Greetings,

I'm looking for some ideas on the best way to handle moving a shower drain. House was built in early 70's, we are remodeling the master bath and replacing the shower as it was leaking pretty bad, it was a custom tile shower and we are trying to replace with a 2 piece fiberglass insert with benches. The insert is the same size as the old shower 48x34. The problem is that the insert is a center drain but the original shower was not a center drain, its about 6 inches to the right (towards the piping) of center. The drain is also kind of strange... it looks like it's a big 7 inch steel pip in the floor (like the toilet drains) with a plate welded to it with a short piece of 2 inch pipe threaded into the center of it.

We are simply trying to get the bathroom fixed so we can move out, so nothing fancy needed at all, simplest, least expensive way to do this, but done right.

I'm scared of what I would find if I took out the slab and how much I would have to do to get it working. I'm kind of wondering about a platform install... but, don't it to be a problem for future owners.

Any and all suggestions welcome! Thanks in advance.

I bet a good Craftsman/Tile Person, could use the Enclosure and have Tile Floor, leaving the Drain alone?
I can't see it, someone may?

Platform or a tile base with plastic enclosure? I don't like either one. What I would do is take up the slab and move the stub up.( you won't be using the old drain since the new base will have one of its own.) you can then patch the slab and install your shower. Good luck, Tom

Tom, I agree, after doing a lot more reading, I would definitely like to just throw down a platform, but I've been remodeling this house for far too long to do a hack job at the end. I'm attaching some pics of this. Also, some more info, the sewer exit from the house about 2 feet from this drain, the left wall in the photos is the house's original exterior wall and where the pipe comes out of, so I'm assuming this drain goes right into the that exit. Looking at photos on the internet and books, etc... I can't find anything that looks like what I have here, so, any thoughts on what I might expect to find when I go to chopping out the slab. How big a can of worms will I be opening?

Tom, I agree, after doing a lot more reading, I would definitely like to just throw down a platform, but I've been remodeling this house for far too long to do a hack job at the end. I'm attaching some pics of this. Also, some more info, the sewer exit from the house about 2 feet from this drain, the left wall in the photos is the house's original exterior wall and where the pipe comes out of, so I'm assuming this drain goes right into the that exit. Looking at photos on the internet and books, etc... I can't find anything that looks like what I have here, so, any thoughts on what I might expect to find when I go to chopping out the slab. How big a can of worms will I be opening?
What you have is a flange type shower drain, (see image) This is used in tile floors and will be discarded as you will get a new drain with your new shower base and enclosure. What's go you spooked? If you wish I can walk you through this. I expect that your pipes are cast iron. We'll cut back and transition to PVC for the new drain line. If you demo the slab and keep sending me pictures we can sail right through moving the drain. It don't even take a lot of plumbing smarts, This is what I'd call a easy job. The hardest part will be breaking up the slab. Just hang in there and sen me a picture of what's under the slab and we'll start a material list. Regards, Tom

Ok, Ya, I'm already am feeling a lot more comfortable after reading through our walk-throughs for other folks on other threads :).

I plan to start tearing out the slab in a couple days, will post some pics after I get it all cut out. Thanks again for the help... I already feel a lot more equipped to tackle this.

I'll keep this thread open. Go for it! Good luck, Tom

Ok, got the drain dug up, going to attach some pictures, let me know if a better angle is needed to get a good luck. The plumb bob is where the new drain is need to be placed for the pan...

Also, the enclosure didn't come with a drain kit, so, what should I get for that? Should I look at one of the glueless types?

