My wife and I have a good relationship over all. When we first started chatting online she was flirty and joked about sex a lot, but when we actually HAD sex, it was OK, not wild or crazy, but OK. She did do a little oral (both giving and recieving) at first, and I am pretty sure even then I never got her off, but she never let me do it for very long, she always just asked me to go inside her and have intercourse. I figured she would open up as she trusted me more but the opposite has been true. Any time I wanted to talk "ABOUT" sex, she never seemed to want to go into detail as far as what we did, how we did it, what gets her off, etc.

Once we got married in 2007, she stopped doing anything but missionary but at least we still did it a few times a week. She started around this time also not letting me go down on her at all, in fact she would hold her legs together, still smiling the whole time, but as if she was just not willing to let me go down there. We have 2 kids now and the frequency of sex is maybe once every 6 weeks, and when we try a kid almost always wakes up crying. That part I get, the mood isn't there and is a contributing factor, but since she has always been somewhat like this, there's something else going on.

Even if I try to finger her a bit she does the same thing. When I ask her about it she just doesn't respond or changes the subject, or says she is tired, etc. This is definitely possible with having 2 kids these days but even before kids she was like this. It has just gotten worse though.

I admit I don't last that long, but I last a LOT longer with her on top, up to 15 - 20 minutes, yet, she refuses to get on top, she only wants to do missionary, which is the position I climax the fastest in, usually just a few minutes. She never complains but never wants to change positions. When I ask she says "oh its fine" and that's the end of it.

I cannot believe she is actually satisfied with our sex life so I have a few ideas:

1. She only has sex to keep me happy and has no real desire, therefore not having an orgasm is no big deal, and she IS satisfied as a result.

2. She never has had an orgasm with anyone and is embarrassed, and/or has never been creative enough to try other methods to get off.

3. She has had an orgasm with other guys but not me and is afraid to tell me.

4. She is overweight as am I - perhaps uncomfortable with her body, but I think she is beautiful and sexy, and I tell her that often.

5. She has been taught that sex is dirty. Her parents aren't the Victorian type but maybe that was ingrained in her.

6. For the oral thing maybe she is worried she smells bad or tastes bad (she doesnt). She has only done it to me a couple times and while I would love for her to do it again, if I can handle the other stuff we can revisit that later on.

We have been married 5 years so we should be beyond this point, and I do truly love her and have no intention of leaving.

How do I get her to communicate? My only thought was to start maybe trying to set the mood better - go the extra mile with housework, take the kids and let her go to bed early, surprise her with a date night, etc, just to set the overall mood. THEN see if she is ANY more responsive than she has been.

Next step, but I don't know the best way to flat out say: I know I am not getting you off and want to try to make it better for you.

I don't think its an issue of her not wanting me around anymore, I do participate in child care and housework, etc, although it seems nothing gets done.

I think there are 2 issues - she isn't that sexual to start with but also its hard to be in the mood with kids, work, chores, etc. That part I get, and I plan to do more to make sure she feels appreciated, although I do a lot already - I help with the kids, the house, etc.

It's more the fact that she was never all that into it, and her lack of willingness to discuss it that bothers me. If she doesn't want to tell me what is going on I will just make assumptions and those are probably worse than the truth!

It could be me that is the problem, but I won't know if she won't tell me. Plus other women I was with I had no issue bringing to orgasm one way or another.

What should I do?

I hope I haven't been too graphic here but I want to make my point.

A very large group of women do not like "oral" sex, yes guys will not believe it, but they will do it to a guy but not want a guy to do it to them. You should respect how she does or does not want sex.

Do you ever try to talk about it, when you are not in bed ?

Also always wake the kids ? Do you shout and yell, Sorry parents have been having sex in the other room for 1000 years.

It is time for a counselor, not because of the lack of sex, but because of the lack of ability to talk about it.

Thanks, Fr Chuck.

To address your points:

If she doesn't like oral, fine, she needs to say it and tell me what she does like. Granted, she won't do it to me, either.

We haven't tried much to talk outside of the bedroom since the kids are always around otherwise. I guess I could try when sex is definitely not happening that night for whatever reason.

WE don't wake the kids. We have a 9 month old and it seems like Murphy's Law that he wakes up crying EVERY TIME WE TRY lately. It's just bad luck.

I posted this in the Relationships board but this might be a better place for it.

My wife and I have a good relationship over all. When we first started chatting online she was flirty and joked about sex a lot, but when we actually HAD sex, it was OK, not wild or crazy, but OK. She did do a little oral (both giving and recieving) at first, and I am pretty sure even then I never got her off, but she never let me do it for very long, she always just asked me to go inside her and have intercourse. I figured she would open up as she trusted me more but the opposite has been true. Any time I wanted to talk "ABOUT" sex, she never seemed to want to go into detail as far as what we did, how we did it, what gets her off, etc.

Once we got married in 2007, she stopped doing anything but missionary but at least we still did it a few times a week. She started around this time also not letting me go down on her at all, in fact she would hold her legs together, still smiling the whole time, but as if she was just not willing to let me go down there. We have 2 kids now and the frequency of sex is maybe once every 6 weeks, and when we try a kid almost always wakes up crying. That part I get, the mood isn't there and is a contributing factor, but since she has always been somewhat like this, there's something else going on.

Even if I try to finger her a bit she does the same thing. When I ask her about it she just doesn't respond or changes the subject, or says she is tired, etc. This is definitely possible with having 2 kids these days but even before kids she was like this. It has just gotten worse though.

I admit I don't last that long, but I last a LOT longer with her on top, up to 15 - 20 minutes, yet, she refuses to get on top, she only wants to do missionary, which is the position I climax the fastest in, usually just a few minutes. She never complains but never wants to change positions. When I ask she says "oh its fine" and that's the end of it.

I cannot believe she is actually satisfied with our sex life so I have a few ideas:

1. She only has sex to keep me happy and has no real desire, therefore not having an orgasm is no big deal, and she IS satisfied as a result.

2. She never has had an orgasm with anyone and is embarrassed, and/or has never been creative enough to try other methods to get off.

3. She has had an orgasm with other guys but not me and is afraid to tell me.

4. She is overweight as am I - perhaps uncomfortable with her body, but I think she is beautiful and sexy, and I tell her that often.

5. She has been taught that sex is dirty. Her parents aren't the Victorian type but maybe that was ingrained in her.

6. For the oral thing maybe she is worried she smells bad or tastes bad (she doesnt). She has only done it to me a couple times and while I would love for her to do it again, if I can handle the other stuff we can revisit that later on. If she truly dislikes receiving oral she should just say so and explain why, and what instead I can do to get her to orgasm.

We have been married 5 years so we should be beyond this point, and I do truly love her and have no intention of leaving her, it's nothing like that! I just really want her to enjoy sex too and I get the impression that she doesn't.

How do I get her to communicate? My only thought was to start maybe trying to set the mood better - go the extra mile with housework, take the kids and let her go to bed early, surprise her with a date night, etc, just to set the overall mood. THEN see if she is ANY more responsive than she has been.

Next step, but I don't know the best way to flat out say: "I know I am not getting you off and want to try to make it better for you." Is it too blunt to say something like "baby, I just want to ask you something. I want to make sure that when we have sex, it's as good for you as it is for me, so, can you tell me something? Have you ever had an orgasm with me? I don't think you have, and want to see if I can change that."

I've tried starting such conversations before, and she doesn't really answer it, she just says "it's fine honey" and seems uncomfortable.

I don't think its an issue of her not wanting me around anymore, I do participate in child care and housework, etc, although it seems nothing gets done.

