I have to admit that I'm pretty uptight right now after seeing recent posts in which an asker was badgered for asking their question about their ability to see ghosts. Actually, I'm more than uptight but I'm going to stay professional.

My question is... why on earth is there a paranormal category where askers can ask questions about the paranormal and then get hammered when asking about it? Is there anyone on this board who believes in ghosts or are we all so closed-minded that we can't conceive that it is possible?

This is the EXACT reason that I don't speak of this topic much. When people tell you that they have seen ghosts or demons or speak to them or hear them or feel them, at least give them decency and respect and understand that even if it is not a reality for you, it certainly is for them.

Peace...

What posts are you talking about? Most that answer here are sympathetic to paranormal. Im not understanding what your complaint is about.

What posts are you talking about? Most that answer here are sympathetic to paranormal. Im not understanding what your complaint is about.
It's done now. The thread closed.

That's over now. The thread closed.

You had seem to refer to something that I don't feel exists here. So if you find any let us know.

You had seem to refer to something that I dont feel exists here. So if you find any let us know.

This one:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/paranormal-phenomena/seeing-ghosts-what-think-663666.html

I was in that thread and don't recall "hammering" the poster. I was curious as to what she thought her role was in helping ghosts "find the light" and finally get to God. Hauntinghelper (who is very sympathetic to paranoramal incidents) and I agreed that whatever as gong on with her was not a gift and that she didn't need to get herself all worked up over it. I was worried about what this activity was doing to her psyche.

I was in that thread and don't recall "hammering" the poster. I was curious as to what she thought her role was in helping ghosts "find the light" and finally get to God. Hauntinghelper (who is very sympathetic to paranoramal incidents) and I agreed that whatever as gong on with her was not a gift and that she didn't need to get herself all worked up over it. I was worried about what this activity was doing to her psyche.
I'm not going to re-hash the thread, delve into semantics, nor play a blame game, because it will probably just get this one closed. For the record though, just because you agreed with someone about the non-validity of the poster's situation, doesn't make it non-valid for the poster, nor does it mean that respect is not due to the poster. An example was asked and I gave it.

Back to my question - do you believe in this phenomena? If you don't believe in it, why don't you? What keeps you from believing it? If you believe in it, why?

Peace...

I can't see ghosts but have had enough weird things happen to me that my motto is "anything's possible." Yet, it flies in the face of Christianity and what I have been taught all these many years.

HH had said ghosts reveal themselves to a person; it's not a gift for that person to be able to see them. During the week after my dad died, my mom saw him several times. Did she really? Or was she just lost in a fog of missing him? Does she have a gift? (She's never ever seen another deceased person.) Was this a gift from God to allow her to see her husband a few more times? I don't know.

I can only speak for myself (but I know WG is open to paranormal experiences as well)...

I might turn the question around and say there isn't much I DON'T believe is possible in the spirit world. However, that does not mean everything is all well and good. Nobody was "hammered" in the thread and I wouldn't even say she was not taken seriously. But believing somebody and encouraging them are two different things. I believe wondergirl was simply trying to get this girl to take a step back and look at the situation. Having 11 year old girls ecouraged to help spirits cross would be a little irresponsible on our part. We don't know her parents beliefs or even if they knew she was on the internet.

I think for the most part those that contribute on the paranormal forum take the OPs posts seriously. Every now and again you get the know-it-all preteens and others who you know not to take seriously.

I can't see ghosts but have had enough weird things happen to me that my motto is "anything's possible." Yet, it flies in the face of Christianity and what I have been taught all these many years.

Of course it flies in the face of Christianity and what you've been taught. That applies to me as well. But my experience of these things are very real to me, whether people believe it is objectively "real".


HH had said ghosts reveal themselves to a person; it's not a gift for that person to be able to see them. During the week after my dad died, my mom saw him several times. Did she really? Or was she just lost in a fog of missing him? Does she have a gift? (She's never ever seen another deceased person.) Was this a gift from God to allow her to see her husband a few more times? I don't know.
That's your opinion that it's not a gift. I didn't even have an opportunity to tell her what my opinion was. This kid (who I remind you is ELEVEN) will do more for the Kingdom of God than you realize or understand. And I just pray to GOD that she doesn't take the advice she was given. I would mentor this precious child, help her understand what she is seeing and lead her gently where she needs to go. Is it a gift? I don't know that it's a "gift" but in my reality, it is something that God uses to accomplish His work.

Let me say this... once upon a time I was raised devout Southern Baptist. However, I grew up and at the age of 30, I began to study Buddhism. I practiced Buddhism for four years, didn't believe in God anymore or spirit beings or faeries or anything. Then one day... I had a demon speak to me from a human being's mouth. As time went on, not only demons, but human spirits began to speak. I don't have time or space to give you details (you can find that on my blog).

I know where you are coming from. I know what it's like. I've been there. No matter what I do in my life from here on out, I can tell you without reservation, that the work I do and have done with spirits will far surpass my other earthly accomplishments. I can honestly go before the God of this universe, bow my head and say that I've done my best to bring people to Him. You don't understand... you just don't understand what's been done now. You don't understand the repercussions.

Peace...

I can only speak for myself (but I know WG is open to paranormal experiences as well)...

