Hi I'm from California I got quick question... me and my X-wife got joint custody of 4 minor children (father) I got the kids on the weekdays and she got the kids on the weekend... I I formed my wife that I'm taking the kids to Utah and I'm keeping the kids for the weekend bcoz were going out of town just to drop of my brother to Utah... we only stay in Utah fr 2 days and we come back right away after me and my family drop my brother we went back right away to California right after and now my wife took me too court or they do the exparty notice that they said I kidnap or abduct my own children now she got the temporary sole custody of the kids and we got the court date on the 30th of this month... my mom going to testify that we don't have any intention to take the kids away from their mother do u think the picture taken in Utah and recipt from the hotel that we stay... U think that will help my case

If what your saying is true. Then you need a lawyer. What proof do you have that you told her you were going and when you were going to return ?

I got the kids on the weekdays and she got the kids on the weekend... I I formed my wife that I'm taking the kids to Utah and I'm keeping the kids for the weekend

And that's where you made your mistake. Your wife has the children on weekends. You can't "inform" her you are taking the children, you have to ASK her permission since you are keeping the children for what is HER time.

And if she said no, then you could not take the children or you would have to go to court for permission.

If your ex has an attorney you better get one. Even if she doesn't you should have one. I don't think she can make the charges stick. But the judge is not going to look kindly on your defy the court ordered visitation.

If what your saying is true. Then you need a lawyer. What proof do you have that you told her you were going and when you were going to return ?
I've been asking her for the past 2months and I remind her a month before and couple days before we go to Utah it's in my statement already that I did all she said take the kids but I'm not going to give you money and she slam the door... do that one count or no?

If you can prove that, you should have no problems

And that's where you made your mistake. Your wife has the children on weekends. you can't "inform" her you are taking the children, you have to ASK her permission since you are keeping the children for what is HER time.
[QUOTE=evo630hp I've been asking her and informed her for the past 2 months and couple days before we go to Utah all she said is take the kids but I'm not gonna give you money anymore do that one count or no? And u think it will help that my mom gonna testify and we got some picture and recipt from the hotel that we stay at and to prove that I did not kidnap my own kids u think that will help a little bit...and u think in ur own opinion u thin I can get the kids back or at least re-enstate the custody on me bcoz they accusing me that I kidnap my own children?
And if she said no, then you could not take the children or you would have to go to court for permission.

If your ex has an attorney you better get one. Even if she doesn't you should have one. I don't think she can make the charges stick. But the judge is not going to look kindly on your defy the court ordered visitation.

[QUOTE=ScottGem;3129573]And that's where you made your mistake. Your wife has the children on weekends. you can't "inform" her you are taking the children, you have to ASK her permission since you are keeping the children for what is HER time. do u think that's bad on my part I've been crying and I don't know what to do... I miss my kids I'm just scared loose my kids is there any advice u can give me in your own opinion

What exactly are the child custody/visitation ruling, and/or parenting plan? You might want to re-read it all. You write you have had joint physically custody does that include both of you having shared legal custody? You have had them more than her, so does this mean you have been the primary custodial parent? Were allowances included for reasonable emergency situations during custodial time with the children, where you or she needed to keep them longer therefore crossing-over into the others parent's time with them? Also, was there an "Automatic Temporary Restraining Order" in affect preventing either of you from removing the child/children from the state during the time in question? Perhaps asking for a modification or another evaluation addressing custody of the children might be favorable before you are prevented from seeing them freely with supervised visitation only. Defying your ex-wife is one thing, but defying a court ruling is a bigger problem, as I'm sure you now realize. I think if I were you, I would humble myself in the court room and formally apologize to the mother of your children and to the court for your lack of respect in not honoring what is the best interest of your children. They deserve their time with their mother as much as their time with you and now your time with them is jeopardized, but not hopeless, I would think. Good luck and I hope you and their mother can work out an amenable solution for the sake of your children.

You should have gotten it in writing that you had permission to take the children. But, if you can show that she knew you wanted to take the children and that she did not specifically forbid it, then the judge is not likely to rule against you.