I think there are 2 issues - she isn't that sexual to start with but also its hard to be in the mood with kids, work, chores, etc. That part I get, and I plan to do more to make sure she feels appreciated, although I do a lot already - I help with the kids, the house, etc.

It's more the fact that she was never all that into it, and her lack of willingness to discuss it that bothers me. If she doesn't want to tell me what is going on I will just make assumptions and those are probably worse than the truth!

Frequency wise, sure, I'd love to have it a few times a week but that's less important than me getting to the bottom of where she stands on things, her wants, her needs, her desires, even if she has little to none, because at least there will be a point of understanding. Right now, all I have are my assumptions.

It could be me that is the problem, but I won't know if she won't tell me. Plus other women I was with I had no issue bringing to orgasm one way or another.

What should I do?

I hope I haven't been too graphic here but I want to make my point.

I just wrote a lengthy answer, tried to post it - poof! The thread had been moved.

Here's the shorter version. You can't make anybody do anything they don't want to do and that includes enjoying sex. Any friend of mine who has ever commented about not liking certain positions has stated it's a weight issue - "on top" she's at an unflattering angle, same with oral.

She presumably sees her OB/GYN once a year (or more). That's the person she should be asking - but how you ask her to do so remains a problem.

Was the sex in the beginning a "front" because you weren't married and she was trying to remain in the relationship, afraid you'd leave if she refused?

Has she ever been sexually assaulted? I was the adult victim of rape, and I do - on occasion - have flashbacks.

I just wrote a lengthy answer, tried to post it - poof! The thread had been moved.

Here's the shorter version. You can't make anybody do anything they don't want to do and that includes enjoying sex. Any friend of mine who has ever commented about not liking certain positions has stated it's a weight issue - "on top" she's at an unflattering angle, same with oral.

She presumably sees her OB/GYN once a year (or more). That's the person she should be asking - but how you ask her to do so remains a problem.

Was the sex in the beginning a "front" because you weren't married and she was trying to remain in the relationship, afraid you'd leave if she refused?

Has she ever been sexually assaulted? I was the adult victim of rape, and I do - on occasion - have flashbacks.

I'm not aware that she has been a victim of assault. She has had issues with depression before.

I'm not sure the sex was a front or not. We were long-distance and saw each other about once every week or two, so we ripped each others' clothes off and she initiated at times as well, I think the distance built the tension, plus, all the excitement of a new relationship and all.

That part I get - I know that after a while it won't be as often as it was before. It's not even the frequency, it's the attitude.

The one part of her BRAIN (not body) I can't get into is her sexual part. What does she desire? What does she like and not like? Am I missing something?

Even if it's just that she doesn't enjoy it, fine. TELL ME! And, is it something completely unfixable? I can live with that if that must be, I might go through a lot of lotion but hey.

I wonder if it's a combination of not enjoying it much + being embarrassed to explore her body/mind more. Meaning, she may never have had an orgasm, because she's been to embarrassed or inhibited to try what is necessary to get there. There is as much a chance of that as having no drive at all, which I realize there are a few people out there for whom that is true.

This is a woman with a professional job, highly intelligent and educated, and outspoken on issues like politics, news, etc, but she can't talk about sex! What gives?

Your wife actually sounds a lot like me. I've had this problem with guys in the past, and I believe it to be the major reason I don't stay in a relationship for very long. In my case, a lot of the issue is the fact that 1) I've never had an orgasm myself, no matter who I've been with; and 2) Guys seem to take a really long time to orgasm. I enjoy sex--I even enjoy oral--but not for any length of time--not for nearly as long as it takes a guy to come. So I guess that if I knew of a sure fire way to bring a guy off quick, I'd be lapping that up, too. It would make me feel like less of a failure than if I either can't bring him off or am bored with it halfway though, and since I can't get off for whatever reason, it's a win-win because I don't have to deal with my own issues. And I've never been able to talk to my partner about it, either. Who really wants to say to their spouse, "Honey, I want you to be sexually satisfied, but hurry up and get it over with!" ?

This is a woman with a professional job, highly intelligent and educated, and outspoken on issues like politics, news, etc, but she can't talk about sex! What gives?


I don't think there's much of a connection between being highly intelligent and educated, outspoken, and professional and expressing yourself sexually.

And, again - ask her. Have you told her that you feel frustrated (or whatever you feel) without being accusatory?

She has 2 small children and works full time?

Yes we have 2 kids and both work. In fact she makes CONSIDERABLY more money than me, so she's the primary breadwinner at the moment. I do think (and she confirms) that I do a fair share of things around the house, although, admittedly, we BOTH seem to fail at keeping things under control as far as laundry, cleaning etc.

Now here was another thought: I want to surprise her with a date night. Not for the expectation of sex at all, I mean, if it happens great, but just to give her a night to enjoy "us".

If I want to try to encourage her to talk about this, should I do it now, like tonight, or maybe try to romance her more than usual, make her feel a bit better about things, and THEN bring it up?

Obviously, in either situation, I won't try to do it WHILE we're having sex, or just before/after.

I wonder if she doesn't even realize how I feel about it.

Your wife actually sounds a lot like me. I've had this problem with guys in the past, and I believe it to be the major reason I don't stay in a relationship for very long. In my case, a lot of the issue is the fact that 1) I've never had an orgasm myself, no matter who I've been with; and 2) Guys seem to take a really long time to orgasm. I enjoy sex--I even enjoy oral--but not for any length of time--not for nearly as long as it takes a guy to come. So I guess that if I knew of a sure fire way to bring a guy off quick, I'd be lapping that up, too. It would make me feel like less of a failure than if I either can't bring him off or am bored with it halfway though, and since I can't get off for whatever reason, it's a win-win because I don't have to deal with my own issues. And I've never been able to talk to my partner about it, either. Who really wants to say to their spouse, "Honey, I want you to be sexually satisfied, but hurry up and get it over with!" ?

I actually orgasm much more quickly than I'd like.

What I wonder and also want to ask my wife, is have you ever had an orgasm by masturbating? Have you even tried?

Working with two small children, even with you helping? I'd be exhausted, and if she is the primary breadwinner she has a lot of responsibility on her plate.

A date night? I'd tell her you would like to give her a day/evening/afternoon "off." Would she like to go out by herself, meet a friend for lunch (or something), go out to a special dinner with you, stay home?

A date night when she's exhausted may not be what she needs/wants.

When do you discuss other problems? My husband and I are "good" at sitting at the kichen table, coffee in front of us, after dinner. Even better if it's nice out on the deck after dinner.

Back in the day I dated a lot - I was married, divorced, married, widowed, re-married. Interesting dating life. At any rate the most aggravating thing a man could ever do as far as I was concerned was ask - or, even worse, CONTINUE to ask, if I was satisified, if he could do something else to make sex better for me, was I satisified? Could he do anything else? Was I satisifed? I don't know if it's male ego (and I'm not saying this is your problem) but I was fine, absolutely fine. I didn't expect my head to spin around like I was possessed every time. Nagging about sex can ruin the mood.

Working with two small children, even with you helping? I'd be exhausted, and if she is the primary breadwinner she has a lot of responsibility on her plate.

A date night? I'd tell her you would like to give her a day/evening/afternoon "off." Would she like to go out by herself, meet a friend for lunch (or something), go out to a special dinner with you, stay home?

A date night when she's exhausted may not be what she needs/wants.

When do you discuss other problems? My husband and I are "good" at sitting at the kichen table, coffee in front of us, after dinner. Even better if it's nice out on the deck after dinner.