I might turn the question around and say there isn't much I DON'T believe is possible in the spirit world. However, that does not mean everything is all well and good. Nobody was "hammered" in the thread and I wouldn't even say she was not taken seriously. But believing somebody and encouraging them are two different things. I believe wondergirl was simply trying to get this girl to take a step back and look at the situation. Having 11 year old girls ecouraged to help spirits cross would be a little irresponsible on our part. We don't know her parents beliefs or even if they knew she was on the internet.

I think for the most part those that contribute on the paranormal forum take the OPs posts seriously. Every now and again you get the know-it-all preteens and others who you know not to take seriously.
I agree that the parents need to know their child is asking about these things on the internet and that the child needs to be dealing with her parents on this, but for the love of God, it's irresponsible in my opinion to question an eleven year old on the validity of what she believes she is doing for God. You know what... I don't want to talk about her anymore. I want to talk about the issues at hand. I want people to answer the questions I put forth because it lies at the very heart of what that little girl is going through.

Peace...

With all due respect, I do understand what was done... we did not encourage an 11 year old girl to seek after dabbling in the spirit world.

As wondergirl rightly brought up, what exactly is this girl doing FOR God? How is she helping anybody... especially the all-mighty God of the universe?

If she were leading living souls towards salvation and bringing Jesus Christ into people's lives... HEY, have at it kid... but that was not the subject at all. As I've said before, there is a reason the Word of God tells us to TEST spirits... because they are liars and deceptive.

for the love of God, it's irresponsible in my opinion to question an eleven year old on the validity of what she believes she is doing for God.
If you stick around here for a while, you will discover that the ages of 11-14 are prime time to be a pest/troll on an Internet site. They are especially active during school holidays and summertime. As a moderator, I'm part of a team that is very watchful of such users who tend to suck the energy out of various boards and discourage legitimate questions. My mod colleagues get quite impatient with me at times for wanting to give a (young) person the benefit of the doubt when they don't think there is any doubt at all. Thus my questioning of her, to try to find out what she was all about.

I don't want to talk about her anymore. I want to talk about the issues at hand. I want people to answer the questions I put forth because it lies at the very heart of what that little girl is going through.

Peace...


Here is the thing. Most of us that regularly answer questions on this board do believe in the paranormal at some level. But as you would expect from a room full of people we all have a different approach. In your eyes (as an adult) a door closing by itself isn't a ghost until otherwise known. To a child of 11 it can most certainly be a ghost that did it.

Sometimes getting to the root of the belief lends itself to the answer. As in your own path you have sought answers and have a belief system. Others here have their own systems and practices. That's what makes this place a great place to ask questions.

Now Im going to ask you a question: We have a section called "member discussions" would you like this thread moved there or would you prefer it stays here under paranormal ?

With all due respect, I do understand what was done... we did not encourage an 11 year old girl to seek after dabbling in the spirit world.

Led correctly, she will do great things for God... leading wayward souls to God.


As wondergirl rightly brought up, what exactly is this girl doing FOR God? How is she helping anybody... especially the all-mighty God of the universe?

We are the hands and feet of all-mighty God. He uses us to accomplish His will on this earth. What is she doing for God? Something that most people can't do... speak to the dead and help them leave this earth that they are imprisoned on.


If she were leading living souls towards salvation and bringing Jesus Christ into people's lives... HEY, have at it kid... but that was not the subject at all. As I've said before, there is a reason the Word of God tells us to TEST spirits... because they are liars and deceptive.
Living souls? What about the "dead souls"? Who is going to help them? That's the point... the ability to see and/or speak to human souls who are still trapped on this earth give us the opportunity to help them leave their baggage behind and move into God's presence. This flies in the face (as WG put it) of mainstream Christianity and doctrines that are taught in church. The physical universe is simply a mirror of the underlying spiritual universe that God created whether early or modern Christians believe it or understand it.

Not all spirits are liars. They are just like living human beings - they have the capacity to be truthful or dishonest, to be angry or not to be angry. They still have choice. The Holy Bible is powerful and inspired by God. It was not written by God. The only thing written by God was the Decalogue. I do not worship a collection of books. I worship the God who inspired them.

Peace...

It's irresponsible to question an 11 year old girl? In certain subjects, the paranormal being one of them, it would be irresponsble NOT to question her about these things. We are not her parents, as we all know, but there are those here who do their best to offer not only accurate advice, but responsible advice as well.

I don't doubt at all what she is going through and young people dealing with this are at the very heart of why I want to help in this area... but she does not yet understand how the spirit world functions. In my opinion, telling her not only to continue in contact with these spirits but also to further develop this, would be like throwing her to the wolves.

Living souls? What about the "dead souls"? Who is going to help them?
An 11-year-old girl who really doesn't seem to understand who she is and what she is supposed to do?

I vote for moving this thread to Member Discussions, or it's going to get shut down.

Here is the thing. Most of us that regularly answer questions on this board do believe in the paranormal at some level. But as you would expect from a room full of people we all have a different approach. In your eyes (as an adult) a door closing by itself isn't a ghost until otherwise known. To a child of 11 it can most certainly be a ghost that did it.

I understand. But, based on what she said... I believe she was telling the truth.