What exactly are the child custody/visitation ruling, and/or parenting plan? You might want to re-read it all. You write you have had joint physically custody does that include both of you having shared legal custody? You have had them more than her, so does this mean you have been the primary custodial parent? Were allowances included for reasonable emergency situations during custodial time with the children, where you or she needed to keep them longer therefore crossing-over into the others parents time with them? Also, was there an "Automatic Temporary Restraining Order" in affect preventing either of you from removing the child/children from the state during the time in question? Perhaps asking for a modification or another evaluation addressing custody of the children might be favorable before you are prevented from seeing them freely with supervised visitation only. Defying your ex-wife is one thing, but defying a court ruling is a bigger problem, as I’m sure you now realize. I think if I were you, I would humble myself in the court room and formally apologize to the mother of your children and to the court for your lack of respect in not honoring what is the best interest of your children. They deserve their time with their mother as much as their time with you and now your time with them is jeopardized, but not hopeless, I would think. Good luck and I hope you and their mother can work out an amenable solution for the sake of your children.



Please read more carefully if your going to answer questions in the law board. Your post doesn't make sense from the OP's standpoint and there isn't legal advice in it. We try to be as accurate as possible with the information given.

[QUOTE=Evo630hp;3129645] do u think that's bad on my part I've been crying and I don't know what to do... I miss my kids I'm just scared loose my kids is there any advice u can give me in your own opinion

Its normal to have depression during separation. You just need to get it together so you don't blow it at this important junction.

Prove that you made her aware. Bring 3 copies of everything. Stand your ground and don't fall apart. This is no reason for a custody change. The judge shouldn't allow it so long as you have evidence to go with your side. Did you make a mistake? Most likely. But that doesn't warrant anything of this level. At most it warrants a remandment for contempt of court. Its not kidnpping. You haven't been arrested nor is the FBI looking for you.

Get real with yourself and get right.

Please read more carefully if your going to answer questions in the law board. Your post doesnt make sense from the OP's standpoint and there isnt legal advice in it. We try to be as accurate as possible with the information given.

I disagree with you. He asked for an OPINION and I gave it. He can either accept it or not. You are suggesting he follow the letter of the law. I am suggesting he follow the spirit of the law and neither of us is wrong. My suggestion might be a resolve to bring the best interest if the children back into focus. It isn't always about being right, more important it is about having peace between a father and a mother for what is the best interest of the children... pleasant and happy parents. We have not heard the other side here and it is by belief that parents can work out their own parenting plan, after a divorce, if they truly love their children and have their best interest first and foremost in mind.

I disagree with you. He asked for an OPINION and I gave it. He can either accept it or not. You are suggesting he follow the letter of the law. I am suggesting he follow the spirit of the law and neither of us is wrong. My suggestion might be a resolve to bring the best interest if the children back into focus. It isn't always about being right, more important it is about having peace between a father and a mother for what is the best interest of the children...pleasant and happy parents. We have not heard the other side here and it is by belief that parents can work out their own parenting plan, after a divorce, if they truly love their children and have their best interest first and foremost in mind.

I agree that parents can hammer out their own plans. But here is the situation as I see it.

1) The OP had taken the children out of state for a 2 day period.

2) It interfered with a current court order. Parenting plan was already in affect.

3) Ex claims he kidnapped the child (parental kidnapping)

4) Ex gets an exparte motion through the courts which include a temporary restraining order removing the children.


To me that isn't anything to do with the spirit of the law nor good parenting on the mothers part. It is a spiteful move to control the children as the OP was the primary custodial parent.

At this point they need to follow the law as it is written until the hearing. If they don't they can lose custody of the children forever. A restraining order knows no spirit. They are for very strict situations and are not meant to be played around with.

According to the OP, the mother was aware of this pending trip for a while and she had agreed to it. So the OP has nothing to apologize for, If anything, the mother needs to apologize for using this as a ploy to get him back in court. Make sure you read the whole thread.