Back in the day I dated a lot - I was married, divorced, married, widowed, re-married. Interesting dating life. At any rate the most aggravating thing a man could ever do as far as I was concerned was ask - or, even worse, CONTINUE to ask, if I was satisified, if he could do something else to make sex better for me, was I satisified? Could he do anything else? Was I satisifed? I don't know if it's male ego (and I'm not saying this is your problem) but I was fine, absolutely fine. I didn't expect my head to spin around like I was possessed each and every time. Nagging about sex can ruin the mood.

We usually talk while folding laundry. Sitting on our bed. Since its usually well after 9 by the time both kids are asleep.

The nagging I get. However, I don't believe her. She gives me NO feedback except "it's fine".

Do you orgasm at least some of the time? I wouldn't expect head spinning either, but I really don't think she ever has. If she simply cannot as some women cannot, she at least should tell me, right?

The ego thing? Well its worse for my ego to keep guessing than hear the truth.

The exhaustion thing? Oh, I get that. Hell *I* sometimes am too tired!

I just mean even before kids, she never really opened up to me and told me what she likes, doesn't like etc. It's almost as if sex is a duty for her. She doesn't even seem to enjoy kissing or cuddling. She loves when I rub her back or feet and all that.

Also, she never touches ME. Not at any time during the act does she touch my genitals, or stroke my chest, or anything at all. She used to a little, but even back then, not a lot.

As far as the date night thing, I might ask her something like "if you could have a night off, and could choose dinner with me, a night with the girls, or a massage or something, what would you do? And please, I won't be offended if its not me, because I want to know what YOU want."

Would that work? I don't want to ruin the "surprise" if she actually would want the date night.

How old is the oldest child?

If she has a history of Depression, then she may be going through it again especially with pregnancy and childbirth. Depression can destroy a person's libido even if there aren't any other factors. She needs to talk to her doctor.

She may be self-conscious about her weight. She may be experiencing difficulties that she hasn't admitted to herself. 'On Top' may put a strain on her hips or other parts of her body. It may not be her weight that is causing issues with her being on top. If you are also over-weight then it could be the way your bodies fit together.

Yes, she can be satisfied with sex even without having an orgasm. If you are intent on giving her one, then that pressure might be causing some of your problems.

Do you show her affection and attention at times when sex is nowhere near a possibility? Do you do little things like say 'I love you' for no reason other than you feel it or give her a quick hug just to feel her body next to yours without any expectations?

She may not want to talk about sex for a variety of reasons. One, timing. Two, feeling self-conscious about her body and what she is afraid you might say. Three, mentally she may know you need to talk, but emotionally she may be shutting down and she may not know why. She may not want to hurt your feelings.

If she can't verbalize what is wrong or what she thinks, ask her to write it down. Ask her if she would feel more comfortable with a Marriage Counselor guiding the discussion.

Honestly, I don't know when we'd have TIME for a counselor. We cannot find a babysitter outside our normal daycare 99% of the time... I had to pull teeth to line one up for the potential date night. However, if its needed, we'll figure it out.

I know her hips hurt a lot since the baby. As I said, PART of the issue I'm sure is that, but the other part has been around a lot longer than the kids have.

Perhaps the first stage is to try to alleviate the stress and the pain issues she is having. Then we can look at the rest of the details. Does that make sense?

Our oldest is 3 by the way, the baby is 9 months.

I do say "I love you" to her and hug her. A lot. Maybe too much.

I bought her flowers yesterday "just because". Half the time she falls asleep while I'm putting our son to bed, so I go downstairs and finish cleaning up from dinner (since that never seems to get done before the kids' bathtime and bedtime) and whatever else I can finish before I need to get to bed.

I'd love to give her an orgasm, but I know that women can be satisfied without one. That said most women want one at least sometimes! I'd at least like to know her thoughts on it such as:

-has she ever had one with me? At all?
-does she want one?
-is there something she'd like me to do to make it happen at least once in a while?
-can I have some clues as to what/when etc?

If she has truly never had one, then I want to know if she's tried a lot of different things. If so, maybe she never will, and that's what it is. I just want to know! I'm her husband, not some stranger off the street, I think I should know these things.

As far as weight, both her and I are close to 100 lbs over our ideal weight and trying to lose. We were both about the same size when we met as we are now, she might actually be a bit under and I think I'm a bit over but not by much. We've both lost about 10 lbs since starting to try.

Now here was another thought: I want to surprise her with a date night. Not for the expectation of sex at all, I mean, if it happens great, but just to give her a night to enjoy "us".
Back in the day when my husband and I both worked full time and had two small children, we set it up so I had one evening a week for myself and he stayed home, then he got his night out and I was at home, and one night a week we got a sitter and went out to dinner or a movie or the mall or whatever.

You could work out something like that maybe? And like Judy said, stop asking her about her sexual experience with you and what she wants (or what you think she might want or what you think she SHOULD want).

Back in the day when my husband and I both worked full time and had two small children, we set it up so I had one evening a week for myself and he stayed home, then he got his night out and I was at home, and one night a week we got a sitter and went out to dinner or a movie or the mall or whatever.

You could work out something like that maybe? And like Judy said, stop asking her about her sexual experience with you and what she wants (or what you think she might want or what you think she SHOULD want).

For the first part - three nights a week of that would be tough to arrange, but three per month could work. We're hundreds of miles from family, so its hard to find a sitter.

For the second part about her sexual satisfaction - The reason I have trouble with this is that I've heard of plenty of sexually frustrated women that just SNAP and have an affair after years of dissatisfaction, all the while all they had to do was TALK to their husbands about it.

Am I really supposed to just put up with once every six weeks sex she obviously is only doing to shut me up? I think I should at least be able to pick her brain somehow and find out more.

I can't imagine that its healthy to just never talk to your partner about their sexual feelings and such.

She might say "it's fine" and mean it. She might just be trying to avoid conflict. That's what I don't know. Or, perhaps she hasn't tried new things so she thinks that's as good as it gets, when it might not be.

For the first part - three nights a week of that would be tough to arrange, but three per month could work. We're hundreds of miles from family, so its hard to find a sitter.
Work out whatever arrangement suits the two of you. Our sitter was a teen girl who lived nearby.

For the second part about her sexual satisfaction - The reason I have trouble with this is that I've heard of plenty of sexually frustrated women that just SNAP and have an affair after years of dissatisfaction, all the while all they had to do was TALK to their husbands about it.
I'M ready to snap after reading all your questions and comments about her "missing" sexual satisfaction.

Am I really supposed to just put up with once every six weeks sex she obviously is only doing to shut me up? I think I should at least be able to pick her brain somehow and find out more.
My advice is go to a counselor and talk about this with him/her. Along the way, your wife may be invited to a session (not to be pinned to the wall, but to give you some closure or mental relief). I'm getting the feeling this is all about you, not her (but if I'm wrong, please tell me). MANY women seldom or maybe even never have an orgasm during sex. As for your sexual satisfaction, that's what the counselor will help you with (not personally :), but will talk this through with you).

OK, game shift a little.

I want to try positions that we haven't, like doggystyle for example. I have been afraid to mention it to her since she is so unwilling to talk even about the basic stuff.

Instead of the nagging "are you sure this is good for you" what if I shift gears and ask " have you ever tried or thought about trying XXXXXX?"

My concern is she'll think I'm a sick bastard. That's why I want to get her deeper thoughts first.

I really could easily do without either of the above, but still, it would be fun.

Work out whatever arrangement suits the two of you. Our sitter was a teen girl who lived nearby.