Sometimes getting to the root of the belief lends itself to the answer. As in your own path you have sought answers and have a belief system. Others here have their own systems and practices. That's what makes this place a great place to ask questions.

Yes, I absolutely agree. I value other people's viewpoints and belief systems. Heck, I've "owned" a few of them :) I'm very passionate about this topic and perhaps too passionate. I promise I'll try to be a good boy :)


Now Im going to ask you a question: We have a section called "member discussions" would you like this thread moved there or would you prefer it stays here under paranormal ?
Whichever you think is appropriate. And for the record, thank you for your tactful approach.

Peace...

An 11-year-old girl who really doesn't seem to understand who she is and what she is supposed to do?

I vote for moving this thread to Member Discussions, or it's going to get shut down.
You underestimate the ability of God to lead a simple child to accomplish the task He set before them. She doesn't understand yet who she is, and she certainly won't if she takes some of the advice given to her.

Peace...

You underestimate the ability of God to lead a simple child to accomplish the task He set before them. She doesn't understand yet who she is, and she certainly won't if she takes some of the advice given to her.
No, I don't underestimate anyone's ability to accomplish God's will. But like someone said a few posts ago, encouraging an immature and clueless 11-year-old would be like throwing her to the wolves. She herself said she had no idea what to do and how to do it.

It's irresponsible to question an 11 year old girl? In certain subjects, the paranormal being one of them, it would be irresponsble NOT to question her about these things. We are not her parents, as we all know, but there are those here who do their best to offer not only accurate advice, but responsible advice as well.

If she is not in communication with her parents about this issue then that is a major problem. And, had I been given a chance to share that with her, I would have done so. I completely know and trust that in your heart and in WG's heart, you are giving the advice that you believe is appropriate and correct. I don't doubt that at all. My sorrow comes from not being able to tell her the things she needed to hear. My soul is grieved... you have no idea.


I don't doubt at all what she is going through and young people dealing with this are at the very heart of why I want to help in this area... but she does not yet understand how the spirit world functions. In my opinion, telling her not only to continue in contact with these spirits but also to further develop this, would be like throwing her to the wolves.
Of course... she doesn't understand how it works and that's why you and me are here, at this God-given moment discussing this issue. She wasn't calling up spirits. They were coming to her, as they come to me. It's not her fault. She didn't seem to go after them. It's the other way around. My point is that given direction, this child will banish demons and help so many souls.

Peace...

She wasn't calling up spirits. They were coming to her
Or was she even telling the truth -- and just has an very active imagination, as many 11-year-olds have? That's what I was trying to find out. My allegiance is to this site and its integrity, not to a young girl whom I do not know, have never encountered before this, and who may or may not be a troll with time on her hands and a computer in front of her.

Or was she even telling the truth -- and just has an very active imagination, as many 11-year-olds have? That's what I was trying to find out. My allegiance is to this site and its integrity, not to a young girl whom I do not know, have never encountered before this, and who may or may not be a troll with time on her hands and a computer in front of her.
I respect you and your belief.

Peace...

Tell you what... with moderators' permission... I would be willing to answer any question you have about my view of the spiritual world. Use me as test subject. Think of me as an alien that just landed from the other side of normal. I will only give you my experiential views. I will not appeal to Scripture. I will not appeal to a church authority. And I can tell you that it is only my view. Only God knows the ultimate truth anyway.

So... moderators... it's up to you.

Peace...

Ah. The freedom of the discussion boards :)

This board is open to anyone. And religion can enter the discussion now that It has been moved to a discussion board. Have at it!

OK mystic... what is your view and experiences with the spirit world?

OK mystic...what is your view and experiences with the spirit world?

That's a bit broad. Think of this like an interrogation. Ask a question and I'll tell you what my experience is.

When did you first realize you had a connection to the spirit world?

When did you first realize you had a connection to the spirit world?
My connection is not like that of a medium or psychic. It's a bit complicated. Put simply... spiritual beings have found me through using other living human beings. When in an altered state of mind, whether induced by me or done spontaneously, both departed human spirits, evil spirits and fallen angels have spoken to me and me to them. This all began about 4 years ago.

Ok, more specifically then... by your experiences and beliefs... where does God fall into the whole spiritual mix of things... and where does your idea of God come from?

Ok, more specifically then....by your experiences and beliefs...where does God fall into the whole spiritual mix of things...and where does your idea of God come from?
God is the Creator. He loves the life He created and therefore is always at work with that life, whether that life is encased in a form body or formless body. He balances the equations in the universe. Where there is lowliness.. he exalts. Where there is height... he tears down. You get the picture.

My idea about God comes from my direct experience with Him and the life that He created whether it is angelic, human or something else. He and I have had some rough times over the past several years but I have come to terms with my experiences. I have accepted the fact that things are the way they are for reasons I still don't completely understand. At the end of the day, I have to trust Him.

I have to admit that I'm pretty uptight right now after seeing recent posts in which an asker was badgered for asking their question about their ability to see ghosts. Actually, I'm more than uptight but I'm going to stay professional.

My question is....why on earth is there a paranormal category where askers can ask questions about the paranormal and then get hammered when asking about it? Is there anyone on this board who believes in ghosts or are we all so closed-minded that we can't conceive that it is possible?

