aug 3, 2012, 10:15 AM
So agreed, that letter will do nothing to help.
So IF cats are categorized as non-domestic, this would be viewed in a somewhat different light? I've only ever had to deal with lawyers and courts as far as child support and custody go, I do read the law boards here quite often, I find them interesting.
Is there a burden of proof element here, if so who does it lie with?
I'm really just curious. My dogs are fenced when outdoors, my neighbors dogs are not.
I could actually have a similar situation here, I hope not, but it is not impossible.
Your legal aid representative sounds awesome.
Yes, if Lady had injured another dog, a domestic animal, it COULD be construed as dangerous behavior. A cat, non-domesticated, is the same as a squirrel, rabbit, whatever (I've run out of the names of wild animals). The dog is not carted off if it injures a cat. In my area, interestingly enough, any animal that takes down a deer is subject to seizure and euthanasia.
I once got into a standoff with Animal Control at a Summer house with my GSD, my parents' GSD, my sisters' GSD, the neighbors' GSD - and a deer leg in the roadway. I knew where "our" dogs were. My neighbors did not. Apparently all GSDs looked alike to Animal Control (beige, black, large, small), and he was NOT taking ANY of our dogs anywhere. He eventually gave up but gave me the evil eye every time he saw me. Animal Control Officers in my area don't necessarily have an education in anything pertaining to animals - including humane treatment of animals. With luck this is Bella's situation. "I have a gun and a badge and so I'm going to intimidate you."
I don't intimidate, and I've stood toe to toe with some, particularly in dog bite situations.
The injured party always has to prove the cause of the injury - it's not innocent until proven guilty, but there must be sufficient proof. I'm not sure that's the case here, but I wouldn't know until I talked to people. What people think or think they saw or were told is totally immaterial. For example, Bella is a witness to the usual behavior and temperament of her dog - she is not a witness to this incident. (Did I say accident earlier? It's not. It's an incident.)
If you would hear a commotion and your (fenced) dogs were in a fight in your (fenced) yard with the neighbor's dogs you have met your burden of proof - you're fenced and somehow they got in. NOW - if there's a gaping hole in your fence and you knew it particularly if you caused it, different story.
I'm chomping on the bit to get into this. I really am! Anyone own an airplane?
Alty
Aug 3, 2012, 11:29 AM
Question. Does the fact that Lady was in the fenced in area of the yard when Bella came home make a difference?
She was in the fenced in area when Bella left, and in the fenced in area when Bella came home. We only have the word of the cat lady that she put Lady back into Bella's fenced in area.
Judy, I have a toy airplane, and a toy helicopter with a remote. It actually flies. It's so cool! Somehow I don't think that will help though. ;)
JudyKayTee
Aug 3, 2012, 11:37 AM
Question. Does the fact that Lady was in the fenced in area of the yard when Bella came home make a difference?
She was in the fenced in area when Bella left, and in the fenced in area when Bella came home. We only have the word of the cat lady that she put Lady back into Bella's fenced in area.
Judy, I have a toy airplane, and a toy helicopter with a remote. It actually flies. It's so cool! Somehow I don't think that will help though. ;)
Alty, you've got it - all Bella knows is what the neighbor (or neighbors) have said.
Bella wasn't covered in blood, agitated, anything else - I would gather.
AND - again, it depends on the direction a statement would take in person - if your animal, any animal, broke my animal's leg and jumped a fence in order to do so I would not be putting your animal in your yard. I'd be really too busy dialing the Police and Animal Control to do so.
Of course, if the cat lady hadn't put Lady back, well, that could be a bigger problem because could be (minimally) incarcerated.
I said in the beginning - how do "we" know how the cat's leg got broken?
Alty
Aug 3, 2012, 11:47 AM
Completely agree.
From talking to Bella, the cat lady stated that she called Lady by name, Lady came running to her, tail wagging, cat lady grabbed her collar, and put Lady back in the fenced in area.
To me that's the biggest bull I've ever heard. If the cat lady is telling the truth she didn't see the attack. But, she supposedly knew that Lady was the one that injured her cat. If I were in her shoes, you couldn't have paid me to approach the dog (one that she claimed to be terrified of) call it by name, and then put it back in it's fenced in area. I would have left, called the pound, and had them pick up the dog.