I'M ready to snap after reading all your questions and comments about her "missing" sexual satisfaction.

My advice is go to a counselor and talk about this with him/her. Along the way, your wife may be invited to a session (not to be pinned to the wall, but to give you some closure or mental relief). I'm getting the feeling this is all about you, not her (but if I'm wrong, please tell me). MANY women seldom or maybe even never have an orgasm during sex. As for your sexual satisfaction, that's what the counselor will help you with (not personally :), but will talk this through with you).

Your advice seems quite contrary. Everyone else says I should talk to her, you're basically saying I shouldn't. This confuses me. I thought I was being a GOOD guy for being concerned that she was satisfied!

So basically, you're saying, bluntly: Take her word for it, and if she's lying, it's her problem?

Maybe I do have a problem, I'll admit that as well.

Thank you though. :)

What about spoon style? Doggy style is a little vigorous and maybe too adventurous if she doesn't even want to be on top.

Your advice seems quite contrary. Everyone else says I should talk to her, you're basically saying I shouldn't. This confuses me. I thought I was being a GOOD guy for being concerned that she was satisfied!!

No, I said go to a counselor and get your head on straight before you bring this up with your wife. Your wife will probably be invited to at least one session, and the two of you can discuss this with a unbiased person guiding the discussion.

I'm beginning to feel like you are TOO concerned about your wife's satisfaction and that is putting her off, so the counselor would discuss with you how best to approach your wife.

I agree with Wondergirl, but I'll go a step farther. You are WAY too concerned with her level of satisfaction. You asked her if things are okay in the sex department. She said they are. You don't think so.

Me? I'd believe her.

Now we've gone from one topic to how to suggest doggy style.

People who post here very often have different opinions based on their own experience, education, profession.

Your wife is a lot nicer than I would be. I'd be sick of hearing about MY orgasms (or lack thereof) and I'd make sure you knew. In fact, I would be very reluctant to have sex with you because I would not look forward to the play-by-play that follows.

Let me clarify something, I do not ask every time, or give a play by play. In fact, I haven't asked in a while. Many months.

OK. Assume she is telling the truth. Should I just be satisfied with not knowing if she ever has had or could have an orgasm?

I can accept that but I hate not knowing.

OK. Assume she is telling the truth. Should I just be satisfied with not knowing if she ever has had or could have an orgasm?

I can accept that but I hate not knowing.
What about both of you making a weight-loss effort together? With working, small kids, AND being overweight, sex is probably not at the top of her list of fun things to do.

What about sensate focus? -- cuddling or a neck/shoulder massage or a quick hug or a fistful of flowers (unless you have flower-eating cats like I do) or holding her hand or writing her a note to tell her how much you value her or putting a "you are the adhesive on my sticky note" colored Post-It where she will find it easily (on her car's dashboard or on the bathroom mirror, etc.) -- like, be sort of romantic.

What about both of you making a weight-loss effort together? With working, small kids, AND being overweight, sex is probably not at the top of her list of fun things to do.

What about sensate focus? -- cuddling or a neck/shoulder massage or a quick hug or a fistful of flowers (unless you have flower-eating cats like I do) or holding her hand or writing her a note to tell her how much you value her or putting a "you are the adhesive on my sticky note" colored Post-It where she will find it easily (on her car's dashboard or on the bathroom mirror, etc.) -- like, be sort of romantic.

I am doing the romantic stuff more often.

We are also working on weight loss together.

When/how can I ask about the other questions I have, lime, why she won't touch me at all when we have sex, and why she closes her legs when I try to put my hand there, when she never used to?

I assume now she doesn't want to, but why? Esp. the first one, that hurts me personally. Could it be partly that she really just isn't in the mood? Should I just let it go and see if, down the road when sex is something she seems more interested in, and see if she still does it?

Put the kids in a safe place. No more wondering, no more caution, no more questions. Tell your wife you want to have sex with her right now…passionate, spontaneous, crazy, fun, multiple positions, wild wet sex! Tell her you will race her to the bedroom and the last one there has to eat whipped cream off the other one's body part of choice! She's either going to think you have lost your mind or maybe she will shock the hell out of you and beat you to the bedroom first! Happy Sex!

When dealing with yourself…use your head, when dealing with others…use your heart.

What about both of you making a weight-loss effort together? With working, small kids, AND being overweight, sex is probably not at the top of her list of fun things to do.

What about sensate focus? -- cuddling or a neck/shoulder massage or a quick hug or a fistful of flowers (unless you have flower-eating cats like I do) or holding her hand or writing her a note to tell her how much you value her or putting a "you are the adhesive on my sticky note" colored Post-It where she will find it easily (on her car's dashboard or on the bathroom mirror, etc.) -- like, be sort of romantic.

I give her nightly stress of the day relief backrubs. She rarely returns the favor.

She moans lightly (in brief interludes, not constantly) when I rub her back, but not during sex. That makes me think t feels far better to her than sex does.

Maybe it does.

Put the kids in a safe place. No more wondering, no more caution, no more questions. Tell your wife you want to have sex with her right now…passionate, spontaneous, crazy, fun, multiple positions, wild wet sex! Tell her you will race her to the bedroom and the last one there has to eat whipped cream off the other one’s body part of choice! She’s either gonna think you have lost your mind or maybe she will shock the hell out of you and beat you to the bedroom first! Happy Sex!

When dealing with yourself…use your head, when dealing with others…use your heart.

I am pretty sure if I did that, I would be sitting in the bedroom with a can of whipped cream, while she called 911 because I obviously went nuts.

Can you not ask for sex for a while (without dying) and instead do the sensate focusing and romantic stuff and don't talk about sex AND continue to help with the kids and the household stuff -- try for two weeks and see where that takes you (and report back). And oh, find a counselor.

And if she moans when you massage her but not during sex, maybe your technique needs tweaking? At the library, the sex books are at 612.6 :). (I was a librarian for 30 years.)

I am pretty sure if I did that, I would be sitting in the bedroom with a can of whipped cream, while she called 911 because I obviously went nuts.

Well at least you have a sense of humor... You crack me up! ;-)

Can you not ask for sex for a while (without dying) and instead do the sensate focusing and romantic stuff and don't talk about sex AND continue to help with the kids and the household stuff -- try for two weeks and see where that takes you (and report back). And oh, find a counselor.

And if she moans when you massage her but not during sex, maybe your technique needs tweaking? At the library, the sex books are at 612.6 :). (I was a librarian for 30 years.)

I'm not sure when I could see a counselor. Would I tell my wife I am seeing one? I work 45 hour weeks as it is.

I was thinking about what you said... just stop mentioning sex for a while. I briefly worried she would think I was no longer attracted to her. I assume if I do that, just doing it is heterosexual than telling her I will stop asking about sex, right?

I know techniques, and have "gotten off" past women before her, but they require her participation, which she seems unwilling to do. That said, I have never come out and said "hey babe, wanna try XXXXX"? I guess I just assume she won't be up for it, since I already know oral is out.

I'm not sure when I could see a counselor. Would I tell my wife I am seeing one? I work 45 hour weeks as it is.
Try the two weeks thing that I mentioned. I'll push you into counseling if that doesn't work :). (I'm a counselor too.)

I was thinking about what you said... just stop mentioning sex for a while. I briefly worried she would think I was no longer attracted to her. I assume if I do that, just doing it is heterosexual than telling her I will stop asking about sex, right?
If you are being romantic now and then and talk with her about the house and kids and play with the kids and help around the house and wash the cars and mow the grass and hold her hand once in a while, she won't feel neglected.

