I have been seeing a married man for nearly three years now. We spend time in my house chatting and yes the other thing too and he takes me out in the day now and then for a meal but not that often. We have fallen out several times but he always comes back to me saying the intimate side is the best he’s ever had, he also started taking me out telling me he did not want to just be coming taking advantage of me which I thought meant his feelings were going a bit deeper now maybe.

We had an argument a few weeks back and he never text or came round for a while, I then text him and he said how much he missed me although it sounded as if he just meant the physical side. I got a bit upset and cried as I had not been feeling well and for the first time the sexual side was difficult for me too. I also was honest telling him he had two lives and that I wanted him to communicate with me more. When he left I had a text saying it did not feel right and that he thought he is upsetting me and messing my mind up and that he feels terribly guilty about using me. I told him I think we should have a break from it for a while and he thought it was a good idea.

Afterward I got angry with myself as I always do and started hurling abusive texts saying that he’s probably seeing someone else, etc. Then he got mad back and told me to give him some space. He is quite a loner sort of man, not arrogant or the sort of man who has lots of women on the go. In fact he’s quite anxious and nervous some of the time, too anxious to be a player. He says I'm hard work. It’s just I get angry as he shows interest in my life one minute and says he wants to take me out and respect me and treat me like a lady, asks about my family and wants to see pictures of them and then the next he seems like he’s desperate for the intimate side only. He will swing from one to the other. He has told me his wife sleeps on the sofa every night but that he does want her but she does not want him. He does not seem to want to try and get her back though and I cannot understand this. He seemed upset when we talked about this and seemed almost embarrassed at nearly getting emotional. He says he just sits indoors alone or doing things he needs to do, does not seem to go out much or have many friends.

Also he went on holiday with his family a few times but says they find it difficult to be together and it was hard and that they all stay out of each other’s way indoors too. I find this strange. What’s going on? I need some advice as I love him and want to try to bring him out emotionally and at least talk to me but it’s terribly hard. He seems like he’s trying to push me away one minute and cannot wait to see me the next. Do you think this sort of man I have described would be seeing someone else apart from me? I need advice as I love him and want to know if he has feelings for me. Thanks.

Three years. That is a long time to invest in a man. I take it you didn't realize he was married until, what, last week?

I hope that there are no children involved, that he doesn't leave your bed, and go home and set a good example of what a man and father is to his wife and children.

Did you ever think that part of the reason he sees you, is that he has become distant to his wife (and family), and silence is covering up guilt and remorse? While you service him with what is missing in his life, his wife has no idea she's being stabbed in the back by a dishonourable woman? Really- what kind of woman does this to another woman.

He, instead of being a man, stepping up, trying to work on his marriage, falls for a woman who is easily available for sex. It's worked for three years, and yes, you have been used. But, you allowed yourself to be used.

It seems obvious he's not going to leave his wife. That's too bad because she could probably be happier divorced from him. Too bad for you as well, because when you eventually wake up and realize your life with a married man is going nowhere, you've wasted a good chunk of your life.

I don't know what kind of advice you are looking for here. If you are wondering what you should do, my advice is to drop the married man, show a little belated respect for the other woman (wife) involved here, and possibly an entire family, if there are kids, and get out.

What you have is not love. Not even close to an honest relationship. It is all based on deceipt. Who cares if he's seeing someone else as you suggest- for all you know he's seeing his wife, and she's NOT sleeping on the couch.

Get a single, available man, and leave married men alone.

Thank you Jake and no hands up I knew he was married right from the start and I was the one to give him my phone number after he started chatting me up. I wish he would sort it out with his wife but he seems very quick to tell me to sort my life out too. I have told him we both need too. When I text him the other week he was texting me back saying he uses people, upsets people, he's no good and he will never change. Although yes I have played my part I don't understand why he's saying this. I thought it was just excuses after he ran out on me saying it did not feel right? Although he does not say it he must feel guilt for his wife, although he says the guilt he feels is about using me too. He told me he was sorry that he uses me. All this seemed to come out just because I showed my feelings and shed some tears. I think I hit a nerve and its panicked him. Yes he has two teenage children and I cannot understand why they all do not seem to be a family together. What could be wrong?
Yes I know your right but I'm trying also to understand why he's the way he is and why the wife would even stay with him. He has said he won't leave them and I don't want him too either. Any more advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Could any one else please tell me their experiences or advise in this situation please? It would be most welcome. Thank you.

Anyone else feel free to give me advice, there must be other women in this situation so please talk to me and tell me your experiences and views on this subject? Thanks.

Anyone else feel free to give me advice, there must be other women in this situation so please talk to me and tell me your experiences and views on this subject?. Thanks.

Are you sure about this?

I AM the wife who's marriage women like you have ruined. I had 2 sons who are grown now and have a hard time trusting people.

You really don't want to know what I feel/think about women like you.

I actually did not ruin his marriage at all. He has a mind of his own and his wife has shown she does not want him at all. Its women like you who need to open their eyes and start looking to the husband not the women he has relationships with outside of his marriage.

I actually did not ruin his marriage at all. He has a mind of his own and his wife has shown she does not want him at all. Its women like you who need to open their eyes and start looking to the husband not the women he has relationships with outside of his marriage.

I suppose you've seen this with your own eyes or did he tell you this?

Women like you have very low self esteem and virtually no morals. You knew from the get go that he was married, you knew that this could ruin his relationship with his children. You could have said no to his advances, but you didn't.