According to the OP, the mother was aware of this pending trip for a while and she had agreed to it. So the OP has nothing to apologize for, If anything, the mother needs to apologize for using this as a ploy to get him back in court. Make sure you read the whole thread.Yes she knows that I'm taking the kids for the weekend and she knows that I'm taking the kids to Utah I did ask her and remind her 2 months before and a month before I did remind her and couple days before me and the kids went to my Xwife house to ask her again all she said U CAN TAKE THE KIDS BUT IM NOT Going to GIVE YOU ANYMORE MONEY is that count as a yes or no? And do u think the picture from Utah and recipt from the hotel will help to proved that we don't have any intention to kidnap my own children and we came back after 2days and my mom going to testify

How old are the children? Can they testify that the mother knew and agreed? The hotel receipts probably won't help, But a reservation confirmation showing only a 2 day reservation might.

Did you or the children call the mother while away? Those records may also help.

It's going to come down to who agreed to what. Support and visitation are two entirely different things. If the Court finds it reasonable and believable that you AKSED her, REMINDED her, she AGREED, then you are all right.

Of course, the argument against that is if she agreed, why were you charged? Obviously she could have agreed and then lied, said she didn't, to be mean and vindictive - but you would have to prove that.

I don't know that the receipt proves anything other than you spent two days in Utah.

If your mother has first-hand knowledge of your conversations with the children's mother that will be very helpful testimony. If she does not, only knows what you told her, her testimony won't make any difference.

Again - it should have been in writing but it's too late now.

I think you have a good legal argument and you've received very good advice. Just try to remain calm. This is about law and how the law is enforced, not about emotion or what should happen in a perfect World. What do I think? I think the mother took advantage of the situation. Does that opinion matter in the grand scheme of things? No, it does not.

Did you vacate where you lived? Get an affidavits from your landlord or neighbors that you didn't move out. Basically anything to corroborate that you did not move out and/or intended to return will help convince the court that her charges are bogus.

How old are the children? Can they testify that the mother knew and agreed? The hotel receipts probably won't help, But a reservation confirmation showing only a 2 day reservation might.

Did you or the children call the mother while away? Those records may also help. I got 8yrs 6yrs 5yrs and 3yrs I min I got confirmation it's under my mom name bcoz mom is with us when we drop of my brother to Utah

Did you vacate where you lived? Get an affidavits from your landlord or neighbors that you didn't move out. Basically anything to corroborate that you did not move out and/or intended to return will help convince the court that her charges are bogus. no we did not go anywhere

The more you post the better your side of things looks.

If you keep your cool in Court I think you're going to be okay.

When this is all over I think she definitely needs counselling - and the Court might require it - and it would probably help for you to talk to someone to figure out how to keep this estrangement from your children from happening again.

Just be cool!

I agree with Judy. Unfortunately the children (except maybe the 8 yr old) will probably not be able to testify. But if you have the reservation confirmation or anything else that can document that this was just a visit and/or the mother knew about the trip.

As Judy said you need to just keep your cool. I would take the position that you don't understand why this case is necessary.

I did just think about something else. What was the time line here? The mother has weekends so does that mean she picks up or you deliver the children on Friday nights or Saturday mornings? So did she call the police when you either didn't show up or the children were not there to be picked up? I would subpoena her phone records for the weekend. The next question is when did she request the ex parte hearing for temporary custody? Was it first thing Monday morning or later? Did you or the children talk to her at any time either while you were away or before she filed? Were the children in school Monday?

If you can answer those questions we may be able to provide some more tips on strategy and evidence. But the key is convincing the court that a) this was just a visit and b) she knew about it.

I agree with Judy. Unfortunately the children (except maybe the 8 yr old) will probably not be able to testify. But if you have the reservation confirmation or anything else that can document that this was just a visit and/or the mother knew about the trip.

As Judy said you need to just keep your cool. I would take the position that you don't understand why this case is necessary.

I did just think about something else. What was the time line here? The mother has weekends so does that mean she picks up or you deliver the children on Friday nights or Saturday mornings? So did she call the police when you either didn't show up or the children were not there to be picked up? I would subpoena her phone records for the weekend. The next question is when did she request the ex parte hearing for temporary custody? Was it first thing Monday morning or later? Did you or the children talk to her at any time either while you were away or before she filed? Were the children in school Monday?