It just doesn't make sense. Also, no puncture wounds on the cat, none at all. This just isn't adding up as an attack. In fact, I doubt that Lady even left her fenced in area. I think Lady is just a convenient scape goat.
Wondergirl
Aug 3, 2012, 12:00 PM
I think Lady is just a convenient scape goat.
And a way to get the cat's medical bills paid.
Do we know if the cat owner had any previous dealings, positive or negative, with Lady? Or has made comments about various dog breeds (hearsay evidence, but maybe useful).
JudyKayTee
Aug 3, 2012, 12:05 PM
And a way to get the cat's medical bills paid.
Do we know if the cat owner had any previous dealings, positive or negative, with Lady? or has made comments about various dog breeds (hearsay evidence, but maybe useful).
And that's what an investigator proves (or doesn't prove) - and keep in mind, the cat lady MIGHT think she saw what she didn't see.
I find someone dead in my backyard, I'm standing over the body, the Police arrive -
Put cat in the place of someone; put injured cat in the place of body.
Wondergirl
Aug 3, 2012, 12:06 PM
No wonder I read Grisham and other legal thrillers. Appeals to my Teutonic Scorpio-ness.
LadySam
Aug 3, 2012, 12:14 PM
AND why was her concern to get Lady back in the fence before tending to her cat, unless someone else was carting the cat off to the vet at the same time.
My first thought would have been to get my cat to the vet while someone called animal control.
But who knows what she may have been thinking at the time.
It still doesn't add up.
And puzzling too that there are no lacerations or punctures, dogs have teeth.
The ordinance that I found may be dated but section 2 is interesting.
I've been doing a lot of reading today.
Dog Owners' Liability Act, R.S.O. 1990, c. D.16 (http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90d16_e.htm#BK3)
I don't have an airplane either, but I'll chip in some gas money for anyone that does.
JudyKayTee
Aug 4, 2012, 05:48 AM
No wonder I read Grisham and other legal thrillers. Appeals to my Teutonic Scorpio-ness.
Grisham gives me a rash - I just can't get into anything he writes (probably including his grocery list).
Anyway - Bella, I thought you wouldn't appreciate the 3AM phone call but I was thinking about this in the middle of the night.
If you are agreeable I could interview the cat lady by phone - I do it all the time. Often I leave a card and the person calls me back. Sometimes I have a "bad" address and there is no other way. A lot of times one party or the other is out of State. (I'll drive 6 miles one way but no more than that.) All sorts of reasons.
We'd need to be very clear, though. I would send you my professional report as an investigator, not as a friend. I find out what happened, how it happened - if it's not good for you, well, it's your report and you can line a bird cage with it, but I still have to send it. When I testify (which I do somewhat often) I have to be able to say that I've NEVER changed or slanted an investigation.
What I'm saying is that what I find out is what I find out - good, bad, indifferent. Honestly, I think at this point nothing could hurt you. She says it was Lady, she wants you to pay the bill, unless Lady jumps the fence on a weekly basis and strangles cats I don't see that it can get worse for you.
On the other hand - I know how to question in a manner which keeps your feet out of the fire (so to speak). I know not to ask a question if I'm not "pretty sure" what the answer will be.
And the cat lady may not talk to me.
Also the witness and anyone else you would like interviewed.
Think about it - ? It's what I do for some pretty big, all respectable law firms. If you DO decide to turn my report over to your homeowners company my report IS admissible. Of course, as I said above, if it's not in your favor, line the bird cage with it.
We've had a checkered past, you and I, but I really would like to help you and Lady get out of this - think about it.
If your law allows it, I could tape record the conversations (you'd have to check with your local Police Department. I don't believe the Internet) but that's no big deal. I take conversations all the time without recording them.
How, you say? I worked as a shorthand reporter in the Court system for a number of years - for the Feds.
Wondergirl
Aug 4, 2012, 08:17 AM
The vet should be interviewed too.
(A Time To Kill was Grisham's first and best. Recent ones are forgettable.)
JudyKayTee
Aug 4, 2012, 09:04 AM
The vet should be interviewed too.
(A Time To Kill was Grisham's first and best. Recent ones are forgettable.)