My spidey senses are starting to tingle - someone is getting a kick out of this thread. That person is not me.

My spidey senses are starting to tingle - someone is getting a kick out of this thread. That person is not me.

What is that supposed to mean?

Try the two weeks thing that I mentioned. I'll push you into counseling if that doesn't work :). (I'm a counselor too.)

If you are being romantic now and then and talk with her about the house and kids and play with the kids and help around the house and wash the cars and mow the grass and hold her hand once in a while, she won't feel neglected.

Sounds like a plan. I'll try it.

How 'bout my response on techniques?

Which techniques?

Which techniques?

The library recommedation, and the fact I don't think she will respond positively to it.

And if she moans when you massage her but not during sex, maybe your technique needs tweaking? At the library, the sex books are at 612.6 :). (I was a librarian for 30 years.)

I don't think she would respond well to this, but I have never directly asked "how about we try XXXX", since her overall attitude suggests she would object.

I'm not saying "Suggest to her so-and-so." I'm wondering how she's accepting what you do (thus the counseling with both of you in the room). I've been kissed by a few guys, and kissing technique varies from soup to nuts. I never wanted to kiss some of them ever again Others I would have kissed 24/7.

What is that supposed to mean?


It means that you're an adult with a lot of questions about how to handle your sex life with your wife - looking quickly it looks like 27 times in less than 12 hours. Don't you work?

Very often people post because they get a thrill out of it.

A counseling session is 50 minutes once or twice a week.

It means that you're an adult with a lot of questions about how to handle your sex life with your wife - looking quickly it looks like 27 times in less than 12 hours. Don't you work?

Very often people post because they get a thrill out of it.

Yes, I work. I also have a lot of time on hold on the phone at work when I post.

I'm not saying "Suggest to her so-and-so." I'm wondering how she's accepting what you do (thus the counseling with both of you in the room). I've been kissed by a few guys, and kissing technique varies from soup to nuts. I never wanted to kiss some of them ever again Others I would have kissed 24/7.

Ok... but I'm not sure how many ways one can vary their technique in one sexual position. I am still not sure what you mean by her "accepting what I do" unless you mean I could be better at missionary or at kissing her, etc. She isn't a particularly great kisser, either, and I *have* tried varying that. She doesn't seem to get into it and backs off after 10-20 seconds most times. Always has. She says I kiss fine and my breath is fine, etc. She never says anything is "good" or "great" just "fine".

Foreplay? Afterwards?

Foreplay? Afterwards?

Possibly. Foreplay is basically me doing things to her... massages, kissing, etc. Lately she doesn't seem interested in much else.

After usually consists lately of getting the crying baby out of his crib. His timing [ed.] has been impeccable, haha.

Perhaps it's the pressure of knowing I expect sex. Although I give her plenty of romance and sensuality without expecting or asking for sex.
The two week thing might work.

Damn autocorrect on my Android changed "timing" to "uninterested" in my last post for some reason.

Possibly. Foreplay is basically me doing things to her...massages, kissing, etc. Lately she doesn't seem interested in much else.
Foreplay takes place beginning at least 8 hours before sex and involves you playing with her mind.

Do what you do, but don't end up having sex.

Foreplay takes place beginning at least 8 hours before sex and involves you playing with her mind.

Do what you do, but don't end up having sex.

I admit I don't know much about all day foreplay, it seems to basically fall into either sexting or things like coming up behind her, giving a hug and quick massage, then moving on and doing something similar later.

Sexting? She would either think I am nuts, or be annoyed. Maybe... and air stress MAYBE, mild non explicitly innocent texting may work, and no sex afterward, but I don't know.

We did mild stuff that when we first met in 2007.

I do make sure to do the other stuff, like come up and gently rub her neck at various times of the day, do some housework, etc. but its all routine.

You need to read up on how a woman's mind works. Sexting isn't one of the ways. Library. 612.6.

You need to read up on how a woman's mind works. Sexting isn't one of the ways. Library. 612.6.

Well that was what the first few Google searches for "all day foreplay" turned up.

I'll try your suggestion.

You do have a library card?

You do have a library card?

Yes I do. I am already thinking about where to hide the book. :)

Yes I do. I am already thinking about where to hide the book. :)

Or books.

Why hide them?

Why hide them?

How will I explain why I have them if I am trying NOT to bring up sex for two weeks?

Reading a book isn't bringing up sex. In fact, you may want to read parts of it to her or ask her if such and such is really true.

Start with this one --

Title: Why men want sex and women need love : unraveling the simple truth /
Author(s): Pease, Barbara. Pease, Allan.
Publication: New York, NY : Broadway Books,
Year: 2009
Description: xi, 265 p. : ill. ; 21 cm.
Language: English

Contents: Sex on the brain -- Straight talk on sex and love -- What women really want -- What men really want -- Wanted: meaningful overnight relationship - casual sex -- Your place or mine? Affairs and cheating -- How to find the right partner(s) - the mating rating quiz -- Fifteen mysteries about men that women don't understand -- Twelve truths about women most men don't know -- Thirteen tactics that can improve your mating rating -- A happier future together?

Standard No: ISBN: 9780307591593; 030759159X LCCN: 2009-48565

Abstract: Will men and women ever see eye-to-eye about love and sex? How will relationships ever be rewarding if men only want to rush into bed and women want to rush to the altar? In this practical, witty and down-to-earth guide, couples experts Allan and Barbara Pease reveal the truth about how men and women can really get along. By translating science and cutting edge research into a powerful yet highly entertaining read, you'll learn how to find true happiness and compatibility with the opposite sex.

SUBJECT(S)
Descriptor: Sexual attraction. Interpersonal relations.
Note(s): Includes bibliographical references (p. [259]-265).
Class Descriptors: LC: BF692; Dewey: 302
Responsibility: Barbara & Allan Pease.
Vendor Info: YBP Library Services Brodart (YANK BROD) $14.99
Document Type: Book
Entry: 20091120
Update: 20120301
Accession No: OCLC: 419797074
Database: WorldCat

If your library doesn't own it, print out that WorldCat citation and be sure to mention the OCLC number at the bottom. Ask for an interlibrary loan.

OK, thanks Wondergirl. I truly do appreciate it!

I'm not sure how she'll react though... it seems that when I do anything that shows I am less than confident about myself or our relationship, it has a negative effect albeit a mild one--we never fight at all, sometimes have mild disagreements but never fight.

Read the book, don't hide it, tell her your online librarian recommended it, and go from there.

As a side note, and this might be somewhat relevant.

A couple posters mentioned this might be MY problem. Let me give you a quick history.

I couldn't get a date in high school to SAVE MY LIFE. At first, it was being too quiet, introverted, and lacking confidence.

Eventually I opened up some, but was still not "cool" - I knew it, I was odd looking, not part of the cool crowd, etc. I tried pretending to be confident but it didn't work, I think it just looked ridiculous, so girls either shot me down outright or "friend zoned" me. Aside from a girl I did some decent kissing with at 16, there wasn't much experience in the sexual or romantic arena.

In college I did a little better - finally at age 20 I had some sexual experience, fooled around, did some oral sex and manual stimulation with this one girl.

First long-term girlfriend was at age 22, she was 19 and more experienced. She said that she wished I could last longer with penetration but since I was good at oral and foreplay it worked out OK.

Second long term girlfriend ('01 - 03) belittled me all the time, even claimed her orgasms were never real (despite her turning red in the face and shaking her legs when she climaxed, something very hard to fake) and said I sucked in bed and was a "minute man". Despite the fact I could last a lot longer with her on top, she insisted that it was my problem and not her problem if I couldn't "use my d**k properly*.