OK! I'm assuming the drain line's cast iron. That will have to be cut with a Saws-All. Saw,
I can't tell you exactly where to make the cut but if I were doing it I'd take a 2" street 45 degree PVC elbo, Line it up on the drain line and mover it back until it pointed directly at the plumb bob. That will b e your cut. Remember measure twice and saw once. You will need.
A 2" Fernco Shielded Metal coupling, a 2" PVC street 45, 1' of 2" Pvc pipe,( for the raiser) and a 2" PVC "P" trap, You will also need PVC cement and primer.
What do your shower base instructions say about the drain? Do they suggest bedding the shower floor? Can you give me a link to that instruction sheet. Surely they must have addressed the fact that they didn't furnish a drain with your unit, Let me know when you have the materials. Tom

Tom, thanks for the speedy reply! Ok, here's the link to the insert I have. Aquatic Bathware - Aquatic Bath: Everyday Bathroom (http://www.aquaticbath.com/Products/Everyday/Remodeline-Sectionals/14832P.aspx?shower=1&pieces=2&size=32:48)

They say to bed is with Plaster of Paris?? But I would think thinset is the better option, your reocmmendation?

Ok, on the drain line, I'm not real clear. Are you saying that I set the 45 where the current trap comes into the wye? Also, you are correct, it is cast iron. The current riser is black PVC, but the P-trap and everything else is cast iron.

Thanks again!

When I went to your shower website it told me that a Brass shower drain was included, Did it not come with the shower?

I'm not real clear. Are you saying that I set the 45 where the current trap comes into the wye? What part of this don't you understand? Where to place the 45? How to place the 45?
Take a 2" street 45 degree PVC elbo, Line it up on the drain line and mover it back until it pointed directly at the plumb bob. That will b e your cut.
One more time. Place the hub of the 45 next to the trap and over the cast iron pipe. Line up the street end exactly with the run of the CI pipe. Now carefully move the 45 back until the center of the hub's in line with the plumb bob. The street end marks the spot where you will make your cut. Does that explain it better?

They say to bed is with Plaster of Paris?? But I would think thinset is the better option, your reocmmendation? We have used cement to bed our floors.
Let me know how you're coming along. And check on that brass drain they say they furnish. Tom

Ok, sorry for being thick headed... I was first visualizing pointing the 45 towards the plumb bob, I *think* I'm getting the picture a little better, but I may still be off. I'm attaching a pic of how I have the 45 laid on the drain. If I'm understanding this correctly, are we essentially just trying to swivel the drain over to where it needs to be located?

Again, sorry for being thick headed.. I'm having a hard time visualizing how this fits.

Also, on the drain, apparently that's an optional thing and wasn't included. So I'm assuming I can just pick up a brass drain and that be good.

Thanks a bunch for your patience with me.

Hi Jeremy, I've been watching your progress, you've got a good project going. I'm curious as to how tall the current pvc riser is? Tom, could he cut in there instead of the ci?

The offset appears like it is too far to utilize the vertical pipe, so I'd remove the trap here.

Cut the trap out first (see image on where to cut)... use a bimetal sawzall blade, or even quicker, purchase a diamond sawzall blade (quickest cut) for the cut, or you could also cut straight down using a metal cutting wheel on a grinder (wear goggles here).

Clean the area you will cut first or the blade won't last long.

After you cut the pipe install the shielded clamp and dry fit (fit, but don't cement fittings together) the Ptrap to start... may or may not need a 45 degree fitting. Use the 90 that came with the trap!!

Swing the trap and see how it all lines up. Post a picture as you go, OK?

Good luck!

Mark

Use the 90 that came with the trap! What 90 that came with the trap" Any trap I ever bought was just that, A trap. When did they start add 90's to a trap and why?
Mark, You set him up ton use a 90 instead of a 45. Is there a reason for this? If I have a choice between using a 90 and a 45 in a drainage line I'm going to go with a 45. Don't you agree? Regards, Tom

I set him up to use the 90 that came with the trap, Tom... ;)

I said, "After you cut the pipe install the shielded clamp and dry fit (fit, but don't cement fittings together) the Ptrap to start... may or may not need a 45 degree fitting. Use the 90 that came with the trap! "

He may want to fit the Ptrap and then use 45s to offset the vertical pipe to final position, if needed.

