I have been living in a house for 12 years without a lease or rental agreement. The landlord passed away three years ago. There is no will that I am aware of and the house was verbally given to me and my husband by the deceased. The son is now telling me with no written documents that I have to be out of my home in 3 months. The house is only in the deceased name and probate has not even been started. I have been upgrading the house since I moved in. What are my rights.

Verbal ownership will be hard to prove in court. Your best option at this point would be to take your situation to a local attorney who handles this sort of thing - to get his advice on whether it is worth pursuing or not.

Who has been paying the property taxes?

Who has been paying the property taxes?

I have been paying the taxes on the house but, they have not been in my name they were paid in the deceased name. The house almost went up for auction since they didn't pay them on time last year and would not let me go to tax collector and pay them this year

Who pays the property taxes will probably not be a significant point of your claim that the previous owner gave you the house verbally. Since you have been given a notice to vacate, then you should get an attorney's advice right away - so that you can weigh your options of how and if to proceed with your claim that the house is yours.

You have no rights what so ever, in fact he is being great by giving you 3 months, he only has to give you 30 days.

You are a renter and I hope you have been paying rent to the son, or he can even sue you for all of the unpaid rent ( though the estate)

Also if you have been paying the taxes you are just paying "HIS" taxes, you would have been better off not paying the taxes and letting it sell for taxes and buy it that way.

If this is in the United states there is no verbal agreement since any real estate contact for sale by law has to be in writing.

So you need to start planning on moving.

There are two sides to every story. If you can show good evidence that there was a verbal agreement, then your living there for 3 years without paying rent MIGHT be evidence to that verbal agreement.

In the US it is not uncommon that a "verbal agreement" is held as valid IF proof or good evidence can be shown that there WAS a verbal agreement that can be viewed as binding.

Either way, it's up to you as to how to proceed. Getting legal advice would be your best first step.

There is no written agreement or lease. I live in the state of Florida, they had 3 years to discuss with me writing up an renters agreement. The house is still in the deceased name and has not been changed or tried to change. Per the tax office they do not have the right to ask me to leave with out legal documentation. There is not even a will and the widow has told me the house would go to me rather than the son, since I am like family and the son was off in jail.

There are two sides to every story. If you can show good evidence that there was a verbal agreement, then your living there for 3 years without paying rent MIGHT be evidence to that verbal agreement.

In the US it is not uncommon that a "verbal agreement" is held as valid IF proof or good evidence can be shown that there WAS a verbal agreement that can be viewed as binding.

Either way, it's up to you as to how to proceed. Getting legal advice would be your best first step.

Thank you

There is no written agreement or lease. I live in the state of Florida, they had 3 years to discuss with me writing up an renters agreement. The house is still in the deceased name and has not been changed or tried to change. Per the tax office they do not have the right to ask me to leave with out legal documentation. There is not even a will and the widow has told me the house would go to me rather than the son, since I am like family and the son was off in jail.

So you have not paid rent to anyone in the past 3 years?

So you have not paid rent to anyone in the past 3 years?

Yes I have

Yes I have

Why have you paid rent on a house that you say was given to you?

Why have you paid rent on a house that you say was given to you?

The widow was getting rent until she got the house in her name. On the down side it was paid in cash or direct deposit into her account.

There is no written agreement or lease. I live in the state of Florida, they had 3 years to discuss with me writing up an renters agreement. The house is still in the deceased name and has not been changed or tried to change. Per the tax office they do not have the right to ask me to leave with out legal documentation. There is not even a will and the widow has told me the house would go to me rather than the son, since I am like family and the son was off in jail.

In Florida, you can't claim adverse possession without color of title unless you can prove that you paid the taxes for at least the past year, and did other specific things, property tax-wise.

You claim that you paid the taxes, but "... The house almost went up for auction since they didnt pay them on time last year and would not let me go to tax collector and pay them this year ..." You suggest that you are renting the property. Sorry, but your story has just too many holes in it.

The fact that there is no will doesn't make any difference. You have no claim under the intestacy statute because you are not family.

Plan on moving. However your late landlord's son, or someone, will have to be appointed personal representative before he or she can sue you for eviction.

There is not even a will and the widow has told me the house would go to me rather than the son, since I am like family and the son was off in jail.

Whoa! You didn't think that was a key piece of information? That changes the whole situation.

You need to immediately get the widow to sign an affidavits (have it notarized) that she was aware that her husband had decided you should have the house.