Between here and girlfriend #3 I had a one night stand with a 41 year old woman that was something of a 19 second disaster if you get my drift.

Third long-term, ('03 - '05) we did everything but vaginal or anal sex. Otherwise seemed to do very well sexually, but had serious differences in lifestyle and values so it was doomed from the start.

My wife was my fourth long-term relationship. We started dating in '06.

All this history notwithstanding, I will take your suggestions and try them.

I like you :) (anybody who writes and spells as well as you do must be okay) and look forward to hearing more from you. I hope your library has this book on shelf.

I like you :) (anybody who writes and spells as well as you do must be okay) and look forward to hearing more from you. I hope your library has this book on shelf.

I will keep you posted.

And for what its worth, in my 30s I finally feel pretty confident and happy in most aspects of life... just working on this part a little bit.

I will keep you posted.

And for what its worth, in my 30s I finally feel pretty confident and happy in most aspects of life...just working on this part a little bit.
You're asking good questions and have come to a good site for input from some really great people. You'll be a winner in the end.

Back in the day I dated a lot - I was married, divorced, married, widowed, re-married. Interesting dating life. At any rate the most aggravating thing a man could ever do as far as I was concerned was ask - or, even worse, CONTINUE to ask, if I was satisified, if he could do something else to make sex better for me, was I satisified? Could he do anything else? Was I satisifed? I don't know if it's male ego (and I'm not saying this is your problem) but I was fine, absolutely fine. I didn't expect my head to spin around like I was possessed each and every time. Nagging about sex can ruin the mood.

First off, let me say that I AM taking your advice and Wondergirl's as well. I will not ask my wife for the time being about her satisfaction.

What I didn't point out yesterday, is that the issue with me, and probably the men you were with, was usage of the word "fine". Not "good" or "great" but "fine". I'm not saying I will continue to pester her with the question. I'm just explaining why I, and probably the men who you experienced this with, were not satisfied with the answer of "fine".

Fine can have a very positive meaning, such as "fine art" or "fine dining", or "that guy/girl is fine" (as in hot, attractive, etc).

Fine also can mean "adequate" or "Just OK" or maybe a little better than "mediocre".

In this context we would assume "fine" means "not bad enough to complain but not that great either".

If your friend went to a five-star restaurant 60 miles away, and you asked her how it was, and she said "great" - you might be likely to make the drive out there one night for dinner. If she said it was "fine" - you probably would be more hesitant. If she said "fine" that would imply that yeah, it tasted decent, and was edible, and certainly not "bad" but wasn't good enough to be called "good" or "great".

If you ask me how my day was and I say "fine" that means it was normal, average, neither bad nor great. Perhaps a little more on the side of good than bad, but not good enough to say "good".

So, if a woman tells a man the sex is "fine"... well, that leaves room for improvement, doesn't it? No man wants to be told he is "adequate" or "OK" or "average" in bed. We want to be great, excellent, etc. We, well, I (I can't really speak for other men) don't want to be lied to, either, hence my next point.

I understand not every woman is going to have her "head to spin around like I was possessed" every time as you say, but if it were GOOD sex, wouldn't you/she say
"it was GOOD" rather than "it was FINE"?

Fine just sounds so mediocre.

Now... if it's a situation where for her (and you in your case) it will never or rarely be better than "fine" no matter what her partner does, and no previous partner has been able to do better than "fine" either, well, shouldn't her partner be allowed to have this information, so as to understand that maybe there isn't much else he or anyone else can do?

Or maybe fine does mean "fine" in the other definition, but I doubt it, since in that context in other situations such as the examples I gave, it doesn't generally mean that.

I will not ask my wife for the time being about her satisfaction.
Why do you have to be rated on your performance? You mentioned something earlier about women who are unsatisfied tend to stray. Is that a concern?

Why do you have to be rated on your performance? You mentioned something earlier about women who are unsatisfied tend to stray. Is that a concern?

For her, probably not.

I just don't like the thought that I'm mediocre and she's never going to attempt to allow me to get better. I'm not saying that I am. But the word "fine" doesn't conjure up images if a highly satisfied wife. "Good" might. "Great" might. "Fine" no.

Either she doesn't care because sex doesn't matter much, or she doesn't get much pleasure out of it with anyone at any time, or she is actually having an amazing time but just doesn't show her enthusiasm.

In most areas of life she is low key. She's not passionate or emotional much one way. I mean she is pleasant, has moods like anyone, and is a happy person, she's just not the "OH MY GOD I AM SO EXCITED" type for most things except sometimes vacations or fun trips, things for the kids, etc. She also is not the "OH MY GOD I AM SO PISSED" type if she is mad. She rarely yells in anger or shreiks in excitement.

In other words, she is mild-mannered. So, it might be this that is part of how she reacts during sex, she's enjoying herself just fine and that's just how she expresses it.

However, most women I know/know of who aren't all that into the sex itself, at least enjoy kissing, making out, the foreplay stuff. She just kind of lays there. She doesn't even seem to like kissing.

So either it's me, or, this is just how she is, but she's perfectly happy with it and me, and I need to just accept it. Accepting it is fine as long as I can be assured that it's not something she is secretly hoping I can improve.

As far as at least getting her more in the mood and receptive to sex and intimacy, I am going to the library today and trying your other ideas. :)

Do you know her ethnic heritage? What is yours?

Do you know her ethnic heritage? What is yours?

We're both White Americans of Italian/Irish and some German ancestry. Our ethnic backgrounds are smiliar but I have more Italian than she does.

We're both White Americans of Italian/Irish and some German ancestry. Our ethnic backgrounds are smiliar but I have more Italian than she does.

Why, by the way?

She has had issues with depression before.


What do you know about her issues with Depression? Do you know what caused them and what she did to get help? Did she get help? Is she on any medications?

My concern is that she may still be dealing with Depression. If everything is 'fine' to her and she doesn't show a much emotion, she may be putting a wall between herself and life. Many people suffering from Depression lead what others may see as 'normal' lives, but are they are going through the motions.

The problem may not be as simple as 'getting her in the mood'. She may need someone she can talk to who is professionally trained to listen and guide her through getting help.

What do you know about her issues with Depression? Do you know what caused them and what she did to get help? Did she get help? Is she on any medications?

My concern is that she may still be dealing with Depression. If everything is 'fine' to her and she doesn't show a much emotion, she may be putting a wall between herself and life. Many people suffering from Depression lead what others may see as 'normal' lives, but are they are going through the motions.

The problem may not be as simple as 'getting her in the mood'. She may need someone she can talk to who is professionally trained to listen and guide her through getting help.

She was on medication and therapy about 10 years ago and came out of it. I have told her that I'm concerned she might slip back in and she appreciates the concern, and says she worries too.

However, to a point she's been this way as long as I've known her. Even when sex was more frequent, she still was rather, let's say, "unenthusiastic" in bed. Part of that might well just be her personality.

What do you know about her issues with Depression? Do you know what caused them and what she did to get help? Did she get help? Is she on any medications?

My concern is that she may still be dealing with Depression. If everything is 'fine' to her and she doesn't show a much emotion, she may be putting a wall between herself and life. Many people suffering from Depression lead what others may see as 'normal' lives, but are they are going through the motions.

The problem may not be as simple as 'getting her in the mood'. She may need someone she can talk to who is professionally trained to listen and guide her through getting help.

If she does need meds again, at least I'll know why she has no libido... since those things kill whatever is left.