Absolutely - but his notes are worth more than an interview. Would he talk to me, an unrelated party? Probably not - remember, he's the cat lady's Vet.
Wondergirl
Aug 4, 2012, 09:09 AM
Probably one important detail would be to find out the condition/appearance of the cat's leg before amputation.
JudyKayTee
Aug 4, 2012, 10:05 AM
Probably one important detail would be to find out the condition/appearance of the cat's leg before amputation.
Absolutely - does the Vet have an OPINION about what caused the injury? Falling off a roof leaves different "damage" than having a dog play "make a wish" with your leg.
Where's Bella? Working, I guess (which is, in theory, what I'm doing).
Aurora_Bell
Aug 4, 2012, 10:12 PM
I'm checking in from my phone. I've been staying at the friends house with lady this weekend, e has been very upset by the whole thing, thought it might be nice to get her away and visit our lady. Judy can I Call you on Tuesday?
Alty
Aug 4, 2012, 10:34 PM
Just want to add something, but I would still check before you go ahead. About taping the conversation. I have many telemarketers calling here, and they always tape the conversation. By law they have to tell you that they're taping, but, if you're told, it's legal, as far as I know. But again, I'm not 100% sure. Also, telemarketing and legal business are two different animals, so it may not apply to this sort of thing.
Aurora_Bell
Aug 6, 2012, 09:10 AM
I got home to barrage of messages from the neighbor and animal control. My legal aid spoke with the cat lady and animal control and they said if I agree to pay $500 they wouldn't pursue it any further. My LA did her homework, she showed how I'm in no way responsible, that according to the by-laws there is no way I can be legally responsible, in my county there is no BSL in effect/affect,there is NO law about removing a dog etc... and then she told the ac officer if she so much as looks in my general direction she would have her job for basically lying and trying to bully me, of course she said it in much more legal terms, but that was the jist. The only thing that kind of back fired was I did agree to pay vet bills when the "attack" first happened, I was in shock, and I felt bad for her. In the end I only had to pay $250 out of the $1,100 bill and Lady gets to come home safe and sound. It's a good day.
Wondergirl
Aug 6, 2012, 09:14 AM
I'm so glad this had a happy ending! And I hope that three-legged cat is kept indoors now. I will never believe Lady had anything to do with the cat's broken leg. It makes no sense (and I know cats).
mogrann
Aug 6, 2012, 09:17 AM
I have all ready told her on Facebook but I am so happy this had a happy ending. Both Alty and Bella know of all the stories I have shared and fought for that ended with the dog being murdered. My heart has been heavy and felt like giving up.
Thank you Bella for allowing us to help with advice for you and be a part of this happy ending. Lady I am happy you are safe and you are now a cog in the wheel to end this threat to bully breeds.
Woot woot woot woot. Happy dance time for Bella and her family!
JudyKayTee
Aug 6, 2012, 09:22 AM
GREAT news, particularly on Monday morning.
Group hug, group hug. (People and animals)
Cat1864
Aug 6, 2012, 09:32 AM
Bella, I am so happy for you and your family. :)
LadySam
Aug 6, 2012, 09:36 AM
Woo-Hoo, Oh, Happy Day.
Scared of the happy dance, I'm clumsy.
But this is great news.
Aurora_Bell
Aug 6, 2012, 10:54 AM
I'm happy too. My la had a few letters from the obedience trainer as well I'm sure that helped as well. I'm thinking about taking the written threats from mr. cat lady to the police, just in case something does happen to lady, but I'm thinking I should quit while I'm a head.
Aurora_Bell
Aug 6, 2012, 10:55 AM
Don't worry my la has copies of all the messages.
JudyKayTee
Aug 6, 2012, 11:18 AM
Well, and the even BETTER news is that if I ever get an assignment in NS that involves a dog that jumped a fence and may or may not have broken a cat's leg, which may or may not have been witnessed, the cat which may or may not have dog "marks" on its body - I have my questions all prepared!
I'm smiling - what good news for a Monday.
Alty
Aug 6, 2012, 12:23 PM
Great news! So happy. This is very good news.
I'm here for the group hug. Where did everyone go? I showered! I don't smell! Really! Come back!
