I was caught in retail theft for 76 usd.my court date is in July.I want to know what happens if your attorney does not turn up at the court or comes late.in such a situation if I'm alone at the court with no friends or family what can I do ?

Why would you think he wouldn't show up did the two of you have a fall out at some point?

You ask the court for a continuance.

But why would you expect him not to show up. Lawyers don't like to piss off judges.

I guess an attorney could be sick, or get stuck in traffic, but they are almost always there.

If he is not, you ask the court for time to wait, and if he still is not there, you ask the court for a new court date.

And you if you have to plead, plead not guilty.

Why would you think he wouldn't show up did the two of you have a fall out at some point?

No we didn't have a fallout .
But when he called me to his office for payment he himself came late.

Then 2 days later we were supposed to go to court to take permission for me to leave country and come back again for court date .he told me to meet at 10am and he himself came at half past ten .
So now I'm worried there is no way to make sure he is on time on the court day.

Of course I can tell him to be punctual but what will happen on that day will be on that day.I will be alone at the court ,for the first time ever involved in such a situation with no idea what to do.

I guess an attorney could be sick, or get stuck in traffic, but they are almost always there.

If he is not, you ask the court for time to wait, and if he still is not there, you ask the court for a new court date.

And you if you have to plead, plead not guilty.

Thank you for your reply.
Could you tell me how does one plead not guilty? What would I say ? I am asking this as its my first time ,I have no idea about all this and I only want to be prepared for the worst case scenario i.e. if my attorney is late or doesn't turn up.

thank you for your reply.
could you tell me how does one plead not guilty? what would i say ? i am asking this as its my first time ,i have no idea about all this and i only want to be prepared for the worst case scenario ie if my attorney is late or doesnt turn up.

I don't know where the case is. Generally you plead not guilty at an arraignment. The judge asks how you plead and you state not guilty.

A trial is then scheduled. If you are already at the trial stage you have already plead.

I don't know where the case is. Generally you plead not guilty at an arraignment. The judge asks how you plead and you state not guilty.

A trial is then scheduled. If you are already at the trial stage you have already plead.

The case is in chicago in July.my attorney says that he will go and ask for theft school since its my first time and the amount is very small - 76usd against old navy.after I do theft school he will get the case dismissed.
He said we are not pleading anything and hence not going to trial at all.
He had offered this solution as I don't want anything on record .do you think it's a good option?

By not knowing where the case is I meant where in process. But yes this sounds like a good option. Your attorney is trying to keep this off your record.

Your attorney sounds like a busy man. I wouldn't worry though about him being late for court. Sounds like he builds extra time in.

By not knowing where the case is I meant where in process. But yes this sounds like a good option. Your attorney is trying to keep this off your record.

Your attorney sounds like a busy man. I wouldn't worry though about him being late for court. Sounds like he builds extra time in.

Hee hee ,I didn't realize that you meant the process.
Please tell me if I'm coming to chicago only for this case and will be there for a limited time ,is it possible for me to request him to book a slot now itself in the theft school at the earliest possible date after court date.in this way I can do it asap after court and get it all done and over with in 10-15 days.

I do not know what would be required for scheduling at "theft school" (that really sounds strange, I assume it is a program to educate you on the evils of theft). That would be up to the court and the openings available for the program.

I do not know what would be required for scheduling at "theft school" (that really sounds strange, I assume it is a program to educate you on the evils of theft). That would be up to the court and the openings available for the program.

OK.so that probably means my attorney or I can't book it now .I have to wait till the judge at the court assigns it to me.which would mean I would I have to leave usa again and come bac again to do it.

Scottgem , I really want to say a big big thank you to you for answering all my questions so patiently. You have really been a big help. Are you an attorney ? Are you a man or a woman? I also read your answers to amy and you were giving her such good advice.I feel sorry for her ,I hope god will help her.
Once again thank you so so much...

ok.so that probably means my attorney or i can't book it now .i have to wait till the judge at the court assigns it to me.which would mean i would i have to leave usa again and come bac again to do it.

Scottgem , i really want to say a big big thank you to you for answering all my questions so patiently. you have really been a big help. are u an attorney ? are u a man or a woman? i also read ur answers to amy and you were giving her such good advice.i feel sorry for her ,i hope god will help her.
once again thank you so so much...

