I am having a little trouble with my new puppy and after reading as many puppy pooping in crate posts as possible I'm not convinced I have a clear direction to take.

The problem at hand is he only seems to poop in his crate even though I'm at home and he has ample time in poop in his designated area.

I've had him for 5 days and have been home all of them to aid in his training. He's got a clean bill of health from the vet and Im keeping him on the proper amounts of high end puppy food with a regular schedule of 7AM, 12PM, and 5PM.

I'm trying to properly crate train him and paper train him. When he's not in his crate (which is just big enough for him to turn around, etc.) he's in my kitchen which has another bed and a section of paper to do his business on.

When he's in his crate, I am having a hard time distinguishing whether he's crying and whining because he doesn't want to be in there or he has to go. I've caught him circling a few times and pulled him out and put him right onto paper. That has worked a couple of times.

I play with him every couple of hours in the kitchen and wait to let him do his business, but I can leave him in there for 4 hours and he'll do nothing. I put him back in his crate and within minutes he's going to poop.

I've tried taking him out immediately and putting him in the kitchen to see if he'll go more or pee, and I've also tried leaving him in it for 15 minutes so he's uncomfortable. Anytime he fouls an area he shouldn't I clean it and spray it down with Natures Miracle.

In the crate he's on a little puppy bed with safe toys to occupy him. I had him just on paper in the crate and he did the same. In my mind, wouldn't putting him on paper in the crate confuse him when the immediate goal is to have him poop on paper in the kitchen?

Where should I go from here? I am aware that he's young and this just may take a little more time, but if there's anything I should do different please give me any suggestions.

Sorry this was so long, but I wanted to be as detailed as possible.

Thanks!

- Andrew

If there is a good solution, I haven't found it. I would make a few suggestions. First see the housebreaking sticky at https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/dogs/information-articles-our-dogs-expert-labman-53153.html#post251809 I don't like paper training. It only creates the additional problem of eventually retraining the dog to go outside. If you do continue it, treat the paper as I suggest the spot outside. In cold weather, it helps to keep a coat where you can grab it on your way out.

I don't crate the puppy when I am around. I do not understand the logic of it. You need the puppy out where you can watch it. It is natural for the big dogs to leave the puppy in the den when they are gone. When somebody is around, the puppy expects to be with them. Being left by itself in the crate creates the stress and resentment bringing on bowel movements.

Since you took time to read other threads, I won't repeat what I have said before. I do think the wonders of buying Google key words does bring a disproportionate number of questions on dogs fouling crates. Too bad I don't have a good answer to it. There is some other good advice in the sticky too.

Here are my suggestions, and how I have house broken all my dogs:

1. Keep the puppy on a schedule, which you are now doing.
2. Don't train him to go on paper, teach him to go outdoors.
3. As soon as he wakes.. take him out
4. As soon as he has eaten.. take him out
5. Praise him like mad when he does his duty outdoors.. clap you hands softly and use a high pitched "Good Boy!!!!!!" Show him how happy you are!
6. Watch him when he is playing.. if he suddenly stops playing and starts sniffing around... get him outside! When he does his business outside... praise him!
7. It helps to leave a little poop where he should be going, and take him to the same place each time.

Remember.. keep him on a routine and remember.. pups need to go potty often!
I have never had to use a crate to train any of my dogs, and have house broken them in very little time.

Good Luck, and feel free to ask questions.
Jackie

Thank you to both of you for responding so quickly! I am yet to take him outside because I am waiting for him to receive all of his puppy shots. He has a little cold that is clearing up with the help of some meds and I live in Manhattan, so I'm not to keen on putting him out there in the cold yet.

I will keep him out in his kitchen area when I'm home more. He seems more comfortable there anyway. Another trainer I spoke with suggested the bit of poop idea. I will give that a try. I also just covered up his crate a bit, seems more den like.

I also started a little "Poo-Pee" spreadsheet to make some rhyme and reason to his movements.

Thanks again!! I'll keep you posted on the little guy.

Here's today's update and a question.

He has been in the kitchen more or less all day and has been peeing every couple of hours on the paper. He pooped once this morning at 7:45 on the paper.

I'm thinking if I leave now or even earlier he gets so anxious in his crate being left alone that he will go in there.

I have been home pretty much since I took him home. I know I need to break the attachment a little. Should I leave and chance the going in his crate until he's learns to be less anxious and hold it? Also, is it normal for the pup to only poop a couple of times a day?

Thanks

Andrew

Many books recommend leaving the puppy alone in the crate for short periods at first and then longer and longer. It is not in my sticky because I doubt many people would be able to do it. We usually couldn't. It is often bed time when we get home with the new puppy and it soon is left for the night in the crate, and all morning the next day. I would say try it if you can when you go out.

Here's today's update and a question.

He has been in the kitchen more or less all day and has been peeing every couple of hours on the paper. He pooped once this morning at 7:45 on the paper.

I'm thinking if I leave now or even earlier he gets so anxious in his crate being left alone that he will go in there.

I have been home pretty much since I took him home. I know I need to break the attachment a little. Should I leave and chance the going in his crate until he's learns to be less anxious and hold it? Also, is it normal for the pup to only poop a couple of times a day?