:)

Hi Jeremy, I've been watching your progress, you've got a good project going. I'm curious as to how tall the current pvc riser is?? Tom, could he cut in there instead of the ci?

No! The raiser is 6" out of line. Regards, Tom

So now when you buy a trap they pack you with a 90 along with the trap?> Is there a reason for this outside of extra profit" Which brings me back to why use a 90 in drainage when you can use a 45? You're not even recommendinga short sweep. What am I missing here? Regards, Tom

Ok, sorry for being thick headed... I was first visualizing pointing the 45 towards the plumb bob, I *think* i'm getting the picture a little better, but I may still be off. I'm attaching a pic of how I have the 45 laid on the drain. If I'm understanding this correctly, are we essentially just trying to swivel the drain over to where it needs to be located?

Again, sorry for being thick headed.. I'm having a hard time visualizing how this fits.

Also, on the drain, apparently that's an optional thing and wasn't included. So I'm assuming I can just pick up a brass drain and that be good.

Thanks a bunch for your patience with me.
On the bottom picture . The 45 is laying correctly, After lining the fitting up on the pipe. Slide the 45 back until the center of the hub points directly at the plumb bob. That will be your cut if you use a 45.
Mark gave you the simplest way but I don't like to use 90's in drain lines. It's Just the way my Dad taught me, Cheers, Tom

Tom, did you see this (see first image)?

Now do you understand why I said to "Use the 90 that came with the trap.. all ptraps come with 90s?! (see image).

Gee! And all these years I always thought that street 90 was a part of the trap because without it you'd have a 2" return bend, I see said the blind man. I thought you were coming off the cast iron with a 90 to line the trap up. Sorry if I misunderstood! Thanks Mark. Tom

HI jeremy. Hope Im not to late. In your pics, I think I see some rubber where the trap connects to the wye? If so, you are in luck, as your cast iron joints aren't leaded in, they are using a rubber bushing which would mean you can actually just twist and pull the trap out (with a bit of effort). I may be seeing this incorrectly, so let me know, okay? If this is the case, just get the trap out, purchase a new fernco bushing/donut and insert it all back together with the st 45 in the bushing, then the swing of the trap should be enough to get you where you need to be. Hope Im right here. Good luck.

I have to say you have the Best Helping, and you are doing good, I was curious if it is worth it to cut the cast iron "Y" out and install PVC? Does it allow a closer or more accurate position of your drain, does what is mention allow him to do that with the cast Iron "Y"?

Hey Strat, I understand exactly what you are saying. Definatley going to have to lay the fittings out before doing any cutting to see if he has room to make this work without cutting the wye out. Hard to say without knowing exactly the room he has. Good call though, it really may come down to that. Lets hope not, as it looks like it would require some more breaking of the concrete. Of course, at this stage in the game, a little more work may be the way to go.

Wow, this thread lit up... Ok, to address some of the stuff in the thread.

I didn't get a 90 with the trap... after you said to use the 90 with the trap, I thought when I grabbed the trap out of the bin, I missed a piece, so I was going to head back to the store tomorrow, but, perhaps it didn't come with a 90, do I need to get one? Also, I didn't notice this until I got home, but the trap has a place for a drain plug in the bottom, should I have got a trap without this, or just plug it?

Next, in the picture that isn't a 90, that's actually the 45 dry fitted to the trap, just in case that's caused confusion.

Last, yes, the fittings around the cast iron wye are rubber, and yes, it would take some more floor removal to completely expose the wye.