Thank you for the kind words. Glad I was able to help. I am male and not an attorney, but I have worked around the law several times in my career.

Thank you for the kind words. Glad I was able to help. I am male and not an attorney, but I have worked around the law several times in my career.

Dear scottgem,

What do you think can happen if I don't go to court on the said date?

And if I go and things don't go as per my attorney's plan what is the worst that could happen ?

You cannot not go to court. A warrant will then be issued for your arrest. But the worst that I can see happening is you getting probation and a record.

Dear scottgem,
Just for my understanding I want to ask you , if I live in another country and for the rest of my life never again go to the usa, then what will happen to that warrant?

On the other hand ,what is a probation and a record ? What happens to me if I get that ?

It is unlikely the US will pursue you over a shoplifting warrant. However I don't know if the fact that you have an outstanding warrant will come back to haunt you in another country.

Probation means that you don't have to go to jail but have to not comment another crime during your probation period. A record means that any background check for jobs, credit etc while show you have a criminal record.

I'm ex-Homeland Security/US Customs - I wouldn't be so sure the OP can get OUT of the US if there's an "open" arrest and/or a warrant on the books. All anyone has to do is run his name -

It is unlikely the US will pursue you over a shoplifting warrant. However I don't know if the fact that you have an outstanding warrant will come back to haunt you in another country.

Probation means that you don't have to go to jail but have to not comment another crime during your probation period. A record means that any background check for jobs, credit etc while show you have a criminal record.

OK.so if I don't commit any crime during probation period,what happens after that? Do I get a court date again and I have to appear or if I can't come to usa then my attorney can get the case finished?

My only connection with usa is a tourist visa (for when I come on vacations) and a crew visa (im a flight stewardess).so if I get a record ,when I will apply for both these visas again will my employer come to know ?
Also do you think I will be denied these visas again in future if I have a record?

ok.so if i dont commit any crime during probation period,what happens after that? do i get a court date again and i have to appear or if i can't come to usa then my attorney can get the case finished?

my only connection with usa is a tourist visa (for when i come on vacations) and a crew visa (im a flight stewardess).so if i get a record ,when i will apply for both these visas again will my employer come to know ?
also do u think i will be denied these visas again in future if i have a record?

I'm interested in what Scott has to say BUT I don't think you will be eligible for a visa if you have a criminal record.

If you don't appear and there is a warrant for you you will NEVER be able to leave and return to the US without being stopped.

Does your employer have to confirm that the visa is for work purposes?

I also have to ask - what were you thinking! Everybody does stupid stuff but this is your JOB that you put in jeopardy.

I'm interested in what Scott has to say BUT I don't think you will be eligible for a visa if you have a criminal record.

If you don't appear and there is a warrant for you you will NEVER be able to leave and return to the US without being stopped.

Does your employer have to confirm that the visa is for work purposes?

I also have to ask - what were you thinking! Everybody does stupid stuff but this is your JOB that you put in jeopardy.

Dear Judykay tee

I am already repenting what I did to the extent you can't imagine.I am so sorry you have no idea.
I don't think you got the correct picture.see I don't want any warrants or criminal records.I want to do the right thing and put this behind me.
I'm now back in the country where I live and work.
Before I left usa,I went to the court with my attorney and got written permission from court to leave usa and come back for court date.
Now I have the option of not coming for court date and never ever coming to usa for the rest of my life which is why I asked scottgem that qs.I asked him that only to know what happens in such cases.
In reality my ticket is booked and I am all set to come for my court date.I also have the letter from court that will let me enter usa as I'm only coming now to appear in the court on my court date.
Now I want to know what is the worst that could happen if things do not go according to my attorney's plan meaning theft school.so scottgem said probation and record.
So now if I clear probation without any crime what happens?

You asked about a visa with a conviction - I don't think you can get one.

I thought you were thinking about leaving the US and never coming back - ?

And Scott gives great advice and knows "his stuff."

When I was talking to scott,I meant if I finish probation without crime and have a record (given by court ),in such a case will I be able to get a visa later? What I meant was what is the status of a person who finishes probation without crime and has a record?