Firstly a lot of people he knows have the same opinion about his marriage and have said the very same thing. And yes I do have self esteem. Why do people always seem to blame the other woman? HE HAS BEEN GOING OUTSIDE OF HIS MARRIAGE. He has a large proportion of any blame. He knew he was married, that he has kids, and he made advances also. So he has blame too not just the other woman.

Firstly a lot of people he knows have the same opinion about his marriage and have said the very same thing. And yes i do have self esteem. Why do people always seem to blame the other woman?. HE HAS BEEN GOING OUTSIDE OF HIS MARRIAGE. He has a large proportion of any blame. He knew he was married, that he has kids, and he made advances also. So he has blame too not just the other woman.

You are absolutely right. He shares the blame. He is a pig who cheats and doesn't honor his vows. But he is not the one who posted here. His share of the blame isn't the issue here. YOU ARE! You knew he was married and you still made advances or, at least, accepted his. What you should have done is tell him to call you when he has a finalized divorce. Anything less than that is just as much your fault as his. Trying to shift the blame to him is just rationalizing your own shortcomings.

So the fact remains that YOU enabled his cheating. So if you really want a relationship with this guy you tell him to call you when he gets a divorce. But of course, you will always wonder whether he is cheating on you. And frankly you deserve that.

It's not one sided. This man is a jerk for running around on his wife and family. You see, it takes two to tango. I never said that you were the one entirely at fault, but you are part of the blame here too. After all, it was you that offered your phone number knowing that he was married.

Now, what did you come here for? Do you think anyone is going to sympathize with your plight? He will never be 100%, or even 50% yours. He has a wife and two children that he will spend Christmas, New Years, etc. with while you sit at home alone.

Even if he did divorce his wife for you, you will never be entirely sure he is not cheating on you as well.

As I said no its not one sided at all and I have been totally honest about my part. I do not agree about Enabling his cheating. HE DID THAT OK. He could say no at any time and as I said its common knowledge the wife has been hateful to him. I do not want sympathy I was interested to know about others in my situation of which there must be loads. I admit most people don't have my blunt honesty. And its amazing that as soon as you say married man people say ohhh he will cheat on you, he's a pig etc. Well most men are cheats , women are cheated on married or not so its all the same but it seems to be oh so different on the other woman if the man their seeing is married. I hold my hands up to my part totally though yes.

I do not agree about Enabling his cheating. HE DID THAT OK. He could say no at any time.. I hold my hands up to my part totally though yes.

No I don't think you are holding your hands up. Not when you deny enabling his cheating. Sure, if it wasn't you it might have been someone else. But the fact is you offered him the opportunity. Cheaters tend to be weak willed individuals and might not cheat unless given an opportunity. So you need to be more honest with yourself. I'm not trying to excuse him, but you seem to want to make this mostly his fault.


Well most men are cheats , women are cheated on married or not so its all the same but it seems to be oh so different on the other woman if the man their seeing is married.

I really HATE statements like that. Do you have any proof that more than 50% of all the billions of men on this planet cheat? While I don't deny that a significant portion of men do cheat, I doubt if its more than half. I also doubt if the percentage of men who cheat is much greater than the percentage of women who cheat.

But yes, it is different when a woman is seeing a married man (or vice versa). A married person is OFF LIMITS. They are already committed to someone else. Interfering with that commitment is wrong! Until they have legally renounced that commitment they are off limits.

What I should have said in the beginning was it was him who was eying me up and making it quite plain that he was interested and yes he told me there have been other women before me. It is both of us to blame yes I agree to that. But as I said it is a well known fact that his wife treats him very badly but he's told me he won't leave. And no I don't know all the ins and outs and whether that's the truth but what I'm saying is that can go for any man married or not. He made it quite plain first that he was interested so to my mind was enabling his own cheating. He should not be even ogling women if he's married. So?

. He should not be even ogling women if hes married. so?.

Correct, but since you knew he was married your response should have been; come see me when your divorce is final. ANY other response was enabling him and wrong on your part.

Hes ogled , therefore he made it known he's up for it so started it. That's what I think. This could go on and on but even though my part is played in this it still amazes me why men go elsewhere whatever if they are married and risk kids etc. If you don't want it get out ** that's what I say before you start making eyes at other women.

So you're walking down the street one day, and let's say you dabbled in a bit of cocaine in your college years. Knowing that your marks would drop if you kept up the late night partying, and there was a real good chance that you'd end up hooked on cocaine, you were forced to give it up, and ended up in rehab, after flunking out. You allowed yourself to go down that path, and it was destructive.

Then, ten years later, you're walking down the street and meet up with an old friend from those days that you used to party with.

He offers you some free cocaine for old times sake. You know it's dangerous, and you know that you shouldn't do it, but if he's using it and looks okay, he's "enabling himself", and why should you deny yourself the pleasure of taking the risk, and having a good time.

But then you realize what you put your parents through as a consequence of your use in college. Paying for an extra semester because you flunked out, rehab all summer, and the loss of both your using, and non-using friends.

Point being, you decided to cross the line- he did not hold a gun to your head. He is only guilty of providing you with an opportunity, which is not equal to deciding to actually use the drug.

It is the same with your married boyfriend. (men can't really be married to one, and a boyfriend to another can he?) He offered you himself, you knew it was wrong, it would cause all kinds of headaches, yet you crossed the line- with him.