This is the EXACT reason that I don't speak of this topic much. When people tell you that they have seen ghosts or demons or speak to them or hear them or feel them, at least give them decency and respect and understand that even if it is not a reality for you, it certainly is for them.

Peace...

I believe in ghosts. Always have. Everything is possible in this strange, wonderful and beautiful life we live.

I believe in ghosts. Always have. Everything is possible in this strange, wonderful and beautiful life we live.
Yes... it certainly is all those things and more.

Mystic - your response was, for the most part, a very biblical one. Where then does the Bible fit in to the puzzle?

Mystic - your response was, for the most part, a very biblical one. Where then does the Bible fit in to the puzzle?
At the age of 30, I shed all belief in the supernatural, God, the Bible... everything. In fact, at the time these things began to happen, I was a practicing Chan/Pure Land Buddhist. So, you can imagine my dilemma. I didn't go back to where I left off before 30. I started over from ground zero. I learned that some of what I was taught as a child was true, but some of it was not.

Scripture has to be put into perspective here. It is a guide. It was inspired by God and is powerful against the forces of darkness, being full of light. It does not, nor was it designed to be, the object of our affection or contain ultimate truth - God Himself being the ultimate source with direct experience being the only true path to reach Him. Put it this way, if Scripture does not match my direct experience or vice-versa, I rely on my direct experience to guide me. That's why I consider myself a mystic. :)

Peace...

Does anyone mind if I jump in here?
This is a subject that has always interested me but one that I have not understood,
Hence, the interest I think.
I've read many of the paranormal posts out of curiosity and get the underlying gist (I think) that spirits or entities manifest themselves to the living if they are for some reason open to it?
What opens them to it? Is it that they are dabbling in things that they shouldn't or are some simply predisposed by way of keeping an open mind?
Being raised by a devoutly Christian mother and being in church A LOT, I witnessed once as a child a church member being "rid" if you will, of what the pastor referred to as a "spirit of oppression" I distinctly remember the change in this mans' face and most noticeably his eyes afterward.
So naturally I do believe in these things, but have never experienced them personally.
Unless you count that after the death of my beloved Pa (granddad) I awoke one night to his voice telling me "all was well" (I was 8 months pregnant when he passed)
I chalked it up to me missing him so badly and dismissed it.
But from some postings I'm gathering that it could have been any number of "beings" simply using my sadness as a doorway?
I'm glad you guys are having this discussion and sorry to interrupt I'm looking forward to following this thread and maybe gain a little more understanding.

Nope, don't believe in paranormal phenomena.

Nope, don't believe in paranormal phenomena.

Not trying to argue by any means, but, none, not on any level?
That's precisely the reason I'm reading this-different views.
I've never delved into or dabbled in it.
Why do you not believe?
Again no argument here, just curious as to your opinion.

Nope. It seems it's only the religious that gets these "visits" so I'm likely to believe that it's related to their faith.

Does anyone mind if I jump in here?
This is a subject that has always interested me but one that I have not understood,
Hence, the interest I think.
I've read many of the paranormal posts out of curiosity and get the underlying gist (I think) that spirits or entities manifest themselves to the living if they are for some reason open to it?
What opens them to it? Is it that they are dabbling in things that they shouldn't or are some simply predisposed by way of keeping an open mind?
Being raised by a devoutly Christian mother and being in church A LOT, I witnessed once as a child a church member being "rid" if you will, of what the pastor referred to as a "spirit of oppression" I distinctly remember the change in this mans' face and most noticeably his eyes afterward.
So naturally I do believe in these things, but have never experienced them personally.
Unless you count that after the death of my beloved Pa (granddad) I awoke one night to his voice telling me "all was well" (I was 8 months pregnant when he passed)
I chalked it up to me missing him so badly and dismissed it.
But from some postings I'm gathering that it could have been any number of "beings" simply using my sadness as a doorway?
I'm glad you guys are having this discussion and sorry to interrupt I'm looking forward to following this thread and maybe gain a little more understanding.

It's a good question and there's no cookie-cutter answer that fits every person's situation. From what I have seen, it can be one or more of the following:

1. Occult involvement of the individual or their ancestors
2. Extreme emotional or behavioral problems where the person unintentionally attracts spiritual beings
3. Simply having an open mind to such beings (as in a child who has not lost their imagination or openness to the world around them).
4. Spontaneous manifestations that serve a purpose for either the living or the dead in God's infinite wisdom.

As we get older, we begin to lose our beliefs in Santa, the Easter bunny, etc. Our minds begin to close as intellectual complexities infiltrate and take over our simplicity. Children who can see into the spiritual world are told that their imaginary friend isn't real, Santa isn't real, etc. and eventually they will indeed lose this ability. However, if they are guided, taught and supported, they will continue to experience these things yethave the ability to control what happens to them.

This list primarily deals with the recipient of manifestations not the initiator. That's a different scenario.

Peace

Religion will affect how you view the paranormal... but not whether you experience it or not. I know of people from just about every religious and non religious background who have had spirit encounters.

Ladysam - glad to have you in the discussion!

You'll find these situations in the Word of God.. it's just not preached in the mainstream. In fact, I'd say the majority of pastors still do not understand this issue as they should. There is a spirit of oppression... I have dealt with it first hand and it IS subject to the authority of Jesus Christ.