Wondergirl
Aug 6, 2012, 01:20 PM
We're all at Otto's Bar & Grill celebrating. Come on over, Alty!
Alty
Aug 6, 2012, 02:00 PM
We're all at Otto's Bar & Grill celebrating. Come on over, Alty!
Ooooh! Order me a pint, and nachos with extra cheese. I'll be right over. :)
Wondergirl
Aug 6, 2012, 02:14 PM
Ben ate all the nachos. How about some stale pretzels I found in my purse?
Alty
Aug 6, 2012, 02:20 PM
Ben ate all the nachos. How about some stale pretzels I found in my purse?
Ben ate the nachos? First no toaster, now no nachos!
Not fair! I don't like pretzels.
I say we go somewhere else, and leave Ben behind with the stale pretzels. :)
Wondergirl
Aug 6, 2012, 02:22 PM
*leaving stale broken pretzel sticks on the bar for Ben and sneaking out*
Alty
Aug 6, 2012, 02:40 PM
*leaving stale broken pretzel sticks on the bar for Ben and sneaking out*
Ben! Look! Pretzels! Go get them!
Run everyone! I want nachos! Meet you at the Canuck bar and grill up the street. When we're done eating the nachos we'll call Ben and tell him where we are, but not before then.
Now run!
albear
Aug 7, 2012, 04:42 AM
Great news Bella, really pleased for you :D
tickle
Aug 7, 2012, 06:57 AM
I have never seen a three legged cat.
Anyway, so glad Bella and lady, you have the ultimate closure. Happy days are here again for you two !
Aurora_Bell
Aug 7, 2012, 12:34 PM
Thank you all for the overwhelming support, it's amazing to know that people still care. It was very scary thinking I might loose my fur baby, I was so stressed out for last two weeks. I couldn't have asked for a better ending. Thank you all.
I'll take celebratory poutine :)
Alty
Aug 7, 2012, 12:45 PM
Damn, now I'm craving poutine. :(
LadySam
Aug 7, 2012, 12:59 PM
Damn, now I'm craving poutine. :(
What's poutine?
Alty
Aug 7, 2012, 01:01 PM
What's poutine?
OMG! Only the best thing ever!
It's french fries, with cheese curds, covered in gravy. So very yummy! So very bad for you. But totally worth every single bite. :)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Poutine.JPG/250px-Poutine.JPG
mogrann
Aug 7, 2012, 01:26 PM
There are people who have not had poutine.. in Calgary there is a restaurant that's menu is based off poutine. OMG so yummy but not healthy for me :(
tickle
Aug 7, 2012, 01:35 PM
Poutine is a heart attack waiting to happen. I will settle for French fries and gravy !
mogrann
Aug 7, 2012, 01:39 PM
Very true Tickle though it does taste good. My body has been making me aware that because something tastes good it is not good for me. I have been eating better and when I go back to "junky food" I suffer the next day with stomach pains and worse.
Alty
Aug 7, 2012, 01:41 PM
Tickle, I agree. It is a heart attack on a plate, but damn, if I'm going to die, I'd like to die happy, and poutine makes me very happy. :)
JudyKayTee
Aug 7, 2012, 01:42 PM
omg! Only the best thing ever!
It's french fries, with cheese curds, covered in gravy. So very yummy! So very bad for you. But totally worth every single bite. :)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/poutine.jpg/250px-poutine.jpg
Bleccchhhhh!
albear
Aug 7, 2012, 01:44 PM
'poo-teen'
'poo-tyne'
Or is it kind of like the Jawas 'poo-tee-nee' (madatory high pitched voice)
Am I saying it right? eitherway doesn't sound that appetising.
Alty
Aug 7, 2012, 01:45 PM
bleccchhhhh!
Judy, it does look horrible, but really, it's heaven on a plate! So very good.
I'm drooling on my keyboard. Can we stop talking about poutine? Not fair! I don't have fries, gravy, or the right cheese. I can't make some right now, and I'm craving it like a meth addict craves meth. I want poutine!
I'll change the topic. Coconuts. They're neither cocoa, or nuts. Discuss. :)
Alty
Aug 7, 2012, 01:46 PM
'poo-teen'
'poo-tyne'
or is it kinda like the Jawas 'poo-tee-nee' (madatory high pitched voice)
am i saying it right?, eitherway doesnt sound that appetising.