And you continue to cross the line, over and over. When you made that decision, and then learned that your 'relationship' with him would never take the place of his wife and family, and could only end in hardship, unfulfilled dreams, and your entire life put on hold, you chose to continue. Had you not continued with him, he would have found another woman, just like you, to take your place.

You are not equal to 'a wife'. You are not the mother of his children. He has made it clear that you are in second, or third place if you consider the one that got pregnant. Why do you choose to settle.

He IS your drug, and you will do anything to get it. Common sense goes out the window, morals, scruples, betrayal, participating and allowing yourself to be used, missing out on a more appropriate relationship, etc. etc. all apply

You have ZERO control over him "oogling women", screwing around on his wife, being a horrible father and husband, etc. etc. ZERO. You do however, have enough brain power to know that he is just one of many men who are responsible for the destruction of their own lives, and the lives of their wives and children, and somehow you still think it's okay to keep 'using'.

Nobody can tell you how to live your life, but I can tell you that most likely in the not too distant future, his wife will know about you, and her life will be destroyed by his betrayal. And then he will begin to understand consequence, and his children will learn another hard lesson in life, in that he was a player, and it was him, and him alone that destroyed their lives.

And do you measure in there somewhere? No you don't, other than you were the woman that, maybe had you said NO, and not messed around with a married man, his marriage and family may have had a chance. But, regardless, you enabled him, you made a choice to see him under his rules, knowing that he would never be an honourable man either with you, or his wife and family.

So, settle for him if you want to, and be prepared for what you get. Which is not much of a man, not much of a relationship, not much of a future.

Isn't it time to turn your life around and raise the bar a little bit- with your own man? A single man, not a player, and not married with children?

And consider that there are married men out there who will hit on women- married or not. You always have the option of deciding not to screw with another woman's man.

Yea you pathetic I cannot believe what you're saying how you could do this and for 3 yrs. Talk about an easy booty call! That's what you are hunny a booty call. He obviously needs you only for sex that's it that guy and get yourself a new man hopefully one that's not marry if he has felt this way he would have let his wife and been with you obviously something is keeping him with his wife. Oh and that's bull that his wife sleeps on the couch that dumbass!!

Hes ogled , therefore he made it known hes up for it so started it. Thats what i think. This could go on and on but even though my part is played in this it still amazes me why men go elsewhere whatever if they are married and risk kids ect. If you dont want it get out ** thats what i say before you start making eyes at other women.

You just don't get it do you? Jake's response was very well said. It DOES NOT matter whether he made himself available to you. It DOES NOT matter what type of relationship he has with his wife, It DOES NOT matter whether he made the first move. What matters is that since he was married he was off limits. Therefore, you should have refused his advances, at least until he was no longer legally married.

He isn't posting here, you are. We can't advise him, we can only advise you. And the advice to you is that you were wrong to take up with this man and wrong to have a continuing relationship with him. Until you admit and accept that you cannot move on.

Im still sticking with my thought that he made the very first move even though it was a look and suggestive talk may I add. It does not matter whether I am posting or not and he's not . That still does not make me the bad guy. Hes married , He made it quite clear he was available for any sort of relationship. THE point is he started things rolling FIRST. That makes him the BAD GUY NOT ME. Another point to make what about the other women I have heard of who have relationships with guys who are married and go on to have successful relationships with them. They leave their wife's to be with them etc. And don't say oohh yeah they will cheat on them eventually. Yes they might or might not as goes with any guy married or not. What would you say about these women whose realationships with men who where married when they first met them turned out OK??

THE point is he started things rolling FIRST. That makes him the BAD GUY NOT ME

Hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

He made it quite clear he was available for any sort of relationship. THE point is he started things rolling FIRST. That makes him the BAD GUY NOT ME. wom

If you want to believe that to make you feel better, I can't stop you. I doubt if anyone else will see it that way.

As for women who have successfully broken up a marriage and then had a successful relationship, I happen to know one of those. Yes they do happen, but they are the exception not the rule. And generally the married party divorces shortly after the relationship starts.

I don't want to believe that to make me feel any better , that's how it was and how it started. I know quite a few people who have got together and gone on to have good relationships without cheating on each other having left this behind as they have found the one they truly want to be with and be faithful too There are a lot of sides to this subject.

Sorry but no. that as long as he was legally married, neither legally separated or divorced, then it was WRONG of you to enter any relationship with him. In some areas it may even be illegal. Clearly its immoral. No matter how you try to rationalize it, that is a fact. The purpose of a marriage vow is to commit one person to another legally and spiritually. To violate those vows is wrong to interfere with those vows is wrong.

End of story.

If he was legally married (is). It should be legally wrong then for him to make suggestions that he wants to go outside of that in the first place. Yes as I said I know my part. Yes I do. The first move was made by him whether he is posting this or not. End oF.

We already went over this. He broke his vows just as much as you interfered with them. That doesn't excuse your interference with his vows. Whether he made the first move or not is immaterial to the FACT that YOU were wrong for not turning him away. And frankly I don't think you do know your part because you keep trying to rationalize your part.

There is no convincing this "woman" that she is doing wrong. She will believe what she wants to believe.

He may be a womanizer, but she is enabling him to do so. Remember that Karma is a (b)itch. She'll come back to bite you in the end. Good luck to you and always watch behind your back.