If there was no will then the son is entitled to approx 1/2 the estate. But to get that, the estate has to be submitted to probate and the executor has to transfer ownership to the heirs. When the estate goes to probate, then you submit a claim to the house so its not part of the estate. You use the widow's affidavit to prove your claim.

In the meantime, you tell the son that he has no legal right to tell you to vacate. If he wants you out then he will have to take you to court and you believe you can prove that you were given ownership.

Once you get the affadavits, you can even try, getting the property title changed to your name. Also file a lis pendens against the property to prevent title from being changed without notifying you.

You would be best served by getting an attorney to do all these things for you. But if you can get the widow to testify, you should get awarded the property.

In Florida, you can't claim adverse possession without color of title unless you can prove that you paid the taxes for at least the past year, and did other specific things, property tax-wise.

You claim that you paid the taxes, but "... The house almost went up for auction since they didnt pay them on time last year and would not let me go to tax collector and pay them this year ..." You suggest that you are renting the property. Sorry, but your story has just too many holes in it.

The fact that there is no will doesn't make any difference. You have no claim under the intestacy statute because you are not family.

Plan on moving. However your late landlord's son will have to be appointed personal representative before he can sue you for eviction.

The lawyer's advice trumps mine for sure.

Shoper, sounds like you should plan on moving... OR get a local attorney's advice if you want to fight it.

i have been paying the taxes on the house but, they have not been in my name they were paid in the deceased name. The house almost went up for auction since they didnt pay them on time last year and would not let me go to tax collector and pay them this year


"AK" and I noticed the same thing - you have been paying the taxes but "they" didn't pay them on time last year? You either have been paying the taxes OR you have not.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this - it's been that kind of day. The owner of the house died. His wife/widow did not.

Why doesn't she just title the house over to you? Didn't she inherit it upon his death?

Was it held in joint names - his and hers? Only his?

I'm having difficult with this scenario, just a sense of something.

Why doesn't she just title the house over to you? Didn't she inherit it upon his death?

Was it held in joint names - his and hers? Only his?



Another key point the OP left out. My assumption was it was in his name only and since there was no will the son would be entitled to a share of the estate, AFTER probate.

I just saw this:

The widow was getting rent until she got the house in her name. On the down side it was paid in cash or direct deposit into her account.

How did the house get transferred into the widow's name? Did THEY own as joint tenants with right of survivorship? If there was no will then the property could not be transferred until the estate was probated. If the widow does own it, the son has no legal standing. If the widow does own it, then she can just deed it to you ending the son's involvement.

Shoper, There are a lot of holes and inconsistency in your story. This makes it very difficult for us to help you. I suggest you sit down and write down the real facts and then present them so we can advise.

So can you tell us why you think the estate has not gone to probate after 3 years? I would think that you or the widow would start the process. I sense we still need more facts, can you provide more information? Maybe I missed your answer but why would you pay rent if you thought you owned the property?

Good catch, Scott - I missed that one!

Spidey senses tingling. I think someone is trying to accomplish something - the easy answer, of course, is to have the widow simply deed it over to the OP.

Of course, that would make sense.

In Florida, you can't claim adverse possession without color of title unless you can prove that you paid the taxes for at least the past year, and did other specific things, property tax-wise.

You claim that you paid the taxes, but "... The house almost went up for auction since they didnt pay them on time last year and would not let me go to tax collector and pay them this year ..." You suggest that you are renting the property. Sorry, but your story has just too many holes in it.

The fact that there is no will doesn't make any difference. You have no claim under the intestacy statute because you are not family.

Plan on moving. However your late landlord's son, or someone, will have to be appointed personal representative before he or she can sue you for eviction.

The landlord was like my uncle, and no one can be the representative due to the fact they are all felons. House is not in probate yet and they are unable to put it into probate due to no one can be there executor due to law issues. The wife (widow) has partial ownership of house and does not want the son to have it. She wanted me to take her to have the name changed on it. Is that possible?

... and no one can be the representative due to the fact they are all felons.. . [QUOTE]
Someone who qualifies to be a P.R. can be found: distant relative, family friend, whatever.

And they need to hire an attorney in any event. The Florida Probate Code requires that it be done by an attorney.

[QUOTE=shoper72;3100018]... The wife (widow) has partial ownership of house and does not want the son to have it. She wanted me to take her to have the name changed on it. Is that possible?
Sure, she can give her interest to you.