If you can answer those questions we may be able to provide some more tips on strategy and evidence. But the key is convincing the court that a) this was just a visit and b) she knew about it. since we got a mediation I got the kids most of the time and she got the kids on the weekend I drop the kids off Friday 7:30pm then I'm going to pick them up 7:30pm Sunday... coz her attorney called me Friday may 4 2012 around 10:48am he just said... How come you did not bring the kids that weekend you better bring it or else I'm going to take you to court Monday I was OK... and my ex got the kids that weekend then Monday around 5pm my ex and her sister came to my mom house and give me a paper that they got authorized to take the kids . I did not know when her attorney called me that's the notice already that I need to go to court so I don't have the time to react... then I hire an attorney then we did the exparte notice to them then my attorney ask for early court date or something so we got a court Thursday may 24 2012 and the judge told us that may be I believe may be not may be I'm wrong may be I'm not and my attorney said asking if the court an reinstate the custody on me and the judge said no I'm not going to make any decision bcoz this is not an emergency and all that and you guys need to wait until the 30th of this month may be bcoz there's an allegation that I'm going to take the kids away from there mom that's y may be the judge did not make any decision... that's why I'm going to bring my mom with me to testify and bring the confirmation from the hotel and some document for our purpose to go Utah,picture to proved that there's no intention of staying there and taking the kids away from there mom

Thanks for the info, but its not clear. If the attorney called you on Friday May 4 at 10:48AM what weekend was he asking about? If he was asking about the weekend you were in Utah wasn't that weekend already past at that time? It doesn't make sense for him to call Friday morning when you weren't due to bring them until that evening. If he was calling about the previous weekend, did you tell him that you had asked the mother about taking the children for that weekend and she had agreed?

You need to have your story down pat here. That's part of why I'm asking the details so you can be clear to the judge. Now if the lawyer didn't call until the Friday AFTER you returned from Utah, there there appears to have been no real concern about abduction. And, in fact, if the attorney filed claiming abduction AFTER you had returned, that could be considered a frivolous suit. So we need to get your time line down pat. So take your time get your facts straight and let us know what they are so we can advise further.

The explanation confuses me more than the original story. Punctuation would probably be helpful.

Meanwhile - I'd get your story down and stick to it. It seems that every time I look at this thread something has changed, is different.

I don't understand that you get the "kids" "most of the time" and your ex gets them weekends. That is hardly legal language and it would appear to cause more problems than it solves.

What am I missing?

The explanation confuses me more than the original story. Punctuation would probably be helpful.

Meanwhile - I'd get your story down and stick to it. It seems that every time I look at this thread something has changed, is different.

I don't understand that you get the "kids" "most of the time" and your ex gets them weekends. That is hardly legal language and it would appear to cause more problems than it solves.

What am I missing?

The original custody order appears to have been the OP as custodial parent. Now that an accusation has come forth (parental kidnapping) and exparte motion was granted the children were taken away and now there is this mess to deal with.

Hope that clears it up.

thanks for the info, but its not clear. If the attorney called you on Friday May 4 at 10:48AM what weekend was he asking about? If he was asking about the weekend you were in Utah wasn't that weekend already past at that time? It doesn't make sense for him to call Friday morning when you weren't due to bring them until that evening. If he was calling about the previous weekend, did you tell him that you had asked the mother about taking the children for that weekend and she had agreed?

you need to have your story down pat here. that's part of why I'm asking the details so you can be clear to the judge. Now if the lawyer didn't call until the Friday AFTER you returned from Utah, there there appears to have been no real concern about abduction. And, in fact, if the attorney filed claiming abduction AFTER you had returned, that could be considered a frivolous suit. So we need to get your time line down pat. So take your time get your facts straight and let us know what they are so we can advise further. he's asking me how come you did not bring the kids that weekend... I did know that's the notice that we got a court date on the 7th next thing I know they got a paper from the court and sign by the judge... that they thought I want to move to Utah and transfer them to another school that's y they took the kids away from my mom house and take them away from me... this what I was said to my ex... I'm going to take the kids for the weekend and I'm going to take the kids to Utah and I'm going to transfer them to another school... I did not say anything about staying and never come back to California now I have to proved that and show some document and some picture the reason why we go to Utah and now I have to wait for the judge what he going to say...