Im not trying to say I never did wrong, I'm trying to get the simple point across its not ONE SIDED OK? Im not pathetic, I'm not a Booty call. Hes not a womanizer either, a womanizer is a man who goes round every good looking woman he can trying to get with them, flirting non stop and has a bad reputation. He is a quiet man who does not socialize a lot ,keeps himself to himself, he does not go round saying " look at me I'm gorgeous in fact quite the opposite most of the time he's got a terrible downer on himself and suffers from anxiety because of his family situation and how its made him. I realize there are so many married men who do this they are all lumped into the same box with comments of OHHh THEIR ALL THE SAME, THEY ARE NOT ALL THE SAME. There are exceptions to this rule. They are not all Bed hopping, womanizing, flirting men just because their married.. Please.

im trying to get the simple point across its not ONE SIDED OK?.

Who ever said it was?

And this last note makes little sense. All along you have been trying to pin the blame on him. Now you are defending him.

All along we have acknowledged that he certainly shares in the fault. He took vows and reneged on those vows. You have said that he made it "quite clear he was available". But that does not relieve you of YOUR responsibility. And that's what we are talking about here. He didn't post, he's not here to ask questions. You are, so the focus is on you.

And the fact remains, as I have said many times, is that once you knew he was married, then you should have told him to see you when he gets a divorce AND NOT BEFORE!

Im not going to say that to him as I have firm believes that he's frightenened of something i.e losing his children and he has made it plain that his wife has problems and turns everything into arguments. I think some men stay for children, fear of starting again on their own. I get the feeling he would want to leave if it were not for something stopping him. And no I know nothing physically is stopping him. I MEAN GUILT. Therefore he should not be taking any steps be it looks , suggestions to go with someone else before he has sorted out his problems at home. My reasoning is he started his , HIS PROBLEM. Im not married I'm single and yes I can do what I like he cannot.

This is like talking to a brick wall!

You are going to do whatever you want to do. What is it exactly you want to hear from us?

My reasoning is he started his , HIS PROBLEM.

We keep going around in circles here, but it always comes back to that. Because he started it, he's the bad person, its his problem, so it was OK for you to take up with him. No matter what else you have said here, it always comes back to that.

If you want or expect us to go along with that an lessen your obvious guilt, it ain't going to happen. Whatever else HE did, however much he is at fault, this is not one sided, nor will it ever be. Once you became aware he was married, then he became off limits. For you to encourage his advances, for you take up with him was WRONG! No matter how you try to rationalize it to yourself, that's a fact.

Clearly you are never going to admit that, even though I think, deep down, you understand it and that's why you have been fighting the truth so hard. Until you do, any further discussion is a waste of time, yours and ours.

As J_9 asked what else do you want from us?

I'm coming in this late - I worked in a matrimonial law firm. I've done more matrimonial/relationship surveillances than I can count. The husband ALWAYS tells the same sad story to the girlfriend about the neglectful, distracted wife who is cold and one of them sleeps on the couch, in the spare room, someplace other than the marital bed. When repeated to her this info is almost always a big shock to the wife!

At any rate, you cannot make a woman who has no self respect get self respect. The best she can get is someone else's husband.

No one can change that but her.

Judy Kay can I just have you reply to me? I am trying to get a point across that there are many people who go on to have successful relationships with people who have been married before , and who started seeing each other when one of them was still married OK?? If ,after all these people who have replied to me on here, this happens , HOW COME THEN?? What would YOU say about these people? I know of people who sleep[ in separate rooms and the husband has seen other women*. Their not lying then are they?? How come then? I don't care if the man I'm seeing is sleeping with his wife but he could be one of those who is telling the truth and telling it how it is?? Im not having a pop at you at all I'm just saying that there are people who are in bad marriages who don't sleep together. Come on now you must know this? Im not saying men lie because they do and women too but what about the exceptions. There has to be another side. If my relationship does not work out then it does not but I want to investigate all sides of this situation. Thanks .

Judy Kay can i just have you reply to me?. No, you can't. This is a public board and all members are permitted to reply.


I am trying to get a point across that there are many people who go on to have successful relationships with people who have been married before , and who started seeing each other when one of them was still married ok????. The operative word here is BEEN. Been married. Maybe some have gone on to have successful relationships AFTER the divorce, but it's not that common. Haven't you heard the term "once a cheater, always a cheater?"


I know of people who sleep[ in separate rooms and the husband has seen other women*. Their not lying then are they????. Actually they are. Just because they TELL you they are sleeping on separate rooms doesn't mean they actually are. You truly don't know unless you are there to visualize it... see it with your own eyes. You only hear it second hand... from him. The jerk who wants his cake and to eat it too.


I dont care if the man im seeing is sleeping with his wife but he could be one of those who is telling the truth and telling it how it is??. But you only hear this out of his mouth, so how do you know he is telling the truth?

You see, I don't feel that you deserve 100% of the blame at all. This man is a liar and a cheat. To him you are sloppy seconds. He will never devote all of his time to you.

What has come through in over 2 weeks and 4 pages of discussion is that you feel a great deal of guilt for getting involved with this guy. You are so very desperate to find some justification for taking up with him. You really need to understand that.

I mentioned earlier, that I knew of such a relationship. I had an uncle, who took up with his secretary, divorced my aunt, married the secretary and remained married until he died. From what I know of the marriage it was successful. I'm not going to go into details about why I think they worked out. But the point is that he did get a divorce. And it wasn't three years later.