Religion will affect how you view the paranormal....but not whether you experience it or not. I know of people from just about every religious and non religious background who have had spirit encounters.
Whereas I know of none, and my friends (real life not internet) are both religious and non-religious. Weird eh?

Ladysam - glad to have you in the discussion!

You'll find these situations in the Word of God..it's just not preached in the mainstream. Infact, I'd say the majority of pastors still do not understand this issue as they should. There is a spirit of oppression...I have dealt with it first hand and it IS subject to the authority of Jesus Christ.
Seminaries don't adequately prepare ministers because the schools themselves don't understand. I absolutely agree with you. Whether anyone agrees or not, the only institution that remotely understands the spirit world is the Catholic Church.

Peace...

May I add a laugh?
I was about 6 at the time and thought the pastor said "spirit of a possum" which my mother quickly corrected me on after her giggle.
Raised as a Church of God Holiness by the way.
I haven't been to church in years, but I do remember this particular pastor didn't center on this subject, however it was included in the sermon quite often.

But how do explain when children see or hear things?
I know of one such story and I don't think my co-worker was pulling our leg.
I get the idea of the child's mind being innocent and open, but what protects the child from being influenced or "approached" by evil rather than good. The parents relationship with God, God's grace?
Mind you I'm just asking questions here, I still don't know exactly how I feel about the subject as a whole. But this has always intrigued me and I got to admit when I heard my Pa's voice my hand was on the door, but I wouldn't turn the knob.
Mostly because of that influence from the church and my Mom not to give in to the temptation of what was unknown to me.
I guess I'm saying that many things are possible and we may never understand them.
But my logical mind says that life is for the living and the dead should not enter into it any further then being a memory.

Whereas I know of none, and my friends (real life not internet) are both religious and non-religious. Weird eh?
That's because statistically speaking... it is a relatively rare phenomenon.

That's because statistically speaking... it is a relatively rare phenomenon.I guess not if you're in the "business" of it like haunting helper.

May I add a laugh?
I was about 6 at the time and thought the pastor said "spirit of a possum" which my mother quickly corrected me on after her giggle.
Raised as a Church of God Holiness by the way.
I haven't been to church in years, but I do remember this particular pastor didn't center on this subject, however it was included in the sermon quite often.

But how do explain when children see or hear things?
I know of one such story and I don't think my co-worker was pulling our leg.
I get the idea of the child's mind being innocent and open, but what protects the child from being influenced or "approached" by evil rather than good. The parents relationship with God, God's grace?
Mind you I'm just asking questions here, I still don't know exactly how I feel about the subject as a whole. But this has always intrigued me and I gotta admit when I heard my Pa's voice my hand was on the door, but I wouldn't turn the knob.
Mostly because of that influence from the church and my Mom not to give in to the temptation of what was unknown to me.
I guess I'm saying that many things are possible and we may never understand them.
But my logical mind says that life is for the living and the dead should not enter into it any further then being a memory.
Fear is the greatest enemy for children. Darkness uses the fear in our minds to oppress us. They should be taught about God and the power of the Lord Jesus. They should know that there is no spirit who is outside of God's control. If the child understands who they are as a human and who Jesus is as the ultimate warrior against darkness, they can live free of the fear which binds them.

Peace...

I guess not if you're in the "business" of it like haunting helper.
That doesn't even make sense. As a whole, the minority of the general population experience paranormal phenomena.

That doesn't even make sense. As a whole, the minority of the general population experience paranormal phenomena.Hey I agree with you! But I am also told that's it's not that rare: Exposing the Enemy (http://www.hauntinghelper.blogspot.ca/)

Which I find odd because I haven't come across anyone and I'm a pretty social guy.

Hey I agree with you! But I am also told that's it's not that rare: Exposing the Enemy (http://www.hauntinghelper.blogspot.ca/)

Which I find odd because I haven't come across anyone and I'm a pretty social guy.
I think I know you :) You know that HH and I are on the same team. We both work for the same glorious Master. You do realize that this won't work, don't you? One of the greatest lies is that certain elements of the spiritual world do not exist. After all, if those things are believed to not exist, it makes it easier to subvert and infiltrate... doesn't it? :)

I'm not in the "buisness" of anything... however, I am willing to put myself out there to help others.

I don't run with a certain crowd and by that I mean I don't hang around with anyone who is affiliated with or cares about the paranormal... of course I AM interested in the paranormal so I do ask those I know if they have ever had any experiences. The people that can give me a trustworthy account of something spiritual FAR outweigh the ones who cannot.

By posting my link I at least want to put what was said in context. Many people have an encounter and simply don't wish to talk about it... and sometimes people feel as if they are the only ones going through a haunting or demonic attack... I didn't mean that this type of situation happens to everyone all the time... buy from my experience it certainly isn't rare. I have found it to be quite easy to come across somebody who has dealt with a spiritual situation.

Mystic - props on starting this post by the way!

You made the comment about the Catholic church having a deeper understanding of spiritual/demonic matters than most other denominations. How so?

A lot of times in my posts I will mention that help does not need to come specfically from the Catholic church, or any other denomination... only to give the OPs a larger pool of help. I am not anti-Catholic... just trying to free people from a set mentality.