Thanks

Andrew

Hurrah! He peed AND pooped on the paper today!! Good Puppy! This is an improvement, right? Did he have any accidents in his crate today? I've never used a crate for training, but I would think perhaps putting him in his crate occasionally while you are in the room might be a good thing to do. He could be associating the crate with being alone, and maybe scared?? If there was a way to put him in the crate and give him a piece of his dog food as a treat... maybe he would see that when he is in the crate good things can happen... not just bad things.

Usually, a pup will have a bowel movement for every meal he eats during the day.

Is your avatar a picture of your little guy? :)

Keep up the good work Andrew!

That is a pic of him... I just went out for an hour. Pooped and peed in his crate. I know he can hold it because he's been in the kitchen all day without pooping (since 745 am). It seems he's waiting to get in there to do it.

What to do, what to do...

Where did you get him? It is possible before you got him, he was held in a small cage and forced to live in his filth. That creates a very difficult situation to straighten out. Leaving him in the crate when you were around would have seemed normal to him, the place where he always eliminated. He enjoys being out of the crate in a clean area, and doesn't want to foul it.

You may need to try outside. Do the areas available to you have other dogs of unknown health care? If so, it is risky. If not, it is fairly safe. I take young puppies everywhere, often in urban areas where I have to use what ever is available, weedy alleys or something. It is also important that he is being exposed to different people, other dogs, and anything else you want him to be comfortable with. You can't wait for the shots. If not done by 12 weeks, you could end up with a dog you can't take anywhere.

Pick a likely time and take him out on leash. Walk him around, keep going except when he stops to sniff. Otherwise, keep going. I have often found young puppies can go half a block without having to have a bowel movement. Too many times, I have just nicely gotten in somewhere, and suddenly the puppy is humping up its back. Now I park near the store, walk out the grass at the far side of the parking lot, give the dog its chance, and they walk back to the store. Usually once I have walked it that much, it is safe to go in someplace. Understand, I am talking about 10 week olds.

I got him from a very reputable puppy store. I contacted another "star" bulldog breeder who never even returned my messages. He was in the puppy store isolated in a nursery for just one night before I took him. I don't know the conditions he was living in at his breeders. I had him at my parents last weekend and will bring him this weekend to socialize with them and their dogs. (full grown lab and a 14 week old dogue de bourdeaux)

I have an appt with the vet Sat morning and will have him give him another thourough check and see what he says about his cold and going outside too. Do you think it's healthy for him to hold poop in for 12 hours when he's got free space in the kitchen to go when he needed?

Thanks again! I really appreciate your time.

Well... here's another update. I wish it was a good one, but it's not at all.

I've done everything that's been suggested and he still poops in his crate. I try to leave him in the kitchen when I'm home, but he now immediately tears up his wee-wee pads. I'd let him go to town until he's bored and doesn't get a reaction from me, but he gets cotton from the pads stuck in his mouth.

I wrote down every time he peed and pooped to check out his schedule. Every morning he poops about 45 min after feeding. This morning two hours pass by (while he's in the kitchen) nothing. I put him in his crate, within one minute he's pooping.

I've been taking him outside (against vet's suggestion), twice he pooped outside, three times he did nothing until he came back in.

Where can I go from here?

Also, do anyone have suggestions for biting. I know he's teething, but I don't want him constantly biting my fingers and feet. I tried spraying Binaca on the area he was biting. Seems to love the taste...

I do have experience with biting, but no quick, easy solution.
Young Labs, which I know best, and other puppies tend to very bad about
Biting. You see a litter of them, and all the ones that are awake are biting
Another one or themselves. I am not even sure they realize that when they are
Alone, if they quit biting, they would quit being bitten. At 3 to 4 months
They are getting their adult teeth, and it seems they spend every waking
Moment biting or chewing. One thing you can do at that stage is to knot and wet a piece of cloth. Then freeze it. The cooling will soothe the gums. Only let the puppy have it when you are there to watch it. I maintain a Lab's favorite chew toy is another
Lab. Otherwise they settle for any person they can. They keep hoping to find
One that won't yelp and jerk their hand away, or growl "Bad dog." and clamp
Their mouth shut. Then offer a chew toy. They keep trying despite hundreds
Of corrections. Another good technique is to quit playing and go away. Be
Sure to praise them when they are playing nice and not biting.

You just have to keep on correcting them, hundreds of times, not dozens.
Provide sturdy, safe toys such as Kongs and Nylabones. Avoid things they can
Chew pieces off and choke on them. Keep them away from electrical cords.
Crates are essential for most young Labs and other dogs.

The pet stores are full of toys that many dogs will quickly chew up into
Pieces they could choke on or cause intestinal blockages. If you are not
There to watch, stick to sturdy stuff such as Nylabones and Kongs. Keep a
Close eye on chew toys and quickly discard anything that is coming apart in
Pieces. Rawhide is especially bad because it swells after being swallowed.
These problems are the worst with, but not limited to, large, aggressive
Chewers such as Labs.

Ropes from the pets' store quickly turn to hazardous shreds. Ones I made
Lasted much better. Go to a hardware or home center that sells rope by the
Foot. Buy 2' of 3/4" poly rope. Melt the ends, and tie knots in it. Get
Them as tight as possible, put it in a vise and pound it with a hammer. Watch
Carefully, and be ready to discard when it comes apart.

I hate to see a dog drugged, but this is one of the few successes I see in such cases, https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/dogs/pooping-crate-55783.html I think there was another thread that mentioned Rymadril or something. I don't see how I can condemn drugs if I don't another answer.