That doesn't change the fact that his secretary was wrong for encouraging him.

Judy Kay can i just have you reply to me?. I am trying to get a point across that there are many people who go on to have successful relationships with people who have been married before , and who started seeing each other when one of them was still married ok????. If ,after all these people who have replied to me on here, this happens , HOW COME THEN???. What would YOU say about these people?. I know of people who sleep[ in separate rooms and the husband has seen other women*. Their not lying then are they????. How come then?. I dont care if the man im seeing is sleeping with his wife but he could be one of those who is telling the truth and telling it how it is??. Im not having a pop at you at all im just saying that there are people who are in bad marriages who dont sleep together. Come on now you must know this?. Im not saying men lie because they do and women too but what about the exceptions. There has to be another side. If my relationship does not work out then it does not but i want to investigate all sides of this situation. Thanks .



I don't feel a need to defend my opinions but - I can boil it down very quickly. I don't know any of the "many people" who cheated, married, lived happily ever after with the cheating partner. Apparently you do, although I don't see any of them posting here.

Your boyfriend lies to his wife. Why do you think what he tells you is the truth?

Of course there's another side. I don't defend or, for that matter, understand that "other side." You want out of a marriage? Get out of the marriage. Get divorced, date out in the open.

I've had friends involved in affairs - they see the boyfriend certain days, certain times, because he has responsibilities at home. Christmas is a day late or a day early - same thing. Thanksgiving? They eat alone. They hope their birthday falls on a day when he's available. Go out in public to a nice restaurant? Can't take the chance.

I don't want to live in the shadows. I have too much self respect.

I never have, never would get involved with a man who is/was involved with another woman. No man is worth hurting another woman in that manner. It also comes down to self respect. I can actually find men who are single and available. I don't need another woman's reject.

I do matrimonial surveillances (as well as other surveillances). I have posted this same thing before. It's very seldom about the sex, the affair. It's ALL about your partner looking you in the face and lying... and lying... and lying. You believe the person and end up feeling like a fool. Meanwhile, he goes on lying... and lying... and lying - and the "other woman" condones his behavior.

Is it really worth it? Is he the only man in town?

You can answer a question for me - what's in the affair for you?

I do know lots of people who have had relationships with married men, I have a friend who has been seeing someone who has been married for over 3 years and living with his wife while he is seeing this person. Hes now left his wife and they are happy, no difference to any other relationship that works out well for single people. Just because people are married it does not set them aside as different. Or it does not mean their relationship with someone else is or is not going to work out less than anyone who is single. Sorry that's my views. I had an aunt and uncle who I saw with my own eyes slept in other rooms when their marriage went sour, so people do do that I'm afraid. Not everyone lies. You cannot tar everyone with the same brush. Things do work out.

We must travel in very different circles - that's the only explanation I can think of.

Look, we're on different sides here. That doesn't mean I don't hear what you are saying. I also think you are looking to justify your own actions, your own feelings. I honestly think you're in a bad spot. I just never allowed myself to get involved with anyone who was involved with someone else because I wouldn't do "that" to another woman AND I would never open myself up to a world of hurt. I managed a law firm. "We" did a lot of Family Court work - divorce, custody and so forth. I saw children in terrible pain because one of their parents cheated and the family was torn apart.

I've also heard the "we sleep in different rooms, we have nothing in common but, by the way, we're going away on vacation together" line.

I'm not saying marriages don't end. I'm not saying all marriages are happy. I am saying that children learn by what they see far more than by what they hear (or what "we" tell them). They see cheating, what do they think? It's okay?

Being married DOES set people "aside as different" if you are talking about dating. They are married. They've made promises and vows. Single people haven't (although I wouldn't get involved with someone who is unmarried but in a relationship). "Back in the day" in lived in NYC. Seemed like 70% of the men I met were (A) older; (B) separated. I could deal with older. "Separated" USUALLY meant that "he" was standing here and "she" was standing there.

I HOPE you aren't just sitting home, watching life go by, waiting for him to have the ability to take you out for a meal every now and then. If you are going to stay in this relationship (and it's my belief that one or the other of you will get bored and move on at some point) you need to be prepared in the event it ends. Don't make him your whole life.

Why do people sleep in separate rooms? I don't know. I do know that marriage is not all about sex or where you sleep. You don't know me. You don't know where I've been or what I've experienced - and that goes both ways. I also don't know you.

My late husband was pretty much an invalid for five years, in the hospital as much (if not more) than he was home. Five out of six Christmases, five out of six Thanksgiving Days, weeks during every Summer. At the very end I changed his diapers. Why do I mention any of this? First, because a relationship is not about sleeping in the same room or, for that mater, sex. I knew one thing for certain - as did he. I would be there for him no matter how good or bad things got. I guarantee that if things had been reversed he would have been there for me. We had one rule - no third parties, physically OR emotionally.

And I will add that this was not a long term marriage. We actually married in Cardiac Intensive Care and I knew from the day we married that I would be a widow. I just didn't know how soon.

I don't know your age or his but terrible things happen to people at every age. Will he be there for you?

I know I keep repeating myself but I work matrimonial/relationship surveillances for law firms. I won't work for individuals, which is beside the point. I can only address my experience BUT if I get to talk to the "other" person (and frequently I am asked to do so) I find that the married person is lying on both sides, looking the partner in the face and lying about his/her whereabouts and looking the "friend" in the face and doing the same thing. I see money spent on the "friend" which should go to the family. I see shattered children. I see (usually) wives who are working and raising children and maintaining a home because the family needs her income - and her partner is out, romancing someone with some of that money. That's the unemotional, dollar and cents side of things.