LOL!
If you pronounce it the french way, and it is french, it's "puts in".
Now stop it! I'm dying here! I want poutine!
LadySam
Aug 7, 2012, 02:32 PM
Judy, it does look horrible, but really, it's heaven on a plate! So very good.
I'm drooling on my keyboard. Can we stop talking about poutine? Not fair! I don't have fries, gravy, or the right cheese. I can't make some right now, and I'm craving it like a meth addict craves meth. I want poutine!
I'll change the topic. Coconuts. They're neither cocoa, or nuts. Discuss. :)
Hmmm, Coconuts, wonder how they taste with cheese curds and gravy?
Alty
Aug 7, 2012, 02:34 PM
Hmmm, Coconuts, wonder how they taste with cheese curds and gravy?
Cut it out! ;)
LadySam
Aug 7, 2012, 02:44 PM
Cut it out! ;)
Ok, (hangs head in shame)
It looks absolutely disgusting, however french fries with gravy is a big thing where I'm from, no cheese curd.
I saw it described as "a heart attack in a bowl" on one site, and you could only get it in Canada, so I am safe. But I must say I would at least try it.
Wondergirl
Aug 7, 2012, 02:47 PM
It look like it could be soggy, mushy.
Alty
Aug 7, 2012, 02:54 PM
The first time I saw it I thought "That's disgusting". But when you eat it, you're hooked. It is sooooooo good!
Really, you guys are mean. I'm literally drooling here! I'm ready to hop in my car, drive downtown to get the best poutine I've ever had, and I really don't want to do that during rush hour!
Coconuts! Talk about coconuts! I don't like coconuts! :)
Wondergirl
Aug 7, 2012, 03:13 PM
I wonder if adding pieces of chicken or even lobster would make it taste even better. Or lamb. Or shrimp. It's close to suppertime and I'm hungry.
I wonder if it's available in the Rochester, NY area. I should visit my mom one of these days.
mogrann
Aug 7, 2012, 03:53 PM
The place in Calgary does that WG.. let me find the page for it.
https://www.facebook.com/mybigcheese?ref=ts Their Facebook page.
Wondergirl
Aug 7, 2012, 03:59 PM
I see mogrann got there before I did. Hmmmm...
Alty
Aug 7, 2012, 04:11 PM
La, la, la, la, not listening to poutine talk!
I'm not feeling the love! Evil people! Pure evil I tell you!
Just mean.
Nasty mean.
Someone get me poutine. I can't be held responsible for what I say or do on AMHD because I'm being teased with talk of poutine! I will not be held accountable.
You're all to blame for whatever I post today. Be afraid. Be very afraid. ;)
Wondergirl
Aug 7, 2012, 04:12 PM
There's a blog topic for you, Alty -- poutine. I can easily find pictures to go with it.
Alty
Aug 7, 2012, 04:17 PM
There's a blog topic for you, Alty -- poutine. I can easily find pictures to go with it.
I will willingly write a blog about poutine if you get me some poutine right now.
If I don't get poutine it's just going to be an angry, hate filled, venomous, evil blog about being denied, and the mean people that refuse to stop goading me about it. ;)
In other words, without poutine to eat, a blog about it won't be pretty.
Where is Bella? She started this! She should be the one going downtown to buy me poutine! Bella! Bella! You can't hide! You started this poutine thing. You will pay! ;)
Wondergirl
Aug 7, 2012, 04:18 PM
I can go with that. (anything to get an essay out of Alty... ) When we can send poutine via email, I'll send you some.
Alty
Aug 7, 2012, 04:24 PM
I can go with that. (anything to get an essay out of Alty....) When we can send poutine via email, I'll send you some.
Coconuts. Coconuts. Go to your happy place, think about coconuts, not poutine.
COCONUTS!
I want poutine!!
mogrann
Aug 7, 2012, 04:42 PM
Come visit me we can walk to the poutine store from here :)
Alty
Aug 7, 2012, 04:58 PM
Come visit me we can walk to the poutine store from here :)
COCONUTS! We're talking about coconuts, not poutine!
Evil people! Pure evil!