Again - I can deal with that. I want to make sure she is happy, healthy, and satisfied. :)

Why, by the way?
During my grad studies in psychology, I took a class that emphasized ethnic sensibilities and emotions. Groups that are from a Mediterranean ethnic heritage (Italian, Spanish, French, Greek, Northern African) tend to be more emotional, whereas people with a Northern European ethnic heritage tend to be more stolid and pragmatic. I'm 100% German and remember my recent ancestors and parents were quite emotionless and detached, as I tend to be, probably as learned characteristics as well as somewhere in my genes.

I don't remember ever raving about a kissing session with someone or being asked by him to rate it. If he had asked me to rate it, I would probably have taken that as a joke. The very fact that I continued to date him and allow him to kiss me seemed to me (and should have indicated to him) like he was pretty high up on my rating scale. Had he pressed me for a rating, I probably would have moved on, thinking he was needy. If he didn't rate well on my kissing scale, I didn't go out with him again.

During my grad studies in psychology, I took a class that emphasized ethnic sensibilities and emotions. Groups that are from a Mediterranean ethnic heritage (Italian, Spanish, French, Greek, Northern African) tend to be more emotional, whereas people with a Northern European ethnic heritage tend to be more stolid and pragmatic. I'm 100% German and remember my recent ancestors and parents were quite emotionless and detached, as I tend to be, probably as learned characteristics as well as somewhere in my genes.

I don't remember ever raving about a kissing session with someone or being asked by him to rate it. If he had asked me to rate it, I would probably have taken that as a joke. The very fact that I continued to date him and allow him to kiss me seemed to me (and should have indicated to him) like he was pretty high up on my rating scale. Had he pressed me for a rating, I probably would have moved on, thinking he was needy. If he didn't rate well on my kissing scale, I didn't go out with him again.

OK, I see what you're saying. When you kiss do you just kind of sit there and not really move your lips much, and back off after less than 20 seconds?

OK, I see what you're saying. When you kiss do you just kinda sit there and not really move your lips much, and back off after less than 20 seconds?

I wish there was an "edit" feature here. Anyway, that's what she does. There is no passion.

She does have more northern European and Central European in her blood than I do.

During my grad studies in psychology, I took a class that emphasized ethnic sensibilities and emotions. Groups that are from a Mediterranean ethnic heritage (Italian, Spanish, French, Greek, Northern African) tend to be more emotional, whereas people with a Northern European ethnic heritage tend to be more stolid and pragmatic. I'm 100% German and remember my recent ancestors and parents were quite emotionless and detached, as I tend to be, probably as learned characteristics as well as somewhere in my genes.

I don't remember ever raving about a kissing session with someone or being asked by him to rate it. If he had asked me to rate it, I would probably have taken that as a joke. The very fact that I continued to date him and allow him to kiss me seemed to me (and should have indicated to him) like he was pretty high up on my rating scale. Had he pressed me for a rating, I probably would have moved on, thinking he was needy. If he didn't rate well on my kissing scale, I didn't go out with him again.

OK, well let me ask more specifically. Did you at least think TO YOURSELF that the guy was good or bad at kissing?

She's with me after all this time, obviously I'm "good enough" to meet her standards in that area.

She was on medication and therapy about 10 years ago and came out of it. I have told her that I'm concerned she might slip back in and she appreciates the concern, and says she worries too.
That's another good reason to find a counselor -- counseling for your concerns about her satisfaction with you but also (a different counselor) for her as to how she is dealing with life.

OK, well let me ask more specifically. Did you at least think TO YOURSELF that the guy was good or bad at kissing?
I implied that when I said, "The very fact that I continued to date him and allow him to kiss me seemed to me (and should have indicated to him) like he was pretty high up on my rating scale."

She's with me after all this time, obviously I'm "good enough" to meet her standards in that area.
And is "good enough" good enough for you, or do you need to rock her world?

And is "good enough" good enough for you, or do you need to rock her world?

I'd like to rock her world, IF IT IS POSSIBLE. That is the question I want the answer to.

Why should I not want to rock her world? Is mediocrity somehow a sexy and desirable trait nowadays?

I implied that when I said, "The very fact that I continued to date him and allow him to kiss me seemed to me (and should have indicated to him) like he was pretty high up on my rating scale."

Well, I have a few comments about that.

1. If she seemed to participate herself (move her lips, her body, respond to what I'm doing) I'd feel less need to ask her to tell me how it was. I assume you were reciprocal enough that the guy at least got the impression you enjoyed kissing him.

2. I've been lied to in the past by other women, who spent time telling me everything was "fine" then eventually, I found out from her friend she was afraid to tell me the truth. Then we broke up. Had I known, I could have tried to fix the problem.

I implied that when I said, "The very fact that I continued to date him and allow him to kiss me seemed to me (and should have indicated to him) like he was pretty high up on my rating scale."

I know a LOT of people that just don't want to be alone, and put up with lousy kissing/sex/etc.

That's the reason for all this! Of course it could be mostly MY issues with self-esteem, but still. I have trouble believing someone who puts so little effort into making love and other intimate endeavors can possibly enjoy what she is doing or having done to her, unless she is just doing it as her "wifely duty" and really only wants the companionship, father to her kids, etc and couldn't care less about the physical part.

Wondergirl, you probably have no way of knowing, but is it more likely in your opinion that she:

A. Has had better sex with others but loves me so she puts up with it
B. Is having as good of sex as she ever can have or at least as good as she ever has

I know a LOT of people that just don't want to be alone, and put up with lousy kissing/sex/etc.
Or maybe having to continually rate a spouse's performance becomes wearing and puts one off the entire process.

Wondergirl, you probably have no way of knowing, but is it more likely in your opinion that she:

A. Has had better sex with others but loves me so she puts up with it
B. Is having as good of sex as she ever can have or at least as good as she ever has
What kind of work do you do? Do you feel this way about your performance there?

Or maybe having to continually rate a spouse's performance becomes wearing and puts one off the entire process.

I haven't asked her "how was it" in a LONG time.

However, it was only about 4 sex sessions ago since that's about how much we've done it in the last 8 months.

I don't get it. If I am selfish and don't attempt to make things good for her, I'm a selfish jerk. If I do care, I annoy her and she is disinterested. It's like I can't win no matter what.
It basically sounds like you're telling me to be attentive and take care of her outside the bedroom and learn how her mind works, BUT, act as if I couldn't care less in the bedroom whether she enjoys herself, outside of just doing things the same way we always do.

On THIS VERY BOARD there are other posters with similar problems, being told their wives are probably not satisfied, and that they are just hopping on her and hopping off, and no wonder she doesn't want sex. My situation is that I want to do more but she doesn't seem interested in that!

Most situations like this reveal that the husband is inattentive outside the bedroom. Hence me trying your suggestions although I think I do better already than some guys do.

I seem to have trouble balancing the idea that men should be confident and self-assured with the idea of being sensitive to my wife's needs and feelings both inside the bedroom and out.

What kind of work do you do? Do you feel this way about your performance there?

No, because I get paid commission (plus a base). My paycheck reflects how I do. :)

To protect my identity, I won't give more detail, but it's finance oriented.

I haven't asked her "how was it" in a LONG time.

Maybe you already overplayed your hand in the past. Again, counseling for you and eventually for both of you might give you the solution.

No, because I get paid commission (plus a base). My paycheck reflects how I do. :)
So your job and your very livelihood and success are based on your good performance.

What kind of work do you do? Do you feel this way about your performance there?

It really sounds like you're just telling me to stop caring how it is for her and to take her word for it.