OK! First off the "P" trap and the 90'
I didn't get a 90 with the trap... after you said to use the 90 with the trap, I thought when I grabbed the trap out of the bin, I missed a piece, so I was going to head back to the store tomorrow, but, perhaps it didn't come with a 90, do I need to get one? Don't feel bad. This confused me too. Since the street 90 is a integral part of the trap I thought the same as you and gave Mark a hard time of it until he explained what he meant. Go back and read the posts between Mark and myself. If it were me I'd leave the wye alone. This is a simple operation, let's not get it all complicated. Mark thinks the trap will swing enough to make it over to the plumb bob but I have my doubts. So now you have options. You can cut on his mark and see if the trap will swing enough and if it doesn't make it you can follow my instructions and cut farther back and use the 45r. Good luck and I'm sorry about the trap and 90 confusion. Tom

Hi Jeremy

Yeah, the trap came with a 90 (street 90) so you definitely need to get that AND you would be best to get a Ptrap WITHOUT the cleanout as it will never get used and it can actually catch hair/soap scum, so get a new Ptrap without cleanout.. including the street 90.

In terms of MGD77's suggestion of just twisting out the old cast iron trap... you can do that, but I have a feeling that inserting the new donut and new piece of pipe/fitting may be a hassle for you in such a tight space so I'm still recommending that you make the cut on the old Ptrap like I showed you in the image.

Clean all up real well and then dry fit everything. As Tom said, I think you can do this without the 45, but if needed the 45 is more than acceptable here!

That's my input... sorry if I added any confusion to the thread!

Mark

Ok, I'm about to cut of the old trap and see if we can get this to fit. I went and got a new trap, without and plug, and including the 90. I couldn't even find what I ended up with yesterday, so I don't know.

One more question, how do I connect the 90 hub to the cast iron with the fernco? Am I going to have a small piece of pip welded into the 90 hub that the fernco fits over?

Yeah, cut a 2" piece of 2" PVC pipe and dry fit (for now) it into the 90... fernco will fit over the pipe. Later, if all lines up right you can prime/cement everything.

Ok, Here is some pics of the dry fitting, without the 45 when I swivel the bend it's a little too far from the place it needs to be, however, adding the 45 and fitted this way, the plumb bob is dead down the center of the vertical pipe.

However, this looks pretty tweaked, is this what it should look like and will this work?

Looks perfect to me... :) Prime/cement it up... just be sure to double check your measures... only get one shot at it!

Yep, looks perfect to me too. Good job. Now, just remember to wrap the standpipe with something (carboard, etc, or even put a coffee can around it, Great Idea from Mark) so you have room for your shower drain and so that the standpipe isn't poured directly in concrete. You want anywhere from an inch to a couple inches all the way around the standpipe. Looks like your all set.

While those walls are off, consider TV, tel, Coax Camera, Intercomm, Alarm, speakers, etc... before you put up drywall, it doesn't get easier or cheaper than now.

Ok... I did it... It actually was much simpler than I figured it would be, I didn't realize that you could spin that trap around like that, I figured it all needed to be inline. Anyhow, I measured twice, test fit the pan, measured twice again, marked the pvc anfd glued it up. It sets in there great, got the concrete up and I'm happy to be done with this part!

I picked up a brass drain that has the rubber seal inside it. I'm assuming this is the way to go, hook it up to the pan, and it slides down onto the vertical pipe. With that in mind, where do I need to cut vertical pipe, I'm been doing this with the assumption that the pipe is either flush with the floor, or above it a small bit. I think I have enough space to cut it below the floor if needed, but it would be a pain... Probably a question I should have asked before... you live and learn.

I found the properly sized box and put it in there... The enclosure asked for a minimum of 6 inches, I've also noticed on new houses some have rather holes around them, so I figured 6 inches would be good.

Thanks for all the help thus far... I've learned a lot to add to my repertoire!

You have done better than many Plumbers? I have seen.

Got the enclosure in, The rough in for the old shower was an inch bigger than it needed to be, I assume to allow for drywall. So I had to add some material to bring it to the right size.. But it worked!

Thanks again for all the help! The drain, drains great! I've been intimidated by this project for a long time now. I'm indeed thankful for the help I got to get it done.

Hey! Looking good! Kudos and congrats for a job well done. Tom