he's asking me how come u did not bring the kids that weekend...I did know that's the notice that we got a court date on the 7th next thing I know they got a paper from the court and sign by the judge...that they thought I want to move to utah and transfer them to another school that's y they took the kids away from my mom house and take them away from me...this what I was said to my ex...I'm gonna take the kids for the weekend and I'm gonna take the kids to Utah and I'm gonna transfer them to another school... I did not say anything about staying and never come back to California now I have to proved that and show some document and some picture the reason why we go to Utah and now I have to wait for the judge what he gonna say.....

I'm trying to help you out here but you aren't answering my questions clearly. I'm still not clear whether the attorney was asking about the Utah weekend or the coming weekend, "that weekend" could refer to either.

What did you mean by the bolded section? Did you specify where the school would be? I can understand them thinking this meant a school in Utah.

And this is typical of what you have posted here. You say things without fully clarifying, that people can interpret different ways. You have to answer questions fully and completely. So when I asked if the attorney was referring to the Utah weekend or the coming weekend, you answer "the attorney was referring to the Utah weekend". This makes it clear. You have to learn to do this especially in court. Again lets look at the bolded quote above.If you said, I'm looking into changing schools when I return, you may have avoided these problems.

So, once again, lets get the timeline down. You went to Utah, when? Was it before the May 4 call? Did you bring the children to the mother for the May 4-6 weekend? Did the lawyer file on the 7th or did you have a court date on the 7th? If the lawyer didn't file on the 7th when did he file? Please provide specific, complete answers.

I'm trying to help you out here but you aren't answering my questions clearly. I'm still not clear whether the attorney was asking about the Utah weekend or the coming weekend, "that weekend" could refer to either.

What did you mean by the bolded section? Did you specify where the school would be? I can understand them thinking this meant a school in Utah.

And this is typical of what you have posted here. You say things without fully clarifying, that people can interpret different ways. You have to answer questions fully and completely. So when I asked if the attorney was referring to the Utah weekend or the coming weekend, you answer "the attorney was referring to the Utah weekend". This makes it clear. You have to learn to do this especially in court. Again lets look at the bolded quote above.If you said, I'm looking into changing schools when I return, you may have avoided these problems.

So, once again, lets get the timeline down. You went to Utah, when? Was it before the May 4 call? Did you bring the children to the mother for the May 4-6 weekend? Did the lawyer file on the 7th or did you have a court date on the 7th? If the lawyer didn't file on the 7th when did he file? Please provide specific, complete answers. we went to Utah April 30, 2012... Yes before May 4 call... and yes she got the kids that weekend... I don't know when did he file it... yes I have a court date on the 7th BUT I did know that I do have a court date that day bcoz I never receive anything from the mail or any notice and I just found out later that day around 5pm when they took my kids away from me... when my ex attorney called me about how come I did not bring the kids on her weekend.. I was like yes I did.. And he was like oh u better bring the kids or else I'm going to take you to court.. I did not know that's a notice already... then I hire an attorney we did the ex-prte notice and we went to court May 24, 2012 at Compton court and my attorney told the judge there's no harm done with the kids and all that can the court re-instate the custody to the father and the other attorney said he took the kids kids to Utah and plan to stay there and the respondent using the kids to get money like extortion and the judge was like I'm not going to do anything right now bcoz this is not even an emergency the judge said may I believe you may be not may be I'm wrong may be not and the petitioner claiming this and the respondent claiming this so I'm not going to do anything at this point. That what the judge said... yeah so what do u think bcoz I did not say anything about moving to Utah and transferring them to another school may be they mis interpret