Well I'm just offering my response to the OP's question "Do you believe in paranormal phenomena". You're right though - I don't believe in any satan figure, I believe that I'm responsible for my own actions. Worked out quite well for me so far.

HH, we sometimes share the same goal: "just trying to free people from a set mentality". :D

Cheers.

And I do see the flipside of that, Karma. There are many people out there that look first to the paranormal without looking at any other explanation... many times that mentality needs to be broken as well.

We are all responsible for our own actions... and those that blame everything on Satan are mistaken. Don't think Christianity is simply laying all the blame on the Devil.

I'm not in the "buisness" of anything....however, I am willing to put myself out there to help others.

I don't run with a certain crowd and by that I mean I don't hang around with anyone who is affiliated with or cares about the paranormal...of course I AM interested in the paranormal so I do ask those I know if they have ever had any experiences. The people that can give me a trustworthy account of something spiritual FAR outweigh the ones who cannot.

By posting my link I at least want to put what was said in context. Many people have an encounter and simply don't wish to talk about it....and sometimes people feel as if they are the only ones going through a haunting or demonic attack...I didn't mean that this type of situation happens to everyone all the time...buy from my experience it certainly isn't rare. I have found it to be quite easy to come across somebody who has dealt with a spiritual situation.

I will say this. I have been here since the beginning of when HH started posting in paranormal and I have seen him evolve over time. You can't fit anyone in a box and he has become a regular around the paranormal threads and has many good posts.

As for my own belief in paranormal. I believe its out there. There are many things seen and unseen. But also Im the skeptic of the board in that I tend to approach claims more out of logic then just based on my own beliefs. There are too many that run out of control because they think something is going on when there is a logical explination that can be found.

It doesn't remove from the experience that person is having its just a matter of looking at it a different way to bring about another point of view.

I appreciate that Califdad, and no paranormal forum would be legit without a good skeptic. It's certainly OK in my book to not always see eye to eye on something and that is what makes us all unique.

Mystic - props on starting this post by the way!

LOL, you are welcome. It's a good thing to clear the air and see what everybody thinks.


You made the comment about the Catholic church having a deeper understanding of spiritual/demonic matters than most other denominations. How so?

Yes, I believe they do. At least there is a ritual for possession, which I have used. And, there are many priests who have good information that I have referred to in the past. The Church is very skeptical and only declare a minute amount of people that come to them as actually possessed. Have you heard of Malachi Martin or read any of his works?


A lot of times in my posts I will mention that help does not need to come specfically from the Catholic church, or any other denomination... only to give the OPs a larger pool of help. I am not anti-Catholic... just trying to free people from a set mentality.
Yes, I understand. If I refer people to any group of people that can help them with the demonic, then I refer them to their nearest Catholic Church. Bishops are required to have access to at least one exorcist.

Edit: Also, the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church also have sacramentals, such as holy water, icons and relics, which is something I find helpful against darkness.

Peace...

But what if we are not dealing with human possession... hauntings for instance.

But what if we are not dealing with human possession....hauntings for instance.
Generally, a house blessing is done and of course there is a ritual for that. I go through a house and anoint doorways and windows with oil that I have blessed, bless water and sprinkle it throughout while saying various prayers.

Peace...

So because the Catholic church has a ritual for it means they have a better understanding of this subject? This goes back again to ritual starting to take precedence over the purity of God's authority. Not that the ritual is WRONG so much, but that it can begin to be relied upon more so than the actual power removing the spirit.

I've seen some strange things during my life and whether these are ghosts or demons or just last nights pizza I cannot be sure but I don't want to see them again but I know one thing for sure they vanish when I start to pray

So because the Catholic church has a ritual for it means they have a better understanding of this subject? This goes back again to ritual starting to take precedence over the purity of God's authority. Not that the ritual is WRONG so much, but that it can begin to be relied upon more so than the actual power removing the spirit.
The Catholic Church has been in existence for almost 2000 years. It's not so much that they have the rituals, but that they have had the time and understanding to create them. If you've ever read the rite of exorcism, you will see the richness and comprehensiveness of it. To be honest, I've not used it much. I had a very great man teach me some basics, guided me and gave me the foundation of dealing with the spirit world. He was not Catholic.

The purpose (in my mind) of having a ritual is so that you don't go off on rabbit trails, which will get the host injured and yourself. The ritual keeps you on track and reminds you of the important things that need to be dealt with. The exorcism rite has three distinct divisions or guidelines. They are three different approaches to dealing with various conditions and the priest is free to use any or none at all.

I am much more drawn to Catholic writers, theologians and exorcists than to any other Christian denomination. In my opinion, they have had more experience and understanding. Father Malachi Martin and Father Gabriele Amorth are two great examples. But, there are those in the Anglican tradition who also do a very good job.

Christ has all authority, but I have to say that though Christ is present with us, He expects us to go up against the evil and do our job. We can't just sit back and say, "Okay Jesus - have at 'em". It doesn't work that way. Most of the cases I've done are complex and it's just not that simple to use one ritual one time or simply command them to leave in Jesus' name and everything is kosher. They will come back unless the underlying issues are dealt with.

Peace...