I was a tourist when this happened and I already left .when I asked scott I was thinking never ever coming to visit again and he was right in saying that a warrant may haunt me in another country and I know it will in my heart.

my only connection with usa is a tourist visa (for when i come on vacations) and a crew visa (im a flight stewardess).so if i get a record ,when i will apply for both these visas again will my employer come to know ?
also do u think i will be denied these visas again in future if i have a record?

This puts a different slant on things. If you do not show up I doubt if you will ever get a visa for the US again. I don't know what airline you work for but I would suspect that refusal to accept a US bound flight will have an affect on your employment. And you can't accept one because your job will learn why and skipping out will not look good to them.

As for what happens when your probation is up, that depends on the deal worked out by your attorney. I do think it a good sign that your attorney was able to negotiate your being able to go home and return for the hearing. In fact this give me a great deal of confidence in your attorney and you really should be asking your attorney these questions.

You made a mistake, don't compound that mistake by not taking responsibility and standing up and take your punishment. I suspect that part of the deal your attorney is working out will be your ability to get, at least, a crew visa in the future.

when i was talking to scott,i meant if i finish probation without crime and have a record (given by court ),in such a case will i be able to get a visa later? what i meant was what is the status of a person who finishes probation without crime and has a record?

i was a tourist when this happened and i already left .when i asked scott i was thinking never ever coming to visit again and he was right in saying that a warrant may haunt me in another country and i know it will in my heart.


You are either a tourist OR you fly in and out on business -

You are either a tourist OR you fly in and out on business -

I think she's saying, as an airline employee, she can hop a flight anytime to anywhere her airline flies. When she does, she gets a tourist visa, but when she flies as part of a crew she enters a country under a crew visa.

I think she's saying, as an airline employee, she can hop a flight anytime to anywhere her airline flies. When she does, she gets a tourist visa, but when she flies as part of a crew she enters a country under a crew visa.

Yes ,in my passport I have 2 US visas- crew and tourist .both will expire in November.

This puts a different slant on things. If you do not show up I doubt if you will ever get a visa for the US again. I don't know what airline you work for but I would suspect that refusal to accept a US bound flight will have an affect on your employment. And you can't accept one because your job will learn why and skipping out will not look good to them.

As for what happens when your probation is up, that depends on the deal worked out by your attorney. I do think it a good sign that your attorney was able to negotiate your being able to go home and return for the hearing. In fact this give me a great deal of confidence in your attorney and you really should be asking your attorney these questions.

You made a mistake, don't compound that mistake by not taking responsibility and standing up and take your punishment. I suspect that part of the deal your attorney is working out will be your ability to get, at least, a crew visa in the future.

Dear scottgem,
I will now tell u about my attorney.
To put things in order let me start from beginning.

I was on a 10 day vacation and lets say this horrible incident happened on 1st June eve. When I came back to the hotel early morn of 2nd June after 6 hrs in jail ,I Google searched attornies in chicago and called them in the morn.I met my attorney on 2nd June afternoon (I read nice reviews about him ) and lets call him john.
in his office we spoke for 30 mts where he answered my qs and said lets go to court tomorrow and get u theft school so it will look better on court date on 15th July as u would have already done it.
I was scared, tired and said can we go on 4th as I want to think some more.he said OK and we decided to meet at court at 9am.he said he charges usd500 for every visit to court and I paid him in cash in his office.
on 3rd I called up some more attornies and some of them told me nothing can be done for uptil a week as your papers will not reach court before then and until then u don't exist for the court.when I told one of them I already had an attorney he was surprised what john can achieve on 4th without any papers.and another attorney told me u can't leave country without permission from court as u may have trouble entering usa when u come for court in July.
on 3rd john also called me in the hotel and changed the time to 1pm and said due to schedulling.
on 4th he didn't turn up at 1 pm. I was scared and didn't know what to do. His phone went to voicemail and I left a message. He finally came at 1.30 pm,saw me ,didn't even say anything and rushed inside the court.I stopped him and told him I want him to get me that permission to leave country and come back again around 12 July.when I said I hope I can get theft school he said there is no theft school before 15 July.I was stunned because that was the reason I believed we were at the court that day.thats what he said in his office.
anyway I didn't say anything ,went inside and went in front of the judge and he spoke to him and got that letter.it said I have to leave for reasons of employment and will be back on 12 July.
once outside he said OK I will see u on 15th July.he said "i will either get the case dismissed or get u theft school".I said so how will I pay u-here outside the court on that day and he said yes. After that he left.
I stayed in chicago for 1 more day and called up one more attorney from Google.lets say he's nick. He spoke to me so patiently,made me write a timetable of how everything will work and how much time I will need for each stage until expungement.I thanked him for his guidance and he doesn't know about john.
I then came back to my home country.
now I have all the time to think (of all worst case scenarios) and I worry a lot and I know I ask a lot of qs.but there is no one to put my fears to rest.
in my culture what I did is a sin and shameful and that day in the police stn and jail when I kept crying one of the officers said I can just leave and never come back again.he was maybe trying to make me feel better and didn't know I was crew.