[QUOTE=Evo630hp;3131939]we went to Utah April 30, 2012... Yes before May 4 call... and yes she got the kids that weekend... I don't know when did he file it... yes I have a court date on the 7th BUT I did know that I do have a court date that day bcoz I never receive anything from the mail or any notice and I just found out later that day around 5pm when they took my kids away from me... when my ex attorney called me about how come I did not bring the kids on her weekend.. I was like yes I did.. And he was like oh you better bring the kids or else I'm going to take you to court.. I did not know that's a notice already... then I hire an attorney we did the ex-prte notice and we went to court May 24, 2012 at Compton court and my attorney told the judge there's no harm done with the kids and all that can the court re-instate the custody to the father and the other attorney said he took the kids kids to Utah and plan to stay there and the respondent using the kids to get money like extortion and the judge was like I'm not going to do anything right now bcoz this is not even an emergency the judge said may I believe you may be not may be I'm wrong may be not and the petitioner claiming this and the respondent claiming this so I'm not going to do anything at this point. That what the judge said... yeah so what do you think bcoz I did not say anything about moving to Utah and transferring them to another school may be they mis interpret me by saying that... on your opinion what's the best thing to say or do because me and my mom going to go to my attorney tomorrow and give the document from our church ,picture and confirmation from the hotel that we stay and tell them the reason and pUrpose of why we went to Utah..

Ok, Evo, this is much better and I think I understand more now. I think the reason the judge said what he said was because it was totally a he said/she said at that point. So he continued it to the scheduled hearing date so both parties could produce corroborative evidence.

So now you need to get documentary and testatory evidence to back up what you said. The reservation confirmation is one thing. You didn't answer about calls while you were away. And it may not be enough time to get phone records now. But you can tell the judge if there were any. The date her attorney filed may help with the timeline.

Did you start searching for another school? Did you contact any schools? If you did and can prove the contact, that might help. I'm hoping you get the idea. If you hired an attorney talk to them about what evidence you need. But keep the story that you just posted in your mind, make sure you tell it just like that with full clarifications. Add that you had asked the mother to keep the children that weekend. That you had fully explained to her why and that she had said it was OK.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Ok, Evo, this is much better and I think I understand more now. I think the reason the judge said what he said was because it was totally a he said/she said at that point. So he continued it to the scheduled hearing date so both parties could produce corroborative evidence.

So now you need to get documentary and testatory evidence to back up what you said. The reservation confirmation is one thing. You didn't answer about calls while you were away. And it may not be enough time to get phone records now. But you can tell the judge if there were any. The date her attorney filed may help with the timeline.

Did you start searching for another school? Did you contact any schools? If you did and can prove the contact, that might help. I'm hoping you get the idea. If you hired an attorney talk to them about what evidence you need. But keep the story that you just posted in your mind, make sure you tell it just like that with full clarifications. Add in that you had asked the mother to keep the children that weekend. That you had fully explained to her why and that she had said it was OK.

Good luck and keep us posted. no I did not search any school and yes I'm going to keep what I said bcoz that's the one I wrote and my attorney give my complain to the judge and what if my ex just said " u can take the kids but I'm not gonna give you money" do that one count as a yes or no? Coz that's the only thing my ex said... and my attorney said we have to prove that she only did not see the kids only one weekend 27,28,29 bcoz she claiming that she did not see the kids for 3 weeks now what she said is a lie that's y my mom going to be there to testify that she only did not see the kids only one weekend and my mom going to show the picture and document of our purpose why me and our whole family went to Utah... u think some of the document and some picture and my mom testimony will help me?. the reason why this happen she complaining everything that I'm using the kids for money I took the kids to Utah I attempt to kidnap the kids and she denying everything that she doesn't know about anything about the trip.

my attorney said we have to prove that she only did not see the kids only one weekend 27,28,29 bcoz she claiming that she did not see the kids for 3 weeks now .

That's actually good for you. If you can prove the children were with her for other weekends, it will severely damage her credibility.

Yes, what she said constitutes an agreement. But in the future, get it in writing.

Not sure if this is the place but, Scott, you've done some great work here. Really great work!

I know you neither want nor need the applause, but...

That's actually good for you. If you can prove the children were with her for other weekends, it will severely damage her credibility.

Yes, what she said constitutes an agreement. But in the future, get it in writing. OK Scott I'll keep you posted thank you for the advice... and I do really appreciate everything tank for the help