I have to say, I do believe in the possibility of the paranormal. I had an unexplainable incident years ago which may or may not have been paranormal.

Anyway, because of this incident, I learned all I could learn and then I joined a fairly well established "ghost hunting" group in my area. I went on numerous investigations with them and you know what I saw? Nothing. Nothing other than a bunch of over-eager idiots that wanted to be big important ghost hunters so badly that every drop of moisture, speck of dust, blade of grass, piece of hair, and camera strap caught in pictures was surely a ghost. They were so adamant about being skeptics first and being scientific about the way they did investigations yet in practice, they were none of that.

I saw countless "jokes" that made me disgusted. I saw one investigator shooting photos outside in 80 degree weather after it had just rained... golly, look at those orbs! I saw the second in command investigator take flash photos into a furnace room with a dirt floor and then proudly show his photos while exclaiming, "this place is ripe with orbs." Yeah, sure it was. I saw the "psychic" of the group start making wild claims of flying demons pouncing down on our group when we were at a famous, possibly haunted, college once things started to get slow and people were getting bored.

The worst thing I saw was when we went to investigate a house where the parents of a 12 year old boy were concerned with odd things happening in their house. They weren't scared of the "spirits" they had there and in fact, they even claimed that a spirit had saved their boys life a year before. They wanted us there to help them understand what was really going on. What did the group do? We did our investigation and during it, the head guy and the psychic started playing it up because we had radio personalities there and they wanted excitement. They played it up so badly... the house was under siege by evil spirits coming out of the woods! "They're coming through the basement! They're here! They're here!"... "Block them! Block them!"... "There's evil spirits, hundreds of them, waiting in the woods and they want to get in this house"... It was madness.

So the family had been OK before we went there... but we managed to terrorize them into moving out.

I quit them as I couldn't take it anymore and there were some other reasons as well. I just couldn't believe it and that whole experience just kind of jaded me to the whole paranormal thing. I know that not all ghost groups and paranormal investigators are like this. I know that many are competent and trustworthy... but I also know there are plenty of these types of idiots out there.

Now, I didn't post this to talk crap about anyone that does believe as I guess I kind of do as well. I just wanted to put this out there since the OP asked the question.

Let me see if I am getting this right.
Ultimately it matters very little what faith or how strong your relationship with The Almighty.
Anyone is subject to a "visit" whether spiritual or haunting, given the circumstances that may allow it.
Isn't it more common for a haunting to be attached to a place rather than a person, or is that a bunch of hooey?
Sorry, still digging here, and enjoying you guys views on this.

I have to say, I do believe in the possibility of the paranormal. I had an unexplainable incident years ago which may or may not have been paranormal.

Anyway, because of this incident, I learned all I could learn and then I joined a fairly well established "ghost hunting" group in my area. I went on numerous investigations with them and you know what I saw? Nothing. Nothing other than a bunch of over-eager idiots that wanted to be big important ghost hunters so badly that every drop of moisture, speck of dust, blade of grass, piece of hair, and camera strap caught in pictures was surely a ghost. They were so adamant about being skeptics first and being scientific about the way they did investigations yet in practice, they were none of that.

I saw countless "jokes" that made me disgusted. I saw one investigator shooting photos outside in 80 degree weather after it had just rained...golly, look at those orbs! I saw the second in command investigator take flash photos into a furnace room with a dirt floor and then proudly show his photos while exclaiming, "this place is ripe with orbs." Yeah, sure it was. I saw the "psychic" of the group start making wild claims of flying demons pouncing down on our group when we were at a famous, possibly haunted, college once things started to get slow and people were getting bored.

The worst thing I saw was when we went to investigate a house where the parents of a 12 year old boy were concerned with odd things happening in their house. They weren't scared of the "spirits" they had there and in fact, they even claimed that a spirit had saved their boys life a year before. They wanted us there to help them understand what was really going on. What did the group do? We did our investigation and during it, the head guy and the psychic started playing it up because we had radio personalities there and they wanted excitement. They played it up so badly...the house was under siege by evil spirits coming out of the woods! "They're coming through the basement! They're here! They're here!"...."Block them! Block them!"...."There's evil spirits, hundreds of them, waiting in the woods and they want to get in this house"....It was madness.

So the family had been ok before we went there....but we managed to terrorize them into moving out.

I quit them as I couldn't take it anymore and there were some other reasons as well. I just couldn't believe it and that whole experience just kind of jaded me to the whole paranormal thing. I know that not all ghost groups and paranormal investigators are like this. I know that many are competent and trustworthy...but I also know there are plenty of these types of idiots out there.

Now, I didn't post this to talk crap about anyone that does believe as I guess I kind of do as well. I just wanted to put this out there since the OP asked the question.
No problem. Thanks for sharing. Yeah, I know. I went to a house with a new "start-up" paranormal group and the lead guy was just overwhelmed. He and his friend were avid watchers of T.A.P.S. and decided they would start their own group.

Needless to say, I went to the house with them and was sorely disappointed in their lack of professionalism. However, I did "consulting" with another paranormal group who were very professional, intelligent and balanced in their approach. It's like anything else, give somebody a little bit of knowledge and they can be dangerous :)

Peace...