That is one exceptionally well written response.

I do hope you are listening and considering your options Bubbles.

Advice doesn't get any better than this.

Having his cake and eatting it comes to mind.It sounds like he has a lovely family life at home and you on the side. Basically he is using you,I hope you take this comment in the way it was meant.

I read and try to understand all the comments all the well meant comments here. Apart from being with this man this is going to sound strange but I just want to understand WHY MEN DO THIS? Why get married have a lovely family, stay with them and lie and cheat?? To me you don't love someone if your prepared to LIE?? As I said there are loads of sides and it could go round for ever. Its almost like I'm not taken in by him I know he could be lying, I also know he might not be. I end up almost wanting despaerately to help him and understand why he's doing this to me and to her. I just don't understand when I was told he did not sleep with her he looked so upset genuinely and told me she did not want him. He also told me honestly he does want her but she cannot stand him touching her. I don't know what the other side of this story is? Why will he not do Something then to win back his wife? That's what I cannot understand. And I cannot understand why he says its so difficult when they spend time together the whole family that is. Most men cannot wait to go on Holiday with their families. He says they all do their own thing and keep out of each others way indoors? WHY?? Its so sad and Strange.

I read and try to understand all the comments all the well meant comments here. Apart from being with this man this is going to sound strange but i just want to understand WHY MEN DO THIS?. Why get married have a lovely family, stay with them and lie and cheat??. To me you dont love someone if your prepared to LIE??. As i said there are loads of sides and it could go round for ever. Its almost like im not taken in by him i know he could be lying, i also know he might not be. I end up almost wanting despaerately to help him and understand why hes doing this to me and to her. I just dont understand when i was told he did not sleep with her he looked so upset genuinely and told me she did not want him. He also told me honestly he does want her but she cannot stand him touching her. I dont know what the other side of this story is?. Why will he not do Something then to win back his wife?? thats what i cannot understand. And i cannot understand why he says its so difficult when they spend time together the whole family that is. Most men cannot wait to go on Holiday with their families. He says they all do their own thing and keep out of each others way indoors?. WHY??. Its so sad and Strange.


Well, for starters, why do you care why he lies?

He lies to you and has a family and you on the side because he can, because - quite frankly - YOU allow it.

Let's see - why wouldn't he say he still loves his wife, he still sleeps with his wife, the sex is great? Oh, I know - because if he said that you'd be less understanding and he'd be back to having sex with only one woman, his wife.

Maybe he hates women. Maybe he thinks he's G*d's gift to women. Maybe he's a serial liar. I have no idea.

Again, why do you care? Who knows why anybody does anything.

You want to help him? Help him do what? He's an adult. Why can't he help himself?

Having his cake and eatting it comes to mind.It sounds like he has a lovely family life at home and you on the side. Basicly he is using you,i hope you take this comment in the way it was ment.

How can he have a LOVELY?? Family life when its known his wife does not want him and they all find it difficult to be together as I have already said and people seem to be overlooking this statement?? Its obviously not lovely is it?? No offence taken and no offence meant. Thanks.

How can he have a LOVELY???? family life when its known his wife does not want him and they all find it difficult to be together as i have already said and people seem to be overlooking this statement????. Its obviously not lovely is it??. No offence taken and no offence meant. Thanks.


Who knows that his wife does not want him and they find it difficult to be together? You? Him? His wife? The entire town?

I do agree with you, though - there is no lovely family life if he's involved with another woman.

No one not even me can say what is the truth one way or another, but no there can be no Happy life at home.

I disagree - he's got the best of both worlds.

For someone who is done with him you don't seem to be able to drop it.

And, again - why does his family life matter to you? You should be concerned - if it's your choice to continue the relationship - about your "life" with him, not his life with her.

He is presumably an adult. If he's unhappy he can leave. If he's not unhappy he can stay.

Just remember, what goes around comes around... and deservingly so.

It is a well known fact that people stay in marrieages for kids even though they are unhappy. Some people even have open marriages?? If someone is happy they DO NOT go searching or get involved with anyone else EVER. So something is obviously wrong whichever way you look at it. I think people should stop trying to make out they go with other women because of this or that but OHHH they have a lovely home life, and they love their wife's. Sorry, if you love someone and you want them you DO NOT CHEAT. There has to be problems.

I disagree - he's got the best of both worlds.

For someone who is done with him you don't seem to be able to drop it.

And, again - why does his family life matter to you? You should be concerned - if it's your choice to continue the relationship - about your "life" with him, not his life with her.

He is presumably an adult. If he's unhappy he can leave. If he's not unhappy he can stay.

No as I can see there is both sides and no one knows as I have said. I would feel awful if I told him too go away and then found out his wife was really horrible and he was feeling awful for real. I am concerned as I love him and want to find out what is wrong so I can better understand where he is coming from.

As I said People stay in marriages for other reasons, they don't want to cause upheaval for kids etc. Although its better to leave.

Nothing has changed, has it? You are still trying to justify the fact that you not only enabled this man to cheat on his wife, but you encouraged him despite knowing he was married. Its not going to fly here.