Do you all love me even a little bit? You're torturing me! I'm in physical pain!
Look... a squirrel!
Let's talk about squirrels! :)
LadySam
Aug 7, 2012, 05:11 PM
Coconuts, don't you hate how they are all hairy?
They are impossible to get into neatly and the milk is no good for cereal.
If you do manage to get into it the meaty part gets stuck in your teeth.
Squirrels, I love squirrels, they are cute, have fluffy tails but they have this weird obsession with nuts.
Alty
Aug 7, 2012, 05:17 PM
Coconuts, don't you hate how they are all hairy?
They are impossible to get into neatly and the milk is no good for cereal.
If you do manage to get into it the meaty part gets stuck in your teeth.
Squirrels, I love squirrels, they are cute, have fluffy tails but they have this weird obsession with nuts.
You are my new best friend Lady Sam. :)
When we were in Mexico, 10 years ago, I found a coconut on the beach. We brought it back and tried to hack it open to eat it. What a pain in the arse! But we did bust it open, after hours of trying. Frankly, it was the only food I found palatable on that trip. I found out 2 days before we left that I was pregnant with my daughter. No drinks on our all inclusive trip, and I was sick as a dog with parvo. :(
Love squirrels. They're funny. :)
albear
Aug 8, 2012, 02:16 AM
COCONUTS! We're talking about coconuts, not poutine!
Evil people! Pure evil!
Do you all love me even a little bit? You're torturing me! I'm in physical pain!
Look...a squirrel!
Let's talk about squirrels! :)
http://www.aspectofthehare.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/dug_up.jpg
Squirrel!
Aurora_Bell
Aug 8, 2012, 06:25 AM
Ok so update, the bloody cat lady went through a SPCA to get her vet bills covered and now the SPCA wants us to cover the rest of the bill! So Lady may be safe, but now she is trying to sue me for the remainder of the vet bills. Judy, still want to do that interview? I am at work right now, but I could email you her phone number? Can I call the vet and ask for a full report on injuries in writing?
JudyKayTee
Aug 13, 2012, 11:48 AM
Ok so update, the bloody cat lady went through a SPCA to get her vet bills covered and now the SPCA wants us to cover the rest of the bill! So Lady may be safe, but now she is trying to sue me for the remainder of the vet bills. Judy, still want to do that interview? I am at work right now, but I could email you her phone number? Can I call the vet and ask for a full report on injuries in writing?
I just saw this - didn't get a notice anything had been added.
I'm working, on my laptop.
You aren't entitled to report on someone else's animal. You ARE "entitled" to ask the Cat Lady for it. (I'm now going to begin calling her TECL, The Evil Cat Lady.) Why woult TECL expect you to pay the bill if you haven't seen it?
You'll need to explain to me how your SPCA works - off site is fine. Where I am IF the SPCA pays the bill the SPCA takes possession of the animal. How does it work where you are?
Sure - no problem investigating from this end, no problem at all.
Give me the details re: the SPCA, what she has said about the extent of the injuries to the cat. Does TECL think you are turning this over to insurance (homeowners)? Does she think something else.
The more info I have - and I'm not asking for your shoe size - the easier it is to engage her in conversation.
Does she talk to you, send letters, wrap a note around a rock and throw it through your window?
I'm working a matrimonial surveillance - I've spent hours in my car on my laptop since Thursday of last week - but it's winding down so, yes, I'll be around after tonight. One more day of following this guy around, waiting for him to cheat, and I'm going to march up to him and proposition him. Anything to end the boredom!
Anyway - send me the PM and I'll let you know what else I need to know.
JudyKayTee
Aug 14, 2012, 07:31 AM
Bella - would you let me know where this stands?
Aurora_Bell
Oct 3, 2012, 05:14 AM
Sorry Judy I didn't get notification, I'm posting from my phone. I thought you forgot about me! Here's the update. The neighbor lady called the RCMP, she basically accused me and my mom of threatening her. We told our side, the RCMP basically said be peaceful. After paying the money to the cat lady she went to a local shelter it wasn't SPCA, but the humane society, to have surgery done and they paid the rest of the bill, now they are coming after me to pay them. We have a court date in December, and as far as I know Lady will be on trial as well. I may have an over active imagination, but since said incident my fathers break lines have snapped, my mothers transmission line blew, my dads engine caught on fire and I had a nail in my tire... now I'm not pointing fingers, but damn!