No problem. Thanks for sharing. Yeah, I know. I went to a house with a new "start-up" paranormal group and the lead guy was just overwhelmed. He and his friend were avid watchers of T.A.P.S. and decided they would start their own group.


You know what was worse though? They had been around for a few years before TAPS ever got on TV. Like I said, they were pretty well established in the area. Once TAPS made it, they claimed to have been in contact with Grant and were very annoyed that TAPS wouldn't accept them as a chapter. They constantly talked about how unprofessional TAPS is (which I agree with, but for different reasons which I won't go into now) and how much better they are. Sometimes I had difficulty holding my thoughts to myself. Honestly, if the one lady in the group was really a psychic, she would have known what I was thinking and they would have got rid of me... LOL!

Let me see if I am getting this right.
Ultimately it matters very little what faith or how strong your relationship with The Almighty.
Anyone is subject to a "visit" whether spiritual or haunting, given the circumstances that may allow it.
Isn't it more common for a haunting to be attached to a place rather than a person, or is that a bunch of hooey?
Sorry, still digging here, and enjoying you guys views on this.

I don't believe that to be true, the reality is that we can inadvertently open ourselves to being oppressed spiritually and how that plays out very much will ultimately depend on our relationship with God and the person who ministers into the situation.

Hauntings are the result of something unresolved spiritually either as a direct result of demonic activity or some very evil occurrence whereas demons can possess a person and need to be ejected.

As to it being a bunch of hooey, no, there is always a reason why there is a problem but we are not so much concerned with what the problem is as in enforcing the soveriegnty of Jesus Christ over the situation

I don't believe that to be true, the reality is that we can inadvertently open ourselves to being oppressed spiritually and how that plays out very much will ultimately depend on our relationship with God and the person who ministers into the situation.

Yes that is clearer to me. Thank you.

Odinn - That is one of a few reason's I shy away from investigators and investigations. It just gets out of control and seems to quickly leave it's "scientific" purpose.

Paraclete - loved your response.

Ladysam - we did touch on that earlier... ones religious beliefs play NO role in how the spiritual world tries to affect you. They do however, play the more important role of how you react to them. Being a Christian didn't keep a spirit out of my daughter's room one night... but it did give me the authority to remove it.

Mysticman - I hope my response was not taken that Jesus does all the work. That wasn't quite what I meant. According to Mark 16 it is the church's job to go into all the world. And by no means does the mentioning of the name Jesus make every demon flee at that second. Some are stronger and they do take time to remove. As you said, many times there are underlying issues that need to be taken care of first. I only meant that when removal IS complete that is was all His authority and power, not ours. Deliverance may be instant (as was my case), or it may take hours of prayer and struggle. I think my biggest problem with using things such as icons or blessed items in removal is that too much of the time they are relied upon more so that whose power is being used. I wouldn't say, and hope it wasn't taken this way in previous responses, that using holy water or a cross or incense is WRONG... only unneccessay.

Odinn - That is one of a few reason's I shy away from investigators and investigations. It just gets out of control and seems to quickly leave it's "scientific" purpose.

Paraclete - loved your response.

Ladysam - we did touch on that earlier...ones religious beliefs play NO role in how the spiritual world tries to affect you. They do however, play the more important role of how you react to them. Being a Christian didn't keep a spirit out of my daughter's room one night...but it did give me the authority to remove it.

Mysticman - I hope my response was not taken that Jesus does all the work. That wasn't quite what I meant. According to Mark 16 it is the church's job to go into all the world. And by no means does the mentioning of the name Jesus make every demon flee at that second. Some are stronger and they do take time to remove. As you said, many times there are underlying issues that need to be taken care of first. I only meant that when removal IS complete that is was all His authority and power, not ours. Deliverance may be instant (as was my case), or it may take hours of prayer and struggle. I think my biggest problem with using things such as icons or blessed items in removal is that too much of the time they are relied upon moreso that whose power is being used. I wouldn't say, and hope it wasn't taken this way in previous responses, that using holy water or a cross or incense is WRONG....only unneccessay.
Wow, you managed to take care of a lot of people at once ;)

I understand you brother. It's all good and I agree with you.

Peace...

I appreciate taking the time to clear the air with this. Sometimes it can take awhile to get to know somebody. The internet can be a hard way to communicate in that it is difficult to discern attitudes, contexts and emotions. I know I can come across as argumentative often, and it is rarely my intent... it's just what happens. I frequently try to find a better way to word things and sometimes I am successful and others I am not ;)

Just as you felt with the OP that you didn't get to talk to before the thread closed, I too am fueled by an intense concern for those struggling with these problems... and that can make me a bit zealous at times (not always a bad thing).

Just as you felt with the OP that you didn't get to talk to before the thread closed, I too am fueled by an intense concern for those struggling with these problems...and that can make me a bit zealous at times (not always a bad thing).



Since the thread / conversation has been moved to more liberal surroundings we are free to discuss and even waiver off topic and back again. That is what the discussion boards are about and unless there was disruption like name calling we have a lot more freedom here. Im glad mystic presented the question and glad we all followed through and contributed to the discussion. Its nice to see as the rules are a bit looser here then in regular posted boards where they may be closed down for waivering.

Thanks mystic for your concerns and for starting this thread.