now in my airline there are many crew who don't have the US visa and don't fly there at all. In November both my crew and tourist visa will expire and I thought I will not apply again and never ever fly to USA again. But imagine living with the fear that there is a warrant somewhere for u. or imagine I fly to toronto or sao paulo and some passenger has a heart attack and the flight gets diverted to New York.then I will have another heart attack straight away as the arrest warrant will be welcoming me in JFK.
so I decided to go to court on 15 July, got leave from work and booked my ticket etc.I called up john a few times since I came back but it goes to his voicemail and I found this forum and ask u these qs that keep coming to my mind which I know I should ask john. But he is never there. I still don't what he had in mind to go to court for on 4th June.
I mean I was the one who found from another source about the letter for permission to leave country, it was not his idea though yes he does get points for getting that from the judge.

also during this time since I came back I called nick twice and he answered all those qs for me and put my fears to rest.I said what if judge says no to theft school ,then what is the worst case scenario.he said court supervision but also said he has handled 50 such cases of 1st time offenders in that same court in last 6 months and it was always theft school for them so there is very little chance of me getting rejected for theft school.
I think he knows me better than john even though I keep telling him I'm still thinking.maybe he is helpful because he thinks I will retain him ,doesn't know I already have an attorney and if he does come to know he will stop talking thinking he won't get any business from me.

yesterday I thought I had to talk to john because after all he is my attorney and he is supposed to answer my doubts.so I emailed him asking him of a good time to call him.he still hasn't answered.I just kept trying and he answered finally.

we spoke for less than 3 mts. After asking each other how we were , I told him I'm coming on 12th July .I then asked him the same thing and he said there won't be any other possibility other than theft school. I then said is it not possible to do the theft school before 15th July (which was originally his idea).he then said no that's not possible as we don't have a case yet and the judge has to assign it to u .I then said is it possible to book the next available slot for theft school after 15th July now itself so I don't have to wait after court on 15th and can do it asap instead of having to come back again to do it as my leave is only till 20 -25 July.he said the school will close in 10 mts ,let me call them and see what I can do .so I asked him should I call u back in half an hour so u can tell me what happened .he said I will email u.
but I have a feeling he just wanted me to hang up.
now maybe he is very confident of the resolution and hence finds all my concern a waste of time.he could also be very busy and hence only does what is needed.

so now this is where I stand .what do u think of all this ?

OK, so maybe John thought he could get you into theft school earlier. But I still think he's doing the right thing. I think you still show up for your hearing. I think the most likely scenario is that you can do the theft school and get your record expunged. And that the worst case is probation and a misdemeanor record.

So stop stressing and let this run its course.

OK, so maybe John thought he could get you into theft school earlier. But I still think he's doing the right thing. I think you still show up for your hearing. I think the most likely scenario is that you can do the theft school and get your record expunged. And that the worst case is probation and a misdemeanor record.

So stop stressing and let this run its course.

Thank you scott. Yes I should stop stressing . I am going to the court on the said date and will tell you what happened once its over.do you think if I get probation I can leave USA and come back as my leave will finish and I have to resume work after 20th.I hope probation doesn't mean staying in chicago so they can watch me.

Given that they let you return home while awaiting your hearing, I can't see them requiring you stay in Chicago for probation.