The landlord was like my uncle, and no one can be the representative due to the fact they are all felons. House is not in probate yet and they are unable to put it into probate due to no one can be there executor due to law issues. The wife (widow) has partial ownership of house and does not want the son to have it. She wanted me to take her to have the name changed on it. Is that possible?

I asked you to try an relate all the facts to plug the holes and inconsistencies in your story. I understand that you probably don't understand a lot of what has gone on and that's what we are here for. But we can't help without the facts.

Now you are saying the widow has PARTIAL ownership. Earlier you said:


The widow was getting rent until she got the house in her name.

How do you expect us to be able to give you good advice when you keep changing the facts? And don't get me wrong. I don't think you are changing things purposely to confuse us, but rather out of a lack of understanding. But we need the facts.

As pointed out, FL law requires an attorney to handle probate, that means the attorney can be assigned as the executor, if all the relatives are exempted because of criminal records.

The widow can transfer HER share to you, but not the husbands, if she did not get the house under right of survivorship.

If you aren't going to give us the facts, then get an attorney to get this mess straightened out.

At least the widow is alive. That's a relief, even if it doesn't get you the whole house in the end. What's not a relief are all the children who aren't going to be happy about this, so that's another reason why you MUST hire a lawyer, regardless of how much you are going to have to pay for one.

... you MUST hire a lawyer, regardless of how much you are going to have to pay for one.

I'm wondering what a lawyer could accomplish for OP, whatever the price.

There are a few things, I guess:


Getting a properly executed deed from the widow to her interest in the property (assuming she is still willing to give one)

Getting specific advice on how to perfect an adverse possession claim, as I mentioned earlier.

I flat out don't believe any of this - there, I said it.

Too many twists and turns and inconsistencies. Someone is attempting to scam someone. After that it's all a blur.

I made a similar comment days ago but it was quickly taken down. Someone may have not like the sarcasstic tone I used but I still smell something. This story keeps changing and I can't keep up with the trolling facts. There, I said it. Lets see if it stays this time. BTW, I have been told be Cliff, RIP, and Ray that if our posts are deleted or change it would be explained to us. That has never happened

In my State - NY - if there is no one "eligible" or "capable" of being the Executor the Court appoints one. No Estate stays open forever because everyone in the family is a felon.

In my State - NY - if there is no one "eligible" or "capable" of being the Executor the Court appoints one. No Estate stays open forever because everyone in the family is a felon.

But, I suspect, someone still has to tell the court about the situation.

In this situation, it appears, the estate isn't "open forever". It was not opened in the first place. And it might stay that way for years.

That's what happens when a judicial system is so disjointed from reality. Strangely, it appears to me that the prohibition against pro se representation in probate has, in many cases, put probate out of reach. The effective result is that families without the financial incentive to hire a lawyer simpy sit on the situation for generations without any legal closure. If the real estate is in the family, and someone pays the taxes, there is no need to get title straightened out.

And the compexity tends to snowball. A man dies leaving a home in his name, widow and children. At that point it should be easy for her to go to a hypothetical probate court and fill out a form, maybe publish a notice to creditors, and get the creditors claims decided and clear title to the wife &/ or children.

But no. She has to hire a lawyer, who is required to make the whole thing unbelievably complicated. So, instead, she does nothing.

She grows old and dies. One of the children continues living in the home, raising his own family. The other children wandered off somewhere and they loose track of each other. The children of the stay-at-home child, when he dies, squabble over who gets what. At that point, things have gotten so complicated that it really does require the services of a lawyer in order to untangle the mess. :(

I agree - when I said the estate remains "open" I should have said "unsettled" - nothing is filed or it's filed and sits or something in between (in my State). "Here" someone approaches the Court and the Surrogate Judge appoints an Executor, often an Attorney.

I found the probate system to be, at best, cumbersome (unnecessarily so), required an Attorney, was quite costly - everything I didn't need at that point in my life.

I know people who were told they had a second chance on a house they had been outbid on. Turns out probate had not been done after hubby died, and wife lived on for years and then died, happens all the time. Their lawyer said 'give me $300 for the judge (this was about 25 years ago in MA) and I'll get it done in 2 weeks.'
Nice house, nice suburb, nice everybody, no sleazy characters involved.
Tell me this doesn't happen everywhere.

... no sleazy characters involved.
...

-Except for the judge, evidently. :(


...
Tell me this doesn't happen everywhere.

I wouldn't know, so I can't tell you that.