If anyone is unhappy in a marriage, then they end the marriage. ONLY THEN can they enter a relationship with someone else. Anyone who enters into a relationship before the marriage is ended is enabling that person to cheat. And doing so is morally and ethically wrong. There is no moral or ethical justification for that.

No as i can see there is both sides and no one knows as i have said. I would feel awful if i told him too go away and then found out his wife was really horrible and he was feeling awful for real. I am concerned as i love him and want to find out what is wrong so i can better understand where he is coming from.

As i said People stay in marriages for other reasons, they dont want to cause upheaval for kids ect. Although its better to leave.


You are justifying cheating.

Poor thing, I feel for you as you have convinced yourself that this is a real relationship. It's not because it's built on lies and deceit, and you have fooled yourself to believe it's real, and has a future. It doesn't unless you like what you have and accept it won't change.

Why do men (and women) cheat? Because it's easy to find someone to cheat with! DUH! You think if it was difficult they would work hard to do it? Hell all you have to do is blow sweet words, and LIES in a willing ear and tell them how miserable you are.

Works every time on a willing person looking for something to bring a thrill to their lives. It's a lot easier than working on finding a real relationship, and growing it into something great for you both. No you just accept what he gives, and he takes what he can get, and when it gets hard, or too much work, I am sure he has a place to go besides home.

Whether his home in terrible, or great, doesn't matter because as you said if it were as bad as he says why is he still there? Why doesn't he leave where he is unwanted and miserable, and come where he can be comfortable and happy?

Because he doesn't have to because it's not as bad as he says and divorce is too expensive, and a hassle, plus he has you for a quick fix, feel good when he needs it so why bother? He doesn't have to live with your crap both because he already has a female to b1tch at him or whatever, at home and he can leave you and disappear until you don't nag him and bring your own complications to him.

Men cheat because it's the easiest thing to do. And you make it easy. So no worries, he will keep coming back until it gets hard, then he can just replace you with another easy, quick fix, feel good. You let him, because it's easier being a part time mistress than being alone, or with someone who is available to do the hard work to build a relationship.

That's why men cheat (and women), because there is always someone to give them what they want with no strings attached and make it easy to put up a sham relationship that they both can escape to. They can lie, cheat, and get release and say it's real, without the work a commitment takes to make it really real.

When a marriage is built on lies and deceit, it's unhealthy and dysfunctional. Same with a relationship, and affairs are no different, it's just another dysfunctional unhealthy human interaction, but it's easier to go along with the lies, and justify it because, that's all you have. If you had a real life you were really happy with, then you wouldn't fall for this unhealthy crap.

Lie to yourself all you want, but don't expect people to believe it.

ERROR: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to talaniman again.

Bravo! Standing ovation! This woman will never learn and she will end up living a sad lonely existence.

You are justifying cheating.

Im not trying to justify, just to look on both sides of which there are and many people just don't seem to want to see that. There are many people who say they stay in a marriage for their kids sake and do not want to cause an upheaval?? yes?? I'm sure even you have heard people say this?? Why do people just seem to want to deny that people can and do stay in an unhappy home for different reasons. Many people stay for years in marriages that have gone sour.

Poor thing, I feel for you as you have convinced yourself that this is a real relationship. It’s not because it’s built on lies and deceit, and you have fooled yourself to believe it’s real, and has a future. It doesn't unless you like what you have and accept it won't change.

Why do men (and women) cheat? Because it’s easy to find someone to cheat with! DUH!! You think if it was difficult they would work hard to do it? Hell all you have to do is blow sweet words, and LIES in a willing ear and tell them how miserable you are.

Works every time on a willing person looking for something to bring a thrill to their lives. It’s a lot easier than working on finding a real relationship, and growing it into something great for you both. No you just accept what he gives, and he takes what he can get, and when it gets hard, or too much work, I am sure he has a place to go besides home.

Whether his home in terrible, or great, doesn't matter because as you said if it were as bad as he says why is he still there? Why doesn't he leave where he is unwanted and miserable, and come where he can be comfortable and happy?

Because he doesn't have to because it’s not as bad as he says and divorce is too expensive, and a hassle, plus he has you for a quick fix, feel good when he needs it so why bother? He doesn't have to live with your crap both because he already has a female to b1tch at him or whatever, at home and he can leave you and disappear until you don't nag him and bring your own complications to him.

Men cheat because it’s the easiest thing to do. And you make it easy. So no worries, he will keep coming back until it gets hard, then he can just replace you with another easy, quick fix, feel good. You let him, because it’s easier being a part time mistress than being alone, or with someone who is available to do the hard work to build a relationship.

That’s why men cheat (and women), because there is always someone to give them what they want with no strings attached and make it easy to put up a sham relationship that they both can escape to. They can lie, cheat, and get release and say it’s real, without the work a commitment takes to make it really real.

When a marriage is built on lies and deceit, it’s unhealthy and dysfunctional. Same with a relationship, and affairs are no different, it’s just another dysfunctional unhealthy human interaction, but it’s easier to go along with the lies, and justify it because, that’s all you have. If you had a real life you were really happy with, then you wouldn't fall for this unhealthy crap.

Lie to yourself all you want, but don't expect people to believe it.