Do you have an opinion on my analysis of the word "fine" being used to describe how our sex life is for her?

She always says FINE. Never "good" or anything.

So your job and your very livelihood and success are based on your good performance.

Yes. And?

It really sounds like you're just telling me to stop caring how it is for her and to take her word for it.
Stop caring? Not at all. I asked you to find a counselor, but you indicated you don't have time for one. I asked you to read a book, but don't know if you called your library yet to find out if they own it and can hold it for you to pick up. I suggested you take a two-week break and concentrate on other parts of your relationship, but no report yet.

Yes. And?
Performance is very important to you.

Stop caring? Not at all. I asked you to find a counselor, but you indicated you don't have time for one. I asked you to read a book, but don't know if you called your library yet to find out if they own it and can hold it for you to pick up. I suggested you take a two-week break and concentrate on other parts of your relationship, but no report yet.

They have it and its on hold. I told you I was taking your advice. :)

Performance is very important to you.

Yeah it is. But don't most jobs require you to perform well? It just seemed like an odd question.

OK, to keep this from becoming 100 pages long and annoying you further than I already have, I'll try to consolidate my last few points for the day:

As far as me asking her how it was, a quick background on that - early in the relationship I apologized for climaxing so fast. She said "it's fine, really." For THAT question, "fine" is a reasonable answer, since it means "I'm not mad but sure, longer would be better".

Then, I said "well just making sure you're enjoying it as much as me" and she said "oh, it's fine, honey". She's only ever said "fine". That's why I have issue with the word. Maybe I have a hang-up on that word. I just know when it's used in this context it doesn't mean fine as in "fine dining" or "fine art". It means "acceptable" or "mediocre" or "not bad enough to complain about but not great either".

I'll have the book tonight. I do want to try counseling, but I still don't know when this counseling is supposed to happen. I cannot get time off during the day from work, it's just not feasible on a dependable basis. Childcare requirements and the schedules of my wife and I mean before/after work isn't going to cut it, either. I don't get off work until 7pm. How can I explain to her that I'm asking for a night off every week when SHE is far more stressed than I am, no matter what I help with around the house, since she is MOM and the baby is all about Mommy all the time, and sometimes she is the only one that can soothe him, etc. If I offer her one too, that helps some, but, I guess I can't justify within myself that I need it too. I KNOW she's more stressed than me! If I just straight tell her I'm seeing a relationship counselor, what's she going to think?

Yeah it is. But don't most jobs require you to perform well? It just seemed like an odd question.
But in your job, how well you perform is vital to your income. As a librarian, I was lucky to get a raise once a year, and for the last five years before I retired, none of us got one because of the economy. There were no merit increases. As a counselor, my pay is not determined by my performance, and I don't ask clients, "How am I doing?" I find out my worth in how they relate to me and how they conduct their lives.

There's an excuse for every suggestion. WG, 100 posts and no resolution.

Time to close?

There's an excuse for every suggestion. WG, 100 posts and no resolution.

Time to close?
He's going to read a book and report what he thinks of it. New thread then?

Judy, you were helpful then started being pretty nasty to me. I am trying to be a good husband here.

Wondergirl, you're living up to your name, however. :)

Close the thread, but can I please get an answer to one more question?

My concerns about the word "fine" can someone address that?

Thanks.

He's going to read a book and report what he thinks of it. New thread then?

Yup. Sounds good.

Wondergirl, you're living up to your name, however. :)
Actually, I called myself that when I registered for this site because in Libraryland and in counseling I wonder a lot about people and situations and stuff. Since 1998 when I joined my first web site and community, I've always been CeeBee which I wish I could change my name to here.

My concerns about the word "fine" can someone address that?
If your wife made chocolate chip cookies and you ate several still warm from the oven, with gooey, melty chocolate, and told her they are "fine," what would she think?

Actually, I called myself that when I registered for this site because in Libraryland and in counseling I wonder a lot about people and situations and stuff. Since 1998 when I joined my first web site and community, I've always been CeeBee which I wish I could change my name to here.

If your wife made chocolate chip cookies and you ate several still warm from the oven, with gooey, melty chocolate, and told her they are "fine," what would she think?

I wouldn't say they were fine. I'd say they were good. That's kind of my point.

I'd say "fine" if they were average and I think she'd know that they were acceptable but not great.

If your wife made chocolate chip cookies and you ate several still warm from the oven, with gooey, melty chocolate, and told her they are "fine," what would she think?

Hit "enter" too soon. I did in fact do that. We were making Christmas cookies and they got a little burned. She knew they were a little burned.

I said "they're a bit burned but fine." That did not mean the same thing as if I'd have said they were great or good.

Close the thread, but can I please get an answer to one more question?

My concerns about the word "fine" can someone address that??

Thanks.

Here you go...

"Fine"
This is the word women use to end an argument when they are right and you need to shut up.

[This is just for fun... or is it.]

http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/what-woman-says-and-what-she-really-means

Here you go...

"Fine"
This is the word women use to end an argument when they are right and you need to shut up.

[This is just for fun...or is it.]

What a Woman Says... and What She Really Means | NowPublic News Coverage (http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/what-woman-says-and-what-she-really-means)

Although you're using humor, you kind of get my point!!

Hit "enter" too soon. I did in fact do that. We were making Christmas cookies and they got a little burned. She knew they were a little burned.

I said "they're a bit burned but fine." That did not mean the same thing as if I'd have said they were great or good.

You know though, maybe the reason I think this is that I have a more expressive, enthusiastic personality than she does. Not a bad or good thing, just a difference between us.

What people really mean when they say they are “FINE” (http://alanwho.com/fyi/what-people-really-mean-when-they-say-they-are-fine/)

Illustrates what my concern is.

Judy, you were helpful then started being pretty nasty to me. I am trying to be a good husband here.

Wondergirl, you're living up to your name, however. :)

Close the thread, but can I please get an answer to one more question?

My concerns about the word "fine" can someone address that??

Thanks.


I'm not being "pretty nasty." You post on a public board you get all sorts of opinions and answers.

By the way - I'm an investigator. I have great "spidey senses." Someone came to me with your story and I know exactly how I'd proceed.

But that's for another thread.

I'm not being "pretty nasty." You post on a public board you get all sorts of opinions and answers.

By the way - I'm an investigator. I have great "spidey senses." Someone came to me with your story and I know exactly how I'd proceed.

But that's for another thread.

You mean you think I'm lying or making stuff up? Believe me, I'm not.

I'm not being "pretty nasty." You post on a public board you get all sorts of opinions and answers.

By the way - I'm an investigator. I have great "spidey senses." Someone came to me with your story and I know exactly how I'd proceed.

But that's for another thread.

I'm not getting that. You said sit down and talk (over coffee was how you said you do it) and then not to ask her "how it was" since I do it too much.

I get that. I'm not sure why you think I 'get a thrill' out of posting stuff. I am trying to answer questions.

What do you mean by how you'd proceed? As the husband, or the wife?

You know though, maybe the reason I think this is that I have a more expressive, enthusiastic personality than she does. Not a bad or good thing, just a difference between us.
Maybe it's the Italian in you coming out. ;)

What people really mean when they say they are “FINE” (http://alanwho.com/fyi/what-people-really-mean-when-they-say-they-are-fine/)

Illustrates what my concern is.

Well I see what you think about your wife when she says, "Fine"

F.I.N.E.

Freaked Out!

Insecure!

Neurotic

Emotional

Maybe this is YOU... just say'n

I'm closing this thread -- too much chat and no problems being solved (yet) after 11 pages.