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DIMyself
Jul 15, 2012, 09:16 AM
Hi to all,
The Richmond, Virginia rental I recently moved into still has its original untouched 1949 kitchen. Amenities include a 41" porcelain sink/base with built-in side board and 2 36" uppers. Aside from a stove, a fridge and a rather tired looking gas water heater, that's it. While quaint, it has zero counter space or meaningful cabinetry and I have convinced the landlord to let me do the update.
Let me just say at this point that I have all the necessary skills and experience to do this perfectly (both aesthetically and to code), but I'm new to cold country - which brings us closer to the question. My kitchen plan is quite efficient and even includes space for a full size stack washer and dryer, but only if I can relocate that old water heater. I want to install an electric 40 gallon up in the full height attic, but my landlord's property manager, Fred, (also well experienced) has severe reservations regarding eventual vacancies during December, January, and February when the piping above could freeze, burst and cause untold damage below.
I want to arm myself with a good argument for my plan, while still respecting Fred's concerns. I have installed hundreds of feet of PEX-a in Arizona using expansion fittings and know that it will be a good solution here. There is a small chimney formally used by the original stove now (poorly) venting the water heater and I plan to use that as a chase to route my utilities - lessening the water damage problem, but I want to hear from the community here about what other steps I might take as insurance (ie, a plumbed drain pan, perhaps pipe wrapping or sheathing, etc) and find out if you think my plan is sound.
Thanks,
DIMself

ballengerb1
Jul 15, 2012, 09:44 AM
Plumbing supply pipe in an unheaterd area in a home in Virginia is not a sound plan. You can expect freezing temps at least 3 months a year. Insulation will not help and an electric heat tape can fail as well as power outages. This would not be approved by the local building department and is not code.

DIMyself
Jul 15, 2012, 10:38 AM
Plumbing supply pipe in an unheaterd area in a home in Virginia is not a sound plan. You can expect freezing temps at least 3 months a year. Insulation will not help and an electric heat tape can fail as well as power outages. This would not be approved by the local building department and is not code.

The copper supply lines are already running under the house in the "unheated" crawl space. Is that somehow different? Not arguing, just saying...
It looks like it could be "back to the drawing board" or at least back to the VUSBC book.

ballengerb1
Jul 15, 2012, 10:52 AM
The crawl likely never freezes but is the heat and water ever shut off?

DIMyself
Jul 15, 2012, 11:07 AM
And thanks for the quick response, ballengerb1.
You know, I've been thinking about insulating and sheetrocking the attic after I finished the kitchen and using it as an office. If I were to instead finish the attic first and provide a vent for heat, would it then no longer be considered "an unheated area in a home"?

DIMyself
Jul 15, 2012, 11:11 AM
The crawl likely never freezes but is the heat and water ever shut off?

Yes, when I moved in everything was shut off - though the systems were not winterized. Another question, since I'm new to these parts; how is it that the crawl space - with all its air vents and virtual exposure to the elements doesn't freeze or cause concern?

ballengerb1
Jul 15, 2012, 11:19 AM
The earth under the house does not freeze in VA, air in the attic will freeze. If the heat is off in the winter then everything could freeze in time.

DIMyself
Jul 15, 2012, 11:29 AM
Okay, I understand that issue better now.
Is an electric water heater in the crawlspace a good idea?
That's where the natural gas furnace is.
Maybe I could provide a service/access hatch in the floor say under the refrigerator.

ballengerb1
Jul 15, 2012, 11:57 AM
Gas or electric would work in the crawl. Isn't there access to the crawl for the furnace already?

DIMyself
Jul 15, 2012, 01:39 PM
Yes, there's a small (30"w x18"h) cutaway under the back porch in the foundation for access. I've been through it twice so far - no fun. They must've installed the floor furnace unit by lowering it through the floor grate opening at one time. There is absolutely no way to get a 40gal (short or regular) through that side access, which is why I immediately thought about where I might put a new one big enough for a water heater. Also, I could then forget about the old access.