Its been very tense around here, I don't leave lady outside by herself and I no longer allow e to play in back yard by her self. She still solutes her cats outside free roam. I guess at this point I'm just waiting until December to figure out what the heck is going on. Will I be responsible fur remaining vet bill
Aurora_Bell
Oct 3, 2012, 05:16 AM
I hit submit before I could edit and finish. Will I be held responsible fit remaining vet bill with written agreement between her and I to settle with x of dollars towards vet bill?
Aurora_Bell
Oct 3, 2012, 05:20 AM
Grr I hate posting from my phone. I just tried pming you Judy, but can't figure it out from my phone.
JudyKayTee
Oct 3, 2012, 07:05 AM
I hit submit before I could edit and finish. will I be held responsible fit remaining vet bill with written agreement between her and I to settle with x of dollars towards vet bill?
If you and the cat lady have a written agreement (sometimes verbal will be admitted) to pay X dollars on the Vet bill she cannot now come back at you for more. Only a written agreement changes a written agreement.
Have you actually paid her anything or paid anything toward the bills?
And, yes, I wondered why I haven't heard from you since I offered to obtain telephone statements.
Aurora_Bell
Oct 3, 2012, 02:35 PM
My laptop exploded, and just got busy with work, kept coming back to check notifications and only saw them in the peeves thread. I'm really sorry Judy, I don't want to appear ungrateful! Me and the TECL made a verbal deal, and I paid her $500 towards the vet bill, but lawyer advised me I didn't need to, and we were going to go toe to toe to get money back, but TECL promised to have my dog's head on a platter. She said I pay the $500 and we both wash our hands. After the monies were paid she went to the Humane Society, where they paid the remaining bill. A day later I get a phone call from them telling me I need to pay $800 and some change. I told them that I was not going to pay, a week or two later I got a summons to court for the remaining balance.
Aurora_Bell
Oct 3, 2012, 02:36 PM
I do have in writing where TECL agreed to drop all 'charges' once money was received.
JudyKayTee
Oct 3, 2012, 02:53 PM
I do have in writing where TECL agreed to drop all 'charges' once money was received.
I think you're good - she cannot change the terms, particularly AFTER accepting the money!
Aurora_Bell
Oct 5, 2012, 09:14 AM
I think so too. It was a real whirl wind for a while there. I'll make sure to keep you posted. I just purchased a mini netbook, it's almost easier to use the phone, but should be able to pop in more often now. Thanks for all the advice.
Aurora_Bell
Jun 5, 2013, 10:24 AM
So I guess I should come and update you all eh? Lady is home safe and sound, and I never did end up having to pay the remaining vet balance.
The neighbour that was renting the apartment in the house left suddenly in the middle of the night. The owner of the house told us it was demolished and they literally had to tear out walls and carpet to fix the house. I'll attach some pics to show you the mess she left. Goes to show you what kind of people I was dealing with. The owner of the house is now looking for the cat lady to pay the un paid rent for the last two months she was living there, as well as damage :o
Aurora_Bell
Jun 5, 2013, 10:24 AM
Here is what part of my fenced in yard looks like. What I am standing on is a totally covered deck.
Alty
Jun 5, 2013, 03:00 PM
Thank you for those pictures. I'm seriously feeling a lot better about my house now. :)
Glad that everything worked out. I love your yard!
Aurora_Bell
Jun 5, 2013, 03:54 PM
Haha I know, I keep going back to those pics, and it makes me feel SO much better about mine lol. That very first pic with the blue recycle bags in it, it also had a single, stained mattress where she informed me a 2 year old little girl slept. That was her room. It's technically a storage room, if you were to stand in the middle of the room, and stretched out your hands, both hands could lay flat on the wall and your elbows would still be bent :(
Sad thing was the apartment was brand new and when the woman and her kids moved in.
Alty
Jun 5, 2013, 04:01 PM
Wow! No matter how many times I hear of child neglect, or people that live like pigs, it still shocks me every time I hear about it. :(
Poor little girl. Sadly she's still with them. :(