I never said I thought it had any future, although I would if he wanted. Im not going around thinking it's a real relationship at all. Im looking at both sides. As you said yourself he lives in a dysfunctional family life, then its not a lovely home life is it. And if he has somewhere else to go, why does he keep coming back to me saying he does not want anyone else. He has told me he wants to build on this and start respecting me and treating me like a lady which probably means maybe he wants to leave. You have a different eye on this . What do you say then about people who do end up in happy relationships with people who are married or divorced. These people started seeing these men when they were married and I have a friend who has done just that and ended up being happy with her boyfriend who has now left his marriage. She saw him for a long time while he was still living with his wife. If you had said to her what you have said here then you would have been wrong would you not?? It does work out for some, do you not agree??

Im not trying to justify, just to look on both sides of which there are and many people just dont seem to want to see that. There are many people who say they stay in a marriage for their kids sake and do not want to cause an upheaval??, yes??? im sure even you have heard people say this???. Why do people just seem to want to deny that people can and do stay in an unhappy home for different reasons. Many people stay for years in marriages that have gone sour.


I think you raised this same issue and there was an entire conversation about it some posts ago -

I never said i thought it had any future, although i would if he wanted. Im not going around thinking its a real relationship at all. Im looking at both sides. As you said yourself he lives in a dysfunctional family life, then its not a lovely home life is it. And if he has somewhere else to go, why does he keep coming back to me saying he does not want anyone else. He has told me he wants to build on this and start respecting me and treating me like a lady which probably means maybe he wants to leave. You have a different eye on this . What do you say then about people who do end up in happy relationships with people who are married or divorced. These people started seeing these men when they were married and i have a friend who has done just that and ended up being happy with her boyfriend who has now left his marriage. She saw him fo a long time while he was still living with his wife. If you had said to her what you have said here then you would have been wrong would you not???. It does work out for some, do you not agree???.



Quite frankly, he comes back because he can, you don't ask him to take out the garbage, he can complain to you and not be judged (obviously), you think he's the sun and the moon. And, for all I know, the sex is easy and good.

I'm also a little bit tired of hearing about your one friend who stabbed another woman in the heart in order to get that woman's husband. She's happy with him as her boyfriend? I note the word "husband" does not appear.

And to the mods - this is many, many posts into the same question. The same old ground is bring covered again - time to close?

I never said I thought it had any future, although I would if he wanted. Im not going around thinking it's a real relationship at all. Im looking at both sides. As you said yourself he lives in a dysfunctional family life, then its not a lovely home life is it. And if he has somewhere else to go, why does he keep coming back to me saying he does not want anyone else. He has told me he wants to build on this and start respecting me and treating me like a lady which probably means maybe he wants to leave. You have a different eye on this . What do you say then about people who do end up in happy relationships with people who are married or divorced. These people started seeing these men when they were married and I have a friend who has done just that and ended up being happy with her boyfriend who has now left his marriage. She saw him for a long time while he was still living with his wife. If you had said to her what you have said here then you would have been wrong would you not?? It does work out for some, do you not agree??

If you or them were so happy then what are you doing asking for help and advice for? Look around, do you see any "I am so happy post" here No!! And do you honestly think people will condone cheating, lying, and deceit? You call me wrong, but you must be crazy if you think I will condone you being WRONG!!

If you are happy cheating, then keep doing it, if you are happy with the crap the way it is, enjoy it and stop trying to get people to agree with what you are doing.

I have a life I am happy with and lying and cheating is not a part of it. If you and your friends are happy with what you have I am happy for you, but you and your friends have life and BS ALL mixed up! Just my opinion, and understand your friends haven't posted here, YOU have, and I bet he doesn't leave his wife, and if you try and make him, he will just get another chick on the side.

Hey it may work for a few to find happiness as a mistress, but few make it as a wife from a mistress. If you do, more power
To you. Let me know how it works for you.


He seems like he's trying to push me away one minute and cannot wait to see me the next. Do you think this sort of man I have described would be seeing someone else apart from me? I need advice as I love him and want to know if he has feelings for me. Thanks.

What else would you expect when you share a guy with his wife and family? Sometimes he doesn't have time for you. You want to wait until he gets a divorce then WAIT! If he will cheat on his wife, he will cheat on you if you make this too hard for him. What part do you not understand??

I started to read this thread, but stopped when it was obvious that the OP wasn't willing to listen. So, if I repeat anything that's already been said, I apologize.

I do want to point out something. You asked, in the beginning of this thread, if he was seeing someone else. You seemed to be worried about that. Worried that he might be "cheating" on you.

I find that amusing. He's cheating on his wife with you, he's had other girls on the side before you, and you wonder if he's seeing someone else? Duh! Why wouldn't he? Do you think you're so special that he wouldn't cheat on you? He's nothing but a cheater.

You get what you give. When you start screwing around with a married man, and really, that's all your relationship is, sex, and you know he's screwed around before, then do you really expect him to be faithful to you? Has he lied that well? I see through his lies, why can't you?

Bottom line, you are the other woman. You stepped into something you had no right to step into. Yes, he's scum, a pig, but you're no better. When you lie with pigs... well, figure it out.

There are two sides, it works out for some , not for others. This has gone on too far from me just getting an answer to what I asked. Im not saying its going to work at all for me, People just do NOT WANT TO SEE it can WORK OUT OK?? what part of that don't some understand?? A single man is just as likely to cheat as a married one so don't tar all married men with the same brush. If I was seeing a single man all the same advice would apply. AS SOON AS ANYONE MENTIONS MARRIED ITS ALL SO DIFFERENT. Relationships CAN work out whether the person was married or single.

Let us know how it works out for you.